Modern Shonen Has No Character Depth

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#shounen #shonen #anime #animereview #animeanalysis #jjk #jujutsukaisen #chainsawman #demonslayer #vinlandsaga #fullmetalalchemist #fullmetalalchemistbrotherhood #fmab #gojosatoru #gojo

[@ryanphung320]

If you’re looking for characters to attach yourself to I can see why you came to this conclusion. The characters aren’t deep in a personal or relatable way. I can’t relate to Gojo or Geto. But that doesn’t mean the character depth isn’t there. Yuji for example was told at the start to die with his loved ones around him. As the story goes on he starts to lose people left and right. We see him struggle with this then move forward without much time put into grieving. The question for me is “Will Yuji die surrounded by loved ones or will he die alone?”. His character arc isn’t narrated and there’s no episode dedicated to him sorting his feelings. But there’s layers there and his story is interconnected with many other characters to work towards the eventual conclusion of this arc. The beauty is that it’s subtle and, more importantly, connected to so many other facets of the story. That’s where the depth is, lingering in the background ready to reveal itself when we least expect it.

[@cilindras2952]

Yeaaah, but personally I feel that JJK has made more than enough character development for what it is - a battle shonen. You are given clear motivations, values and aspirations of each character add a little style or differing charisma and a cool ability and you get what I would call a very balanced fight anime. The characters in jjk aren't NGE type of deep, but it was enough for me to actual get invested and care about the characters that I relate to. I think Geto and Toji were very well writen characters, even though the latter didn't have as much screentime.

[@bloopworm]

Tbh I can't disagree with that. Jjk has done well for a typical battle shonen. Probably I just have higher expectations because its popularity rivals the likes of aot and hxh.

[@cilindras2952]

@@bloopworm It is only reaching hxh and aot numbers because of the simple fact that the viewer base has grown - anime has become even more globaly mainstream

[@bloopworm]

@@cilindras2952 AoT S1 goes against that logic. I don't think it ever reached that level of popularity again in the future. S4 was somewhat close maybe. But S1 didn't explore the characters deeply so ig it's fair to jjk S1.

[@AM17titan]

@@bloopworm jjk never goes deeply even if you follow the manga

[@bloopworm]

@@AM17titan so I think that proves my point further 🤔

[@xanidydexidy]

Uhm actually Vinland saga is an new adaptation of a old manga, and season 2 is seinin not shonen 🤓

[@bloopworm]

in my defence i have no enemies

[@lalboimanlun1230]

😂​@@bloopworm

[@ShadowProject01]

@@bloopwormthis went harder than I was expecting 😂

[@Musashi1611]

🤓🤓🤓

[@bokiealfonso1004]

Modernization of many anime shonen has been some-what blank copy paste of some popular stories, some would be bad and some are good because they are the top trope of the trend. After watching the video I'm glad that this has been called out that character development needs to be more worked on like Vinland Saga to add taste & something in the stories to complete it with mindless action scenes for younger viewers to watch 😄 haha

[@snin3202]

I feel like modern shonen are just care about gore and being that kind of edgy

[@kirumakorosuke4203]

Atleast stuff like JJK

[@Rdc_Dom]

Just goes to show you don't really understand what you're watching/reading

[@kirumakorosuke4203]

@@Rdc_Dom not really thats all there is to it. ofcourse a bleach meatrider wont understnad

[@Rdc_Dom]

@@kirumakorosuke4203 I doubt you have any idea of what character work is when you can't spell *won't or *understand properly. You're probably just watching blindly with no analysation of the series' you're trying to interpret.

[@kirumakorosuke4203]

@@Rdc_Dom Bro's comback is "Uhm AcTuallY you made a minor spelling mistake" 🤓

[@xenocromium]

This editing is literally 10/10

[@timezone7937]

I rushed to hit the pause button when you mentioned vingland saga I haven't watched it yet and am planning to watch it when I am free

[@bloopworm]

yep definitely give it a try soon

[@Justaguy0111]

One thing about Vinland i hated is the part where Askeladd is clearly talking to Canute arrving at a port. Askeladd says something threatening to Canute, and then he gets assainated. Only that wasn't Canute it was a woman, even though Askeladd was clearly talking to Canute beforehand. It's a cheap shock and downplays shocks later on.

[@ayushsrivastava489]

For jjk i think it's kinda true i just finished anime yesterday yuji,gojo back story are quite shallow for demon slayer tanjiro back story is like in equal amount plus comedy makes for it's lack jjk need to work on its fight scenes comparing these to dragon ball, dragon ball wins

[@bloopworm]

Yep I think modern anime like dororo and vinland saga have done the plot building aspect quite well

[@w.h.o3161]

Jjk action scenes are great tho?

[@bloopworm]

@@w.h.o3161 I think he might not have liked the direction of S2 fights. The animation imo was great.

[@degen7278]

I actually disagree heavily with the notion that Jujutsu Kaisen's characters dont have depth or aren't intriguing. The characters feel really fleshed out with that series and have captivating development all throughout. Such as Gojo's isolation due to his prowess or Nanami's greif from losing people as a sorcerer and his reluctance to continue for the youth, etc. Rika is a standout due to her subversion with aspects of her character and her impact on Yuta. Its the thematic nature and charcters of JJK that actually make me believe its a modern classic.

[@LingeringSoul-yk6de]

They aren't ,they just have flat and simple backstory like everyone and a little depth (which almost every character with screen time will have)

[@bloopworm]

@degen7278 I can understand your point of view. But to me most development felt one dimensional. Though the moment of geto going rogue felt earned and showed great character depth. I had a heavy debate on this in another comment so you can check that out.

[@hiphip7838]

​@@bloopwormI think you might need to try and go on deeper dives on characters in anime, I don't agree with this at all. Try and look through videos of good animes and look for an analysis on a character you like. You'll see so much that you might not have picked up on. Lore is good, very good in fact. But that doesn't mean the lore isn't taking the spot light over characters. Characters are the ones making the lore after all, lore and character depth are interconnected. If you don't have good character depth, the lore will feel more shallow. And plus, character depth in itself is lore. Jujutsu kaisen is a great example, look in depth on toji, megumi, hell, even the main character yuji has insane character and depth and plays on the idea of those main characters who try their best to save people.

[@bloopworm]

​​@@hiphip7838At the end It's all about the comparison of one anime to another. You might feel jujutsu kaisen has good character depth but when I compare it with other anime like AoT, HxH or Vinland Saga I just can't see it to be at that level. For a fair comparison I will have to watch countless character analysis on each character from every popular shonen anime. Also I did a full discussion on this under a comment by "anetery". Feel free to check that out.

[@kirumakorosuke4203]

Me when I spread mis information on the internet, lil bro JJK does NOT have good character writing lmao

[@IM_VARN]

This is A First time at your channel, so... I'll just ask one thing for now, What do You Think About AOT (attack on titan) ? I just like hear people's opinion on My Favorite Anime of all time.

[@bloopworm]

AOT is definitely my most fav anime. To this date I listen to hiroyuki sawano's soundtracks. The season 1 came around the time of hxh reboot hence I didn't consider it to be 2020s anime. Anyway I think it explores the human side of things very well. For example :- Reiner's double personality disorder in s2 and the dynamic of zeke with grisha. It has good character depth for sure.

[@kartikaypant1393]

Also aki got one of the best conclusion in shonen, so gotta disagree here

[@Skibidi_peter]

Thank god someone said this. I thiught i was the only one

[@iztizio1328]

The irony here is that making a characters feelings more subtle, deep, and interpretive allows many different kind of readers to relate to that character. This makes is harder to be engaged in the story unless you stop and think about the characters and who they actually are. You want character depth, but don't want to work for it.

[@bloopworm]

If that's the case then Vinland saga is the worst pick but yet the whole build up in the video was done for that moment. S2 of that anime doesn't have any flashy action like a typical shonen but still there was a huge audience which gave it a go and sticked to it. So I don't really agree with your "don't want to work for it" part.

[@iztizio1328]

@@bloopworm What does Vinland saga have to do with this? You don't understand what I am trying to explain.

[@yvngtyreeofficial]

Chainsaw man actually got my attached to characters. You’re just talking about season 1 of the anime. (I’d hate to b one of those ppl but... read the manga)😂😅

[@skylarduckky3389]

funfact: hidden inventory arc would not exist by your logic

[@sodathejunker]

I think good points are being made, but I can’t for the life of me figure out why JJK is being lumped in here. If anything JJK has a ton of value because it feels more like series from the 2000s I also think that people get comfy with battle shounen, but there are a ton of other series and genres that still do a great job exploring characters and their personalities/interactions. You’re not as commonly going to find that in the larger popular shounen because as much as we love it, not every show in that genre has that with the goal and excels in that kind of writing.

[@bloopworm]

I can understand what you mean. When JJK is compared to something like demon slayer then I can definitely say jujutsu kaisen has better character depth. And yea compared to something like one piece or bleach I can see where you are coming from. Moving on, I felt that most of the character development in JJK felt one dimensional. I think it has been always about fighting curses because they are "evil". [SPOILERS AHEAD] If we take something like Vinland saga, AoT or HxH you will notice how the characters change deeply inside. Eren going from showing hatred against all the titans to becoming the thing he wanted to destroy. Thorfinn totally doing 360 on what he was back in s1 and it didn't feel forced. Also in jjk the gojo arc portrayed the change of geto in a good way and I did like it. Other than that I can't really point out moments which made me feel the same way.

[@purplebeast8353]

​@@bloopworm I cannot for the life of my understand why in the context of depth and development people ignore yujis devolpment it may not be on the same league as other non shonen anime but I think it's genuinely great

[@kirumakorosuke4203]

No JJK is literally the perfect example of this, it doesn't actually have any character depth. other than hidden inventory, not a single arc in JJk prioratizes character exploration. Its literally what this video is about. JJKs gives the illusion of depth and complexity without actually having any

[@blackban4689]

​@@kirumakorosuke4203 The thing about jjk is that it is an anime that focuses mainly on the Jujutsu sorcerers, and not the people that are the sorcerers (stay with me now) The entirety of jjk focuses on characters carrying out their jujutsu duties. The work of a Jujutsu sorcerer is very important, because curses are very dangerous, and there aren't many sorcerers. The characters don't have much time outside their job to do other things, so the anime or manga doesn't show it(not to mention the fact that they are currently in one of the most eventful periods in jujutsu history, with Kenjaku's activities and the revival of Sukuna). These teenagers and adults therefore grow into their shells as jujutsu sorcerers, their personalities being affected by the world of Jujutsu, twisted, corrupt and full of killing and death. Fushiguro for example, has been constantly memed on for always trying to summon Mahoraga for the smallest things, but that just shows his personality and how he acts toward his job. When faced with a challenge he can't handle, he's prepared to sacrifice his life to defeat the threat which could harm others. Yuji started out as someone who wanted to have a "meaningful death" by at least dying in the line of duty fighting curses, but his worldview changed once he saw how twisted the Jujutsu world is, and how truly terrifying curses can be. Not to mention that once Sukuna mass murdered all those people in Shibuya, he didn't decide to "give up" and curl into a ball, even though he knew that if he died when he swallowed the finger, none of that would have happened. Nanami was a simple, uptight, by the book man who just wanted to live a simple life. Yet he had to take on the role of a sorcerer, because he knew that was where he would serve a better purpose. Kugisaki was the least affected by her life as a sorcerer, because unlike Megumi who only knew sorcery, or Yuji who tried to find meaning in it, she already had her life figured out. Straight forward, no nonsense, have fun. People dying left and right isn't a flaw in the series. It jujutsu, people have been dying since before Sukuna was born, they aren't special. The only thing they can do is move on and keep fighting this naturally occurring evil called curses, and the evil people who bear Jujutsu. Sorry for the long post, here's a potato 🥔

[@Thatechoissoannoying]

I feel like jjk is either gege being really lazy, and the viewers take it as skill, or they’re making it more reality based. We don’t get to fully fledge out characters, because we aren’t these characters, and in real life, there are time where we may never be able to see the true person that characters are. We may be able to see a glimpse of who people are, but overall, we won’t really get to see them to their fullest. Like… let’s say… yuki tsukumo. Yuki is a character that feels fully fledged out, but we really only get to see one side of her, most of the time, but sometimes, we see glimpses of things that could be there(like how yuki talked to choso when choso was feeling conflicted, I wasn’t paying attention in that chapter, tbh, but I got the point, and either way, you see much more examples in the show anyway). On the opposite end, we have yuji. we get to see all sides of yuji, since he’s the mc, we see that he bottles up his true emotions until he can’t anymore, then has these short bursts of rage and anger, then goes back to bottling it up again. We get to see what he truly feels sometimes, like on his first mission when he almost dies, that we don’t get to see at first, because yuji didn’t really get what he felt at first.

[@Weeb-Knight]

thats it? i was expecting for you to go more in depth on why you believe that.

[@omarishaque4342]

Hey I disagree but I subbed for your independent thinking. Hope to see more from you.

[@Ethix-da707]

I think jjk main problem is pacing. Gege wants to finish jjk quickly leads to many underdeveloped characters.well I think he could write good characters like toji and geto but don't want to be involved in just one manga for long period of time.

[@orpheemulemo8053]

Nah I agree with your point but putting black clover on their no way

[@bloopworm]

It was added in the edit on the basis of initial episodes. Hence, didn't focus on it in the video. I will take that back if overall it's good in terms of character depth 👍

[@Rdc_Dom]

I disagree wholeheartedly. I can't speak for ALL modern shonen but i feel like you're writing them off a little too soon without really understanding them. I think JJK, and My Hero in particular have fantastic character especially with the villains like Geto, Toji, Sukuna, shigaraki, and Stain. Hell even Endeavor to a certain degree.

[@kartikaypant1393]

chainsaw man, choujin x, dandadan, hells paradise, undead unluckand many more have character depth and all these have more character depth than big 3. Most of the new shonen doesnt have charcter depth but also old shonewere pretty reptetive and long streched .

[@bloopworm]

Yea I agree that the old shonen was long stretched. I think the meaning of "character depth" has changed over time. Earlier it was more about the character's willpower & bonding between other characters. Now it focuses more on the psychological aspect (trauma etc) on the personal level. The new popular ones like jjk and demon slayer lack them in some way or just don't properly implement it. Chainsaw man only S1 is out so I judged on the basis of that. Opinion might change with S2 🤔

[@kartikaypant1393]

@@bloopworm it surely will

[@Mr.Eggthreal]

@@bloopworm The Reze arc is gonna be a movie so you might have to wait for a long time for the international assassins arc to be S2

[@LingeringSoul-yk6de]

Not dandadan , undead midluck and csm lol ,you really don't have gone through big 3 properly ,you just watched it from surface and dwelved deeper

[@LingeringSoul-yk6de]

Elaborate on dandadan's depth against any of big 3 or csm or even undead unluck Haven't read choujin x and hells paradise plot and story weren't good enough

[@monkexd7497]

True

[@TheComiKen]

TBH I mostly get this vibe from JJK. (and to a lesser extent Demon Slayer)

[@KuroKazeZX]

i just watched ad ai video, but it was decent

[@bloopworm]

💀👍

[@thegatorhator6822]

No I hated Juju Shitzen and Demon Semen. The only thing I liked in Juju was the 3 episode Gojo flashback. Fuck the rest of the cast.

[@GokudoBarzinho]

1:38 bro wtf naruto to jujutsu kaisen? lol JJk is totally Bleach, the author already said it was the major inspiration, Gojo is basically Urahara, chapter 1 is copy paste of Bleach chapter 1, Curse Spirits = Hollows, Domain Expansion = Bankai...

[@bloopworm]

Ah yes but I meant another analogy. Gojo = Kakashi Nine tails = Sukuna Sasuke = Megumi (clans) Ofc the plot changes heavily afterwards that's why mentioned it to be at the starting only.

[@dapopo1249]

These are battles of ideals character depth isnt necessary Would be nice if they had it but ultimately im not looking for another one piece

[@thedeed8740]

Chainsaw man? Jjk? Some demon slayer characters? MHA characters? What are we even talking about here 💀

[@bloopworm]

Actually Vinland saga 💀

[@thedeed8740]

@@bloopworm damn that was my next guess ngl 💀

[@KenzTheLesserLad]

POV: you want character depth spoon-fed to you

[@bloopworm]

POV: you haven't watched video till the end because vinland saga is the exact opposite of that.

[@KenzTheLesserLad]

@@bloopworm i watched it, dw, i don't think it's a bad take at all but everyone has their *own taste

[@mattsmichel9864]

For Chainsaw Man and JJK you're in the wrong. They're far deeper than you think, and a second read with some analysis may do you some good brother. Not a bad video though, keep up the good work.

[@anetery1226]

I doubt you actually put any effort into understanding new Shonen like Chainsaw Man or JJk past the trauma and violence. Also, these themes have been present in way higher quantity since the 60s, and if anything, they have dwindled in popularity. This video just feels like stupid complaining without any Real research done on the subject. You are just glazing old Shonen without regarding the new ones at all.

[@orpheemulemo8053]

What you think chainsaw man has depth yes but it's hidden behind shallow persona's at best it's Denji who has the most depth But jjk worry to much about the fight characters are one demensional

[@anetery1226]

@orpheemulemo8053 it's a fighting story and the characters express themselves through battle you really trying to say that yuji and Geto or gojo have no depth after season 2 then you are being delusional. Also you saying denji is the only one with depth in csm is ignorance. I can not speak for other modern Shonen as l have not watched them but this video neglects to mention anything and just sucks off Fma and hxh for the billionth time.

[@bloopworm]

I am judging those on the basis of anime. At this point chainsaw man only has S1 and I don't see it pulling me in the similar way when compared to another violent anime like dororo even tho it's one of the modern shonen but underrated. In my "personal" opinion jjk has always felt shallow. Simply speaking I haven't seen any moment in S1 which has made me go like "damn what a character buildup". In hxh if we take MC like killua you will see him going from being a heartless brat to someone who will do anything for gon. And that feels earned. But it didn't happen in S1. So let's take gon. We all know how much he suffered in the hxh exam arc. In the tournament he didn't give up despite getting his arm fractured and being tortured constantly. That shit felt so deep I started to root for that kid. Coming to S2 of jjk [SPOILERS AHEAD] I felt like the only earned moment was geto going rogue. Some of the important deaths like nobara dying just felt like "oh sad anyway-". Despite the backstories they failed me in connecting to the characters emotionally. Now what reason should I even point out here? If you didn't feel the same way then cool it's your opinion and this video isn't meant to change your opinion. Also I didn't point these things out because it would just become "why HxH is better than JJK and Chainsaw Man"

[@anetery1226]

@bloopworm if you can't connect with characters from newer stories that's a you thing as you said it's you opinion but ther is so many people who did and acknowledged the connection and development these characters had. You are saying this is a problem or saying the popularity of new Shonen is in unhinged themes. There is plenty of depth and connection to be found in moder Shonen stories, and if you look a little deeper, they aren't found in the unhinged themes but in the human connections between characters. Denji and aki, Yuji and nobara or nanami. If you can't feel for let's say Yuji but can feel for gon, then I am sorry, but l don't see your point. Because l could feel for both, l find Gon breakdown and transformation just as tragic as Yuji's breakdown and loss of morality and purpose.

[@orpheemulemo8053]

@@anetery1226 What depth do they have goals and shit Gojo is a funny sensei who lost his friend and know teaches the younger generation. Getos actions were stupid. Gojo not carring about killing toji after rikos death like and yuji always getting beat feels and convenient forced It isn't character depth how characters interact with each other is also stail only serving to bring the plot On a serfus level yuji hates sukuna because he made him suffer despite it being his decision to eat the finger a longer time could of been spent on yujis guilt For example you have frieza Goku hates him because his a murderer he killed his best friend but you also have vegeta who brings depth to frieza by showing how he surpress Ed vegeta people and we know how prideful vegeta is so frieza suppression gains depth and also you then have frieza characters who is power hungry and has a big ego We get a clear skope of how friezas existence effects the people around him Geto leaves we know Gojo is sad but we don't get a clear skope of it shoko is non existence like how did they feel We also don't get a reaction from the world after sukuna destroyed shibuya no crying families no news nothing Aki and power are great but they died too Quickly you get the whiplash in the anime when the first person dies that smoking girl they should of stayed for a hundred chapters atleast makima goals were to vague and her backstory could and reasoning could have been better Makima is the control devil and was raised by the Government instead of her being cold being an aspect of her just being a devil why don't we get something like the government groomed her into being their perfect weapon and a sad seen of her being raised alone and how chainsaw man is a way of erasing her past