Monarch 10EE Lathe Refurb part 22

In this video, we dig into the spindle drive issues, noisy gear train and reverse speed.

[@outsidescrewball]

Enjoyed...

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Chuck!

[@Hellbenderarms]

A trick I employ, to find the source of a noise, is to wear some ear muffs and place a long metal rod against one of the muffs and probe with the other end of the rod. Place the end of the rod at the non rotating center of the gears. It is surprising how much you can hear.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Dan, that's a great improvised stethoscope! I actually have one that's purpose built for automotive use (at least that's what I use it for)

[@amundsen575]

Great job on the 10EE, as the electronics go, the caps should be checked and replaced, when they fail they will stress the tubes which arnt cheap, check the resistors , they are probably good

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely do that!

[@acme4786]

This may be nothing but, I had the exact same sound on my DT466 that came from the belt tensioner bearing. Replaced the bearing and it was quiet.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks...I'm going to dig into it further and find the culprit!

[@acme4786]

@@fourpondsshop7940 When you find the cause post an update please. I watched all 22 episodes and don't need to lose any sleep over it // LOL ;)

[@LocoFabandMachineworks]

Thanks for taking the time to document it all. I’m just seeing all the missing pieces of my 10ee 😬

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks!! yes, there's lots of little bits on these machines!

[@waynep343]

a few things. the spindle module caps.. how old are they.. most caps have a 4 digit date of manufacture code.. first 2 digits are decade and year.. and the second 2 digits are week of the year produced.. do you have a capacitor tester so you could unsolder one end of the various caps and test them.. one of the caps i could read the date code seemed to be from 1984.. the others perhaps much older but i only got a glimpse of them. do you have a test of test clips for your meter leads.. long J hook test leads.. on the gears under the end panel.. if there was a crash.. i would really want to individually spin the gears to check for damaged bearings.. i would also want to check the straightness of the stud on the movable plate is.. something loosened up the clearance to the non adjustable gear on the pivot.. ether that mount if bent away from the moveable gear or the movable gear is bent away from the pivot gear during the crash. tremendous forces can be involved in a crash.. even sturdy looking things can bend.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Wayne...I don't have a cap tester but I do have J clips for my meter. I didn't show it on in the video but I had them hooked up when I was testing the voltages for the tubes to make sure I was in the spec window ( which I was). At some point I'll rebuild the module with all new caps, resistors and diodes. I did that on the other 20". It didn't really change anything but it's insurance against unexpected failure. As I mentioned in some of the other comment replies, I'm going to dig into the gear train and get to the bottom of it

[@bid6413]

Kevin, too much noise. Remove the gears to see you if the bearings are all good. If not print the gears and if buying new gears is prohibitively expensive, exchange them from one of your other machines. The noise would grate on my nerves. How about using your mechanics stethoscope to be sure no other bearings are contributing to the noise. It much have been neglect or a big crash to knock those gears that far out of adjustment. I can’t believe they were so far out of adjustment that were barely touching. I’m curious what would happen if you tightened them a little more. Would the lack clearance create friction and/or interfere with necessary lubrications? I know it’s not called for but what a little heavy high pressure grease do? High speed threading is probably not necessary for your projects? But very small diameter with very fine threads that high speed combined with a follow rest would be wonderful. As always, I learn a lot from your videos and very much appreciate the effort you put into them. Cheers, Will

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Will! Yeah I don't think I can live with that noise. It sounds like an old worn out Southbend! with that said, its actually much louder on the video than in real life. I'm going to dig back into those gears and find out what's going on

[@bid6413]

@@fourpondsshop7940 I am not surprised. Judging by the rest of your projects I thought you’d be tormented if you didn’t figure it out and fix it. Cheers, Will

[@danneumann3274]

I cant watch al Your videos as Im so busy. Thanks so much though for posting these. I have a 10ee and will always reference these videos for years to come when I work on My lathe. Great job and thanks!

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Dan, I totally get it!

[@glennstasse5698]

Good luck tracking down the noise. It sounds for all the world like the noise meshing spur gears make. Is running with that plate off even for a short time possible?

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Hi Glenn, I think it can be run for a short time, at low speed with the cover off. I'm going to give that a try

[@bid6413]

BTW, I think you are refurbishing your lathe vs. rebuilding it. A rebuild would mean regrinding the ways rebuilding the spindle and replacing everything thing that could possibly be worn in addition to all the work your are doing as you refurbish your lathe.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Will..I think that is a great characterization...I'm going with that!

[@BillyHardcase]

Not trying to be an expert here but @ 22.28 you can see the teeth on the two gears is only engaging at about 50 % of the debt of the teeth. At least form the camera angle. I don`t think it´s enough. I`m thinking this will ware the top of the gears down on both of them very fast and may also explain that awful noise. It sounds like the gear teeth is hammering into each other when turning. But then again I`m no expert. If you run it a little and the take of the cover is it all oiled up of kinda dry?? Anyhow the ratteling in the gars is a clear indication that something is wrong. Also it sounds costly. Still a very nice machine. I´d sell my old mother in a blink of an eye for that lathe.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Lars, So that's an interesting camera angle because those teeth are actually fully engaged. I'll be removing the cover and running to see if I can locate the noisy parts. I don't think I can live with that noise although its actually much worse on the video than in person

[@jamesallen3799]

Thank you for the documentation. I am working on my machine now. Removing old paint and working back the individual pieces. I want to paint with Sherwin Williams Poulain. Working now with two-part filler primer. I am doing this along with a 40-ton FAMCO press and a KT #2. Actually not a bad way to work and paint small parts. Again thank you.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

You bet James...enjoy the projects, when you're done and take a step back and look at the finished product, its always worth it in my opinion!

[@jonrbryan]

I hope I get the opportunity to use some of this info one of these days. Just have to get moved into my new shop so I have room. Sheet rock and painting should be done this week, then I have to start seriously searching for a 10EE. Glad the stuttering was just an adjustment in the drive. The noise sure sounds like a gear mesh issue. My little Logan was very sensitive to the mesh in the change gears as far as noise went before I set it up with an Electronic Lead Screw. Now it's just the forward/reverse toggle gears that make noise if I wind it up too fast with them engaged.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Jon, yes me too! I wasn't sure what was going to fix it but I'm glad it didn't involve expensive parts!

[@russkepler]

So the drive thumping was compensation as I suspected, glad it was adjusted out. That 60 tooth gear is also the gear you change out for metric threading (in conjunction with the headstock output gear). The stop rod can have a Lufkin 680B inside mike head on the end. Other mic heads will work including the Starrett, Mitutoyo and Central (Rhode Island) that use the 5/16-48 (? maybe 46) thread. I'd check the bearings on that 60 tooth gear and work my way into the gearbox to try and find that rattle.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Russ!. I'm going to pull that cover and run it again to see if I can pinpoint the noise. Also, thanks for the tip on the mic head. I'll have to start looking for one of those heads

[@Anotherhomeshopguy]

Sent you an email last week. Did you get it? Regarding the gears, do they need greased? Jeff

[@rodneykiemele4721]

I agree, sound very dry

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Hi Jeff, I did get the email..been super busy so my communications have suffered! I don't know if those gears should get greased or not. It doesn't look like they get much splash oiling from below so maybe I should grease them?

[@danf6070]

Hey, great video, really enjoying this series. Can you please explain the 3 thou clearance requirement in your next vid? I'm having trouble visualizing where the 3 thou of clearance is supposed to be. Is it the backlash distance between any two meshing teeth? Is it some other spec? Thanks.

[@fourpondsshop7940]

Thanks Ned! So the manual says "Adjust so the gears have approximately .003" clearance between teeth". That's an interesting way to describe the clearance. I've set up a ton of differential gear sets on cars and trucks and the setup is always described as backlash. I'm assuming monarch meant the same thing. When I did this the other day on the lathe, I had some .003" wire available so I used it by spinning the gears with the wire lined up with the contact surfaces on the teeth. It was very cumbersome and not sure if that method produced a good measurement. I went with it anyway because the manual said "approximately" and did not give a specific range like you would see with a differential gear set. When I take the cover back off to follow up on the noise, I'll use an indicator and a mag base to measure backlash in the traditional way.

[@danf6070]

@@fourpondsshop7940 Cool, thanks for the description.