Monster Cane Mill Restoration: Prepping the Reduction Gear Drive Shafts for Babbitt

[@ShopHumor]

Hot coffee and a new Keith Rucker video - no better way to start the day!

[@mhansl]

Same

[@rustywrench2119]

Same

[@garybrenner6236]

Yes get out the popcorn, lots of laughs!

[@mousemade1]

Hey Keith. Love your work, thanks for posting it. Suggestion if I may. Restrain that key before you spin the shaft up, especially if you are going to touch it with the cutting tool. A worm drive hose clamp will do fine. I know it is in there tight but if it does come out it will find a way to do you a mischief for sure. Cheers from Down Under.

[@rexmyers991]

Yeah, I was concerned that key might fly out also.

[@GooseGosselin]

Not gonna lie, watching that made me tilt my head to one side thinkin it was going to fly loose. I'm sure he knows what he's doing though.

[@samuraidriver4x4]

Was going to comment about the same thing. Hose clamp is cheaper then a bunch of surgery.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

@@GooseGosselin Losers open with: "fun fact" "not gonna lie" "to be honest"

[@garybrenner6236]

When he pours molten metal while wearing shorts, you should realize he is not very interested in safety!

[@jdiet-z4734]

Since finding your channel from the Tally Ho Capstan, I have enjoyed your channel.

[@billspear7702]

And, I found Tally Ho thru the threading machine restoration. The tide flows both ways.

[@paulkinzer7661]

I'm not a machinist, other than as a late-in-life hobbyist. I'm a retired childcare worker, who worked with kids from the time I was one. I remember reading books by Richard Scarry to some of the first kids I babysat, three young boys. They especially loved 'Cars and Trucks and Things That Go'. I didn't know it at the time, but the book had just come out that year, in 1974. I was also a later-in-life dad; my son was born just before I turned 41. He also loved 'Cars and Trucks and Things That Go', as well as any other books about machines; the bigger, the better. The thing is, I loved these books, too. There's a boy in every man, I think. Or maybe a bit of man in every boy? I get such a kick out of watching these videos, especially the series with big old machines used to restore big old machines. The more machines, and the bigger, the better! Thanks for taking us along, Keith!

[@johncarter1150]

I grow sugarcane in Northeast Central Georgia., a small cane mill would be used if I had one. I've learned a lot from your videos. Thanks!

[@terminalpsychosis8022]

This monster press is gonna be better than new. Already is. Amazing to see, and you can tell Mr Rucker is totally lovin' this project. I can fully understand his enthusiasm. It's awesome just to watch the pieces we see here.

[@phlodel]

I'm a retired maintenance technician for a manufacturing plant. Since profit was not directly my focus, I put centers in every shaft, if possible. It gives a puller a place to center on.

[@paulputnam2305]

The beauty of CNC lathes is that I can watch you machining while “I’m” machining. Awesomeness Extreme Professor!

[@EL34XYZ]

Except while you do all the CAD and CAM work before the CNC machining. :)

[@robertharker]

Feed the KZbin algorithm with a comment. Great video. Thanks!

[@petert3355]

Agreed

[@TradeWorks_Construction]

I’m very impressed with how serious you are taking this transition into full time content creation. Consistently seeing new content being posted from you really brings a smile to many of us. Since it is your full time job now I’ll hop on over to Patreon to help show my support.

[@kennethjunkert2990]

“It will be just fine.” and “No big deal.”….I love hearing these statements every…or almost every video. I wish Keith was my high school shop teacher in the 80s. I would have tried harder. Love the videos and the projects.

[@garybrenner6236]

I don't think a customer would like to hear that!

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

@@garybrenner6236 depends on the customer and on the job. Its like when Keith phoned up Tally ho about how the capstan would likely break. Also from the people who took this job on before they realized they coud'nt do it and we saw Keith take it on. It's not nice to have to do it but. but best to tell them ASAP so they know exactly where they are, the odds of each outcome and back up plans. In this case the time it took for pattern making and casting. I have done deep wall plugs that other tradesmen have failed at. reason being I lived in a house made in a very unusual way with unusual materials. It was not a slight on them that it caught them off guard when they took on fitting radiators. or kitchen cupboards ect. The same trades people ace this all day everyday better and quicker than I ever could at all the most common wall types.

[@johnmorris3744]

@@garybrenner6236there’s something to be said for judiciousness. If everything is top priority, the job will be top dollar. I think a customer can appreciate that, too.

[@Sizukun1]

Never thought I'd see Keith use that manual press like a jungle gym haha. I like this new video cadence, feels like the projects are racing along!

[@GooseGosselin]

You are always a breath of common sense in this crazy world, thank you.

[@josephkrug8579]

The key at 27:50....is that not just in there with a friction fit? I would have been scared to spin it that way and either taken it out, or put a set of hose clamps on to try and retain it from flying loose. Hopefully later in the video it stays in and does not cause issues.

[@stevenclaeys6252]

When it is all up and running, it would be really cool to see a video of that process. Thank you for another Great video. Cheers

[@plainnpretty]

i want to see it up and working

[@repete2362]

thanks for the video . just talked to my cousin in Montana he had his pine trees thinned . then the wind came up and blew down a bunch more trees. the loggers were out of the area so he is cleaning it up.

[@IsaiahMalin]

It kinda took me off guard to see you dangle from the arbor press like that 😅🤪 strong man in the shop 💪

[@Ervan-l9v]

WOW! This has become a major project. Certainly there are a limited number of facilities in the US that can tackle a project of this complexity. While this methodology was standard at the turn of the century it is to day a lost art. Very enjoyable to see the process thru. Hopefully at the conclusion we can see this mill in operation.

[@larrywalker7759]

"At the turn of the century." And which century exactly are you referring to? Remember, there was a turn of a century in the year 2000 also. 😁

[@garybrenner6236]

Oh yes, over here in the Colonies, I don't even think Elon Musk could handle a project of this complexity!

[@BillB23]

Thanks again for tripling your workload just so I can sit here sipping coffee while you work. Seriously, its quality work all around. I also see an upward curve on the videography. Ain't learning fun?

[@garybrenner6236]

''Quality Work? OMG

[@swilliams2229]

@@garybrenner6236 wow gary....none of us expected you to comment on BillBs statement. What a surprise !

[@ellieprice363]

@@garybrenner6236Why so negative? Exactly how would you do this very difficult repair?

[@jackmaxcy]

You're the "Bulldog" of projects!! You keep at it until its done!!! Thanks, Keith

[@richardbrobeck2384]

Keith Nice job with the turning !

[@bryansmant870]

Watching from Manila this week. Nice to see the progress being made.

[@davidwatsonii9469]

YOU HAVE BECOME THE MAN ON CANE MILLS, BUT THATS THE BIGGEST ONE I'VE SEEN, GOOD LUCK, LOVE THE CHANNEL

[@lotuselanplus2s]

Lol, one of the factories where i worked in Barbados, the rollers were 13 tons each, this is but a baby.

[@someguy2741]

Video Recommendation! Next time you swing from the press handle do a super long loud Tarzan yell. It will increase the pressing power by 35%. Thats your life hack of the day.

[@SciPunk215]

I can't wait to see this thing in action.

[@argee55]

Really enjoy watching you repair old equipment!

[@dennisclapp7527]

Thanks Keith

[@edsmachine93]

Nice work Keith, this Cane Mill is going to be nice when you're finished! Have a good weekend. 👍🇺🇸👍

[@thirzapeevey2395]

In the machine, those look like nice little gears. On the lathe, they are monsters. Nice job, my friend.

[@petegraham1458]

That is a monster mill ! For a single person shop that’s a lot of heavy rigging to get everything done to your standards! Well done I am enjoying following along ! Thank you for all the efforts you expend to video and edit this for us!

[@billlippincott3937]

Love your detail explanations!!

[@bchrisl1491]

Make me think of "The Chain Rule" when you were talking about the gearing. I hadn't thought about that for a while. I am waiting to see how the shafts are positioned for the pour that keeps the pinions properly meshed with the ring gears.

[@frankdoner8402]

As usual ,fine job Keith. Thank you

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Nice job, coming along.

[@SettledBatches]

0:10 - That door is a good vid backdrop; nice work.

[@glencrandall7051]

Nice piece of work. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks for the video Keith. Another step along the way.

[@MrArtVendelay]

Your customer who is watching how his machine is being reconditioned will appreciate that he gave it a perfectionist.

[@garybrenner6236]

Perfectionist? OMG

[@davidc6510]

Another great installment on this restoration Keith. Thanks for sharing.

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

A hit and miss engine. I had to wiki that. Awesome.

[@johnritchie3889]

Fun fact for math geeks - the small gears have 13 teeth, which is a prime number. This makes the small teeth meshing with a new tooth on the big gear every revolution. This evens out the wear on the teeth.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

Losers open with: "fun fact" "not gonna lie" "to be honest"

[@mikemelbrooks]

The fact 13 is a prime number has nothing to do with it. If the large gear was 78 it would be 6 to 1 and the same teeth would keep meshing.

[@jonathanrichards593]

@@mikemelbrooks See my comment which I just made before I saw this thread. It's having no prime factors in common which is the design feature.

[@johnritchie3889]

@ I guess I should have been more specific. 13 is prime and is not a factor of 77. Therefore, every tooth on the small gear meshes with every tooth on the large gear before repeating, leading to an even wear pattern on all teeth for both gears. If the large gear had 78 teeth, then any given tooth on the large gear would always mesh with the same tooth on the small gear leading to uneven wear. Setting this up is simplified if one or both gears have a prime number of teeth.

[@llrustyengines]

As always I enjoy your repair videos.

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith! Have a great weekend!

[@JohnUsp]

Good Work. Sucess for you.

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Keith!

[@bigun447]

Baby steps.... I told one of the old men in the shop that one time and he said "Babys take baby steps but remember this, they fall on their baby butts while taking baby steps until they get it right." The moral is ??????, or it is, little screw-ups are learning steps to the finished product. Over the 72 years of my working life, I am still taking baby steps on new projects as technology is always about two steps ahead.

[@johnwenzel9252]

Thanks Keith!

[@dirtapple1716]

Kickass Keith! Still able to lift your body weight at your age! Hope I'm in the same shape when I get there.

[@melshea2519]

Happy Friday Keith! 😊

[@patmcbride9853]

23:14 Thank you for the comic relief, Keith!🤣

[@BretBerger]

That key on the second shaft gave me a big concern while Keith turning it.

[@anthonycollin8303]

Thank you very much for the video.

[@Craneman4100w]

If the bar you used to press the axle out was not faced (not flat) on the end(s) it will cause the piece to bind in the bore when the piece being pressed gets close to the end and almost out. I've had that binding problem before but our press was a 150 ton unit so the binding showed up as an increase in the hydraulic pressure.

[@dingolovethrob]

monumental job!

[@Richard-vw8no]

Great job.

[@petert3355]

So glad that the key did not come flying out of the shaft @28:00. I'd either remove it first or put a hose clamp around it to make sure it stays put.

[@problem_solved]

I’ll second that motion…

[@garybrenner6236]

When he pours molten metal while wearing shorts, you should realize he is not very interested in safety!

[@petert3355]

@garybrenner6236 yeah, but he is wearing that apron....

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing.

[@argee55]

Another great video.

[@masteruniverse3506]

Thanks for teaching.

[@garybrenner6236]

I wonder when he will start teaching us about the Stoker Engine?

[@manfrommars3486]

One day, someone, somewhere should definitely make a full size statue of Keith, of course made of babbitt.

[@BlankBrain]

I put a ¼ HP blower motor on my Happy Valley cider press grinder. Optimum speed of the grinder is about 60 RPM (determined empirically). I originally used pulleys and a jack shaft. I used a spreadsheet to calculate pulley sizes using available pulley sizes. It worked great, but seemed kinda dangerous. I'm in the process of replacing the belts with a ½ HP Boston Gear 30:1 worm gear that I bought on eBay. That reduces the 1725 RPM motor to 57.5 RPM. There are eight blades on the grinder, so a blade cuts into the apples every 125 milliseconds. Faster, and they bounce around.

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing 👍

[@yokomzare201]

Keith, i wish you had removed the key from the second shaft you turned it in the lathe. Or at the least placed a strong hose clamp onto it. Take care, be safe, and carry on..

[@butter262]

Thought the same thing

[@garybrenner6236]

When he pours molten metal while wearing shorts, you should realize he is not very interested in safety!

[@TheOtherBill]

I was thinking if just the rotation of the shaft didn't send it flying, the slight contact with the cutter would bang/vibrate it loose enough for that to happen. Angels were watching.

[@kevinwayne7546]

very cool!

[@davidhudson5452]

Nice you will get there

[@stumccabe]

At 23:47 it looks like you were pressing on the gear, not on the shaft - that's why it wouldn't budge!

[@Frank-Thoresen]

If you heard the loud popping sound when he used the hydraulic press you know it was stuck and needed much more than 10 tons of force.

[@stumccabe]

@@Frank-Thoresen I think you may be right, but I think I'm right about the pressure being applied to the gear and not the shaft when he was using the arbor press - or it could be an optical illusion.

[@deathk26]

@@stumccabe The end of the shaft was sitting a bit proud from the gear. There would have been a little bit of movement if the arbor press could handle it. The spacer was right on the edge but wouldn't have been pushing on the gear.

[@sys2]

That hanging on the arborpress shaft is a no-no .. did that on a sheet metal shear once .. smacked my head so its a miracle im alive today ... heavy stuff and if it lets go the pipe will smack you in the head .. and it hurts =)

[@garybrenner6236]

You guys take this clown WAY too seriously! Each video is like the ""Comedy of Errors", so just get the popcorn, sit back and laugh!

[@ellieprice363]

@@garybrenner6236Did a big fat garden slug crawl across your burrito this morning?

[@jamesupton143]

Another Keith video. Its how we roll.

[@joewhitney4097]

Morning Keith, As always I enjoy your repair videos and appreciate very much your time, effort and knowledge you put into sharing this work with all of us. I would feel guilty if I didn't mentioned as others may have already seen and mentioned, (Keys left in keyways during turning) we all know, and you know the danger of centrifugal force can create with parts coming loose. The higher the speed and heavier the weight the more dangerous of becoming a projectile. Watching you turning that shaft area and then clipping the end of the key with the cutter made me cringe even more. Obviously it didn't come loose because we were watching the video, but we all know we may also have been reading about you being very badly hurt or being killed from a very bad accident. Heck, hose clamps, even several wraps of good tape around that key would make sure it would never come loose. Thankfully it stayed in place. None of us want you to become a statistic. We love your work, your videos and your help too much to see you fail in this way. This is just a warm safe hint from one of many of your faithful watchers wishing you well and not a criticism of you. We all are human. Thanks for sharing.

[@garybrenner6236]

When he pours molten metal while wearing shorts, you should realize he is not very interested in safety!

[@rmorganii]

Hi Keith...love your channel and thank you for sharing! Quick question from a non-macinist. Since you had to do all that turning would it been just as easy to replace those shafts and recut the keyways or is there a lot more to doing that vs what you did?

[@gritz1701]

Great philosophy! The kids I teach get so overwhelmed and it keep asking them, How do you eat an elephant, I bite at a time.

[@willfromhythe]

On the second shaft, wasn't there a danger of the key flying out when the shaft was being turned down?

[@Frank-Thoresen]

He should have secured the key with a hose clamp

[@garybrenner6236]

When he pours molten metal with shorts on, you should realize he is not very interested in safety!

[@DeutscheReichsbah100]

Hello Keith I would love to see it in action wen it all done

[@mattrich680]

Great video! What ever happened to the Victor safe? I was catching up on your old videos (9 years) and this series really fascinated me. I was looking forward to the dial and lock the whole time, but the latest video I can find is the pinstriping. Did the safe ever get finished?

[@JASPACB750RR]

So based on my math and assuming the engine pulleys are a 4:1 ratio, this thing would have roughly a 76:1 gear reduction. If the cane mill steam engine operates at 55-60 rpm, which was common for cane mills of the day to control crushing rate, the final drum will rotate at .75rpm. If the steam engine has 330nm of torque, then the final output would be ~25,000 nm at the drum. Does this sound right?

[@talltimberswoodshop7552]

Keith said the engine was a Fairbanks-Morse internal combustion engine.

[@jtg2737]

23:10 Mr. Rucker with all respect here, a shorter bushing that is closer to pushing out that main shaft should have been tried out. You are only increasing the chances of that bushing launching out like a dangerous projectile. Safety!

[@richardmerrill4036]

Having recently discovered this channel I occasionally wonder how any or all of the traditional machines have survived our gov’t. People at OSHA must lay awake all night dreaming about regulating and guarding them.

[@ramdynebix]

Grandfathering, laissez-faire, not used in commercial setting. Residing in a field. Many, many reasons.

[@richardmerrill4036]

@@ramdynebix I understand, thanks, but I know, they have a lot of tricks up their sleeves.

[@garybrenner6236]

Right now their more worried about keeping their useless jobs!

[@millwrightrick1]

One reason for having a shaft with a 2 and 11/16" shaft is that ball bearings are usually metric sizes and less metal is needed to be removed to get to a metric dimension such as 65mm or 70mm.

[@johnburger3287]

There were no ball bearings when that cane mill was made. That is why it uses babbett bearings.

[@millwrightrick1]

@@johnburger3287 Ball bearings were invented in 1794, long before the cane machine was made.

[@ddblairco]

thank you, please show the bearing scraping tool when you get to that step.

[@jonathanrichards593]

Interesting ratios. I note that each pair of meshing gears has no prime factors in common. This maximizes the time between any given two meshing teeth on the gears coming in to contact, I guess so that there is a minimal chance of a damaged tooth causing a wear issue on the gear it is meshing with. It certainly isn't because setting up a 77-tooth pattern is easy on the mathematics!

[@Orxenhorf]

Yikes! You're braver than me. I wouldn't have been in the same room with that key still in the shaft and spinning.

[@allredtail]

It appears from the camera angle that the spacer you put on the shaft when on the arbor press was not free of the gear. You had no chance of pressing it out when you were pressing on the gear.

[@battleshipnewjerseysailor4738]

I'm not a machinist, but I am an engineer and though that key stayed in place, I think you were lucky it did so

[@ColinWetherelt]

Nice

[@lifefromscratch2818]

I would guess that the reason that shaft sizes tended to be on the sixteenth is that back in the day the shafting wasn't that precise so it was common to design bearings a sixteenth under common nominals so they could precision turn all their shafts in house.

[@phensriwood2093]

10 -30 pm here

[@Dusty-Builds]

I really love your videos and watch all of them. I have a question. Sense you had to turn the shafts anyway, Why didn't you weld in the key way slot ends?

[@mikewatson4644]

Welding would cause tension in the shaft and make it pull and no longer be straight

[@jameswood9764]

Luckily the key way did not fly out!! Should add a bronze thrust washer to each side of the drum shaft and idler gears to prevent the drum and gears from rubbing into the bearing side surface?

[@bcbloc02]

I mean you could but straight cut gears in proper alignment won’t produce any thrust so it would mainly be a feel good addition.

[@dscott1524]

Were you comfortable with the keyway interacting with the Babbitt? I see you didn't bother welding up the keyway and turning back to size. That's a big mill! Cheers.

[@NikeHM69]

Keith, aren't you concerned that the open keyways are going to chew up the Babbitt bearings as the shaft spins? May not have been a bad idea to fill the excess part of the slot with weld and turn it down, since you were turning the shaft on the lathe anyway to clean the pitting.

[@rustywrench2119]

The Engine restoration project. Is it on KZbin?would love to watch that project. I have a 1913 Stover K.

[@robertmatthews4285]

How were the keys captured when they were spinning on the lathe? Seems risky if there was only a friction fit holding them in.

[@frenchcreekvalley]

Maybe a 5 gallon pail to catch the shaft?

[@carlbyington5185]

I think you need to add at least 14 more gears !

[@deemstyle]

Since you knocked that gear off, it sure seemed like a good opportunity to weld up that over-cut keyway. Especially given that it will interfere with the babbit- it sure made me curious why you didn't decide to weld it up.

[@mikewatson4644]

Welding would cause tension in the shaft and make it pull and no longer be straight

[@Frank-Thoresen]

That was my thought too. I think the key way would touch the babbitt bearing and cause it to wear out faster, same thing he said about the pittings on the shaft.

[@mikewatson4644]

@@Frank-Thoresen The keyway only extends a short distance into the babbit. Once it has worn a few thousandths clearance it won't continue to wear on the babbit. The pitting on the shaft was over a much larger area. In a perfect world, it would be nice to have the keyway filled in, but if it were a perfect world it wouldn't have babbit bearings

[@garybrenner6236]

Because he is an even worse welder than he is a machinist, if that's possible!

[@tomswindler64]

Nice 😎😎😎👍👍👍

[@BedsitBob]

Isn't it a bit risky, spinning that shaft with the key still in it? What's preventing the key from flying out?

[@5stereosteve]

Would it have helped anything to cut off the oversized keys and avoid the collision with the bearings? It would be more work and you would have to weld out the unfilled keyway. Probably more effort than the result would justify.

[@coldpond]

Will 1/64 peel throw gear meshing off at all?

[@jonathanrichards593]

I guess not, because Keith will put the mandrel in concentric to the original axis, and pour in the Babbitt metal. The bearing metal will be 1/64" thicker than it was before, and the shafts will run on the same axes they were designed for. I'm interested to know whether there will be an attempt to clean up the meshing surfaces of the gear teeth.

[@troyboyd3100]

Why not just turn the keys with the shafts, then fill the excess keyways with damming material prior to pour? That would save the hassle of making a pouring mandrel.