Monster Melee - Beholder vs. Adult White Dragon

Welcome to the first episode of Monster Melee, in which D&D creatures go toe to toe, claw to claw, eye stalk to eye stalk in a brutal fight to the death. In this matchup, we have two iconic CR 13 monsters, the beholder and the adult white dragon.
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[@esperthebard]

• In future Monster Melee videos, I will put condition markers on creatures to help remember things like frightened, slowed, etc. • Sorry for my confusion with the frightened saving throws later in the fight. This didn't actually impact anything in the fight though. • "Why didn't the dragon use its burrowing?" A creature can't burrow through solid stone, unless it has the tunneler trait (e.g. umber hulk). • Dragon should have had advantage on its Dex save against the slowing ray at 12:28, as it was dodging. However, it being slowed for that last turn had no impact on the battle. • I ran this encounter twice more on my own just for fun. The dragon totally annihilated the beholder both times. In the recorded match, the beholder really got lucky. • "Why didn't the dragon kite the beholder?" Kiting works best against melee creatures, not ranged. The dragon's flight of 80 feet is great only where it can fly with its wingspan of 35-40 feet, and this gets quite limited when the beholder goes into chambers and tunnels. Even if the dragon were to do bombing runs with breath attacks only, the beholder just readies its 3-eye-ray blast and the dragon gets ray blasted all the same. I ran this encounter two more times, and the dragon utterly destroyed the beholder. It wants to be in melee in this matchup-exactly where the beholder does not want it. • "Why are all the beholder's eye rays randomized?" That's how the 5e Monster Manual has it. I agree that it's weird. The legendary action eye rays I can see being random, but not the main three it shoots on its turn. • "Couldn't the beholder's central eye cone of antimagic shut down the dragon's breath attack?" Dragon breath weapons in 5e are not magical, so all the beholder's antimagic cone would do is negate its own eye rays. • "Couldn't the dragon use its wing attack legendary action to knock the beholder prone?" Beholders cannot be prone (immune to that condition).

[@Rubycule]

Also, the dragon should have had disadvantage on its opportunity attack due to being frightened.

[@Rubycule]

But I love your corrections and annotations via comment. Makes this a lot more watchable for the little rules lawyer that is sitting in my head.

[@esperthebard]

@@Rubycule It actually wasn't frightened. I rolled the repeated save at the end of its turn and it succeeded. Then I soon after forgot that and said it was frightened. Then I soon after said I'd forgotten to roll the repeated save at the end of its previous turn, did a retcon roll, and it succeeded (again). My apologies for the confusion. That's what I get for not using condition markers and running a very fast-paced combat. But hey, in the end, it didn't have any actual impact on the fight.

[@quasarsword7479]

Are you enjoying the forge over roll 20?

[@Rubycule]

​@@esperthebard 10:40 the attack happened before the dragon got its turn

[@flashfearless]

Fighting a beholder is like trying to fight a roulette wheel.

[@bluebird3281]

You end up broke?

[@ChazTheYouthful]

I've yet to see a roulette table disintegrating anything other than money

[@patrickmcathey7081]

Yeah 5th nerfed them hard. Imagine if it was like all the older boulders and it could choose the rays.

[@captaindred342]

Wow, really? I run beholders like they're smart, and they decide which ray to use when. that's how they always kicked my ass as a player in the old editions lmao Those nasty combos ...

[@The79yeti]

I really enjoyed this and would love to see more one on one monster battles! Hit point and condition markers would be great additions to future videos.

[@kevinsmith9013]

This is great! You need a co-commentater so it's like a legit boxing match. Fun stuff

[@scottlegros2616]

FYI for convenience, you could video a second you with a hat, or something to be the second commentator. Would require quick changes or editing.

[@windspast]

bold strategy cotton. Let's see if it works out for him

[@horstsimcoii2177]

1. White dragon cold breath is a con save, not dex. 2. Petrification ray is dex save, not con. 3. Petrification ray is dex save, not con. 4. The dragon made it's fear save the first time it rolled at the end of it's turn.

[@NoneNullAnd0]

The white dragon had cheats enabled and still lost. Get wrecked dragons.

[@zcjonesy]

Dragon also should have had disadvantage on the opportunity attack when the beholder left

[@trustme3321]

2. Petrification ray is dex save, not con. 3. Petrification ray is dex save, not con.

[@Nemchick]

He is very good and qualified GM

[@zcjonesy]

Any GM knows lil mistakes like these can happen, and when your going for high energy speed here, rule of cool trumps all. And there will always be Umm, Actually correctors (I’m one of them) For me it’s all part of the fun.

[@7kyro]

Great VS battle, keep ‘em coming. Also, don’t forget the dragon can burrow if it’s frightened.

[@esperthebard]

Thank you! Fyi a creature can't burrow through solid stone, unless it has the tunneler trait (e.g. umber hulk).

[@EaterOfBeholders]

You should do a battle of a slightly smaller scale next, like Mind Flayer vs Drow Mage!! I'd pay to see how these two intellectuals use their brains and wit to overcome each other's obstacles. You could also make it so that they have slaves / servants at their disposal, since they're both known to make use of other entities.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

Got your wish, it was a cool fight!

[@Variable-2-actual]

Flayer gates in a dragon.

[@esbenandersen2168]

This is a phenomenal idea. Hoping for many more!

[@secondarytrollaccount666]

Adult red dragon vs cloud/storm giant.

[@Jay_76]

This was probably the biggest upset imaginable. Those saving throws were abysmal, to the point that, in a real game, I would check to make sure I'm not wearing a red shirt, and I would definitely change out my dice. If you were to play this out 10 more time the dragon would probably win all 10.

[@airnoiphongsavath3340]

Yes I noticed all the dragons rolls seemed..ahem, biased.

[@filipferencak2717]

​@@airnoiphongsavath3340 Bro, dragons roll well on almost everything

[@MawsParasite2]

Oh cool you brought the deep intro voice back from your old top 10 videos. Very nostalgic.

[@esperthebard]

Hail to the old guard!

[@MawsParasite2]

@@esperthebard Indeed. Does the beholder smash the petrified dragon, or does it keep it as a stone prisoner?

[@hi117117]

you forgot to roll the opportunity attack while the dragon was feared with disadvantage.

[@ismlamaroof6438]

That dragon has my rolling skills.

[@purplehaze2358]

"Where D&D creatures go toe to toe. And claw to claw. And.. eyestalk to eyestalk." I would say "and beard to beard", but so far, there's only a single monster in D&D that fights with weaponized beard hair.

[@mdalsted]

*eyestalk

[@Gashren]

Two. Them's duergar dwarves can be crafty lil' buggers. ;)

[@atomicbuttocks]

Are you saying ice giant beards dont stun you? You clearly dont appreciate fine bear care /s

[@ServantofBaal]

@@Gashren Pretty sure they were referring to bearded devils, which do actually attack with their beards. I was gonna make a joke about two, the other being a particularly angry dwarf that listens to thrash metal

[@Gashren]

@@ServantofBaal yes I got that, thus my reply suggested the first being the bearded devil, the second being the duergar.

[@liamconnelly3115]

These fights need to get animated. I knew it was gonna be close, but I didn't think the beholder would win. Are these fights only going to be creatures with equal challenge ratings? To spice things up, you could make group combat or something. This is an interesting concept.

[@Evulchair]

Love this! a suggestion though, adding story to the two creatures fighting each other and why they are fighting would be really cool, and it would add some dialogue you can voice act for some extra flavor.

[@doyouevendab77]

And more sound effects right?

[@fhuber7507]

Beholders need to be able to select their eye rays and they need update due to very few spell effects having been developed in game when it was created.

[@GmoneyManPants]

This might be a good way for DMs to learn to run monsters more effectively for their players. I can attest to forgetting the dragon's frightful presence and similar abilities.

[@esperthebard]

I also find it odd that a beholder's eye rays are always randomized. The legendary action ray I can understand being random, but the rays on its turn shouldn't be? Like, how does it have no control at all over which rays it is firing?

[@accywacky2699]

@@esperthebard Beholders in prior editions have been perfectly capable of choosing what eyerays to use on which targets, the random thing is, I think, a way for dm's of these newer editions to just roll and not have to worry about tactics or smart use of monster abilities. Also the anti magic eye in prior editions would have blocked the dragon from using its breath weapon... not the most important benefit all things considered but still.

[@esperthebard]

@@accywacky2699 I know, I ran a ton of 3e and 4e. 5e for whatever reason has this wacky change to the beholder in which it can't control its eye rays. Dragons' breath weapon in 3e was magical (supernatural). It is not magical in 5e.

[@patrickmcathey7081]

Yeah in 3.5 they were terrifying with choice.

[@danpgrady]

Fun! Bring in guests to play the opposing monster and do polls so we can vote on who we think will win :)

[@batshine8]

Absolutely love this concept! Hope there are more to come in the future, this was a lot of fun!

[@roadmarch0364]

I knew the Beholder was going to win, they are nasty little boogers.

[@esperthebard]

For kicks, I ran this encounter twice more on my own. The dragon absolutely destroyed the beholder in both 🐲

[@roadmarch0364]

@@esperthebard I like this new series BTW. Looking forward to the next Death Match. I was also impressed with you Hags video. When I was playing Curse of Strahd, the Hags were making life miserable for my Barbarian. He gained a few levels, and slaughtered all of them, to include the 12 y/o who, had not fully turned into a Hag, it was sweet revenge.

[@forteanmobius3272]

Beholders are the ultimate Gygax monster. 3 save-or-suck per round and 45˚ of caster-hate.

[@HistoryInMyHands]

Brooooo! So glad you are still making videos! Always a treat to watch! ❤

[@seanhansz2864]

This was great! Billy Beholder and his pet statue! Thanks for doing this!

[@newtmow]

Super fun to watch. Can't wait for the next one

[@GmoneyManPants]

Great concept, my good sir! Keep it up!

[@zcjonesy]

Love the series! I love your commentator energy it does feel like a fight night! Also you recall these creatures abilities and things extremely well, especially when going so fast so the battle can feel right. Thanks dude

[@mcintma2]

Great idea for a series!!!

[@Ghost_in_the_Rain]

I almost didn't even watch the video because I thought, "This fight isn't even CLOSE." Well, I'm glad I stayed.

[@djj949]

Enjoyed the playbyplay. One lucky eye tyrant!

[@goldenbrigain7031]

This is why halflings' pray to a goddess of LUCK. They know what kind of setting they're in; doesn't matter if you're facing a damn empyrean, if the rolls are in your favor, you just got a nice farmhand the size of a tower who'll be working for your family for the next 40 generations of account of losing a bet to you.

[@d20doc60]

That was really fun! Let’s see more!

[@omgopet]

Ah, yes, spam rays until something turns to stone. This gave me BG2 flashbacks.

[@purplehaze2358]

Considering how explicitly magical dragon biology is in D&D, I'm surprised antimagic effects don't cause their bodies to stop functioning properly.

[@Rovaneon]

Ya, I don't think the breath weapon or other magical effects would work while within an antimagic cone.

[@doctorteethomega]

Before watching, the dragon has much higher damage output, but the beholder has several instant kills. Sounds like RNG will decide.

[@Sean-fo8kg]

@11:00 you forgot to give the dragon disadvantage on its opportunity attack.

[@jakegregory6477]

Great content mate!

That was great! super fun to watch!! Shows how much of D&D is about the dice gods being on your side.

[@Notsidgaming]

This would a fun PvP special event. Someone you draw maybe from patreon or special guest can fight Esper in a monster vs monster showdown. Could even hold a monster tournament in Ichoros of a specific CR lol.

[@esperthebard]

That could be cool!

[@joydjinn8692]

I approve this idea

[@clarkside4493]

Do Purple Worm vs Neothelid! They aren't quite the same CR, but it'd be kind of neat regardless.

[@redshadowblade13]

This is a battle I want to see!!! Thank you Esper.

[@kevinsmith9013]

You didn't give the dragon advantage against the slow ray when it was dodging...

[@Neves_G]

The rays aren't considered magical or a magical effect, by RAW.

[@esperthebard]

Good catch!

[@momot428]

But dodge give advanatage on dex saves ​@@Neves_G

[@daniel_tenner]

Dragon should have gone away for a minute after getting frightened. Plenty of spaces to hide and wait for the fear to subside. Meanwhile the Beholder can’t do much.

[@mattvaughn8525]

This is such a cool series. I do have to suggest that you do a best 2 out of 3 or even 3 out of 5 for all these matchups. It's extremely clear the dragon got abysmal luck and the beholder had literally every single thing go right and still almost lost. You could edit out a lot of the in between round thinking time and keep the videos a reasonable length. It would be a lot more editing work but I think for an awesome video series like this it would be well worth it and you would get tons of views.

[@Privateer_24]

These types of vids are good for showing just how things work especially with the higher level abilities.

[@ArtisticSoul347]

I was sure that the beholder was going down when it was down to 16 hp, but it managed to pull off the win. White dragons get a lot of flack for being the "weakest" of the chromatics, but this fight proves that they're no pushovers.

[@frantisekvrana3902]

Considering the speed advantage and the power of the ice breath, I think the dragon might want to kite the Beholder. In open air, it should stay out of reach until it is ready to fire, then fly in, taking 3 rays from readied action, blast the Beholder, and fly out. In a cave system, it would do similar but placing ground and walls between itself and the Beholder using it's burrow speed. Since each breath takes away around 1/3 of the Beholder's HP, the dragon would only have to take 9 rays.

[@Fiction_Kingdom]

I have been wanting something like this for years. A death match of dnd creatures seems so fun. I would really like to see multiple creatures vs 1 stronger creature. Also it would be awsome if there was a random wheel at the beginning or the end of the video that would randomly chose the two enemies (for the next video), the map they would fight on and maybe a special condition such as extreame weather effects or maybe something els.

[@stuffstuff6932]

This was fun! Loved the commentary.

[@m3w]

This was great! I'd love to see more in the series. Dragons vs. Giants?

[@boopernator]

What a great idea, this was very fun to watch. Almost like a sort of Gladiator match. One of these creatures should have had lair actions available. I could imagine a Beholder venturing into Dragons lair for some sort of massive treasure haul.

[@IllIllIIIllIll]

Really cool video, will enjoy seeing more of them in the future.

[@joze838]

Cool idea. I don't see why the dragon would not retreat when it has a debuff on it though. It can dash out of the beholders reach and choose when to fight.

[@wally837]

As 2 monsters, of the same CR battling it out that was great. There is almost a zero chance of this battle happening in the first place (notice I said ALMOST a zero chance) due to the habits of both monsters but especially the beholder. Beholders are VERY paranoid and very smart. They rely on minions to execute their plans and rarely leave their lair. The lair of an average beholder is is going to be scarier than some dragon lairs due to many traps and places an intruder can be flanked by the beholders minions.

[@burgscratch6301]

Man, a good fight! It actually subverted my expectations, and in a way I can actually like.

[@hippiexjipson]

Loved this, I’m excited to see more content like this!

[@yusharider]

I wanted someone to do this for years. Can't wait for more

[@7upac]

Look what you’ve done, bringing every rules lawyer out of the woodwork

[@DrVikingrMD]

This was a lot of fun! I really thought the dragon would win. I can't imagine many adventurers seeing an adult white dragon statue and continuing to seek out that Beholder.

[@professorpandemic7295]

DUUDE! That was metal! Now you have to use that location in a campaign so the adventurers can see that stone dragon.

[@SquirrelGamez]

That was surprising, but you can't underestimate those eye rays!

[@jerodrichardson7332]

More of these please! Great video

[@joshuakirkham9593]

This is a great series for showing how combat works in DnD.

[@Mastikator]

The opportunity attack at 11:02 should've with disadvantage. A frightened creature has disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls while the source of its fear is within sight.

[@NWLR-tv]

A Vrock or Wyvern vs Chimera fight could be dope

[@morielrorschach8090]

I love this idea. Like a little delver's bash.

[@rodneygriffin7666]

Don't fuck with Beholders, lesson learned.

[@RenaissanceManchild856]

I love this series! I recently play tested rhod on my own which I ran on 5e rules but wanted to see how a dragon plays on 3.5 - it was super time consuming but very cool to reacquaint myself with the many many rules I had forgotten. But what better way to learn about monster statblocks than see them in action! And your own insights in the comments are very informative. Hungry for more!

[@joedominguez8064]

This is a great series, I used to run this type of battle royale all the time when I couldn’t meet with a playgroup 😂 lots of fun

[@briacbarthelemy1771]

Very cool concept ! Thank you

[@bobthedemon1975]

7:38 - Best part of this video!!!

[@JayMcAllaster]

Foundry VTT can automate all these rolls and conditions with minimal add-ons to help keep track of bonuses and conditional effects. Including a few automations, like breath attacks and ray attacks.

[@viniciusklaussnerfonsecaco1952]

I actually had this idea to start a DND channel doing this... since i havent seen anyone doing it!! But since you are i trust in you to do this!! I am eager to see if this will be a successfull one!

[@edpistemic]

This was lots of fun! I would edit in the falling HP nice and clearly/boldly at the top for the next one, though

[@chrismc3744]

I think you're missing one of the Beholder's strengths: it's extreme paranoia and meticulous planning for every possible event. I could only imagine a beholder would have had a magical device, or set the scenario up to give it as much of an advantage as possible.

[@SadeGames]

My friend and I do this sometimes on r20. We did an ancient red dragon vs Orcus (you'll never guess who won that one) and Bahamut vs Tiamat from Fizban's

[@travelwell8098]

The best part was Esper's Beholder sound effect!

[@SteelExoskeleton]

Great job! I would pre record sound effects for the combatents so gou can play them during the fight, then you can build up a library of records to use in the future, also showing status affects is a good idea.

[@kyrryk4427]

The dragon had some very low rolls. But ... that's D&D for you!!!

[@michaelwinter742]

11:30 - I’d have had the frightened, already further behind than it should be dragon run away and regroup. Dragons are smart and long lived. They regroup rather than accept a bad start to a battle.

[@esperthebard]

In a regular campaign, I'd probably do that. In a death match arena-style battle, probably not though.

[@JimbieXD]

This was freakin epic! Would love to see more

[@sfp2290]

This is a great idea for a series! I hope to see more!

[@lvl20gelatinouscube]

This is an extremely fun topic for videos

[@rememberstayangry2366]

The beholder is a one on one beast. The opponent is has to make up to 4 saving throws per round.

[@adrenalineunlimited]

And with the experience points the beholder will take a level in draconic soul sorcerer

[@canceresbunny]

I love this Celebrity Deathmatch comeback.

[@dashua1735]

I think another fun idea is to give the monsters a narrative reason why they're fighting!

[@rub-al-khali4265]

Fantastic! Loved it. Thank you👍🏻

[@raytheerudite5252]

I’ve been hoping to see something like this. It gives a DM some ideas on how to run the monsters.

[@bokkenknuser]

Wow really enjoyed watching this death match!

[@Sir-Cyr_Rill-Nil-Mill]

a shattered statue for some _adventurer_ puzzle *solver* only piecing the shards together to identify the valuable parts, cast stone to flesh & collect the goodies.

[@tomruk95]

Please do more of these love monster battles also could we suggest match ups

[@Stormalisk]

Its funny cause, by both of their lore, someone was gonna end up as someone's trophy.

[@AngelWatson-fu7ub]

Ya man love it. U should do some more matchups like some devils vs demons or even a demon lord vs lord of the Nine

[@firestorm165]

That came right down to a razor edge

[@londiebanks4738]

This is awesome, I'd watch more of this 100%

[@samuelmiles4020]

Loved this, more please!

[@jordanwhite8718]

It would be awesome if you could hire some of the animators from the death battle when running the spice. That way you could still roll for them, but it would be cooler if you could make the battle like that. But yeah, I love this concept and I’ve been waiting for someone to do something like this.

[@esperthebard]

This is a concept I've been kicking around for years. Not sure why I waited so long to try it.

[@jordanwhite8718]

@@esperthebard It’s really great concept. With the amount of official monsters that exist in fifth edition, this will give you content for years. Just wish I had the skill to do something like this.

[@jakewarman7277]

Interesting concept, definitely want to focus on high cr creatures and don't hold back on optionsl features. I would love to see some of my favorite big bads played before I have to run them myself

[@hungreyginger7478]

Esper needs to do a Nightwalker vs a Lich. Would be a fight to see

[@Quietu]

That a house rule with the double petrification ray? Fought many a beholder at several tables and never had the petrification ray quicken the effect.

[@andrewhalverson6974]

This was really fun, and my money was on the dragon. Ive always believed dragons should be immune to fear, paralysis, stun, but vulnerable to sleep.