MOORGATE ANNIVERSARY FEBRUARY 28 2015

I have decided to put together these two documentary films that were aired on British television, one in 1975 by BBC Southeast., the other in the 1990's called '' me , my dad, and moorgate '' . My question is this- Today people who were involved in child sex abuse scandals are being brought to justice 30 years on, so why shouldn't those who knew about the un safe railway and previous station terminus over run's that had occured BEFORE moorgate, be brought to justice and charged with the manslaughter of the 43 people that were killed on the morning of February 28th 1975 ? , This terrible event needs to be not only remembered alot more, but those who believed in a ''reactive railway '' as opposed to a '' Proactive railway '', should to this day if they are alive be brought before a court of justice . And why was Guard Bob wondering throughout the car looking for a paper to read, when he should of been at his position ready to pull up driver Newsome ?, forty years later many questions remain un answered. . . .

[@michael32A]

19:57 - "There's no justification for spending money to prevent accidents that haven't happened." I had to rewatch that multiple times to believe my ears. 😱

[@danielleehim3077]

Just watched that bit myself one wonders who this guy was to come out with such a comment!?! Have to say its a good documentary I remember the presenter from when I was young in the 70s.

[@ferguszade5594]

@@danielleehim3077 The Colonel sounds like someone from a Liz Truss cabinet.

[@Creighton-Jones]

My sincere thanks for uploading both of these programmes - in particular "Me, My Dad and Moorgate" which I missed when first broadcast and it has never, to my knowledge, been repeated. Your efforts were very much appreciated.

[@Richardsrailway]

drpoxy no problem glad you enjoyed !

[@geoffreybrooks2248]

The psychiatrist consulted gave it as his opinion that Driver Newsom was possibly abruptly overcome by a condition known as "temporal lobe seizure". Newsom, who was said to be in perfect health, "would have had to have become suddenly ill between Old Street and Moorgate stations" and then not have been aware of, or responsible for, his actions. Ten years ago at the age of sixty-six I suffered two similar events. I found these to be so extraordinary that I described them at length in my daily journal, and until seeing the psychiatrist speak during the Moorgate videos had found no explanation. I thought perhaps I had been sleepwalking, but the medical opinion is that this cannot happen to somebody simply out walking. I do not take drink or drugs, am vegetarian and have no medical conditions causing any concern. I have been an auditor and in retirement translate books on commission. INCIDENT ONE. Monday 13 September 2010. I had gone to meet my daughter from school at the usual bus stop. The afternoon was grey and drizzly. Fifty metres short of the bus stop I remember thinking, "This is getting awfully grey" and then I "awoke" disoriented and confused having walked for eight minutes deprived of consciousness. I had crossed two of the most dangerous road junctions in Buenos Aires while unconscious to finish up in a road where I had had no intention of going and which I did not know. INCIDENT TWO. Wednesday 20 July 2011. It was dark, midwinter. My walk took me along the street Laprida which I know well. In the distance I could see my destination, the well-lit street Cordoba. The first intersection should have been at street "General Mansilla" but I was shocked to see that it read "Aguero." This street Aguero runs parallel to Laprida and was 100 metres to my right. On this occasion at Aguero the period of unconsciousness had been brief and I "awoke" confused and disorientated. I could not find my way back to Laprida which was only 100 metres on my left and in sight, and eventually I had to ask a policeman for directions, It would be my opinion that Driver Newsom was suddenly taken ill under the first set of circumstances above and continued to drive the train while unconscious. It is interesting that in the official report purloined by Laurence Marks, the journalist mentioned that the Guard, Robert Harris, recounted an earlier incident of Newsom "overriding" the platform end. In my opinion, and I am only imagining myself as an Underground train driver, this would probably have been the crucial warning for Newsom that he should have consulted the London Transport medical advisor before driving again. I have never had a repeat of these two incidents ten years ago but it is a frightening thought that one could recur without the least warning. Even so many years after the accident, my sympathies go to the Newsom family for what they had to suffer as the result of this dreadful event.

[@loobylooroden6176]

I thought about this accident when the Glasgow bin lorry crash happened. Sad.

[@letsdiscussitoversometea8479]

Might it be possible that your physiological state had gone into "shutdown" mode, as it were?? Physiological energy can be expended to cause the brain to activate in certain actively conscious ways - even if in a relatively subtle way. Sometimes, this state can shut down as a means of recovery from processing exertion from various organs, which will typically happen during sleep. However, it may not necessarily be exclusive to the idea of ALL the organs recovering. Sometimes, the brain may be functioning perfectly well, while the other organs are in shutdown mode - such as when meditating. Conversely, *_certain_* areas of the brain may shut down - those that "give consideration" to things associated with physically adverse obligations - such as obeying traffic lights, as opposed to looking out for critical safety hazards (which happened to me on one memorable occasion). I was approaching a set of traffic lights while out driving one day, and - not feeling the need to remind myself to consider something [which didn't present effortlessly understandable objective common sense - in the way that _possible_ REAL speeding traffic might have approached me from either the left or right could have been a real, understandable danger], I went through this set of (red) traffic lights, without a second thought as to the presence, or *relevancy* of them]. This failure to consider the "relevancy" of them (which is purely a CONDITIONED fashion in which to perceive them), uses a part of the brain which was "asleep" at that time I believe. My processes for actually checking for REAL danger, were unquestionably clear and alert. In the case of Leslie Newsom, perhaps it was possible, that the physiology associated with recalling the obligation for himself to commit to artificially nonsensical procedures (which may not have made the relevantly understandable sense to him), simply didn't come into effect for him. That part of the brain - or should I say - the physiological connection between his brain and physiological processes, were in shutdown mode [at that moment].

[@mrkipling2201]

Apart from the people killed and their families, the person you have to feel sorry for is the wife of the driver. Her husband had just died in a very horrible and public way and then she had to answer questions about her husbands actions and his character. You could see in the footage that she was almost doubting him herself. Must have been horrible for her. A very strange case in my opinion, one that hasn't really been satisfactorily solved at all.

[@artisticskillz01]

My dad called the driver a dirty rat ever since that day as my nan (his mum) died on that train.

[@mrkipling2201]

​@@artisticskillz01 I can understand his anger and frustration. Especially as we still don't know for sure why the driver was going at that speed and didn't brake.

[@McSynth]

I feel so sorry for the driver's poor widow. Clearly suffering deeply, the summy tabloids did little to help. Nothing changes..

[@scott-ish404]

Thanks to your video compilation I'm now more aware of the tragic events that took place in Moorgate station that faithful morning. Whereas upon seeing the plaque with the victims' names a decade or so ago in the station, when still living in London, I hadn't the faintest idea of its real magnitude. Thanks from a 'ex-Londoner' from Brazil lad who cannot help to lament such a horrific and unfortunate accident. By the way: the Wikipedia entry for the accident says the latter documentary was broadcast on June 4th, 2006,

[@lesleyleith4440]

I travelled on the tube for many years. It was not unusual for drivers to overshoot a platform leaving passengers to walk back through the carriages to exit the train, sometimes the doors were opened.

[@Richardsrailway]

Lesley Leith , yes . On the older trains if you overshot by a single pair of doors or often the actual platform was built without the additional car lengths in mind , you could as a driver cut out the first set of doors so they wouldn’t open and the passengers would use the adjacent set , anything more than that would be serious trouble

[@Richardsrailway]

Update on the above film. although I uploaded this two years ago, i recently found out, some very valid and if you like a missing piece in the story of Moorgate driver Leslie Newsome . The information was given to me by a recently retired London Underground train driver who remembered Leslie newsome as being " well known to nod off all the time and was well known for sitting in the canteen at Baker street eating his meal and then suddenly freeze and star blank into space with food still on his knife and fork , on other occasions he would as a guard open his door once the train had stopped in the platform and moments later a passenger on the platform would have to go up to him and shake him to remind him to open the passenger doors on the train as he had just gone blank and stared into space again .This would account for the eye witness accounts of Newsome looking ahead with hands on the controls at the moment of impact at Moorgate. Train 272 was taken to Neasden depot , where the wreckage from the first two cars that were compacted together were stored on a low wagon in the old steam shed. Apparently the stench from the rotting corpses that lingered was very strong and it was hosed down several times, until it was taken to watford tip and buried .

[@glpilpi6209]

TRIPLEVALVE62 THE DEPOT The driver may have had an undiagnosed sleeping disorder condition for a long time which affected his abilities.

[@Richardsrailway]

Yes , my theory is Les had an undiagnosed form of epilepsy that caused his brain to switch off momentarily, he had suffered during WW2 with an injury caused by standing next to a battery gun that misfired , leaving him permanently dead in one ear , then in the 1970's he was assaulted as a guard while coming to the aid of a female passenger who was being harassed by a man , he took several blows to the head , but survived

[@lofthouse23]

This is my theory that the poor driver was unwell and not suicidal. Leslie Newsome does not strike me as the suicidal type.

[@davidlee4619]

Having watched the documentaries, and as a layman my theory is similar to yours above. The driver's mind, for some unknown reason, had gone blank and he was as some people say "in another world". His mind was elsewhere but his body was still active in that he held down the relevant controls to keep the train moving, without realising he was at the end of the line. In fact he probably never realised what happened. I would have thought though, that instead of the end wall being black, there would have been red lights installed to signal the end of the line. The red lights may have triggered something in Leslie's brain to indicate danger and he may well have stopped in time if these had been installed. Such a terrible tragedy.

[@superteacher1000]

filmtechnz There was a red light on a stick just before the sand drag.

[@ChubbyChecker182]

Very sad incident. This is an excellent document of it.

[@Velvetcool]

That theory makes sense to me. Having driven buses for 3 years, I know how easy it is to let your mind wander when doing a repetitive sequence. I occasionally lost my concentration and went the wrong way. It would explain why he didn't put his arms up to defend his face.

[@plhebel1]

I think like you also,,, Except when I comes to the part where people were thrown out of there seats because of the overspeed at the track junction split to go to the platform. It sounds very out of place and should have snapped the driver out of his daydream if in fact that's what was going on,,, If not the man must real had some type of attention deficit disorder and should have been picked up during his training . If he was still in that daydream he wouldn't have raised his arm or because the wall was totally black he never saw it coming? I'm sorry but unless its family or people close to you during a murder suicide,,, I can see how a person could go thru so much of life with the kind of sick/narcissist thinking one must have to knowingly take all those people with you when you decide to check out.

[@28YorkshireRose12]

I can agree in the most part, having spent many years working in farming, and driving tractors up and down the fields, hour after hour, day after day. You seem to get into an autopilot mode. Tractor driving calls upon very specific complex actions during, and at each end of a run - headland manoeuvres being the most complex. I can remember my mind would go off and explore all manner of subjects while my body would drive on autopilot. It was quite possible to complete an entire job and remember very little of what you had done, except perhaps starting out, setting up the machinery, any specific complications or obstacles to negotiate, which would bring you back to the here-and-now (trees or electricity pylons in the field being good examples) and meant you had to start thinking again, and thus were concentrating on the work in hand. In a similar fashion, I know of many people who have driven themselves from work to home in the evening, with no recollection of the journey, or people who, for some inexplicable reason find themselves in a state of distress when they 'come to' on the journey and cannot identify where they are on that journey until they see an unmistakable landmark that 'puts them back on the map'. Then the panic situation when a driver finds themselves well into a journey, doesn't recall starting off, nor anything of the journey thus far, and they start to fret over the possibility of unconsciously passing traffic lights at red, going over pedestrian crossings and through road junctions. I have long suspected that driver Newson may have lost his bearings on the journey, and may have believed himself to be one or more stations further back than he actually was. In his eye, he may not have realised he had reached the end of the line, and carried on into the tunnel in the belief that he still had one, or more, stations to go. Bearing in mind that the tunnel ring sections have a mesmerising effect, coupled with an absence of distinct landmarks to keep you situationally in sync with reality, I fear that his concentration may well have momentarily stepped out of consciousness and 'lost' one or more stations. Remembering also that at the time of the incident, it was quite common to find "pilot error" as the cause of many an accident, but as history, and tireless campaigning by those left behind to pick up the pieces, has shown, re-investigation of an event can sometimes uncover new evidence to exonerate the pilot/driver. Blaming the driver was always considered to be the cheapest and easiest way to conclude an enquiry into such incidents.

[@lolasmom5816]

I drive a lot for work. The term "tunnel vision" exist for a reason. Ive experienced it myself. I think its a very good possibility here. Either tunnel vision or a type of seizure that couldnt be diagnosed after death. No one can ever convince me he was at fault.

[@icemachine79]

@@plhebel1 I think his mind could have wandered enough to not realize the significance of the jolt at the crossing track.

[@peterdockrill9653]

I was on a bus the other day and the driver accidentally drove through a red light, he pulled up just in time when he realised what had happened. You guys do a good job.

[@tori4214]

My dads best friend was on the train at the time luckily she is still alive today and has had to undergo lots of surgeries to fix her

[@Richardsrailway]

Oh wow

[@ianmillan1078]

Writing on the wall, mr

[@dominewimbury2039]

Aww xx

[@vainhedgepig6302]

Thanks so much for uploading these. It's the first time I've seen video of interviews with those directly involved. I've been looking for "Me, My Dad and Moorgate" for ages, wondering whether it was as biased toward the suicide theory as it seemed.

[@Richardsrailway]

Vain Hedgepig Hi Vain Hedgepig, glad you enjoyed the items. I think the second film was more about the son finally finding out about is fathers death and how in a way the accident was very personal to his broken relationship with his late father

[@bwktlcn]

I have had patients with absence seizures-it would look exactly as the driver was described. He wouldn’t have thrown up his hands, as his consciousness was absent during the incident and he wouldn’t have been aware of the wall. I wish we could do an autopsy, using today’s science....

[@Richardsrailway]

Nellie Olsen absolutely, as I’ve mentioned before in the comments related to this video , Les lost his hearing during the war due to standing next to a battery gun that misfired , the later on in his career with LT as a guard he was hit over the head whilst coming to the aid of a female passenger , he had previous incidents of visually not being coherent

[@cerneuffington2656]

Thanks for the upload. I think the Nationwide clip is from the 4th March 1976 - that's the day the report was published.

[@ajs41]

John Stapleton is a great reporter, even today.

[@nickyjay25]

No Way was this suicide, please remember that at this time, it would have been a lot easier to make it the drivers fault than the train operator.

[@Richardsrailway]

nickyjay25 we will never know , but I believe it was a medical condition that was overlooked by LT at the time and the fact Les newson didn’t shield his face or react at the moment of impact. The drink theory was proven to be wrong due to the amount of tea in his body and each cup he had about four to five sugars , so when sugar fermented in heat over a period of time turns automatically into alcohol in the blood system.

[@EM.1]

@TRIPLEVALVE62 THE DEPOT by the informations added in your update comment, and my personal experience, epilepsy is the only explanation for the accident that is medically able to justify the testimonies of his behavior. Further information, every dead body that is in advanced decomposition produce alcohol in the body by bacterial alcohol fermentation, due to the bacteria that produces alcohol while eating the decomposing flash. Having an high amount of sugar ingested shortly before the death, will make the alcohol amount even more higher, but it was a time where forensic science wasn’t so much developed and the case was studied mainly by exclusion of each possibility, in addition neurological problems were stigmatized and difficult to diagnose especially in case of epilepsy, when in case of seizures some patients have no memory and consciousness of what happened.

[@UncleGrunt]

E M epilepsy in a person with no prior history, signs or symptoms, especially at his age if he had not previously had a stroke, would be pretty rare. Even undiagnosed there would be things his family would notice. It can't be ruled out I guess but suicide is more likely imo. That's also something people can show absolutely no warning signs of

[@Sam_Green____4114]

It was accelerating towards the wall from 15 mph to 36 mph !! How could it not be suicide ?

[@lofthouse23]

@@Sam_Green____4114 Because the driver doesn't strike anyone as the suicidal type. Would a person who was going to end his life want to buy his daughter a car after work? Would a person who was going to end his life be cheerful and joke with colleagues. I also believe it was medical.

[@jackharrison6771]

Thanks for posting. As a retired Signalman, I'd have to ask who the hell does that TV Interviewer think he's talking to? What's his background in this subject? NONE. So who is he to argue as he does?

[@London1064]

I remember this well and it still fascinates me.

[@lolasmom5816]

I hope the drivers family is finding confort in a growing number of people realizing it wasnt his fault. He didn't do this on purpose. Its too late to ease his wifes mind but hopefully shes found peace now.

[@Richardsrailway]

Ashley Galyean Helen newson died a good while ago , but she I would imagine took that to her grave the way the general public viewed her family and les ,

[@mrkipling2201]

This is a great upload thank you. As they say on here hindsight is a wonderful thing you could have said that kings cross fire wouldn’t have happened if the wooden escalators had been replaced but again that’s hindsight

[@LaZoucheCustomshop]

I had never heard of this tragedy until now, good progeammes. When journalists and the TV investigative programmes actually did proper homework and research instead of the smearing and diabolical lying they peddle these days, how far things have fallen.

[@Richardsrailway]

LaZoucheCustomshop . Absolutely.

[@VirreFriberg]

In my opinion, the crash was caused by miscalculation. If a driver entered a station too quickly they would most likely bypass it completely as to not overshoot or brake too hastily. I believe that when Newson entered Moorgate he himself realised that the speed was too fast for a comfortable and safe stop, so he decided to continue down the line instead. However, he wrongfully calculated it to be a through-station (possibly Old Street) rather than a terminus, and when he came to his senses it was already too late.

[@splitneedle]

In conjunction with comments on his potential condition. The train was running at least 30 seconds late to start with, and the driver was known to be extra cautious and drive slower than the average driver. This would add additional time to an already late journey. Was he trying to make up time at a speed he was not accustomed to, being that this was in rush hour. His habits and responses, as well as superiors, under these circumstances need to be understood, and also the collective amounts of near misses on that route . He had, apparently, complained to management that he was not happy with the route. What was the cause of his unhappiness-was it recorded.

[@Richardsrailway]

splitneedle Les has gone to his GP about some marriage problems that were bothering him . But having a history of mentally dosing off was well known by others on the job who knew him , making up time wouldn’t of been a factor , lack of sleep and the fact he would drift off mentally was . LT never installed train protection at terminal stations until AFTER moorgate . They knew of the dangers and potential for a major incident , they knew about Les being only a new driver and him nodding off mentally, nobody will really know only the driver sadly . My closing comments are still to this day LT should shoulder the blame 100% don’t blame the driver or his family ,

[@artisticskillz01]

My nan died on this train. Mary O'Brien. My dad was 16

[@chris7921]

She must have been very young at the time. So sorry to hear that

[@mookie2637]

I'm pleased that Laurence Marks has been able to 'move on'. The point that he has done so by reaching a conclusion (that the driver had had a drink to stiffen his resolve to commit suicide) that is not supported by the evidence is nonetheless depressing.

[@Richardsrailway]

mookie2637 right . What really is appalling is that he posed as a grieving friend who lost a a friend in the crash, when he turned up on the Newson’s front door only to later reveal he was actually a journalist. He hounded that poor family who were and to this day hated by society, regardless all the bitterness in the world cannot bring those involved back to us .

[@lolasmom5816]

If he had been planning suicide he would've bought the car for his daughter b4 doing it. It was clearly something important to him and he had the money. He wouldnt have committed suicide b4 buying her car

[@archaeobard1]

Just watching the first one, it is interesting to see the difference a few decades makes in the understanding of why accidents happen. I've watched and read many documentaries, accounts and reports (such as the NTSB reports for the US available online for free download) on a variety of different accidents. I am fascinated by modern forensic and psychological approaches to investigations. It seems to me (and of course I'm not an expert), that the driver had a loss of situational awareness. Training in avoiding it is now included for airline pilots, train drivers, long haul truck drivers etc, but back in the 70s everyone was trying to simply pin it on the driver or suggest he was drunk, committed suicide etc. Is it really his fault if his brain is tricked by the environment he's working in?

[@Richardsrailway]

archaeobard1 good comment , as I have said from feedback from drivers on the underground who either knew Leslie or remember him , he had suffered from previous lapsed concentration in his job as a guard on the district line in the early 70's , he was assaulted by a passenger when he came to the aid of a female being assaulted on his train , he was struck over the head , during his wartime service he was standing next to a battery gun when it misfired , the explosion left him with deafness in one ear , it's possible that some neurological damage was sustained also but as we know in those days advanced medical technology was not about , it's possible Leslie newsome had a form of epilepsy that was not diagnosed by his GP ,

[@ajs41]

Well, it definitely wasn't suicide in my opinion. Anyone doing that would raise their arms or hands just before impact. Even if you didn't want to do so, you'd do it instinctively.

[@joannegray5138]

John Stapleton looking older in 1975 than he does today.

[@mariekatherine5238]

Poor man had epilepsy, undiagnosed. People died, a tragedy. Nobody commits murder-suicide because he can't get it up!

[@cjstibitz2130]

It has not in any way been proven what officially happened

[@EM.1]

@cj stibitz do you have some others believable hypothesis that explains the informations added in the pinned comment?

[@Sam_Green____4114]

he committed suicide ,he was facing retiremnt and had nothing to look forward to except a shtty flat with a nagging wife!

[@itwontcomeout5678]

@@Sam_Green____4114 he died with money in his pocket to buy his daughter a car as soon as he got off from work later that day....

[@Sam_Green____4114]

@@itwontcomeout5678 so what!

[@eddiewillers1]

'Whispering' Bob Harris was a Tube Guard; who knew? LOL

[@Richardsrailway]

Eddie Willers 🤣🤣

[@stevehillier7018]

I new someone who had an epilepsy condition as mentioned here. Before it was diagnosed he drove his car and had an attack. . He drove his car into the back of a bus at 30 mph . So in my opinion yes it could have been the same as Lesley Newson .

[@billybonds4449]

There always has to be a scapegoat in disasters of this magnitude. The poor driver was vilified for causing this crash and his memory remains besmirched to this day. The Colonel's report should be taken with a large dose of salt with regard to 'Driver error' being a possible contributory factor to the cause of the crash

[@thepeckhampoet1909]

Very sad documentary, but I still don't agree with the suicide theory. The fact he had 200 pounds in his pocket that he had planned to buy his daughter a car with is a big one for me, looking at his picture and hearing interviews from his family my heart tells me the suicide idea has no grounds at all other then he died the way he did. I think it's not fair to speculate or assume especially when he's not here to answer for himself. I've seen one other documentary on the subject that was more based on trian crashes rather then this tradigy, but in that film this crash was mentioned along with some truck driver incidents that had similar evidence pointing to the driver just simply blacking out and going on auto pilot mode, almost like an outer body experience. Basically when you have done something so repetitive for so long your body can make reactions without thinking and you can literally lose time in your own thoughts and before you know it the job is done and you can't remember doing it. I've experienced something similar years ago when I was a night hospital porter, we would take empty trolleys to one department to the next and I remember on one occasion taking a trolley to be placed outside ccu when I arrived with the trolley I got talking to a nurse and after the conversation I turned back with the same trolley and took it back to where I got it only to be asked by my colleague "what are you doing with that, I thought you just took it to ccu," was only then that I'd realized what I had done. Small in scale, but put a train in my hands instead of a trolley, being tired and working nights it's easily done. Also in that same documentary I watched had one section where they focused on brain matter from truck drivers from similar crashes and they found a slight disturbance they may point to the black out pilot mode syndrome. I think I'd personally be more willing to point to that being a possible cause rather then a happy man just out of the blue decided to kill himself and others, I just don't buy it.

[@1962lp2h]

In 1975 these tunnels and stations must have all looked the same or similar, I'd probably end up in some sort of trance if I did this repetitive job especially tired, my mind wanders even when I'm watched the TV or a film, and the train was built in 1938 that's really pretty old even by 1975 standards, a tragic tragic accident.

[@superteacher1000]

37 years old is not that old for a train. Two lines nowadays have trains well in excess of 40 years in age,

[@forza223bowe5]

The age of the train is irrelevant

[@roisinreid1418]

I get the WGC to Moorgate every day, Drayton park always seems a dead station, just a station to change the current. I think I will take a moment to consider that it was the last station many passengers embarked from.

[@Richardsrailway]

Roisin Reid . If you look at the area where all the vegetation is on the right , that was where Drayton Park LT depot was , train 272 was maintained there , all that’s left is the buildings by the end walls

[@jasoneager5651]

Putting these two documentary films together is a very good illustration of how documentaries aren't unbiased, they are all about framing the narrative in a way that the filmmaker desires. Compare the treatment (esp. emotional) of the allegation that the driver was suicidal. In the first, it is immediately debunked. In the second, they can't debunk it forcefully because the "hero" of the documentary pushed that as his conclusion. So the person watching only the 2nd documentary would probably walk away with a much different conclusion than someone who just watched the 1st one, or had watched both of them.

[@robinblick9375]

Married 35 years? She looks more like 35 than say 55. Lovely woman.

[@tegwenhafparry7488]

Some form of PTSD, since Dunkirk, they weren't offered counselling back then were they

[@jacksugden8190]

I use that station on an almost daily/twice daily basis, the same two platforms, the actual platform where the train hit the wall, and still can’t make out how this accident occurred?.

[@Richardsrailway]

Jack Sugden nobody will truly know , my theory is Leslie newson had some sort of epilepsy that caused his brain to shut off momentarily . I don’t believe it’s suicide for one minute. This could of been prevented by LT at the time by implementing terminal protection by means of a approach controlled train stops . The chilling thing is as you’ve seen from watching the film , previously a serious of collisions had occurred and nothing was done to prevent another one . Most corporate companies would be done for manslaughter

[@roadwolf2]

TRIPLEVALVE62 THE DEPOT I agree with the epilepsy theory. I’ve had the condition myself and have been told I would just “switch off” and sit there staring

[@lolasmom5816]

I think a siezure is possible and i think tunnel vision is possible too. Ive experienced tunnel vision while driving. Its scary and I understand how it could lead to this. He wouldn't have even seen the wall.

[@forza223bowe5]

My dad, often falls asleep in front of screens and occasionally nodded off at the wheel too, it worry’s me

[@richardpotter712]

The main point is that there was no evidence to prove that the driver committed suicide. Lawrence Marks did his investigation to get some kind of closure and square things off in his own head. I feel for him. People must not forget that this was only a year after the Health and Safety at work act, so things have rightly changed for the better. Most deaths at work are caused by human error, so the H&S act has ensured that, were people have died, human error is taken out of the equation. The health and safety of people, is based on deaths or serious injuries, so things only get changed after incidents like Moorgate. The point was that if the driver had made an error, there should have been a system in place to stop the train. Nowadays if the driver was to overshoot a station, other employees are duty bound to report the incident. In 1975 Guards had no access to a brake handle, as they used to open and close the doors from a space within the carriage of a train. Only the driver knows why he didn`t stop at the platform. It wont be the first time that people are killed and there be no apparent reason or evidence to suggest a reason. Being a former firefighter, my full respects to the men and women of the London Fire brigade.

[@solcutta3661]

4 times by 8.42am..so how many times do these drivers go back and forth thru the day?

[@stephthestar90]

I only found out about the Moorgate disaster two years ago but from what I've read about it I think the driver must have had some kind of blackout or epileptic seizure? Would doctors in the 70s have been aware of epilepsy or the effects of it? It's also possible he went into some sort of trance.

[@Richardsrailway]

stephthestar90 quite possibly that could of been the cause , company medical in those days was not as thorough as it is now

[@stephthestar90]

TRIPLEVALVE62 THE DEPOT what did they test for in company medicals back then?

[@Richardsrailway]

stephthestar90 , hearing , colour blindness , eye test , heart and BP , standard medical which included also a physical. Les most likely had a form of epilepsy that went undetected , he was hit over the head some years before coming to the aid of a female passenger who was being mugged , he was a guard on the district line at the time , during his national service he was next to a battery gun that misfired and exploded that left him with permanent hearing loss in one ear .

[@dfuher968]

I get, that the guy needs closure over his dads death, but this persistence at taking any sliver of evidence to fit his belief, that it was the driver committing suicide and murdering 42 ppl doing it, while ignoring all the much more abundant evidence to the contrary, is so unfair. The poor man lost his life, just like the rest, and his poor family not only lost him, but must to this day live with despicable accusations and character assissination like this. Everything, that is listed as evidence for suicide, is either taken out of context, disproven or has more likely explanations. The medical explanation of a temporal lobe seizure is much more likely, the symptoms fit perfectly, it is very sudden from second to second, which also fits, and Newsons history gives strong support to this explanation. And every single person, who knew, and who interacted with him that day, gave evidence in complete contradiction of this suicide theory. Grieving for ur father is understandable, its been over 11 years, and I still grieve for my father. But the damage this irresponsible quest for vengeance against a dead man does to that mans reputation and to his poor family, when there just is not the facts to support it, is simply inexcusable. And to the ppl, who has jumped on the undiagnosed depression theory and claim, that depressed ppl do not care at all about taking others with them in death - as some1, who has suffered from depression for many years, I am deeply offended. First of all, there is absolutely zero evidence for this "theory", it is simply the irresponsible speculation of a psychologist, who never met Newsom, never spoke to any1, who knew Newsom, and is bringing forth some pet theory about depression due to erectile disfunction based on, what he admits, he doesnt even know, if its true, he calls it "supposedly". So unprofessional and irresponsible, he should have his licence revoked. Second, the vast majority of ppl suffering from depression are not suicidal. And, thirdly, let me state once and for all to all the ignorant morons, who do not know about depression - ur revolting claims, that depressed ppl would commit suicide and take a lot of ppl with them and not care at all, is not only ignorant, is not only offensive, it is dead wrong. The stigma, u in ur ignorance, place on ppl suffering from depression, is completely unwarranted, and u should be ashamed. Im sorry for the lady in the comments, whose husband committed suicide, but that does not make her an expert, nor any of the other armchair psychologists. Ur claims are as outlandish and disgusting, as the old claim in the Middle Ages, that all redhaired ppl were witches. Either educate urselves or stfu, I am so sick of being stigmatized, demeaned and condescended to by a bunch of superior feeling ignoramuses. And after that rant, I can only repeat - the facts all point to him NOT committing suicide, there are NO facts pointing to depression, there ARE several anecdotal facts pointing to undiagnosed diabetis due to previous head injury (several instances mentioned by his colleagues) and/or temporal lobe seizure. With the available facts, continuing to slander this poor dead man, as much a victim as the rest, and torture his family with these unsubstantiated allegations, is irresponsible and just plain mean.

[@Richardsrailway]

Dfuher D couldn’t agree more , If you’ve read my comments and thoughts initially from an operational point of view , the blame solely should by on LT for manslaughter. Because they knew of the potential for a collision from past identical incidents , Les did not receive the right training , only enough to deem him competent as a motorman at the time , his LT staff medical should of flagged up his previous incidences on the district line as a guard including the assault he received whilst defending a lone female passenger .

[@gregb6469]

Second report begins about the 24:50 mark.

[@calebscott3271]

One does feel that the Transcript stolen by Laurence Marks should be taken into a national archive of some sort. Its an important historical document.

[@nigelkthomas9501]

We’ll probably never really know for sure what happened that day. May not be relevant, but I always thought the driver, Mr. Newson, was a lot older than 56! He went to work after just six hours rest and no breakfast? That’s bad!

[@Muttleytech]

How much force does it take to keep the dead man's handle down? Could a sleeping person do it? Many questions.

[@Richardsrailway]

***** a reasonable amount .There is a spring inside the master controller that is attached to a latched pin that is connected to a sprung valve which in turn is connected to the train line air supply, thus a sleeping person would automatically drop the deadman causing an emergency brake application

[@stephenfreeth7593]

i was told a common practace was to put a heavy shopping bag hung on the lever to get hands free driving then this happend to one driver who had problems with the doors, he got out of the cab to kick the doors. the doors then closed after him kicking them then the train then left the station without the driver untill being tripped the passangers were safe i dont know what happend to the driver though i think the train went along with his job if this happend at moorgate a bag would have been found during the investigation i think the poor driver became ill and there was no back up to stop the train

[@elouisepayne9750]

Who is the journalist on the BBC Southeast film?

[@Richardsrailway]

Elouise Payne . John Stapleton

[@elouisepayne9750]

Very impressive for so young. I am US so I had to look him up. I recently ran across the Moorgate crash and have been reading about it. I am only very familar with the NYC subway cars. I have been looking at some videos of the 1938 tube stock on YT (amazing what one can find). What exactly is the duty of the guard on the train? And does the motorman's cab extend across the entire front of the car.? Am I right in reading somewhere -Wiki, I think-that there were different configurations of the car?

[@Richardsrailway]

Elouise Payne , in those days the job of the guard was to open and close the doors from the rear of the train at stations , once the starter signal was off or green at the correct time of departure he would close all the doors on the platform side of the train and give a single bell to the motorman up front who would move the train , also the guard would be there to apply the emergency brake handle at his position should the train fail to stop at a station . His job was also to act as motorman in emergency to drive the train at 5mph to the next station or depot should the driver become ill . The 1938 tube stock was the first type of train to have all its electrical equipment under the floor as opposed to a compartment behind the motorman . By 1975 the 38 stock was approximately just under forty years old but quite reliable,. My I personally suggest Richard Jones’s “ End of the line , the Moorgate disaster “ a truly accurate account based on facts and the people in question , not a media campaign to slander the driver and his family .

[@elouisepayne9750]

@@Richardsrailway Guard then is what we would call here in NYC a conductor. And just last night I found Richard Jones book on Kindle Unlimited and have downloaded it. I have seen on a couple of forums mention of a book by Sally Holloway "Moorgate, Anatomy of a Railway Disaster" and claim it is very accurate. However it was published in 1989 and now out of print, although I am curious as to why it is considered so accuate as no one elucidates. Anyhow thanks so much.

[@A_10_PaAng_111]

Survivor of Dunkirk? Post traumatic stress syndrome. Having a flashback maybe. Lt Col ex military man. Obviously a WW2 vet. Hes not going to say anything bad about the driver.

[@Nexus-ub4hs]

Potentially TBI (traumatic brain injury) exasperated by the attack when defending a woman being harassed, may have led to seizures that can be hard to notice.

[@gyrovague]

20.00 - one of the most backward and shocking statements i've heard. My general opinion on the crash is that he had things on his (tired?) mind coupled with the safety aspects e.g no auto stop at the end of the tunnel!

[@Richardsrailway]

I agree . Another theory is that Bob Harris the guard went to the rear cab and opened up the drivers brake valve isolating cock ( dbvic ) which would of rendered the brakes in the lead car useless

[@gyrovague]

Why would he do that? He looks quite nervous in the footage but i think any young rocker guy then might seem that way 'caught up' in this. Was he just behaving like the others in a sloppy work practice environment?

[@ajs41]

It is a stupid thing to say, but people were obsessed with saving money at that time, they thought it was morally right to save money more than anything else. I've known a few older people like that.

[@forevercomputing]

You can function on 6 hours sleep just fine. If you've been doing 6 hour sleeps for years, you deal with it easily.

[@ajs41]

If the driver was deliberately driving the train through the station it doesn't necessarily mean he was trying to crash the train, it could just have been that he momentarily lost concentration and thought he wasn't at the final stop of the journey. Then, of course, the question is why didn't he stop at this station anyway, since you normally stop at every station? There could have been yet another reason for that, so two mistakes combining together. For instance it could have been a combination of the following two factors: (a) he decided not to stop at this particular station for some reason that we don't know, for example because he thought it wasn't safe to stop due to something he'd seen as he approached the station (which was probably a mistake, since there wasn't anything in reality which fitted this explanation), and (b) at the same time he thought, for some reason, it was the second to last station rather than the last station due to a lapse in concentration. Those two factors working together would explain the crash - in fact the first one actually makes the second one more likely, due to distraction: ie, the fact that he thought he noticed something which meant he shouldn't stop at the station could have distracted him from realising it was indeed the final stop. For example: maybe he thought he'd seen something suspicious in the station, which would explain why he apparently accelerated to get out of the station (believing it not to be the final one on the line). I know that's a bit convoluted, but it's just an alternative explanation to the usual ones. I've noticed that quite often when one first thinks about an incident like this, there's a strong tendency to try to identify just ONE factor that was responsible, such as suicide, or heart attack, or mechanical failure, etc. Intuitively it feels right to put the blame on that single factor. But then you realise after a while that this is completely wrong, and that it's actually far more likely to be two, three, or even more factors combining at the same time to cause a chain reaction of cascading mistakes within a very short time period. It is odd, isn't it, how the single factor explanations just FEELS more compelling to begin with. I think suicide can almost certainly be ruled out, simply because it would have been impossible for anyone not to instinctively raise their hands just before the moment of impact if they knew what they were doing. So it was either a mistake by the driver who didn't realise he was driving into the wall, or he suffered something like a seizure or other medical condition just before the crash. Also, the end wall should have been painted a bright colour, not left black as if it were a real tunnel. It reminds me a bit of the Mount Erebus air crash in 1979 where the phenomenon known as "white out" meant that the pilots couldn't distinguish between clouds and the snowy white face of the mountain because they were exactly the same colour (or non-colour).

[@samgreen644]

What I don`t understand is why Driver Newson had Green signals approaching a dead end terminus ! Surely you should get a yellow for caution not a green !?

[@Richardsrailway]

Sam Green that's right , should be a repeater for the stops at the end of a terminus

[@EM-yk1dw]

The yellow before a terminal was one of the recommendations made after this collision. Furthermore timed trainstops were also installed to protect passenger terminal platforms on LT.

[@lolasmom5816]

I think it was a horrible accident on the part of the driver and an avoidable risk on the part of the officials. The officials dodged spending money on safety equipment and cut corners. They are happy to let the driver take the blame. Its absolutely asinine to say that they didnt realize the risk of trains coming to the end of a tunnel thats dark and not properly marked. It would be easy for a driver to lose track of where they are. He wouldn't have been able to see the wall.

[@paulmahy]

It is a very real possibility the train brakes were faulty, there was a train with faulty brakes, that morning, that was supposed to be going off service to the yard, but because of several staff being late , there were train changes that morning. If Mr. Newson was driving a train in which the brakes have failed, the description of him sitting upright, hands on the controls, staring straight ahead, could be spot on for someone who was suddenly confronted with a massive failure. It has been shown in trials and surveys, that if the driver of a car suddenly experiences this, he will tend to just press the brake harder hoping it will work, exactly the same for Mr. Newson. There are people who were working there that know about this and say the labour government at the time swept it under the carpet.

[@AgnostosGnostos]

They were cutting torches to cut the metals which deprived the area from oxygen. The oxygen levels become low and people in the front carriages suffocated.

[@Richardsrailway]

Achilleas Labrou the people in the front cars properly were already dead from crush injuries plus the humidity of the conditions . The cutting torches wouldn’t of really attributed to suffocation as the LFB would of had oxygen cylinders as well as acetylene tubes for cutting , not saying your comment is wrong but I think generally the air level was very limited if not at all . For sugar to ferment in the blood stream and into alcohol due to rapid decomposing in six days in that heat is somewhat of a clue

[@Nog311]

Don't forget this was 1975 - 40 years ago...medicine has come a very long way in those years. Reading TripLevalve62 comments it does sound like absence seizures. But in those days would it have been diagnosed.

[@Richardsrailway]

Nog311 correct . If this had happened today , it wouldn’t of simple as that why ? 1- terminal protection would apply the emergency brakes if the train was going to fast on the approach by means of a speed trip . 2- a full medical would of been implemented by management if staff are noticed to be not coherent . 3- Previous medical injuries due to an accident or incident would involve a follow up with a GP or consultant given possible further related issues . 4- management have a legal duty to fully train train operators and ensure that they know their road and train fully , Les never had the training properly , the basics were taught but the rest had to be learnt out on the job , today your tested thoroughly

[@The-Cat]

Look here Americans, REAL journalism at work here.

[@LondonTransportFanatic]

'Me, my dad, and Moorgate' aired in 2006?

[@Richardsrailway]

LondonTransportFanatic , think so ?, not sure, but sounds about right .

[@LondonTransportFanatic]

triplevalve metrocammell In your description, it says it aired in the 1990's.

[@Richardsrailway]

LondonTransportFanatic appologies, its actually 2005

[@AC-SlaUkr]

I hope the London Underground Ops Manager was fired after that interview. He has an appealing approach to safety on the railways especially referring tot the author of the earlier internal report as being drafted by an admin assistant who hadn't been with LU for 5 minutes.LU disregarded the safety recommendations despite the glaring inevitability of an accident of the type of Moorgate. It's ok to over-run a platform if you carry on to the next station, but to over run at a terminal end, you are in the wall (perhaps at great speed). As for the Colonel, he seems somewhat detached from the reality of the accident. Certainly doesn't appear objective.of course that may just be my opinion.

[@KentReynolds]

Andrew Chilton no.. You are right I think

[@WilliamSmith-mx6ze]

London Transport took the attitude that all the knowledge they needed to know was within the organisation and they didn't have to listen to anyone else; that the lowest teaboy in LT knew more than the greatest experts outside LT. That lasted til (and beyond) King's Cross; the report on that is damning in respect of LT's attitude to outside expertise.

[@airindiana]

No justification in spending money on accidents that haven’t happened. Ughh huh. When people reminisce about “the good old days” they forget how crap it could also be.

[@ROBERTSCOIN]

if the train fails to slow down coming into moorgate station then there should be a cut off power and all other dead end stations should be the same

[@Richardsrailway]

robert roberts as mentioned by myself and at the time , London Transport implemented terminal protection for trains entering a dead end terminus in terms of signaling

[@jupiter-8405]

Suicide seems very unlikely to me regardless of what some think, why would he deliberately cause all that pain and misery to people he didn't even know? How many people commit suicide in the workplace? Nobody around him said he was an oddball, there is no evidence just speculation.

[@Trid3nt861]

Seeing a speeding train and then next thing you know and hear..... BOOOOOM as you hear the front train cart and 2nd and the 3rd bend and crush with people inside. That is quite a terrifying scenario. The train driver mustve been crushed flat by the impact and speed and force.

[@stnicholas54]

The dead have neither voice nor defence.

[@davdski5935]

No one has alluded to the guards conversation that the driver said he felt he had come down with a cold and was feeling unwell. The presence of ETOH in blood postmortem higher than the other passengers can be attributed to his system dealing with an infective process in his liver as it tried to purge toxins produced by a cold or flu.

[@damiennota5446]

The transient global amnesia sounds very plausible plus was he having a flash back to Dunkirk

[@Richardsrailway]

Damien Nota , it’s quite possible, the amount of sugar he took in a single cup of tea was according to sources in Richard Jones’s book “ end of the line “ , was six . Four cups , on an empty stomach , possibly a fifth between trips , and then that sugar ferments in his body for six days when his body was recovered from the leading cab and hey presto you’ve got a large amount of alcohol in the blood system giving belief to someone who has been drunk

[@EM-yk1dw]

Newson was deep in thought, been up early all week, and didnt have time to shield his face when he realised the terrible mistake he had made.

[@Richardsrailway]

Edward Pearce quite possible , still doesn't account for bob Harris not pulling him up after realizing the train was going some into a terminal platform

[@EM-yk1dw]

Yes I cannot believe that he left his position. As an ex LT guard I would have not hesitated to pull a driver down if I was concerned about anything including excess speed.

[@Richardsrailway]

Edward Pearce I rest my case . The other comment I made was that it is possible Newsome realized he wasn't going to stop and overshoot so carry on to the next station and sort it out from there , but he ran out of railway

[@EM-yk1dw]

That is possible, the repetitive nature of the work. You go into auto pilot.

[@McIntyreBible]

16:29, an interesting analysis!

[@McIntyreBible]

28:47, the casualties of the Moorgate crash.

[@paulcowell7588]

It's only fair to say that in the 1970s there was some very unusual individuals working on the underground at that time...

[@Richardsrailway]

Paul Cowell yes there was ! ,

[@insertnamehere5146]

what's that supposed to mean? Driver Leslie Newsom has children and grandchildren alive who can read your comments. evidence? without it, you're talking out of your arseholes!

[@JB-ox7ib]

insert name here: totally agree!

[@forza223bowe5]

There is unusual individuals to this day, in every company as at least one

[@rapman5791]

Do a deep dive in any big company to this day, you will be horrified. I’ve worked for some of the largest and nationally known companies in the world performing safety sensitive functions. They have drug tests, background investigations and employees are vetted seriously. There are plenty of blokes and Sheila’s who you wouldn’t want picking up your garbage. What I’m getting at is the human condition doesn’t change. The same character traits that existed back then are still around today. Pedophiles, sexual deviants, thieves and all sorts of mouth breathers inhabit the cockpits, driving cages and offices of various workplaces today. Don’t think time has sorted out the human aspect of humans. There are employees who have no business being in the position they are in.

[@jessicamilestone4026]

I can't understand how the guard on the accident train survived!

[@Richardsrailway]

He was at the rear car , got up walked off the platform and left site ,

[@scottmckellar1157]

Another anniversary today.

[@cesvlc5211]

I don’t understand Laurence Mark’s affirmations. He’s clearly biased towards the deliberate act theory, like if that was better than a seizure or a sickness condition. I wonder what he would have fought for if his father was Newson instead. I’m not saying the suicide theory is not possible, I’m just being objective (I don’t have any link to people who perished in the crash, I’m not even from London), and the only thing I can say is that he didn’t find any concluding evidence to support his claims (in fact he didn’t find anything that was already known in the inquest). Last but not least, the way he approached the widow and the daughter is anything but ethical. He used them for the purpose of affirming something he cannot prove. From my humble point of view, we still don’t know what happened, and any of the theories are plausible.

[@Richardsrailway]

Good point . The truth of the matter is , Les had what was known today as a temporal lobe seizure of the brain which causes people to appear awake but vacant as the brain literally switches off in a form of epilepsy. A reliable source who was a driver for over forty years on the underground said at Baker street staff canteen , Les would often mentally nod off during his meal break mid fork of food paused in mid air staring into space . Les was deaf on one ear caused by a battery gun misfiring on a ship during his time in dunkirk in WW2, the shell made a dent in his tin helmet at the time , he was on his early career hit over the head whilst coming to the aid of a female passenger who was being assaulted on his train which resulted in Les being taken to hospital and then released the same day . Was this a ticking time bomb that went off that day in his brain ? The amount of sugar and milk that fermented in his body produced the same amount as an over the limit person with alcohol. He took SIX sugars in each cup of tea ! ! He had consumed at least four prior to taking train 272 on that last run to moorgate . Do the math . The train was not meant to be sent to Drayton park from Neasden, but should of and was due to be scrapped owing to several faults on it that could not be repaired or replaced owing to the 1938 stocks age and limited availability of parts . Instead it was sent from Neasden as a six car unit with no breaks on one car and a faulty deadman that did not apply the emergency breaks quick enough. The other piece of damming evidence is that London Transport knew about several previous collisions involving terminal stations or sidings , during WW2 a patent was applied for and approved by LT for a track level piece of equipment that would not clear an approach signal until the train slowed down enough to 5mph to activate the trainstop mechanism at track level to clear and lower thus allowing a slow approach controlled signaling system that was only implemented AFTER the crash . LT management LIED ! The unions and management knew about the sloppy maintenance of the 1938 stock at both Neasden and Drayton park depots where the records of that entire six car train mysteriously vanished on paper so nobody could see when each car was last inspected and what was done to it . Had the mentioned patent been installed at track level before 1975, all those on board train 272 would of lived including the driver . The guard was not at his position whereby he could of easily pulled his emergency handle and stopped the train as was his duty , but no, he was in the rear back cab fiddling with the controls already preparing it to save time when changing ends at moorgate . By the time he realized it was too late . Gordon hafter should of been given prison not an OBE . Why did he rush to check the brake pressure guage on the cars ? Because he knew . One of the cars had no brakes . Giving the operational feel that the brakes on the train were sluggish in operation. The train line air conduit on a 1938 tube stock train at the time were very thin copper pipes that allowed air to run along underneath each car for the trains braking system , they had an Achilles heal . . . .water built up inside from condensation which formed a sludge mixed with dirt and oil , this was regularly drained off at Morden or a major depot like say Neasden . The build up would of reduced the brake pressure allowance and impacted the performance, this was not recorded by either Drayton park or Neasden train maintenance. Lawrence marks was only out to make a name for himself as a young journalist at the time , he had a turbulent relationship with his father and the way in which he hounded the Newsons was bang out of order . For many decades after his late wife Helen had to live with much rejection and resentment from others . Les did not cause that accident on purpose . Contact and visit jdbbooklets.org.uk for a copy of “ Moorgate the truth “ by David Banks. Who has spent years researching factual and proven evidence about what happened and what has been covered up by LT. In 2051 the report will be released to the public , what report ? . What is being hidden that at the time in 1975 was printed in a report and in the papers ? To add insult to injury a few days after the crash , LT started to run trains again on that line using the same rolling stock and the train identification number 272 . What a sickening act to those who lost their lives that day , children who would wait for the front door to open for mum or dad to come home into their arms with maybe sweets or a treat , that front door instead was silent . For the LFB and those who gave so much rescue and efforts to help those affected that day .The guard lives in Australia. He should be brought back to the UK and stand in a UK trial for manslaughter. Les should be officially pardoned by the king and by the powers that be today to clear his name and that of his dear family .

[@cesvlc5211]

Thank you very much, I didn’t know that information! It makes a lot of sense.

[@Richardsrailway]

@@cesvlc5211 the truth needs to be told and a campaign needs to be started to clear Les . That man went to his grave thinking it was his fault . The maintenance staff at Neasden fiddled the maintenance turns on the 38’s , signing off work that was never done . Bits being robbed from them as either souvenirs or sold to the scrap man . The 1938 stock was unique in that it had in the cab a piece of equipment that had liquid mercury inside it . This played a vital role in adjusting the trains braking performance in relation to a series of electrical valves that control how much air was applied via the brake handle to the rest of the train . If the mercury wasn’t set right or wired incorrectly, the train would have little or no service brake . It happened to a very good friend of mine who in the 70’s was doing a shunt move on the Bakerloo line at willesden green and realized he had no brakes and had to drop the lot ( drivers slang for letting go of the deadman’s handle ) . It was revealed that the train’s mercury retardation control had been adjusted incorrectly. The type of train he was driving . 1938 tube stock . Taken out of Neasden originally.

[@ronzomac6246]

Just because the man had sexual problems , he takes other people with him. And what the fuck is that being told to the media.. That's bullshit. I used to drive buses and had a few problems with drugs, yes heroin and there is was a lot like me. It's not so bad now, especially since the drug testing came in but even then we kept the bottles of urine down our jokey shorts. But then they brought in mouth swabs about 6/7years ago so no drugs now. I agree 100% with them. I never had a catch or even went through a speed trap camera but I was still wrong. First bus didn't want the mouth swabs tests. Ask them under freedom of information acts. That's why they and all bus operators, especially in London can't get the staff after the new tests come in even though the bus operators are paying up front for the training and making it free if you stay for a few years service. I was never mad with drugs even though I was a heroin addict it but after a while it just makes you be normal. I knew drivers on 'E' come and all sorts of shit and most of them never had an accident. Oh well, let's chase that dragon.

[@breeze1472]

very sad but why is htere a blind tunnel? and i hope they dont exist today

[@Richardsrailway]

breeze 147 . The tunnel in question is still in situ and in use to this day , however it’s well protected by a speed trip and red illuminated stop lights , so it’s not really blind as such , but at the time it was poorly lit and indicated

[@sarahbryant8768]

It's clear that something went wrong in his mind in a biological rather than psychological sense. Knowing more now about the working about the brain, it seems more likely to the phasing out of the more conscious part of the brain, allowing the autonomous system to carry on. The Deadman's handle being kept in the drive position. He had only been a driver for a year. And who commits suicide with 200 pounds in their pocket to buy a car for their daughter?

[@Richardsrailway]

My belief is Les as I’ve said , had some sort of epileptic seizure and sudden death syndrome . It couldn’t be proved as there was nothing left of his brain to do an autopsy given the fact that an 8 foot cab was compressed into 2 feet !

[@McIntyreBible]

20:04, the interviewer is really hounding the Chief Operating Manager!

[@jessicamilestone4026]

If at the time of the crash, the concrete wall was painted black, then no wonder the accident happened.

[@craftyajay9495]

OPERATION “Blame-the-dead-Guy” . . . Some things rarely change.

[@joeletaxi821]

It's simple. Mechanical error without any doubt. Imagine the payout had London Underground accepted responsibility. Imagine the heads that would have rolled. No, no, no. This was driver error. After all, he's dead ain't he? Blaming the poor driver is despicable but common practice back then. This was mechanical error but they were never going to admit it. Common sense tells us.

[@philipmcdonagh1094]

Usual driver,pilot or captain dies or the plane or boat goes missing its their fault until otherwise proven. Example Air France there was all kind of stories until the plane was found, that did turn out to be pilot error, mind you sensors on a modern plane shouldn't freeze up, but it wasn't seaside or a pissed off employee.

[@Richardsrailway]

If terminal protection was in place BEFORE the incident, it would of never happened , the previous incidents were an omen that LT should of put those measures in place .

[@Nacho-Mamma]

This is one of the best examples of blind focus investigating. Meaning, they were so determined to blame the driver, they utterly refused to investigate THE TRUTH! They reported him as being a suicidal alcoholic, who threw the train into full throttle. And, forever destroying whatever good standing he had in his community. Here is what they missed! Finding the high alcohol content in his system, they immediately concluded he had been drinking. But, they failed to mention that alcoholic gasses build up in your system during traumatic stress. This is a natural occurrence that happens to everyone. The gas is released through the gallbladder. An example would be the Chicago ER incident in 2015, when the female was brought in after a car accident. When they took her into surgery, the initial incision caused the release of the built up gas in her system, which actually had a chemical/ammonia scent, which caused several in the operating room to either pass out or become violently ill & vomiting. When he was examined, they failed to examine his heart! He had a heart attack and was already dead before he even entered the station tunnel! They failed to mention that they had to break his fingers to release his grip on the throttle! Now, I’m in no way making light of this tragic accident. But, that’s EXACTLY what it was...AN ACCIDENT! It claimed so many innocent lives, including the driver! The REAL cause was shoddy investigation & a media that falsely pointed the finder of fault directly a the driver, BEFORE ANYONE EVER KNEW WHAT HAPPENED! Sadly, nearly 50 years have passed, and nothing has changed. Investigators use their blind focus method and the media places the blame before even knowing what really happened! Truly disgusting!

[@nkt1]

"I can see no reason why London Transport should have anticipated an accident of this type to occur. And certainly, there is no justification for spending money to prevent accidents that haven't happened" What absolute nonsense. They couldn't anticipate a driver being inattentive, or becoming incapacitated while driving, literally anywhere on the network? Something bad has to happen before efforts are made to prevent it happening again?

[@Richardsrailway]

nkt1 it’s a bad culture statement for the time but it sadly happened and In some aspects today still goes on .

[@nkt1]

@@Richardsrailway True. This, and several other UK disasters (Summerland, Zeebrugge, King's Cross, Piper Alpha, Clapham, Marchioness etc.) finally changed things for the better.

[@daleyseaton9426]

I agree with others, it wasn't suicide and caused great pain to his wife and family. I've always felt it was possible he had a absence seizure. It is when you zone out for a brief period of time, the medical knowledge at the time was basic compared to what we know now. It angers me that humans error is applied to loosely at times.

[@Richardsrailway]

It was and still is a criminal act that the Newsons were hounded by the press and shouldered the blame when it should have been London transport because they could have prevented the collision. Train 272 should not of been even allowed out on a running road as it was due to be scrapped at Neasden as a six car unit , yet it mysteriously was transferred from Neasden to Drayton park depot with no record on paper of the transfer or a history of maintenance on each car !

[@daleyseaton9426]

@@Richardsrailway I know what the newsons went through was despicable. I found it interesting that no one mentions it in the report that it was a 38 stock train, whilst overall they worked well by 75 they were ready for scrapping. The 70s were notorious for tfl not investing in it's infrastructure, it's 2024 and the 73 stock is still in service and it's 51 years old. He most likely had a seizure and didn't know what was going on. I suffer with them and theirs been cases where I'm missing 15 minutes because of them. Why was the tunnel wall painted black, they used the driver as a scapegoat so London underground could save face. I hope Mr newsons and his wife were reunited when she passed, imagine talking about his impotence as a possible cause he was 56.

[@simongleaden2864]

18:18 smoking in class! A different time altogether!

[@insertnamehere5146]

I wonder if tube drivers have brain scans and are checked for epilepsy and drugs regularly even today? I don't know and a genuine question without any cynicism

[@EM.1]

@insert name here not in every case the epilepsy is visible on the MRI, and it really depends on which type and power the MRI machines have, there are different types of epilepsy some cases are resistant to the pharmaceuticals, the only effect of the pharmaceuticals in those cases is to lower the average number of seizures and their strength. Lack of sleep is a factor that rise the risk of seizures, epileptic are supposed to sleep at least 10 hours, to lower the risk for their brain to go on electricity hyperactivity aka seizures. The pharmaceuticals have a half-life which is the pitch of effects of the pharmaceuticals, then after the half-life the effects slowly decrease in efficiency till the end of the life, so the complete inactivity on the brain of the pharmaceuticals, but in the blood test the pharmaceuticals is still present, especially for chronic patients that has took the same epilepsy pharmaceuticals for a long time span. To check for epilepsy medication there’s the need to know which pharmaceuticals are take by the patient, there’s no test like the toxicology blood test, and there’re more than 70 types of different pharmaceuticals some are not even possible to be blood tested, because for the modern pharmaceuticals there’s no blood test because the dose is calculated on the weight and on the age span, not on the blood level of dosage and age. Example the oxcarbazepine has a half-life of 12 hours but a life of 24, and it can still be detected in the blood after a week but having no effects on the brain. In fact the blood test to check the dosage is taken before assuming the pharmaceuticals of the following assumption time, but on the previous dose assumed. So the main problems are: is the person epilepsy resistant to pharmaceuticals, if yes is not even issued a driver license, is the person actually assuming every time the pharmaceuticals? Also, is it a chronic condition, or it’s an epileptic seizure of the second type, the ones that appears for a month or so without any warning signs, and disappear by itself after such time? In the Moorgate case he wasn’t diagnosed as epileptic, so he wasn’t under pharmaceuticals which trigger a storm of seizures, if it’s a chronic condition. Some people manifest epilepsy for like a couple of months, without being epileptic, it’s a rare and extremely uncommon phenomenon, and at today it’s believed to be usually stress related and sleep deprivation related. It could be the Moorgate case, because the driver has no previous history of seizures. At today in US at least there is no regulations for train conductors or engineers to have no pharmaceuticals assumptions, I suppose it’s the same for the UK. Obviously it’s made a toxicology test for alcohol or drugs which disqualify automatically the candidates, but for pharmaceuticals is different there’s no specific test that could check them as range of different types of pharmaceuticals, all in one. If you are interested or have more questions I’m happy to reply you feel free to ask.

[@EM.1]

@insert name here in the pinned comment there’s reference to the driver staring blankly at some point during the meal with the meal still in his hands and others similar phenomenon, those are not seizures, those are epileptic absences, more difficult to detect and diagnose than the seizures, but less deadly in epilepsy terms, because a storm of uncontrolled complete seizures cause an heart attack after a couple of days without pharmaceuticals, but absence don’t cause that, the brain simply freeze and the subject stop having control of its movement and has no awareness, after the absence the subject has no memory of what happened during the absence. They could be short like a minute or last like two hours. Imagine the absence like activating the night mode on the phone.

[@lolasmom5816]

If u have silent siezures you can go a while and not realize youre having them. Test would only find them during an active seizure

[@EM.1]

@Ashley Galyean yes especially because “epileptic absence” usually leaves the person unconscious, of having an absence the brain basically froze, and the person has no memory or acknowledgement of what happened before. Same for partial seizures if the epileptic area is extremely restricted and deep in the white matter, the person remains conscious and know that is having a seizure, but the superficial EEG can’t detect the seizures while ongoing, to detect those small but deep seizures there’s the need of intracranial EEG, a procedure that need a surgery to drill into the skull microscopic holes where position the electrodes fixed in position by a osteotomy screw, one for electrodes, usually around 18/22 electrodes are positioned. It’s a pretty new procedure for mappings the area that gave the seizures, in order to surgically remove it if possible.

[@genmanion2389]

i don't like this guys tone

[@Richardsrailway]

Which guy ?

[@Highland_Moo]

Alcohol was due to chemical change due to the length of time between the crash and the driver’s body being removed and sent for autopsy. He did not commit suicide and was not drunk, poor soul didn’t know what was going on - temporal lobe seizure.

[@TreyForLife1]

it very well could have been sleep deprivation

[@margaretbanks8969]

People have been known to be convicted for driving the morning after a party. It can be still in your blood. Could this explain the alcohol in drivers blood.

[@margaretbanks8969]

He may not have realised it was still in his blood.

[@tenacious3911]

I'm also of the opinion the driver killed himself. While it may be unbelievable that a suicidal person would decide to take their life and the lives of many others with them, the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 demonstrates that such things do happen. Depression was not something people talked about then, it was something you bottled up and kept hidden from sight, so its entirely possible that his outward behaviour was normal while he was battling severe depression inside. It was probably a spur of the moment thing, "Why don't I just end it all now?", and instead of trying to repress the thought, he kept his hand firmly on the dead man's handle and let the train smash into the wall.

[@wink1eafc774]

Well that theory of suicide as been disproved time and time again, He had about £250 in his pocket which in the 70s was a large some of money and going to buy his daughter a car after his shift and that doesn't sound like person who was complicating suicide ... A few theories was that he didn't realise what station he was in, It was claimed he was thought he travelling through Old street which used closed on Sundays and drivers were able to travel through them without stopping... and another theory was that he had a severe temporal lobe seizure and he had no idea what he was doing which would explain why he had one his hand on the dead man switch and other on the break also there was reports of seeing the driver sitting up rigidly and staring straight a head before the crash but not responding to any one

[@tenacious3911]

Its not possible to say "disproven", because he isn't here to ask. The investigators at the time couldn't come to a conclusion because he left no written or verbal record of suicidal thoughts. As for forgetting which station it was, I'm sure he would have done -something- when he realised it was a dead end, at least releasing the dead man's handle even if it was in vain. People with suicidal thoughts don't always behave as you would expect them to, particularly at the time in a society where mental illness was a taboo subject, its entirely possible that he could continue his daily business; talking to colleagues and drawing money from the bank etc. while still in the depths of despair. This is my personal opinion so its all conjecture. But I have known one depressed person who gave up driving a car because there had been times where they felt despair at the wheel and contemplated deliberately crashing and felt they could no longer trust themselves.

[@ajs41]

If it was suicide he would have instinctively raised his arms and hands a split second before impact. It would be impossible not to do this if you knew what was going to happen.

[@Saucyakld]

No, I don't believe it!

[@opeydopeykenobi6517]

@TheLCNW What about the 59 tube stock ? Did that have head lights on them ?

[@awilderireland]

"He was an Administrative Trainee." Repeat. Talk about discrediting him. Pathetic. We can't just change things. We've been doing things this way for years. The poor Driver's family. I read elsewhere they were harassed. Crap through the letterbox etc. It was just a comment so I can't stand behind it. But regardless the press weren't holding back! The drunk driver and even more so the suicide theories seem extremely far fetched to put it mildly. He was about to buy his Daughter a car! Maybe he had a medical mishap. Perhaps he was confused. Or in spite of the presented evidence it was a mechanical failure after all. We will never know. Poor man and his family. And of course all of those who were there and those who had to attend the scene. And all of their families.

[@Richardsrailway]

My friend has written an in depth book that has many questions answered about what happened , and what could of been implemented by LT . It’s called “ Moorgate the truth “ , if you like a copy you can email him directly at [e-mail] , he will gladly sell you a copy , it’s worth a read !

[@Steven_Rowe]

lets assume the driver did suicide, why would he take strangers with him. why nor simple down a whole bottle of scotch and fall in front of a train????? what ever happen its really sad to say the very least

[@ajs41]

It couldn't have been suicide IMO, because he didn't raise his hands before impact, which would be impossible not to do.

[@ajs41]

@Sarah Milo Agree.

[@fetchstixRHD]

There have been incidents where people have apparently committed suicide while taking other people with them (in aircraft at least), but there was generally quite a lot of evidence to suggest a motivation as to why. There isn’t much evidence that supports that theory here in my opinion

[@forza223bowe5]

Happened before, remember germanwings which flew into the alps?

[@simongleaden2864]

7:49 Wow! She's got nice hair. I wish she'd turn around so we could see if her face is equally attractive!

[@Allimacdee1]

That's just creepy.