Morality Is OBJECTIVE | Dr Frank Turek

Dr Turek emphasises that the basis of morality is God.
Dr. Frank Turek is President of CrossExamined.org, where he presents powerful and entertaining evidence for Christianity at churches, high schools, and secular college campuses. Frank is a widely featured guest in the media as a leading apologetics expert and cultural commentator. Frank hosts an hour-long weekly TV program called I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. He is also The award-winning author or coauthor of four books: Stealing From God: Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case, I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist, Correct, Not Politically Correct and Legislating Morality.
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[@mommasbigboy8656]

If God commanded someone to eat a baby would that person be morally wrong to follow that command?

[@tobertcordless2491]

Yes, because God would never command such an act. You're putting God into a box and then begging the question

[@mommasbigboy8656]

@@tobertcordless2491 God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his own son to him. Was Abraham morally wrong for following Gods orders?

[@tobertcordless2491]

@@mommasbigboy8656 Look, I'm glad you can read it but I can't help you understand it. Yes it's immoral. But it was a test if faith. Not a test of morality. Hence, bringing up Abraham and his son Issac into a discussion of morality makes no sense. You're trying to compare apples to oranges

[@mommasbigboy8656]

@@tobertcordless2491 Abraham was immoral for following Gods commands? I thought God was all moral?

[@tobertcordless2491]

@@mommasbigboy8656 No, murder is immoral. Just like Adam and Eve, Abraham's faith was tested. God stopped this immoral act from taking place by telling Abraham to stop. You would know that, had you read the rest of the passage. Also, I fail to see how God is this immoral monster you're trying to make Him out to be, considering He died on a cross to forgive us.

[@jrcuartz1829]

Frank was already bodybagged by Paulogia on this. 🤦.moral objectivism is and will never be demonstrated effectively (because it never existed) but moral subjectivism and relativism are sooooo obvious, demonstrating it is really easier than rocket science or creating a robot. morality is based on 4 justifications with varying degrees of subjectivity 1.) changing circumstances/scenarios - evolution, famine (or lack thereof) diseases (or absence of), etc. 2.) detrimental/beneficial dynamic - what's best for humanity's well-being (some people have moral values that are beneficial only to their own or their kind's wellbeing) 3.) consensus/general agreement - based on population of adherents and dissidents 4.) cultural/belief - includes political, religious, and what's currently the norm in your country or location all these four have subjectivity on them and since objectivity is the absence of subjective components, morality starts as subjective and then becomes relative as the population of adherents grow. i challenge everyone, including you @biblical dhiman, to refute this, or create moral values outside of these four reasoning. i am telling you, YOU. WILL. FAIL.

[@T_J_]

More lame arguments from Turek. My morality is based on well-being. Generally speaking, that which increases well-being is moral; that which decreases well-being is immoral. If Person A gr@pes Person B, Person B's well-being has been decreased. Therefore, Person A's action was immoral. How have I not justified that Person A's action is immoral?

[@kevinlee5753]

You haven't because you would first need to explain why well being is good to begin with.

[@T_J_]

@@kevinlee5753 Lol, the big clue's in the phrase 𝘄𝗲𝗹𝗹-being itself. If you need further explanation, I suggest you go ask someone else.

[@kevinlee5753]

@@T_J_ well the way you're stating it makes it seem as if you're assuming your opinion is an objective moral statement at the beginning but if the question makes you uncomfortable I can always ask someone else.

[@T_J_]

@@kevinlee5753 Lol, I'm glad you feel you said something worthwhile. Off you pop, then.

[@T_J_]

@@kevinlee5753 Of course it's objective! It's demonstrably true that being gr@ped decreases a person's well-being. What about that do you disagree with, buddy?

[@T_J_]

A being that performs an action is a subject. Your god, supposedly, performs actions, right? 𝗬𝗲𝘀. Then it is a subject. The thoughts of a subject are 𝘯𝘦𝘤𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘭𝘺 subjective. Now you know that objective morality is a myth 😊 And you're welcome.

[@tobertcordless2491]

You're putting God into a box and then begging the question.

[@BiblicalDhiman]

@T_J_, Could you please explain "A being that performs an action is a subject"?

[@T_J_]

@@tobertcordless2491 Wrong. This is a basic construct of language and a logical thought process. Your god is supposed to be a thinking agent, therefore it is performing an action. Because it's performing an action it can't be an object. It is 𝘯𝘦𝘤𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘭𝘺 a subject. What about that don't you understand?

[@T_J_]

@@BiblicalDhiman A subject performs an action. An object only receives an action eg a ball is thrown, it cannot throw itself. Thinking, creating, speaking, throwing, etc are all performances of actions. Do you think your god is an object? Or: How is your god 𝘯𝘰𝘵 a subject?

[@tobertcordless2491]

@@T_J_ Again, you're putting God into a box. Furthermore, you're spouting nonsense. I've re read your statement 5 times now, and nothing about that correlates. The philosophical definition of object is: a thing external to the thinking mind or subject. God would be an object. The philosophical definition of subject is: a thinking or feeling entity; the conscious mind; the ego, especially as opposed to anything external to the mind. And the logic definition: part of a proposition about which a statement is made. All of which apply to God. Also, are you completely disregarding Jesus?