More Game Essence Means Less Broad Appeal [Game Essence]

[@WhoIsSirChasm]

Honestly, if beating a demonic overlord ended with him saying "have a gumdrop, kid" I wouldn't even complain.

[@laggalot1012]

I've been watching a lot of people play Pikmin 4 lately, and it struck me how different the perception of threat is from the same enemies, from person to person. Some enemies are completely trivialised by some players without them even needing to think hard about it, while other players lose like half (or more) of their Pikmin trying to fight it, often making it harder due to their own caution. Difficulty gets viewed very, very differently depending on who you ask. People forget that sometimes when it becomes topic of discussion.

[@Ichigo111293]

It’s true. I found Pikmin 4 to be extremely easy due to Oatchi being far too OP among other things resulting in me wishing for a harder difficulty mode to be added at some point. However I’ve seen people have the hardest time with the game as well somehow.

[@MisterHeroman]

That's called skill and IQ.

[@jacksonlovesnintendo]

Yeah it's funny you bring that up. My girlfriend is a pretty casual gamer, but for whatever reason she REALLY latched onto Pikmin 3. Pikmin 4 however, is a bit too complicated for her to really enjoy it. Meanwhile, I absolutely loved all of the added layers of depth that P4 introduced despite funnily enough thinking the game is actually more beginner-friendly than P3.

[@lackryx4166]

This is particularly well showcased by dark souls bosses. I've seen A LOT of dark souls LP over the years (one of my hobby was watching them since I love the game) and what bosses people will struggle against the most changes a bit everytime. There's a "baseline" objective difficulty for sure. Everyone struggles to some extent against Orstein and Smough. But the same boss can be a cakewalk or a threat even for similarly skilled and geared players depending on their playstyle. Some people deal well with reaction dodge but can't predict repeated pattern, others can't react at all but get good at playing around bosses repeated pattern like a turn by turn rpg. Some player like big enemies, other smaller. Etc...

[@timestopMachinist]

i think it's neat how you dont actually need to fly most of the time in kirby. most jumps can be made normally, so you can challenge yourself by just choosing not to fly at all. flying also kills momentum, so it feels like maintaining speed is its own reward for setting harder rules for yourself

[@timestopMachinist]

oh yeah, the same is true for the dodge roll in forgotten land, the newest game. i found it kind of trivializes most enemies and encounters because of how safe and easy to use it is, but if you choose not to use it, you can still dodge attacks, so it's an easy way to increase the difficulty

[@_G.C]

Also in earlier games like super star and amazing mirror, your jump is really high so it's less of a reason to use it

[@ED-gw9rg]

Higher speed = higher risk of running INTO something! Add in the Abilities' dash attacks and it's a very engaging risk/reward system with 3 different speed/safety tiers: Flying - CRAZY high safety...But sleep-inducing speed. Normal - A good balance of both. Use attacks to dispatch enemies! Dash Dash Revolution - very, very fast! Be careful with those invulnerability frames!

[@Chadius]

Also some of the more powerful abilities are extremely risky. Super Star has a lot of "grab" attacks where you have to start at point blank, but Kirby is invincible during the grab and deals high damage to anything he touches. So the fastest runs involve grabbing a star and slamming it into the boss repeatedly. Or Flip Hammer since it 2-shots every boss (assuming they don't hit Kirby while he's charging up)

[@4Wilko]

I noted the momentum aspect of dashing vs flying back in the day and made sure to stick to dashing as much as possible when doing time trials for Nightmare in Dreamland.

[@Bladebrent]

Its extremely easy to forget what its like to play a game when you're Brand new to it, or even just gaming in general. I watched a video where someone didnt know you could use the mouse to TURN in Portal. Sometimes something really easy for you is an extreme challenge for new players and im glad Sakurai's bringing that up in a video like this. Lets be honest, most people who'd watch these videos are probably familiar enough with games that they might not realize how much they take for granted.

[@TaliesinMyrddin]

Kirby was far from my first game, but when I tried the one he showed in the video I found it difficult to progress simply because I didn't know how I was supposed to progress through the level - doors didn't seem to take me further into the level, and eventually I wound up going in circles so I gave up. I could do the platforming and the combat easy enough, but the layout was throwing me for a loop. Even experienced gamers can have difficulty with a new genre, though the experience would be even worse for first-time gamers. I definitely think difficulty options are good.

[@ElTaitronAnim]

@@TaliesinMyrddin Do you mean you didn't get past the first section of the first level? Did you not think to simply continue toward the right, and touch the star at the end of the section? I don't ask to mock, I'm genuinely curious.

[@ozzi9816]

One of the nice and interesting side effects of the games industry getting bigger over the years is that extremely niche titles with a big learning curve that probably couldn’t exist just 20 years ago can attract a fanbase that is more than willing to sit through the steep learning curve, and that fanbase can be big enough to keep an indie group or even small AA team going. Of course, casual games still have their place, but I think that’s nice

[@DragonReploidZero2]

One thing that came to mind about Kirby's dream land and most kirby games that came after is that they all have an optional mode where the difficulty is fine tuned for those wanting a challenge. I think this is a reason why kirby as a series maintains such a loyal fanbase of casual and hardcore players alike! The games are a pleasant ride but can and will challenge the player if they so wished.

[@waalew5336]

Kinda like Kirby himself. He's a friendly little dude who usually just wants to take it easy and have some cake, but if challenged, he can take down even the toughest of opponents.

[@shawnheatherly]

I'm glad he touched on how difficulty varies from person to person, it's important to remember that some players will be playing X type of game as their first game.

[@BigKlingy]

The brilliance of Kirby, to me, is that it's really as easy or as hard as the player wants it to be. You can fly over everything, or you can try fighting. You can focus on specific Copy Abilities (which in newer entries are practically separate games in their own right), or none at all. And getting 100% usually isn't trivial, there's a lot of hidden secrets in levels and if you want to go for the True Arena... hoo boy. I don't play a lot of Kirby games, but Planet Robobot was an interesting experience, as the main game was a fairly light experience but the True Arena was heart-pounding, and the satisfaction I felt when I actually won was huge... even if I had to cheese it with Archer's invincibility. As a big Fire Emblem fan, I'm well aware of "more essence means less broad appeal". Three Houses was a game with a lot of broad appeal for its story and characters, but its strategy never satisfied me, while I instantly fell in love with Engage's gameplay but it didn't reach as wide an audience. What can happen is that the more "hardcore" entries can be re-discovered by newer fans once they get more experience. For example, I HATED Binding Blade (the one with Roy) the first time I played it, when I was a teenager and fresh off of the more accessible Blazing Blade (just "Fire Emblem" at the time). I went back to it in 2021 and was surprised at how good the gameplay was and how well-designed and balanced the maps were (ambush-spawning reinforcements are my one strike against it), and now I see why so many people like it.

[@ThePatchUniverse]

I thought your comment was interesting and wanted to respond. I had never heard of game essence before but it was a great video. The example of Kirby is great, and what you say about it as well. I've only played Forgotten World so far and find the game to be so charming that despite not being my fabourite game ever, I often want to revisit it too. The game is fairly easy but I've already noticed how hard it is to reach 100% and some specific challenges are pretty hard actually and can be quite a lot of fun. Now that I understand with what philosophy Kirby was created, I even have more respect for it. I really liked your example on Fire Emblem. I had never played a Fire Emblem game before but Three Houses was my first and because of the story and characters, it became one of my favourite games of all time. I actually didn't think any game could bring back the magic I had felt playing some games in my teenage years in the 2000s, but this game really managed to achieve that. However, I can understand how a hard-core strategy RPG fan might not find the core gameplay that satisfying, I loved it but it was fairly simple. I played Triangle Strategy and realized how much deeper the strategy elements were in battles. I must say I was really disappointed by Engage because of the story and characters, but yes, again, the core gameplay was better than Three Houses. Now, I really want to discover other Fire Emblem games, I hope they can manage to bring both the qualities of TH and Engage or the other games you mentioned, together.

[@Chadius]

@@ThePatchUniverse Definitely try out the Game Boy Advance era (the one with Roy, "Fire Emblem", and the Sacred Stones). Permadeath (aka Classic Mode) is the only mode, but you get a lot of plot and character development if you build supports. Classic Mode was a tough pill to swallow and turned off many players from even trying, so it was good for Fire Emblem Awakening to make it optional.

[@ThePatchUniverse]

@Chadius Oh yes, unfortunately I don't have the GBA anymore. I might try some on the NSO actually. It's funny because I played Three Houses with permadeath the first time then turned it off for my other playthroughs. I'm actually waiting for the next entries to be released, I know we will have renakes but I can't wait to see what the next original title will be.

[@FeeshieBoi]

If you enjoyed The Binding Blade, I'd recommend trying Thracia 776 next. Thracia is a rather complex game, but unlike Binding Blade, many of its difficult points can be neutralised with the right gear and strategy.

[@leftyfourguns]

This is why Nintendo is still the gaming standard 40 years after their first game product. They've never forgotten about the new players and have remained the ambassadors of gaming, always welcoming newcomers and expanding the audience. Sakurai explains it so succinctly with his "game essence" concept. But there's still some "secret sauce" in there. Kirby games ooze Kirby essence but are still so engaging and inviting to new players. Even for experienced players, blowing through a Kirby game in an evening is still fun.

[@shooshiwhooshi8736]

Sakurai spitting facts throughout the whole video

[@Kabula_Queen]

Kirby was a very important game in my development as a player. Since I often took a back seat to my brother, it wasn't until I received a Gameboy with a copy of Kirby's Dreamland that I truly beat a game on my own. I also beat and enjoyed the tougher extra mode. Now I love and can play games like Sekiro and Dark Souls, haha. It's all thanks to Kirby and Mario, but especially Kirby for me. The industry needs games like Kirby. With Kirby, we can reach new heights in skill and experiences.

[@Leopez02]

Kirby is one of first videogames on Nintendo's history and it's important for me too, Kirby is one of best videogame series and Kirby is so cute 😊

[@grackleking6413]

I love this story. I’m glad you’ve had a happy gaming life 🌟

[@Giroxerog07]

One of the reasons I'm still a gamer at my almost 40's is because I played Kirby's Dreamland when I was very young, so it helped me understand that I could in fact play, enjoy and finish games (unlike the Super Mario Bros. which only my father could finish) so thank you very much Sakurai san, for thinking about the first timers!

[@ZullietheWitch]

It's interesting to look back and see all the influence the struggle between game essence and broad appeal has had on the gaming industry. Part of what led to the success of Demon's Souls, and later Dark Souls, was that, at the time they were released, major studios had been on an extreme trend of prioritizing broad appeal to the detriment of game essence. Many games of the era were cloyingly cautious, with all sorts of hand-holding and railguards to make sure players never got lost or failed, but like an overbearing chaperone, it kept people from the joy of overcoming challenges and discovering things for themselves. FromSoftware releasing Demon's Souls as the antithesis of that trend provided a much needed proponent for the return of titles that prioritized game essence, proving that developers don't have to court every audience to be successful. However, that trend towards broad appeal was almost certainly a reaction to the strong initial trend towards high game essence, and as a result, high difficulty, that both arcade games and home consoles focused on. Many potential players probably lost interest in gaming when the only games they had available proved too much of a wall for them to overcome, so bringing that wall down was necessary for the expansion of the gaming audience. We couldn't have had a mainstream success with titles like Dark Souls if the mainstream had been dammed away from gaming the whole time. Exploring the limits of both extremes has been a valuable part of the maturation of videogame development.

[@RobVespa]

Yes, this is true in all mediums. Often the more focused a project is, the smaller, but more passionate, those who like it are. Occasionally, things blow up or does something in a way that results in everyone scrambling to be next. Art, literature, film, gaming (board or video).

[@SuperMidH]

I love the Kirby series so much. They're usually pretty easy, so there's no risk in ever "losing", but even knowing that the power of annihilating everything in my path keeps me engaged.

[@NameNotNeeded]

My favourite thing about Super Mario Maker was, after publishing your level, it shows you where the major amount of deaths were. I once made a flat level with a single goomba and a goal post: 46 people somehow died to this goomba.

[@ED-gw9rg]

The best features in a bunch of games are things only nitpickers would think to fix, but a lot of people could potentially benefit from.

[@thechugg4372]

It's so weird to see this risk return philosophy in kirby because kirby is one of the most fun platformer I have EVER played, the amount of ways you can use the abilities to simply have fun is the fun in itself!

[@Kabula_Queen]

I think this is why he used Dreamland rather than Adventure or Super Star, which gives advanced players more options to play with. These games have more depth in how you approach them. Super Star, especially.

[@hikari_no_yume]

There is another video where Sakurai explains how games can be fun in many ways other than game essence. I guess Kirby is a good example of that.

[@GregDaWizard]

In these cases its not necessarily the game essence thats making the games more fun, its exploring new copy abilities/moves and playing new interesting levels that is doing the heavy lifting. The more you burn through that content, the less subsequent playthroughs thrill you

[@fernandobanda5734]

I have the opposite experience with Kirby. I never got interested in the abilities because I never needed them, so it felt like extra work to memorize the different commands when I could simply inhale stuff and be successful.

[@ED-gw9rg]

​@@fernandobanda5734 Congrats! You can brag to everyone else that you play Kirby the ol' fashioned way! Modern games treat no Ability as it's own Ability!

[@Mene0]

Very well put. Something like Dark Souls has a lot of game essence and no one believed it would be a success, but somehow it managed to get broad appeal. Also think of games that keep going for a long time, like gachas or mmos. They tend to get more complicated and less appealing to beginners

[@mmking9999]

Fighting games are always going to be the most challenging when it comes to what Sakurai was talking about. I think the biggest problem people have getting into these games is the idea of having to train to get better, because training = work. I don't think many people play games to work, right? So then devs will add features to reduce the amount of work you have to do to get to the fun parts (fighting other players, doing combos, etc.), or they'll add separate game modes that doesn't have anything to do with versus play. Anything to broaden the appeal of fighting games.

[@LucarioShirona]

You can say that again. I didn't have much interest in traditional Fighting Games till Street Fighter 6 when they introduced that robust single player campaign.

[@zerarch77]

Fantasy Strike is the only FG that approached accessibility as a non-joke design goal. There was this Granblue FG with simple controls BUT if you used them your moves were strictly worse so the skill floor wasn't actually lowered at all. In other FGs either your moveset is reduced (akin to starting a chess game with fewer pieces) or the "simplified" controls are actually more complicated!

[@milo4885]

YES. As sad as it is to say it almost feels impossile for fighting games to be anywhere near as popular as more casual games

[@mmking9999]

The new Granblue fighter is interesting because it keeps both the regular and simple controls, but there's no longer a downside to using the simple controls. Needless to say that was a controversial change!@@zerarch77

[@mmking9999]

@@LucarioShirona I'm actually glad World Tour turned out the way it did. It's something I envisioned how a single player mode would work as far as teaching players how to play a fighting game, and then Capcom went and made it.

[@anonymouskingstudio]

Another epic video by Sakurai, I finally reached the last video released after watching all the others, so much knowledge here I just have to thank!

[@pedroscoponi4905]

Big fan of this one. It's something people often forget when discussing things like difficulty options in games - that difficulty is not an intrinsic property of the game, it's a relationship between the game and the player. Having (good) difficulty modifiers is a good way to ensure a larger spectrum of people can play the game without being excessively frustrated - or incredibly bored!

[@eanderson9599]

The difficulty slider in Kid Icarus Uprising and the high skill ceiling of smash ultimate illustrates how Sakurai knows how to make games for both the casual and hardcore audience

[@meyerpictures]

Perfect video as always. This video is thought-provoking, because its concepts, while simple, seem to go against almost all traditional thinking about the ways games function. It's a new type of thinking I've never heard before when discussing games. At the core of it, and of Sakurai-san's games, though, is a desire to bring new people into the fold. Games are great fun, and for people like us who are hardcore fans, we can't get enough, but it's important to "be kind to beginners". If all games are made to cater exclusively to only the most hardcore fans, the medium as a whole will quickly become overly insular and navel-gazing. It reminds me of how Shigeru Miyamoto doesn't focus too much of his inspiration from other games, but rather natural experiences in his everyday life, so truly new experiences can arise. "Revolution", not just "Evolution" (sometimes evolution is good too!) This struggle is incredibly easy to moralize or make into propaganda, though. "You're betraying your fans!" "Why do we all have to suffer a shallow game just so the new people get to win?" "I'm a hardcore fan who put in a lot more time so the game should be designed around me and I should be constantly rewarded!" "This band totally sold out after their second album!" There's a legitimate argument that can be made from the sentiment that lies within, but it can be quickly twisted into a narrative of victimhood and resentment. Of course, there are times where, like all things, appealing to a new audience can be executed poorly, and we all enjoy being a bit snobby once in a while (I'm remembering when a certain someone who couldn't get past the first level of Cuphead).

[@maromania7]

I'd say that audience does have a lot of opportunities, as that's what launched the Wii into the stratosphere. It's good to remember that nearly every game is going to be SOMEONE's first, or at least first of this kind. We should still make games that cater to hardcore gamers, but we need to cater to the beginners as well. Either with a variety of game options or REAL difficulty options. Not just modifying health and damage, but modes that actually change the game (changing attack patterns, obstacles, the challenges themselves). Disability options would help as well. For instance, an easy mode that actually slows down the game speed or increases reaction time helps those with nerve damage...which statistically is most of us, eventually.

[@OccuredJakub12]

I think the understated value of Kirby's risk/return curve is the added axis of *time* You can fly over everything, sure, but it limits your speed and manouverability, and in the newer games, also your attacking options, it CAN get you in trouble. As for inhaling, you can do so from a further range, but it puts a stop to Kirby's movement and takes longer the further away the enemy is. Even the difference of half a second can be something that a hardcore gamer would want to shave off to be as fast and efficient as possible. Basically, think of ways to make your risk/return curve normally very low but give players the ability to dynamically alter it through rewarding them for secondary goals. In a JRPG this could be something like lowering your current level temporarily in order to gain more EXP in the long run.

[@Sickmmaner]

I still can't believe that we get to experience this amazing content from Sakurai himself. Thank you so much for all of this information!

[@WolfPhoenix0]

You see this all the time in modern Kirby games too. The base story is (fairly) simple while 100% completion is usually a nightmare. 😂

[@FedoraKirb]

It’s interesting how Copy Abilities, and especially the introduction of the wider movepools, give players varying levels of Game Essence for the player. Especially as boss and ability design continues to greatly evolve in the series, players have all kinds of options for taking on bosses, which is part of what makes the games so engaging! (2:56 Also the finales of Kirby games tend to be way more thrilling than Mario games imo)

[@owencmyk]

There seems to be a typo in the subtitles at 3:14. It says "they may not know what do to", but it probably should say "they may not know what to do".

[@JumpmanNX]

Another fantastic video by Sakurai! He is correct that we need games for beginners in order for the industry to grow. Even some of those games might be easy for someone to beat the story, but ramp up the challenge for those going for 100% completion. So both beginners and gamers win in that scenario.

[@Glory2Snowstar]

Always happy to see lil’ Splatoon cameos in these :)

[@fuschia-draws]

3:27 mr. sakurai not-so-subtly throwing shade at predatory pay to win mobile games is the greatest thing

[@alec_almartson]

Thank You for teaching us this Lesson, Master Sakurai 🎮💯👍🏻 "Challenge" (or Difficulty) Level... it is indeed every Game's Essence. Especially if we see our games as: a World in which we must make a series of "Interesting Decisions" (to win...).

[@Poyostar]

Well, ain't that an interesting way to look at things? This is something I have to keep in mind if I ever decide to make a game. Great wisdom as always!

[@Yipper64]

Kirby's dreamland is always a nice relaxing time. Whenever im in the mood and just have a spare hour, its always nice to just boot up and run through.

[@JohnboyTheGamer]

Me beating Agent 3 in Splatoon 2 DLC just to get a golden hair pin

[@ASpaceOstrich]

Risk and reward being the core of game essence is something I never would have thought about, but makes perfect sense in hindsight.

[@masterofdoom5000]

It's that thrill of the risk that should invite a new person into a situation they're unfamiliar, despite the fact that the designed risk is actually quite low. The sense of growth and accomplishment in just learning something basic when you know nothing is immense.

[@NIMPAK1]

Essentially, games that heavily focus on precision-based challenge can check all the boxes when it comes to good game design, but it doesn't mean that it would be fun. I personally really enjoy games with complex and fluid movement systems even if it comes at the cost of level design and enemy placement. The challenge of those games are less focused on survival and more on stringing together actions to order to play through the game fast or earn points or do combos or even simply because it feels satisfying. One of my favourite NES-era games is Gimmick, which despite being pretty difficult, has nice feeling movement and a star you summon that's really fun to play around with, so even when you're stuck the game never feels like work.

[@LeesChannel]

Well, I think the obvious solution is to start of easy, and progressively get more difficult. That's typically been the approach, however in the modern era there have been quite a lot of games that reverse that: roguelike/lites, Souls games, etc. Which, to be fair, is pretty refreshing. However, it does make a petty big barrier to entry. Or so one would think. I have a 4 year old who is obsessed with Cuphead, she's never won a round, but she loves to play it. She also plays The Binding of Isaac, which keeps track of your win/loss streak. Right now she's got about 500 losses in a row racked up, but she still continues to play, even though we have much easier games like Miitopia available.

[@DenylR]

En efecto, Sakurai posee la E s e n c i a.

[@tuvyamaeir4684]

Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee reminds me of this discussion but gone wrong. In making the game more approachable they slashed the game essence apart, fine for something introductory. But the way they did that does a poor job of introducing many basic RPG concepts like armor (held items) or passive skills (abilities) which kind of slashed the appeal for moving on to trying out the rest of the series.

[@MidoseitoAkage]

Finally, someone knew that game is bad. They simply cut the essential of this one: the rpg fight. I don't want just throw the poké-balls on a pokémon like a brainless doofus, I want to fight the pokémon with my mons and capture it. If only the fight against the wild one are like the legendary one. I get insulted juat because I hate it so much. Also, this game is a remake over a remake.

[@Titan990]

I wouldn’t say slash but rather shifted it towards something that is usually easy in other Pokémon games.

[@fernandobanda5734]

I don't think it reduced the appeal at all to new players. Whether they "graduated" to other Pokémon games or not was their choice, in which case they'd learn new things no problem. Plenty of new players (especially coming from Pokémon GO) had a blast with Let's Go.

[@th4nkyoub3n]

@@MidoseitoAkagethe catching mechanics of arceus are part of why i stopped playing early on. (catching the same type over and over) im not sure if that’s related to let’s go since i haven’t played that

[@Azzie_S]

I'd disagree there considering LGPE is Pokemons best selling remake and Red/Blue which didn't have abilities or held items is still Pokemons best selling game, a few million ahead of Sword/Shield. It's arguable they started off with a game anyone could play. Then the appeal dropped as made it more complicated, they shut out more casual players. Which is what Sakurai is talking about here.

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

amazing advice, thank you sakurai! easy to understand!

[@npc_blob1609]

Funnily enough I could get much further in other GB games I had like castlevania II belmont's revenge than Kirby, where I always ran out of lives on the 2nd stage somehow.

[@sefirotsgame]

For me, the best thing to do it's what Donkey Kong Country Returns (1 and 2) does, which is to have a difficult game with the chance to "cheat it" with nearly invincible characters, helpful items or skipping stages. The last Mario games do that too with the super easy mode that appear if you fail too much in a level. All those optional helps are very good for casual gamers without harming hardcore gamers.

[@Mr.Feather130]

This made me appreciate the original Kirby's dream land even more when the main campaign of the game is rather easy but extra mode for the game spice things up to make it more challenging and fun

[@TheOrian34]

So long, Bowser!

[@legacytag]

Regardless of difficulty, people are still able to make self imposed challenges or can still push a game to its absolute limit via speedrunning. The current world record for Kirby's Dream Land on Normal Mode is 9 minutes and 51 seconds for example, which must've been insanely difficult! I think that's ok too, some games are specifically designed for speedrunners, some unintentionally are, and some aren't But the fact that people speedrun, doesn't take away from the casual audiences enjoyment of the games! People can enjoy games however they desire, as long as they don't judge others for how they play! ^.^

[@redtutel]

Pokémon’s a good example of lower game essence. Even the hardest games are much easier then most RPGs The Experience share is something that lowers the game essence to the benefit of many players, but too much to more hardcore fans The essence has never been as low as in X and Y, but people still feel like it does because of the presence of the EXP share (although it’s a very common experience system is most RPGs these days) The series has THE most game essence in multiplayer, and the single player battle facilities

[@chronology556]

Pokémon as a JRPG is easy as pie, as a battle simulator, it’s unforgiving especially since Gen 3 and the DVs versus IVs, and Stat Exp vs EVs, with the addition of natures. Breeding and Training a competitive or Battle Frontier mon becomes hell on earth repetitive.

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

Game essence isn't the only factor to consider for appeal, either. Even if a game is technically "boring" or overcomplicated for some people, they can find other things to enjoy about it like the world/character/story design or the variety of ways to play, circumventing the flaws in the game essence or perhaps even turning them into boons. Fighting games especially have that going for them as they have a variety of playable characters, all with their own styles and usually with their own story goals, and you can often nicely arrange almost any situation you want for almost any goal, big or small, you want. Even many linear level games grant the freedom to revisit levels and mess around in them or discover new things about them, effectively revealing themselves to be open-ish world games in disguise. If such freedom can train someone to improve at the game, so much the better. But it's also fine if the player doesn't care to be hardcore. And, regardless, there are those that can enjoy both simple and complicated. There's value in all levels of complexity. Speaking of simple, now I wonder what a good mobile Kirby game would be like. One could port Canvas/Rainbow Curse, Mass Attack or even Tilt 'n' Tumble or Air Ride and call it a day, but what about something more in line with traditional Kirby play? Maybe a 2D platformer with all tapping: tap open space to go there however necessary, tap an object or enemy to inhale or attack it, tap Kirby to swallow or drop an ability, tap a door to enter it. Abilities would be on the level of Kirby's Adventure; nothing super-fancy. Such a game could be just as rich as Adventure, even.

[@ctmc]

Gimmick! For the famicom is a good example of what Kirby would be with high game essence and low broad appeal.

[@stl-xx5rq]

Can you create a new version of Kirbys Dreamland that allows us to experiment with all the things shown at 1:39?

[@Kabula_Queen]

He doesn't work at HAL anymore. I would love to see Sakurai work on a Kirby game that he has total freedom on. I'm too curious!!! Still, maybe he would think it's not in the spirit of Kirby to do so or that he has moved on. 🤔 Still, I'm so curious! His Kirby games always added something big that changed how Kirby played forever. I would be interested...

[@Filon73]

@@Kabula_Queen With all respect to Sakurai and the marvelous stuff he did with Kirby at the start, I would not be happy to leave Kumazaki behind as a director.

[@Kabula_Queen]

@Filon73 uhhh why would anything happen to Kumazaki lol? You realize he's a general director overseeing other directors already. Meaning the series already has different directors at the helm. Kamiyama directed Forgotten Land. I don't see why Sakurai couldn't direct his own title one last time or why there couldn't be more than one director for the series.

[@Rubberman202]

I believe this is what they refer too as the "lowest common denominator", and it's always rubbed me the wrong way. Having broad appeal isn't a bad thing, in fact being able to appeal to as many people as possible is a hefty accomplishment in and of itself sometimes, but it does mean that nuance and depth get dialed back in the process.

[@jmiquelmb]

I partially agree with you, but people shouldn’t assume that easier games mean they have a larger appeal. While it’s true that it’s an outlier, Elden Ring sold more than 20 million. A game being too easy can repel many people too. To use an extreme example, a toddler toy is the most accessible product, everyone can use it. But most adults will find it trivial and boring. That doesn’t mean an easy game is boring or worse than a difficult one, but you have to be careful when tuning the difficulty according to what you want to achieve. I think that the criticism about lowest common denominator is more appropriate when it’s about games that want to adopt mechanics that are popular without considering whether they make their game good or not.

[@dukemon6163]

​@@jmiquelmbI wonder how many of those Elden Ring players even made it out of the first area though.

[@ashenbonfire]

@@jmiquelmb For Elden Ring, I'll make the argument that it was made easier/ more forgiving in comparison to its predecessors, due to the new open world format and mechanics that were changed around it. Many encounters are no longer "forced" as they were in previous Souls games, in fact, many of the overworld enemies can be ridden around without much effort or risk inherent. There's also the Stakes of Marika, and no stamina being drained outside of combat - both additions that make repeated efforts much less grueling or difficult to accomplish. Not even mentioning re-speccing your character being made more available, invaders restricted to 2v1 by default instead of classic 1v1s, and Spirit Summons! In general, though Elden Ring does have some of the most difficult bosses the game series has offered as of yet, the experience of moving through and progressing in the game world has been given much more mass appeal in its simplicity and focus on mythical heroics. I've yet to see a moment in the overworld where you have to fight and grasp for the slightest hint of a bonfire like you do while running scared through DS1. It shows a shift in development style used for this game to highlight a different story than the 'malcontent struggle of broken people finding their way in a dark world' styling of Dark Souls. Instead, it grew into the 'here's a world to explore and conquer - beautiful and awe-inspiring' we see in Elden Ring. The combat system is also really intuitive, based in 'easy to learn, and hard to master'. A far cry from traditionally casual-challenged series like classic fighters.

[@jmiquelmb]

@@dukemon6163 I have the steam achievements from steam since I own the game on PC. To this day, 67% of all players have beaten Godrick, the boss that soft walls the entry to Liurnia. It's not necessary to beat since there's a secret path to avoid the boss, and an optional area out of the main path that you can explore from the first area. But since once you beat Godrick you have clear access to a new area, it seems that more than 2/3 of all players did. Elden Ring is not that difficult tbh, there's plenty of side stuff to do and level up, there's many ways to cheese enemies and also you can summon spirits and online players to help. Also, the easiest achievement sits on 78% completion, which is basically an indicator of how many people really tried to play the game, since you'll get that achievement by simply exploring a bit of the region. So in my opinion, most people who really tried to play for a few sessions managed to beat the first bosses. The end game achievements are around 40%, which is notable for a game that it's so long as this one.

[@jmiquelmb]

@@ashenbonfire Yeah, I completely agree. It's been described by many as both the easiest and the most difficult. It's designed to avoid most difficulty walls, and gives plenty of tools to beat the game at your prefered way, but still provides a challenge. Some optional bosses are pretty brutal. I think it's a good example of how you can't categorize a game as simply easy/accessible vs difficult/hardcore.

[@Gaia_BentosZX5]

There's a risk and return philosophy in Pizza Tower, namely in the P Rank. Especially with the riskier stages like WAR and Don't Make a Sound.

[@julianspatter]

This perfectly helps explains my opinion on if Elder Scrolls 6 should bring back the leveling system from Oblivion. ES3:Morrowind and ES4:Oblivion both have a complex leveling system that's difficult to understand and even harder to master, leading to a narrower appeal, but ES5:Skyrim dramatically simplifies this system to where a majority of players can use it, and would you look at that Skyrim is the most popular Elder Scrolls game by a land slide. It would've been fine to keep the leveling system the same since the game knows it's audience and what they want, but since Skyrim made it much easier a whole new group of more casual players came in, making it difficult to go back to the older, more difficult, leveling system because it would alienate all these more casual players.

[@catluvr2]

I appreciated your use of the LoLoLo and LaLaLa fight from Mt. Dedede in the video. How could I tell? Simple. The music wasn't the boss theme.

[@milesfarber]

I absolutely love how HARD Sakurai roasts From Software in every single video. Like Pocketpair wrecking them in a million pieces wasn't enough.

[@Soumein]

Now I'm trying to image a Kirby mobile game. Thanks, Mr. Sakurai.

[@RangoTheMercenary]

Fire Emblem: Blazing Blade was my first SRPG. What I worried about being an extremely complicated game ended up being one of my favorite games ever. The bonus of Marth and Roy being in Melee helped give it a wide ranged appeal. By comparison, Final Fantasy Tactics was known for being overly complicated for a beginner. Let alone Daravon's tutorial taking around 20 minutes to read everything, it was an intimidating, complicated game. Yet, it's also embraced by a group of fans who relished in playing a game like this.

[@meteorain2940]

Yes Kirby's Adventure was an easy game and I usually enjoy some difficulty, but it was still one of the most fun experiences on the NES for me because of how animated it was. Looking back, it made so many games before it feel as if they could've done so much more.

[@marthiousknowledge9]

Yes! Yes! Some people are just too closed minded to empathize with non-hardcore gamers. They say, just "get good" and practice till your fingers fall off! 😂😂😂

[@WishMakers]

This gets really difficult when a given mechanic has risk and reward built into it fundamentally. In our own game, our mechanic is filled to the brim with risk. You have to get close to bullets but not get hit a number of times, and the more you do it, the more resources you gain. But on the easiest difficulty, there were less bullets, and unless we changed how much each "near-miss" affected the timer, it wasn't rewarding enough either. The result was difficulty-dependent scaling of "game essence" mechanics, and while our first time in it wasn't the most successful, we will be more finely tuning it in the future.

[@fernandobanda5734]

Is that the basis of the game? Because I can totally see a "dodge very close bullets for a big reward" as the kind of risk-reward mechanic that beginners don't really need to see, while their game is about something else (that's also fun, of course). Plenty of games have advanced risky fun mechanics that you can disregard in lower difficulties. I guess you *could* broaden the dodge range/window in lower difficulties but I think that's gonna throw people off when they switch difficulties.

[@evdestroy5304]

Clearly Sonic Forces was the most appealing game of all time

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

I love this channel!

[@Eficiente_VSB]

How about making an optional hard mode from the start that's hidden from casual players?

[@fernandobanda5734]

Why hide it?

[@PlayinFreak]

Could do something like that in Pokemon. If you beat your rival in all of the first three matches, the game takes a different turn story-wise and trainer's pokemon start to scale with your own. The more important the trainer, the more unforgiving the scaling becomes. If you lose any of the first three matches, the game will play like a normal post-gen 5 Pokemon game. Also make the third match more challenging to seperate the veterans from the casuals more effectively.

[@Tiavals]

@@fernandobanda5734 Because lots of poor players are extremely proud and will choose the hardest difficulty from the start, then complain loudly that a game sucks because they were too poor at it while simultaneously too proud to lower the difficulty to be more suited to their lack of skill.

[@Drekiola99]

this channel is awesome

[@Xenowolf8]

It is a sad truth, but you can learn from it.

[@monster3339]

i love how kirby's dream land is used as the example for a beginner friendly game, because dreamland 2 was one of the first nintendo games i ever owned. i was 6 years old when my mom got me a blue gameboy pocket for xmas, along with pokemon blue and kirbys dreamland 2. im absolutely obsessed with pokemon to this day, but i also give a lot of credit to kirby for instilling a love for gaming in me. that little game captured my imagination hard, and i put countless hours into it. years ago, i went back to my beloved cartridge and 100%'d it for the first time :) (related: kirby 64 was the first game i EVER 100%'d as a kid!)

[@Azzie_S]

Good video. I think even hard games with a lot of game essence should start easy enough that a casual player could make a fair amount of progress (e.g. male it past a boss or two) before it actually reaches your intended difficulty. Super Mario Bros is harder than Kirby, but until world 2 or 3 it isn't really that much more difficult. That means casual players can enjoy a fair stretch of the game and even find secrets like the warp zone and end up liking the game even if they never actually beat it. That's likely why despite being harder Mario is still more popular than Kirby, the opening sections of Mario are casual enough to gain that wide audience, while the later stages are tough enough to keep core players happy.

[@derekw8039]

"Have a gumdrop, kid." 🤣

[@catsozen]

Bennet Foddy *pulls out earplug* : I'm sorry you were saying?

[@ExploDjinn]

Been playing a decent bit of Mega Man X Dive Offline lately and noticed that the levels and controls are pretty simple, compared to mainline. I have to remind myself that it started off as a mobile game, with its tiny screen and while playing with all the characters is a lot of fun, it makes me yearn for a really cool stage gimmick.

[@Amelanduil]

I need my games to be as complex as possible to fully enjoy them. Things like Shadow Empire, when you're designing your army's aircraft you have to pay attention to details like the planetary gravity, atmosphere, wind speed... a sublime experience. I love games that are clearly not for everyone.

[@oswinner9265]

The beauty of Kirby’s Dream Land is you can actually toggle your HP at the start of the game. Trying playing it with only one HP on extra mode and tell me it’s easy…!

[@sigurdtheblue]

I am not sure if I have played this game at all, but I feel like I can appreciate it more than some of the other really easy Kirby games. I think back when Kirby was released, it was a guaranteed success. It really is a brilliant idea because people like me never wanted to play action games due to the arcade mentality infused in most of them. I had the misfortune of playing Rayman early on, but I sort of feel like Crash Bandicoot gave me even more negative feelings towards those types of games because it looked cooler and sort of eased into things at first until that stupid boulder section.

[@MrSentinel07]

Funny enough, this reminds me of another Intelligent Systems game, Code Name STEAM. As a veteran Fire Emblem fan, I gave the demo a try long ago and couldn't beat it. So I shrugged it off, thinking "okay, it's obviously made for super hardcore and skilled strategy gamers". And then I looked at some developer interviews and apparently they were trying to make a beginner-friendly game for those who had never played a strategy game before. Yeah....making such a hard as balls game "beginner-friendly"? I feel like Intelligent Systems maybe could use lessons from Mr. Sakurai. It's little wonder the game bombed.

[@whatshappeninganymore2473]

Honestly it's not THAT bad most of the time, and this is coming from someone who usually doesn't play TRPGs. Could just be that since it's (probably) very atypical for a trpg it trips veterans up

[@4.0.4]

Think of it this way. If there was a "one size fits all" approach, big companies would have perfected it. Instead, there's plenty of room for indies to grow!

[@appleboy5878]

For this, I was surprised he didn't mention Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros. Brawl. In my opinion, those two games are the definition of High Game Essence, Low Broad Appeal and Low Game Essence, High Broad Appeal.

[@LocrianDorian]

The hard truth that some gamers simply are not willing to accept.

[@zanok7796]

yes you're right

[@MentalLiberation]

And sadly, as long as the conversation keeps going between those gamers and other gamers who buy into it, they will never accept it. Sad, but true, so what can you do? The best we can with what we have right where we are.

[@killinswagz]

Me sitting here seeing league of legends, fortnite, magic the gathering, and yu gi oh top sales numbers for a decade

[@ClampEEGEE]

We accept it, we're just fine with it appealing to less people.

[@fernandobanda5734]

​@@killinswagzAh, yes, Magic the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh!, the games that almost literally started the genre and have had decades to build a sunken playerbase. I wonder how they would do if they were released today, or why newer successful TCGs *never* repeat their mistakes or complexity. 🤔

[@PhilipMurphy8Extra]

Thanks Masahiro.

[@MythicMachina]

This might honestly be one of the most important videos that Sakurai has put out. The more complicated you make a game, the more isolating it can be to people. Not to mention how subjective difficultly can be in the first place. Honestly things that FGC should learn.

[@petergriscom3431]

That's all well and good for a brand new IP, but a huge problem arises when you apply that too heavily to an established series that thrived off its niche appeal. God Eater was like Monster Hunter, but much more fast-paced, and had a vast assortment of abilities and passive skills to compliment this. For God Eater 3, the director decided that the systems they'd built up had become too complicated for new players, and that they should strip away practically all of it for the sake of broad appeal. This decision turned the game into a mindless button masher, where nothing you do matters, and it stripped away _everything_ I loved about the series. The end result is that most of the fanbase hated it, only the bootlickers would recommend it, and the new people they lowered the bar for ditched it the second the next shiny object caught their pogger attention span.

[@BluishGreenPro]

There are some players who will intentionally self-impose rules to make a game more difficult, like a Pokemon Nuzlocke run, but it’s a bit harder to do this the other way around. Sure you can “cheese” fights in Dark Souls, but it really makes the experience a drag, in my opinion. I don’t expect every game to add difficulty modifier options, but personally, I think it’s better for a game to be a little on the easier side with room for players to self-impose challenges than for a game to be really difficult and risk driving away new players.

[@enragedkonchu7422]

This video feels like a callout towards 4 year old me who couldn't get past the second level of kirby on my old Gameboy... The tower scared me, and I kept getting lost😅.

[@armandorentaramos4648]

Is he talking about the level selection?

[@connordarvall8482]

Game essence is like game length and rewards. Both are undeniably good things about a game, but with enough effort it is possible to add too much unless you're catering to an extreme niche and sometimes you can even make a unique experience by minimising it. Additionally, difficulty is not always game essence. Older games used to use it to pad the game out. Otherwise, the player spends $90 for a game that lasts half an hour.

[@Dude902]

The notes to the video editor definitely said not to use Dark Souls in any of the clips so as not to piss off the Gamers.

[@themothreborn]

I played KIRBY'S DREAM LAND just the other day and it's still fun

[@blivveries]

You could say it's the push and pull of game design itself.

[@Brods11]

Great information👍

[@DarkBloodbane]

Thanks for the tip Mr Sakurai! My games have high risks but high rewards, so I'm aware that it might not appeal to most players. I'm considering lowering the risk while retaining reward to appeal more players.

[@thecunninlynguist]

this is why Kirby (and many other games) games have an optional/unlockable hard mode...but even the first kirby's hard mode wasn't that hard.

[@Kabula_Queen]

You can change it to 1 stock and no continues for a brutal experience haha

[@thecunninlynguist]

@@Kabula_Queen lol i tried doing that recently on the NSO version. BUT i had rewind...so lol

[@Kabula_Queen]

@thecunninlynguist hey, you play how you like. Long as you have fun. I use save states on some games to avoid some back tracking or split long parts up, etc.

[@dynamicsketch]

I liked Kirby's Dreamland. The extra mode is difficult. I have always seen Kirby's Dreamland as starting with the inhale mechanic later paving the way for the copy abilities. Start off with something simple and expand from that. Mario started off with just two power ups and later games would have many if not new ones.

[@faizalf119]

Elden Ring is surprisingly good at balancing this. Torrent is given double jump, first level characters are way stronger than older Souls games. Even archery was given a good boost.

[@MartinPurathur]

Excellent vidya

[@WaluigiGoesWa]

In my opinion this is one of the worst aspects in Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope. In that game, due to healing and how many ways there are to nullify damage, you are never really in danger of dying. I wouldn't have a problem with heal/stall strats if they were giving you low reward while going in guns blazing gave you a high reward, however you don't gain anything from playing faster. This is a downgrade from Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, while the original title also had heal/stall strats, you wouldn't get gold trophies if you were to slow, giving you a reason to take risk to go faster.

[@saberbladefang250]

And sakurai plays guilty gear

[@jvts8916]

I feel like another think to discuss is when to make a difficulty spike and how steep. For example, Dragon Quest 11's early game gives you easy battles because you don't even have four party members. It's only once you reach the Slayer of the Sands that the game decides to really test just how good you are at strategy. On the flipside, DQ9's first tough boss is the second because it *is* the tutorial for party composition.

[@Aslimb6gd]

Hmmm. So if a game is to be complex, it should be easy to pick up because most obstacles have multiple solutions, but difficult to master because there are so many abilities and threat variety that something like maximizing your variation without getting hit would take trial and error (even for some speedrunners).

[@Big-Mic7878]

A thing that is still debated to this day I agree with the others you'll sometime never know how it will turn out for them unless they play the game they wanted to play (sometimes at first) Oh actually this reminds of one person and their experiences with pokemon rumble U she bought it, played it but after a few didn't enjoy it/live up to expectations😐 maybe too easy? too hard? Either way just didn't appeal to her so now she's just stuck with a game that will never be finish Unfortunate but at least we're all learning as we improve our game for the people of choice.

[@guilherme5094]

👍Great video!