More Proof that the Early Church was Catholic

Joe Heschmeyer examines the evidence found in Ignatius of Antioch's writings proving that the early church was indeed Catholic.
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[@jonathanstensberg]

St Ignatius is one of many keys to realizing that the Catholic Church emerged immediately from the apostolic age.

[@consecratedsoul]

If you don’t quote mine our Saints you’ll end up Catholic or Orthodox, anything else is self deception.

[@marcokite]

Hopefully Orthodox! ☦☦☦

[@RedWolf5]

Can’t be schismatic after deep study so you’d have to be Catholic. Schism is condemned in the Bible and how fathers.

[@tony1685]

if they don't honor all Ten Commandments, it's not Christianity. see Exodus 20:8-11

[@DavidFarrington13]

The Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church are false religions l. Such could be proven through various topics

[@RedWolf5]

@@tony1685 you don’t so begone Satan!

[@martina.echeverria3767]

Ex Evangelical here! I read these letters and knew I was a heretic 😂. I wanted to please my Lord in all things, I wanted to be part of His REAL Church, I wanted to eat HIS Flesh and drink HIS Blood, and St. Ignatius is my patron Saint now. God bless! "All the pleasures of the world, and all the kingdoms of this earth, shall profit me nothing. It is better for me to die on behalf of Jesus Christ, than to reign over all the ends of the earth." - St. Ignatius

[@susand3668]

Welcome home!

[@lindaakguest4ever50]

Welcome home!

[@smeatonlighthouse4384]

Have you ever heard the expression - Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[@SolaPastora]

@@smeatonlighthouse4384Loving Jesus more than ourselves brings us home. Self-giving and not self-serving-- Eternal Security only exists because of Sola Pastora.

[@JustADudeOnTheInternetSoChill]

The ecclesiology of St Ignatius the Theophoros of Antioch is the ecclesiology lived by the Orthodox Church. He would have absolutely condemned papal supremacy (papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction) for the heresies they are.

[@henrytucker7189]

For me, it was St Augustine first … then Ignatius. As a Calvinist, Augustine’s ecclesiology was shockingly Catholic. Not just Catholic, but ROMAN Catholic. I realized that this “patron saint” of Calvinist soteriology would never be permitted to mount the pulpit of any Calvinist church I had ever attended. But worse, I would not be admitted into Augustine’s church either. So I had to basically make the decision that either Augustine was totally wrong… or I was. Easy choice. I became Catholic. I could not imagine the Christian church without Augustine’s beautiful faith and mind and love for Christ. But I could certainly imagine it without mine. So I changed.

[@susand3668]

Wonderful testimony!! Thank you!

[@emilyzlockard]

I really hope we can get a deep dive on Augustine some day from Joe. He would knock it out of the park.

[@stefanielozinski]

Beautifully put!

[@MeanBeanComedy]

What specifically did Augustine say that got to you? I've found most Prots who know a little like Augustine, so it'd be good to know.

[@sivad1025]

St. Augustine eased my concerns on the Immaculate Conception. John Calvin was a huge fan of Original Sin, but Augustine saw Original Sin and Immaculate Conception as complementary. Granted, I'm still as a now Catholic queasy with Immaculate Conception, but it at least made me realize that if I could so easily grant Augustine's invention of the original sin articulation, it's not too crazy to accept his Mariology

[@beaniehampton]

As Scott Hahn might say, "I figured out something only to realize the Fathers of the Church already said it." (Cradle Catholic)

[@MeanBeanComedy]

I thought Scott was a convert! 🤨🤔

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

Dr hahn is a convert

[@katathoombz]

I wrote my BTh on (kinda) the genuineness of Ignatian epistles, middle recension. It's somehow elating to hear the stuff I spent a year delving into to be so well summarised here. Btw fun coincidence I just now made a note of: I submitted said thesis early May 2019, I was confirmed into the Church late May 2019.

[@BensWorkshop]

Welcome home!

[@JenniferMcMann]

St. Ignatius' letters are a treasure, thank you for providing this background on his writings.

[@halleylujah247]

Something about Joe I love is he packs so much relevant information into a concise video. I could never convey all that he said in a less than 30 minute video. St Ignatius pray for Joe and anyone who reads this.

[@alexs.5107]

Lot of substance indeed.

[@aplcc323]

As a former atheist, I thank God that I can partake in His feast and share with all my brothers and sisters, from times without memory, the most Holy communion with Our Lord Jesus Christ. God bless us all, come back to the church all you who have abandoned her! She shall not perish, there is nothing to protest against that would make it good to leave her.

[@Heart_of_Damascus]

Praise God! I was also an atheist for about 12 years. I can't express how much love I was Immediately enveloped in from the moment I had confession, to adoration and being a part of the community.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

And we're just so gosh-darned happy to have you here, Bo! Welcome to the family, the both of ya! 😁👍🏻

[@thomasberar4311]

Like this comment if St. Ignatius was a force of your conversion!

[@codycampbell9851]

Yup woke me up as well as the didache and polycarp and taking off my Protestant baptist glasses and reading scripture the way the church fathers did.

[@thomasberar4311]

@@codycampbell9851 Same here, but coming from the presby flavor

[@RenegadeCatholic]

BuT yOu'Re ReAdInG RoMaN cAtHoLiCiSm InTo IgNaTiUs!!!!! He WaS tAlKinG aBoUt ThE iNvIsIblE uNivERsal bOdy Of BeLiEvErS WhEn hE uSeD tHe WoRD cAtHoLiC, nOt RoMaN CaThOliCiSm Sincerely, members of a denomination that didn't exist for over 1.5 MILLENIA after Ignatius wrote his letters.

[@VirginMostPowerfull]

Ignatius was the start, Irenaeus sealed the deal.

[@truthnotlies]

Yep, from JW to non-denominational to here!

[@BlankPaperFilms]

The apostolic fathers were a big deal in my conversion, although highest credit goes to the Holy Spirit.

[@PatronSaintKolbe93]

Absolutely. The church fathers can get your brain to think and the Holy Spirit can take you home by your heart being softened. Welcome home.

[@peterzinya1]

@@PatronSaintKolbe93 All these church "fathers' do is talk about how wonderful the CC is. Victims of the inquisition dont believe the CC is so wonderful.

[@PatronSaintKolbe93]

@@peterzinya1 Look into history and not just one or two people. It wasn’t to convert people, but to find people who were outwardly claiming to be Christian but secretly practiced another religion, such as people who had become Christian outwardly, but who were still secretly practicing anti-Messianic Judaism, Islam, etc. Even Protestants have their version that killed a lot of Catholics. A heretic named John Calvin burned people at the stake. If you’re going to bring up this, you have to bring up “The Crusades” that last longer and defense against Muslim/Islam extremists. If that didn’t happen, possibly all Christians would be practicing Islam today.

[@peterzinya1]

@@PatronSaintKolbe93 Hi. So it was just one or two people who did all the evil. Spoken like a true catholic. So what if someone pretended to be christian? Do they deserve to be burned? What gave the CC the right to kill people, for any reason? Calvin was a catholic. Burning is all he knew to do. Say, anyway, how could one or two people kill hundreds of thousands of people over 600 yrs? Why dont you just say....there was no inquisition? That sounds better than saying one or two people did all that.

[@A_Guido_Lost_In_The_Woods]

I asked a very dear protestant friend of mine to read St. Ignatius' letters recently. My friend's final thoughts were that St. Ignatius sounded "suicidal" and obsessed with his own death (even more so than the death of Christ). He saw him as 'some guy' with no authority who sounded crazy. Finally, he insisted that if St. Ignatius was truly as important as we are led to believe, his beloved bible church pastors and Sunday school teachers would have taught about him. He felt that because he had gone all through childhood and into adulthood, never hearing about this guy who came after the gospels, it made this man irrelevant. St. Ignatius' writings "did not pass [his] sniff test." Please pray for my friend

[@aaronsomerville2124]

This is the danger of treating Protestants like they are Christians. Without the Fathers a man is cut off from the Apostolic Faith, and therefore from grace, and therefore from heaven.Speak to them as though they are pagans; without the Holy Eucharist that’s effectively what they are.

[@AquinasBased]

Tell him all those guys who taught him are wrong

[@robertotapia8086]

Several protestante friends of mine that are all different denominations say that the church fathers are irrelevant 😢 so sad to hear that from them.

[@stefanielozinski]

@@aaronsomerville2124Protestants are objectively not pagans. Baptized persons are Christians, though separated, and we don’t necessarily know their culpability for their materially heretical beliefs. Not to mention how generous God is with His grace! 🙏🏻

[@stefanielozinski]

Praying for him! ❤

[@ArkansasJaKeAustin]

I finally couldn't ignore the schizophrenia of Protestantism anymore... asked myself what did the first Christians believe? Do we even have any writings of the early Christians? I didn't care about Origen or Augustine. I only wanted Clement, Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, the Didache. Didn't take me long to figure out that these guys weren't Baptists. I just turned 51yo, and I'm in my 4th week of RCIA.

[@tony1685]

first Christians kept Holy the 7th day Sabbath -- not one pretended the day changed to the 1st day -- this is proven in Scripture. Bible shows none prayed to other humans, certainly not dead ('Hail Mary') -- but to God Alone. Bible shows us none acted as if another sinner can forgive 3rd party sins -- God Alone does that as well. i wasted 35 yrs in catholicism, friend. don't do that -- open a Christian Bible and come to Truth.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

​​@@tony1685wrong! They worshipped on the Lord's day, *SUNDAY*

[@elizabethking5523]

Just confirmed Catholic Easter 2024. And I found the letters of Saint Ignatius. It blew me away.! How did I not know that they existed? I’ve never heard anyone in my protestant church ever talk about it or in the many many Bible studies that I had taken . Seven years ago, I met Catholic, who simply invited me to look some of the early church fathers up. Saint Ignatius is my patron saint! I am so grateful! And so thankful! Praise be to God!🙏🏻❤️

[@francismarion6400]

Do the letters affect the integrity of the Gospels? or the NT at all?

[@susand3668]

Welcome home!!

[@elizabethking5523]

@@susand3668 , Thank you so much! ❤️I will continue to study bc there is so so much more for me to know! The Mass is just sooo awesome!!🙏🏻❤️ The Prayers! The Beauty! 😀🙏🏻💙

[@rose-annrumpus5772]

@@francismarion6400no, but they help you to understand them

[@johns1834]

As a former episcopalian, once I woke up and finally realizing how messed up that church was, becoming Catholic was very easy. The real presence and learning Mary is our Mother was icing on the cake.

[@willskitchen618]

Long before videos like this were being made, I was reading the Patristics. I had to fight really hard to ignore the reality before me: "These people are decidedly Catholic." I hated that fact for years. God, in His grace, has mercifully softened my heart. I am so thankful.

[@jimnewl]

God bless you for affirming that it was hardness of heart, and not any actual intellectual barrier, that kept you from returning to the Church. This is the problem I see with people like Gavin Ortlund and James White, who struggle mightily to give the appearance of having profound intellectual differences with the Church, when it is really just stubbornness and pride.

[@susand3668]

Welcome home!

[@willskitchen618]

@@jimnewl Albert Einstein is quoted to say "The mark of intellect is willingness to change." I'm not saying I'm a smart man. I just want the deepest commune with the Lord Christ that I can have. He's so good, so lovely, so beautiful. Please pray for my wife, friend, that God will bring her along. She's struggling bad with this and has no paradigm to understand what's happening to her husband. St. Augustine, pray for us. St. Monica, pray for her. Holy Mary, pray for us.

[@robertotapia8086]

​@@jimnewltotally agree 👍🏼

[@willskitchen618]

"Do nothing without the Bishop..." St. Ignatius of Antioch

[@Hope_Boat]

Which describes the orthodox Church ☦️ Kyrie eleison

[@clarkkent5442]

I am a recent catholic revert, having fallen away from the church after high school graduation. it was absolutely the early church fathers that helped "convince" me of the truthfulness of catholic doctrine, and more specifically Saint Ignatius of Antioch, and what the eucharist actual is. my story may have led me into a protestant denomination of it weren't for those two things. well that and great apologists like you, Trent Horn, and Jimmy Akin. so after being away from the church for over 25 years, I'm finally getting confirmed. better late than never, right?

[@shamelesspopery]

Absolutely! Welcome back home, Kal-El!

[@levibarros149]

I was raised Baptist/non-denominational, was Pentecostal for a brief time, and reluctantly converted to the Catholic faith in 2019 after years of debating with Catholics and writing essays on why Catholics are wrong. I used to be one of those obnoxious people who say "I don't need to read the church fathers! I have the Bible!" Which is silly because the apostolic fathers were students of the apostles, whose own writings are a part of the bible! It's sort of like saying "I don't need a professional mechanic to help me fix my car. I have the owner's manual!" Here is the logical reasoning that made me Catholic; Premise 1 - The earliest Christians, having lived among the apostles or at least the disciples to the apostles, understood Christianity better than my generation. Premise 2 - If the earliest Christians were wrong about the majority of their beliefs, then there is no chance my present generation could be right about the majority of their beliefs regarding Christian doctrine. Premise 3 - Whatever were the core tenets of the Christians living within the first 500 years, or even just the first 200 years; those are what the core tenets of the correct denomination is. Conclusion - With easy access to the writings of the first Christians, it is clear that the first Christians were Catholic, since all of their beliefs, which were tested and dogmatized, align with with what Catholics believe today. All Protestants with emotional control and a burning curiosity for the truth, will all, eventually, become Catholic again, like their ancestors were.

[@vtaylor21]

19:00 St. Ignatius's organization of the Church clearly shows how Jesus established an authoritative body to bind and lose (Matthew 16 and 18). Not listening to Jesus' authoritative body is cutting yourself off from Jesus.

[@peterzinya1]

In that case, i better start reading what cardinal McCarrick and Father Marciel Maciel said. Surely, i dont want to be cut off from Jesus.

[@DDay9731]

I am currently going through RCIA, and what really convinced me that the Catholic Church is true, is the Eucharist. I grew up Lutheran, so I believed in the presence of Jesus, but only spiritually. St Ignatius, however, helped me see that it really is Jesus, and that this was believed to be true by even the first Christians. Ernest Hemingway wrote that things happen “Gradually then Suddenly,” and that’s exactly how it was with me, because once I realized that the Eucharist is true, after months and months of research, I very quickly realized that the Catholic Church is true; that Peter really is the Rock, that tradition is also true and sacred, etc. And ever since then I have just been on fire for God, more than I ever have before. I love reading, and researching, and each week I look forward to going to Mass and RCIA classes. I look forward to being able to receive the Eucharist, as I have a deep hunger and desire for it, a desire that I believe is righteous. I look forward to this upcoming Easter where, God willing, I will be welcomed into full communion, and I have St. Ignatius, as well as so many other early church Fathers, Scott Hahn, Pints with Aquinas, Council of Trent, and you, Mr. Heschmeyer, for helping me along my way. God bless you all!!

[@stefanielozinski]

God bless you! This makes me so happy to hear. Lutherans seem to make really awesome converts 😅

[@peterzinya1]

if anyone say unto you, here is christ or lo, there is christ, believe it not.

[@Michael-pw2td]

​@peterzinya1 Good point. So I'll stay with Christ in his Catholic Church. Thanks again.

[@peterzinya1]

@@Michael-pw2td Where was Christ during the inquisition?

[@Michael-pw2td]

@@peterzinya1 Which Inquistion? Since you bring up "inquisition", you must know about them. Which one? There were 3. I'll spoil it for you. He was exactly where he was during the Salem Witch Trials. That's when Protstants tor churred and mur derred innocent women.

[@kentadamson6992]

Fantastic video, Joe you are on fire man. I am convert from non-denominational Protestantism. This video really resonated with me because Ignatius was one of the first sources I started reading from the early church. Shortly after reading his writings I changed my mind on sacraments and structure of the church. These two beliefs ultimately lead me home to the Catholic Church. In my opinion, an honest reading of Ignatius pretty much demolishes Protestantism as well as LDS and Jehovah's witness.

[@viperlt86]

Catholic theology professor here, and, I’ve got to say, Joe is killing it. I think he’s my favorite Catholic KZbinr and the one I refer most to my students. He also has some great shirts, haha.

[@tony1685]

sadly, joe isn't 'killing it' with Bible Truth. catholicism mandates sin, friend -- that much is easy to prove.

[@guyguytchombi5425]

​@@tony1685 Praying for you. May the Holy Spirit come and rest upon you, inspiring and guiding you to the Truth.

[@datalore8270]

@@tony1685 Tony, you've tried many times to prove that, and failed. We have dealt with your arguments about the sabbath. We have dealt with your arguments about idolatry. Now, it's okay if you want to disagree. But to say you've proven anything is to say there is no ambiguity in the text, and that your interpretation simply cannot be wrong. That's just pride, my friend. God bless.

[@tony1685]

@@guyguytchombi5425 hey, same to you!

[@susand3668]

@@tony1685 hello again! I am glad that you are exposing yourself to the Truth -- if you ever listen to these videos that you make comments on!! Of course, the Bible Truth is the Catholic Truth. But you have to open your mind and heat to the Holy Spirit, Who has never abandoned His Church (Acts 2) or her leaders, on whom Jesus breathed and gave the Holy Spirit (John 20:22).

[@jimherlihy]

I bought and read "Early Christian Writings" Penguin Books - The early church was undeniably Catholic, those 7 letters by St. Ignatius and the Didache amoung other writings there lay it out very clearly.

[@peterzinya1]

Joseph Smith says the church of Mormon is gods true church. How come you dont read and believe him? Russel Taze says the Jehovas are the true church. How come you dont believe him? Jesus said.....ye shall know them by what they say about themselves.

[@JailHousePreacher]

I remember first time I heard of the church fathers. First i read Clement it shocked me to here about apostolic succession. Then reading Ignatius. "Submit unto your Bishop as you do to the Lord, Do all things in communion with your bishop" My evangelical Mind was not ready for that 😂

[@exjwlaura]

Shared this on my Catholic Channel Divine conversion absolutely love your work thank you so much❤

[@HowdyHowdens]

As a former Mormon, who started going to an evangelical church with my wife, I found a lacking. Mormons are convicted and are sure of their theology. And I didn’t find that in the evangelical church. Mormons say the church fell into apostasy after the apostles, since I no longer believed that I started reading the early church fathers and who would have thought… THEYRE EXTREMELY CATHOLIC. The early church and the rosary totally converted me to Catholicism. My wife followed me in my journey 6 months later after she was healed by the arm bone of St Jude. Love this channel so much. And I appreciate your videos on Mormonism. They are the best.

[@HaleStorm49]

In fairness, there are signs of apostasy everywhere you look and have been for centuries. Someone studying Apostolic healing in scripture would see apostasy in the claim that someone can be healed by human remains. Not believing in Apostasy doesn't make it go away.

[@ChaChaDancin]

So people didn’t take handkerchiefs and aprons that Paul had touched, and use them to heal people? The concept of “relics” comes from early Christian practice, as recorded in the Bible. (Acts 19) If that’s “apostasy”, then I have to wonder from where you’re getting your ideas of what the “original” beliefs and teachings?

[@HaleStorm49]

@@ChaChaDancin yes they did. The apostasy isn't in the recorded events, its in the conceptualization by uninspired but well-meaning men. The concept of "relics" evolved over time. There is no argument that it's not _based_ on early Christian practices. Not dissimilar from movies that are based on true events.

[@HowdyHowdens]

@@HaleStorm49 where are the signs of general apostasy? And how do those “signs of apostasy” constitute the complete falling away and loss of the priesthood, Secondly, how could being healed by human remains be apostasy?? You should read 2 Kings 13 or maybe Acts 19.

[@shamelesspopery]

God bless you, and welcome home! As for the "apostasy" of believing that someone's bones can heal, I second your point: we see it explicitly in 2 Kings 13. Is the Old Testament apostate, then?

[@dlfincher6887]

I was raised anti-Catholic. Churches I attended deliberately proselytized Catholics. This was true through my years at Moody Bible Institute and in my own churches when I pastored. I was in my late 40’s when I stumbled upon Justin Martyr and Ireneaus. They shook my world! I was so anti-Catholic, I first went Anglican, then Anglo-Catholic (studying for the priesthood). I realized that Anglicanism wasn’t solidly committed to Nicene beliefs. I went Orthodox but continued studying the Ecumenical Councils. They affirmed papal primacy. I finally humbled myself & gave in to became Catholic. I am so incredibly thankful!

[@classicalteacher]

I converted in 2006. I earned my undergrad degrees in Bible and Music at a very anti-Catholic "non-denominational Christian" University. There were so many conflicting interpretations of Scripture between professors. They never taught early Church history. For them, Christian theology started in the 1500s. My Biblical Archeology prof taught that the earliest church building excavated had a cup holder for water for the preacher. I was so angry that he refused to teach it was for the Communion Cup. They lied to me and everyone about real Christianity. The music department was just as bad. Music history is Catholic history. The historic liturgical music is Catholicism. This is why the Traditional Latin Mass is critical to Catholicism. The ancient chants in the Liturgy are Catholic proofs. Vatican 2 taught that all Catholics should be able to chant the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin. These chants unify Catholics throughout the ages of Christianity.

[@henrytucker7189]

@@classicalteacher it’s shocking how bad some of these “Christian” colleges are. Just mediocre.

[@JennieChancey]

Coming into the Church after 45+ years as a Protestant, I can tell you it was reading the Early Church Fathers and deeply studying Church history that convinced me. I realized that Protestantism is only slightly more connected to the Early Church than Mormonism and shares the same belief in a great apostasy. Once I read the earliest Church writings and studied the councils, there was no turning back. I thank God that what Jesus promised is still true today: the gates of hell cannot prevail against His Church.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

Real question: Why is Saint Ignatius depicted with such strange ears?

[@susand3668]

I think that is his hair, not his ears??

[@peterzinya1]

Lots of orthodox pictures of these supposed saints have 3 fingers. And there are phallic symbols everywhere. Its all strait from the pits of burning Sulphur.

[@megred7364]

Even after encoutering Ignatius of Antioch and Clement of Rome and how they talked about the authority and necessity of the bishop, I resisted the Catholic Church still. Initially, I looked into Orthodoxy because I still refused to consider Rome. Ultimately, it was the Bible that convinced me that Catholicism is true.

[@dirtysink373]

what made me a Catholic? Well it is recent, I just couldnt square Sola Scriptura and the myriad of denominations anymore.

[@hirakisk1973]

For me, it has been a long process, but St. Ignatius was definitely a step along the journey. The more I learned about the actual early Church and what the Jews ACTUALLY believed at the time of Jesus Christ, I came to realize that in order to be Protestant I had to ignore history and act as if it didn't happen. If anyone is intellectually honest, they can't remain Protestant. Most Protestants don't really dig deep into Church history and just believe whatever history they have been told. The VAST majority of Protestants believe that the Judaism at the time of Jesus was the same Judaism of the European Jews in the 16th Century that Martin Luther based his views on in regard to many Christian practices. Protestants don't realize that their version of Christianity is based on the modern Jewish rejection of Christianity and patterned itself after that. Examples, are: Removal of the Deuterocanon, removal of prayers to the dead, Purgatory (which is STILL believed in Judaism, Martin Luther just didn't like it), and Intercession of the Saints/Angels, just to name a few things.

[@mclarenemmonsmma4968]

Former Mormon. The didache surprised me with two things one repetitive prayers and allowing baptism in ways other than full immersion

[@timboslice980]

I think Augustine was my main driver in conversion. This section in particular really got me thinking And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house. Such then in number and importance are the precious ties belonging to the Christian name which keep a believer in the Catholic Church, as it is right they should, though from the slowness of our understanding, or the small attainment of our life, the truth may not yet fully disclose itself

[@christopherpowell1950]

Youre awesome Joe. Thank you for listening to your students. You are a wonderful example in the Lord

[@alexjohnston2962]

So I have heard your old pal Gavin Ortland and others make the case that the Bishop in Ignatius' letters is more akin to the "senior pastor" of a typical modern protestant church rather than the monarchical episcopate we see in the Catholic/Orthodox churches. He will point to things like the Shepard to show multiple bishops in a single city. I realize there are certainly some things, like the awesome hats for example, that came later, but is there a way to more effectivly defend that these bishops were much more like modern bishops than "senior pastors"?

[@rickydettmer2003]

This has been my question as well👍.

[@FahlosueeWoWStream]

This is not my story but I've been looking for the Catholic reasoning behind it. I know thru my parents a couple who were faithful protestants who were strict Sunday service attenders. They were part of the military like my parents and overseas it can be difficult to attend church, what with timezones travel and base chapel services. No other service was available so they decided to go to a catholic mass on what ended up being Pentecost. They heard the priest in his homily announce that today they were celebrating the birthday of the church. They apparently were stunned at the notion but using logic agreed that the church had to have an actual beginning. They were so impressed that it was only in the Catholic church that they had been introduced to this idea they started their journey to joining the fullness of the faith. I'm Catholic but would love to hear the history of Pentecost and if or why protestants don't celebrate it as we do?

[@JoshN91]

It’s almost a cliche at this point, but I read the feathers and saw the consensus that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. At that point I had to decided if I would believe that, or stop being a Christian. So as hard as it was to comprehend, I was confirmed on April 20th 2019.

[@shamelesspopery]

Welcome home, Josh!

[@christopherpowell1950]

Love this video. Thank you Joe!

[@DrewTheCatholic]

Saint Ignatius’ letters were one of the most pivotal sources in me becoming Catholic. After tearing through all of Ignatius letters and reading Irenaus, it was very hard for me to be anything other than Catholic or orthodox and then after a few more years studying the papacy I came home..

[@shamelesspopery]

Welcome home! (And good to see you this weekend).

[@timmleonard111]

As a Protestant, I was looking for more reverence and respect in my worship of God. I was tired and discontented with singing radio hits and listening to mediocre messages, and I new that there had to be so much more to church than that. When I began looking into the Catholic Church for myself, I fully expected to discover that the Church was heretical and then I would move on. One by one, I was shocked to discover that their interpretation of doctrine was correct. The Catholic faith takes the Bible more literally. I started seeing things in Scripture that I had always glossed over because of my biases. It was like I had a new Bible, even though I was reading the same one. I couldn't soak up information fast enough! I want to worship God the way that He deserves. I want to correctly interpret Scripture, and the early fathers shed light on how the apostles meant their traditions to be interpreted. I want to practice my faith the way that the early Christians did. There's more that I could say but these things and more led me to being confirmed in the Catholic Church this spring. 😊

[@agiraffe5]

Former Anglican/Lutheran. What kick started my conversion was finding out basically everything I thought the Catholic Church believed/taught was completely wrong.

[@IridiumAxle]

Bring back the musical intro! It always got me pumped for a new video!

[@JennieChancey]

Coming into the Church after 45+ years as a Protestant, I can tell you it was reading the Early Church Fathers and deeply studying Church history that convinced me. I realized that Protestantism is only slightly more connected to the Early Church than Mormonism and shares the same belief in a great apostasy. Once I read the earliest Church writings and studied the councils, there was no turning back. I thank God that what Jesus promised is still true today: the gates of hell cannot prevail against His Church.

[@jerrylehner8703]

Thank you, Joe, for another amazing episode! This contains such good supportive evidence of the authenticity of Ignatius's letters. His letters were instrumental in my coming back to the Catholic Church after 45 years in charismatic evangelicalism.

[@chrisalan11rus]

I am not Catholic but I am inquiring into apostolic traditions. I was genuinely surprised when I realized schism is looked at so seriously by the apostles and fathers. That making a new church over a different doctrine is not the same level of commitment as changing cell phone plans. Also learning “worship” for early Christians was liturgical and not a sermon with songs. Liturgical service was mentioned early and not an accretion. 😅whodda though

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

Saint Ignatius of Antioch may have been one of the sources, I guess my heart was ready, and the Holy Spirit convicted me when I read a collection of the church fathers on the Eucharist. The next morning, I started looking up RCIA classes.

[@josh39684]

I'm starting rcia tomorrow. St Irenaeus works were big for me. You should do an episode on them

[@Frst2nxt]

John Calvin wrote his so-called divine institutes as a 22 year old brat who knew much scriptural content because of his earlier Catholic upbringing, despite lying that the Church had forbidden the Bible. It makes sense, looking at his youbg age, why calvin put firward such an immature view of predestination Ignatius had much knowledge of sayings and acts of JESUS no where written, and said JESUS was DOCUMENTS enough for him. Polycarp to the Philippians says the Letters just written by Ignatius should be collected together. And, of course there are a few traditions about Ignatius concerning which tthe Church of Antioch never gives denial, nor does any patristic voice cast doubt: that he was the child JESUS held up aa an example of the sirt of child one must be like to enter the Kingdom, and that he established the responsorial form of the Psalms in the Liturgy, and taught the nine choirs of angels, etc.

[@carolinajackson7621]

Ignatius had knowledge of acts of Jesus never written???

[@datalore8270]

@@carolinajackson7621 "Ignatius had knowledge of acts of Jesus never written???" John 21:25 tells us that Jesus did many things that are not written down. Ignatius knew Polycarp and both of them were taught by John. So this is not much of a leap. In fact, it's no leap at all unless you think that people can only be taught things through books. 2 Thessalonians 2:15

[@carolinajackson7621]

@@datalore8270 thks. I had forgotten that he might have been a disciple of John. Have a great day!

[@datalore8270]

@@carolinajackson7621 You too, God bless!

[@MythwrightWorkshop]

Any deep dive into what the gospel writers and Apostolic Fathers (EDIT: and the Anti/Post-Nicenean Fathers) actually thought--and what they authentically practiced--will lead you to the Catholic and Orthodox position on these topics. Any deep dive into historic heresies will show the beginings of Protestantism, New Age (Gnosticism w/ modernist twist), and through these, the underpinnings of secularist atheism.

[@Kyri33leison]

I’m also a convert (confirmation 2024) and to me what I found to be influential is the argument of St Card. J.H. Newman who says we should interpret Church history as we interpret the Bible - not without the eyes of the Holy Spirit. Obviously other factors motivated me but this point was presented to me at the right time (I had just developed an interest in the Catholic understanding of Sacraments giving grace).

[@alexs.5107]

This podcast is one of a kind: lot of substance.

[@benjaminshirley]

Something that surprised me as a SBC Baptist for 30 years with a history/archaeology background. I read Eric Metaxas' book on Martin Luther (I read it twice btw). I found myself siding with the Church on almost all of the issues Luther raised against the Church. This scared the c*** out of me, and began my search into Church history (unfiltered by SBC narratives). This lead to the realization the Reformation could be boiled down to a question of authority. Once you think about authority long enough its hard to push the Church away!

[@peterzinya1]

If you read CC history, you will come acroos Tyndale, Wyclif and Huss and others the CC hunted down, for the crime of getting bibles into the hands of the people. Smooth choice of religions.

[@Bob_Oxnard-sp1gr]

Top surprises as a revert: 1. How all the documentary writings of the early Christians are consistent with Ignatious (e.g., it is impossible to read Clement I and not see Roman church authority, and impossible to square Justin Martyr and sola fide) 2. How nothing in the early church writings supports any doctrine that is uniquely or distinctively Protestant or Evangelical. The opposite, actually. 3. How hard one myst strain to “interpret” the Bible to try to avoid Catholic doctrine. I used ti think Protestantism and Evangelicalism is super Biblical. I now see they are supra-Biblical - it is a belief system that elevates its man-made doctrines (e.g., sola fide, sola scriptura, and its 15th century or later takes on John 6 and baptism and salvation) far above and beyond the words of the Bible.

[@peterzinya1]

Theres noting in the writings of Joseph Smith that dont support Mormon superiority. Mormons must be the true church, because they say they are.

[@MathAdam]

I have now added “flapper doodle” to my personal lexicon

[@nyckmaia]

Amazing schollarship! Thank you very much Joe!! You are the best!

[@galaxxy09]

Thank you Joe! While I do appreciate your long form videos on occasion, I think 20-30 mins is the sweet spot. God bless 🙏

[@jabelltulsa]

This is far and away my favorite channel

[@kjcdb8er]

I'm LDS, not Catholic. But I can recognize the strength of the Catholic position. Protestants have no leg to stand on for their claims, and I'm always amazed they don't recognize the weakness of their position. they are more reliant at the root on man-made non-apostolic traditions than the rest of Christianity.

[@arsenicrice9990]

Ignatius’ connecting the bishop to the Church and that we ought to follow him as one would follow Jesus was key. It was only second to the famous letter to the smyrneans, after which reading I could no longer deny the first Christians held a Catholic view of communion.

[@AndrewKendall71]

All easy to agree with. But what are the boundaries on the church leaving the people? I know for centuries, when a church was bad, or a pope, the people merely stayed, trusting the grace of Christ. Is that what's in view as the church or her leadership strays from what Jesus established?

[@stephenyoung8069]

I love these. Please discuss William Tyndale, it's one of the more obnoxious protestant myths.

[@powerlessburger]

This is going to be the highlight of my day

[@jmctigret]

I started to read Early Fathers in the 90s, I converted to the Catholic Church 1997.

[@clarekuehn4372]

"The Pope", an expression meaning Papacy eternal, yes. Not this current claimant to the office.

[@bumponalog5001]

I would have picked a different Pope for the thumbnail personally…lol

[@SaintSasquatch]

198 comments in 2 hours is amazing. Praise God to see Joe continuing to take off.

[@mikeyangel1067]

Wow, delightfully scholarly and inspiring 😀🙏🎸

[@eduardobauche1211]

Me too profited from the father in my conversión to Catholic faith

[@neillarremore8779]

My ahha moment was when I realized how almost the entirety of the Catholic mass is straight from the Bible. As well as the daily mass readings lead you through the Bible, not just the same few passages that where read over and over again, as was done by the church I attended when I was younger.

[@carolinajackson7621]

Hebrews says several times that Jesus was sacrificed ONCE AND FOR ALL. The reenactment of Jesus's sacrifice is not biblical. Jesus is resurrected, glorified & in Heaven. He is not on a sacrificial altar

[@neillarremore8779]

You misunderstand but that’s ok we can disagree.

[@carolinajackson7621]

@neillarremore8779 Hello! If you think that I have misunderstood something, maybe you can explain me why there is even a part in the Mass called liturgy of the sacrifice, when Jesus's sacrifice was once and for all (Hebrews 10). Thks.

[@neillarremore8779]

@@carolinajackson7621 if I may refer you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I can explain init in much greater detail than a KZbin comment. A good starting place is section 1362-1367. I hope that clarifies your questions.

[@NicoMartinez-pk4xr]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@carolinajackson7621we completely agree it’s one sacrifice for all. That is what the church teaches and has always taught.

[@IIAlexandreDumasII]

Last

[@johntatum-rn1pt]

The early church was orthodox.

[@RobertWCornell]

I will stay a Christian, because thats what the book of Acts called those who follow JESUS!

[@AquinasBased]

Do you think the book of acts tells you everything you need to know about how to run a church, which church to join, and how to practice the faith? If so, then explain how it does

[@carolinajackson7621]

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. Hebrews 1, 1'2 Jesus is God's final Word.

[@cianmoriarty7345]

Of course they were. Read any Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr. 150AD. 107 years after Jesus's Ascension. What he describes is scarcely different from Orthodox or pre 1969 Catholic teachings. Even Acts and the Epistles. It far more resembles Orthodoxy/Catholicism (the same Church till 1052AD) than Evangelical or Baptist worship.

[@drjanitor3747]

“Both are catholic” - shows picture of Francis 😂

[@atgred]

Is he not Catholic? You laugh at the one on the Chair of Peter?

[@Mason_O]

Calvin is my favorite theologian right now, but I was happily surprised this morning to see Jerome in a commentary on Mathew used by Aquinas in his Gospel Catena mention ignatius’s Epistle to the Ephesians ch. 19

[@bornagain6197]

Since 2 c all chruch is catholic. Not roman catholic. Catholic mean universal. Roman catholic start at 1055 after schim.

[@michaeljefferies2444]

I guess my struggle with this is this: why should Calvin have believed that anything in the long recension was authentic? There was blatantly interpolated and false material in all of them, why should he have believed the parts talking about the bishop or the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist was real while other parts of the letters were false? He is the earliest source to talk so stridently about the episcopacy, by about 65 years, and the middle recension wasn’t discovered until after Calvin. This may be a fair criticism against later Protestants, but I don’t think it is against Calvin.

[@NJWEBER18]

I think Joe did give Calvin some slack there, straight up saying Calvin was right about some things in the letters. The criticism he gave was towards both Calvinists and Catholics not working to objectively find the correct letters.

[@shamelesspopery]

Agreed! My point is not that Calvin was bad (or something) for not accepting the Ignatian corpus. At the time, with the evidence, that was a perfectly reasonable position. My point is that Calvin was right to see the Ignatian corpus (including the authentic letters) as super Catholic and a problem for Calvin's polity and theology.😊

[@martyshrader661]

I am still on the journey from Protestant to Catholic, but the biggest thing that made me seriously consider Catholicism is finding out the original KJV had all the books. I realize there were various beliefs about that but they were respectfully there for all to read and believe. And then found out they (the Deuterocanon) were removed about 20-70 years before my grandfather was born. In studying the critiques of the deuterocanon by Protestants I realized all the arguments were based on ridiculous assumptions. So then I wondered ‘well maybe my beliefs about baptism and communion (which by then were similar to Catholics) I should be more serious about too.’

[@feeble_stirrings]

..or Orthodox :) But that's a separate conversation. Excellent work Joe!

[@mariatr492]

Love the Church Fathers! The women's bible study group at our church did The Bible and Church Fathers last year and it was amazing to walk through scripture with their words as a guide.

[@mariocano2767]

Joe, I was hoping you were going to be wearing the same suit you had on the first day of the Catholic Answers Conference. That was 🔥. Maybe this Thursday?🙏🤞

[@Mason_O]

What is the “middle recension”? I have schaffs ANF set and in ignatius letters are both the shorter and longer. What is the middle?

[@MrRotwell]

Excellent. Keep up the good work! When I converted, I was indeed shocked by how not baptist the early church was. That sounds silly, but we had so ingrained in us that we were just going by the Bible that it seemed absurd to suggest the early church wasn’t doing roughly what we were doing.

[@RedWolf5]

As I read some of the comments from converts here I see myself moved to tears, I don’t know why but is just beautiful.

[@uncatila]

Why give the devil s spawn, Calvin, Credit? Take no quarter.

[@audreymarsh5090]

Just here to say that we need to being back the word “flabberdoodle”. 😂

[@coffeecat086]

The linking of history with the church and misconceptions of Protestantism were astonishing to me

[@Eleazar-v6t]

There questions than clarity if there was an existing pope during Ignatius time, what is he doing? it proves that there was no Pope during Ignatius time=no roman Catholic church

[@jdlee1972]

There was a bishop of rome.

[@susand3668]

What was he doing? Collecting food for the poor, celebrating the Sacraments, disputing with heretics like Marcion, adjudicating problems like Clement answered Corinth's need, and very often getting himself killed for being the head of the Church in the most dangerous city for a Christian to be in, right under the emperor's nose. The usual. Ignatius might not have named the pope in his letter to Rome because he might not have known who was alive. Ignatius was martyred around A.D. 107-110. Pope St. Evaristus, pope from about 97 (98? 99?) to about 105 (106? 107?) was said to be Greek, with a Palestinian Jew for his father. His successor was Pope St. Alexander I, pope from about 105 (106? 109?) to about 115 (116?). He was said to be Roman by birth and to have added the Latin prayer to the Divine Liturgy of the Eucharist that begins "On the night before He died..."

[@RedWolf5]

He describes the presidency to be in the country of the Romans then read Pope Clement who is named in the Bible.

[@Freef_01]

My initial push to Catholicism (other than Fulton Sheen) was my personal failure to understand scripture. The more I read the Bible (from Genesis to Revelation), the more confused I got by contradictory conclusions, and how every website could have multiple contradiciting explanations. Then I asked God how it could be that anyone understands him if there are so many answers. Little did I know he already gave us an authority for interpretation.

[@peterzinya1]

The bible says what it means and means what it says. No need to interpret.

[@Freef_01]

@@peterzinya1 Have you read it from start to finish without pre-supposing a certain theology? It's a book that constantly switches between war and peace. Genocide in one part, then a loving promise of God in another. My expectations were shocked. It's why we've got more denominations than we can count, something not really present in other religions as far as I know.

[@peterzinya1]

@@Freef_01 Hi. I have read it from A to Z but skipped alot of Numbers and Deut. No denominations needed. Its just you and Jesus. Who cares what denominations think? I dont. The Lord is my Shepherd, he leadeth me to still waters. Yes God had lots of people wiped out. And he favors his people of Israel. He created all this for his pleasure. He does what he wants. Like it or not. One bit of advice i need to give you friend. Leave that catholic church alone. People read catholic literature which says the CC is gods true church. I wish i had a nickel for every church that says that. The CC used to get rid of people tryingto get bibles into the hands of people. The CC outlawed the bible. Thats cause it is owned and operated by Beelzeebub himself. You want interpretation of scripture? The CC takes the 2nd commandment to mean...make as many graven images as you can and bow down to all of them. Are you going to trust the CCs interpretations when its flock is on their knees befor idols? read the bible for yourself. Believe what you read.

[@smart_joey_4179]

How could I find your email to get in contact with you Joe? I got a video idea for you and have most of the material for it.

[@normmcinnis4102]

early 'church father' scriptura.

[@paulrodgers252]

the Ro man Latin Word is Catholica

[@JordanToJericho]

Re Title this video to "More Proof that the Early Church was Orthodox" lol ☦ Love my Catholic Brothers though, keep strong in this world that hates us both.

[@AquinasBased]

I love my Orthodox brothers but the papacy is real

[@mmbtalk]

I don't think these arguments are not a problem to Protestants, because Ignatius is not infallible and what ever he says must be compared with the word of God

[@shamelesspopery]

It's not a question of infallibility. It's a question of basic reliability. If the Christians who knew the Apostles came away claiming that this is what they taught, it seems to me that one of two things follows: (1) it's what they taught; or (2) the earliest Christians are completely unreliable witnesses. And (2) is a major problem for Catholics and Protestants alike. After all, how do we know which books belong in the New Testament? Largely because of the witness of these earliest Christians, and what they said about the apostolicity and orthodoxy of these books. And if they're THAT unreliable, how can we trust that they even got that question right?

[@ContendingEarnestly]

Bingo!

[@ContendingEarnestly]

@@shamelesspopery Demas knew Paul then deserted him. Would you trust Demas? Hymenaeus and Philetus knew Paul too yet their teaching on the resurrection is wrong. Youre putting too much stock in those who are not apostles. *After all, how do we know which books belong in the New Testament?* This is a canard. Most of the n.t. books were considered inspired by the end of the first century. Others took longer, but since no one had a check list of 27 books they were marking off, the total number is arbitrary. Today we have 27 books but what they had in the first century they knew was of God. Youre putting the cart before the horse.

[@mmbtalk]

@@ContendingEarnestly To add on, I don't know where the Catholics get the idea that to be saved you need the full Canon of scripture, the Ethiopian Eunuch was saved by just reading a few verses of Isaiah as found in Chapter 53!

[@ContendingEarnestly]

@@mmbtalk Exactly. They just cast doubt on what we believe and then push us to think we need some infallible interpreter. We don't. And nowhere in the bible does it say we do.

[@tonysaid6184]

Please send this important video to ex Catholic Mike Gendron, and to big daddy Calvinist John MacArthur.

[@henrytucker7189]

@@tonysaid6184 gendron is a shameless grifter making his living off of ignorant and highly partisan Protestants

[@vtaylor21]

It seems to me Catholics and Protestants were too prideful to objectively tell which writings of Ignatius were fake or real.

[@susand3668]

Perhaps at first. Joe's explanation (starting around 7 minutes in) of how the letters could be sorted out demonstrates that ecumenical scholarship is possible. In fact, at 8:50, according to Pelikan, it is Protestant scholarship that identifies the authentic 7 letters.