Mormon Stories 1409 - Jared Hess and Tyler Measom - Murder Among the Mormons

Join me today for this amazing Mormon Stories interview as I talk to Jared Hess and Tyler Measom about the making of their new Netflix documentary, "Murder Among the Mormons."
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Timecodes:
00:00:00 - Jared’s Mormon Story
00:05:50 - respective interests in mormon history
00:12:09 - Prior attempts by others to make a Mark Hofmann documentary
00:16:28 - Jared & Tyler join forces - Beginnings of “Murder Among the Mormons” Production
00:21:50 - Finding interviewees & how the project evolved
00:36:24 - Attempts to meet Hofmann
00:39:50 - Church cooperation
00:49:10 - Hofmann’s early life and potential motives
01:02:19 - Hofmann forgeries
01:14:40 - Was there a coverup by Mormon church authorities?
01:25:25 - Bombings
01:39:00 - Potential accomplices
01:53:54 - Common questions from viewers
02:00:28 - How have people reacted to the documentary?
02:15:45 - Closing remarks
#MurderAmongTheMormons #LDS #MarkHofmann #Film #Netflix #Mormon

[@justshani8950]

I wish there was another interview with these guys more indepth. They sounds like they have so much more information.

[@jadejohnson3144]

Jared’s impersonations are on point 😂

[@doowop54]

Excellent - Your interviews are long - but they are so absorbing they never seem to long - thanks John, Jared, and Tyler

[@jmt1335]

LOL. “I was shovelling dirt in my yard Saturday” “Looking for treasure?”

[@bonitamig]

I would love for them to make a documentary of Joseph Smith!!!!

[@mindeloman]

There would have to be a multiple season series surrounding all of that. Palmyra, Kirtland, Far West, Nauvoo. People wouldn't believe just how deplorable a human being he was.

[@bonitamig]

@@mindeloman Yep. I would watch every one.

[@jadejohnson3144]

I want someone to do that so badly!

[@happix-mo4441]

That would be the most awesome revelatory (no pun intended) documentary. It needs to be told in all it's truthfulness.

[@johnhorner1969]

Yes, or a docudrama and have Aaron Eckhart play Joseph lol. It would be amazing. Somebody needs to do a real Fawn Brodie style docudrama series. Eight one hour episodes from different times. As a boy, young man, and through the founding until his death. It would be incredible. And hopefully would be all based on truth, which would destroy the church lol.

[@pattykake1076]

Thanks guys for making this great documentary. Now the rising generation can see how the top LDS Brethren handled the Hoffman affair... and that’s the real revelation. It also opened a window to other mormon white washings.Thanks John for hosting these two.... I loved it 💖

[@thecatman4ever]

John this has been a wonderful experience. I loved your interview with Jared & Tyler and their experiences behind the making of "Murder Among The Mormons". As with all of your prior interviews I could have listened to them talk about this for hours. A job well done!

[@bridad]

At 1.23.43, Tyler says, "they list every single document that they bought and there were hundreds of documents that they bought from Mark Hoffman. Many of them were small, little financial records and history records from a library that Mark found, they were meaningless for the most part." As a retired police officer and hand writing examiner, I reach a different conclusion. This is an example of an institution trying to get it's hand on every single piece of possible exemplar material for comparison purposes. Their fear that truly incriminating documents might be released can only be mitigated by buying up and hiding all possible sets of comparison materials. Mark Hoffman's motive was different. It was to establish sets of documents as authentic and then create forgeries consistent with the established set. Their behavior was that of an institution displaying guilty knowledge of historical facts well known to them.

[@coliostro1006]

I agree as well, because there could be incriminating evidence in those financial records if they were real. There is an entheogen theory that is gaining traction and if financial records showing purchases of certain items were found, it could have major implications.

[@characterwheaties]

Incriminating”? How so? Name the crimes they were afraid of revealing. Speculating that an institution buys documents in order to hide what they might contain is no more valid than speculating that it buys documents in order to not hide what they contain. That’s how easily pure speculation falls apart.

[@Hallahanify]

​@characterwheaties the fact that they buy them and hide them away in a vault says otherwise

[@caseyjude5472]

Great interview! I promised my family I would wait until this weekend to start watching it together, really looking forward to it!

[@LizardsLore]

Dear John Dehlin.. my mother has a message for Jared Hess... “Thank you for Napoleon Dynamite. I never in my life thought that Preston would be a great setting for a horror film (Napoleon Dynamite).” Side note: Mom grew up in Preston, ID

[@LizardsLore]

SIDE SIDE NOTE: she actually loves that film, and the above statement is a joke 😂😂

[@tamaralambert2853]

“How can I make some sweet cheddar ...on the forgeries...started on the mish.” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🏼

[@cmiuracox4216]

Great interview! Thank you. Just one thing, I was really hoping you would delve into Jared Hess’ “very affectionate and complex relationship to the faith”.

[@darlenewoolf6767]

I love this interview! These guys are hilarious!

[@redsox19521]

LOL Donny and Marie are the whole reason I discovered Mormon Stories. Get them on!! These guys are great!

[@MsFuzzyBuddy]

What a great episode, I learned so much and I'm re-watching the doc now. It's so great. Also, now digging on Gerald Tanner...

[@jameswalberg3265]

Blockbuster is an understatement. So much fun to listen to the backstory. The time flew by. So glad they made time to expand on the documentary. And especially their warm shout out to the Tanners !!!

[@deeess1739]

So truthfully amusing! Thank you for this awesomeness! 3 years free from the deception!

[@Hiddenphanton17]

as a non Mormon but I have a lot of friends who are and I have done years of my own research into the church, I found it very interesting and wish it was longer. I will admit after the 3rd/final episode, I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't more. Hopefully there will be a dvd release with all the extra footage as extra features.

[@brettneuberger6466]

Now I see why Napoleon Dynamite was so damn funny....and quirky. Tyler holds his own too. Loved the film! Thanks for the interview, John.

[@marionphillips5485]

Just saw this series. My heart breaks for the families involved. The show is excellent.

[@phoneboothe]

48:07 - close your eyes and listen. I am shocked at how good the impression quip is of D Oaks! Very impressed. Overall very entertaining episode.

[@tamaralambert2853]

Not long enough! ❤️👍🏼

[@victoriachristian4379]

Great interview! John, you are to be commended for making it through to the end with these guys! They are hilarious!

[@eamonloughrey8788]

These guys are hilarious.... Love this

[@losttribe3001]

James Randi is one of the most influential people on my life who I’ve never met and An Honest Liar is An Honestly Good documentary! Murder Amongst the Mormon is an excellent documentary despite, as a former Mormon now atheist, I feel that they pulled punches on some of the troublesome aspect. But they did great and this was a joy to listen to.

[@temple13]

I really, really loved An Honest Liar. Never knew the film maker was (ex)LDS, not that it changes anything. There were some punches pulled - but ultimately I felt pretty satisfied with the treatment of Hofmann and the LDS church.

[@losttribe3001]

@@temple13 I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who didn’t know the director was an ex Mormon. But that’s why he’s a good documentary director, it’s about the subject. But also as an atheist, I thought An Honest Liar showed we are human also. That James Randi was human also. But let me reiterate in case it’s confusing; I liked this documentary a lot and would recommend it to anyone. I acknowledge that I may have expect more as an ex Mormon obsessed with why Mark Hoffman was problematic for the Church ands truthfulness, but I get why they didn’t include somethings. It’s my hang up and I’ll deal with it accordingly. But for anyone not familiar with the Church, i readily admit it could have been a real slog and taken people out of watching it.

[@laserwolf65]

I loved the docu series, but I really was intrigued about the references to non-Mormon-Hoffman-forgeries. I wish I could've learned a bit more about those, too.

[@LavaMan60]

Brilliant. I loved watching it. It was done from the right perspective IMO. The sadly ironic parallel's between Mark Hoffman and Joseph Smith were easily drawn.

[@bricarma524]

I would have tuned in for 6 hours, no doubt. To be honest, I watched the series, did some more learning about the story and watched them again :)

[@christophekeating21]

The sad thing about the documentary is it's TOO SHORT!

[@andreadiamond7115]

Great docuseries, just a shame they had to cut it in half.

[@happix-mo4441]

I really enjoyed this interview. It amazes me the investigating these two had to do! I wouldn't even know where to start looking for all this information. I love that they didn't try to sway people one way or the other because the story definitely told on the church itself. Great job on the documentary and good job on this interview John, serious, funny, interesting!

[@livehealthyfinishstrong]

Great interview. It is impossible to not like both of these guys!

Thank you, thank you!!! The documentary on its own was fantastic, but having this extra input for the Mormon history lovers is 🔥 🔥🔥

[@ellenc48]

What an excellent discussion! These are two great researchers, and both are engaging story tellers, which makes the content quite enjoyable to listen to.

[@pattycoe7435]

This pod cast was fascinating to me. I love watching true documentaries and it was wonderful to see the story behind it.

[@taniamarino2328]

Great interview!! Thanks John, and Jared and Tyler!

[@sonyalazanya7]

These guys were hilarious. Glad you had them on.

[@rubendhoyos9886]

Yay on my birthday!!

[@adamblackdiamond]

Tyler and Jared, You should make a movie/ documentary of Porter Rockwell.

[@BIGE1312]

Two thumbs way up! Great interview!

[@dreamsenvoy]

Slightly off topic and slightly amused that there is a Mormon commercial when going to watch this

[@SunShine-og4ux]

These guys are great! Likey.

[@benjamingardea4511]

These guys are awesome. I need some tots now though.

[@HelloThere6043]

That Oaks impression at 48:07 was stellar 😂😂😂😂

[@nightowl8548]

I read this about Shannon Flynn "According to Bennett, Flynn underwent a lung cancer diagnosis in 2018 and had to get surgery to get a part of his lung removed. Because of this, Flynn's voice completely changed, and the raspiness is due to many medical factors dealing with the breath and lungs" This explains his difference in voice, but not his crazy behavior or body language.

[@StephanieSoressi]

I want the other 3 hours! Tons of us have watched EVERYTHING related on every channel!

[@larryballard4475]

I have read several books and lived through the Hoffman episode. This was one of the issues that began to raise questions within myself regarding the degree of "discernment" that church leaders actually had. Then the myriad of issues that Hoffman brought to the forefront regarding sketchy historical issues played on my mind and heart. His aggressive approach could have pushed certain issues regarding the truth claims of the LDS church could have been brought to light had he not been a psycopath and murderer. I have often wondered if he had not done the bombings; rather been honest and confessed to his deception how it would have actually led to some intriguing outcomes. Unfortunately he left a tainted hue to the real issues his exploits were uncovering.

[@MormonBookReviews]

Great interview! I'm glad that John brought up Rick Bennett of Gospel Tangents. I just wish that the producers of Murder Among the Mormons would've acknowledged Rick's role in securing Shannon Flynn for their project. Also, I wish that John would've asked about who has ownership of all the filmed material that didn't get shown.

[@mormonstories]

Netflix owns it all.

[@MormonBookReviews]

Thanks for the answer! Is this John?

[@GospelTangents]

@@MormonBookReviews Thanks for the shout-out. My role really was pretty insignificant, and I'm sure Tyler would have tracked down Shannon with or without my help anyway.

[@laura9987]

I started watching it but it felt boring to me as I had no idea of the mormon church, but after watching "Keep sweet" about the FLDS church I went back to watch "Murder Among the Mormons" and it was so interesting since I had a better understanding of that religion.

[@terryhuggins8414]

Excellent! Thank you.....

[@scottduede8134]

When I watched the movie this is about, the only thing my mom has suggested it so she was watching it with me. The whole time though, I just there pointing out which parts of the Salt Lake Masonic temple. It's a beautiful building, but I'm biased.

[@donnababi5767]

This is a wonderful interview....just incredible how this guy did all he did...being honest...how can the Mormon Church continue with all of these lies about Joseph Smith...the Church lied to me....because if people knew all of this they would not believe...but some will...with all I have learned from your podcasts and from my own beliefs...the Church is based on non-truth...so sad....Joseph to me just wanted attention and wanted to Marry all of these women and all the stuff he did..magic stones in hats and got away with it for a short time...he had his fame for a short time while being alive...and it's continued in his death...anyway...thank you John for bringing us your awesome podcasts...Great Job!

[@2022Coopersmom]

Thanks to Mormon stories I’m free of the guilt that I made all these covenants and how could I break them, even if the church is false. I heard an episode about informed consent and I walked away guilt free. I was lied to, I made those covenants based on a bunch of lies

[@donnababi5767]

@@2022Coopersmom I need to watch that one...it's very incredible how all of this history has been hidden from all of us...I am saddened by it...I have wonderful friends in the Church...but I will now choose how my beliefs are...I wish you all the best...I never did believe in having another Book...my book is the Bible...you can prove stuff in that...God Bless...❤🙏

[@redcurrantart]

The whole ‘I grew up on Kentucky Ave’ thing from the neighbor? Was that because it was kind of near where the Sheets lived (though they lived more towards Cottonwood I thought). At to Hoffman he was over in Millcreek up near Canyon Rim. Though I guess that Kathy is buried over in the Holladay Cemetery over behind the Cottonwood Mall lot. I wonder how all the nouveau riche people who moved to that neighborhood are feeling... if they’re getting a bit of the the ‘Dark tourist’ crowd tramping through after all the publicity.

[@janamckay]

Love. These. Guys!

[@charisepfahl7778]

Watching now on Netflix - Had heard about before - Not a Mormon but I study cults

[@blameitonben]

I knew Jared in college at BYUI!!! What's up dude!

[@GuitarBeast-xp8dp]

Jared Hess is my kind of funny. Great interview.

[@nancynurse]

Fantastic interview. Funny guys.

[@salsusmagnsu]

What happened to the live chat?

[@mjq243]

It's "Barth" if you're in the South of the UK or Bath - flat A if you're from the mid and Northern areas in the U.K.

[@chuckevans2009]

If there was one book to read about Hoffman what book would you recommend? Thanks

[@chuckevans2009]

Great read

[@keile513]

@1:49 omg I had a revelation you’d say that!😬😬😬

[@maxfrank13]

These gentlemen must put all of that research to better use, perhaps in a book or an extensive, comprehensive documentary or podcast series. It's so sad to hear the depth of their research and how much the Netflix limited series is abridged. Give us the scholarly version gentlemen.

[@derekdraws]

Kohl Glass name drop on Mormon Stories?! Nice.

[@michealcobia7869]

I would recommend they look at doing another Netflix production on the Lafferty brothers. Ties right into this.

[@ginawhite4808]

I always am confused why people included "adopted" when discussing their child(ren). I assume it's to minimize possible questions &/or to normalize adopting but it makes me feel the opposite. JMHO

[@44dton]

Did the church buy off Mark? He wouldnt shut up then silence! I know hes not sleeping on piles of cash but maybe they are paying for his kids and wife or something? It just doesnt make sense why he is so quite.

[@jaymanmason2444]

Most likely, the LDS church has hundreds of billions of dollars.

[@robertofunk673]

No one mentioned in this whole interview that when Hoffman was convicted of 2capital crimes,&death by firing squad was still in force,that Mark s father insisted he take death by firing squad!Why was this not mentioned?"there are some sins for which the blood of Christ cannot atone,so you must have your own blood spilled to atone for them"¡It was church doctrine from 1856 to at least 1870,secretely thereafter. Gary Gilmore FLDS.took the firing squad,one of the last executed this way soon after this time. So why not let that all rest&just accept,what apostle John says in 1John1:9,"the blood of Jesus Christ,His Son cleanseth us from ALL SIN"!😊

[@christopher6082]

Was the blond guy briefly in Bill Maher’s Religolous?

[@marionphillips5485]

In many of your videos you talk about the Brethren. Who are they?

[@mormonstories]

Top 15 church leaders

[@shae4thirty]

I had the same thought. That he wanted to injure himself and distract people. He's too smart to f that up.

[@timisa58]

They were conned. That simple. They do not have the gift of discernment and are not prophets, so no need to blame them for the deaths. The LDS leadership are not specially gifted people of any kind. They are as human as any other human being.

[@markturner5207]

Nice work Jared Hess. Not living in Utah I didn’t know anything about this story. Very interesting, I had no idea until the second episode it was Mark Hoffman. John you try so hard to find a modicum of fault with the church. Too bad you couldn’t on this one. I don’t believe God expects anyone with the gift of discernment to go around thwarting anyones right to their own agency. The gospel has been restored and is true. The “people” in the church are not always true, I know there have been times in my life that I haven’t been, they are human and are fallible to make mistakes. Lastly John, your bitterness is not becoming, watching you is like watching the degradation of Dorian Gray…

[@pillettadoinswartsh4974]

Want some ironic comedy? "After Hofmann was imprisoned, he was excommunicated by the LDS Church and his wife filed for divorce. Hofmann attempted suicide in his cell by taking an overdose of antidepressants. He was revived, but not before spending twelve hours lying on his right arm and blocking its circulation, thus causing muscle atrophy. His forging hand was thereby permanently disabled."

[@pillettadoinswartsh4974]

If Satan existed, and he wanted to both confuse and mislead human beings, while at the same time endlessly entertain himself, he would create........religion.

[@terriannehigby4095]

Is it possible Hoffman was black mailing Hinckley? From what I've learned the last 3 years, Hinckley had a shady side. I was shocked because I really liked Hinckley.

[@jeandixson5610]

My Moran nephew told me he had nothing in common with older women. That was just one in a long line of reasons why I don’t think Morgan is a religion I think it’s a money cult and nothing more!

[@deanchappell1314]

Study the characteristics of narcissists. They all have a talent where they are perfect. For Mark he perfected calligraphy style writing of the 17 and 18 hundreds. Covered his talent with his outward chicken scratch writing. The deception gives a narc what is called supply. This is what drives them, a drug like high that they are addicted to. Most don't really believe in God because the world revolves around them. They are God. We are the pawns, pawns to be manipulated, and do their bidding. They use people. They have no conscience. They are fake people themselves, and are very afraid of being found out. Mark Hofmann fits the mold.

[@oy3ah2025]

-OY3AH! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ .5

1:07:36 😂 👰 🤰

[@quacks2much]

Get these apostates out of here. We don’t need no long-haired, hippy types in these parts. Just kidding. I hear temple workers can’t have beards now. Long hair on men was frowned on in the 60s & 70s, except a guy who looked like Jesus in my ward who scammed some of the Mormon farmers by selling them non-existent, automatic irrigation systems. Farmers paid, “Jesus” absconded. Now, I could care less if anyone has beards or long hair, and lots of other things, after I became an ex-Mormon. Now, character, not looks matter. I became so much less judgmental after becoming an ex-Mormon and an atheist, I no longer recognize my former Mormon self. I still need to work on not pre-judging people who believe in a god or are religious, but my atheism, more than anything helps me judge people (for example, gays) less.

[@lucysteiner4556]

I’m Australian and a lawyer. Found your doco fascinating. Really interested in the forgery stuff- can you make another one about the forgery? I’m not a Mormon. I have a serious question. Why are there so many crazy religious cults in America? I

[@lucysteiner4556]

Loved Napoleon Dynamite by the way. My daughter and I loved Indi Films and I took her when she was 14. Big hit. Now my daughter is a production designer in LA. She did a masters at AFI on a scholarship from Screen Australia.

[@deebishop5505]

These gay men did a great job of showing how a documentary lgbq style can show a different perspective of history.