Most FPS games avoid doing this... and for good reason

Have you ever wondered why games avoid simulating the whole of the player's body? In this video I discuss two commonly used techniques for rendering a first person player perspective including drawing the player's hands separately and using a full body awareness system. This video also showcases the full body awareness system I have developed for my game Rift Division.
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SUPPORT THE GAME ON PATREON:
/ riftdivision
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Chicken head stabilisation video:
• Chicken Head Tracking ...
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#devlog #gamedev #unity #multiplayer #fps

[@oracuda]

the most important reason for the "True FPS" approach is that for tactical games, or games that emphasize cover and positioning in general, need the player to see something which is accurate to what other players are seeing. getting a good angle peek in arma, squad or post scriptum/squad44 is such less of a pain then getting the same peek in a disaster of a game like harsh doorstep for example.

[@HKM4A5]

Even Squad uses true First person system But their First person animation are still different from third person And most true first person games have same issue of clunky, floaty, less impact and less polishing compare to game uses actual viewmodel system or game with viewmodel animation like in mind

[@budgetcommander4849]

Also, Arma is Arma.

[@oracuda]

@@HKM4A5pretty sure the animations are the same, but somehow "simplified" for other players, including using simpler models which miss some stuff (like the zero setting)

[@HKM4A5]

@@oracuda contrast to your believe of "simplified" animation on 3p. No, not really, SQUAD uses different rig than Unreal default rig, their rig actually has camera bone. While basic firearms will have only hand and arm motion. Emplacement weapons will have body fully animated because they don't have to deal with locomotion

[@HKM4A5]

And about the accurate display of angle peaking for other player Tarkov, Ready or Not, have Viewmodel animation system, with share bone hierarchy, they still manage free look, and other features of true fp tactical game but having way better animation and gunplay than other true fp game

[@itdobelikedattho8112]

Why does the soldier run so cutely

[@iwantchocolate8017]

he hapi

[@snowcrow8784]

:3

[@ct_tropical1451]

:3

[@Felle1-5]

:3

[@alface935]

He cute

[@codingdaniel]

To be clear tarkov isnt using any full body system, its still the normal fps approach

[@deluxeonyoutube2973]

I was wondering

[@MissinginAction]

no it is, there's no third person animation required because the arms go and animate with the body. they also use final ik

[@JadeStarLP]

You can free look when locked in some animations like using keys on doors and you can very plainly see that the game does not render the torso of the person playing.

[@MissinginAction]

@@JadeStarLP the game doesnt render the torso in first person, but it renders everything else but the head exactly the same as it does in third person.

[@AxiamWolfe]

@@MissinginActionTarkov kinda has it both ways, because the first person player model + gun is still rendered separately from the rest of the scene. Most obviously, your gun, arms and legs do not change with your camera FOV setting. At the same time, your barrel position and bumping of the gun when too close to walls is very much similar/the same as the third person character.

[@alvagamer5477]

tbh the fixed to the head camera option works for a realistic "headcam" or "bodycam" view

[@RedTail1-1]

Yeah if you're making a film. Not if you're playing a game.

[@alvagamer5477]

@@RedTail1-1 dude do yourself a favor and search "unrecord game" or "bodycam game"

[@EdyAlbertoMSGT3]

@@RedTail1-1 Are we just gonna ignore the games that were made around the concept of the headcam?

[@asdfghjkl-jk6mu]

@@EdyAlbertoMSGT3 yeah, because it doesn't work long time. you'd get sick of it after a while.

[@Tvngsten]

Super underrated channel

[@foklin9698]

Amazing video as usual. For anything multiplayer having 2 sets of hands is painful to develop, I've been loving having to implement full simulation, with the added benefit that, everything the player sees, other players see as well. Keep it up!

[@razrazi-ci5lc]

gg

[@TechnicalGamingChannel]

Star Citizen fully simulates the player model too. They do a lot of similar stuff to what you're doing to solve for excess bobbing and animation.

[@HKM4A5]

Also there are more reason games dont use true first/third person Animation by having traditional viewmodel system, the Animators can have more freedom to make way better animation than having share 1/3p animation And correction, tarkov doesn't use true first third person like arma, they still have traditional viewmodel animation, but bone structures are identical to the character so the animation can be reuse

[@yes_and_so_what]

TABG follows the same using the model for the actual player camera but in that game the character is more if a lax style where your body fails around a lot due to ragdoll physics

[@P1sodize]

What is "TABG" ?

[@yes_and_so_what]

@@P1sodize TABS br edition featuring: the french, Glockinator, & double barreled minigun as a mode of transport

[@luisalfonsocecilio7374]

​@@P1sodize Totally Accurate Battlegrounds

[@SuperAgentAlex]

@@P1sodize Totally Accurate Battlegrounds. It's a battle royale game but the player is a ragdoll, basically. There's more to it but you'll have to play to find out and it IS free.

[@arlamdae2551]

So glad to see Arma 2 logo instead of latest release, as an Arma 2 loyal player.

[@icarusswitkes6833]

I love the full body simulation in mirror's edge it really helps with immersion

[@On1xjjj]

i would say that its worth it to have atleast a little headbob instead of fully stabilized, it seems almost "floaty" when its not bobbing, just adds some more heft and weight to the feel if it bobs.

[@RiftDivision]

I agree, the current plan is to have the head fully stabilised for the first person character, and then for the other players in the world, have some head bob so that they don't appear floaty.

[@Limit19970]

@@RiftDivision I think he means having some headbob in first person. So, not having first person fully stabilised; just have it stabilised enough to eliminate all the little micro shaking, but still have the first person camera bob a little when walking/running/sprinting.

[@illeatmyhat]

If you do this you should definitely add an accessibility option to disable this for motion sickness purposes. It also sounds tricky to balance this because the bobbing will affect bullet spread.

[@Limit19970]

I always much prefer games with consistent full body simulation for the reasons mentioned. It's much more immersive, and it means there is not a disconnect between what you see, and what other players see, which means less incidents of, for example; getting shot by a player who had not peaked their weapon around cover on your end.

[@Kage_Furiku]

I haven't seen people saying that Star Citizen uses this in-world FPS mechanic too - the list of game titles near the end reminded me of said game.

[@bulletghost3452]

Ground Branch has the best true fps as it is quite important in most CBQ areas of some missions.

[@Wandering_Economy]

Damn man, I was surprised to see you didn't have more subscribers, hope to see you grow!

[@abdullaheta]

Ur super underrated, i hope u get bigger

[@kidpidjie]

very nice stuff man, keep it up

[@deluxeonyoutube2973]

I thought tarkov used viewmodel n then just slapped on the legs similar to squad

[@jimbob15515]

You're correct.

[@jeffzkiller3590]

@@jimbob15515he is wrong, tarkov does not use a viewmodel for weapons

[@AxiamWolfe]

@@jeffzkiller3590weapon and arms aren’t affected by the FOV setting at all. A bit weird when playing at high FOV and the weapon is still massive on the right of your screen.

[@Lucas-cf5sz]

i noticed a lot of games don't have a different animation for when ADS vs. holding the weapon low. When spectated.

[@enderfire3379]

Cool video. Infromative, straight to the point

[@KindaGhostyy]

The part where you speak on the way that the hands and gun are rendered over the game world, i vaguely remember learning that from someone who was talking about the same thing but used some team fortress 2 footage to model what he was talking about. Can't remember the persons name but the technique used to pull this off is so fascinating to me.

[@TRUFANATIC]

Garbaj maybe?

[@k3y.mp4]

nice! i also think it would be cool if the head went down to the rifle instead of the weapon going up to the face like in most games, since in real life you dont move your rifle while aiming down the sights but rather move your head

[@satanicdude]

Star Citizen has hands down the best unified player model first person. Also Tarkov uses generic 1st person rig+legs.

[@NicoLas-xy3ew]

it actually kinda looks realistic that the POV moves with the head, probably what they've done with multiple realistics game ngl, but still cool effect.

[@ihatejewgle2921]

The FEAR games also have full body awareness. It added a lot for the immersive experience.

[@dimitriorelnov7851]

Arma 3 simulates the whole body and i guess that's part of the reason why the character feel so inconvenient in movements. and in battlefield 4 when characters turns their head first before turning thier body, i wonder what will it looks like if i rotate my view and press W to move forward. another intresting is the "leaning", in R6S you press Q and E to lean and when you see others doing it while shooting it's just so stupid that they switched their hands and the stock of the gun magically slowly trucked acrossed the chest to another shoulder. in arma however, leaning and switching shoulder are two different bottoms, and switching shoulder takes a brief moment before you can actually shoot the gun

[@K.Dilkington]

I believe Squad also uses the full body system

[@kek_w_me_boi]

TABG also does this

[@raspiankiado]

And if anyone has ever asked the question "What is the Human Eye's FoV?" It's about 60-70 per eye. So, 120-140 binocular. In games, FOV 65-80 is my comfy range. Depends on the game. Minecraft, 80. Rainbow 6, is around 65/70.

[@jeffzkiller3590]

vertical or horizontal fov?

[@dav356]

@@rmk_1 Put the flat of your hands perfectly perpendicular to your forward direction and move them next to your eyes. You can see the side of your hands in your peripherals. Your eyes can see more than 180 degrees around you horizontally.

[@barrupa]

the combined field of view of the human vision is about 170 to 180 degrees and this is easily verifiable by standing in a T pose and waving your arms up and down. The binocular field of view, on the other hand, is of about 120 degrees, there being about 60 degrees of no overlap (monocular vision). The issue, in the end, is that our vision is only moderately sharp in a cone of around 4 degrees, the rest being notably blurrier the further away from the center of vision you go, making our brain need to "fill in" the rest. So to simulate human vision you would need a VR setup with around 120° of field of view per eye or a full 180~240 degree wraparound display.

[@Lorentz_Driver]

Quake pro or bust

[@Visstnok]

You just pulled those numbers out of your rear, lmao.

[@Btomaek]

destiny 2 has legs and arms on the camera layer but thinking about this more, you would need to have a modle that's split to make it optmized in this method that you have made

[@nova_the_maid]

That m4 is the size of a nerf pistol.

[@nintendians]

i mostly thought that it's usually in a fix place with the game camera tied the body and have other options to stop the bouncing going up and down fast and when its turning around - it's mostly the body rotating on the z axis.

[@mark__glass]

I think I've seen one game that models what rifles actually looked like with world-based inertia as you were running independent of your body (eg. run with a kettle-bell, the kettle bell stays somewhat aloft in a flatter trajectory than your body does as your limbs negotiate the inertial mass of the kettle-bell). It's probably the only game even that felt like your rifle had mass, to be honest. I think it was one of the America's Army releases... maybe in 3rd person view mode. Don't forget that depending where your point of focus is, the sensation of "bounce" from a human first person can also be mitigated (eg. imaging looking to the horizon versus your body's roaming translational angle of your eyes in looking at a nearby wall).

[@ReclaimingVigil]

Another Indie developer here, if you don’t mind a little bit dirtier approach; you can parent the camera to a boom that keeps it at eye level with the player model and also make it so that the camera moves forward with certain animations (to prevent the head going in front of the camera when the player is sprinting or crawling). The downside is that you cannot have the player look independently from the model unless it was sort of a limited thing (that could be excused as just eye movement instead of turning the head, but you can come up with your own excuse too lol)

[@SneedFeeder]

I assume the viewmodel and the game world are rendered on different layers to prevent clipping. Can't you have a full body on the viewmodel layer?

[@haydenstout2347]

Sounds interesting

[@SlurpyPie]

These aren't First Person Games but All three of the Max Payne games have mods that turn them into First Person Games and they almost work perfectly despite certain problems.

[@awaken7369]

1:47 "as you can see" *shows dayz clip in the background where you can't see shit because it's a pitch black night xD

[@v0xl]

i think you should disable the depth check for the player while in first person, just to prevent any remaining clipping issues from happening (it would just draw over)

[@OtterCynical]

I'm a bit surprised not to see Insurgency mentioned more. I'm not 100% about Sandstorm but I know the original Insurgency followed this model for a great touch of realism, along with fairly realistic ragdoll physics for the Source engine upon which the original runs. Still has an active and awesome community too, and and incredible library of Steam Workshop mods.

[@SasNolan]

GRIN - devs of Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter PC port - specifically MADE so that first persone anims and 3d person anims are one and the same anims. They made it work very nicely and games run superb. One of the best tactical FPS of its time.

[@davidvavrin1469]

TABG!!! it's an awesome free game try it and it has full body model

[@SianaGearz]

I liked the feeling of body presence in Crysis 2. And of course there's Mirror's Edge. None of these are fully body simulated systems, but the cues that they do have are well implemented. I also think newer games with body presence are similarly tricked.

[@mtganalytic9796]

I personally always play games with camera fixed inside head, it is my fetish

[@mtganalytic9796]

And when gun shoots only where it points

[@WhaIHuhWhatDoYouMean]

wouldn't you need to separate the camera movement from the players head so that they have normal animations? I noticed that with the camera stabilization the head seems robotic and eerily still, the fix for that would be to put the camera in the same place as the head but separate so that the stabilization doesn't mess with the model, no?

[@arcanealchemist3190]

one thing to consider, is instead of stabilizing the head of the character, which makes him move like a chicken instead of a human, you should be able to get a nearly identical effect by parenting the camera to the root of the player instead of the head bone. in addition, have the coordinate (relative to the root) be a preset value based on animation state. so when standing, its at standing height, when running, it is at the average position of the bobbing head's location, if the character is leaned forward enough to warrant changing it at all when running. for turning, simply parent the cameras rotation values to the head's rotation values, and place it more or less centered inside the head, but at eye level. tried to explain this in a way that would be agnostic in terms of engine, since i mainly animate in blender, and dont know what youre building your game in. also, probably still wise only to render what the player can see of their own model while in first person view, and utilize 2D render passes for things like HUD, screen affects like being bloodied or blinded, helmets and goggles obscuring peripheral vision, etc. gives you some extra room for artistic direction (which is important even in a simulation style game), and every little bit counts towards a well optimized game.

[@raisgamesnz325]

As a indie game dev that sucks at animating, I went for a full body rig. Less animating was worth the extra amount of work. :)

[@legendp2011]

i remeber it being all the rage back in the mid 200s. halo 2 and halo 3 had full body view. crysis had full body view. F.E.A.R had full body view

[@HerZeL3iDza]

I'm willing to bet most players who say they prefer a specific FoV don't know the difference between Vert and Hor calculations. For example someone says "I prefer 90 fov" but then play one game at 90 FoV horizontal and another game at 90 or 74 vertical (which equates to 121 and 106 horizontal respectively). The recent Battlefield games for instance use vertical calculation based on 4:3 aspect ratio. So picking 74 Vert is actually 106 Hor (same fov CS2 uses) not the 90 degrees the game is indicating. You would have to pick 59 if you wanted 90 horizontal (for a 16:9 monitor).

[@KhaosInductionCreator]

I’m no developer or animator, but could you not make an animation that both looks nice and works in both first/third person with few issues? I’m just curious why devs don’t ever really do this, if someone who does animation both first and third animations I’d love to hear what the issues would be

[@polskabalaclava]

Squad also used that system

[@deathcold_longplaysua4846]

There is also many other games that implement full body in first person view. Such as Crysis, Mirror's Edge, Left 4 Dead 1, Aliens vs Predator 2010, Chronicles of Riddick games, FEAR and many others. And I actually don't mind this, cause most of the time when only arms are rendered, it feels... unrealistic to some degree and it breaks the immersion. But I understand reason for why devs might not do this for their games.

[@Whiskah]

As someone who has only really used Unity in the past (especially since I'm a big fan of C#) I can't help but want to be tempted by Unreals BP's+C++ (Despite me being awful at C++) have you had any similar temptations to move over and learn Unreal over Unity?

[@emmaemp244]

How to keep first person model FOV independent in UE5? Changing the render matrix do not work.

[@kinemationstudio]

2:22 not really. Other players will likely see a different set of animations, as a real full body simulation will look unnatural in either first or third person. It is quite common in real production, where we use the same animation logic for both perspectives, with additional tweaks in runtime based on the current view. The real challenge in this whole workflow is reloads, as it is very difficult for animators to make it look good in both FP&TP. With full bodies you also need an IK pass, to handle things like ADS, weapon bone positioning, spine rotation, etc. The video sums up the true fps quite well, keep it up 👍

[@Verchiel_]

I've always kinda preferred a full first person body for the immersion there are games like doom eternal where i certainly wouldn't but majority? Be it something as usual as half life 2 or as silly as minecraft and skyrim, having a full body just feels that bit more interesting than. Nothing at all, nothing at all. It's certainly a lot of effort to implement by comparison, especially intending to implement it well, but it's something i appreciate.

[@RainCoatCult]

See, I'm working on a FPS using Godot and I'm having this debate now. I wasn't planning on having a full body but I wanted the player to have shadows so I'm not sure how to proceed. Looking at other games it seems player shadows in FPS are very uncommon but as I'm using shadow and light to create a certain mood, a lack of a player shadow seems odd. So far I'm just building everything else up and I plan on experimenting with a lack of player shadows to see how much of an effect it actually is.

[@OperatorDire]

I have always wonderd why and now I know but, I honestly don't see the reason's for it being not that great all that bad comparded to all the upsides it can bring. I feel actually being able to see your model as it opens up a lot of options for what could be done to make that mechanic and or just better for immersion. I also get the FPS side of things but, if you are playing a MP game then won't most still render a PM anyway.....

[@418im_a_teapot4]

I'm trying to recreate this in godot, but i don't have any idea on how to appy counter translations on the head

[@markcorrigan3930]

still no success?

[@418im_a_teapot4]

​​@@markcorrigan3930not exactly a success, but i just attached the camera to the head, then added different camera motion for idle, walking and running and called it a day

[@dorbacal]

Okay, but this comes with the side effect of having your player models look silly. The anti bobbing technique you show here just fixes the head into a single spot, which looks funny. Nothing wrong with your game being funny, but if that isn't what you're going for, why not just make the player not render their player model, and instead render a different player model but without the head and arms? That way you can also have the HUD arms and not have to worry about your gun clipping into the wall

[@nazdoesstuffYT]

Idk if call of duty does that method you suggested. It uses view models but you can see the legs in multiplayer.

[@R.SHIELD]

But what about cod games? You can see the body yet your weapons don’t collide with objects in your perspective

[@user-bh2fr3ey6x]

if im correct because it only renders the model... in player's perspective not in the real game world which make it not able to clip through

[@cmdrwilmot2696]

As user-bh2fr3ey6x said, that is just the traditional model, but with legs included as part of the player's view model. Adding legs to a view model doesn't prevent game devs from using the same view model render layered over the game world render method. I am not a game dev, 3d artist, etc. so I am sure there are complications I am not aware of, but the basic methodology should be the same.

[@MissinginAction]

fun fact: tarkov actually uses final ik for their player models

[@Infarlock]

1:26 this is how gimbals were created

[@Kenneth_Molotov]

I know dayz got the weapon model and body model in the same time, thanks to the engine

[@topminator2991]

why not just make the head invisible when looked from inside and have the camera relative to the player's position instead?

[@keeb__]

EFT uses a view model.

[@watercat1248]

In my game i use first method you showed on this video (i have) different animtion and camera layer for the player 😅 Do you know what the weird part at first in my game i have system to make the weapon to fire for barrel and i have system to make the weapon to look on the center of the screen. And that system works great in most part but wean i have seen how many extra stuff i have to make with this system i have say scrap this system my game don't try to be realistic so who if the bullet spawn for the center of the screen or not 😅 The game game im try to make it's inspired for old multipleyer shorter you collect weapon and item for the map and have fast pace moved that doesn't lose accuracy wean you move. Wail my game have insper for old shorters i have plan to add multiple unique mekanic in the order to make different like the slot system dual winding and the ability to use itme like granates like the call off duty. In my game the 4 different spots melee, small weapon, mid/big weapons, and item slots. 1. The player able to care 1 melee 2. The small weapon are weapon like pistos smg ect that player able to care up 2 weapon on the choice (doual wilding) 3. The player able to care one weapon off this categorie 4. On this slot i will have items like granate for example you able care 3 different and have button to them (the system is similar call off duty)

[@dirhit]

an easier way to do this would be to parent a camera to a root bone. nice video though!

[@karmakle4854]

star citizen also uses

[@josaicmosaic]

wait does rust have full body simulation? cause that game has a freelook and you can see your legs

[@alphasavagetkw6232]

@2:05 we soooo need this in Arena Breakout :\

[@Hybred]

Your explanation on field of view is slightly inaccurate, you word it like it's a good thing if a view model is unaffected by FOV but their needs to either be an option in game to let it be affected or to allow you to adjust it independently. Its extremely important for accessibility reasons like motion sickness, a lot of the time FOV related motion sickness is caused by the view model being too close to the camera and people feeling very claustrophobic so even with an FOV maxed out things still feel too "zoomed in" As a game dev & accessibility consultant for games this is something I've been pushing for in games so it bothered me slightly but still good video.

[@edmundscycles1]

THIS is why I love ArmA and DayZ

[@Kyrkis]

True First Person is so much more impressive and immersive than the traditional way of handling it.

[@RedTail1-1]

I'm confused. What does 90 Euro actually get you in Unity? The eyeball/brain simulator code?

[@birdmonster115]

I could be wrong but I think Black Ops 3 uses a full character model for first person

[@timo4463]

Nope but they tricks IT

[@HyperDevv]

how to make fps controller?

[@TV-MA.x_x.]

Can I wishlist your game? If so, where?

[@b1g_v3n0m6]

the forest and sons of the forest do as well if I'm not mistaken

[@taraskywalker453]

Two more notable games that do this are Star Citizen, and the upcoming Squadron 42

[@radfoxuk8113]

If you can render a pair of arms and weapons/tools, separately to the model that is seen "globally", why not render an entire separate model, unless your models are ludicrously complicated, this shouldn't be too system intensive, so you can have one model rigged with full animations, and one with reduced/negated animations, so from another player's perspective they can't see the stabilised head, or other body parts, it looks fully animated, headbobs and all. Squad an MMOFPS animates does it the way that is unusual, they stabilise the head and torso, looks very weird in freelook when looking at the shoulders to see the arms very animated and moving attached to an almost static torso, to my knowledge, but a downside is that it can have a lag on it that means the model can be facing another direction to the one the player is, usually no more than 30-40 degrees, but enough that if you think they aren't looking at you, you can be wrong.

[@markyrizz]

how about CS2 and Call Of Duty?

[@mohthenics]

0:49 what was this?

[@tacticalguy8046]

real

[@RafaPai84]

As many flaws Battlefield games may have, this is one thing that Battlefield does better than anyone else in the genre, and never receive credit for. DICE has manage to do this since BF3, improving character movement little by little, to the point where we can do everything in the smoothest and fastest way possible, from jumping over walls, windows, going trough doors, climing, sliding, proning in all directions, all of this without loosing any input response. It's the ultimate boots on the ground game, where you play like a arcade game, but your character is very grounded in the world.

[@razrazi-ci5lc]

I know that something call p.s did you know that and which. is best

[@enderborn017]

I don't know why everyone always says guns clipping through walls is a problem. I like it when games have that. Probably makes them feel more like a part of the world

[@dokugames]

Hey, my game 'Out of Action' uses full body also, if interested in checking it out.

[@Visstnok]

I really value "what you see is what you get". I think more gamers would be happier with less perceived polish than being "lied to" about what they're seeing.

[@timo4463]

Why? Soo much IS Lied about with that Logi WE shouldnt get any Kind of movie Set

[@puotek]

Naahh 😂 Arma III is already a thing since more than 10 years, that arma 2 logo caught me off guard

[@ShakedownUnreal]

True FPS games feel slow and awkward. I set up my game as a false FPS and that allows me to get better animations, camera movements, and a better overall player experience

[@relxsh243]

Another game that uses full body first person models is the finals

[@cataclyptic7307]

Why do fps games not show elbows ?

[@DarkSession6208]

What he did not talk about is how bad it is to animate a true first person approach. Its absolutely horrible because your arms and body is always in the way. Either you clip your own arms into your chest, your gun clips into your arms or something else. Also when twisting the hand, it also twists the rest of the body (the arms) which looks absolutely unsmooth and clunky. There was absolutely no game that got this right, TFPS animations are without exception always absolutely bad because the way it works. If you look at DayZ, ArmA III, Arma Reforger etc. the reason their animations suck so bad is because of TFPS not because they can't do it better. I had the same experience in Unreal Engine where no matter what you do and which tricks you use, it will always look WAY worse than a simulated mesh in first person viewport instead of rendering the same in 1st as in 3rd person. And problem is how clunky and bad the gameplay gets. If you turn, your body always turns with you, which means you have a annoying delay. Especially the weapon delay is unbearable in any shooter. And aiming is completely a joke. Compare the Gunplay of Arma, DayZ to something like battlefield. In Battlefield you have precise aiming, in the other two its so clunky and unprecise that you often feel like aiming on a pre defined grid that locks your weapon position. And if you start shooting its even worse because the animation only transfers to the weapon and not the whole screen giving you no good feedback of how the recoil is. Thats why recoil control is not a thing in those games. Im making a Game currently and was 1000% sure to use TFPS, until i actually tried to make it a smooth experience, but then i saw its not possible and normal first person is superior in any way, even its a SHITLOAD of more work, if i could choose i would stil use TFPS because its less work and has huge benefits like 1:1 replication of whats happening. But the clunky gameplay and animating is just breaking it completely. GTA V also uses this btw, thats why firstperson feels like a joke. I just tried to find one game that has TFPS and plays like a normal first person shooter. I did not find any, so its technically not possible right now, i looked and played through like 12 games which use this, no one was even remotely as good as a mediocre normal first person implementation. I also saw footage of Grey Zone which uses TFPS, you just need to look at the weapon model and know how much it messes up the general experience between the weapons are soo damn small and the anims also suck.

[@SgtKanyo]

".. and for good reason" So the good reason is being lazy?

[@chaseonthecase9191]

Arma does it

[@FurnishedIgloo]

what game is that at 1:49?

[@kidpidjie]

its dayz

[@satanicdude]

dayZ standalone* (spoiler: it's far worse than the mod) @FurnishedIgloo

[@megakillowning]

I still think devs are being lazy for not doing the full body system. ArmA did it pretty well, in fact I would say ArmA perfected it.

[@manender1020]

Most games don't need it, it is fairly complicated, and there's a programming principle of making things only when you need them Also not every dev is capable of properly making it, like Space Engineers, where the weapon is often simply not seen or is in very funky position (and I ain't even talking about the netcode lags that make your FPS hands completely screwed)

[@MelonMan666]

I wouldn't call it laziness. When crunching to get a game out with a variety of features you need to implement, I can totally understand why most Devs are not bothering with these systems. Also, I presume it's actually hard to make it look and feel right.

[@CubesAndPortals]

To test this argument, play Boneworks.

[@BoletusDeluxe]

The difference in complexity between separating first/third person rigs compared to a unified rig is astronomical and involves using some tech that you may not even have implemented in your engine. If you don't need it then don't do it, because it takes a while to make that system work.

[@Doug_Fany]

There's a lot of games that don't render your body, and I don't like it. There's 10 or more players (usually) in any FPS game, so why not just render your body?

[@fluxiousthefish3854]

or use ue5