MOTOVUDU - Trackday Rider Training: Part 4 - Body Position: Sitting Forward

[@motosurge]

A lot of people and pros even preach that there should be a fist between your nuts and the tank, but here we have Simon saying otherwise as well as Troy Corser, he preaches to sit as close to the tank as possible and they both make very valid points. Great vid.

[@bandhsilvers1]

Guess what feels best for u to use m8 everyone has diffent tricks of the trade

[@JamesTPzRoC]

Leaving some distance between so you can move freely to the side. If you do that right, you thigh will be firmly against the tank.

[@steelcityspeedshopj.r6942]

Ive been doing this naturally for years because of height disadvantage. Im 5’4 so i am a jockey of a rider. The further back i sit the worse my body positioning is and thus the less control i have over my bike. This works for me. Because it has to ya know. I can totally see a much taller rider of 6’0 or more having to sit back further cause of being so crunched up. Idk all i do know is each individual has his or her own style. And we all find what works for us. Great vids. Awesome knowledge ! Thank you so much

[@kawosz90]

I think that the optimal position is when you have no load on your hands when corner and you have support on the tank. As close to the tank as possible, but not too close so that the knee can be opened freely.

[@michaelwatkins8871]

So much content in such a short amount of time. I had been thinking about where I should be placed on the seat (front to rear), and this explains it exactly.

[@kenichicello86]

Look at these pearls of knowledge and experience!

[@roccocarlino067]

Ok, I have two bikes, 2017 Honda Fireblade SP and 2017 Suzuki GSXR1000R, the Blade turns better in tighter corners with my butt towards the rear and the Gixxer turns better more forward towards the tank. I also notice the Blade responds well to counter steering and the Gixxer likes to steer from pressure applied to the pegs.

[@DarkHorse08]

I can’t get a good lock in with my outside leg when I sit close to the tank. I’m about to lock in and take my weight off the clipons when I sit back in the sit which is how I’ve been taught.

[@alwynmcmath]

Simple. Clear. Brilliant. I sort of knew this, but somehow hadn’t connected. Now I have!

[@williamjyates1954]

He is such a cool riders rider. Good channel.

[@LL-cz5ql]

Ive tried both and can definitely say that letting my lower body move forward and around the tank fixed the lower back pain i experienced holding my butt further back and made me feel more connected to the bike. However i think a lot of people miss the nuance of transitioning between butt positions. I solved much of my lower back issues changing my foot position to the rear of the inside peg under hard braking on entry and using the heel on my outside foot to allow better lower body rotation, the down side of being close to the tank

[@looseparts]

Simon! I'm so glad you're going to be doing MotoGP commentary this year. Your common sense and tremendous experience will be great - Enjoy

[@fastmatt30]

I thought that was his voice lmao

[@foolspeedahead]

I’m over 6’ tall and tend to sit back. I’ll adjust the rearsets and give this a try.

[@one-of-us9939]

That makes sense. I like things making sense at speed. Thanks brother.👍

[@MrGhirbo]

Simon's way of riding uses a very hard front suspension setup! Being up on the seat keeps weight in the front. Forks sit more preloaded ... so he can more abruptly grab brakes... winning +0.1 sec on applying the brakes. Back wheel tends to rise but it is what he wants... to back it in... it is his style of riding. To not rise rear too much he likes to use engine braking alot. This will squat the rear suspension down... Rear suspension i think he likes them to be semi-hard.... probably to back it in easier/safer. If your suspension(damping,preload,SAG,rebound) is not set this specific way... then good luck not crashing following Motovudu's instructions! I love the videos but it is incomplete information if you dont understand suspension.... I still want to try his style of riding ...

[@adamchelchowski]

I literally love Your instructional videos and try to apply all tips to my riding as much as possible.

[@motovudu]

Glad you like them!

[@HORNET6]

This is gold!

[@259559ful]

i prefer this style to when hard braking, I find i can still go knee to knee quickly no problem

[@mattblackWILDXB]

I'm 6'4 and 105kg's on a 636, I'm assuming you shuffle back to get into the tuck position on a track ?

[@MrPninja]

Love the vids, but I’m a bit confused if I’m right up on the tank, it’s hard not to be twisted while hanging of, don’t know I’ll try your way and see how I go

[@jessiedivincenzo5215]

Agree. Being too far forward in the turns makes it harder to not ride crossed up. I've heard too many MotoGP pro riders say fist between the tank and your crotch for that exact reason. Braking I agree be forward it does help under huge braking, but I move back as I set up my turn which does unsettle the bike a little but i'm trailing off the brakes by then and it works.

[@The02wooley]

Love this channel

[@GiacintoMarcellino]

Now, I do understand that Simon you are a champ and rest of us well we should just listen but, what's your idea on the fact that basically every other school teaches oterwhise? Modern gp riders also sit very very far back under heavy braking so all of this leaves me a bit confused...one thing I do know is that I sit back and my arms do get tired...I'll try this next time to see how it feels but it would be nice to understand why so many advocates differently. Thank you for your time Simon.

[@motovudu]

it's very physical to not use support from the fuel tank area under hard braking. If you need to sit a little further back than the position against your fuel tank allows, then build up the back of your tank a little (with race seat foam or similar). I have noticed that different brands of tyres require the rider to be in different positions to get the most from them, so I agree that one rule for all may not always work, but i can confirm that hard acceleration on a 1000cc sports bike is just not optimal if you sit back (wheelie). The rider sitting forward and low will out accelerate the rider sitting back. I hope this helps.

[@GiacintoMarcellino]

@@motovudu thx for the answer! Really appreciate it. I will try to build the back of the tank a little cause when I sit completely forward my rear wheel lifts under heavy braking and I feel like I lose control of the bike...my abilities are definitely not there to handle that yet.

[@marlonvdw]

Does this apply to all corners or just the really slow ones after a straight? It sounds like this is the best position for hard braking and fast accelerating, but not for fast (back to back) corners. Please share your opinion 😊

[@filipbunalti]

I have similar questions about this concept as some of the other commenters. If I'm sitting far forward, the tank is driving a wedge up my crotch and making my knees point away from the tank. That, in turn, makes it more difficult to get a good grip on the tank. Do you think the tank size/shape is a relevant factor in applying this concept, Simon? With GP bikes, they obviously mold the tank to rider preference (famous case of Lorenzo on the Ducati), but for most of us, using production motorbikes, that's not really an option.

[@puks23031]

I follow all your tutorials and it's like even though I'm aware of things you say, they still surprise me the way you help us understand. But I have a doubt here. Say you're exiting out of a corner and you sit up front pushing the front down, if I get agressive coming out of the corner don't you think my rear would be all over the place and even a greater chance of highsiding coming out? Or do you suggest that sitting up front puts less pressure on the rear, thus fundamentally speaking less traction.

[@biketwat825]

Really confused, California Superbike school really criticised me for sitting forward......

[@papo140]

me too, although i personally ride closer to the tank so i can grip it better. But ive also heard people suggest to use both seating positions depending upon what youre doing. like sitting closer to the tank when braking. but sitting further back so you can move around the bike easier.

[@fastmatt30]

after riding their BMWs and i went to my R6, no way in fucking hell I can sit that far back

[@jamesnutt8555]

California Superbike School hasn't raced and won 500GP, Simon has

[@APEX_EVERY_CORNER]

@@jamesnutt8555well technically... Keith Code won 11 of 12 GPs back in 77-78.... but im glad this came up, CSBS i think may be out dated. JMO

[@sennithblacky]

I have seen the slide up to the tank and around it technique in an old track riding book. The author turns around the tank and brings the inner knee forward and down instead of to the side. The one fist between the tank guys confuse me. 😅

[@mrtz2796]

the thing is bike technology has evolved... simon comes from the 500cc gp days where frames were pretty bad compared to todays frames

[@KubuśpuchatekTVN]

I never knew why, but I always felt uncomfortable with this "fist distance". Now I have great reason to ride with balls sticked to the tank.

[@boxerali]

But sitting in the back helps work against stoppies. And you can open your knee more for Hanngingoff... or am i Wrong?

[@MrYoungkimba]

Hey Simon!

[@pags1981]

Thanks Simon, this is an area I'm struggling with (braking late and getting tired upper arms). Is the best way to learn it repetition until it comes subconsciously? Also I've started feeling both tires squirm a bit on closed throttle turns, is this normal as dont know if I can push more (on Dunlop D211 GPs and tire warmers @Hampton Downs International, first 4 corners)?

[@kmlopxyz]

Isn't it better to seat farther back and just squeeze your legs when braking?

[@nathanwiens108]

Depends on what you're doing. If you're just street riding and coming up to a stop at normal road speeds, squeezing the tank with your knees works fine because the braking forces and generally low and you're coming to a complete stop. But you're squeezing the tank to keep your private bits from being mashed into gel because you've got to keep physical distance from the tank. However, if you're braking hard for a corner at high speed, you want to have already moved your lower body off to one side or the other (depending on the turn coming up) and then braking. Your outer leg's thigh will take the brunt of the force of your body trying to slow down and reduce the load placed onto your arms trying to support yourself from going faster than the rapidly slowing bike. You'll also have your private parts out of the line of fire of the tank burying itself into your crotch. Instead your thigh will just take it without complain because there's nothing soft and delicate there, just a nice big muscle! You want to be set up, Part 3 in this series, just before you start braking heavily and well before turning the bike in. If you start moving your lower body as you add lean angle, you're upsetting the bike and doing way too much to the bike and potentially the bars.

[@garymanning8920]

Karl Marx Lopez that's what I was working on still not sure.....feels fairly good both ways ...which in physics should speak to the most effective way to ride or is it your riding style. Different if your 6 ft 3 like me or 5 ft 7 like my nephew. We bother weigh bout 199lbs leathers up.

[@garymanning8920]

Nathan Wiens what if I have two huuuggge balls. Just kiddn.. good tip think u are right.

[@DearMajesty]

agreed. I believe it is also better and can alter/aide turn-in as well

[@garymanning8920]

Im __1.9 meters and 200 pounds... can I adjust to better position with seats barlift pegs reposition...etc? Too get more efficient centered weighted up. 06 CBR 600 F4I

[@geraldperry7779]

On my 2020 KTM 1290R i got sit on the tank,am 255 lbs.

[@ayzatsyazle]

too short. need to be more specific.

[@atgsat]

Totally wrong advice! It’s worth what you paid for it!

[@motovudu]

I've got 14 World Championship podium's including a win in the premier class, how many have you got?

[@cenzano38]

Motovudu That’s the wrong attitude to have. Being a champion doesn’t mean you understand HOW to ride. Two years ago, Jason Pridmore tried to teach me body steering. He’s been teaching for decades and still insists we turn our motorcycles by leaning one way or the other. Mr. Daytona describes it as “body English” and swears counter steering is ineffective. I’m a mid-pack advanced rider and consider myself a student of motorbike riding and coaching. Idiots always use the “well I’m faster” crap and go on to give bad and/or dangerous advice. You really should take another approach to replying to comments like this guy’s. You’ve taught him nothing and made yourself look simple. PS Don’t get me wrong; I really look forward to your input in MotoGP. We even have a nickname for you: the hey guys guy.

[@lucasdasilva5631]

Go home bro.. ur drunk. Ever since I started sitting forward I instantly felt more comfortable. I feel attached to the bike. I had a friend tell me to sit back but it is tiring to brake and I just felt detatched from the bike. I will forvever sit forward and the wear on my tires reflect how comfortable, confident, and fast that I ride. P.s Simon its my dream to do a track day session with you. Thanks for the riding gold you share th us.

[@motovudu]

@@cenzano38 Thanks for you comments. You are probably right about how I replied to him. Because he was extremely rude and obviously not open to accepting what I've learned about this subject, I wasn't interested in spending my time trying to talk him around, I was simply hoping to make him stop and think for a moment before mouthing off like that again. As you will see on our videos, if someone takes the time to (politely) ask a sensible question, the next time I'm at the computer I will do my best to give them a useful answer. Regarding Jason Pridmore. I've met Jason a few times and we've discussed our work. I like him and how he thinks. He has the past race results to back it all up. Mr Daytona, I've not had the pleasure of meeting him (or hearing of him prior to your message).

[@kmotorshop]

Works fine with me, both the old way and the new way . Thank you Simon. My Dad uses this riding technique in the 90's and he also taught me to ride like this when i was young . But i do have to admit that nowadays wherever you go learn to ride, you can see that the teachers teaches riders to ride their bikes in a new way. It's like a new tradition now. Alot of leg exercise haha.

[@barbudomotero3903]

Totally wrong. You must sit as back as possible. For keep your position during break use traction tank pads. More back is better because you can move better and take out your center mass for better cornering lean angle and put your knee on the ground.

[@gonzotopia1]

I think I’ll listen to the man who’s won championships and has decades of track time. Than whoever you are.

[@lewiscollins1045]

So you know more, the an ex GP and world superbike rider?? i don't think so..