Why Star Wars is Falling Apart | Video Essay

[@geek8555]

Honestly, I'd say the force awakens was the real start to the downfall. Because in episode six the empire was defeated and luke was to build a new jedi order. TFA just hit the reset button and brought back the empire and destroyed the new republic and we didn't see luke's new jedi order. Fans accepted it, because it was the first time in over ten years a new star wars movie came out and it was a nostalgia trip and we fell for it. The last jedi was more of a wake up call if anything.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

My thoughts exactly. TFA was not a good story. It was a rehash, it has no world building, it disrespected Han, Luke and Leia AND Chewie, the new characters were just not that good at all, and it relied too much on sequelbait threads to get people hooked in.

[@nicholascazmay2126]

It was ok, in a vacuum. I had my issues with it and didn’t think it was anything special. What they did to Han should have been an even bigger red flag than it was. The second film really showed something was wrong. I never even saw Rise because I knew it was probably going to be an unmitigated disaster - lo and behold it was exactly that and even worse than I would have expected per it’s reputation.

[@googlethecat4218]

Such an underrated comment, this is exactly what I have been saying as well.

[@ketalegaming2572]

All 3 new movies are utter shit

[@buttlicker7670]

Yeah, I feel like TLJ gets a lot of flak for problems that TFA created. Fans were so enamored with nostalgia and loved the marvel style quippy humor that they didn't stop to critically think about what The Force Awakens was setting up.

[@vonneely1977]

Please don't let Disney find out the Old Republic even exists. It's the only thing left that they haven't ruined. Let it sit in our hearts forever untarnished by Disney's incompetence.

[@rolfanderson3925]

Absolutely. Ironically I’m thankful the prequels were so poorly received that Disney will likely leave that entire era alone.

[@garfled23]

I used to think they should but this video made me realize how much they gonna butcher it

[@fxsupermaster]

they're already focusing on the high republic its not long until the old republic starts being involved

[@annabanana7659]

Even if they only have to follow Revan's story and have them play KOTOR, I'm pretty sure they will somehow F it all up because they can't help but twist the story to suit their needs. I don't trust the rat's team so much that I want to have a restraining order against them approaching that specific timeline. God knows what they'll do to Malgus.

[@magnawaves]

High Republic exists. The KotoR remake, regardless of current status, exists. "Legends" isn't getting erased. The content is still there. Just don't consume the new media lmao you make it sound like you'll die if it happens dude

[@whitewalker9862]

There's absolutely nothing defendable about how Disney treated Star Wars IP. Even J.J. Abrams and some actors admitted there was absolutely no plan for the three movies when they started shooting the sequel trilogy and Disney CEO Bob Iger said the main thing they focused while doing Episode 7 was copying the original movie. There was absolutely no creative vision. They treated the IP as cash cow ready to milk as much as possible.

[@chrisbo5288]

Which proves that the downfall of the franchise started with episode 7 and not with 8 and 9. Even episode 7 is a complete shitshow and should be acknowledged as such. It may be slightly less shitty than its two followers buts its still a bad star wars movie and objectively a bad movie in general. The story is garbage, consistent characters do not really exist. There are lists of some character trades but no real characters. Their basic motivations change every 15 Minutes. The whole plot is completely unrecognizable. The story arc moakes no sense. Its a very bad copy of A New Hope. Thats it....

[@kiaadams104]

Gotta reboot stars sequels how micheal Meyers did it... like how halloween 2018 ignores all sequels and picks up its story 40 years in future. For star wars. Scrap new trilogy. Make first two trilogies and manadalorian Canon and start story over from there, with a group of young force user students.

[@whitewalker9862]

Sequel trilogy is a dead end and Disney knows it. Nobody will give a shit and pay to see what the hell Ray, Finn, Poe, Rose etc doing after Episode 9. Also some actors openly said they'll never do another Star Wars movie because they know the movies they starred turned into a shitshow and want no involvement anymore. The best option for moving forward beyond Return of the Jedi is completely ignore sequel trilogy like The Mandalorian did and erase them from continuation.

[@joeyjerry1586]

@@chrisbo5288 , I always found it so weird that people say Force Awakens’s strongest aspect is its characters. Aside from Finn, each other character is the same character from the OT but 10 times worse

[@dentangaji6161]

@@whitewalker9862 I didn't watch the series but i heard someone said that the mandalorian setting up something that will connect to the sequels. Not sure tho.

[@Xanlet]

When Rey mind controlled a storm trooper when she didn't even fully believe the force was real yet, and then the first time she turned on a light saber beat someone who had trained their whole life, that was when I knew Disney Star Wars was bad. Throw in Fin gunning down his squad mates in glee just a few scenes after being too traumatized by combat to even shoot his blaster, and it's clear as day. TFA was a bad movie, but if you got carried away with the cultural hype it's understandable. It just means you have difficulty independently judging a film and instead use popular opinion in lieu of your own.

[@jamessizemore7103]

I remember seeing a full plot leak for the rise of skywalker before it came out, and I thought to myself "wow, this can't be real, this is worse than fan-fiction. if the movie is like this I don't even want to see it." And then I went to the theaters and the leak was accurate word for word, and that's when I gave up on disney star wars

[@thewhitewolf3426]

Whoever the leaker was, was pretty much doing us all a favor if we have to be honest

[@misterray8600]

I wish I got to see that leak bahah It was pretty hard to watch The Force Awakens cus it just got worse as it went on.

[@brendonbuchanan1328]

Bro we literally have the same experience, me and all my buddies were reading it at lunch back when we were in highschool, and all of the star wars fans at the table were in disbelief, we all were saying "no they wouldnt bring palpatine back" "no this has got to be fake" and then when the movie came out and the leak was 100% right I was so pissed and was pretty much done with star wars, after being a diehard fan since i was 4 years old. The sequels literally made my favorite movies feel useless and they pretty much shat on everything I loved about Star Wars

[@selfan2005]

I refused to even go see TROS when it came out, even though all my (then) friends were going to see it. For me, after TLJ, I was done with Star Wars. I only watch the OT or the PT, when they air on TV now.

[@valydendor4472]

I think TLJ is worse than TROS for different reasons, but it at least has a mostly competent structure of beginning and end. TROS is the type of storytelling we had in highschool video class. Our FIRST highschool video class. And it still netted us a low grade.

[@Netanya-q4b]

You nailed it with "couldn't let Boba Fett be Boba Fett in his own show."

[@paulmichaelfreedman8334]

You mean the nasty cold blooded bounty hunter he used to be? I don't think that would work, having our hero doing all kinds of things that we humans see as evil. It's not a horror show. That image of him worked for the movies because he only had a few seconds of screentime over two movies. A bountyhunter whose background was unknown at the time. But definitely seen as one of the bad guys. The Boba Fett redemption arc is probably the only viable one. Too bad if it doesn't suit your personal vision.

[@lightmagus]

@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 Boba Fett was a ruthless man surviving in a ruthless galaxy, he went from "he's no good to me dead" to "I believe in honour and integrity" in a single episode. It was sudden, rushed, uncharacteristic and just bad, the whole draw of the show was seeing Boba Fett not that dude that gets threatened with violence and just shrugs it off.

[@Nordlicht05]

@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 than this could be a double fail. Shouldn't let him the main character if this sum's up. Some kind of changing the feel of the brand into something other... Than maybe better make something new with another name

[@paulmichaelfreedman8334]

@@Nordlicht05 Maybe, but we got what we got.

[@KCAssassin98]

@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 you think it wouldn't work because you've only seen low IQ shows made for babies.

[@SoldierSpiderx]

The saddest thing is knowing what this franchise could have been if it was in the right hands.

[@geraltlobrok4055]

It would have been about the daughter Leia. The 2 first trilogy were about the father and the son Anakin and luke. Old man Darth maul would have been the villain with darth talon being the new Vader. Luce would have a Jedi academy and at the end Leia become a leader for the entire galaxy being her the choosen one of the force. Thats from a book from George Lucas himself, he sold Star Wars to spend more time with his daughter and family. So sad it had to be Disney.

[@yungegger]

It's forever tainted 😭. I suffer with you my brother.

[@SoldierSpiderx]

@@yungegger same that if KK didn't ruin it with her wokeness and female it the force shit, Star wars could be making million

[@reignmans]

there is only George Lucas to blame about that. The moment he wanted to sell the rights it was kinda obvious he was gonna give em to the highest bidder. fck disney btw.

[@albertabramson3157]

It was. The first six films were in the hands of the genius George Lucas team. We may never see Sci-Fi films of that quality again.

[@nohbodhi1120]

Im really glad you mentioned Fallen Order. Cal Kestis is pretty interesting but what makes that games story great are the villians. They're so well written into the story with actual legitimate reasons for their existence and their reasoning for fighting Cal

[@movieoverload]

The villains in those games are incredible, I agree.

[@lisaruhm6681]

Imo usually the villains make the Heroes good, the heroes can only be as good as the villains, because in order to beat them they need to be better, so a shit villain can not make a hero look good.

[@haydentravis3348]

If only there were more. We're missing so many genres. I really miss Lucasarts, the games may not have been very expansive, but they had great ideas and execution. Empire at War and Jedi Academy remain installed forvever for how much fun they offer for almost no install size. They were light on story, but explored gameplay concepts that were ridiculously fun and intricate. Force powers and saber combat in Jedi Academy are still some of my favorite. And while Fallen Order may look very pretty and have smooth, flowing gameplay, being able to turn a stormtrooper into a pile of body parts just by turning on my lightsaber next to them is a satisfying feeling worth the bare minimum graphics to convey the process.

[@manchumuq]

And the world design of that game is just so immersive and feeling so vast and mysterious, which none of the recent Disney star wars can offer.

[@grandmasterchris9666]

As Darth Traya would say: “Apathy is death, worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.”

[@enterbalak]

"Find what you're looking for amongst the death?"

[@theprodigalknight7156]

"It is such a quiet thing to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it."

[@misterray8600]

Ooh nice, I remember Darth Maul wrote in his journal that "pain let you know you were alive" I'd remember that more if Disney didn't make all the books and stories outside of the original movies non canon 🙃

[@lordtornado3321]

Some wise guy said this on the other side of KZbin: "It actually all started with the Force Awakens. It literally undid everything the original heroes achieved. Relagated Luke to an island, leia to a failed general, and Han back to his smuggling ways. Turned a rebellion that won back into a small pack of "resistance" It also narrowed the world down again to just Skywalkers and recloned Vader and the empire in Kylo and the first order. I don't know why so many people fail to see how terrible of a setup TFA was for the rest of the sequels" And it sums it up perfectly most of the problems with sequels IMO.

[@MonoKrohm_2020]

I could never begin to put into words how painful it is that the passion I once had for Star Wars has now been replaced with cold indifference; and I hold Disney ENTIRELY responsible.

[@misterray8600]

I totally agree, stay frosty

[@MonoKrohm_2020]

@@misterray8600 for my galaxy far, far away

[@goosewithagibus]

You don't like the old films anymore?

[@Helmutlozzi]

@@goosewithagibus i mean I guess he does. But personally for me I just don't give a shit if they crash and burn the franchise because there's no use if getting involved in something that's so devoid of passion.

[@kray97]

Ultimately I blame Lucas for selling out to them.

[@supergonk6485]

I’m so glad I gave Andor a second chance it’s phenomenal

[@jupiterapollo4985]

I used to think "who the f**k cares about this Andor guy, and why would anyone watch that lol". I was bored one week, and gave it a shot. And wow... They made me care about him that's for sure. Phenomenal show.

[@ram3973]

The whole Mon Mothma side plot on Coruscant and the formation of the Rebellion being as close to what domestic terrorism would look like in the Star Wars universe is fascinating to me.

[@ram3973]

@aadd2935 , I'll amend your last statement for my own personal tastes: "Andor" is the best DISNEY Star Wars that they've made... so far. But I find it hilariously odd that Star Wars has succeeded where Marvel has failed. Their event series on D+ are FAR better than their theatrical counterparts. And I say that knowing that I include "Rogue One" in my top three Star Wars films just behind "Empire" (#1) and "A New Hope" (#2).

[@marveloussoftware4914]

​@@xXMisery7531Xxso you know something is terrible that you never saw? You must have psycic power or are schizophrenic. I suspect the latter.

[@JonO387]

It's rotten garbage.

[@MrRawnerves]

Kathelen Kennedy has a long resume of successful shows but when you analyze her role in the development of those shows, she was not the show runner . She was an assistant. She didn’t learn anything. But she rose to the top the same way that shit floats up.

[@Will21st]

the force is female.... tells you all you need to know about her.

[@OdaKa]

@@Will21st no, that's just a coincidence

[@misterray8600]

Yup, she was the Producer for Jurassic Park and you can see that series circling the toilet. I think the recent director just said they should have stopped after the first. 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤮🤮🤮🤮

[@Kyle-fq4kq]

@@Will21st lol you think Star Wars sucks because a woman is in charge?

[@iindeedexist6886]

@@Kyle-fq4kq I think he was trying to say that she isn’t the type of person that should be running the franchise

[@TSINIproductions]

The sequels did irreparable damage to the franchise, because they are where everything that came before and is set in an earlier timeline ends up. Everything they write now is something that eventually leads you to a trilogy of disjointed messy wheel spins and convoluted technobabble punctuated with people telling you their feelings loudly and directly into the camera, while winking and making yo’ mama jokes.

[@benfromthesewers1688]

They really had to break community and old lore post endor.. I loved post endor lore (Imperial civil war)! And I think it was great expect few parts.. like palpatine and uhh few camio issues that came with weaker comic writers etc...

[@Ag3ntP_]

You said it 💯

[@kevinleewilliams5119]

When I think about Star Wars, none of the movies made within the past 20 years really come to mind, 1,2,3,4,5,6 episodes are kind of the story to me, everything after that, I literally forgot the new movies existed when I went back to watch the movies recently.

[@annabanana7659]

I'm still a bit sore on how the new "canon" treated Luke and turned him into a bitter hermit. In Legends, while he wasn't perfect, he matured over time and the lessons he learned about the Force shaped the new Jedi Order. Seeing Luke act like in BoBF hurts especially when he made Grogu choose between becoming a Jedi and his foster father. Heck, he would've encouraged Grogu to spend more time with Din before continuing his training as a Padawan because for Legends Luke, attachment is something you must treasure but also be mindful of.

[@lukedelameter7961]

Luke is someone who became a Jedi precisely because he was more hopeful, more loving, and more emotionally present than the Jedi before. That’s why he’s able to save Darth Vader. So seeing him instead repeat all of their mistakes is not only bizarre, but heartbreaking. Even worse than that, even though EU Luke messed up and failed several times over, he never gave up. Canon Luke did.

[@liambowman5247]

@@lukedelameter7961 Exactly!!! A lot of the people who don’t understand why people dislike the sequels simply don’t understand the nuances of the characters that they absolutely butchered, and it can be really hard to explain to them.

[@Ihavehadmanynames7779]

They did that to feed their men bad wahmen stronk agenda. Even han solo was annoying asf. Luke was a symbol of hope like tyr a hero to darth vaders bloodthirsty odin, this need for something to believe in even dates back to the ancients. it was a masterclass on principles and i think THAT is what they really want to see removed ultimately because that’s how you create confusion. We’re no different as societies as they were 3000 years ago. Wether it was mythos or made up tales i think this is what mr jrr tolkien was trying to recreate as well. Every piece of entertainment media is mind numbingly empty and superficial and i see right through it. You think it doesn’t matter but it does, everything matters. Kids look up to these creeps and it breaks my heart because i know some of them like me go to entertainment to escape their daily trouble and they can’t even do that anymore. I used to be one of those kids and i think that’s sad. It’s either that or they’re too brainwashed to even think for themselves.

[@XgoodbyeX]

Yea they really ruined his character it's like they got an ai to make the sequels but at least cal kestis acts a lot like how Luke was in the original cannon so that gives me a small amount of hope lol

[@XgoodbyeX]

@@liambowman5247 especially to kids who grow up on those movies and don't understand they were awful and just made to sell merchandise and toys

[@RoachDoggJr2112]

Filoni taking over Star Wars would be the death knell. He is a 14 year old boy slamming his action figures together. He will go out of his way to decanonize the OT. He DOES NOT understand Star Wars.

[@KaosNova2]

The sad part about Andor is that it’s looking to be a case of too little, too late. It does deliver among the best plots of the various shows but no one cares.

[@bigollameo]

What do you mean nobody cares about its plot delivery? The show's gotten absolutely rave reviews from fans and critics and literally points the way to a maturing, well-received treatment of the IP.

[@warshallwathers7971]

@@bigollameo bro ain’t nobody in the mainstream audience care about the show 💀

[@bigollameo]

@Warshall Wathers Evidence: "Dude, I know what people care about."

[@KaosNova2]

@@bigollameo The Audience for the show as measured by the recorded viewings is low compared to other Star Wars spin-off shows.

[@christiandauz3742]

It is a Prequel to Rogue One (a good fucking movie) and we know he dies

[@peter-paulkutschlojenga7336]

I hope Disney sees the response to Andor and realizes which way to go forward. however, andor isn't nearly as popular as shows like kenobi so I doubt they're going the quality route

[@Adama.1]

but is the kenobi show really populair though? I bet it had way more viewers but that's because of nostalgia bait and many people ended up being dissapointed so idk man.

[@sandtheintellectual]

@@Adama.1 Sure, but more clicks means more money for the big mouse at the top.

[@animatedink2529]

Kenobi is not popular. Not even close. It’s reception mirrored or was even worse than Book of Boba Fett

[@peter-paulkutschlojenga7336]

@@Adama.1 Well, at the end of the day, viewer amount is what counts, that's what I meant with more popular, more people went and watched it and that brings Disney money, not great reviews

[@peter-paulkutschlojenga7336]

@@animatedink2529 It might not have been more popular with the core fan base, but a lot more popular with the average Disney+ user. And that is what counts at the end of the day

[@haroldb1856]

Disney has consistently attacked the thinking fans, the ones who value character development, storytelling, continuity and the lore of the Star Wars universe. Disney wants mindless, unquestioning, consumption of assembly line spectacle. The old fandom would have appreciated Andor, but they're gone now. Andor is failing because the new "fans" don't have the patience or passion to sit through five minutes without an action sequence, a bad joke or a cameo. So, there's your future of Star Wars.

[@virgogaming6488]

You can blame Marvel movies for that.

[@Vekkxd]

@@virgogaming6488 100%

[@ccvcharger]

@@virgogaming6488 you can blame the entire modern media landscape for that. Everything that is delivered on a screen has been trending this way for a little nearly two decades now.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

This is sad. I'm sorry, but how is this not gatekeeping? I'm not that old, but that doesn't lessen my intelligence or attention span. You're also attacking fans who didn't like Andor. Maybe you should reread your comment because I'm not sure what you intended, but it doesn't look good

[@achaudhari101]

I’ll attack the ADHD idiocy.

[@rekunta]

The worst thing that can happen to Star Wars has already happened: audience apathy. Most people simply don’t care anymore, and once you lose that momentum and fan passion, it is _incredibly_ difficult to regain it. I have absolutely zero interest in Star Wars under Disney’s purview. None. It’s dead to me because not only is it creatively bankrupt and incompetently executed, it represents nothing I adore about the property. For as bad as the prequels were in execution, at least the soul of the IP was there. At least it was about the universe, characters, mythology, and journey. About the trials and triumphs. Now, it’s all about treating it like a commodity and shell to cash in on. Show after show after show barfed up from the Mickey Mouse factory assembly line to sell tickets and fill rides. _This is not what people want, or why we were fans._ The absolute cluelessness of Disney and those managing Lucasfilm is remarkable to witness. I’m only immensely grateful that we have the three (unaltered) OT films, and they can never be taken away from us. I will treasure and remain incredibly thankful for those brilliant visions by people who strived to tell us wonderful stories that spoke to fundamental human truths and values, and who put commercial considerations in the background. Do it to tell us great stories, and the money will pour in. Do it for the money, and you will fail.

[@googolplex928]

Whenever they said "we can't do better than Darth Vader, so we might as well turn that aspect into the new villain, not being able to live up to his grandfather", they clearly also said "we can do better than Luke, so we might as well turn that aspect into the new hero, being able to outshine Luke at every opportunity possible".

[@MarlonBrando414]

Its at the point where random fans can come up with better storylines than multi million dollar story writing rooms, there was plenty of material from the EU they could have adapted, from the thrawn trilogy to the legacy comic series

[@shreebington]

The saddest part is that in Legends, the entire story following ROTJ is written. But Disney chose to completely ignore it, and then in a last ditch effort, cherry picked the Emperor coming back from Dark Empire. I will never forgive Disney for robbing us of Jaina and Jacen Solo.

[@PaulusAlone]

Agreed! I second that emotion! 👍

[@karenhall4645]

Jacen Solo's Darth Cadeus is a million times more sinister than Kylo Ren could ever be, and the transformation better written. Jaina Solo is a much more likeable version of Rey and not such a Mary Sue.

[@liamphibia]

Yeah it's like Disney/Lucasfilm said: "Actually screw the Legends material. Let's lie to George's face that we'll take proper care for this franchise, destroy the fanbase into two by hiring two nincompoops who don't know jack about the source material, and then finally f**k up this beloved IP! But who even cares since we just made a sh!t ton of MONEY"💰🤑 "Disney, entertain you we love."

[@zippymufo9765]

What about Mara Jade? I thought she was the best new character of the EU.

[@Kissamiess]

I think Bob Iger's plan was to mine the Legends for good stuff and sell it to us again repackaged, but Disney didn't even manage to do that.

[@konewhatsthenamespolicy6308]

The biggest problem with andor was marketing. I haven’t heard a thing from official ads, trailers, or outlets. Just the people I follow

[@ccvcharger]

Same here. I didn’t even know it was out until the 3rd episode dropped, and then went a couple weeks without watching it because I had assumed that the heist was the series finale. But it seems like Disney has been dropping the ball with advertising lately because several of their recent projects have done poorer than expected for that reason.

[@GalakStari]

They actually released the first 3 episodes at the same time. I don’t remember them marketing it like that, but I could be wrong.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

Strange. I did

[@supier_men7522]

It isn't even on the banner for Disney+

[@u121386]

I saw a couple before it’s release. Afterwards though not so much. The same can be said for projects like the Bad Batch, I only saw like two ads for that series last year and they were for the season finale…

[@BennysGamingAttic]

I wanted to see Obi working through everything. He went from broken to a wise mentor from 3 to 4. I wanted to see that! And why is he afraid of Vader? He whooped his ass so hard he needed permanent life support for the rest of his life!

[@ryz8]

It's over Anakin, I have the high ground!

[@mishynaofficial]

Obi was not afraid of Vader, he lost the faith. Obi felt guilty for creating a mechanical monster, also he felt guilt he BBQd his BFF bro. That's why Obi was all weak and depressed and didn't have the Force with him.

[@Nightlizard1564]

Honestly I’m super excited Andor is getting another season. It’s been one of the best Star Wars shows that have been released along with the mandolorian. Especially with the amount of good writing in that show. Also I’m fine with not having another trilogy. I just hope they stick with the shows for rn. If people are really calling andor boring and slow then In my mind if films like war for planet of the apes and lord of the rings had came out this year people would’ve called that boring too. Sad thing is because of commercial movies like the whole marvel franchise and Disney in general modern audiences no longer care for a good story or plot. They rather have a movie or show with non stop action, cameos, and quips.

[@kevinserafin2024]

andor is slow and boring

[@diegoeduardoeudaveromo111]

@@kevinserafin2024 lol thats only a bait

[@captainobvious90]

Well Star Wars is under Disney, so Disney can still churn out good stories like The Mandalorian and Andor. Some MCU content for Phase 4 has been good as well, and their Special Presentations are great. The Secret Invasion series is probably one of their more serious addition in the future. They probably just trying to experiment more with the formats to find better ways to introduce new characters before putting them in the big screen, and hopefully they put better people on their projects moving forward.

[@Nightlizard1564]

@@captainobvious90 that may be true but the way they have been releasing the mcu movies and shows feel like they came straight out of an algorithm. Soo far in total there’s only been 5 good projects out of the entire phase. On top of that just feels like the mcu has become oversaturated completely. With phase 5 coming up there’s not really any direction or build up especially with phase 4. It’s to a point where I just feel completely burned out. With Star Wars they do the same but I feel like with them they take their projects more seriously. And sure obi wan and boba didn’t end up being too good but I’m glad tales of the Jedi and andor ended up doing well.

[@animatedink2529]

Andor has been getting consistently low ratings and for good reason. This show is about a character who simply put, audiences didn’t care or connect with in Rogue One. Enjoy Andor? Well, bravo. A show should be well written and I actually can enjoy a slow paced story. But simply put, Andor doesn’t feel like Star Wars. And it still doesn’t paint Disney in a positive light when they failed to make compelling shows about characters audiences actually care about like Boba Fett and Obi Wan.

[@gino456123789]

I grew up obsessed with Star Wars. I had countless comics and all the obscure books from the mid 2000's. I remember reading the Thrawn trilogy in middle school and thinking "THIS SHOULD BE MADE INTO A MOVIE" You can imagine my frown when I walked out of the last Jedi lol

[@ramons8908]

That's what drove me mad, they already had the movie trilogy, they already had the strong female force user. but they got Kathleen, I don't read books, Kennedy and Jar Jar Abrams who just wanted a big pay check, so just did whatever shit Kathleen told him to do. I shouldn't say she doesn't read books, she clearly reads Twilight not Star Wars.

[@schadracabaki9596]

i will never see the last jedi as the mistake. it was probably the best out of the sequel trilogy. i haven't been a fan since birth like most, so maybe my perspective is different, but Rey having nobodies as parents, and Kylo Ren killing Snoke, were both great twists in my opinion.

[@flinnallen7076]

But it was so artistically done

[@ramons8908]

@@schadracabaki9596 It's like asking me what's my favourite Twilight movie and saying the plot twists in Twilight was good. I just don't care. Read the Thrawn trilogy and see what Star Wars should of been. Rey is just an awful character, Kylo was an emo straight out of Twilight. Fin should of been the Jedi and Rey the dark apprentice after she chopped Kylo's head off. Thrawn Trilogy would of still been far better, but doing that would of made the Disney trilogy make some sense.

[@schadracabaki9596]

@@ramons8908 They were never going to do a trilogy about a non-force user, it was unrealistic to set your standards there. I agree Rey was a horrible character, every main character of the Skywalker saga took a massive loss at one point, except her. I don’t recall her ever losing a single fight, let alone a limb like Luke and Anakin. Kylo was a good character though, he is widely regarded as the only bright spot of the sequel trilogy.

[@SuperGoose42]

The fact that so so so many Lucasfilm films and projects and films have been cancelled are grounds alone for Kathleen's firing. This amount of cancelled projects just doesn't happen in any other studio

[@ReidDesigns]

George Lucas, mostly BY himself wrote 6 movies with a start and middle and an end. Yeah he had problems and yeah he had help in certain areas for the OT. But ONE guy with yellow notepads and 2B pencils made BETTER stories than anything Disney has put out in a decade. My 2¢

[@hsthatzo8063]

That's exactly why the artist is more important than the machine behind it.

[@NebLleb]

NO. He actually wrote ONE script for ONE movie, which proved to be so large in scope, he had to chop out a good deal of it, and save the remaining stuff for sequels. Do your goddamned research before hand.

[@ReidDesigns]

@@NebLleb oh thanks… for making an ass out of you and me. Go read Secret History of Star Wars and be silent. Thanks

[@Oldhandlewasabitcringe]

George only wrote 123&4

[@spiritualarchitect4276]

Fact is, in 1980 George said that he had written out studies/drafts for 9 movies. He made the fourth one first because he did not know if he would ever make another. That is why the middle 3 were seen first.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

"Not you Andor. You've been great." 100% correct.

[@Samonti-ns6od]

andor literally Saved Star wars.. it was way too much Good especially In This state of star wars..Andor felt like a breath fresh

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Samonti-ns6od It’s a breath of fresh air

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

@@Samonti-ns6od And 100 funnier jokes you can tell yourself. They said the same about Mando (massively overrated btw), yet here we are again. Don't get me wrong, not hating on Andor, but what can yet another trite Rebellion origin story do, sandwiched in between a mid kiddy show being Rebels and the god-awful Kenobi show ?

[@triggeredboomer5867]

Andor is cheap Disney knock off Kyle Katarn and showcases everything wrong with Star Wars regardless of it being a good show or not. The dude has a Bryar pistol. The writers hate the fans. It's that simple.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

@@triggeredboomer5867 1. Boba and Kenobi are cheap looking. 2. No it doesn't. 3. What is even your point here? And 4. No they don't as it doesn't fall into the same tricks and problems of Boba, Kenobi and the sequels who rely heavily on nostalgia and cameo garbage. It's that simple.

[@MIAsuxdonkey]

Nah man Finn is interesting for the first 10 minutes of force awakens, when you still think he might have some kind of character arc and we might learn more about the years he spent being conditioned and trained, when your still thinking that those years might have an impact on how he acts around his friends and that it might make the process of trusting those friends harder on him… right up until he’s shooting down his own comrades like 2 minutes later because Poe is his new best friend and Finn is just the awkward comic relief now….

[@kallyfest]

The description given here is as sharp as a scalpel and I so agree with so many of these thoughts, ''I hate this movie as much as I can'' there are millions of us who think so. When I heard Lucas say ''I sold my children to slavers'' we were already expecting the worst.

[@austinzizzi1142]

It’s so heart breaking to watch George sign those papers for the Disney contract

[@letmethink8350]

@@megazard5249 He has said he sold it due to Lucasfilms failing, and him not wanting to let down his 2,000 employees. But yeah, capitalism bAd.

[@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw]

same, i wanted to give disney the benefit of a doubt although i was scared at the press release announcing the buyout, even went to TFA all dressed up as Boba Fett. I was gutted how they character assassinated every character to make a sorry copy of Episdoe IV. The Book of Boba Fett killed an even bigger part of me inside, they character assassinated my favorite character in his own show. Star Wars is my favorite franchise tied with Lord of the Rings, but everything post 2005 in both has been beyond awful.......

[@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw]

@@letmethink8350 it was not failing. Not in any way shape or form, they made less money, yes. But that happens when you have not made a movie, but at least Lucas put his all into his work, or had competent people work on Lucasfilm projects, the exact opposite of disney. And Disney itself is the exact picture of what is wrong with capitalism, it is a true monopoly now

[@letmethink8350]

@@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw "It was not failing it was just losing money slowly but surely." Oh, sorry. A boat also isn't sinking as long as the water is pooling up slowly, right?

[@letmethink8350]

@@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw Also, your comment on capitalism is a half baked dive. We had sanctions in place to stop the formation of monopolies until beaurocrats embedded themselves into the government, as was warned by Thomas Jefferson. Greed is the word you seem to be looking for, and that transcends all forms of government or economics...

[@darkwoods1954]

I felt very alone in 2015 when I came out of the New Hope remake so disappointed but everyone else seemed to think it was amazing for some reason. I stuck with it for a bit even though I very quickly noticed it was a New Hope remake. But I thought maybe half way through it would take a turn and shock me, do something unexpected. By the third act when the X-Wings turned up I realized nope, this was just a straight up New Hope remake and I was PISSED!

[@callmeej8399]

You were one of the wise one’s I wish I was in your place back then

[@antisocial8480]

No, your not alone I felt the same way.

[@RevBrotherJackMusick]

Me too. I hated it from the start. Killing "Han Solo" (Jake Solo) was symbolic.

[@jeremiahhendra2401]

I had issues with TFA when I watched it, but I was still excited for Rouge One and TLJ enough to see them in theaters at least 1-2 times. TLJ unfortunately killed my enthusiasm for Star Wars movies. Prior to that I couldn't have imagined I would miss a Star Wars in theaters. Now? Passed up both Solo and RoS in theaters. Money well saved honestly.

[@darkwoods1954]

@@jeremiahhendra2401 I watched all original six film at the cinema (thanks to the special editions in the 90s) but now I can't imagine ever wanting to waste money going to the cinema to watch a new disney star wars.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

Let's not forget that when challenged by fans about plot holes/ logical storytelling, Rian and others who worked on the film just verbally attacked fans.

[@whiskeycompany13]

Wasn’t that more in response to toxicity? I don’t like rian but let’s not pretend like the fandom isn’t a cesspool sometimes.

[@decrulez]

@@whiskeycompany13 people vocally disliked the movie, yes there was toxic fans who also joined in but Star Wars in the biggest franchise in the world, odds are there’s going to be a few. Just because a few assholes agree doesn’t make it wrong, it’s partly why Solo performed so bad at the box office.

[@whiskeycompany13]

@@decrulez I never said otherwise

[@percrunner1433]

It wasn’t a “few” fans. The majority of the internet fandom was toxic as fuck. And still are.

[@mscapeh4451]

@@whiskeycompany13 no it was verbal attacks

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi62]

" We stand here amidst my achievement, not yours!" - Lucasfilm to Disney

[@tdog2658]

I love it when you have all these feelings bubbled up inside of you and you don't know how to express them but then you watch a video pointing out those exact feelings you have. It is just so satisfying and that is what happened to me with this video

[@Ryan-qf8tz]

I agree with everything you said about "The rise of Skywalker". The damage is why we haven't seen another movie.

[@PawelLeszczynskipav]

And I haven't seen anything from the star wars universe since. It's just unbearable.

[@royzstudio5587]

Imagine a Star Wars production that combines the storytelling and pacing of the Mandalorian with the tone and screenplay of Andor. This type of production would’ve been great for a show like boba fett, or a movie like solo. It’s so frustrating to see that Disney has the capability to create peak Star Wars content, and yet they fail to put the puzzle pieces together… it’s just pure incompetency from the executives

[@danielschoch4881]

Grogu shoulf have been kept out of the picture for more time with Luke. This would have sparked the interest more in him. But instead Disney just thinks on quick cash grab. It also usubverts the relationship with Mando a bit. Because at the end of Season 2, Grogu realised that the Mandalorian loves him and he (Grogu) loves Mando. But he can let him go and does not need to be near him all the time. Knowing someone loves you is enough and was perfect fot him to become a jedi. A jedi as he should be. but now it is a regress.

[@mario97br]

@@danielschoch4881 Next usurpation: The Story revolves more around Grooku than Mando. We were teased with badass bounty hunter action and it turns into child care. Next Grooku is the one holding the dark saber and turning into "The Mandalorian". It's his show, not Dins, it even starts with him being adopted to the Mandos.

[@spacejunk2186]

This show would be ass because Mando's writing is ass.

[@treyday4846]

Kathleen Kennedy is over 70 lol why is she still running star wars ? My theory is her farther did favours for powerful people as he was a a judge that liked to bang movie stars 🤩

[@MIAspartan]

Reminds me of 343 industries. They have all the pieces and the instructions, they’re just too incompetent

[@Marcus_Berger1701]

I watched the first 2 episodes of Andor and stopped watching it. A month after i gave Andor a second try and boy, i was surprised. The later episodes really got me. I love slow stories. Andor is down to earth storytelling and it actually feels real. I love the show.

[@Dipskitz]

Honestly the turning point for me was the weird ass kids in boba fetts show that looked like they just graduated a California art school and rode space mopeds that was like so out of left field

[@uriustosh]

California art school? Interesting choice of description.

[@Dipskitz]

@@uriustosh yeah that’s the only way I could think to describe the clothes they were wearing it just felt like super out of universe compared to what some of the other characters were wearing

[@dominicp9296]

Ya that was always weird to me to. And you nailed that comparison lmao

[@benjaminvega7186]

Considering that it was a shout out to George Lucas' American Graffiti, you're not wrong

[@Dipskitz]

@@benjaminvega7186 just looked it up cause I didn’t know what it was, but that’s still such a weird choice at least in my opinion. Like I feel like if there was something happening on Coruscant they’d fit in but tattooine felt a little forced for something like that.

[@ragnakak]

What I will never understand is why Disney decided to discard The Extended Universe. There are so many good stories between the novels, comics and video games that they could have translated to great movies and tv shows.

[@spank9898]

Lmao they took the dumbest part of EU and made it canon. "Somehow Palpatine returned"

[@TheDJBagpuss]

They could have just filmed Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy (edited down for time) and it would have been 8 million times better than the Disney trilogy but NOOOOOOO that was obviously too sensible lol

[@decrulez]

The idea was to start fresh and “purge” everything instead of going through each book and deciding on cannon status (because damn there was some dumb shit) which would be easier to keep things “cannon”. Unfortunately for some dumb reason they never had an overarching story in mind when creating the sequels, possibly to prevent leaks. This lead to TFA which while fun it’s also full of mystery boxes full of disappointment. TLJ was then a deconstruction of Star Wars and was supposed to build it back up but it was extremely flawed in its deconstruction as it misunderstood so much about the universe both cannon and philosophy. Finally TRoS was doomed from the start, TLJ train wreck threw out everything people were interested in from TFA leaving nothing exciting or satisfying for the trilogy to end on.

[@danf7411]

A long time ago in a galaxy far away the same events took place on similar planets 30 years apart.

[@misterray8600]

Yup I've got a head full of non canon stories. I like to say that I've forgotten more about Star Wars than fans these days have ever learned. I might get that tattooed

[@takanara7]

I doubt Andor had a higher budget then Obi-wan. I think it really just came down to the competence of the people making it. Like, Andor used real sets, so a lot of the quality is due to the people who found the places to shoot ("location scouters" is their actual title, IIRC). Hiring a good location scouter probably doesn't cost much more then hiring a bad one, but if Tony Gilroy knows good location scouters then that will play into how good the final product is. At the end of the day, just hiring the right people has more to do with a quality final product then hiring a *lot* of people - just look at Rings of Power, they spent billions and it still *looks* cheap. They spent, like tens of millions of dollars on an ocean set so they could make a 'shipping' pun in the final episode, lmao.

[@BinksTheSith]

Obi-Wan seemed like it had a higher budget actually, the people that andor actually did their job and wanted to do a good job even though they are getting paid anyway

[@ojogbaneamedu2501]

Icl one thing Rings of Power definitely doesn’t look like, is cheap. You can see every cent they spent on that series and it’s about the only universally praised aspect of the series.

[@RetroCrisis]

The mess started with TFA. While in itself if was well recieved, it was a foundation of sand. TLJ isn't perfect, but it tried something different and I respected that. Episode 9 should have rolled with the punches, rather than rushing and undoing TLJ.

[@jhenson1618]

I believe you are giving Disney and by extension Kathleen Kennedy more credit than they deserve. They had absolutely no plan, no story arc, for the Disney Trilogy. Their lack of a story arc is pretty well documented. This coupled with the fact that none of the Disney movies are rewatchable like the first Trilogy and to a lesser extent the prequal Trilogy leaves Disney Star Wars totally forgettable and people are able to walk away from it.

[@LadyDoomsinger]

JJ Abrams whole "mystery box" philosophy only works, if the person who fills the box actually knows what's in it - otherwise it's just an empty box.

[@michaelkaine9452]

Exactly they aren’t part of GL’s story so I don’t follow or care form. His story ends in ROTJ and that is the story I choose to follow.

[@magic8340]

The story arc was: make KK...sorry, Rey solve all the problems.

[@tosutaa]

Kathleen Kennedy also had very little say in the shows and movie that were actually good. Everything she has touched in recent years, has been hot garbage at best

[@nocturneuh]

Agreed

[@thesp1r1tdragon55]

I don't think Andor's poor performance has anything to do with the show at all. I think it's mostly just that the previous shows like Kenobi or Boba Fett were so bad that people have lost faith and don't even give Andor a shot. Just like how noone watched Solo after TLJ.

[@virgogaming6488]

Also Andor is a dull character to make a show about. He was very dull in Rogue One.

[@clanofshadows]

That's what I was thinking

[@LoneWolf-rc4go]

They really needed to release Andor a few years ago (after Rogue One had been on the cinema and before the franchise was carrying the baggage of several, at best, mediocre shows).

[@clanofshadows]

@@LoneWolf-rc4go fr just a string of mediocre star wars content games and movies and shows save for a couple things here and there

[@immortalfrieza]

@@clanofshadows Mandalorian, Boba Fett, Fallen Order, Clone Wars, Rebels... the vast majority of Star Wars media after Disney got it has been great.

[@jeramydavin4061]

It's criminal that we havent had an adaptation of either the Thrawn trilogy or the Knights of the Old Republic story. Hell, theres so many rich backstories that could be put to screen, like General Grevious. He could have an entire trilogy devoted to his tragic story.

[@spaceghostcqc2137]

I think an adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy is coming. Either when CG gets good enough to bring the original cast back for a full movie, or as a multi-show cross-over. KotoR I think they wanted to do the remake first (honestly I'd prefer that to a film) but that's had production issues.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

KOTOR would succumb to curse of video game adaptations and fans would throw a fit

[@LippyHungstocking]

Or even the Anderson trilogy. There's even plenty of cannon from the comic books i.e. The Sith Wars or Tales of a Jedi

[@nicholasbajan3989]

A knights of Ren film would do so well to explain much of the crap that went on with the sequel trilogy. I would say most people would probably give it a look since kylo Ren was a cool character to say the least

[@nicholaswesoloskie7194]

give tony gilroy a thrawn series

[@marcmarc1967]

26:21 Well, that didn't age well.

[@Maarten-Nauta]

Bahaha thought the same, totally failed.

[@evilwatermelon99]

“Theme park filmmaking” is the best phrase I’ve heard to describe this

[@luismiguelrodriguesdecarvalho]

I don't think Filoni or Favreau want to rule Lucasfilm, they would probably have to step back from directing or be creatively involved in their projects.

[@ccvcharger]

Not to mention that Favreau is also pretty involved with Marvel.

[@rakoonshampoo2608]

@@ccvcharger I mean he’s not doing much from the creative side and they could always kill off his character in armor wars or something

[@madgavin7568]

Its also important to mention that Filoni and Favreau are not the answer by themselves. They make all sorts of mistakes in their products that prevent them from being perfect. Granted they're definitely better than what the producers at Disney can come up with, but not so much to the point where they're our next hope.

[@ccvcharger]

@@rakoonshampoo2608 fair enough

[@sorejack]

Do you remember in the force awakens where solo showed up with chewy to take 3 new hopefuls to the new Jedi Academy? The child soldier finn, who's connection to the force dragged him and the uncanny pilot poe to escape the heart of the empires remenants, where the force brings them together with rey, a genius trapped on a broken world waiting for parents who would never come. Old enough to learn the lessons of her parents, but to young to remember the the sith who hunted them. Remember when the movie ended, the falcon dropped from orbit to and flew over a jungle to see a temple with hundreds of young adults, practicing with a man in a hood, he turned and drops his cover and we see Luke smile and wave? Wasn't that great?

[@TheRogueJedii]

That would have been amazing

[@FullMetalHans]

This would have been friking amazing! Amazing!

[@solikeletsbenerdy]

Star wars visions are the kinds of star wars movies we need there's several episodes in that show that could easily be their own movies or even trilogies specifically about the sith hunter Samurai. Such an interesting concept.

[@Onezy05]

The nostalgia for Force Awakens was powerful at the time, but it's pretty much gone now This is what happens when you make a film that only relies on nostalgia to draw in its audience Also kind of ironic how Abrams wanted the film to mark a return back to the OT style of Star Wars when the film is littered with CGI and has marvel style humour. It couldn't be further from what Star Wars actually is.

[@immortalfrieza]

The Force Awakens was the nostalgia trip Star Wars badly needed after the Prequels were so terrible and was good enough on it's own merits. The Last Jedi was the shake up Star Wars even more badly needed after Star Wars had become stale and predictable... and then Rise of Skywalker walked back on all of that by acting like TLJ never happened and making the whole trilogy an incoherent mess.

[@Onezy05]

@@immortalfrieza Disagree. Force Awakens had some of the most shallow worldbuilding I've seen in any film, and that set up all of the problems in the rest of the sequel trilogy. The nostalgia just blinded people to the flaws and lured people on with its obsessive 'mystery boxes'. The Force Awakens was denial. The Last Jedi was anger. The Rise of Skywalker was grief.

[@immortalfrieza]

@@Onezy05 The Force Awakens showed Star Wars fans that Star Wars was actually going to BE Star Wars again. TFA didn't need much world building because the OT had already long since done most of the work. All TFA needed to do was teach us about and develop the characters and it did it. One of the problems with the prequel trilogy was all the long scenes of nothing actually happening while everybody stood around spouting unnecessary exposition for the sake of "world building" in a galaxy that everybody knew was going to drastically change and make nearly all of it irrelevant by the OT anyway, rather than like the Sequel Trilogy trusting that the audience had brains and thus didn't need every last detail spoon fed to them. The sole problem with the Sequel Trilogy was the "fans" that hated on The Last Jedi for no good reason, leading to Disney actually listening and acting like TLJ never happened with Rise of Skywalker. Nearly everything wrong with Rise of Skywalker can be traced directly back to doing everything possible to pretend TLJ didn't happen. Up until Rise of Skywalker the whole trilogy was perfectly set up to rival if not exceed the Original Trilogy.

[@virgogaming6488]

@@Onezy05 I agree, TFA is so incoherent and nonsensical with how it sets things up that TLJ had no other real choice but to wipe the slate clean of the messy mystery box storytelling. And no worldbuilding to explain how the state of the galaxy got there.

[@Onezy05]

@@immortalfrieza All of that 'unecessary exposition' was necessary for telling the story of how the Republic became the Empire in the first place lol. Everything with the Trade Federation, Clone Wars, and political scenes set the groundwork for why the Republic became the Empire and how the Jedi were dispatched of. It builds a world that's about to be torn down and explains why that world and it's systems fail. Everyone goes on about how TFA FEELS like the OT when what they're really saying is that they just like the return of the familiar aesthetics. The humour is unlike anything in the OT, there are CG effects galore, and the camerawork is a far cry from anything that came before on a consistent level. All that's familiar is the OG cast and the surface level aesthetics. By just retreading the familiar aesthetics of the OT, Abrams ended up regressing the situation from how it was left in ROTJ. He wanted to make Han Solo the familiar smuggler we first met in ANH instead of progressing the character from where he was last left off. But in doing so, Abrams made Han a loser who's lost all of his achievements and character progression from the OT .... off screen! Is the First Order still the same entity as the Empire? If so, how has it amassed more resources to create the monstrously overpowered Death Star 3.0? Why didn't the rebuilt Republic stop them? What even is the new Republic like? Where did Snoke come from? Why is Finn the only Stormtrooper to defect? What's the mystery behind Rey? Why did Luke seclude himself on an island when the galaxy was in its deepest peril.... again? These were all questions TFA set up that hooked people on at first. The potential for a good story was there because.... uhhh ... I don't know, we'd find out what the real story was about in the next one! Rian Johnson was kind of written into a corner in this regard and had to manufacture artificial and inorganic solutions to these mysteries. Yeah, he chose to make those crappy decisions (albeit with some great cinematography and actually innovative ideas) but TFA was what wrote him into a corner in the first place

[@spinosaurusstriker]

Worst part is that, even the parts were you point they were doing a good thing, we can argue that they were not only bad but detrimental to the story as a whole, for example yoda teaching luke something he already knows from more than 20 years.

[@OfficialDenzy]

Nah the Yoda and Luke part was good. The only good thing in the last jedi

[@spinosaurusstriker]

@@OfficialDenzy i just explained why isn't good, unless you have a better explaination why.

[@OfficialDenzy]

@@spinosaurusstriker Yoda didn't teach something new. He tried to bring coward Luke back to his senses.

[@GodwynDi]

@@OfficialDenzy Which should never have been a thing. The assassination of Luke's character is one of the worst travesty in the movies.

[@OfficialDenzy]

@@GodwynDi When did I say that? The last jedi was a flop but the scene with Yoda and Luke was the only good thing.

[@detroitdave9512]

It killed me inside watching Cad Bane die in the most brainless action sequence I've ever seen

[@pastychong]

It’s so funny that they introduced him in ep 6 too. If he was a main villain from episode 1 they could’ve done so much more cool shit with that show lol.

[@Biggammer-jh6hs]

Cad bane didn’t die. He was just stabbed and his droid will prob save him.

[@kenh.5903]

whenever the goal of a movie is to propagandize rather than entertain, it falls apart.

[@HiHi-lt1cb]

I completely agree with the cameo thing. Yes it is always so fun to see fan favorite characters come back, but lately it's been done just for that factor and we don't see them do much. Id LOVE shows focused on those characters that are actually good, showing new compelling stories with and sides to them. That's why I'm excited about Ahsoka: it has a story to tell while also including lots of fan favorite characters. If the show is based around that character I'm fine with it. We WANT stories with these characters we've grown to love. Andor was amazing, Obi Wan was ok, and Boba was meh. I just want good stories with good characters, at this point I don't care who they are as long as they're compelling!

[@theopportuneson699]

As awesome as Hayden and Ewan’s performances were in the cracked masked scene, I hope everyone knows the scene was *stolen* from _Rebels._ No, _Kenobi_ writers couldn’t come up with even that.

[@theopportuneson699]

@Samuel Rodriguez Next time, check IMDB.

[@nigeltheoutlaw]

The show ripped off multiple other Star Wars properties, but why is anyone surprised? The first mainline movie straight up plagiarized A New Hope.

[@ProfessorGroyper]

“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”

[@BabyMatiny]

though i do like the sort of “poetry” it created. ahsoka removed the left side of vaders mask, obi wan removed the right side, but only luke could remove the entire mask

[@BinksTheSith]

@@BabyMatiny damn

[@michelecastellotti9172]

There is nothing wrong with liking the prequels, both the OT and PT share many problems, but each is excellent in its own right, where the OT is excellent in storytelling, the PT is excellent at worldbuilding, as of lately tho, it looks like they nitpicked the worst pf both trologies and made it into shows. Thank god we still have legends

[@officialmonarchmusic]

The PT is excellent at worldbuilding. AND storytelling

[@TheZamaron]

@@officialmonarchmusic It's just flawed at dialogue, but yes when you look closer, the PT does have a great story.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@TheZamaron I don't even see how THAT is true. (Excluding AOTC) The prequels actually have dialogue that's good at the worst great at the best. I've never understood the complaint. (Again, excluding AOTC)

[@TheZamaron]

@@officialmonarchmusic I’d say it’s up to the individual.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@TheZamaron But what is an example of that not in AOTC?

[@joshuaedwards3322]

As a kid I watched the originals adnauseum. I still have movies that I will rewatch every few years because they are just that good. I tried several times to rewatch these new movies and I can't pass the 20 minute mark. As visually gorgeous as they are, they are sort of like those Kaleidoscope screen savers we had in the 90's, just good enough for background noise.

[@Brizyy]

When The Mandalorian released i was sure Disney was gonna begin to realise that what we need is some creativity, and considering it draws so much inspiration from the western genre i was convinced we was gonna get some more genre based movies/tv shows set in the star wars universe, like an action packed buddy cop movie or a phsycological crime thriller or something.

[@I_Cunt_Spell]

Maybe even some horror? "Project Blackwing" *wink wink*

[@TheDemigans]

It wasnt just the genre, it was also the way they set up the story. The second season (and Boba Fett) showed how it could fail. Instead of a focus on a persistent story that builds on previous ones its far more focused on telling a single story in a single episode, with a tiny bit of overarching story. You could see that they build up a threat, and then because they were almost out of runtime for the episode all the bad guys instantly evaporate. You could see the corporate hand basically saying “but we want to build a bunch of shows and we dont want to put a lot of money and effort in the story so you are going to try out if this works”. Even though they just showed what works: make an overall consistent and compelling story that fits with the rest of the canon for the most part.

[@akeelyaqub2538]

A psychological crime thriller in the underworld of coruscant would be amazing if done right.

[@philstory2556]

cyberpunk coruscant lower level film when

[@I_Cunt_Spell]

@@philstory2556 No cyberpuke.

[@Mateocabrera2389]

You should watch Tales of the Jedi it’s a super easy watch. The Ahsoka ones were good but the Dooku episodes were next level especially his last one. Check them out.

[@xxcaptninjaxx4301]

Tales of the Jedi was fucking trash dooku episode are not bad and Ahsoka episode are pretty bad.

[@broda5310]

The dichotomy of man on full display here

[@oXRaptorzXo]

@@xxcaptninjaxx4301 there’s nothing bad about them besides episode 1 being slow

[@xxcaptninjaxx4301]

@@oXRaptorzXo they stole name from comic series and Ahsoka episode were unnecessary look pretty bad.

[@oXRaptorzXo]

@@xxcaptninjaxx4301 tales of the Jedi isn’t exactly a hard name to come up with. Also, they literally own the comic series. They aren’t stealing anything. The Ashoka stuff was unnecessary sure but that doesn’t make it bad. They are objectively good

[@carlosdiaz7573]

The sad fact is that Lucas original plan for the sequel trilogy was having Darth Maul as a terrorist leader, adapting characters from the EU/Legends and Clone Wars, a New Jedi Order and even exploring the origins of the Force and alternate dimensions. The ideas were fucking awesome. The Last Jedi was a franchise killer.

[@GabePlaysYT]

Imagine how much better things would have been if they adapted Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy for the sequels, eventually following them up with the Dark Empire and Yuuzhan Vong. It's sad how so many characters like Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, Jacen and Jaina Solo, and so many stories will never see the big screen when they were all right there. Disney just chose to ignore them, made them all non-canon, for the purpose of telling their story that was 1/2 nostalgia and rehashing the og trilogy and 1/2 no plan and making it up as they went along. Say what you will about Lucas' prequel movies, at least he HAD a plan!

[@plasticide4095]

I love the fact that you mentioned Andor as a great show. It is underrated as hell. The only time other than Jyn Erso's speech did I have goosebumps watching Star Wars

[@Notorious_MIG]

I think a major problem with Boba Fett’s character… is that mando is basically who we wanted Boba Fett to be based on the 6 minutes of screen time he got in the original trilogy. I don’t really think they knew who they wanted this new boba fett to be.

[@volcanish1301]

Yeah. Though, I think they can work. I said in another comment but, Mando and Boba on a spectrum of good to evil, they're both near the center but Mando leans more towards good whereas Boba leans more towards evil, but they're both in a grey-area none the less.

[@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw]

exactly, Boba Fett was supposed to be the ultimate badass, the most feared man in the galaxy after only Darth Vader himself.... but he is a wimp in his own show...

[@Lichelf]

I think the problem is that the real Boba Fett is a bad guy but Disney won't let him be that. They went all in on him (and Mando) being 95% good and only being a morally bad bounty hunters for their introductions and cliffhangers.

[@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw]

@@Lichelf more or less, but not really. Boba even became a friend of the Skywalkers and helped save the galaxy while being the Mandalore 🤷🏻‍♂️ he was written as a good guy while keeping all the qualities that define him (skillful, proficient, respected, etc.)

[@Lichelf]

@@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw I must have missed that part of Book of Boba Fett.

[@thedude4k]

So so well said about obi wan and boba fett. Those shows were THE ones that needed to be great

[@michaelkaine9452]

Exactly. Obi wan especially by far. Yea you can make some really good shows in andor but in the one show you HAD to succeed in you fail because you play it safe and decide to pick another redundant storyline that we’ve definitely not seen before.

[@thedude4k]

@@michaelkaine9452 the more i think about it the more annoying it is as well. The sequels, kenobi, and book of boba are literally the 3 strikes to create disneys out

[@Ihavehadmanynames7779]

Instead they ended up being a couple of farts in the wind

[@jsilver9700]

Obi-Wan was such an easy layup of a show - I still can't believe how badly they biffed it.

[@echdareez]

Mandolorian season 3 *should* be good. Oh... if only you knew 1y ago. And let's not speak about Ahsoka. Feloni being the savior? All hope is lost, SW is unfortunately dead 😢

[@hassathunter2464]

Boy... this aged like milk

[@maverickbragwell]

Perfectly encapsulates how I’ve been feeling. I love mando but for some reason I’m just not hyped for the new season. I’m just tired of mediocrity. Also grogu being back with mando so soon is awful.

[@lauraverjan6831]

how dare you

[@stevenarmstrong5467]

@@lauraverjan6831 no, he should dare you....even double dare you GROGU IS A FAILED JEDI!!!!! ITS OFFICIAL. REVAN KILLED MANDOS BY BEING NEITHER LIGHT OR DARK SIDE BO KATAN IS THE MOST QUALIFIED TO LEAD DIN IS JUST ANOTHER COSPLAYER #doubledare

[@Mike-rt2vp]

For some reason? I think you know what the reason is. A company completely demolishes its biggest IPs in marvel and Star wars, and we're going to act like we have no idea. Okay. Try watching any of the critical drinker content on the related media.

[@PacificDaneOfficial]

Cause season 3 is woke garbage

[@Solaxe]

"I’m just tired of mediocrity. " *ignores Andor* ok

[@JoeOvercoat]

14:11 Baby Yoda is the most exploitative of all. It’s like the guy that borrows a puppy to get a date.

[@Spartan1312]

Red flags were put up for me in episode 7. Everyone in my friends circle wrote these flags off as "cynical" but episode 8 killed it, buried it, and everyone was in massive denial about it. I stopped caring at that point and I feel I got the better half of the deal because it was a fast death and I mourned and let go. Everyone else held onto hope as if Star Wars was a brain dead patient on life support where the family (fans) are still convinced that person will recover and wake up.

[@Terminalsanity]

I think we were all able to largely overlook the short comings of 7 because it did an effective job at establishing the new characters an we all figured they go on to iron out the rough spots as they went in to develop them and the new status quo... then TLJ dropped 😬 and instead of developing the new characters and advancing the setting establishing a clear picture of where things stand in the Star Wars Universe, Rian Johnson wasted most of the runtime runtime cynically and superficially deconstructing the metatextual narrative of the OG trilogy and Luke, leaving Rey, Finn, and Poe spinning in their wheels while reducing Kylo and Hux into joke incompetent villains while wasting Snoke and Phasma entirely. Basically instead of building anything and anyone up to climax TLJ wasted all its time tearing down and doomed ROS to be a dumpsterfire that would have now serve as act 2 & 3 with no credible central antagonist. Granted while dredging up Palpatine was probably the worst way to handle that problem I understand why a hack like JJ who relies on the mystery box gimmick desperately tried to hang his hat on the nostalgia button there was a whole lot to work with and there wasn't time enough time to build up what Rian should have built in the 1st place. TLJ is was a Sh!tpost of a film that practically doomed ROS to be just sh!t. Like I really thought about how to course correct from TLJ but at the end the day the best I could come up with shifting the role of primary antagonist to one the Knights of Ren who violently deposes Kylo after his poor leadership is resulting in more and more Stormtroopers defecting in the Stormtrooper uprisings that the Finn has been leading in the interim as Rey and Poe and undermine and Disrupt First Order counter operations at every turn becoming an devastating effective team that has successfully turned the tide rebuilding the resistance in an even greater fighting force than it ever was. It mean the outline is better than ROS but I admit it not that good it relies on a while lot of developments happening offscreen between films and leaves us with a wholly new villian basically getting introduced in the last film there was just no easy way to get around the damage TLJ caused by not performing the role of a 2nd act.

[@512TheWolf512]

Hehe. I watched ep8 with my brother, who's a massive SW fan (or was at least) and it was really funny how differently we reacted to the movie. At least ramming at lightsepeed looked awesome from a purely aesthetic perspective

[@earnthis1]

Episode 8 is one of the best movies of the whole canon. You look silly pretending the Phantom Menace or Attack of the clones is better. You just look desperate and angry, or you were little when you saw those and you are biased and foolish! lololol Either way WHATEVER BRO!!!! lololol

[@Terminalsanity]

@@earnthis1 Okay Skip now that you have all those pointless over compensating ad hominems attacks out the way are you going to actually address the points criticism being made? If not be on your way and just agree to disagree.

[@Diana-ny4bc]

@@Terminalsanity seems like a troll.

[@eliashernandez1423]

Rest in Peace Carrie Fisher!😭💐 You were too good for the sequels. Star Wars is nothing without you.

[@jesustovar2549]

I got into Star Wars at the age of 10-11 with all the amount of hype that wen through Episode 7 in 2015, I didn't miss one single Star Wars marathon on tv (at least until I got the six movies on dvd), I saw Clone Wars (2d and 3d) and Star Wars Rebels, watched gameplays and Star Wars YT channels, researched on Wookiepedia and learned about the Expanded Universe (both Legends and Canon), even watched documentaries, commentaries and interviews with George Lucas. I was about to experience my first Star Wars movie in theaters, I went with some of my family members who loved the saga, we loved the movie, but even back then I noticed the similarities with Episode 4, I loved seeing the old protagonists although I would have liked to see them all together. I rewatched the movie like 3 times. I really loved experiencing Rogue One at theaters and I regret that I didn't watched it on 3D, It was amazing to see Darth Vader for the first time on the big screen, I watched it another 4 times. When Episode 8 was released, most of my partners said that it was bad, I was able to notice some details that bothered many but I didn't hate the movie, but the moment when Luke threw Anakin's saber I was like "what?" while some of the audience laughed, I only rewatched it once, the film got worse the more I thought about it and more with each review and analysis that I saw on the internet, even if liked some aspects like Kylo and Rey fighting with Snoke's guards or Luke and Leia's last scene (hands down best moment in the film). I went to the Solo movie with my Great-Uncle who also likes the saga and we enjoyed it, I only rewatched it once showing it to my Mom who didn't got to see the movie. When episode 9 came around I was no longer excited for a new Star Wars film, there was no salvation, my family had sent me the money to watch it but I didn't know what to do, I thought about not watching it but I did, the theater I went to was almost empty compared to the first two, Episode 9 is indefensible and cannot even stand as a movie on its own. I liked The Mandalorian and I didn't expect it to be very successful, to this point I don't know if I still consider myself a Star Wars fan, I feel like I already know what I needed to know, I still like to watch the original 6 movies from time to time and I love the score by John Williams YEAH even in the sequels. It's sad to see the state Star Wars is in now since it changed filmmaking forever, to the point that if it weren't for Industrial Light & Magic many sci-fi and fantasy movies wouldn't have been possible.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

You are a Star Wars fan. 1-6 IS Star Wars, and everything after, good or bad, is fanfiction. Personally, despite being a mega-SW fan, I'm starting to think we're getting too much of this fan fction

[@shadow_king12344]

@@officialmonarchmusic "fan fiction" delusional. Rouge one isnt fan fiction

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@shadow_king12344 Why isn't it? It wasn't made by George Lucas?

[@shadow_king12344]

@@officialmonarchmusic that doesnt make sense at all. Just because it wasnt made by George lukas doesnt mean its not star wars

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@shadow_king12344 Really? Cuz that's how I see it. Anything Disney Star Wars with no Lucas involvement, no matter how much I like it, I see as fan fiction. In many cases it is GOOD fan fiction. SW had a good end with 6 episodes, and everything after is an addition, not a representation of SW as a whole. Does that explain it better?

[@bobbyrodriguez5309]

FINALLY... someone who understands what's ACTUALLY happening at Lucasfilm/Disney. These are my sentiments as well. I understand that after the acquisition of SW, Disney would want to put "their" spin on it and take it in "their" direction. Having said that, there's a smart way to do that versus.... well, the way it's going now. What's so frustrating is the mishandling of the massive potential this franchise has. There's absolutely no reason why Star Wars isn't on top of the world right now. A smart move would've been to stay with the content already at hand instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. A 14 year old could tell you what direction this needs to go in. A Thrawn trilogy, an Old Republic trilogy, ANYTHING with the older Sith Lords (Darth Bane, Malgus, etc), Any Sith Lore or a BOUNTY HUNTER series, not mob boss series with Boba Fett, all would have been great directions for expanding the SW universe. And where in TF did they get all these lazy writers? None of them, outside of Filoni and Favreau, actually GET Star Wars or story writing for that matter. What's worse is that Bob Chapek is out and their bringing Bob Igor back in. In my opinion, Igor set in motion all the things that what we're complaining about now. I don't anyone who can right this sinking ships course correction, but if it were me, I'd ask George to head the whole thing and if he wasn't willing, then at least ask George who HE thought would be the best candidate to guide this franchise out of the dumpster fire that it currently is.

[@misterray8600]

I kinda think the only way to save the franchise is for Disney to sell it. Lets see how long it takes them to realize that tho cus they failed and they don't understand it at all. They could still keep the parks and it might actually make people want to go to them lol!

[@OfficialDenzy]

@@misterray8600 The only way to save this franchise is if George Lucas gets it back.

[@OfficialDenzy]

Yeah exactly. Star wars has so many cool stories already. And instead of using those stories they just invent new lazy stories.

[@murrfox]

Andor had a cameo! Probably rhe best cameo in the whole series! It featured Kyle Katarn's Bryar pistol in the hands of Cassian. I had to pause the show several times to get different angles of it and was super excited when i found out it was the same model! ❤

[@Melatoninist]

I once considered myself something of a star wars lore master at least among my friends I was always the one they would turn to for clearification or for finer details on the subject. Hours of my life spent reading books and comics rewatching movies I was proud of my knowledge and was excited for the next chapter Disney promised when they purchased the IP. Honestly it feels like they spit in my face and i'm sure others like me feel the same way. I checked out after Mando and I have moved on with my life; still a fan of the old stuff but I will not consume anything Disney has a hand in making ever again.

[@haroldb1856]

I think that many pre-Disney Star Wars fans feel the same way. Disney was so petty in the way they treated fans who cared about the story, the characters, the lore.

[@zrize101]

They screwed not only every fan but George Lucas himself. Although he sold the IP he had clear intentions for the Disney directors to follow in his intentions for the sequels, except they just said “yeah sure” and then proceeded to toss everything in the bin and cut off any interaction with him. And then they flopped hard. Outrageous. What a bunch of cash hungry idiots.

[@timbradshaw5481]

Maybe the reason u felt like someone spat in your face is cause you invested so much time in something that has very little practical value. So actually you see now that no one cares about starwars and the social standing you gained from it has disappeared and maybe it would have been better invest time into something that can make a difference.

[@Melatoninist]

@@timbradshaw5481 I simply value characters and story. I have an appreciation for well written lore and crafted worlds. Through the lens of these creations I am able to reflect on concepts such as morality or mortality ect. Stories are powerful things that can move us and shape us they always have and always will. It is deeply human it is who we are. Seeing someones creation exploited feels wrong that's what feels like being spat on.

[@gabedehlendorf]

I feel EXACTLY THE SAME, but I really think you should watch tales of the Jedi. It was genuinely the first content in the last decade that has made me as excited as the top clone wars arcs and revenge of the sith. They have abandoned prequel style content and I do not understand why. Hopefully tales of the Jedi expands for its s2. 6 episodes is a pathetic amount for a show that prob doesn’t cost very much

[@TheRedKobra]

Imagine writing for a three part trilogy and not writing the whole thing as a connected thing. How amateur. It's absolutely mind-blowing.

[@Vekkxd]

They got the Star Wars license and pumped out a movie ASAP to capitalise on the hype of Star Wars being back, then had Rian Johnson do the next one, with Colin Trevorrow doing the third, not planned well but ok let’s see how it goes, problem from there is that Johnson although a good filmmaker clearly was the wrong choice, he didn’t understand Star Wars, I’m sure he said in the past that he didn’t even actually like the franchise. So clearly a bad choice, then comes out with a movie that although a decent film, made absolutely no sense in the context of the story of the saga. Then Trevorrow, who wrote and was supposed to make 9, was fired due to “creative differences” which turned out to be that his whole idea for the film needed either Luke or Leia to play a key role, trouble was they killed off Luke, and Carrie Fisher passed away so it wasn’t really possible. So they parted ways and brought JJ back to end it as quickly as possible

[@officialmonarchmusic]

It gets more ridiculous that they believed in throwing Lucas's outlines out the window without a second thought, because they thought they could do better. Apparently better was a shameless thoughtless reboot of ANH followed by a fan attempting to make a meta-Star Wars movie about what the saga means to him in the middle of a trilogy, followed by what I can only describe as a big mess. And unlike anything else in Star Wars (up to that point), each movie made the others worse, not better

[@TheRedKobra]

@@officialmonarchmusic Absolutely. At least his would have seen Luke, Han and Leia share scenes. To say that's a missed opportunity is an understatement. 👍

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@TheRedKobra It's more than a missed opportunity. To me, anything not overseen by George is fanfiction, good or bad. George's final project would have been so impactful for me, and I'll never forgive JJ for what he did. He literally knowingly messed around with someone else's art against George's wishes and turned the franchise into any other franchise.

[@Spaijit]

In my mind, there's either two choices who can go down to save Star Wars. Either go down the Old Republic route as you said, or go another route for a new story to follow after ROTJ (essentially a new sequel trilogy, one that builds upon George's work. )

[@StoicSurvivor99]

Unless they downgrade the quality of the knights of the old republic as they did with their new trilogy. People with a slow brain cannot comprehend the quality and majesty of the story of kotor of what made these stories good in the first place.

[@jasonbower7763]

You're wrong. Nothing can save star wars. It's okay to be wrong sometimes bro lots of people are wrong a lot.

[@Spaijit]

@@jasonbower7763 okay...you good man?

[@jasonbower7763]

@Sean Paijit yup I'm good how about you bro?

[@Spaijit]

@@jasonbower7763 I'm fine, that last reply just felt a tad salty is all. No problem tho

[@gameragodzilla]

I’d say the other problem with Andor is the fact that for all of Rogue One’s praises, I found the characters in that movie fairly dull. It says something when K2S0 was the least robotic character in that movie. Hell, for a while I couldn’t even remember that Andor was Cassian’s last name. That and the fact that we know Cassian dies in Rogue One probably also contributed to Andor not doing well despite the show’s genuinely good qualities. A damaged brand and a character that wasn’t all that interesting prior to the show plus your aforementioned lack of cameos for a cheap thrill does combine to make it not do well.

[@Qdrophenia]

I've been wondering why I looked back fondly on the obi-wan series when everyone else seemed to hate it for ages and it totally clicked when you talked about Reva being a poor imitation of the second sister in fallen order. I'd totally been merging the two in my mind and now thinking of them distinctly, I can't bring to mind a single defining characteristic of Reva and the fantastic character writing of fallen order shines all the brighter. Must replay that game...

[@american1207]

It wasn't just Reva either, Obi Wan, Leia, Vader they're all written terribly. And while Disney loves to brag about their TV shows having massive budgets their fight scenes suck shit. Not just for the star wars shows but the marvel ones too

[@jamiekelly6851]

@@american1207 you are right, it's insulting how much arrogance they display in taking these character and in their minds "improving them" is just putrid. No idea what people even like about star wars outside of feloni and Favreau. Gilroy seems to do his research and understand the core themes while also getting the right people to have his stories and ideas fit the visual style and story telling of star wars. He is the only non fan who has actually done something decent with modern star wars.

[@nightwish1453]

personally I do see obi-wan to be a very meh show roughly the same as the boba fett show and to me the prequel atmosphere felt artifical and lacked complexity when it really should have been, kenobi like you said with reva being a poor imatation of Trilla from fallen order the show looks worse when compared to other star wars media even the vader reveal scene in rebels with ahsoka is somehow better than the scene in kenobi

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@american1207 I thought Obi Wan himself was written okay, and when the plot wasn't involved, I thought his scenes were actually really good. Separate from the rest of the show

[@Xavast]

I remember walking out of the theaters after The Force Awakens thinking *Wow, that movie made no sense and its pretty clear that Disney has absolutely no ideas for this franchise*. And then everything else that came out proved me right.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Same here - at least after about 30 minutes when my brain shook of the pretty visuals and began processing the "story" (or lack there of! I mean they reset Han, the guy had supposedly grown past being a smuggler - but now was back and still working with scum when he didn't have to anymore, he and Leia were divorced, Leia, the diplomat, was now a "General" (I am sorry, she knows jack-squat about strategy and tactics! As seen with that dumb evacuation in the next movie and them going down to a planet despite knowing they'd be trapped there...yeah, great tactic, Miss high and mighty general -.-)

[@lomiification]

They did a great job of vibes in the force awakens, at least

[@TheLaughingReaper525]

I remember my brother and his friends who dressed up for the premier. They walked out excited waving lightsabers around and were talking about how much they loved it. I guess I had a face of malcontent cause they asked me how I felt about it. I remember telling them "it was like a fanfiction from someone who skimmed the pre-established stories in this era and made their own anime self insert". It felt shameless, and that they were blinded with pride, and expected everyone to cheer.

[@RUSEOfficial]

I watched 'The Force Awakens' immediately after viewing the original 6 films for the first time. Having experienced it outside of the context of hype and buildup, I can safely say it doesn't live up to the previously established world in the slightest. It felt so disingenuous that I haven't even bothered to view Episode 8 & 9. What's the point? I'd rather not spoil the brand any more than I already have for myself.

[@KaitouKaiju]

It's like they deleted the entirety of episode 6

[@_thomas1031]

Andor certainly does give me hope for the company actually trusting good writers and directors🙌

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

@BK and that is 100% understandable. I too went into Andor not expecting anything. I didn’t want to watch it. But I like Diego Luna a lot so I decided to give as much of an open mind as I could and to my immense surprise, I was not let down. I was 100% wrong about Andor. Yeah it can be slow at times but that’s intentional. Andor bides its time in an intelligent manner and every detail matters. Please consider giving it a chance.

[@michaelharrington75]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 I wasn't expecting much either. I started watching it because I was bored one night, and after watching the first 3 or 4 episodes I could hardly wait for Wednesday to roll around to see the next episode. I even set my alarm 40 minutes early on Wednesday so I could watch it before going to work.

[@seriousnesstv7902]

Andor was very disappointing and I had no expectations for it

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

@@michaelharrington75 Seriously though. I've thought about so many things about this show since watching it.

[@VixxKong2]

Andor is mid. You guys are ready to praise anything that's slightly above garbage

[@vojtechlorenc5994]

Man imagine watching this after Mandalorian season 3 and knowing how disappointing it was. The hope was real and the downfall seams even bigger because of this.

[@nerdcantina5097]

I was thinking the same thing every time he mentioned it, i feel so sad honestly

[@formerlydistantorigins6972]

From watching this, I get the impression that you've gone through a similar journey with Star Wars, that I went through with Star Trek. I was brought up on the original movies, and loved The Next Generation as a kid and into teenage years. When the JJ movies came out, I thought them mediocre at best. Then Discovery and Picard came out and they just wrecked my enthusiasm, to the point of no longer caring now. If they'd announced a new movie of show tomorrow, I'd shrug and wouldn't give any thought towards it

[@Tamamo-no-Bae]

The biggest reason why the JJ movies didn't even remotely affect me was because they were meant to be in another universe. The entire concept was them not being connected to the same universe as the show. Discovery and Picard are however in the same universe as ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, etc. and I find that utter bull.

[@honeychicken1216]

should genuinely give Strange New Worlds a chance, while it has some flaws it actually feels like a Star Trek show. Something that Disco and Picard never really seemed to grasp the concept of

[@darrengordon-hill]

BASED

[@gronith]

Ya, I immediately was off the train after the first scene of TFA. Kylo is stopping Laser Bolts mid-air (some of the most powerful use of the force so far) and should be terrifying, but Po is cracking jokes at him. Undercutting the villain right off the start.

[@gman7497]

Instead of making him truly intimidating and ruthless Disney made him an awkward emo boy with mommy and daddy issues, not to mention a redemption arc that was just poorly done. There were no good villains in the sequel trilogy, just buffoons and overblown minions. And then they dug up Palpatine and assumed fans would just buy in coz he's a known quantity. Nope.

[@westonmeyer3110]

Bingo

[@Azarthes]

nah, that's pretty starwars

[@gronith]

@@Azarthes Ya because Luke was shit talking Darth during their lightsaber battle oh wait he didn't.

[@Azarthes]

@@gronith no but han solo and leia were sure giving vader as much sass as possible

[@whos-the-stiff]

I was there in 1977, my fandom began. I was there in 2017, my fandom ended.

[@darrengordon-hill]

BASD

[@XnonTheGod]

Champ

[@dionbaillargeon4899]

Thing is, the same thing has happened to me with every single J. J. Abrams movie I've ever seen: it enthralls me for 30 or 40 minutes, then it gets me hoping for something more for another 30 or 40 minutes before ending in total and utter disappointment. He seems absolutely unable to develop any idea in a consistent, interesting way. That was my experience watching Ep. VII for the first time: I still remember vividly being absolutetly blown away by the first half an hour, but by the end of the movie I was already bored and I realized very early on they didn't care at all for the story, were just rehashing all the old trilogy ideas and that the plot was probably going nowhere. Oh boy, little I knew to what extent that was going to turn out that way.

[@SASLEAD666]

Abrams is. Prodigal director and a shifty writer. I feel the exact same way slogging it through a gorgeous but nonsensical 2nd half. Lmfao even LOST went the same way

[@TheRogueJedii]

Mystery box Abrams can't make a satisfying conclusion to a story if his life depended on it

[@dionbaillargeon4899]

@@TheRogueJedii Yeah. And the fact he always creates such a cliffhanger for nothing makes it even worse.

[@drazen1972cro]

This. So much this.

[@Max_Le_Groom]

Cloverfield was shit.

[@wackyswacky1374]

Kylo not living up to Vader (as a villain) is a meta point of view from the audience. In universe, Kylo has zero reason or motivation to want to "live up to" Darth Vader. If anything, he should be struggling to live up to Luke, who saved the universe and is the master who trained and partially raised him. Kylo has no connection with his grandfather. And Vader in universe is not some iconic figure like he is from the audiences perspective, so Kylo essencially has a completely meta and out-of-universe motivation for his character and attachment to the dark side. Naturally, it is a concept that is completely idiotic and makes no sense narratively, something that is a common theme in the Sequel Trilogy.

[@ultimatehobo1054]

I distinctly remember leaving the theaters puzzled after force awakens. I felt so confused and so cheated from what was advertised. From the posters to the commercials prior to the official trailer coming out, they had almost made it seem like Finn was going to be a Jedi. The last Jedi was just awful. The rise of skywalker was also hard to watch. Palpatine somehow returned… wtf r dyads. Why does sheev keep electrocuting himself… was Kylo such a b*tch the entire trilogy. Why did she use skywalker as her last name? All of these questions and no answers… In my opinion that would’ve been a lot better then having Rey as the lead character and then suddenly becoming a Jedi. With the remainder of Disney Star Wars, it has always been one letdown after another with either nostalgia pieces or some outlandish things that don’t really make that much sense. In my opinion I do not understand how Obi-Wan never heard of Darth Vader in the 10 years span. It would be different if it was five years or even a couple of years after but 10 years was too much of a stretch. Also I forgot the girls name in the Obi-Wan show but if anyone knew Darth Vader‘s identity they would’ve been killed. I don’t know how the girls survived two light saber stabs in a row (Qui-Gonn in tears rn) Even the newest season of clone wars… well the last four episodes were golden, I just feel like a lot of it was a little odd or just felt really out of place. The Boba Fett show was such a fucking letdown Mandalorian and Grogu took over the entire show. Luke giving Grogu the choice between his armor or the light saber was really odd after Luke said he would right the wrongs of the Jedi. I’ve lost faith in Star Wars so I’m not watching anymore. Tales of the Jedi was ok, but too late for me.

[@dashboardmoney5743]

watch andor

[@penton778]

I had the exact same feelings after Force Awakens, no idea why it gets such a pass from fans, terrible movie. Essentially a B-rated kid friendly version of a new hope.

[@comet.x]

Personally i'm fine with the surviving a saber stab thing, but that's only because she got to pull a 'rage and dark side can keep you alive' uno reverse card. It's not like rage and dark side power hasn't had people survive worse. still a shit character though

[@immortalfrieza]

@@comet.x It's not like people in Star Wars haven't survived being stabbed by a lightsaber before.

[@immortalfrieza]

The Last Jedi was a masterpiece.

[@riddleharriet]

This is so interesting. I gave up on star wars 2 episodes into Obi Wan Kenobi and haven't watched anything since (even with my Disney+). I think I will give Andor a go as I've heard so many good things. But I think the problem with Andor underperforming for a lot of people is it's likely just too little too late. Those of us who were dreaming of a well written well thought out show have already given up on the franchise by that point, there's only those who just seek cheap thrills left. I'm certain if Andor had come out right after Rogue One when there was still a level of interest in the franchise from the old school fans it would've done much better.

[@TekkLuthor]

Andor is a victim of many people tuning Star Wars out at this point. Star Wars is trapped having to go back and tell its legacy stories now because the sequels broke the lore

[@darrengordon-hill]

CREATIVELY BANKRUPT

[@Gizmo1st]

'Filoni and Favreau get what the fans want' - boy, has that statement aged poorly.....

[@RawReviews.]

Personally I think Tales of the Jedi, Andor, and Mandalorian are some of the few signs of good stuff in SW’s future. Hope they get more control.

[@sweetpeach3649]

Tales of the Jedi was pretty mid

[@RawReviews.]

@@sweetpeach3649 I’m afraid I can’t agree but okay

[@majorpwner241]

Space AK-47s. They just shoveled out so much garbage you people got desperate and will accept any stupid thing.

[@shad3115]

@@sweetpeach3649Kenobi, book of boba, bad batch, and Rebels are mid. Tales of the Jedi wasn’t bad but definitely better than the ones I mentioned above.

[@Leitis_Fella]

Tales of the Jedi completely retconned the Ahsoka novel, which I thoroughly enjoyed. That novel could've been adapted and would have worked well. Dave Filoni has been actively overwriting supplementary canon. He only very, very loosely based an episode on the novel. I fear at this rate, fans will get tired of seeing Orange Girl and Filoni shoehorning her into everything.

[@jamiemunn9200]

Andor is the benchmark for writing, direction, dialog, and acting. It's fantastic and I believe a masterpiece.

[@chasehedges6775]

Andor is the best Star Wars product ever made. 😊

[@HansLemurson]

@@chasehedges6775 Empire Strikes Back was pretty good. Don't forget that Andor had 3x the run time to work with to develop characters and plots.

[@Yabadabaaa]

@@HansLemurson Empire Strikes Back is amazing with a lot of twists and turns but I think from an overall writing quality standpoint Andor is a bit better.

[@Milos596]

You are all lost.

[@Chriscraft-ug3sz]

@@Milos596 straight the fuck up finally a facts spitter

[@chovias6109]

i remember watching part 9 with my friend the first day and i can’t tell you how many times i turned my head to him in utter shock and disbelief

[@ProjectRedfoot]

That was me for part 8 lol

[@IagoVital]

same sadly

[@Patrick-fj4vz]

​@@ProjectRedfoot I actually liked TLJ. but TROS was a complete shitty FUCKIN' mess!!!! I was embarrassed 4 the people involved except KK!!!

[@MrTweetyhack]

you can't tell me because you don't know

[@haydentravis3348]

Oh god, they are. They are fan films. Disney is giving these indie budgets and hiring indie directors and paying entry level wages. For Star Wars. Lol. Like, we're getting what they paid for, I guess...

[@mansfiem]

Andor was superb. Just brilliant character development and storytelling.

[@megalord2598]

I like andor but it has a lot of problems. But still luch better than sequel trash or obiwan garbage

[@fundhund62]

It's a random science fiction show that has barely anything to do with Star Wars.

[@GSFBlade]

@@fundhund62 What is Star Wars?

[@fundhund62]

@@GSFBlade Watch Lucas' episodes 1-6, and you'll know.

[@AlterEgo756]

@@fundhund62 this kind of thinking is what gave birth to disney trilogy, "fans" like you who shuns good writing

[@aboutface102]

The really sad thing is Disney had so many opportunities to make the new movies good, and they probably couldn’t have done worse

[@victorfoxtrott1804]

I feel part of the problem with Andor not getting the views it deserves, is that people are generally fed up with star wars in general. I barely mustered the courage to watch it and i am glad I did, because it is, as you rightfully point out great.

[@roguishowl3915]

I really loved andor, it was refreshing to see something different with in the star wars universe. I’ve said this before, and it was mentioned here as well Filoni and Favaro need to be in charge of Star Wars why because they understand it, they breathe it and their direction for it could just be the thing that can save Star Wars.

[@ZendikarMage42750]

I stopped caring about Star Wars after the Last Jedi, and until we get the real episodes 7, 8, and 9, I will never care about anything Disney makes with the IP