Mozart: Sonata Nr.9 in A minor, KV 310 - Historical Tempo Reconstruction - Wim Winters, Clavichord

[@pavaomrazek]

Everything comes to place automatically and naturally in this tempo. The articulation, the accents, the dynamics... Magnificent!

[@vincentflack34]

Not a musician, i am eighty one, and have been listening to Mozart since my second grade music teacher at Prospect Hill played the minuet from Don Giovanni, but until now I have not heard Mozart. What theologian Karl Barth called "the gigantic reverberation," which, however, comes out in its power and truth only with your tempo, and pitch, Wim, albeit I grant freely that even played prestissimo where it should be adagio, the music of this man, astonishingly, gets through to me. So that before Wim Winters, I listened all my life to something somewhere between insanely fast and Wim, I did hear, and yet I heard nothing, if you know what I mean. Wow!

[@ExAnimoPortugal]

I know this sonata VERY well. I dedicated one year of my life to it. I even played it by heart in my graduation recital. I had no idea back then there even were metronome marks for it. You know what is very curious, Wim? The first movement is slower than what I played back then BUT BUT BUT the second and third movements are right about the tempi my teacher told me to play. I wonder if he was on to something, but was affraid to tell me about WBMP to risk his career. I remember struggling with the third movement, not because of the speed, but the rythm. I just didn't understand it. It was only when I learned that Mozart may have written this after his mother died that I really got the whole haunting aura of this wonderful piece.

[@voteforno.6155]

Having heard this about 100 times at the usual tempo, I think I need a few more hearings to process. One thing I do notice is that the harmonies and chord progressions are more striking here. Especially in the first movement some of the dissonances are very striking and unmistakable.

[@aha2700]

What a beautiful instrument.

[@zenmaster16]

I find that this type of performance breathes a whole new life into this piece. This piece was composed around the time of Mozart’s mother’s death. This piece performed slower (possibly correctly) makes it feel much more emotional, something W.A. was likely going for given the circumstances. The development section in particular is moving. The transition from the initial C major into the minor key feels much more painful than in other performances given the higher pitch (which comes across as shrill). I feel that Mozart would have taken advantage of this sound of the instrument. On a modern piano that effect is lost. Thank you for the beautiful performance and a different perspective on a piece that deserves it.

[@torstenhefer3118]

Just listened to your old recording on the clavichord today by pure coincidence - looking forward very much to the new version of this wonderful piece!

[@albertosousatenor]

Dear Wim, thank you for the video, your work has inspired me to take up the old piano pieces again, this time without that ominous feeling of helplessness of ever achieving those impossible metronome markings, so now my quarantine pastime is slowly getting through my Kunst Der Fingerfertigkeit, now with the metronome not as a torture device cruelly moking me, but as a friend setting a hard but achievable goal.

[@justkenmusic]

A beautiful and soulful rendering of this searingly haunting piece. Your interpretation of this work is very interesting. Your variation of tempo especially caught my attention . It was like hearing and entirely different piece of music. I’m learning this price right now and have been WORKING to play at 108 BPM. Now I’m going to rethink this in light of your recording. Our drive to play everything fast definitely does take away some of the sonic pleasure of this of music. An inspiring recording.

[@AuthenticSound]

Thanks!

[@maravillaromerojoseadolfo164]

God, the wait is killing me!!

[@jerryli821]

Anyone can hear this at the consensus speed. This is a real treat. Thanks. It's much more difficult (continuity) than it looks here. He makes it look easy.

[@musicalintentions]

Wonderful! I love hearing you play Mozart at the clavichord.

[@ALisztf]

I might be not right but I do think that this kind of tempo would sound nice only on this 18th century pianoforte. If we hear that in a contemporary grand Steinway, it would be boring… but still it’s so interesting to hear those magnificent pieces in (possibly) their actual version

[@paulgates8238]

This is an interesting performance, as are all the previous ones at the slower tempos. The discussions about historical tempos will never really end, of course, but several questions occur to me when I listen to these. As is readily apparent, the tone of the instruments of this period die away much more quickly. This would make any kind of legato problematical in any case, but at a slower tempo even more of an issue. The second question concerns the reputation of Mozart as a virtuoso. Given that the instruments of the time had a much lighter touch, therefore making quicker tempos even more possible, it's hard to imagine these slower tempos would have given rise to any sense of virtuosic ability on his part. The third question would be about the difference between solo keyboard markings and instrumental/symphonic/vocal music markings. If the tempo markings in his operas were cut to half their usual speed, for example, it would make the phrases in his arias impossibly long (which I can attest to as a singer). Comparing a couple different recordings today (Alfred Newman on a fortepiano and Alfred Brendel's 2002 recording, as well as this one), I was struck by what, for lack of a better term, I would call the rhetoric of the presentations. Newman's is so fast that it seems rushed. The clavichord recording presented here seems lugubrious by comparison, of course, but certainly allows for a good deal more nuance. Although Brendel's recording is obviously on a modern piano, the tempo strikes me as that happy medium where the articulation is clear and concise, moderate enough to allow for the delicate nuances inherent in the music, and at the same time fast enough to impart a sense of forward motion which the slower tempo here struggles to maintain.

[@shrihansuchit6647]

if you want to listen mozart as a virtuoso hear his variations recorded by wim these are made for learners as said by mozart himself. In light action it is more difficult to play properly because the keys go down instantly so more focus is required unlike our modern pianos. If you hear other harpsichordists or clavichordists playing at modern speed they never clear (my view) no singing style .

[@gracee819]

I love the best of Mozart's Sonata. Thanks a lot for Wim!

[@thomashughes4859]

Another favorite of mine I played at competition and I got into university with. Lots of technical demands in half beat, though I did not play as fast as Lupati by any stretch. Looking forward to it, Wim! 😎👍

[@SinaFarhat]

Hello Thomas! How do I get in contact with you? If you want you can find me on belola at gmail com

[@amaroletras725]

I love your precision and control in executions. You get beautiful effects, highlighting parts that other performers overlook. Thank you for the excellent contribution you have made to all of us who love classicism.

[@BaaFoKeemb]

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. LOL

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

I'll say it again, the utter reasonableness of the "slow movement" tempos has to count as seriously convincing evidence that your interpretation of the MM numbers for the "fast movements" are correct. I am finding that Mozart is far more intensely moving at these tempos, it makes you understand why at the time he was called a "romantic" composer. It is simply so much more substantial at these tempos.

[@kaybrown4010]

Thank you, Wim. That was a heartfelt, lovely rendition.

[@InfinityGamingYT1]

Stick it on 1.5x speed for the Authentic Sound.

[@AuthenticSound]

Better idea, why simply stay away from this channel?

[@awfulgoodmovies]

This sonata was written around his mothers death...they have been playing it like a dance hall number for 200 years..it needs to played with respect...NOT double the speed.

[@georgel2201]

@@awfulgoodmovies Do you have any idea what Allegro maestoso means and what is its usual use in music? the description is clear and there is no room for misinterpretation. moreover as you can see it is not a funeral march. It is true that there is a rumor that it was affected by his mother's death but there is no certified report and also the way he externalizes his idiosyncrasies in this particular first mov sonata is in a more passionate and dramatic way which is achieved if played within a fast tempo with the appropriate of course temperament.

[@jesuelalinsunurin777]

Oh roasted

[@RezaChity-G]

Where did you get the clavichord?

[@classicgameplay10]

I think he restores and tune old instruments.

[@MarzoVarea]

He got it from its maker, Joris Potvlieghe.

[@classicgameplay10]

You should do Mozarts sonatas on other instruments as well.

[@AuthenticSound]

coming!

[@charlesmartel7502]

That trill at 19:23! I can't quite see clearly enough to know how you are fingering it. Could you share?

[@AuthenticSound]

just 2/3 (with some stupid little mistakes in my left hand :-))

[@surgeeo1406]

@@AuthenticSound No no, not mistakes, happy accidents.

[@ajestiandan6218]

While on our Mozart journey, perhaps we could explore more of those ouvertures please? 😬

[@dantrizz]

Coming back to this video years later, I'm actually a little torn as to what to make for the 2nd and 3rd movements. Not because they sound bad, quite the opposite, I rather like the tempi inandof themselves, but the Italian tempo words are throwing me off a little bit. I've actually decided to construct my own tempo table to find speeds I think appropriate for a given tempo word and I decided on Presto to be 108 for the crochet if there are 4 notes per pulse of the music, and then adjust that tempo based on notation such as the shortest structural notes. For this presto the whole beat reading means it's the crochets are going by at 88 but only with quavers as the fundamental structural note, so in my "tempo system" I would make that somewhere around 135 in stead of 108, but that would mean this perfomance needs to be 53% faster to match that. Since that seems so off from what I'd expect someone like Moscheles to understand as right then if I feel the quaver as the pulse of the music then there is only 1 note per pulse going by at 176 bpm. So, for me, either I'd go with 120 for the 8th note (which means it would be about 70% of this speed) or I could possibly go for 150 for the 8th note (if 32nd notes are considered when counting in 4/8) meaning it's 85% this speed, or possibly even as high as 159 meaning it's about 10% slower than this. I'd love to know what the thought behind achieving that exact number is cos I'm thinking my approach isn't as accurate as I'd like Edit update: Taking the assumption that the 2/4 for the 3rd movement Presto is actually serving as an equivalent of a cut time alla breva, I've now found myself reaching the tempo for the 1/4 note to be 85/quaver = 170 (or an alternative of 1/4 = 90 / 1/8 = 180). So very much in line with the metronome mark here. I'll have to get better at reading the character of the piece purely by the notation for future tempo reconstructions.

[@cretium805]

Presto. At that speed. Really? If this was the word used in the manuscript, do you really think Mozart would've meant this tempo with the word "fast"? Does your theory really weigh heavier than the application of common sense on the composer's own words?

[@AuthenticSound]

yes. Since it is either this or double. The presto lies in the jumps and is felt in counting not in quarters but in eight notes. ALso see the constant accent on the second 8th note. But more importantly, how many allegro's, even the slower ones, are simply impossible today? Why does Gardiner takes, notwithstanding his claims to play exactly in Beethoven's MMs, the allegro MA NON TROPPO, of the 4th symphony considerably slower than the MM? At least I can PLAY the presto's in those tempi, if you apply modern reading to authentic MMS, you cannot anymore in many examples. And so what can we learn from that?

[@cretium805]

@@AuthenticSound 1. Moscheles was born after Mozart died. He never met Mozart or saw any of his performances. Though his word is not meaningless, he has no absolute authority over the tempo this should be played on. 2. Mozart was a child prodigy and virtuoso. It's common sense that some of his pieces would be difficult to play, especially since it's not uncommon for a finale to be a showcase of virtuosity. At double speed, 176 bpm is perfectly within the agreed upon range of presto within the classical tradition. Then again, Mozart could've also meant 168 bpm. You made a video about the 1793 Haydn recording, clearly people did have a thing for speed back in the day (and what other word would have been used to describe that, other than presto or prestissimo?). It's very well possible that in this spirit Moscheles went even past what Mozart intended when he added the metronome marking, driven by Mozart's myth-bordering reputation as someone who could play beyond most other men's abilities.

[@musik350]

@@AuthenticSound No further answer to that well-written, fair argument? Very disappointing - just like your entire community

[@Adi_Ivgi]

​@@AuthenticSoundhow exactly is this impossible in the regular BPM? You seem to make the argument that people simply don't possess the ability to play the real tempi, rather than them having artistic integrity/respect for traditional playing, there are SO many good performances in the tempi you claim to be impossible, this argument simply doesn't work

[@thomashughes4859]

This performance was outstanding! Thank you. I have never been able to hear what was going on in the piece because of the too-fast tempo I once played it at. I appreciate you. 👏👏👏

[@miguellegaz1416]

Can you record all the classic music in history at the real tempo please? Thanks for showing us this wonderful new (and at he same time old) way of hear this music

[@AuthenticSound]

Every Monday one little step in our premieres at 7.30PM CEST!

[@miguellegaz1416]

@@AuthenticSound I´ll be There!

[@classicgameplay10]

At this tempo, this can continue to be called Mozarts hardest sonata ?

[@BaroqueBach.]

Yes. It is incredibly hard to achieve a performance like this at this tempo, if anything it is more difficult due to the sheer amount of details that are presented at a tempo that they can be contemplated in.

[@EdmundoPFN]

It's striking how the scales sound melodic at this tempo. Still, that's one of those master pieces that I love in single beat as well. Thank you for sharing this.

[@antoniavignera2339]

Sonata Mozartiana che richiede molto precisione per il cambiamento metronomico maggiormente nel 2 tempo .Un sincero complimento a Wim Winters .

[@WarinPartita6]

Interesting​ interpretation. Thanks.

[@dantrizz]

this might be the most passionate version of this sonata I've ever heard

[@123Joack]

Yes! Maestoso :)

[@wally3086]

Thank you for the beatiful music!

[@daviribeiro8325]

This is his 8rn sonata

[@andreagregori3143]

Fantastic!

[@arvindramesh6442]

Isn’t this number 8?

[@saif-senpai7746]

9

[@leandroemmanuelalvarez6439]

This is the Sonata n°8!

[@AuthenticSound]

not in the new editions, they switched that with n°9 in dating the composition, see the intro of the NMA

[@leandroemmanuelalvarez6439]

@@AuthenticSound so, how is it then? Isn't this the K.310 and the 9th the K.311?

[@kefka34]

Great playing! The first movement which is marked Allegro maestoso is in my opinion similar to the first movement of Beethoven´s op.111.

[@elitefitrea]

Whatever you do, DON'T listen at 2X speed

[@dougr.2398]

elitefitrea don’t give people IDEAS !! ;-D

[@kaybrown4010]

Five thumbs down already, the night before? Stay classy, naysayers!

[@bryanbarajasBB]

I can hear Beethoven's third symphony at 26:44 😉👍

[@petertyrrell3391]

Which bit?

[@paltieri11]

🥳

[@PFunk-vf1nh]

Tempo ok, but I don't like the sound of this instrument.