#MT27

This video shows the Emergency Stop button on my Sieg SC4 lathe malfunctioning.
It also shows how I fixed the problem with the help from Arc Euro Trade.
I hope it helps others who encounter a similar problem.
If you can offer me any help or advice, please leave a comment.
If you would like to keep informed of my new videos, please subscribe.
Backing track credits......
Music: (intro) Water Lily by the 126ers - KZbin Audio Library
WARNING: Metal turning can be dangerous! I am not sure whether the methods I use are established ones, and I do not recommend them.
Please do not copy me without doing your own risk assessments!
You are responsible for your safety - not me!

[@backyardmechanic921]

Thats why I love my old Myford no electronics to go wrong. I have a Sieg mill and I have had no end of trouble with the boards going wrong and they arn't cheap to replace. Glad you got it working again, it's always a bit heart in mouth moment when you start fiddling with all the wires and stuff.

[@learningturningmetal]

Yep, not ideal. I had an old myford ml8 woodturning lathe a few years back and it was great. I guess if the controller packs in totally at least I have a spare without an emergency stop function. Cheers Andrew

[@brandontscheschlog]

Thanks for posting about the fix for the SC4. I Will add this to my shortlist of SC4 videos. Hopefully one day I will start making youtube videos using my Sc4 and Sieg X2 with the content I have already recorded

[@learningturningmetal]

No worries Brandon. I hope you never need to refer to it. Good look with the vids. Cheers Andrew

[@binness]

Well done Andrew, the only thing I would add to other suggestions, is always start with the most difficult screw/bolt/component first, then if you can't budge it you haven't dismantled too much, then contact a friend ( youtube ), I hear what you say about the speed of shutting down with stop button versus emergency button, but the main point of the Big Red Button is you can whack it with anything to stop the machine, you don't need to point gently with one finger like you do with the stop button, stay safe mate and I hope you never have to whack your Emergency button in a true emergency.Bob

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Bob - fair point. I agree, I hope I never have to use it too! Take care. Andrew

[@daveandersonangry]

its a good idea to take a photo of the electrical connections hope this helps

[@TheDieselmb]

Hey andrew no E stop on my old classing pre 1976 . Just lots of belts and gears spinning around. So I must be on my toes at all times when operating it maybe I should retro an E stop into the motor .anyway thanks for taking the time to make the videos . Keep up the good work. PETE USA NEW YORK

[@TheDieselmb]

Sorry four typo it’s clausing

[@learningturningmetal]

Yeah Pete - you can't really beat the old stuff (H&S excluded). I have a 1962 Meddings floor standing pillar drill and it runs like new. No E stop on that either. Cheers Andrew

[@stevebosun7410]

Hi Andrew, really useful video, thank you. ARC seem very good at sending out parts. Is that typical? Presumably they wanted the defective parts returned?

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Steve. I think that if you can clear demonstrate a faulty part (eg by send them a brief video of the problem) Arc seem to be pretty swift at replacing it. I believe Arc have a good direct relationship with Sieg and, in this instance, they didn't require me to return the faulty board. Cheers Andrew

[@lensman5762]

Well done. Delights of Chinese machinery ownership. One soon becomes a tech. Try not using the emergency stop button for stopping the lathe. The stop touch pad stops the lathe by applying a soft stop protocol and the avoids the strain on the motor and the electronics, the emergency one is for a sudden stop. Look forward to seeing the 10V finished.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully it won't be too long before the 10v is finished. Cheers Andrew

[@KevinPrice5]

Andy, great info, as I am just about to purchase a SC4 from Axminster, they want £1889 (with the base/stand) where did you get yours from.?

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Kevin I got mine from Arc Euro Trade. Currently around £1500 with stand. Save yourself £350. I'm sure the machine is identical. Arc are also a good company to deal with. Good luck. Andrew

[@buserror]

Hello, why did you upgrade? I've just watched you unboxing a SC3 in an early video, and now, it's and SC4! Did you return the SC3? Any reason? I'm looking to buy a first home lathe (I've had lathe training when I was a wee lad) but I dont' want a toy, nor do I want to overdo it... Is the SC3 too wimpy ?

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Michel. The sc3 is a good starter lathe but I found that it needed some work before I was really happy with it. A carriage lock is a major requirement as parting off can be challenging. Check out my other videos on sc3 upgrades. The sc4 is in a totally different league, loads of power, relatively easy parting off, fine and coarse power feed on the carriage, plus power feed on the cross slide. Works great straight out of the box. I thought I might keep the sc3, but having got the sc4 the mini lathe just gathered dust. If you have space and cash, go for the sc4! Good luck. Andrew

[@modelsteamers671]

Hi Andrew, it's a shame the lathe developed a fault after only a few months but on a positive note ARCeuro are always helpful. Maybe you have different electricity up in the grim north ;-)

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Pete. Yeah not ideal but Arc were pretty good. All the best. Andrew

[@gillian9178]

Hi Andrew can i ask you about your SC4 lathe, I know its a larger more capable lathe than your Mini lathe. But does the Mini lathe compare favorably with the SC4 apart from its smaller capacity, appreciate your comments on the Mini lathe good & bad points. Thank you.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi. The sc3 mini lathe is pretty good for the price but it needed some modification to get it right for me. Parting off was difficult until I made the carriage lock - which was a real success. Exposed gears behind the carriage handwheel need covering to prevent swarf from entering. The speed display I made was a great improvement. Having said that this little lathe is definitely capable of machining metal to within a thou and it doesn't take up too much space. The SC4 addresses all the above points and it also includes a coarse and fine feed on the carriage, plus a power feed on the cross slide. It's a far more powerful and substantial machine, capable of machining slightly larger diameters, and I am really happy with it. If your budget can stretch to an SC4, then I would recommend you get one. I kept the SC3 but so far haven't used it again. Hope that helps. Cheers. Andrew

[@gillian9178]

@@learningturningmetal Thanks for your reply Andrew, i wasn't looking at budget at all between the 2 lathes more the better choice between the 2 machines. I dont really do much large or heavy work these days & the Mini lathe would probably do most of the work i need to do. But as they say only buy once so i might be better going for an SC4 size machine, have you had any issues with the SC4 apart from the electrical problem you had with the circuit board & did you find any thing you needed to do to the lathe to make it better suited to your every day needs like you had to do to the Mini lathe. Thanks.

[@1shootist477]

@@gillian9178 you and I appear to be on a similiar hunt. Though I have a micromark 7x16 now I'll soon need to replace it. I'm considering the little machine shop lms 3540. The best of luck to you with your decision.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi@@gillian9178 . Apart from the controller board, I've not had any other problems. I did purchase the SC4 quick change tool post from Arc. It's not the best qctp but far better than the std toolpost. I already had a 4 jaw chuck, so I didn't need to buy anything else or make any mods to the lathe. Cheers Andrew

[@martybadboy]

I know it was disconnected from power but those screws falling out and hitting the table at 4:15 sounded like a short circuit to me! ⚡⚡😱 Nearly had to change my shorts there. Crikey is right!!!

[@learningturningmetal]

Ha ha. I always remember an electrician changing a fuse box under the central heating boiler in my old house. The boiler kicked in and he jumped out if his skin and hit his head on the boiler. Poor bloke.

[@robertoswalt319]

I am somewhat troubled that the emergency stop button is connected through the control board instead of sitting between the main power leads and the control board.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Robert. I also thought it strange but I guess they have done this to avoid high voltages at the switch? Take care. Andrew

[@allanclement4109]

Hi Andrew. My Lathe has stopped going forwards but runs backwards fine, would you know why this could be? (My lathe is a C4A)

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Allan. My guess is that it's a controller board fault. Try posting the question on the various model engineering forums. Eg model-engineer.co.uk and Home Model Engine Machinist. There could also be some existing posts covering this problem. Good luck! Andrew

[@adaml52]

Hi Andrew, That's not good, my Sc4 is nearly ten years old with out major issues. That's nearly £270 worth of parts if you had to buy them !. Arceurotrade has never let me down with any products they sell. Good on them for their quick response for replacements. Give the old controller PCB a quick check for dry or cracked solder joints. I noticed the fan is in a different place on mine !. ATB Adam

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Adam - good idea. I'll get my circuit tester out and have a play. Cheers Andrew

[@adaml52]

+Learning Turning Metal - by Andrew Whale Please be careful probing the capacitors, short them out first. A visual check of the joints with magnifying glass first. Adam

[@learningturningmetal]

Ah - good idea!

[@semyil751]

Hey, I have the same lathe with a different name which it is jetco jml-3s. They are exact same lathes. However, I have a problem on my lathe nowadays. I made lathe work a couple days ago and turn off the lathe and then turn it on again about half hour later but the fuse that on the front panel which is above the green light pops out. I replaced the fuse with same one but pops out again. I tried 5-6 times but each time it just blew. So I've checked the control board, servo motor, screen boards etc. I didnt see any damage on them, and even the fuse on the control board was working. So, do you have any idea what's going on my lathe? Thank you.

[@learningturningmetal]

Please see my reply to your similar message on a previous video.

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Andrew, Can I ask two questions? 1) Have you have had good service from Arc the lathe supplier. 2) Can you cut left hand threads on the SIEG SC4 Thanks Paul,,

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Paul 1) Fantastic service from Arc - second to none. They are quick to respond to queries/problems and have the attitude of not letting problems rumble on. Very customer focussed. I've not got any commercial involvement with them - I just find them an easy company to deal with. Delivery is pretty quick. If you order a large item (pallet delivery) you generally get a phone call the next day to arrange a delivery date sometime over the next few days. Other companies I've dealt with are pretty poor at communication, they take your money, take a while to deliver, and leave it up to the delivery company to inform you of the delivery date. 2) You can cut left hand threads on the SC4. This involves reversing the leadscrew by swapping a gear around - not somethingh I have tried though. Bob Ackert produced an excellent supplement to the SC4 instruction manual where he explains how to do it. Bob's supplement is very informative. It is free to download at: www.fenichel.net/pages/Indoor_Activities/metalworking/lathe/Bob%20Ackert%27s%20SIEG%20SC4%20Manual.pdf I've found the SC4 lathe to be an excellent midi lathe and it performs really well. I'm over the moon with it! Hope that helps. Cheers Andrew

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

@@learningturningmetal Thanks Andrew... that helps a lot...

[@marktownsend2384]

I've had my SC4 for several years now and when I close it down at end of job I always pop the emergency stop button in. It's how the guys at Axminster did it when I had my training and now I'm wondering if they knew about this possible "Fail Deadly" bug. If you turn on the power and the lathe starts right up then it means the controller board has a fault and the emergency stop is no-longer trustworthy. I only found this video because my Lathe did this very thing a week ago. My first reaction was that some conductive shavings had got behind the control panel and shorted the connection on the Emergency Stop button, but testing the button revealed it was fine so now I need to go back to Axminster to get a new control board!

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Mark. Yeah it looks like you have the same problem that I had. When Arc sent me a new controller they mentioned that another customer had recently experienced the same problem. So maybe a design fault. If Axminster say it's outside warranty it might be cheaper buying a controller from Arc. Alternatively just purchase an emergency stop switch and install between incoming mains and the sc4 power plug. It seems crazy to me that the sc4 estop is wired into the controller. Bad design. Apart from that I think it's a great machine. Good luck. Andrew

[@marktownsend2384]

Thanks Andrew. The purchasing system at work means it's easiest to buy a replacement board from Axminster. Once I've replaced that I'll add a mains interrupt stop. I'm hoping I can take a look at the board and see what's died and maybe come up with an indicator of some sort for the future. @@learningturningmetal

[@rontocknell3592]

You now have a spare emergency stop switch which is apparently okay. If you can find what's wrong with the old control board and fix that, you'll have a spare control board. All you need to do now is get back to ArcEuro periodically with issues about the chuck, the tailstock, the topslides, the ways, the spindle, the gears and the motor and you've more or less got a spare lathe.

[@learningturningmetal]

Ha ha - nice thought! I must say though that Arc were quite responsive in sorting the problem out and with next day shipping of the controller. They seem like a good company to deal with - though I have spent a few bob with them in the past. Cheers Andrew

[@manudehanoi]

ive got the exact same problem, but changin the whole board seems overkill

[@learningturningmetal]

An easy solution is to buy a separate e-stop button and put that between the mains power socket and lathe. I did this as an extra safety feature and bolted the e-stop to the front of my lathe. Some of my most recent videos show the front of my lathe with the e-stop attached. I think someone else suggested that a relay was at fault and that this can be replaced if you gave decent soldering skills. Hope that helps. Cheers Andrew

[@manudehanoi]

@@learningturningmetal the E stop they use is rated 3A at 220V and 5 A at 110A, it can't handle the full motor load, that's why they use a relay

[@tkarlmann]

I think it is extremely poor design practice on the part of the design of the Electronics to have the "Emergency Stop Button" require a working control board in order to function!! (Electronics Engineer of 35 years here.) That Emergency Stop should interrupt power directly. Your issue here proves that. Emergency Stop should also employ Dynamic Braking, IMHO.

[@learningturningmetal]

I tend to agree. I'm surprised the design actually meets with British standards.