MTB rear suspension (Ep.4): Which is the best system? Singlepivot, FSR or VPP?

Which is the best rear suspension system in the market? VPP, Maestro, DW-link, Single Pivot or FSR? Is it true that FSR is better for downhill and VPP better for pedalling? It depends! In this episode I will explain why you should compare particular designs for each bike instead of comparing suspension systems "names" as a whole.
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[@fleetadmiralsidiqi1941]

Love how you are bringing the fundamental engineering to the sometimes very "sales-pitchy" mtb tech conversation. Thanks!

[@andrextr]

+H. M. Tilford Thanks man :)

[@jackschreuder5657]

this channel is so helpful and really helps with tuning your bike especially a downhill bike

[@andrextr]

+Jack Schreuder thank you Jack! Share it with your friends :) bye

[@ricreynolds]

I love this,,,no marketing folks involved,,,just engineering analysis,,,awesome,,,this breakdown is very useful to the consumer of full suspend bikes,,,this is the best breakdown of competing suspension systems i have come across,,,great work, Thank You mister....

[@andrextr]

thanks! I have more 15 videos like this, check it out :) Bye

[@lukecocksedge4467]

What program are you using to model with?

[@andrextr]

+Luke Cocksedge Linkage X3 from bikechecker

[@heinzketchup3323]

Nice picture on the wall :D

[@andrextr]

+Heinz Ketchup :D

[@canadianroot]

+Heinz Ketchup It would look even better if there were a bike in it.

[@BOOGiNS]

andrextr can you make a video analyzing the dw link suspension and progressivity on the turner DHR? i would love that!

[@ajayrohra2920]

which software is best for bike Suspension simulation??

[@maartenmtr3022]

@@andrextr what software are you using here? THank yoU!

[@charleshennings5134]

Great video, my dude! I've been obsessing over two bikes with different linkages, but this and you other videos definitely ease my mind... I'll have to buy both lol

[@onetime242]

Thanks man, I was just curious to know how my bike measured up on the graph to help me fine tune the setup.

[@deca321]

The best way to go out and ride them. It is different in real world :P

[@jamesnolan3634]

Love your videos. I just bought a 120mm travel 2020 Scott spark 940 - it’s a single pivot design. My old bike was a 2010 Specialized Epic FSR with a Horst link design. Although the Scott feels very capable, the rear suspension feels a lot less sensitive and lively than the Specialized..... but that’s just my subjective opinion ...I’d love to know the actual technical facts of how the Scott suspension performs. Pleeeeese do a Scott spark video 🙂

[@ZR1KOH]

"Hi guys, welcome to my FART video of mountain bike..." Lol...

[@andrextr]

+ZR1KOH lol

[@prociclobr]

Olá colega. Muito legais os seus vídeos. Explicados de forma bem técnica e clara. Muito obrigado por compartilhar essas informações conosco. Grande abraço. Gefe.

[@bejiejumamoy2263]

Hey bro. I really satisfied on this overall video ... 👏👏👏 But can I know what type of Software you used ?.. Many Thanks

[@andrextr]

Linkage X3, I have a video about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/havPpmR_lKd7gtE

[@AlexeiPavlov]

This video works as a sleeping pill! 😂 😂 😂

[@RideAlongside]

FSR = Horst Linkage Design

[@zerriox]

Hi, awesome and useful video.. Can you tell me which software this is? Thx and keep going🙏🏻

[@andrextr]

Linkage X3 , i have a vídeo about it 👍

[@RxMTB]

Great explanations. Basically, it is best to test ride the bikes you are interested in and see if the characteristics of that bike suit your riding style and preferences. To get real technical we would need to produce these graphs for each bike we are interested in and then compare beginning, mid and end strokes of the suspensions travel and match that to the terrain we usually ride. If you did that, by mimicking the geometry of the bike into your simulations, I think you would get TONS of hits on your videos! This way people could compare the popular years' models spring curve to their riding style and conditions. I am interested in buying the 2016 Giant Trance Advanced 1 soon. I hear that the suspension system is great for small bump sensitivity but bottoms out quite quickly. Would that match a regressive curve like the Reigns? Good thing the virtual pivot point reduces the bottom out feeling. I have not felt this on my test ride of the bike but bunny hopping off curbs in a parking lot really isn't the best indication of how a bike will perform :( Man, your videos are great and I hope you get more subs. Thanks for the explanations.

[@RxMTB]

P.S. Like how you change the picture in the background and you've got a new subscriber in me.

[@andrextr]

+Christian Moniz Thank you! I will try to do more linkage analysis for the popular bikes at least. Progressives bikes are sensitive on the beginning and hard to bottom out. Regressive bikes are the other way around. They are stiffer at the beginning and easier to bottom out. Check ep.1 and 2 where I explain that. Giant Trance is a slightly progressive bike. Reign is also progressive. The virtual pivot does not reduce the bottom out feeling, per si. I mean, you can have a virtual pivot bike with a very regressive leverage ratio (and easy to bottom out). What affects the most the leverage ratio is the position of the shock and the geometry/position of the "link bar" that joins the triangle with the shock :) For instance, Nomad II and Nomad III are both VPP and have a virtual pivot, but Nomad III (and I) are much more progressive than Nomad II. Bye

[@RxMTB]

+andrextr Thanks for the response! I really like how in Scott Genius LT review you matched the math to how bike reviewers would explain the feel of the bike. It REALLY puts 2 and 2 together! I'm scouring your channel for more analysis since 2016 Trance Advanced 1 and 2016 Stumpjumper Elite are the two bikes on my short list. Unfortunately, the Santa Cruz Nomads and the Yeti SB5C are way to far out of my price range lol.

[@andrextr]

Thank you! OK Trance and Stumpy are in my list :D I will try to do it next week :)

[@RxMTB]

That would be amazing! This would really help me make a more informed decision on my bike purchase!!!!

[@thelenzperspective8297]

Great job putting this together, thank you for the knowledge!

[@paulh6467]

193cm 105kg compared to a 75kg rider please.

[@andrextr]

You would need a 40% higher spring rate to achieve the same SAG and the same feeling, in the same bike, when compared to the 75kg rider scenario. It would also require more 40% of force to bottom out but since you are also 40% heavier, it would feel the same as the equivalent scenario for a 75kg rider... Bye :)

[@sircrab1675]

This is quality content

[@diegougarte]

Great job dude!! can you please compare the giant reign 2007 - 2009 - 2015 models??

[@andrextr]

I briefly compared the reign 2005 with 2015, for a 32T chainring, and apart from design & weigth issues, in terms of kinematics they are quite similar. The newer model has a better braking performance, but nothing too different. Otherwise, both are good for pedalling and the progressivity is not much, but it's normal for an enduro bike in both cases. Bye

[@diegougarte]

Nice! but what happens wih shocks?? the 2005 uses 200mm and the 2015 uses 216mm one

[@andrextr]

The average leverage ratio changes (thus the pressures /springrate will be different to achieve the same SAG), but the shape of the leverage ratio curve is what determines the progressivity (and they remain similar). Bye

[@totetronico]

Nice Job! thanks for sharing !!

[@Metal-Possum]

Of all the bikes I've ridden, I've found a very basic single pivot with a coil spring to be the most fun.

[@andrextr]

Alex Paulsen the only problem of singlepivots is only if you ride very aggressively with bigger impacts and jumps because singlepivots are not progressive because the leverage ratio is constant. So they bottom-out easily. Unless you have a very good shock like Ext Storia with hydraulic bottom-out control to compensate. For normal trail riding without many impacts then a single pivot is just fine! 👍

[@dallysalyno4151]

im from 2020

[@sdqsdq6274]

so which type is the best all rounder ?

[@andrextr]

You can get good results with many designs (when they are properly optimized for the intended use!). My favorite is the old Horst-link but the Dual-link (eg. VPP and similars) can also get good results. If the particular design is not properly optimized then it will be always bad independently of the system used. Singlepivot bikes suffer from been too linear (its not possible to make it progressive, eg. Orange bikes, which can be a problem if the intended use is for aggressive riding style... it is not a problem if the bike is for XC/trail riding styles).

[@obi-wankenobi9871]

+Andrextr An analasys of the Pro10 linkage would be cool. Propain (they made Pro10) are gaining a lot of popularity these days.

[@GabrielSTEFAN943]

Hi! Verry good videos about mtb suspension! Well done! Do you know the magic link suspension from KONA (2+2, Abracadabra, Cadabra 2012, 2103 models)? It is interesting by simulating the graphs for this suspension like in your video, to determine the leverage ratio fonction for these special suspensions.

[@gedons7011]

+andrextr Great video! What I like to know: Which linkage-design provides best durability for the bearings/bushings? Some people claim vpp to be notorius for wearing bearings fast, some people claim that Horst-Link suspension (or generally linkages which have a pivot next to the rear hub) are wearing out bearings fast. Some people on the other hand say that single-pivots are most durable. However single pivots concentrate all the load on one pair of bearings. Can you shed some light onto that topic?

[@josanchez0319]

...hi!!! could you do an analysis of the Felt MTB Equilink suspension format (Felt Compulsion model) tnx!!!

[@andrextr]

It's a bit more complex, because it's a 6-bar, but it's possible. From a quick simulation, Felt Compulsion has an anti-squat around 110-120% (32T chainring) at SAG. So it pedals very good. The anti-squat decreases a lot at the end of the travel, therefore, pedal kick back is quite low at the end of the travel. Anti-rise around 75% (normal value). Progressivity around 30% (also a normal value for an enduro bike). Overall it's a good bike and and an innovative system, but you can achieve a very similar result with a 4-bar system (like the VPP for instance). Bye

[@andrextr]

By the way, the owners manual of Felt Compulsion (link: www.feltbicycles.com/Resources/Manuals/Compulsion_Manual.pdf) has some kinematics graphs (without many details though). However they confirm the simulation results. Bye

[@josanchez0319]

+andrextr wow!!! that was quick, I previously owned a 26" wheel Compulsion & would want to have a go with its 27.5 brethren soon. it does pedal very well even on rough technical trails. Pls, do a simulation whenever you got time to do so. Tnx a lot man!!!

[@ChrisBryanTisSkinny]

lol at the girl on the bike that appears and disappears in the picture towards the end of the video

[@jonienglish3231]

very good video i have a raleigh adrenalin "Faux Bar 4 linkage with coil spring " for average bike ride feels good cannot really tell difference . with other suspensions designs . Just ride no fiddling with air shocks ,

[@onetime242]

Hello, can you please show me the rear suspension curve for a 2013 Intense Uzzi with an air shock so I can get the best setup for my Fox Float X2. Thanks for the informative videos

[@aldrinthomasgomary1900]

Which is the software used to suspension analysis

[@jrmtb1503]

Hello best syetem pivo Santa Cruz vs yeti

[@eMacDj]

Horst Link

[@johannvidelarodriguez4357]

What software is that?

[@andrextr]

"Linkage X3" simulation software (MTB suspension Ep.16) kzbin.info/www/bejne/havPpmR_lKd7gtE

[@hugojaaa9331]

Could you do analysis on Boardman 8.9 suspension please :)

[@sickBARRS]

hey man awesome video thank you! could you possibly do this for my bike? haha if its to much to ask no worries... But I just picked up a polygon vander N7.. itd be cool to see how it works to help me tune the suspension! Thanks again, cheers mate!

[@andrextr]

Hi Tyler, check my site www.andrextr.com Thanks

[@vvtt1823]

Awesome videos. Really like your series. Would be nice to see videos explaining Anti-Rise, Anti-Squad and Pedal-kickback graphs and how to read them. For example looking at a bike in linkagedesign.blogspot.bg/ would make a lot more sense Cheers

[@andrextr]

+Vasil Tashev Hi Vasil! Yes, for sure! I will explain it on a future episode! Already did some filming for that. :) Although I might need more than 1 episode to explain all of that :) Stay tuned! Bye

[@michaelsha2781]

may i know what software you are using to show the force

[@andrextr]

“Linkage X3" simulation software (MTB suspension Ep.16) kzbin.info/www/bejne/havPpmR_lKd7gtE

[@richardjeffery517]

Fsr or a pivot point on the dropout.

[@lboogie6029]

Great information, thanks! I have a Specialized Enduro 29 2017 that came with the Ohlins air shock. I have the option of swapping out to the Ohlins coil. I've been told that the suspension design on this bike is progressive, so the coil is tempting. Would you recommend the coil for this bike? Thanks for your time!

[@andrextr]

Hi Loren. Specialized Enduro is not very progressive (it's slightly progressive, almost linear). Unlike YT and other brands, Specialized make their bikes pretty linear. If bottom-out is not an issue for you, you can go to coil. Still, coils do offer some bottom-out resistance (they have the stop rubber bump). Also, you can increase HSC to further increase bottom-out resistance. Bye

[@HectorG-h7s]

best suspension ever is dw link

[@joelrunyan1608]

...... DW link. End of story.

[@fotisvasiliouadamou]

i have a question that has half of bike community torn apart. has the single pivot pedal kickback and brake jerk? is it possible to eliminate it by changing the position of the pivots? is the single pivot in this regard really inferior to other designs? great work btw!

[@andrextr]

+Fotis Vasiliou There a ton of myths regarding the singlepivot and I could easily do a full episode about that. In fact, most modern bikes don't have brake JACK, they have the opposite, which is brake SQUAT (meaning that when you brake, some of the braking force will compress the rear suspension. When you have Jack the suspension extends, and it's a bad thing, but not very common... it happens with Lawwill suspension designs for instance (search for Rotec Lawwil on google) , and that's why the brake calipter in those designs is mounted on a floating brake arm, you can see that on pictures. By having that floating arm they can correct the Jack problem and have a normal Brake-Squat instead)... So, does singlepivot bikes have Brake SQUAT? Yes, they have, as most of modern multi-linkage bikes also have! Do single pivots have kickback? Yes they do, as most of modern multi-linkage designs also have... Because in most bikes the chain grows when suspension is compressed, so you have pedal kickback. Do single pivots are bad at pedaling? No, they can be quite good! Check my Orange Alpine video, or even the videos for Evil bikes with Delta system (still a singlepivot, but with a shock linkage)... Are singlepivots better than multi linkage designs? No, they are not. In fact with a multi-pivot bike its possible to have a better compromise in kinematics (or if you screwed it up, it can be worst also!). The pure singlepivot bikes (prophet, orange bikes, etc) don't have a linkage (rocker arm) on the shock, thus, it's not possible to get a progressive leverage ratio. It's very hard to tune the leverage ratio on those designs. Also, with a multi pivot design you can achieve a better balance between braking performance and pedaling performance, in singlepivots it's not so easy to achieve that, since everything is controlled by just by the position of one pivot. To conclude, singlepivots are not better than multi pivots, but still they are quite good and can be even better than many multi-pivot designs out there in market. Bye

[@charlesquinn5252]

What is the difference between the rear suspension with a spring around and the on that doesn't

[@charlesquinn5252]

can u ajust coil shocks?

[@sibasisnayak8256]

Can you please tell which software are you using ?

[@andrextr]

+Sibasis Nayak linkage X3 .

[@stonedDawg]

hey man, can you help me out? my bike manufacturer shared a very limited information. I want to know about the FS2 links (polygon) and especially about my bike( polygon DHX 2014), is it progressive or regressive, can you help me out?

[@andrextr]

+Stephen Kenneth Yes I can help you. Just to be sure, is this bike? I will try to give you an answer until monday. If not just remind me again. Bye. polygoneeimages.s3.amazonaws.com/images/18672/dhx_frameset.jpg

[@andrextr]

+Stephen Kenneth I did a quick and crude model, and the bike is super-progressive (very similar to YT Tues). Leverage ratio around 4 --> 2.3 (2600N to bottom out in the progressivity table of my linkage analysis videos, for a 70kg rider 30%). If you have any more questions feel free.

[@stonedDawg]

+andrextr yeah that's the bike.... oh wow you replied fast and thanks a lot man for looking into it for me! really big thanks!

[@eschmit]

I have a spz sx(2005) and I changed my original shock from 190mm to 216mm, like a sx trail, but the sx trail has a different point of fixation and the bike seems very progressive, can you simulate? thanks

[@andrextr]

You changed the shock length on your SX using the same fixation point? That will mess a lot with the geometry. SX trails are progressive but not much (they have like 30% progressivity). Unlike YT and other few brands, Specialized bikes usually are not very progressive. Bye

[@andrextr]

404 Error. Send it to me on my Facebook page (message). facebook.com/bttveredas

[@paulh6467]

Thank you.enjoy your videos very much

[@andrextr]

+Paul H thank you Paul:)

[@onetime242]

Hello, can you please show me the rear suspension curve for a 2013 Intense Uzzi with an air shock so I can setup my Fox Float X2 properly. Thanks for the informative videos.

[@andrextr]

+One Time The Float X2 is a twin-tube shock, you have a big wide range in adjustibility. It can fit almost every bike independently of the kinematics. I will make a video this week on how to adjust the HSC and LSC. Regrading the rebound, check Ep.5 where you can find a great starting point for a perfect rebound adjustment. Stay tuned :)

[@andrextr]

+One Time Not sure if it helps, but I have done already for the 2016 Uzzi. I believe that the 2013 is similar. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZKZpZd6eKiZr6s

[@DiagMTBchannel]

what's the software you're using?

[@andrextr]

+DiagMTBchannel its in the description. but it's the linkage www.bikechecker.com/

[@DiegoRodriguezAW11]

best suspension vids i ever watched!!

[@andrextr]

+Diego Rodriguez Thank you man! Bye :)

[@omaralejandro2329]

hello andrextr how do you get these shock (coil-oil) is exclusive for linkage x3 professional, i have the personal license. regards!

[@andrextr]

Do you mean the piggy back? There's an option there to enable the piggyback. It's just cosmetics, it wont affect nothing, but looks cool :) Bye

[@andrextr]

the option is under shock menu

[@omaralejandro2329]

yeah i found it, the piggyback thx

[@simbico]

Awesome!:)

[@serum-114]

Now go look at Tantrum bikes, and model the 'missing link' 6 bar design. everyone who has ridden one is saying it is super plush but pedals like a hardtail- and 'no cliche about it' it actually does this. pedals like a hardtail but still handles hits and remains plush under pedal pressure or not, and no fancy lockout or electronics needs. it is all done by where the pivots and links are located. truly innovative and the guy who designed it has roots in suspension and in bike industry, not a noob.

[@andrextr]

That tantrum bike has a very regressive leverage ratio, with a negative progressivity of ~35% (meaning that it's ~35% easier to bottom-out than a fully linear bike with the same shock conditions). You can easily see this on this animation: www.pinkbike.com/video/448619/ (see my comment). There's been a lot of controversy about this bike on the internet between the founder of the bike and some linkage experts, eg: forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain/new-inovative-suspension-tantrum-cycles-any-thoughts-1009862.html and ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/ridemonkey-how-to-series-throwing-a-tantrum-in-public.276830/ .... The bike also has a very high anti-squat at the beggining of the travel, that's why the suspension extends when you apply chain torque. Don't want to be mean, but in my opinion, their marketing claims are too much exaggerated (not to say they are bull crap). Bye

[@serum-114]

the bikes will be hitting the trails spring 2017 so we'll see what the masses decide when they review it. 'will bottom out this bike pretty easily' that is not what people who have ridden the thing recently are reporting. I will argue no further, will let other reviewers or owners rate it good or bad.

[@andrextr]

Yes, I also don't want to argue further, and I don't like to be critic, but with a leverage ratio starting at ~1.5 and ending at ~3.0 the result will be quite obvious. But let's wait for the reviews. Bye :)

[@Merkaba954]

could you please do this same analysis for the non maestro giant single pivot design found on the Giant Stance?

[@andrextr]

+jamsnation I have a video for Giant Trance analysis. Regarding the Stance, the bike is OK, but it is not very pedalling efficient given the quite wrong location of its main pivot (instant center). It will bob a bit with the shock in open mode on higher front chainwheels. You'll need to use a shock with a pedaling/climbing switch mode. Consider the anthem/trance instead. If you already have one stance, don't worry too much and enjoy :)

[@Merkaba954]

+andrextr Yea i have a stance the anthem wasnt in my price range. and yes the stance does have a lot of bob while pedalling. i am going to upgrade to a beter shock for peddaling than the monarch R. its a nice plush shock but the bob is strong

[@andrextr]

+jamsnation Also check my video of the Rebound setting. The rebound does not eliminate the bobing, but a faster rebound can amplify the oscillations which is annoying. Check this out if you didn't already... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJqrgpdqot-fabs

[@leenevin8451]

consider getting s microphone or putting more furniture in room to dampen echo

[@andrextr]

+lee nevin Thanks. Yes the sound quality is bad in this video but in my more recent videos the audio is better.

[@leenevin8451]

fair enough mate, ill be giving them a watch soon!

[@Lanahalandoni]

How about u mono link? Like scott genius lt bikes

[@andrextr]

+julius victor Tupas Hi there! Glad you asked that. Indeed Scott Genius LT is not a well designed bike in terms of suspension linkage & kinematics. Basically, Genius LT has a low pedaling efficiency (low anti-squat %) and a regressive leverage ratio, which is far from being the ideal for an enduro bike..... I have some linkage analyses on my youtube channel, and I will do it for the Genius LT in the next few days for sure (stay tuned!). Bye :)

[@andrextr]

+julius victor Tupas Check it out !! :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmTRqJtpbtSVf9E

[@libertyliberty4371]

Hi what a you from?

[@andrextr]

Portugal :)

[@andreano81]

Coil shocks are not linear. Basically two types of rear shocks are dominant today: monotube (RC4) and twin tube (CCDB, Fox x2). Both have a reservoir (even inline shocks without piggyback) filled with nitrogen or air which keeps oil under pressure in order to eliminate cavitation. This reservoir is compressed by the volume of the shaft. Monotube use a large diameter shaft (12-14mm) and therefore the volume by which the reservoir is compressed is quite large.Therefore they are quite progressive. Twin tube shocks recirculate oil inside and don't need large diameter shafts (6-8mm usually). However they are still progressive a bit. You may think of coil shock as a combination of coil and a small air canister.

[@andrextr]

+Andriy Gavrylenko Hi Andriy! Thank you! Yes, you are right! Indeed, the IFP chamber contributes to overall spring rate. I already did some videos and experiments about that I will try to cover in more detail in a future episode that topic. I don't want to spoiler the future video (lol) but the IFP contribution for the total spring rate is between 5 and 10%, depending on the shaft diameter and IFP pressure (the force that IFP produces is equal to its pressure in PSI dividing by the shaft are in square inches). Moreover, air shocks also have that IFP pressure issue, so the IFP is common to both shocks and it's not the main differentiation factor. Usually people tend to ignore IFP effect, but yes, you are right and the effect is there and it is not zero! But, what contributes the most to the progressivity in the coil shock is the "rubber" stop bumper. I will make a video today where I briefly talk about that. Bye :)

[@andreano81]

+andrextr Looking forward to your upcoming video. There are monotube shocks which are designed with bottom out resistance in mind (RC4 / Moto c2r ) and have far greater than 10% increase in rate.

[@andrextr]

+Andriy Gavrylenko Yes, but that effect is also due to the increased compression damping and not to the IFP spring rate effect alone. In a position sensitive damper like the RC4, the amount of damping is proportional to the IFP pressure, and also to the compression speed (they are both position and speed-sensitive). So, at the end of the day you have the IFP pressure contributing with 5-10% to the overall springrate and you also have the force created by the compression damping circuit, which is proportional to the shaft velocity and also to the IFP pressure. By decreasing IFP chamber volume via the bottom-out external adjuster you increase the IFP pressures at the final end of the travel, at that will increase the global progressivity by that 2 factors explained above. Bye.

[@andreano81]

+andrextr Compression damping circuits are oil flow speed sensitive. In other words compression damping depends on shaft speed alone. The RC4 has something else - boost valve as they call. It is pressure sensitive valve (additionally to shims and orifice) that indeed increases additionally compression damping with pressure. But this is specifics of RC4 shock. Increasing pressure doesn't affect shims or orifice damping. Also please consider non IFP based designs. There are many bladder piggy back based reservoirs (dvo jade, avalanche woodie, etc.)

[@andrextr]

I will talk about the bladder designs on the IFP episode :D Thank you for you comments :) Did you saw all my videos in a row? damn! eheh Today I will upload another one. Bye!

[@nochill3799]

cool picture on wall side also the model also

[@mattleonard5268]

i like the characteristics of single pivot bikes

[@andrextr]

The main advantage is that they are simple. However, the singlepivot offers some disadvantages in a designer's perspective way. In a future video I will talk more about some particular set of characteristics for each system, but for singlepivot bikes, you can't get a very progressive suspension (usually the max that you can get is a very slightly progressive one), and also, you cannot get a very independent suspension from braking (but that also happens in a certain way with VPP suspension, and it's not very important). Singlepivots can have a good pedaling depending on the position of the main pivot (good anti-squat), but usually the anti-squat amount stays quite constant over the whole travel, and that gives more pedal kickback. On the other hand, some VPP-like designs can achieve a good anti-squat in the first half of the travel, and then the AS decreases a lot, resulting in a quite lower pedal kickback. We can discuss these details better in a future video, but for now, just keep the message of this video (that within each system you can have distinct behaviours). Bye

[@mattleonard5268]

i love how poppable and playful my single pivot bikes have felt, versus my fsr, which felt stuck to the ground and a little indifferent to some bumps.

[@andrextr]

I would say that was probably due to a different shock and not to the suspension system. :) Anyway a singlepivot suspension can be a good choice for a XC / Trail / AM usage. For more aggressive stuff, it's better to have a bit more progressivity which singlepivot can't achieve (due to the lack of a rocker arm). Bye

[@mattleonard5268]

i know that its a more bike-by-bike basis, because many single pivot bikes will ride differently from each other.

[@jameswilkins8530]

Did da Vinci invent the electronic picture frame as well? :)

[@andrextr]

lol :D

[@jameswilkins8530]

Great videos, BTW. Not talented in engineering myself, But I DO appreciate a plush ride, and have been trying to find middle ground between boutique/premium rigs and bargain basement.

[@andrextr]

+James Wilkins Do you need any advice?

[@jameswilkins8530]

Hoping to buy a full suspension sometime in March/April. I have had only one old Schwinn full suspension in the past (S-20, there may be archival info online). The rear triangle was called 'sweet spot' or something like that and, for my purposes, it worked well. I rarely venture off road, but it is fabulous to have FS for those trail opportunities. I want to spend about 2500 to 3000 USD at the upper end. Certainly appreciate any advice you have. Also, like the idea of a higher bottom bracket as I am not going to do mountain biking per se. But need wide gear range. There are Knoxville Tennessee Urban Wilderness trails that I have yet to ride.

[@NSMB]

If you rarely venture off road do not get a duallie. That is our unsolicited advice.

[@jpferrant]

What program are you using for your drawings and animations?

[@andrextr]

Linkage X3

[@thomaswhudson]

I am torn on getting the Giant Stance 1 which only has the Flex Point suspension but all the other components are nice vs the Trance 3 which has the Maestro suspension system. Do you have any advice?

[@moar666]

thomas hudson I was with the same question that you have. I have now a giant Anthem.. the stance is good if you don't use it a lot. Is cheap in all senses , even in the material. If you want something to use many days and conditions you should get the maestro suspension that came with a better aluminum. Also feel lighter the rear triangle .

[@stilianivanov3377]

Whats the program that you are using ?

[@andrextr]

Linkage X3. I did a recent video about it. Bye

[@zoranpl]

You know Canyon is very popular in Europe,many,many owners who are interested in this sooo ... what's your rating-opinion for kinematic of Canyon Nerve 29 2013,2014 ...

[@andrextr]

+zoranpl Yes, I know Canyon... almost bought one back in 2008 :) I will make an analysis to Canyon models in the next weeks. Bye :)

[@zoranpl]

+andrextr Would appreciate...thanks!

[@lucasbhogal3790]

What are you using to show these animations, with what do you create them?

[@FunkYourMom]

Сэнкью вэри мач!