MTG's Biggest Scandals

[@jensnielsen4585]

You've been really popping off lately, Vince. Really feels like your channel has entered a new phase and I'm always excited to see updates from you in my feed. Your Folk Horror video is one of my favourites, and it feels like your content is only getting better.

[@PleasantKenobi]

Wow. Thank you! That's actually so kind of you to say. I feel confident, and feel like I am carving out a niche. Genuinely, thank you so much.

[@salfredo]

I 100% agree

[@calmarac]

Ima third this one! Its been awesome. Seeing the variety and energy is awesome.

[@belurso5179]

@@PleasantKenobi You're quickly becoming one of those "drop everything, x released a new video" channels. Great work, mate

[@zoobnash2578]

Noticed this as well 👍

[@JD-gk7eh]

The Goyfgate thing always struck me as people touting their "morality" when they would have made the same decision in that situation. It's virtue signaling at its finest, another easy moment of armchair quarterbacking you see all the time. "Magic glory" isn't worth much of anything; winning the event is nice but no one is going to remember that. And if there were no prizes at all, how many people would spend money to travel to these events--you can't sell or eat "the glory of winning." The goal at a tournament is to WIN PRIZE. That's really what you are there for. Getting a card worth...maybe $1000? Yeah, that's a prize. Take it and be done with it.

[@toromisher]

This was the issue my lgs group had for the most recent baldurs gate draft prerelease. None of us gave a shit about winning a btec game of drafted commander when we were going to just put all the cards we pulled into our decks that we would be playing for real for the rest of the weekend. So we had a weird kinda of shared understanding that we would all pick one card we wanted to actually play and one we actually wanted to keep each rotation. Just so we didn't have people just literally taking all the expensive cards and scooping.

[@selfmarv]

@@XCodes Watch into this a bit deeper as those „butthurt“ people where some of his best friends and their behavior was an act to make fun of their friend. It ended up being taken serious by the community but was in fact only a joke.

[@michelmorin2894]

@@selfmarv Seriously, I hope so... at least in the case of William Jensen that, as being part a minority, should know what it is like to be bullied. At least enough to not bully someone over a stupid tournament... For what it is worth, I think Owen was being serious, he ended up being a jerk in every way, so are we really surprised

[@incandescentdream]

Yep. I'd have kept it, you'd have kept it, we'd all keep it.

[@MsMiDC]

Everyone that said that they wouldnt take it are fucking liars.

[@brokenphantom3g]

Interestingly, I don't even know if the "Pen Trick" would work on a new player. It works because it plays to a piece of metagame knowledge that more experienced players key in to. "Oh, he's already getting ready to change his life total, this should get through." If you're not a player who's seen and experienced this enough, it may not even register as something you would pay attention to.

[@timbombadil4046]

It wouldn't work on me, despite playing for decades. My experience isn't playing on rickety conference room tables, where a paper record to show a judge if there is a disagreement is necessary. If you're as likely to used dice, a dial, a phone, or whatever to track life totals as you are paper then it's not a consideration your likely to have.

[@D2and2D]

In games there are two people to fear, the noobs and the veterans. noobs because they wont fall for a trick that would work against veterans...and veterans who wont fall for a trick against noobs xD the most dangerous chess player can be an ametuer, as it makes them incerdibly hard to predict!

[@Renozuken_]

My favorite part of a lot of the bluffs you can do in magic is that they only work on players who are good at the game, I can bluff that I have fatal push by leaving up one black mana but it doesn't do shit if my opponent doesn't know what fatal push is.

[@KAR1492]

Watching this I was literally saying to myself "it's funny how Huey and Reed were so upset about the goyf thing but were silent when their buddy was literally sexually assaulting people" but you went on to hit that nail on its head. thank you.

[@jianxinhuang7068]

Part of the Goyfgate portion of the video was somewhat poorly researched. Maynard said himself in an interview that those comments were made as a joke by friends. But it's understandable that most people don't really care about context and just to be angry at something. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKXUo5SIe8h6b68

[@AntonioHachi]

I remember when I first heard of goyfgate. I was still kinda new at the time so I didn't really understand the problem at first. And even when it was explained to me I still sided with the guy. Even if goyf wasn't 400$ it'd still have decent enough potential in an opponents deck so why let it pass? Years later and I 100% believe he was right in taking it for many reasons

[@ilikeapples1]

Right? I can think of dozens of drafts I've been to where someone hate-drafted a card just to reduce their chances of having to face it. It's a legitimate strategy.

[@zimoy.701]

The fact is that goyf is far from a bomb in limited, so hate-picking it definitely was not an option. The monetary value is probably also not super relevant if you've got an income, some savings, and are well-to-do. However, if one wanted to pick it as a souvenir of sorts, that's of course respectable.

[@zimoy.701]

@@XCodes "That Burst Lightning might be good removal in general in the limited format, but it's probably never killing that Tarmogoyf -- at least not until that Tarmogoyf has done a lot of damage." You have not played a lot of limited.

[@zimoy.701]

@@XCodes You don't seems to play limited.

[@dane_anubis6213]

I didn't see thie issue then or now. The deck was still good and if he lost he still won a foil goyf. Felt like a good and fun call, and it's a game so have fun and take the card you like occasionally

[@T_Peazy]

I think Reid Duke and some others said pretty early on that they were just ribbing Pascal on Twitter and that Pascal even knew that they were kidding. I remember the vitriol around GoyfGate at the time though, and it didn't seem like that at the time.

[@MoarRainbows]

Once at GP Liverpool I was playing burn vs humans, it was game 3 and they would have lethal on board, but on my turn before they could kill me I drew a rakdos charm, I need them to play one more creature for rakdos charm to be able to kill them, so I spent a bit looking like I was doing math and quite confidently said "Okay, goblin guide pass", my opponent looked rather perplexed, so played another creature to buff their other humans, I slammed rakdos charm for exactsies and felt like a god damn king

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

so you only won because you were able to decieve a human (an easy task) and not because you were the more skilled player. you should be ashamed of this story.

[@MoarRainbows]

Lol

[@Okiesmokie]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Making his opponent over commit so that he has lethal is not deception, it is skillfully evaluating the situation. Also, i before e except after c, you should be ashamed of this comment.

[@arandombard1197]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 He won because he bluffed his opponent into over-committing.

[@twilightcall06]

The goyf thing was so stupid at the time. You're not telling me that those who were bitching wouldn't have taken the card if they were in the same position. Hypocritical BS.

[@viziroth]

Bluffing is 100% a part of magic. Some of the original sets even had cards to encourage this before getting heavily erratad or banned. We still have mechanics like foretell and morph. I don't see things like the pen trick being any different than putting on an arrogant smirk when you have a hand full of lands. Do agree it's shitty to do to someone that's still learning the game, though.

[@fatpad00]

2 open blue mana. Not playing your land drop when it's your last card in hand. Classic bluffs. IMO when information is hidden to 1 or more players, bluffing is integral to the game

[@Przemko27Z]

I feel like the cards that used to encourage it being heavily errated or banned might be an indication of something...

[@calebbarnhouse496]

If bluffing wasn't apart of the game then you wouldn't hide your hands from eachother, however if information is in the zone where it's freely available, purposefully having things set aside so you can rely on them just being confused by your board state is scummy

[@serachobby]

Not MTG related but a well known YGO player got banned recently, because he allegedly explicitly revealed a token unrelated to the deck he was playing as a bluff, then mentioned it on video that he did it explicitly to gain an advantage.

[@PleasantKenobi]

That is FASCINATING - what was the players name? That sounds like a great topic for a video!

[@ZakanaHachihaCBC]

I’ve heard about this. It’s a joke really. Can’t misrepresent a game state if there is no game happening. When I was on Ad Naus I had a poison counter in my deck box because Unlife. When infect was big I did the same while on Titan, still do out of habit.

[@serachobby]

@@ZakanaHachihaCBC it's a very very minor advantage if at all, only matters if your opponent goes first, and people use all sort of shit as tokens (hell, all official YGO tokens say on them 'this card can be used as any token). While I think a 1 year ban is harsh, I do think however doing it explicitly to attempt to mislead your opponent before the game even begins is a bit of a dick move.

[@ZakanaHachihaCBC]

@@serachobby Dick and underhanded move? Sure. Cheating? No. Like if they are going to ban them for that, they should have also banned Hoban back when he did the “I sided it out but brought the other copy in” stunt. Granted he should have been banned when he compared that to slavery, but thats another can of worms.

[@serachobby]

@@ZakanaHachihaCBC the Hoban Djinngate stunt was worse than this imo. I get it, it's a competitive game and people want to win, but just outright lying to your opponent is a massive dick move.

[@spitfiremase]

Unrepentant criminals bullying people for taking expensive cards or having done their time already will never be not rage inducing. Turtenwald and Woods were really just out there.

[@virtueofabsolution7641]

Wait were they actually convicted of crimes?

[@gragsmash]

That settle was so amazing when it happened. It really makes me miss big paper events with coverage. Arena is too fast for storytelling like this.

[@andrewgraff2794]

Lands in front is the original way the board state was depicted in old instruction manuals I started in ice age and this is how I learned to play, I agree lands in back is way better though. I sometimes find myself playing lands in front the first few turns and have to rearrange after a bit cause old habits die hard

[@dyne313]

I have no idea about "being in old instruction manuals". But lands in front is how I and everybody I played against when I started playing circa 1995 or so.

[@WhiteBorderMTG]

I play lands in front too, but I also usually play decks that don't have many creatures either. But that "rule" is only for WotC live coverage, so unless you're on camera for a PT (or whatever they do now) as long as lands and nonlands are distinctly separated you can place them in whatever orientation you want.

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

Personally, I feel like you should be allowed to play lands in front, just so long as you keep your creatures (including Dryad Arbor) distinctly separate from your lands.

[@faseel4392]

@@WhiteBorderMTG the game layout rule is for any comp REL event, not just for matches on coverage anymore. Under Magic Tournament Rules (MTR) 4.7 “Game Layout”: “From the player’s perspective, nonlands must be kept closer to the player’s opponent than lands, and no non-land cards should be between the land area and the edge of the table closest to the player.”

[@EffinChat]

Even though I'm quite an entrenched player (I remember goyfgate kicking off), I really appreciate your inclusion of quick explanations of terms that we as players take for granted. It's an excellent accessibility inclusion for people who might have come into this from an outsider's perspective or for newer players who are looking to get into more of the game's history. Setting good examples my king

[@Flip4Crypt]

I personally think that Settle the Wreckage play was really well done. He wasn't hiding that he had 4 mana available and he wasn't hiding that the card was in his sideboard, therefore available to be played He was just emphasizing that he COULD do the land activation I think it was well done

[@spammyv]

My thoughts on the scandals is: -The arbor trick is just on the non-scummy side of angle shooting. I don't hate it, but I think the change was for the bettter. -Goyfgate doesn't matter, whatever decision the drafter made would be the right one because it's their decision. -The Settle bluff is hilarious. When the level of competition is high do not trust your opponent and make them state everything. Also, communicate all your plays and passing of priority clearly.

[@saphired02]

Exactly, but I think the arbor trick is kind of scummy. If it's a creature, keep it with your creatures I see no reason to put it with your lands.

[@daftwulli6145]

tbh honest what pisses me off the most is intentional drawing. People allways say hey what is the harm bothv advance. The harm is that someone else, who should have reached the top 8 now doesn´t. In what world is that ok ?

[@Zaalbarjedi]

@@daftwulli6145 Well, the thing is, even though intentional drawing is controversial, you just cannot force players not to play for a draw if they actually want to do so. So, instead of making all top 3-4 tables play the whole 50+ minutes round with the goal of drawing their games, it is better to allow them to draw at the beginning for the sake of tournament run smoothly. I don't like intentional draws either, but they are necessary evil that you cannot avoid.

[@josedelavega4706]

" whatever decision the drafter made would be the right one because it's their decision." this is asinine.

[@rinbin9772]

@@saphired02 I see one reason to put with your lands. It's a land. I don't think it's scummy at all to say early in the game "I play Dryad Arbor," keep it separate, you make no note of that and forget later. You were just outplayed. I'm expected to remember all these triggers and shit. You should be expected to remember the board state.

[@Aggrobuns]

I love these story time videos of the history of the game. Not only does it convey what happened and the context of why it happened, it also shows the emotions of the players and the audience at that time. Great job, PK!

[@project_swift]

I love the "Bluffed Judge Call" for the Pithing Needle and asking if they could name Dark Confidant when their opponent had a counter spell in hand and 3 fetch lands on the table. The judge said Yes. He cast Pithing Needle, his opponent allowed it, and he named the Polluted Delta. One of my favourite cheeky plays.

[@yargolocus4853]

*right* because the ability is resolving, you can't respond to the naming anymore. brutal

[@vaderwashere365]

with so many activated abilities everywhere... what was he waiting to Counterspell lol? I don't think they bluffed the opponent at all, because they didn't even know what Pithing Needle did obviously... or what Counterspell is for.

[@ascott615]

I think Maynard's response to taking the Goyf. is a great commentary on pro magic play. Maynard's sentiment was that winning a GP is great but the Goyf. is a month of rent.

[@FalloutFan011]

Man, it's been such a long time since I've subbed to this channel and all I've noticed is an upward trend (in content quality, creation, creativity, comedic impact, etc.) Your content is really hitting it out of the park as of well, awhile now😁👍 Nice job and keep up this fantastic work 😁👍

[@DavidGreeneMtgJudge]

Bluffing: I was playing a casual game with a close friend I hadn't seen in years. He had a ghost quarter in play and asked me "do you have any other basic lands in your deck?" "No" I replied, and he used ghost quarter on my land. I fetched a basic. We laughed about this all week long.

[@DavidGreeneMtgJudge]

@@turnipy88 under the magic tournament rules, the number of cards in a hidden zone are considered private information, and private information does not need to be represented correctly at all rules enforcement levels. See MTR section 4.1 for details.

[@rinbin9772]

@@DavidGreeneMtgJudge Right? Especially for casual games it wouldn't make any sense that you are obligated to answer questions about your deck in a factual manner that give your opponent a play advantage. As far as I remember you're only given access to your opponent's decklist once you reach single-elimination at pro-level tournaments so you would have no way to confirm what your opponent said was true without looking through their whole deck mid-game which you can't just pick up someone's deck and do. You need a card effect that lets you search or look at their library.

[@kriosuranous3440]

Honestly, MtgGoldfish’s recent series on this topic (scummy or smart i think it’s called) has really revived my faith in the community, because in most of the comments they are usually on the side that bluffing is fine, especially in the pro tour.

[@Southlakesown]

Link?

[@kriosuranous3440]

@@Southlakesown the are others, but this is one they did on the pen trick. kzbin.info4IQrQuCPdmg?feature=share

[@silvertiger4441]

@@Southlakesown mtg goldfish shorts it’s called scummy or smart. Seth uploaded about 3 KZbin shorts/tictocs about it there’s many links available

[@FreeOfFantasy]

In a tournament you also always play the human. I mean making them wonder if you have an answer for what they are thinking of doing or making them think you don't have one, or making them think they know what your answer is going to be is part of the game.

[@dapperghastmeowregard]

Are we talking about tge same videos? From what I remember most of the comments are people fundamentally misunderstanding what bluffing is. If you wanna be really sad, check out PK's Chalice Checking video, there's at least one comment comparing deliberately ignoring a mandatory game action to the Settle trick.

[@raydelmartinez2905]

The last one was epic 😆. I could see this happening at my commander table, but I definitely agree that doing it to a new player during a competitive or limited casual event is an asshole move.

[@atk9989]

i agree with the last part but not the during a competitive game part. thats the whole point of competitive, you are playing with the sole goal of winning. I currently only play commander but i used to play Yu-gi-oh, and if money or prizes like say a box is on the line then idc if your new im not going to help you beat me, i wont rule shark you largely because i hate people that do. but im also not going to help the new player, and if my looking at my options for responses gives them some idea that that is defiantly the only thing i have to do then thats on them, and now they learned a lesson on not falling for bluffs. To me this is no different than the blue player looking at their hand and pretending to think about countering a spell when they dont have any.

[@Trisket]

@@jaywinner328 the first play in a vintage tournament being tapping out turn 4 to play a 3/3 french vanilla flyer is like showing up at a formula 1 event in a golf cart. It's especially funny because I can guess what was going on in your opponent's mind up until that point: three turns in a row of "Island pass" he's playing around counter magic, turn four he sees you tap out expecting something good, you put Phantom Monster on the stack and his mind starts racing trying to figure out what sort of shenanigans you're trying to pull with a card that is unplayable outside of limited. You pass turn. End of turn: "Lightning Bolt?" he asks, and to his surprise it resolves against a mono blue player who committed their entire turn to putting a flying Hill Giant on the board, in VINTAGE.

[@virtueofabsolution7641]

Only problem is that there really is no such thing as a “new player” in a competitive environment. You lose your babby plot armor the second you decide to sleeve up against me with actual money/pt points on the line.

[@realitant]

Honestly I think the bigger issue with the FTV dryad arbor is that it looks so much like a basic forest that if someone put it down, said "play a land" and tapped it for mana in the same turn, I wouldnt think twice about it.

[@nharviala]

I say bluff away. Yugioh has a similar feature, where all you need to do is start counting summons, and that immediately changes a combo player's turn. If you haven't planned for the chance of the card getting you, you haven't planned enough.

[@Omnicrom]

Counting like you have a Nibiru is an incredible play in some matchups.

[@nharviala]

@@Omnicrom Exactly. Especially when they hesitantly say "Ending main phase...?" And you just smile and put down your hand. You never had the Rock.

[@Nit0WasTaken]

Whenever I play EDH with my friends and I happen to play a blue deck, I always make sure that when I have mana open, I put a pair of islands separately from the other untapped lands. 9/10 times somebody will point out that I have mana for a counterspell. And I always agree, I have mana for a potential counterspell. It is potential because most of the time I don't have one in hand. But I always have a good laugh with my friends after the game because "I hardcore bluffed and baited" at least one of them.

[@FLEXJR69]

So, as an interesting note. I actually grew up playing poker. I started playing magic after about 10 years of poker. And something that wasn't a bluff from poker but a stim actually became a bluff i use in magic. So i only play texas Hold'em. And i would flick my cards as a stim. Whenever a new card was played, I'd always stop and hold one of my cards. As I started playing magic, this stim carried over. And I'll admit i play dimir a lot, so I'll sometimes have counterspells. And i started noticing that people while making plays would scan my mana and flick their eyes to me holding a single card after having rifled through them. And if i had mana open, wouldn't play cards or would only activate certain abilities. Once i made the connection, i started doing it purposely and would even sometimes make half plays, so I'd actually have mana for counters or responses. If they fell for the bluff, tho, I'd play the second half of big plays and pop off.

[@kylemitchell2052]

The last example of Luis being awesome, Dezani was already in his own head, and not playing around the settle that he didn't consider. He even grabbed a token assuming that luis was going to block with that token.

[@alexandredesbiens-brassard9109]

"I devoted my life to Magic. It's very disappointing to see one of my peers sell out for so little" Lol at the self-importance of that dude. Magic is a lootbox-based card game made by a corporation for profit, and the pro scene is nothing but a massive marketing endeavor for that corporation. "Selling out" is baked into the game. Anyone playing at pro level who doesn't realize that need to open their eyes.

[@SuperNerd9695]

One time a LONG time ago when Battle for Zendikar was in standard. I had a Captain Claws equiped to a creature, (I think a white ally) and it was taped down by some sort of blue enchantment, but I didn't know you could equip an equipment from a creature it is already equipped on, to another creature. I didn't think I would have won if I knew I could do that, but I was still salty about it anyway.

[@maximiliangunther9597]

At my first modern event, I had an opponent with a mountain playmat, and a deck labelled burn. I didn't even consider that anyone would bluff like that, kept a hand with some lifegain and absolutely trashed him in two games because he was on affinity instead. I would have actually just thrown the game if it was control or eggs or something

[@ryancarter3468]

In regards to the Pen trick, LSVs token bluff and having tokens in your deckbox unrelated to the deck you're playing: The flipside of this is people trying to gain an advantage by picking up indirectly or directly on information that should be hidden and unknown to them. They seem to be fine to do that but not when it backfires. If you don't want to be "tricked" don't try and gain an underhanded advantage xD The extreme of this is shuffling your opponents deck in a way that reveals information to you (checking out the bottom card or dropping a card by "accident") which is actively cheating.

[@BrazilianCitizan]

wasn't it LSV who once sided out his Tendril of Agony when playing storm because people were conceding before he got to it and he noticed he didn't actually need it in the deck? xD

[@claytonnewlon3747]

He did do this, but it was a mistake, not an intentional decision. Apparently he was a sideboard card short, forgot what it was supposed to be, and accidentally registered a Storm deck with no Tendrils.

[@BrazilianCitizan]

@@claytonnewlon3747 absolute legend

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

@@claytonnewlon3747 oh man, that's a bummer. I always thought he was pulling a Mike Long. Not "I'mma cheat because it's funny" Mike Long, more like "let's see if they make me play out my ProsBloom combo" Mike Long.

[@FoxyBard]

I don't know if it's a scandal, but I'll always remember the game loss assign at... I don't even remember if this was Pro Tour, a GP, or whatever, but someone attacked with a Hazoret who was not a legal attacker and lost the game for it.

[@vaderwashere365]

Thanks for the video! Late, but random thoughts on some of the scandals from someone who has played MTG since 1994, but has a lot more in my life than just MTG. - Arbor rule was needed. So many man lands, so many cards that permanently become creatures/lands... it is just logical and good game design to have separated zones. - Intentional draw is a sad part of MTG that isn't practiced in most games or sports. It is anti-competition and usually seen as poor sportsmanship - except for in MTG. By intentionally drawing, you are often knocking someone out that played all of their games, which is pretty weak. Dual loss or forfeits/drops should be options, but not intentional draws. - Tarmogoyf/Rare picking: I am okay with this, as you are handicapping yourself (and because he helped a charity). It isn't pure good competition, but they wouldn't let you keep the cards if you weren't supposed to pick the valuable cards when you see them - this has been a part of MTG since draft started. To get around this, you draft and then let the winner pick from all the cards 1st to keep one, followed by 2nd picking a card, 3rd then picks, and so on. For some reason, only casual drafts do this much more competitive draft. Drafts are different if you don't automatically keep the cards you are picking and just focusing on building your deck. It is a super easy fix that MTG players do not want to happen, because everyone wants to pick and keep expensive cards lol (especially in Baldur's Gate where there are very few cards with a high value). - Bluffing is totally fine, it is a part of almost every card game and board game. I agree, there are some blatant times where it is a dick move and I wouldn't do it (most people take MTG too seriously and I got better things in my life), but it is part of nearly every game out there. Could you imagine if a 14 year old pitcher told the 14 year old hitter that a curve was coming, or a fastball, or a changeup every time lol. How about a 10 year old telling the defender the pump fake is coming, or which direction they will go after a crossover lol. Again, almost every sport and game use bluffing, faking, misdirection, etc. from when people are little kids... but maybe the average MTG player doesn't play games with others? Or are MTG players just not as emotionally developed as others and feel attacked by a standard game strategy? Hard for me to know because I play MTG and many other games and sports.

[@poorsod]

The expression on LSV's face after he drops the Settle!

[@josephinelilith3224]

As a YGO player who has never once played MTG, I find Magic's attitudes kind of interesting regarding the pen trick and similar bluffs - we recently had a very prominent player in competitive YGO, Andres Torres, who was just given a year's suspension for openly, on camera, admitting that he intentionally tried to mislead his opponents about the kind of deck he played and recommended the strategy to others (he was playing a Despia deck and used accessories related to the Swordsoul deck, openly saying he did it to try to trick people into thinking he was playing Swordsoul.)

[@Lovuschka]

There's a famous chess game where one of the players misled his opponent by making a move on the queenside. After his opponent made the mistake of also going for the queenside, the devastating attack on the kingside started out of the blue...

[@robertbilodeau6073]

Loving this series Vince! I got flashbacks of the Pithing needle bluff in that last half! As far as I care; the Pen Trick only works on people who were looking for signals you are sending them: It's bait that only a shark would bite.

[@chargingbadger_]

Pk merely mentioning GPs reminding me what mtg was like in 2015-2016 :((( the good ole days.

[@wurdofwizdumb1928]

Back when people traded for mtg cards . Commander was actually fun and not a commercial product that became too expensive. Back when GP didn’t price gouge the crap out of you.

[@chargingbadger_]

@@wurdofwizdumb1928 don’t forget how standard was actually fun and could be played in person. Wild times.

[@Terry.M.I.]

The pen trick is annoying but it's a play on things we do that could be considered the same level when I play arena or hearthstone when someone hovers my cards I know they are reading it and making decisions to remove it or something and start formulating plans without that card but what if my opponent just doesn't know what it does and has no plan to remove now I have to divert to thinking with that creature again and so on

[@Ambushw23]

I played at a shop where they didn’t allow textless cards and certain alt art to played, as it wasn’t fair to newer players and made up a lot of confusion especially when people playing textless cards didnt know the correct text of the card so they could gain advantage of people. My friend who was pretty new to magic only playing for 8-10 months I let borrow a modern deck of mine I gave him merfolk, he was up against r/w burn and the guy was playing with a bunch of textless cards like lightning helix, lightning bolt, and pyroclasm he took advantage of him being new and would play pyroclasm and said it did 2 damage to all opponents creatures and opponent, he also didn’t un side board from his last game as he “forgot” and he knew the deck he was playing before the match started and kept pyroclasm in well cause it’s good against fish. The cheater wins game 1 I won on 2 quick games playing tron, I start watching him, he casts pyroclasm and he doesn’t kill his goblin guide and something else with 2 toughness I forgot what it was, so I go you forgot your goblin guide and card x he goes ops yeah and my friend goes wait what? I look at him like why what’s wrong he said last game that it does 2 damage to all opponents creatures and opponent I’m like what? I call the judge he’s done this exact thing before the gave him a match loss and kicked him out of the tournament and banned him from store as it wasn’t a first offense, after that they said before the next week’s tournament no textless promos or non English card unless you can provide a English version with text or a picture of on on request of the opponent so they and a judge can confirm if needed, as it makes it too easy to cheat. I completely agreed

[@Patashu]

when he picked up and stared at the Dryad Arbor I felt that

[@thechaosbloom]

the stuff at 21:06 reminds me of a recent episode of the Eternal Glory Podcast where they talk about deducing what deck your opponent is on, if you haven’t checked out that podcast you definitely should!

[@maskofthedragon]

4:18 Even with no audio and mostly only seeing his hands you can feel that WTF reaction

[@yugiohjedi442]

About the buff part, I was playing casually with a friend. I was playing his deck because I didn't have a deck and he just wanted to play a bit. It was mono red vs something else. He was at 6 and I was at like 12 but he was ahead by so much. I had an antagonize and a 2/2 on board. It was my turn and I looked at my hand and sighed, "I got nothing, I think you got this." I swing anyway just as a one last punch. He says no blocks and I immediately slam down the antagonize. He looks at the card and looks at me, "You got me that was pretty good." This was a casual event and nothing was at stake.

[@rjphilla]

Great Video. Really like these takes. Heading to Denver for TCG Con with my kiddos (17&20) to play in the Modern event this weekend for Father's day. Gunna be awesome.

[@bennettstokes195]

Settle the wreckage was… interesting to me but I remember being frustrated that nothing other than blue had a answer to it. Feels a bit rough

[@Morte_n]

Still missing some of the big players like for example how people went WILD and MAD after it was announced that damage won't go over the stack anymore. I personally knew of at least 5-7 people who quit MTG over this. Or how Tarmogoyf was such a hugh impact on the game, even more than Planeswalker if I'm honest. Before you'd play Spiritmonger as a finisher in The Rock in Legacy but it died out. Tarmo was like a real exctintion event for creatures.

[@bradleyemery]

As a bit of pedantry, you can absolutely organize your Dryad Arbor in with your lands at FNM, and other Regular REL events. The change to the Magic Tournament Rules only affects Competitive and Professional REL. I don't advise it, because it can lead to misplays on both sides, and if you're perceived to be doing it to trick your opponent, you're not exactly doing yourself any social favors, but you can.

[@toataile6450]

I don't bluff in games of magic outside of commander. Because of the social aspect of commander and constant banter about what people may or may not have in their hands, I'll sometimes bluff removal or a sweeper. In competitive games however, I've never utilized bluffing, I don't need to considering my hand is already secret information, and playing my interaction only when I need it keeps it that way.

[@seanflanagan9675]

This is so weird, i was looking up the "pen trick" video with LSV but disnt get around to finishing it because I was too tired. I wake up and find a pleasant video that has it right there with commentary from a cool Brit.

[@edni5013]

well the thing about goyf gate is ,maynard even thought considered a pro player at the time, was not sponsored by anyone but himself. meaning all those high and mighty pro players wich got there traveling fees covered by ther sponsors(i asume) could "play to win" while he had to cover finanzes himself and in that context taking a card that would cover a portion of his cost instead of picking a card wich would have made his deck like what 3% better would be not wise to say the most. well those are my two cents sry for the wall of text and probabbly horrible grammar, if im complete wrong well who gives ^^ ciao 4 now

[@WhackedMaki2]

I've done similar things to the performative bluff in other games. Legend of the Five Rings is a game where your Clan is open knowledge from setup of the game. I was playing the Crab clan, who are colorized by deep blue. My playmat featured a character of the Scorpion clan, who are red, and I was using red sleeves. My clan identity was openly presented, but I had people who did improper mulligans against me, assuming I was Scorpion. At no point did I claim to be Scorpion, and I was pretty well known in the community at large as a Crab player.

[@cyriltournier5784]

Reminds me of the Borborygmos / Pithing Needle controversy

[@pluckstrummer]

“Clever” players cheat themselves when they trust reading tells over playing the odds and examining the board state.

[@harveywatson3803]

Feels like you've really come I to your stride in the last year or so, I feel your presence on Twitter is criminally underrated, you are by far my favourite mtg tweeter, and your videos give such great insight not only into the intricacies if gameplay, but of the culture of this game which is never covered enough. Thanks for everything and keep it up my man. Love

[@Dreadnaught1985]

I am the infect guy in my local meta. Having played it for the last 3 years as my main deck. It was a blow out when I showed up with my regular deckbox sleeves and had switched to dredge. I knew for a fact that at least 2 of my matches the game 1 Mulligan's of my opponents were ant-infect hands with spot removal and/or discard. This meant I won most of my game 1 matches, and just needed to win the coin toss of "who hits their sideboard card" in 1 out of the 2 remaining games. It was a really good day.

[@CRIMS0N_KING]

After you mentioned wearing all red and playing control and then cutting to Luis playing Boros while wearing a Dimir hoodie was possibly unintentional but brilliant

[@kiwivogel]

I have a sliver EDH deck in parrot sleeves with morophon as commander. "Yeah it's bird tribal" :')

[@jamsmadison3495]

I cracked a sodie pop RIGHT as he said now crack a sodie pop. The can opening sound effect was matched with me opening my can. How does PleasantKenobi always have the soul read.

[@auwest1357]

In talking about the “pen trick”, particularly your example of an Infect token in your deckbox when you’re not playing Infect, a YGO “pro” player, who won the YCS (our version of a GP) this happened at, took a 1 year ban for having a token card on his Side Deck cards that he had no way of generating for the purpose of misleading opponents about the deck he was playing. The rules committee didn’t take issue with him having the token itself, but they did rule that it was against the rules to intentionally mislead your opponent in that manner, and particularly took issue with him encouraging others to do the same in his deck profile.

[@andrewbmore1310]

@PleasantKenobi Just out of curiosity, do they monitor the TO's that open and stamp the cards before the matches? In regards to Toyfgate, Not to sound like Dale Gribble from "King of the Hill", but you ever wonder if they would do that just for the publicity? Maybe they didn't target anyone as the sure winner, but it seems hilariously coincidental it happened to Pascal Maynard, lol. Just a crazy thought like i said, just something funny to think about.

[@Aigis31]

I'm so glad that a similar example to the "having an infect token in your deck box" example got a player banned in Yu-Gi-Oh. One of the rare Konami Ws- banning a player for unsporting conduct. (It was used for the same reasons there, having a card clearly visible in their deck box that was only there to mislead the opponent into playing a certain way. Scummy as hell.)

[@anonymoose2474]

DQing someone for having a token in their deck box is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

[@ecpracticesquad4674]

Without hearing what LSV might have been saying to his opponent it might be as simple as helping his opponent do the possible “combat math”. That doesn’t seem sketchy to me because it didn’t look like it impacted the decision to all out attack. It didn’t seem like the opponent had the read on Settle anyway.

[@MtendoTheSkunk]

I often wear a magic tshirt when going to play a magic event, usually limited, and I have a lot of them that prominently displays a single mana symbol and I've had people think that since I had a Black Mana symbol on my shirt that I'd be going to play Black and instead I draft the best cards that I open and it sometimes be a Green/White deck. So I laughed when you mentioned the all red outfit and be playing blue instead xD

[@Matazuma]

YOU HAVE A KZbin CHANNEL!?!?!

[@2starkiller]

Right?!? I thought Disney tried to just pull a years long viral marketing campaign for their newest scifi show, but it was actually the Vince of Dies to removal fame!

[@adamschorsch2358]

Love that Settle bluff - it's no different than someone fiddling with two untapped Islands back in the old days, making a big show of deciding whether to 'let' their opponent resolve a spell while they don't even have a counterspell in their hand. LSV held the token to infer it would be relevant, his opponent took that and used it as a cue to visualize the blocks he thought LSV would make happen, then LSV did what LSV does. **head shot**

[@greyaye8565]

I absolutely love the psychological stuff. I only play casual, and I love it when people mess with me. Maybe it's because my friends and I are always messing with each other, so there's a lot of bluffing about things all the time. Then when we reveal it, we often yell "HAHA! I lied! You fool!" Sometimes we'll just leave up double blue mana after mentioning earlier in the game that we only run one counterspell. Sometimes it's a bluff, sometimes it's not...respect the hustle when it's a bluff, respect it more when I call it and get punished.

[@kingdjoser]

I vaguely remember some pro in a tournament sideboarding out there actual win con card from their deck to grab four copies of a card that helped them in the matchup. Then when he played his win con tutor the opponent scooped as he pretended to search his library for a card he knew wasn't in there.

[@PleasantKenobi]

Talked about something similar in the "biggest cheaters" video.

[@alargeshark]

I had a somewhat similar experience to maynard but not close to the same stakes. Opened a stamped amonkhet doomsday day 2 of a gp draft. I was live for top 8 but decided to take the souvenir.

[@Przemko27Z]

This is a very casual-perspective take, but I'd say bluffing should be kept to the game state. If you leave open mana for a counterspell you do not have or avoid playing the last card in your hand to keep it hidden information, that's fine. But things like the pen trick or similar forms of out-of-the-game misdirection are just dick moves and I'd dare say at the least getting pretty close to unsportsmanlike.

[@Feril1]

The thing about Pascal was the people that were ragging on him were friends and just giving a friend hard time for laughs in good spirit.

[@PleasantKenobi]

That doesn't explain why people were issuing apologies for over reactions.

[@SittonSpin]

The LSV bluff was insane

[@saphired02]

I remember the goyfgate. I saw it live. I also remember some people playing pack wars at the GP and they agreed that they would destroy any goyf they opened, And they destroyed a foil goyf.

[@jaredmanwell442]

My favorite bluff is my "mono green" edh deck, which in actuality is mono red goblins helmed by Krenko(the good one)

[@elijahpatterson6802]

I guess Controversy is another word we pronounce differently in America. Cool beans

[@Brawler_1337]

One thing about Goyfgate: I’m positive the Goyf didn’t actually sell for $15k. From what I remember of the scandal, those obscenely high bids were actually fake bids-bids someone would place but not actually intend to pay. People were doing it to bump up the price because it was _the_ Goyf that instigated the scandal, alongside just plain trolling. IIRC, Maynard had to re-auction the Goyf, but this time as a silent auction, and it ended up selling for $700. I don’t recall if I have a source for this. I’ll have to dig back to when I last talked about this to see if I do. It’s just hard to sift through all the articles since so many of them reference the $15k figure, partly because of shock value and partly because that’s when Goyfgate was at its peak on social media. Edit: Got a source on the Reddit thread citing Pascal’s Twitter post regarding the fake bids: www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3cgkj1/new_goyfgate_auction/ Still no source on the final auction price. That’s just my personal recollection.

[@DiabloTommaso]

That arbor art is cool, as you said gives the idea of a living forest. The huge issue i have with it is his foiling. And they cuold have done better with the creature aspect of it. The Tarmo shitshow always made me smile. As I said before it just goes to show how bad prices are if you get tempeted by that

[@DoubleBeast]

Lol wtf Goyfgate. Those "pros" were just fucking salty that Pascal got what is basically a one-of-a-kind prize card but they didn't.

[@Sevifor]

The only way to avoid "Goyfgate*" is to make all the drafts "phantom" (nobody keeps the cards). Until then, you will always have people doing the cost-benefit analysis of "will this one pick truly raise my chances of winning the top prize sufficiently enough to be worth an equivalent dollar value?" *what a terrible naming convention adding "gate" to the end of everything is

[@Feril1]

It's based on the watergate scandal with nixon.

[@jeremiahbachmann3901]

The whole point of Draft is to keep the cards after the games. If you think otherwise, then you should have been giving away all of your Draft cards over the years.

[@SmuggyOcelot]

ah yes, great. How would you like to give your cards away during a draft, hmm? What’s the point in winning if you don’t get to take home that sweet mythic you pulled? Your idea, I’m sorry, is incredibly silly and illogical

[@Sevifor]

@@jeremiahbachmann3901 People do this all the time on the digital clients, which is where the term "Phantom Draft" comes from. I'm not suggesting that every draft become like this, but for high-level tournament play, it would arguably be a net positive because it removes considerations of financial solvency. In the absence of having to chase money cards, players can focus solely on skillfully drafting whatever gives them the best deck. A player feeling like they have to pick a card that they will never play in their draft deck is not ideal.

[@Sevifor]

@@SmuggyOcelot You'd be shocked at the number of players who will actually participate in a draft and then immediately give all their cards away at the end of it to newer players because they're not interested in Constructed. Phantom draft events are incredibly popular on MTGO, and "Cube" is a thriving format that is, in essence, a draft where people don't keep their picks. Believe it or not, some people like Draft as an actual game/format independent of financial gain. Removing the temptation of "rare drafting" an expensive card allows players to pick less expensive cards that are better for their deck, which arguably leads to a better draft experience. I'm not suggesting that every draft be like this, but at high tournament-level play, it has a certain appeal. Moreso than in other environments, those tournament drafts are focused on building the best deck possible, and having to weigh a cost-benefit analysis of taking a card purely for its monetary value detracts from the goal of simply building the best possible deck.

[@scipioTCG]

The borborygmos enraged deserves a honorable mention

[@WillySnake01]

The problem with the "Token Pen Trick" in this case is that it wasn't just a bluff, like say "oh, I have my 3 mana open and I'm maybe touching my flipped Legion's Landing". He LITERALLY used an outside element from the actual boardstate, in this case the Vampire Token, to bluff. You could say he purposedly looked and brought it close to his creatures ot signal it. It was his opponents fault too to fall for the trick and also use that same element to encourage confusion. Yeah, it's allowed, but the behaviour is borderline close to being actual cheating. I've always had problems with the game for allowing this kind of conducts, because as the video says, the rulings don't impede the sharks to use them on every single game they play, regardless of competitive level. I remember once when me and some friends were playing 2013-ish Modern on a LGS, it wasn't even a FNM or a league or anything, it was just the day Modern was played on the store, and there was this player who was playing with a friend, I think my friend was playing Naya Zoo and my opponent was Jund. My friend used a Path to Exile on an opponent's creature, probably a Tarmogoyf, and the opponent responds by cracking a Fetchland but REALLY TOOK HIS TIME to find the land, any number I say might be exaggerated but it could've easily been close to a full minute. After the land entered the battelfield, the opponent said something like "ok, your go", his intention being that after the time lapse my friend would've forgot the Path was on the stack. Luckily my friend was paying attention and did not.

[@345tom]

For me, I'm not a big fan of stuff like "the pen trick" or like misrepresenting your play. I get what PK is saying about it being a part of other card games like Poker, but I play Magic to play Magic, to play with the cards and the mechanics of it. Poker is ostensibly about the bluff and playing people- that's the game, and that's what you're signing up for. I don't necessarily want that out of Magic, the same way I don't want to think of complex interplay when I'm playing poker or Mafia or whatever. I'm surprised though there's not more stories of this with like double faced cards, where you keep a placeholder in your deck, and then go to read a double faced card, implying you have it in hand when in fact you don't. Or for instance foreign language cards, where you have to be able to provide a translation to your opponent, and keeping that translation visible to the side.

[@dejinn7765]

At a limited GP (Daytona) LSV did the "pen trick" to me to win the match, when I was in contention for Day 2. I was about 18 at the time, and haven't seen the trick before. Game 3 started going badly for him, and I had a Fallowsage he had allowed to connect once or twice already. If I remember right, he let it cause he had seen a pump spell I had in a previous game. But then did that pen trick when he drew his own combat trick. It was so long ago I'm a bit iffy on the exact details. What I do recall for sure is that I lost Fallowsage, due only to this pen trick. And that despite his far superior play skills, I likely would have fun if it wasn't for losing Fallowsage to that trick (my pool was absolutely insane. Tons of common+uncommon removal. A Planeswalker, Mirror Entity, and 2 other bombs. And I got a fantastic draw against LSV. So luck was making my wins possible, against far better players) I was young so thought it was really scummy at the time, but I realized later that this was a GP and one of the last rounds of day 1, so there's nothing wrong with using every legal trick you can. But it is interesting to think about can win games in table top. Like the fact that if the game was online, it would have gone every differently. MTG is cool like that.

[@notcaboose4415]

don't lie, you wouldn't be able to resist the shiny green wizard sqaure

[@asaffin1]

I think mind games are a wonderful aspect of the game, but there is a line beyond which is unsportsmanlike conduct, and some of the mental tricks you can pull get pretty close to that line. I think it's just important to consider the situation, consider your opponent and their ability to play on that same level (like you said, using tricks to shark noobs is not cool), and just use good judgement and try to be the player you'd enjoy playing against. My brother in law and I like to trick each other in EDH games all the time, and it's a lot of fun to puzzle each other out like that.

[@toromisher]

The goyfgate thing was similair to the issue my lgs group had for the most recent baldurs gate draft prerelease. None of us gave a shit about winning a btec game of drafted commander when we were going to just put all the cards we pulled into our decks that we would be playing for real for the rest of the weekend. So we had a weird kinda shared understanding that we would all pick one card we wanted to actually play and one we actually wanted to keep each rotation. Just so we didn't have people literally just taking all the expensive cards and scooping.

[@ryeox-brown5405]

i really appreciate your emphasis on respecting people vs. respecting a game // you're a really good presence in the community, thank you 🖤

[@ClubbingSealCub]

You took this video in a direction I did not expect and that made it even better, good job mate

[@FullFatMayo1]

For the Goyfgate thing I don't really understand why, particularly at the top 8, it isn't a phantom draft. I 100% would have taken the Goyf, but if (by some major miracle) I ended up in that scenario, I wouldn't want to have to make that choice.

[@JuanWonOne]

I still play lands up front. And you're right i am a but of a weirdo.

[@Morphling92]

Settle the wreckage is simple - he initially grabbed an item to bring into the game without stating his intent. Bluffing is great - you should bluff and follow all rules. This, if not outright illegal (unsure of pro rules and grabbing items from outside the game to make it seem like it’s going into play) is so close to the line you should avoid it. The fact it’s a token card too makes it worse - you shouldn’t be grabbing or moving cards near the board state unless you’ve declared your intent on why you’re doing it. It leads to 5 copies of a card, sudden extra lands on the field that can’t logically add up, and so on. Super scummy play.

[@magusofthebargain]

Despite being similar to "the pen trick" the token generation trick that Luis Scott-Vargas used against Jeremy Dezani was an interesting bluff and well played using the hint that he had an onboard action he could take, but chose instead to cast a spell from his hand. Well played Luis Scott-Vargas!!

[@Bluecho4]

While the change to competitive rules regarding creatures being up front is probably for the best, I lament the flavor loss of Dryad Arbor. The whole point of Dryad Arbor is it can be mistaken for a land, while having the ability to attack and block like a creature. From a certain point of view, if the opponent gets caught by a creature they didn't know was there because they mistook it for a mere Forest, that's the card working as intended.

[@greatbrandini3967]

Not only that, I think that version of Dryad is beautiful. I was really disappointed that the older art was the version that got reprinted

[@jamarclark7433]

I really enjoy your storytelling videos. I usually don't like these kinds of videos, but you just make them entertaining

[@kyleellis1825]

Huh... My land go below my graveyard. Artifacts that aren't creatures and enchantments go on above the land/beside the deck graveyard on the left. Creatures get the right side of the deck/graveyard. Dryad Arbor gets slid over so it's usually the only land on the creature side but it's still at the bottom.

[@ArkAngel_45]

On the Pen Bluff thing, in a Limited game had an opponent that counted out and tapped like 10 lands to cast a 1 cmc card because he was trying to draw out my counter spell I was representing and I fell for it. It sucked in the moment but it was absolutely big brained and I don't blame him for doing it.

[@Kryptnyt]

I think a clever next-level bluff pulled off in just the right way can be one of the best demonstrations of respect and understanding for your opponent; "You're a human being, and you're smart, and I think you're going to act *this* way, so instead I'll do *that* thing." You never see the situations where someone sets up a perfect bluff only for the opponent to ignore it because they were distracted by something or too in the zone.

[@Hundo_Mo]

The dryad thing seems to be an issue of not thoroughly checking the board state. Not sure what calling the judge would have accomplished