Commonly Misplayed Cards (Judge!) | Commander Clash Podcast 160

[@prootybaby5191]

Vetega is my favorite X-Men character, hope he makes it into the Marvel MTG set ❤

[@dpv007]

His cameo in Deadpool & Wolverine was epic! Can't wait for Vetega's solo film.

[@KVGKQuake]

​@@dpv007dude. Spoilers

[@dalexa]

@@KVGKQuake Vetega never spoils, he's well conditioned.

[@kandjar]

Dark Vader is a much better x-men especially when he confronted sponge bob in that epic DC X-Men movie

[@nickfout3757]

I heard he joined the justice league the most powerful marvel team.

[@spogo1]

I appreciate that Phil pushes through the lag-hesitation when interrupting and you guys yield to him more, that makes him a more active participant

[@arghanothername]

Doubly important for non-native speakers, as well. There tends to be a mental lag as you structure your thoughts into a second language that can make jumping into a conversation in another language. The crew are really good about allowing for that and bring Phil in.

[@simoncss1]

I had some recall that much earlier on, Phil did often get drowned out. His lower pitched voice sure didn’t help. But probably crew is doin much better now

[@Crunchatize_Me_Senpai]

Now we just need Crim to join in a little more

[@networkzanimex]

Zedruu actually works the opposite of what Tomer said, it will always trigger on each of your upkeeps (X can be 0) and you can respond to the trigger to donate permanents. Cards like Revel in Riches, on the other hand, will only trigger when their condition is met. The key difference is that Revel's trigger has an 'if' statement and Zedruu's doesn't. To learn more about the difference, look up "intervening if clause" and triggered abilities.

[@RasmusVJS]

I was curious about that when he said it, since I myself had read those rules recently, but wasn't certain myself.

[@kandjar]

Indeed I was going to reply to Tomer’s comment too…

[@Elyeras]

The irony of misplaying the explanation in the misplay explanation episode

[@johngompers7454]

Came here to say exactly this - thanks :-)

[@JR-xv6mv]

Came here to say this. Funny that Tomer does not know how to play his oldest commander :P

[@raedien]

From OppA's notes on Gatherer: If more than one player controls an Opposition Agent, and another player searches their library, the controller of the Opposition Agent that most recently entered the battlefield controls that player during the search. Because the last ability of each Opposition Agent is trying to exile the card and give permission to play it, the owner of the exiled card chooses which effect wins. However, that owner will be under another player's control, so that player controlling that owner actually makes the decision. In other words, the player who controls the Opposition Agent whose effect applies (and thus controls the opponent) can choose to give themselves all the play permissions unless they're feeling very generous.

[@kennethpolsky8369]

Came here to say just this!

[@GlaceonBM]

zedruu does in fact trigger every upkeep. what you have to look out for is that intervening "if" clause - if it says "at , if X condition, then Y", X condition must be true both for the ability to go on the stack _and_ for it to resolve. zedruu doesn't have this, he just counts them at upkeep, even if the count is 0 he will still trigger

[@mattdillon8958]

Crim just gaslit the whole pod into saying recon-ah-saunce

[@Mecal00]

It was driving me crazy lol

[@mattdillon8958]

I had to look it up to make sure I wasn’t going insane

[@RyanEglitis]

I can't believe how many of them just followed along. Re-con-uh-sense people!

[@wardnabob]

Somehow it is worse than Seth pronouncing Vegeta

[@andyspendlove1019]

Recon ahhh saunce

[@PALIGames]

Seth is like that dad that pronounces pokemon as Pokemans 😂

[@crawdaddy1234]

I play competitive Pokémon and still say “Pokeymans.” 😂

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

​​@crawdaddy2004 you're wrong and you should feel bad. Also, what tier?

[@CenJohan]

He literally calls lands “manas”

[@lelandwhitehead56]

@@CenJohandoes that make crime lands Pokey-Manas?

[@thesamuraiman]

@@PALIGames Pogeymanz

[@CodenameFuyuki]

Zedru ironically actually DOES work the way you want it to. It puts a trigger to draw 0 cards and gain 0 life on the stack that is modular (aka it can change before it resolves), so you actually CAN do that with zedru. You are correct about most of the other ones though. Most of those are contidional triggers, which means the thing its looking for must be there for the trigger to even go on to the stack.

[@huckstej]

"Commonly misplayed card" episode where a card is explained incorrectly only to add more uncertainty and confusion. Noice.

[@Jokerspack]

Oh wow, okay that is good to know. But yeah it wouldn't be a misplay video without a misplay explanation :)

[@carlossantiago2659]

I was looking for this comment as soon as I read the card

[@zotha]

Anyone who played control in Amonkhet standard will now this from The Scarab God because it is the same interaction.

[@dudacalvin]

But will not draw even you try to respond the trigger, right?

[@kaszael]

Tomer, I'm pretty sure you're wrong on Zedruu's trigger. It has no intervening "if" clause. The most simple way to look at it is that when your trigger is worded as such: "[trigger word], IF [condition], [effect]", the trigger doesn't go on the stack if the condition isn't met (like the Revel in Riches example). Some are worded "[trigger word], [effect] if [condition] is met", those would go on the stack and check if the effect takes place upon resolution (see Abzan Beastmaster for an example). Zedruu is neither, there is no "if" in her wording, and should trigger at each of your upkeeps, determining the value of X upon resolution.

[@ryantomczak2248]

Another thing about commander damage that people get wrong is if they have an effect that says their life total can’t change, like Platinum Emperion. Commander damage is still tracked even though your life total has not changed.

[@seandun7083]

Yes. Infect, lifelink, and combat damage triggers still happen too.

[@ryantomczak2248]

@@seandun7083 Correct

[@jonlamoreaux2228]

This would be much easier to track if commanders dealt combat damage to players with some sort of counter like poison

[@alexandermeyer7258]

Been playing for 12 years, and I still always forget when you copy modal spells, the copies have to choose the same modes. Great episode fellas!

[@nickel_n_dime719]

3:08 so Seth definitely just has Dyslexia right? Either that or this is the greatest running joke ever pulled lmao

[@Alkhemia8]

he says stuff wrong because it makes people comment it a pretty common thing for youtubers to do

[@thesamuraiman]

​@@Alkhemia8He does it so well, it's fair to question if it's genuine though.😂

[@EmbeJuicemazzopazzo]

some people just never cared about dragonball

[@jekanyika]

@@thesamuraiman A lot of time it is unintentional, but he also does it on purpose sometimes.

[@SmashCentralOfficial]

After the Vegeta thing I'm 100% convinced he's dyslexic.

[@Waste_MTG]

"Vuhtayguh" - Seth with a straight face

[@imaginarymatter]

As always Richard is wrong and... ... oh, he isn't here. I guess we aren't putting any money in the Farewell jar.

[@brandonansted1612]

"I sensed a disturbance in the Force as if multiple childhoods creamed out in terror and were silenced," as Seth butchers Vegeta's name.

[@burningpapersun1]

Creaming out in terror is a sentence I never thought I'd hear

[@brandonansted1612]

@@burningpapersun1 stupid Auto correct

[@RyanEglitis]

@@brandonansted1612 i love that quote from star trek

[@Crunchatize_Me_Senpai]

@@burningpapersun1I got so scared I came!

[@furak]

17:44 Havengul mystery has black mana symbol on it, hence black mana identity (still a colorless land)

[@SalamiSnake]

Came to the comments for this

[@zyronblade]

There was a lot of talk about combat this episode. one thing that I usually see misplayed is damage doubling/tripling effects with trample/splitting damage. The rules state that you must assign lethal damage to creatures before moving to the next thing, but this damage is assigned BEFORE the replacement effects are considered. for example, Let's say you have furnace of rath out doubling damage and I block a 3/3 with a 2/2 and a 2/3. You have to assign damage either as 2-1 or 0-3 when ordering blockers. Then replacement effects are considered, so even though you are dealing 6 total damage, you can't actually kill both creatures.

[@T_Peazy]

31:46 I think zedruu works the way you want it to Tomer. What you're talking about is the "intervening if" clause, but zedruu doesn't have that like Revel in Riches does or Barren Glory. I can't find any ruling that says zedruu works that way.

[@ethanglaeser9239]

Two Opposition Agents is not a choice, rather it is a timestamp issue. The latest Opposition Agent to enter the battlefield is the one who controls the player, and as they are controlling the player, they get to decide who's exile effect is the relevant one.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Yup a lot of people forget that part of magic. Last thing to enter has priority in those cases

[@lazarus845]

There's actually a much weird rules interaction with Opposition Agent. Since two things happen during a search while an Opposition Agent is in play, each one is handled separately. The first is that the owner of the Opposition Agent controls the searching player's actions while they are searching. This one does use timestamps. The other ability, the one that exiles a card and allows Opposition Agent's controller to cast the card, is a replacement effect, so the two replacement effects would apply. It's just that it doesn't usually matter, because the controller of the most recently timestamped Opposition Agent is controlling the actions of the player, this includes which replacement effect to apply. So they will almost always choose to have their own Agent's effect apply. But it is technically possible for the most recently timestamped Agent's controller to take control of the searching player, find a card, and then exile it face down for the other Agent's controller.

[@ethanglaeser9239]

@@lazarus845 Yep, I just gave the abridged version of this explanation.

[@jaredwonnacott9732]

However, of both Opposition Agents were to enter simultaneously (like off a Living Death or something), then, the person searching would chose, right?

[@ethanglaeser9239]

@@jaredwonnacott9732 I am not positive, but I would've guessed that they are "timestamped" in player turn order, prioritizing the latter player's effect.

[@AxillaryPower2]

40:00 Tomer is a bit off here. In the case where there are 3 players, say players A, B, and C, where player A goads a creature(s) of player B's, and player C has a ghostly prison, player B has the option to pay the cost(s) to attack player C; there are no cards that force opponents to pay optional costs. However, if player B *does not pay*, then the goaded creatures must attack player A. Goad imposes two conditions: first the creature MUST ATTACK if able, and second, MUST ATTACK ANOTHET OPPONENT if able. By not paying for ghostly prison, the crestures are unable to attack player C, but they still must attack.

[@JoshBeatty6]

Just about to comment the same thing

[@RasmusVJS]

Didn't they include in the discussion that the Prison player was the only available target?

[@Tepig027]

I believe that's why goad doesn't work in 1v1. It forces the creature to attack, but since there is only 1 opponent, it has to attack them. Or am I wrong?

[@RasmusVJS]

@@Tepig027 Goad does work in 1v1, in the sense that it forces the creature to attack. But since it only forces attacking another player *if able* , and that obviously isn't possible in 1v1, it doesn't prevent you from being attacked.

[@mikemoyer8162]

One of my favorite things with all the combat steps that my playgroup definitely got into arguments about is with first strike and ninjitsu. If the creature is unblocked, you can have the first strike damage happen, then ninjitsu in and then the regular damage will then happen, effectively getting damage in with 2 creatures. While only one was ever on the battlefield at one time. Crazy.

[@Tyfont]

When can we get the Saffron Olive Dyslexia secret lair?

[@lesternomo6578]

need bugler rats and hedge mage

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

​@@lesternomo6578 hope we see flinthorn elves too

[@zotha]

Another fun part of the trample+deathtouch interaction is if the opponent blocks with an indestructible creature you still only need to assign 1 damage to the creature and the rest can trample as this WOULD be lethal damage but indestructible is stopping it dying.

[@seandun7083]

Yes. Though one thing I find interesting is that once it fails to kill the creature, the game forgets that the damage had death touch. If you have a trample+death touch+double strike creature against an indestructible one (with at least 2 toughness), you need to deal 1 before trampling over each time.

[@ninjivitis]

58:15 Maybe Phil was referring to Krenko's Buzzcrusher getting around Lotus Field's hexproof.

[@monhunfox1401]

I think this is what they were referencing as well.

[@JonReid01]

The real mvp 👍

[@crawdaddy1234]

41:54 Another issue with Deathtouch and Trample is when the blocking creature has Indestructible. You still only need to assign one damage, because it is considered “lethal damage” even though it doesn’t destroy the creature. 😂

[@NoLifeLeft13]

Teysa Karlov. People get so many things that do not double wrong.

[@jrightly]

once at an FNM my friend was in a match and he and his opponent asked me how double strike would work after blocks, because I taught my friend the game, so I was like the rules guru. Basically, I told them it worked like trample; the first strike kills the creature then the normal attack does damage. Haunts me to this day, but never made that mistake again.

[@Bubblenuts13]

Dang now I want the MTG anime that begins in Wizard school, where they play the card game Yugioh style, but they actually follow the rules and teach the audience the proper way to play. The teacher explains layers and combat step interactions all while hyping up the next set.

[@bassfingas11]

Also for Moraug, after the second combat it'll go immediately to the End Step. There is no additional Main Phase

[@RyanEglitis]

Myriad Landscape _can_ find Wastes, it just can't find TWO Wastes. And as others have noted, you Zedru's trigger can be responded to to up the number of cards drawn. What you're referring to is an "intervening if" clause, where there's an "if" right after the text of the trigger condition. As you can see, Zedru doesn't have an "if" in the middle, so it's not limited by any check at the time it triggers.

[@RasmusVJS]

Well, the two basics still have to share a land type, so you would need some way to give Wastes in your deck another land type, but I guess you are *technically* correct.

[@RyanEglitis]

@@RasmusVJS no, it can find one wastes, check the rulings. Similarly, it can find one forest which doesn't share a card type with any other land in your library. The type sharing restriction only matters when finding a second land.

[@TheRealWormbo]

Fun fact: Myriad Landscape doesn't need to find two copies of the same land. The two lands need to be basic and share a land type, so you can get a Forest and a Snow-Covered Forest, since both are basic and share the Forest type. (You can't find both a Wastes and a Snow-Covered Wastes this way, since neither has a land type to share.)

[@RasmusVJS]

@@RyanEglitis Ah, you meant 1 Wastes and no other land. I guess that does work, but isn't very useful.

[@seandun7083]

​@@TheRealWormbothey also don't need to share a Basic Land type. Using Rootpath Purifier lets it find two deserts or two Urza's.

[@AnMagicCard]

58:05 you might be thinking of the card krenko's buzzcrusher which destroys lands without targeting. it doesn't even say "choose", it just says "destroy up to one nonbasic land". i feel like y'all discussed it a bit. it was clearly designed to hate on lotus field.

[@nandopaiva4848]

All I can think of are the Glimmerpost from the last video entering tapped HAHAHAAHHAHAAH

[@lesternomo6578]

real lmao

[@SouDeAveiro]

Best unknown color identity combo is playing Acid Rain + Yavimaya to turn everything into Forests for mass land destruction in Mono Blue. Totally legal and great in mono blue artifact decks that can break parity on land destruction. Also breaks parity on friendships!

[@MentalCrusader]

Really love Seth triggering fanbase after fanbase😂

[@twisty093]

Another interesting ruling about Urza's saga is you can only fetch a card with a COST of 0 or 1, not CMC. So you cannot for example fetch a chalice on 0 because its mana cost is XX.

[@brningpyre]

31:50 Zedruu trigger still goes on the stack, even if X = 0. I double-checked online before posting here, and every single ruling I could find indicated it did.

[@schadenfreude4846]

Conjurers Closet effects don't stack the way people want them to. You can't blink the same thing if you have a soulherder and a closet because when the first trigger goes off, the creature is removed from the stack and the second ability fizzles.

[@RyanEglitis]

The enchantment targeting thing was something I used way back in early commander to get around hexproof/shroud. I used to cheat a Treachery into play with Academy Rector as a hail mary out to Uril, the Miststalker decks. The way it works is that you only choose what to attach it to if it would enter the battlefield not by resolving. It's only a choice, so it never targets, and being targeted is all hexproof/shroud protect from. So as long as you choose a legal thing to enchant, it attaches and skips over targeting restrictions.

[@raedien]

Oh Tomer...Zedru works exactly the way it says on the card... which is why it does NOT say "if."

[@keeganbham]

You can definitely respond to your Zedruu trigger when your opponents don't control any of your permanents yet. The trigger will go on the stack at the beginning of your upkeep regardless of how many of your permanents are controlled by opponents. The value of X isn't determined until the trigger resolves. Revel in Riches, on the other hand, only triggers "IF" you control 10 treasures.

[@caasIsirhC]

One thing that has got me multiple times is that casting from a zone is not the same as it entering from a zone. I have a Chainer, Nightmare Adept deck and a card like Flayer of the Hatebound seems like an easy include because it deals damage whenever a creature enters from the graveyard. Except, Chainer lets you CAST from the graveyard which means that the creature enters from the stack. P. S. The 'choose' card was probably Druid of Purification... or Council's Judgement.

[@canoli62]

The important thing for color identity rules with lands is the types. The rules specifically mention land types, so any land that is a Forest land type can only go in a green color identity deck. The pips don't matter with these lands. If you look at dual and tri- lands, you will notice the pips are in the parenthetical aside (that's what the italicized part is called, Tomer ;)... brackets look like this: [ ] ). Normally, being in the parentheses would mean they are fine, but they have the land type as well.

[@RollTheBonez]

The difference between general damage and combat damage was a sore spot when I started out.

[@BrianMcRae57]

33:07 Tomer is wrong about Zedruu, for effects with X in them, X is determined only when they resolve, and the ability will still go on the stack when X is equal to zero. Reference rule 608.2h in the MCR.

[@seandun7083]

Yeah, that's what I thought. The other cards mentioned are different specifically because they are Intervening If statements and therefore check both on trigger and on resolution.

[@seandun7083]

Fun fact that doesn't really have any game play effect: Basic lands have a colorless color identity. Their ability to add mana is not actually on the card since it is instead granted to them via the game rules due to having a basic land type. If you look up the Oracle text for any basic, you will see the mana ability is in italics. There is however a separate rule that says you can't play lands with a land type outside of your commander's color identity. 903.5d: A card with a basic land type may be included in a Commander deck only if each color of mana it could produce is included in the commander's color identity. You can actually also include once basic land type of your choice in a colorless deck. That rule was made before Wastes were a thing and I guess they just don't see a reason to change it, especially since they were a bit expensive since they were only printed in one set for a while. 903.12e: If a player's commander has no colors in its color identity, that player's deck may contain any number of basic lands of one basic land type of their choice. This is an exception to rule 903.5d.

[@GlaceonBM]

This rule is for specifically Brawl, I believe, and not the commander format itself.

[@seandun7083]

@@GlaceonBM I think you might actually be right. I was just searching to find the first rule and saw that one. Makes sense.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

This rule makes sense since we have creatures like the sexy dryad that makes all basics every type.....

[@seandun7083]

@@stormtrooperjeepjk yeah. It doesn't need to specify that it also gives them the ability to tap for any color.

[@TheRealWormbo]

@@stormtrooperjeepjk Color identity only applies to the cards as printed. Gaining or losing abilities or types doesn't change color identity or whether a card may be included in a deck.

[@henrye3935]

Urza's Saga plus Thespian Stage is an insane interaction that I'm sure will come up for you guys at some point. Basically, if you copy Saga with Stage, when the chapter part of the Saga triggers, you can transform the Stage into another land, BUT it keeps the counters plus the abilities granted to it by the Urza's Saga. So you can have a Forest that can keep making Constructs forever.

[@RasmusVJS]

Actually, to tie it together with the podcast, that last part is because of layers. Stage's copy effect is on the 1st layer, whereas Saga's ability adding effects are on the 2nd last layer.

[@JonReid01]

What. Holy shit

[@TheRealWormbo]

@@RasmusVJS Except the layers don't really matter. Urza's Saga creates effects that apply the additional abilities to the permanent, and it doesn't need to retain the saga abilities to keep the additional abilities granted by those effects. The effects stay around, technically even if another effect (e.g. "loses all abilities") comes in later, winning via newer timestamp. That's important, because if that newer effect goes away, the ability-granting effects are still there and the permanent can access those abilities again.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@TheRealWormbo You are correct. Saga's chapter abilities a triggered, not static.

[@JonaxII]

One note about Basics and Color Identity: Basic Forest, Overgrown Tomb, Ketria Triome etc all don't have a mana ability in their rules text and as such no mana symbol. They all have basic types that intrinsically give them the according mana abilities, but not in the textbox. This is why full text (non-promo) versions all have reminder text listing the mana abilities. So just from the Textbox alone, they could go into any commander deck. However, the Color Identity rule has another part: Basic Land Types count for their corresponding color when figuring out Identity. Urborg/Yavimaya get around this by not actually having the Type in their Typeline, only in the rules text.

[@hermodnitter3902]

Yeah I was just 9 minutes into the video and already there are tons of misleading explanations, like the basic lands having the mana symbol making them illegal in other colors... I mean, that is just as wrong as it could be. It is the land having the basic land type which matters.

[@imhoenn5710]

Seth calling Urborg black and Yavimaya green killed me. They are both colorless, as all lands are. Which is exactly why they are able to be played elsewhere.

[@jaredwonnacott9732]

Came to say the same. Yavamya isn't a forest until it's ability is online, aka, once it's entered play. Saying it can't be in a deck because it turns into a forest during the game is like saying if your opponent plays a Blood Moon against your simic deck you now have an illegal deck because all your no basics are now Mountains.

[@imhoenn5710]

@@jaredwonnacott9732 Hot take. Playing blood moon SHOULD make your opponent's deck illegal. Fair and balanced win via DQ.

[@ryantomczak2248]

Damage doublers and creatures with trample are often figured wrong as well. This happened recently at a pod I as in. Someone had a 6/6 with trample and a damage doubler on board. They swung at me and I blocked with my 4/4 and subtracted 4 damage from my life total. An argument erupted and I had to point out that the damage is doubled as it is applied not before. So their 6/6 must assign 4 damage to my 4/4 leaving two damage to trample over. It is at this point that the damage is doubled, so I take 4 damage not the 8 they wanted me to take. Once I pulled up the ruling and showed it to them they understood. By the way, I was at 7 life before the attack and went on to win the game on my next turn by milling out my opponents.

[@GaaradancepartyX]

yeah that permanents returning to last controller thing was something i had to become very familiar with in Blim, Comedic Genius

[@theelectricant98]

Blim is the most fun I've ever had in casual commander, so many strange gamestates lol

[@GaaradancepartyX]

@@theelectricant98 I love watching people go why would you play that? Then they read the commander and are like oooooh

[@spookstheghost1253]

Who up clashing their commander?

[@PalPlays]

...what?

[@litwaffle9848]

@@PalPlayssounds like you ain’t clashing yo commander

[@Blacklodge_Willy]

Sometimes you gotta goldfish your deck a couple times 💦

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

I made the clash deck i sent to seth in paper so i am

[@JonReid01]

Ifkyk

[@ninjachico6771]

I play Moraug in my Lord Windgrace deck, and I have to remind myself how exactly it works every single time I cast it.

[@noahfriedrich4686]

Not really a source of rules problems per the usual, but a fun rule tidbit is that exile and the command zone are each a single zone, like the battlefield, and unlike hands, graveyards, and libraries, which each player has their own.

[@mateuszwreczycki1331]

Another pretty common misplay with Myriad Landscape is to play it in colorless decks, as it won't allow you to search for 2 Wastes, as those are not a Land Type, so they can not share Land Type as the card specifically says.

[@RyanEglitis]

@@mateuszwreczycki1331 yeah, though you can technically still find one wastes, it's not usually a great play to trade a tapped basic land for a land and 2 mana. It works the same as if you had a single forest in your deck to find.

[@mateuszwreczycki1331]

@@RyanEglitis Yes you are correct, but people jam it in colorless deck because they think that it works differently

[@alexroel123]

Also trample deathtouch works the same if the blocker is indestructible! You can just assign 1 and the rest to the next blocker/the opponent

[@Thoughtmage100]

One of my favorite things to do with that Urza's Saga play is to float the colorless mana, search out Sensei's Divining Top, and then use the colorless floating to use the Top.

[@MBGnome]

...Vetega.... Seth would definitely receive a Galick Gun from Vegeta for that one 😂

[@natro10]

My favorite layers interaction has to do with Blood Moon and Urza's Saga. If you had an Urza's Saga with two lore counters and I played a Blood Moon, what would happen is that on layer 4 Blood Moon's type changing affects apply and remove all of Urza's Saga's chapter abilities. However, in layer 6 the ability adding effects that Urza's Saga's chapter abilities want to give itself apply, so Urza's Saga actually keeps the mana ability and the Karnstruct ability. BUT unfortunately because Urza's Saga is now a saga with more lore counters (2) on it than chapter abilities (0), the next time state based actions apply it will immediately go to the graveyard anyway so it doesn't matter that it keeps the abilities it grants itself.

[@RasmusVJS]

Ok, so when Blood Moon "makes nonbasic lands Mountains" it only removes land subtypes, no other super, card or subtypes? That's interesting. So if I play an aura that changes the creature type of a Dryad Arbor, it would still be a Forest?

[@seandun7083]

​@@RasmusVJScorrect. Conspiracy won't remove Forest.

[@addicted2SODA1]

Had a friend assemble a massive board of slivers that were omega lethal. He went to declare attackers while still having the defender card draw sliver out. We passed priority, then happily explained to him he couldn't declare any of his slivers as attackers.

[@crawdaddy1234]

20:18 This reminds me: Another rule people don’t understand affects Urza’s Saga, Urborg and Yavimaya. They actually don’t have an activated ability, so you can’t have Zirda as a companion if you have any of these in your deck. * Why? Yavimaya and Urborg have static abilities that GRANT an activated ability. Similarly, Urza’s Saga only has TRIGGERED abilities - each trigger grants it another activated ability.

[@janlinhart7914]

Yavimaya and Urborg don't grant activated ablities. They add a land type. The land type comes with an activated ability, but Yavimaya and Urborg don't grant them themselves.

[@NeilBFormy]

I’m so glad the Layer’s came up in this video. They are by far the part of Magic that can lead to the most insane outcomes.

[@lokidragon8725]

I used to misplay mycosynth lattice plus bane of progress as a finisher in my mono green deck a lot in the early days... I figured it'd just blow up everything and leave a giant elemental, but I later learned it'd also blow up the creature in the process unless I responded to the Etb to make it indestructible. XD

[@djfranics4544]

Inventors fair has metalcraft without saying metalcraft very important haha have seen a lot of people try to crack it the turn they play it without 3 artifacts on the battlefield

[@ODIRGO]

There is 1 rule in Yugioh, that explains that you HAVE to pay any costs BEFORE even casting a card. I thought it was the same for Magic, but it turns out, in Magic, you show the card you want to cast first, and then you proceed to pay the costs... this can be crucial (and tricky) when we are talking about certain mechanics/conditions like Affinity, city's blessing, and devotion, in which sometimes you have to sac permanents as part of the cost, but the card still "sees" that you met the casting conditions mentioned above, before you sac the permanents to cast it. For example, you can cast Hour of Revelation for only 3 mana instead of 6, if you have treasures on the battlefield that help you get to your 10 permanents count. EVEN if you are going to sac those treasures at the moment of casting the card, the cost of Hour of Revelation doesn't increase, because when you showed the card you already had met the cost reduction's conditions.

[@RyanEglitis]

@@ODIRGO you can do it either way in Magic, people may just be confused when you're tapping vanilla creatures for hidden convoke abilities. Magic actually used to force paying costs first way back in the day, but it was changed after a pretty awful PT game loss, to allow either way. Though you are right that paying after you show the card can be in your benefit, like with treasures.

[@RyanEglitis]

@@ODIRGO The city's blessing doesn't care about cast order, fwiw, since the ascend text is part of the spell resolving (way past paying costs). And there's only one devotion card where it matters, because it's using devotion to reduce the cost of the spell.

[@TheRealWormbo]

The way it works in Magic is that right before any time you are required to pay costs that include mana, you are allowed to activate mana abilities. You are also allowed to activate them any time you have priority. Here it is important to note that casting a spell or activating an ability is a multi-step process, and the step that calculates the total cost comes before the step that allows you to activate mana abilities, which comes directly before the step where you pay the costs. If you sacrifice treasures before putting Hour of Revelation on the stack, the spell does not see those treasures. But if you sacrifice the treasures in that specific "activate mana abilities" step, the cost reduction has already been locked in.

[@jaredwright1655]

You'd be happy to know this was actually not how it used to be, and I believe a very old Pro Tour game was lost by the lad just accidentally showed the card he was casting while he counted his mana for it. He got a game loss over not tapping his mana first. The rule was changed shortly after

[@blainerodgers5294]

Probably been said but since Zedruu doesn’t say “if” wouldn’t his trigger still go on the stack and check for “X” when it resolves?

[@furak]

7:50 Urborg isnt black and Yavimaya isnt green, they're both colorless lands, Seth should know that i think

[@crawdaddy1234]

This is correct. When a land has a basic land type, it has the property of tapping for that color of mana. BUT because Urborg and Yavimaya are not actually a Swamp or Forest unless on the battlefield, they don’t have the property.

[@winter945]

​@@crawdaddy1234also, notably, basic land types have a special rule in commander that they count for colour identity, otherwise they would be colourless, the same way extort doesn't count towards cour identity

[@furak]

@@crawdaddy1234 of course basic lands have their color identity, because they have tap to gain "manasymbol" on them, saying forest if a green card is like saying Kenrith is a wubrg card, it's not, it's a white card with 5c color identity, all i meant was to point out saying those two lands are black or green is incorrect

[@crawdaddy1234]

@@furak And I agreed with you - I literally said, “This is correct.” I was just explaining why in case someone didn’t understand.

[@Alecations]

He actually mentions this and the color identity being available in any deck.

[@Roberto-kx5rr]

Just to add to Urza’s Saga misplays. I’ve seen a lot of people get illegal targets for the third chapter. It can’t get artifact lands because they don’t have mana costs and it can’t get 1 mana artifacts that cost a colored pip like Esper Sentinel because it has to be exactly mana cost {1}.

[@RasmusVJS]

I mean, it was very specifically worded as "{0} or {1}" for exactly this reason, so I'm kinda surprised that there are people who still get it wrong.

[@seandun7083]

​@@RasmusVJSyeah. Lotus Bloom is a card.

[@dominikjohnston5601]

I’ve learned for cards such as reconnaissance, when explaining combat it’s best to describe it as a swing of a sword. Choosing to swing is entering combat. The beginning of the swing is announcing attackers. The opponent choosing blockers is then recognizing you attacked and putting up defenses. When the swords/strike connect is damage. But The strike doesn’t end after you connect with your target. There is momentum that carries your swing further. That’s the leaving combat phase.

[@SladeWeston]

OMG! Hold up. Was Seth the only one to pronounce reconnaissance correctly. ruh·kaa·nuh·sns? I'm not sure if I should buy a lottery ticket or start preparing for the end of days.

[@derekgorlewski7870]

Daybreak Coronet is another interesting 'corner-case' card, because it has to enchant an already enchanted creature. It cannot be attached to a creature without an aura already on it (even through a Sun Titan type ability). The more frequently overlooked interaction though, is that DC will immediately be removed (fall off) if at any time there are no other auras attached to the creature. Niche, but I've been 2-1'd so many times as the enchantress/voltron player in a pod. Thanks as always for the content and entertainment!

[@seandun7083]

Yeah. It's specifically since it says "with ANOTHER aura attached to it". If it instead just said "A aura", then removing it later wouldn't be an issue. The new Lion Umbra counts for it's own ability once it's attached.

[@JayeGlow]

I think a good idea for a commander clash is only using cards for a deck with a specific card number or numbers if you need more of a variety

[@Daknight83]

I wish you would have mentioned that you can still take commander damage when life total can't change

[@sebvieira]

I did play Karma against my friends who almost all played black. That was before commander/edh was a thing though. My deck didn't really do that many cool things, but I tried to play two copies of Karma in one turn, late in the game, and then watch everybody die or take so much damage that I could easily win. Eventually people just asked beforehand if I played Karma and then proceeded to kill me so they could enjoy the game. My deck slowly turned into a Karma deck with circles of protection though. I think I also played Angry Mob then. Of course, my deck was useless against non-black players, and by the time Urborg came out, I already left school and didn't play so much anymore.

[@TempestTenor]

Tomer is dead wrong about Zedruu. It, in fact, does trigger during your upkeep regardless of whether you've donated any permanents. The term you're looking for is an "intervening if clause." If a trigger is in the form of "when/at X, if Y, then Z", this trigger checks condition Y at both trigger time and upon resolution. So if Y is not true at trigger time, it will not go on the stack at all. That is indeed how Revel in Riches works, but it's not limited to triggers that occur during the upkeep. Other examples include Acclaimed Contender, Aerial Surveyor, and Agent of Treachery.

[@ZSAITOSEI]

The only reason I learned about Reconnaissance and how it works is because the ACR printing tells you in its reminder text 😂

[@AxillaryPower2]

23:45 Minor correction: you can activate reconnaissance in the Declare Attackers step; the actual act of declaring attackers (and blockers) is the very first thing that is done in the attack (or block) step, then priority is passed before going to Declare Blockers (or Damage). For reconnaissance, you may want to remove your attacker in case the opponent has block triggers or something.

[@jcstaff1007]

Declare. Not d+ eclair.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

​@@jcstaff1007mmmm eclairs

[@gameboywolf]

A good one is Growing Rites of Itlimoc. It's very similar to the "beginning of upkeep" where GRI won't trigger unless you have 4 or more creatures before the end step. Found that out with Mycotyrant 😬

[@RukiHyena]

Urborg or Yavimaya can be played in decks were your head commander has swampwalk or forestwalk but your not in those colors. like I guess if you're playing a niche Veldrane of Sengir commander deck, it would be funny to see.

[@Zarbon000]

😂😂😂

[@samarbrander981]

Yeah to crims point i do this a lot with settle the wreckage, let them alpha strike an opponent then remove all their creatures

[@Giterleather]

Shout out my boy Vetega, the Prince of all Cyans

[@czechyourselfb4uwrek]

I learned two critical rules from this pod! Torbran and Uril are often opponents 😊

[@jadegrace1312]

The thing about Magus of the Moon is so confusing not just because of layers, but also because of the rule that says that overriding land types makes the land lose all other abilities, so Magus of the Moon changes abilities even though it applies in layer 4.

[@RasmusVJS]

But its ability removing effect is on the ability removing layer, right?

[@jadegrace1312]

@@RasmusVJS Nope it's part of the type changing layer. It's just that the changing type has an associated rule that removes the abilities. It's a funny interaction.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@jadegrace1312 Ah, so it's just a rule that removing land types removes all abilities, it's not a separate effect.

[@seandun7083]

​@@RasmusVJSyeah. It's like how certain clone effects like Metamorphic Alteration technically remove all the printed abilities but still apply on layer 1 (copy effects).

[@koloblicin9721]

Most misplayed card is counterspell. Don't just counter the first thing you can!

[@tianruixiao9239]

The last part is the interesting bit (and aptly named), especially with copying and text replacing stuff, as well as the interaction with things like dryad arbor and urza's saga. It's good that you guys have a resident Blood Moon expert in the group :D

[@thespanishinquisiton8306]

I think the card they're referring to at the end is Krenko's Buzzcrusher, which can't target because it's meant to be Lotus Field hate

[@combatwombat8742]

Just about to comment this

[@user-if1gh4xl5h]

I learned of how busted Comet is because it doesn't target its damage

[@seandun7083]

Yeah. It can't target since the mode is chosen on resolution.

[@TheStalk]

Adding to the saga conversation, you can remove a counter with the last chapter on the stack and it wont sacrifice itself. So you get the last ability and get to keep the saga.

[@RasmusVJS]

Interesting, since the reminder text for sagas say that you sacrifice them after chapter 3, but I assume then it is actually "sacrifice after chapter 3 assuming that it is still at chapter 3" then?

[@seandun7083]

​@@RasmusVJSthe rules say you sac it when it has at least as much lore as chapters and it doesn't have any abilities on the stack. That also kills Urza's Saga when Blood Moon is out since it loses it's chapter abilities.

[@TheStalk]

@@RasmusVJS Yeah, sagas are weird like that, as @seandun7083 mentioned, sagas are sacrificed only after their last ability has left the stack AND they still have the appropriate number of counters. So you can play with the number of counters in while the ability is yet to resolve. I only learned this after building a Narci saga deck and I swear, I have to explain this everytime I play it. Haha

[@robertolukas3minutos]

The Opposition Agent situation is wrong, Zedruu too.

[@creedplaysgames9811]

jumping on the "getting around targeting" subject. when i got back into the game during RTR block i learned the hard way that overload replacing the word "target" with the word "each" would get around my hexproof permanents

[@ghoulofmetal]

even worse than magus of the moon and humility is what happens if you enchant magus of the moon with captured in the moon, which wont only end with all nonbasic lands becoming mountains, the magus of the moon will become a mountain, that can only tap for one colorless mana.

[@RasmusVJS]

So the 1st relevant layer is type changing. Imprisoned in the Moon makes Magus into a land and makes it lose the type creature, and Magus makes all nonbasic lands into Mountains, including now itself. Then Imprisoned in the Moon makes Magus colorless. Then we have the ability adding and removing effects, with Humility removing all creatures' abilities, though this isn't relevant since neither Imprisoned in the Moon nor Magus are creatures at this point, and Imprisoned in the Moon gives Magus (now in the Moon rather than of the Moon :P) the ability "{t}: add {c}", and both Imprisoned in the Moon and Magus makes the Magus lose all its other abilities, including the ability to make nonbasic lands Mountains, though this isn't relevant, since the effect still happens on an earlier layer. Wow, that sure is an interaction, I will give you that.

[@ghoulofmetal]

@@RasmusVJS also as far as i understood it, he cant tap for red

[@RasmusVJS]

@@ghoulofmetal Yep, because in the ability layer, Imprison removes all Magus' abilities except "{t}: add {c}", including the ability added to it in the type layer.

[@FilippoCampana]

The "attacking" vs "declared as attacker" part is actually pretty fun, cuz with the same principles you can cast mirror march from c15 and block creatures that cannot be blocked, or with alesha you can reanimate attacking walls/creature with defender

[@seandun7083]

My favorite card that lets you make use of the specific steps of combat is Celestial Flare. You can use it after damage so that they can't sacrifice anything that was already going to die to damage.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Its funny that in a video trying to clear up confusion about mechanics the crew showcased their lack of knowledge about some and the comments needed to correct them which only made some of these things even more complicated...

[@RasmusVJS]

Tbf, from the comments, I now understand exactly how these rules work, thereby making them less complicated.

[@Crodobizgles]

Simplest way to describe trample+death touch: death touch means 1 damage is lethal damage and trample means any excess damage beyond lethal can be assigned to the defending player. This phrasing is helpful because it explains why even if the defending 12/12 is indestructible (so no amount of damage is lethal) a death touch and trampling 12/12 attack can still hit face for 11. As long as the trampler has deathtouch, 1 damage is lethal damage.

[@kandjar]

36:50 additionally to Seth comment, if they are many face down cards, even though the opponents are not supposed to know which one is which… your opponent still needs to know which face down card is your commander.

[@RasmusVJS]

Ah, I assumed they would first learn it once damage was dealt, and they either had or hadn't taken commander damage. Good to know.

[@TheForeverRanger]

Also gets annoying if you are playing multiple types of facedown cards because each of them are ruled a certain way. So if you are playing cards that morph AND manifest, you have to indicate which is which because they have different rules.

[@mmlgamer]

8:58 I’ve brought this point up with the RC discord, and I’ll bring it up here: The mana symbol on basic lands IS reminder text and therefore falls in the same category as extort’s mana symbols. The difference is that basic land types have a special rule that excludes off-color types from commander decks. For some reason, this rule is not explicitly stated on the official commander website even though it is perfectly reasonable to assume that off-color basic land types are legal without that special rule.

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

This is *not* true, as evidenced by the full text basic lands.

[@mmlgamer]

@@raedienYou are wrong as evidenced by the fact that the special rule I mentioned (903.5d) even NEEDS to exist.

[@mmlgamer]

@@casteanpreswyn7528Basic lands (EDIT: Except for Wastes and Snow-Covered Wastes) have empty rules text. The SL full text lands are merely a humorous take on extreme clarification.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@raedien You are, in fact, the one in the wrong here. "Text box" and "Abilities" are not synonymous. Yes, all lands with a basic land type have the mana *ability* "{t}: add its respective color", but that ability is not in their *text box* . It literally says in the rules section you picked out "even if the object has no text box". Look at the snow duals from Kaldheim, they literally have it as reminder text.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@raedien *Rules Text* is an actual, mechanical element of objects in the MtG rules, and is not synonymous with the list of abilities of that object. Basic lands do in fact have no *rules text* , they just have a mana *ability* granted to them from their basic land type, hence why the rule that lands with basic land types can't be included in decks whose color identity don't correspond to the basic land types is a necessity.

[@kingvire]

So the gang is a little wrong about the land thing. The ability to tap for colored mana is an intrinsic ability of the land being a land type and not effect or reminder text. That intrinsic ability is specifically what lends to its color identity for commander. A forest has no effect text it’s just an intrinsic part of being a forest. So something to know for things like mutate if you mutate on top of an animated land and it doesn’t have effect text stating it can tap for mana then it will no longer be able to tap for mana as the land loses its land type when it becomes the bottom of a mutate.

[@winter945]

Fun side note, there can be reminder text for what basic land types do as reminder text has no affect on the actual rules of the card, this can be seen on the kaldheim snow dhals with basic land types, among others

[@seandun7083]

There is still an extra rule that does make them act like they have the appropriate identity though. 903.5d: A card with a basic land type may be included in a Commander deck only if each color of mana it could produce is included in the commander's color identity.

[@TheRealWormbo]

I believe intrinsic abilities from basic land types are treated the same way Extort is, the big mana symbol on basic lands is just reminder text. The actual reason you can't include off-color basics is a separate rule: > 903.5d A card with a basic land type may be included in a Commander deck only if each color of mana it could produce is included in the commander’s color identity. So basic lands actually have colorless identity, but you are not allowed to include them in a colorless deck due to them being able to tap for a color. Similarly, Murmuring Bosk has WB color identity (there's no green symbol on the card, and the card itself is colorless), but because it has a basic land type (Forest) and can tap for white, black, or green, you are not allowed to play it unless your deck's identity includes at least those three colors.

[@kingvire]

@@winter945 yep and it’s even funnier now that some duals don’t have the reminder text and it looks wrong lol I’d rather the text than not for those kind of cards personally

[@kingvire]

@@seandun7083 thank you for posting the actual rule, I mentioned it but didn’t know the rule exactly.

[@INTstincts]

Also, slight correction on Opposition agent -- the control effect is decided by timestamp, the player who most recently played opposition agent gets to control the player searching their library. So if Phil plays oppo, then Crim plays oppo, Crim's opposition agent has the most recent timestamp, so when Tomer searches his library, Crim gets to control him. The exile effect is a replacement, so technically speaking, yes, the affected player gets to decide which opposition agent receives the exiled cards... but the rulings for opposition agent specifically call out that, whoever owns the most recent opposition agent is controlling the affected player, and makes ALL decisions for them while they are searching the library, which includes deciding the order of replacement effects. So in the above scenario, Tomer gets to choose whether Phil or Crim get the exiled cards... but Crim is controlling Tomer, so Crim gets to say "Tomer chooses to give the cards to me". Basically, Opposition Agent is in this weird liminal space where it is technically a replacement effect, but it doesn't behave like other replacement effects because of the control effect that is applied via timestamps on it's layer, so it works differently than almost every other replacement effect in the game

[@TheMrRian]

We will RIOT! "Drabon Gall" is sacred SETH!

[@RyanEglitis]

Vitega and Gorpko, my favorite x-mens.

[@jonathanthompson1795]

This video reminded me of a fun interaction that happened at my lgs once. Player A (me) reanimated Player B's (my friends) Dauthi Voidwalker. A turn or two later, Player B targeted removed the Dauthi with a destroy effect, and we needed to call a judge to make sure what happened to the creature. Since at the time of dying, Player B was both the owner and an opponent, Dauthi exiled itself, which was really funny at the time.