What Is The '65 Chord' And Why Does It Sound SO GOOD On Guitar?

[@stubbsmusic543]

In case there is any confusion, in traditional figured-bass harmony (taught in colleges) the 6/5 chord is an inversion of a dominant seventh with the third in the bass. The alternate theory that is being taught in this video refers to intervals relative to the root. And I think it serves that purpose well - though the nomenclature would confuse a person educated in traditional harmony. Refer to the Berkeley Contemporary Music Notation textbook.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Sorry, but I need to nitpick here for clarity. The 6/5 chord in figured bass is NOT an inversion of a dominant 7th. It is true that when realized in 4 voices it has the same notes as a 7th chord, though not necessarily a dominant. But when realized in 3 voices, it can take the form I show in the video. Also, figured bass was devised before we 'invented' the concept of inversion (but that's another can of worms...). You see why I am not talking much about this in the video.. ;-)

[@stubbsmusic543]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Wrong. You don’t know theory. That’s OK I don’t have to watch your bullshit anyway. It said that other people will pick up on your erroneous information though.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Which of my statements in the last comment is wrong?

[@martin-1965]

OMG that chord progression is beautiful and so simple. Subbed to your channel because I need to know these things to break my creative rut. I'm 57 and working on an album with my band (of 40 years) and as the songwriter in the band I have never really understood why some of our songs work. Your lovely simple and non-patronising way of explaining theory is just what I need right now. You rock 🤘

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@robertjohnson2067]

What band??

[@basilmusicproduction]

I appreciate your attention to voice leading. I find your lessons to be helpful for composition even if I am not using a guitar.

[@matthieuvanasse8092]

Oh man... I so like your videos like this (and especially this one!) because they stimulate "creativity". I compose and record a lot of original music for "underwater videos"; lush images of fish and coral reefs often slowed down for image stability. Thus, I find myself looking to create EXACTLY that "haunting feeling" or eerie or even gloomy feeling you are describing. Tommaso my friend, you just UNLOCKED hundreds of creative ideas for me with the "65" dissonance. Not only for guitar, but also for keys. Thanks. I am sure that often, you ask yourself "WHY" your are doing these things and if they are even relevant or impactful... Please never doubt yourself... Stay the same... Just for that little spark you gave me today, it was worth it! You are creating a better musical community!

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Thank you! I really appreciate this.

[@timothyj.bowlby5524]

Another really good demonstration. It'd be really good if you could incorporate "regular" musical notation as well. That way you'd have/we'd get the best of both worlds.

[@SavageGreywolf]

'regular' notation (probably should be called staff notation exclusively- but the problem is most people don't even know there are multiple types of musical notation) is incredibly unintuitive and backwards for guitarists. It was designed with pianos (and instruments with a piano layout) in mind- stringed instruments can play the same chords in a dozen different ways, each with the same notes- but you get a different intonation if you play an A chord high on the neck on the high strings vs playing it low on the neck on the bass strings, even though they're the same notes. Tablature tells you exactly which finger position on which string the notation wants you to play.

[@dreistein]

Tablatures alone are like instant cooking recipes. You get perfect results but have no idea what happens. Having both notations seems much better to me, too.

[@theskidmarkoforion4829]

I love lightbulb moments like this. Wonderful. Thank you ✌️

[@TheAntiburglar]

As soon as I heard it, Fade To Black started playing in full in my head...and then you called me out and I feel *seen* XD

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

:-)

[@wolfrayet25music_official]

I like to think of minor 65 chords as a minor b6 chord without the b3. A lot of hip hop trap beats use this chord a lot.

[@Yupppi]

Honestly, add9 without 3rd is one of the best sounds. Also playing a power chord consequently with the octave dropped to 7. Or consequently with moving between the octave and 9. But I suppose it works with full chord as well, I recall Van Halen liked that subtle lead line implemented in the chord. Should it be called 59 or 57 chord? Octave + 3rd above (or should it be 10?) is also nice. I guess broken chords in general have nice sounds.

[@ahmeterenosun8572]

Add9 without the third is just a sus2 chord. Power chord with added 7th can be called Maj7(omit 3). And yes Octave plus 3rd is gorgeous and used by many guitarist.

[@calebbean1384]

A power chord (root fifth) with a seventh is an inverted madd11 chord without a fifth. The best way to write a chord is to omit the fifth first A - E - G Is E - G - A For purposes of harmonic analysis, use inversions, it presents the chord "flavor" better For melodic analysis, use ideas like yours, they do tend to work better in that context, following each voice individually If that makes any sense

[@mikedamisch]

Love these lessons that gives me_us new ideas for writing music. I hope I understand this, will try to use it in future writing.

[@dangerkeith3000]

R.E.M.'s song "Pilgrimage" has the entire verse(s) as 65 chords. Yes, it is a very haunting sound!

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Cool!

[@chromosomegun5845]

time to learn another R.E.M. song babe

[@RemyLuciani]

Very interesting voicings, thanks for sharing!

[@bernardorodriguesribeiro750]

there is an cool brazillian band named boogarins that has an song called "tempo", they use this chord a lot in the main riff, specifically the voicing with the 5th in the high octave

[@joshskowron]

My dude, you have the best voice ever!

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Why, thanks :)

[@joshuaireland5510]

Here's another fun way to use these; start on your "65" chord, lets say E major, so we have E, B, C#. Then move the root up a half step which gives us F, B, C#, or first inversion of C#7. From there you can resolve nicely to F# (minor or major, depending on what feeling you want to invoke). Tis a fun little progression to play around with.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Yes! That's one of the tricks that Durante shows in the manuscript too. If you found this out by yourself, congrats! (I had to read it, didn't figure it out by myself)

[@joshuaireland5510]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar thanks! Stumbled upon it awhile ago, probably from spending too much time alone in a room with a guitar :P btw your last example really showcased how voice leading can make or break a chord progression. If you haven't explorered that topic on your channel I think it'd definitely be worthwhile. Great video regardless, you explained the concept well without overcomplicating things. Cheers!

[@KarstenJohansson]

Also the intro to Crazy Train, if you want to do it with a heavier sound. It was definitely an 80's chord. Listen to the intro of Too Late For Love from Def Leppard, too.

[@chryslercartography9024]

Should the EBC chord really be a C# rather than C in order for the chord to be consistent with the GDE chord?

[@Quadr44t]

3:11 Hey, I was about to say that! 😤

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

HEHEHE :-)

[@AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL]

Very interesting lesson, I always like ones where you teach ways to get from one chord to the next. Very beautiful sounding chords also.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Thanks!

[@seanandben]

Very nice sounding chords Tomasso, and a very useful lesson. I wrote a song using them after minor 9 - (or minor add 9 chords) - and they sound great - melancholy, which I personally like the sound of.

[@yakzivz1104]

i really like this chord!!!

[@CharlesEBusa]

Around 9:00 Kind of reminds of me the Truman Sleeps sound. Thanks for the great video!

[@paullennon8586]

Do you use the 5 6 chord or the 5 6 notes in each chord?

[@rorybninetythree]

interesting hearing this out of the context of a genre like Melodic Hardcore where it's absolutely everywhere. Some good examples of bands that use this all the time are Counterparts, Misery Signals and Being As An Ocean

[@thomaswalker8790]

Sure has a magical effect

[@miedzystrunami]

Well, the argument about people not using Am7 in first inversion with ommitted 5 seems a bit far fetched - those three notes (C, G, A) form exactly the so-called shell voicing for Am7, where we purposefully ommit 5th and concentrate on those elements that indicate the quality of the chord, i.e. the root, the 3rd and the 7th. Only here it's in first inversion. It's not uncommon if you think about it this way - shell voicing is very popular.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Shell voicings in first inversion are not popular at all. But besides that, this tends to sound more like a C6no3 rather than an Am7/C no5 (yes the notes are the same, but there is still a distinction between Am7 and C6)

[@miedzystrunami]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar sure, but fr the theory standpoint I'd rather think about the resulting chord progression as putting secondary dominants (V chords) in front of F and Am, just in shell voicing and 2nd inversion, than as putting a 65 chord made on a note one step lower - the first way of thinking is an established harmonic rule, the other one is an arbitrary heuristic that for me personally is harder to memorize.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Well, I'm not here to tell you how to think or not to think (you should think in the way that is easier for you!) Just noticing that: 1. These are not secondary dominant but diatonic chords. 2. They are (in your terminology) in FIRST, not SECOND inversion. 3. Both ways of thinking are formally equivalent in terms of complexity or explanation power. If we talk about "established", then the principle "put a 65 chord on the note one degree lower" has been formalized waaaay before the secondary dominant (or, in this case, chords with the root a 5th above in the key).

[@miedzystrunami]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar You're of course correct with 1 and 2, thank you for pointing that out. I meant first inversion, as I did in my first comment, but derped for a moment, sorry. And of course, they're diatonic, not secondary dominant - the first one just happens to be dominant, but the second one is minor 7th. As per your 3rd point, don't have enough experience of playing with other people and communicating musical ideas to know that first hand, so I trust you on that. But apart from all that nitpicking, I wanted to express that I really appreciate and enjoy you writing back and explaining things, on top of your enjoyable and informative videos. It's so rare to have this kind of conversation and interaction in the comments with the content creator nowadays. Thank you for your commitment!

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

@@miedzystrunami Thank you!

[@Corujadocerrado]

Love it, man! Thank you for this another great lesson!

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

My pleasure!

[@calebbean1384]

I think this works to teach voice leading better than traditional harmony. But traditional harmony might present the harmonic tension and movement in the abstract better

[@markcox5385]

Figured Bass rides again 👍

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

May it never die! (I love figured bass. So many things are more evident in that notation...)

[@JereToikka]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Can you make a video on what figured bass makes easier? :)

[@jacebastian7192]

Very cool chord, thanks for sharing! Yes, the minor version of this chord does have a very "haunting" kind of sound: Gotta love that m6 "fighting" with the P5. :) One criticism though is that personally I think you use way too much reverb... while simultaneously using way too 'little' reverb. Figure out how to fix that and your sound will be perfect! ;) ;) ;)

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

HAHAHA!

[@Divlnorum]

Molto interessante. Bravo amico!

[@MyPinkFloydian]

Great vids

[@vithanika707]

how is it the same chord if it has different relative notes?

[@domagojoinky8262]

So, this would be, for example, C6 (without 3rd), or the Am7 (without fifth) in the first inversion ?

[@ahmeterenosun8572]

Exactly

[@johndoc4483]

Love at first hear ..

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

:-)

[@zepp2498]

Wouah, it's a little kind of chinese to me, I realize I have very much to learn. Great video and explanations. Thank you.

[@themusicbook8679]

Stellar

[@bentleycharles779]

Very good.

[@tomaszmazurek64]

Very useful, as always. I have a bit of an off topic question - I can hear a faint echo of a voice throughout the whole video and it's been driving me nuts, have you changed the recording location, or am I imagining things?

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

You are totally hearing things, and you should ask your friendly neighborhood psychiatrist/exorcist to help you... OOOoooor it's simply my voice entering also in the guitar microphone, and I didn't notice when I was recording. Oops.

[@lazarnikolic8161]

Reminds me of Pat Metheny's Ferry Cross the Mersey for some reason

[@thejcquartet6943]

Hmmm. Thing is, chords (and chord symbols) are not key dependant, so you are talking about various chords here, each depending on their relation to the actual key. So there is no '65' chord in the way we normally define chords e.g. a G7 chord is a G7 chord regardless of the current key. So for this '65' arrangement of notes you would need to define it as 65 or b65 or b6b5 or even more if it is harmonic or melodic minor. But as a method to find interesting combinations of notes I guess it is fine.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Correct. "65" is the name used in thorough bass notation (and that notation IS key- and degree- dependent). It's, like you notice, a family of chords, not unlike when we talk about "7th chords".

[@ahmeterenosun8572]

Isn't calling it 5/6 and 5/b6 more appropriate. Since in chord names we use the tonality or the triad name(foundation) of chord(even though power chord is not a triad) then the extensions (like we use in minor6th major7th Minormajor7th). If we think that way chords tonality or foundation is 5th chord and its extension is some kind of 6th either b6 or natural 6. So in my opinion it should called 5/6 and 5/b6. Btw videos about 6/9 chord without a third (6thsus2) and a 6/9 with suspended 4th (6/9 sus4) chords would be fun to watch.

[@lolobuggah2670]

But why does it work a whole step below the next chord? How did you come to the conclusion that's the best way to use it?

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

What do you mean by "best"?

[@lolobuggah2670]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Let me rephrase that. How did you discover using this chord a whole step below the next chord is a good way to use it?

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

@@lolobuggah2670 By playing all the chord progressions I know that contain that chord, and figuring out the patterns. But if you want a more analytical explanation: because this create a root movement down a 5th, or in Jazz palrance, "becuase it follows the cycle of 5ths"

[@lolobuggah2670]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar thanks for sharing. All your videos are great.

[@randydean23]

Other interesting uses of the 5/6 that come to mind: three days by Jane's Addiction and Could have lied by the Red Hot Chili Peppers

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Nice!

[@randydean23]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar just realized I made a mistake on the song title_ the title for the 🌶 Chilli Peppers tune was could of lied off of blood sugar sex magic.

[@garfield8900]

Nice! Can this be done in open D tuning?

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Yes of course!

[@andym2612]

From the title I thought it would be the Fade to Black intro described as a chord

[@TimothyOBrien1958]

It's an Am7 in first inversion.

[@emperorspock3506]

65 chord: 'Psst, bro, wanna get high on some Figured Bass?'

[@richardhunt809]

Another very interesting video. With these dissonant chords, it can be difficult to use them with distortion. How can I play interesting chords with distortion? Power chords get boring. Thanks!

[@pattepato4592]

Play them the same way. If your sound is muddy then what you need is more definition.

[@pattepato4592]

I actually use dissonance to check if my distorted sound is nice. The good ol' full diminished seven with all six strings.

[@richardhunt809]

@@pattepato4592 I think you also need perfect intonation because distortion brings out the harmonics.

[@colmcq]

i use min 2nds all the time

[@patrickblay7684]

Magnificent

[@tiborbogi7457]

I am a beginner, I would like to see your fingers playing these chords on acoustic guitar.

[@baschdiro8565]

I think, the 69-chord is more satisfying.

[@metaljay2896]

Especially when rooted on the G string.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Note to self: keep marking all music theory videos I upload as "not for kids."

[@christopherheckman7957]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar It's not so much the videos as the comments.

[@manuelpassarella]

It works on so many levels..

[@ATITKD]

Winner!

[@marke8323]

Mario!

[@ashamael]

Oh man, this would sound great using massive reverb & leading into spread triads (the heart of ambient guitar)! I"m gonna give it a shot

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Yes! BTW, I'm loving this comment section. First comment: "use less reverb." Last comment "use more reverb". That's KZbin :)

[@christopherheckman7957]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar There's an old saying about Usenet (the forerunner of online forums): Rule #17: Go not to Usenet for counsel, for they will say both "No" and "Yes" and "Try another newsgroup."

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Indeed :-) Just to clarify: I'm amused by this, not offended. And honestly, listening to it now, I would have put even more reverb ;-)

[@christopherheckman7957]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar And more cowbell. 8-)

[@ashamael]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar My comment wasn't about how much reverb you were or were not using! I was just thinking aloud about using it in that context!

[@jimiwills]

I use this chord...

[@JimKernix]

C-G-A, or A-C-G = Am7 omit 5 | E-B-C or C-E-B = Cmaj7 omit 5. So it's really an inversion and interval thing. Hey, it if sounds good then it is good.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

That's what I say in the video, but it's not your fault that you missed it. After all, I said it ONLY twice 0:28 and 3:35. I knew I should have said it at least a third time ;-)

[@JimKernix]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Holy shit dude. Would you like my address so you can come by and spit in my face too?

[@christopherheckman7957]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar "Whatever I say three times is true." (Lewis Carroll, The Hunting of the Snark)

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Didn't mean to offend. Then again, probably my fault: I put only one smiley. I should have posted 3 ;-) ;-) ;-) (ba-bump psssh)

[@JimKernix]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar You don't realize that you should not have replied? You think I'm looking for a semi-colon and parens? You speak with a cadence and an accent, and I was refactoring a javascript app as I was listening. What the eff was in your head that you felt the need to reply? You should have said it 3 X's, "you didn't mean to offend", then 3 winky stupid things. Do you have any awareness at all?

[@MrSuzuki1187]

If you know it, it cannot be unknown!

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

HAHAHA :-) Good point.

[@CountJayeAndTheHardBeats]

Been using those in my songs without even knowing what it was.

[@SteveSZ27]

This is great stuff, lots to chew on. I'm going to watch this a few more times though because (man!) you go rip through it quickly. Hello pause button.

[@lamper2]

I was SO confused at first assuming that "guitar" was standard music notation

[@curiouscatlabincgetsworrie7755]

kinda like The Cranberries - Zombie?

[@pattepato4592]

Damn! I just went through the comment section. Musicians are sensitive people, me included. Sometimes too sensitive.

[@flamindigo]

the guys handwriting isn't keeping up with his mouth he says 2:30 "c" and instead of writing r for root or 1, he writes 3 which would be e, the 3rd of the chord.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Synchronization is tricky.

[@dlguitar64]

I just call it C6. No 5 needed on the symbol

[@Yokai.Wakukhan]

could you figure a visualizer with triangles and ratios that match in reality the composition of musical geometry that matches what we hear and see? Hire a harp player to play along to your analytical breakdown. haha I think this is some of the best intellectual musical content I have available. Much love this shows thank you sir.

[@quamne]

my poor left hand

[@Yokai.Wakukhan]

Anybody listen to Arbour?

[@philg7806]

Am, Am9, F, Em7 (or G6). Your terminology of "6 5" is uncommon and confusing. If it were to appear in a chord chart for a band to perform, there would be much uncertainty as to how to perform it, and would require discussion between the musicians. It would be better to indicate the root and quality of the chord, and then any extensions to be added, or omitted. Without a bass instrument, it is difficult to determine one particular name for your 6 5 chord. The haunting sound you mention could be from the tone of your guitar and amp, reverb and delays can create this effect as well. A chord on its own doesn't create a mood for a piece of music, but it's context within a progression. Unfortunately misleading music theory, new chord names being conjured to attract views. Stick with the standard terminology and speak the same language as other musicians

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Today I learned that figured bass notation is "uncommon and confusing".

But 6/5 in figured bass would be a 7th chord in 1st inversion, right? For example: B D F G.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

@ It's a bit more complex than that. A 6/5 chord may be realized as what WE would call a 7th chord in the first inversion when you play in 4 voices (in 3 voices, instead, it would be realized most often as I show in the video). But that's not the original idea, since nobody thought of chord inversion when figured bass was invented, and they thought of it as a separate chord. Either way, try playing this chord and then ask people to sing the root... and see what happens ;-) Also 0:28 and 3:35.

[@philg7806]

@MusicTheoryForGuitar I see your point and it makes more sense when you outline it this way. But there is no mention of figured bass in your presentation of the chord. Also, you make reference to modern genres such as metal and rock. Figured bass is a harmonic concept used primarily in baroque/classical music and is not appropriate to use within modern genres, when referencing harmony. My point about it being confusing to name a chord which contains a root, 5th and 6th chord tones, still stands, in regards to when musicians are required to play it in these genres. Also, it is not named as a "sixty five" chord in figured bass

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I'm not discussing the merits of your video (I really like it) but your mention of figured bass. First of all, nobody mixes chord symbols with figured bass, it would be chaotic. Second, continuo players absolutely thought 6/5/3 when they saw "6/5" (as they played 6/3 when a "6" was written or played a triad in root position when nothing was written below a note). It's within the conventions of the Baroque style. Even though the origin of this notation was counterpoint and didn't imply functional harmony, it very soon did, and that's probably THE key difference between Renaissance and Baroque music theory.

[@pattepato4592]

Milk its dissonance!

[@lomoholga]

It’s a chord that omits the 3rd and contains the 5th and the 6th Saved you a tedious watch

[@2leggedpirate265]

the last part of the chord doesn't sound that good on it. there are other notes that would fit way better

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

I'm all ears. What notes would fit better?

[@kennyrosenyc]

OK, but if the 6 isn't in the same octave as the root note (it almost has to be an octave higher) then it's not a 6, it's a 13. So, since it's essentially impossible to play both the 5 AND the 6 in the same octave as the root note, unless you're playing your 5 in a higher octave you're talking about a 13 chord.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Today I learned I can do "essentially impossible" things, like playing the 5 and the 6 in the same octave as the root note, see 6:45.

[@JereToikka]

If it is on the third octave from the root, is it then a 20th? 🤔

[@kennyrosenyc]

@@JereToikka No, it only goes up to 13. Basic Music theory here. That's how you get your 13th chord, it includes all the notes of the scale. Also, he calls it a 65 chord, just saying. It's actually a 'Major Add 6' chord.

[@elwray3506]

Or, you know, you just grab a guitar and show us whatever you´re talking about.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Bad day, uhu?

[@elwray3506]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Yeah, possibly. Sorry for that snarky remark. Maybe it would have been more useful to get a bit more practical with the magic you promise. Has always been way more helpful to me. But I would have surely done better by taking a look at the name of the channel first. Lost faith in me ever getting anything about music theory long time ago. My bad.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Maybe you find music theory is hard to understand because you are missing some information about it. It's not your fault - few teachers on the 'net go through the basics. If you want to give it another chance, here's a playlist you could watch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYSlZJx_oKmsbdE

[@thornil2231]

after 20 seconds, I am already so annoyed with your gimmicks I will find the answer somewhere else...

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Well, at least I got you started.

[@GamingMashed]

Please turn down your artificial reverb it's making me sick

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Took me years to find an ice cave that sounds just the right way, and that's how people react? ;-)

[@tomislavplaysguitar]

Lol cope