My Famous Debate with James White w/ Patrick Madrid

[@stevenirizarry9427]

Believe it or not his debate with James White made me question Sola Scriptura and has me slowly transitioning away from Protestantism. At this point I’m either going to be swayed towards Orthodox or Catholicism. Please pray for me 🙏

[@sentjojo]

imo Michael Lofton form Reason and Theology makes the best case for Catholicism over Orthodoxy. I think if you watch his content and are not convinced of Catholicism, then probably Orthodoxy is where you will land. To me, the most convincing argument is that the early Ecumenical Councils (Ephesus and Chalcedon especially) both had statements of Papal Primacy and the Orthodox churches still recognize those councils.

[@vallola04]

Lord guide us all

[@whaterfoo]

Surprised by Truth series of books is AMAZING. collection of stories of converts to Catholicism assembled by Patrick Madrid.

[@johns1834]

Having been episcopalian for 68 years, with some of that time investigating the baptist church, when I finally learned what the Catholic Church was all about, I could only say; Thanks Be to God.

[@piouspapist]

@@sentjojoYbarra, Heschmeyer, and Christian Wagner make good cases. Christian on the Filioque, Ybarra on the Church Authority, and Heschmeyer doubles down on that.

[@jonathanvickers3881]

Patrick Madrid makes me want to be Roman Catholic.

[@johnosterhoudt]

Have you come home yet?

[@margaretposner450]

I listen to Patrick Madrid on Relevant Radio every morning. Look for it on the radio. In Chicago it’s on 930am and 950am

[@websterlee7708]

Iconic debate. I still follow both men on social media. I do have a particular partiality towards Patrick and his teaching and writings.

[@johnyang1420]

Well....Patrick supports the Catholic church. Jesus started Catholic church.

[@clarekuehn4372]

I think you should link to the debate, in the description below the video. Please! 😍🤗

[@harrymann6185]

"Unnecessarily prickly"? When considering the history of the topic... not really.

[@Emper0rH0rde]

Patrick Madrid was FAR more respectful than James White

[@Emper0rH0rde]

James White irritates me, and I think he is a very dishonest, disingenuous man in what he perceives to be the defense of the gospel. But what I really want, in my heart of hearts, is for him to come home. Or at the very least, to treat his brothers and sisters in Christ, with whom he disagrees, with respect and grace. A number of years ago, White debated Harold Camping about the supposed end of the church age and imminent Second Coming of Christ, and while White won the debate in terms of content, Camping was gracious and magnanimous in spite of his grievous doctrinal errors. Even when White is correct, he is disrespectful, and that's not Christlike.

[@bradleesargent]

His sister converted to Catholicism and her testimony is on the journey home program. www.catholicconvert.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/Story%20Patty%20Bonds.pdf www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/530650768572605493/

[@falseprofit2569]

well be carful with who you condem for being tough on others, Jesus himself wasn't always nice, he always went after the pharseses and hypocrites he mocked them he went after false teacher's and exposed them,

[@Emper0rH0rde]

@@bradleesargent I have seen the Patty Bonds interview

[@Emper0rH0rde]

@@falseprofit2569 Jesus was always loving, and he was always gracious. Even when he called Peter Satan. He never set out to "DESTROY Pharisees with FACTS and LOGIC!!!"

[@falseprofit2569]

@@Emper0rH0rde I don't disagree with Jesus being loving I disagree that he was always nice to everyone and he didn't mock people what he did is good going after those fake teachers he went after those people who claimed to be from God but did everything wrong and flat out blasphemous which I all for Jesus I mocking them, I can't remember what verse this is but he once said "you strane a nat but swallow a camel which is basically saying "you worry for the small things but completely miss the main picture" also insulting them by saying " you swallow a camel which was an unclean animal to the Jews exposing them and I'm not saying this is wrong this is good to go after the false techers who are after self benefit

[@robertlehnert4148]

I listened to the debate after reading about it for over 14 years-- Madrid did an excellent job despite it being one of his first debates, the heat, and White going for the cheap shot of Liberius.

[@joefear]

Was it the same debate during the Q&A session Mr. Madrid brought up regarding Mr. White's sister being a Roman Catholic?

[@amichiganblackman3200]

@Bob Smith He wasn't speaking to his sister for years before she became catholic.

[@johnyang1420]

Regardless, his sister is with the true church of Jesus Christ...Catholic. Maybe they can talk again.

[@joefear]

My only intention was to point out to Robert Lehnert that Mr. Madrid took cheap short on James White personal life, which has no relevance to the debate. You might have disagreements but when the matters brought up during the Q&A has no relevance to the debate Mr. Madrid shouldn't have responded to it. Just wanted to clear things up, everyone says James White is arrogant. He might persist that way, but why can't we think he is very passionate in what he believes.

[@ttshiroma]

Mr Madrid got smoked clean out of the building! Please don’t even pull these Trump type victory laps!!! Lol

[@jonjensen6745]

I've been listening to the debate today and one thing that they debated on was the infallibility of the Pope. To preface, I'm not Catholic, but I think I have largely misunderstood this doctrine and I think many other people do as well. I think many people consider that to be infallibility in doctrine AND humanity. But the Pope and several others have admitted to personal mistakes and have asked for forgiveness. I think I can confidently say that the Catholic church doesn't consider the Pope to be perfect, but that God removes the possibility of him be fallible in doctrine to his church. My church holds this same belief honestly. I think many others do as well.

[@loganrieck4750]

This is correct, the Pope is only infallible when teaching faith and morals from his chair. Otherwise he's as fallible as you or me. I'm happy to see you saying this, a lot of people have misconceptions about what the Catholic Church teaches and refuse to believe what it says it actually does teach. If we're gonna disagree let's see each other correctly. God love you!

[@Justas399]

Logan Rieck how many times has your pope’s spoken infallibly and for what?

[@loganrieck4750]

@@Justas399 Since defined? Once since it was formally declared at Vatican I, for the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin. Before the formal definition of Papal Infallibility was the Immaculate Conception as well. These, of course, were nothing new and agreed upon by the church already and were raised formally because they were ancient traditions of the Church; that is, the Virgin's sinlessness and Assumption.

[@Justas399]

Logan Rieck only twice? you would think that with such power the popes would have used his authority through the centuries to give Catholics a firm foundation for their beliefs. Reminds me of the problem with its claim to be the only authority to interpret Scripture correctly but has never done so. Btw- I’m sure you know the apostles never taught Mary’s assumption nor her immaculate conception.

[@loganrieck4750]

@@Justas399 Well, the Blessed Virgin was alive during most of the writings of the Apostles, the sole exception probably being St. John's Gospel and Apocalypse and the latter we see the beautiful woman giving birth to the child that will rule all nations with a rod of iron. As for her sinlessness, St. Gabriel attests to that in St. Luke's Gospel. She is "full of grace" or Kecharitomene in the Greek. Highly favoured' (kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of charitoo and means endowed with grace (charis), enriched with grace as in Ephesians 1:6 . . . The Vulgate gratiae plena [full of grace] "is right, if it means 'full of grace which thou hast received'; wrong, if it means 'full of grace which thou hast to bestow' " (A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 14) "It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament). Usually the Pope works in conformity with the bishops of the Church as he ought to. These particular dogmas are well attested to early on and by the Church Fathers.

[@neojaw2192]

This virus thing is transforming all you guys! Matt looks like a savage viking and Patrick looks like a wizard! You only need a DPS and you’re all set for a dungeon! 👍

[@Catholic1391]

World of Warcraft

[@lexodius]

James white poisons the well in every debate video description on his alpha and omega ministry channel. In debates you can see see this condescension clearly shine through. I invite you to check it out and see if that feels fair and genuine. I don't know if you can be too humble, but Patrick might be it.

[@grishabolkvadze4641]

I agree. When Patrick said he wouldnt do those things now referring to his "prickliness" during the debate and that James White would probably feel the same way, I thought of recent videos by Dr. White and dont think he feels the same way.

[@dyo510]

Thank you for having Patrick Madrid in

[@randycarson9812]

In his recent debate with Jimmy Akin on sola scriptura , White obviously abandoned his reliance on both 2 Tim 3:16 and perspicuity.

[@fantasia55]

"Orthodox Presbyterian" ??

[@PInk77W1]

LoL. They make up names on the spot

[@therapper000]

It's a real denomation, anyone can create a Church in the protestant world

[@vincentsheridan284]

Whites oratory and fast counters give many people the impression he wins his debates. However, he will misquote his sources at times, and not grasp the real catholic position. In 40 years and counting, of watching debates, I am concerned with his lack of conversion to the Truth. Please pray for his heart to be opened.

[@mikky4712]

James White thinks that he is the new Martin Luther. His arrogance is condescending. He think too much of himself. He believes that he is the Pope of the protestant churches now. He uses his debates to make himself relevant. Quite frankly, he is very annoying.

[@johnyang1420]

Nor only is White annoying, he is incorrect.

[@Akihito007]

It only appears arrogance when White actually knows the Bible and can read Koine Greek and Hebrew and argues out of the Bible while you papists can only say, "But Rome says...But Rome says" while using age old forgeries to back up your false doctrines and heretical Mary worship.

[@inedanap6253]

@@Akihito007 Wow, who taught you to be so bitter and hateful? You are willfully ignorant of Catholic teaching. A simple google search will tell you what the church believes about the papacy and Marian worship, why do you refuse to do that? You seem to be more interested in slinging insults than helping anyone. Either inform yourself to have intelligent and Christian conversation between sects, or shut up and let the people who want to bridge the gap and have a conversation speak.

[@alanbishopman]

Lost a great deal of respect for Mr. Madrid after he made much of an audience question that was little more than a thinly veiled personal attack on James White at the conclusion of their 2002 Long Island debate regarding the Veneration of Saints. A Catholic man wanted to trap White by forcing him to publicly acknowledge that his sister, Patty Bonds, had recently converted to Roman Catholicism. Instead of dismissing the remark, and leaving family matters aside, Madrid seized the opportunity to press the issue, coming just shy of openly highlighting the "irony" of a professional Protestant apologist having a converted Catholic family member. Not only does an incident like this fail to score points for one side or the other (as the debate should have focused exclusively on the truth claims of their respective theologies) but it was later made public that Madrid's own sister-in-law had left Catholicism in 1999 and joined an Evangelical church in Orange County. Hypocrisy anyone? Absolutely. At the end of the question period in that debate, White called Madrid's response a "cheap shot." Couldn't have said it better myself.

[@JulioCaesarTM]

James White speaking of cheap shots?

[@chezjowy8596]

Because sister and sister-in-law are the same...

[@chayanroychoudhury3091]

It was really in the beginning.

[@alanbishopman]

@@chezjowy8596 If you can't see the obvious dishonesty in your attempt to cover for Madrid by trivializing the significance of the fact that his brother's beloved wife abandoned the Church while Madrid billed himself as one of the top American Apologists for the Catholic Faith... You need help.

[@hellebartelsen8208]

@@alanbishopman What you write it true, but none of us are perfect and we shouldn't expect other to always make the right choices. Even if they are "famous" apologists. I have said many things in heated moments that I have since regretted. I hope people will forgive me those mistakes and not continue to accuse me with them 18 years later.

[@gracielaraya1105]

I like listening to revelantradio but when you start talking aboutpolitics and who you think should win . I think are spiritual and faith are more important. Please don't talk about politics!

[@wreckingcrew07]

And on day one of the current administration, censorship started with Catholic groups. So politics go hand in hand with Catholics. If you only knew how much money Relevant Radio lost due to a certain administration wanting to advertise on their various platforms to “prove” his Catholicism.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

That argument about the "man of God" was nothing but a strawman. It has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. No Protestant believes that Sola Scriptura means that we have infallible interpretation or will all agree. Honestly, all this shows is the lack of understanding Roman Catholics have of Sola Scriptura.

[@xtra-oi9xb]

…. Yea …… when Constantine decided to allow the new cult of Jesus followers to practice their faith without persecution many Jesus followers ran for the hills living a strict life of holiness that he commended rather than the watered down version of the established church ….

[@markcampbell8460]

Patrick Madrid is a gift from God.

[@fedesetrtatio1]

it is about time that our Catholic brothers face the threat of Islam as our protestant brothers have been battling for a long time.

[@juice2307]

We did.

[@Cesar-sd3hf]

We did it's was called the crusades and the reconquista of Spain. Other wise you'd be worshipping Allah.

[@vikingbme97]

*laughs in crusades a good 500 years before Protestantisms even existed*

[@bornbranded29]

You serious? Protestants literally collaborated with Muslims, on numerous occasions. We, on the other hand sacrificed so much to stem the tide of satanic Islam.

[@joeoleary9010]

How much does Patrick Madrid make just from speaker fees? Take a look at his website: "ONE-EVENING EVENT - Monday through Friday (within the U.S.) $3,500 honorarium, plus transportation, meals, and lodging." Many of you would be probably be surprised how much your humble servant Catholic apologists pull in every year from your financial contributions.

[@mikky4712]

It's only money compared to what we benefit from it.

[@riqqarddopv7918]

I call that ballin,

[@urieljauregui2927]

He deserves every penny speaking the Truth. #RelevantRadio

[@vallola04]

Really? Pastors don’t make money?

[@fantasia55]

That's not very much, as speakers go. Plus, he has ministry expenses and may contribute some of it to his employer.

[@TheBibleCode]

On 1:34:34 James White Destroyed You... The only thing this Catholic thing was insulting James White and with all respect James Won this Debate... (I'm Catholic) I'm sorry but James Won

[@migarza81]

Destroyed?! Patrick Madrid OBLITERATED James White decisively. But I think I see what’s going on here.... Funny how as a Catholic you sure are adamant about saying that a Calvinist who teaches error won a debate. I think you need an exorcism for putting heresy on a pedestal bud. I’m just grateful you never said this garbage in front of Saint Nicholas.

[@TheBibleCode]

@@migarza81 the only thing that Patrick did was mocking insane jokes when James if you see the question answers and even the comments within itself shows very well that James won I mean I get it your fan your Catholic or something whatsoever I'm Catholic and you have to admit defeat sometimes... Sorry

[@TheBibleCode]

@@migarza81 in front of Saint Nicholas ? Lol this is why I'm about to leave the church... You people depend on Saints , I depend on Christ.

[@inedanap6253]

@@TheBibleCode Your ignorance is showing. Legend is St. Nick punched a heretic who denied Christ's divinity. That's who he's comparing you to, not saying that Catholics rely on saints for salvation

[@TheBibleCode]

@@inedanap6253 Showing his ig ignorance accori yo scriptut... You shall love you neighbours like yourself , there you go boy.

[@milburncherian5785]

SAD,GOD SAYS THAT WE ARE ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER THE ENEMY HAS TAKEN FULL GROUND!

[@Justas399]

Dr White is the greatest debater of all time. I wish more Catholic apologists would debate him. I suspect most don't want to get into the ring with him. Sad.

[@Coastie4]

Check out "How to be Christian" on KZbin, he does a great job with JW.

[@murrax7639]

Michael Lofton and William Albrecht keep inviting him to debate but he keeps declining (Or at least just not answering). Trent Horn debated him and did very well. Sungenis debated him a while back. Is there someone specifically that hasn't?

[@Justas399]

@@murrax7639 I'd like to see debates on a host RC doctrines and claims.

[@murrax7639]

@@Justas399 Dr. White needs to debate William nowadays about the Marian dogmas and needs to debate Michael Lofton on scripture. If he wanted to he could debate Erick Ybarra on the Papacy. All of these guys are open to debating him it's up to him now lol. But do check out his debates with Trent Horn and Sungenis, those alone cover a lot.

[@Justas399]

Murray quite familiar with his debates. He debated Jerry for hours on Mary and it didn’t go well with Jerry. Never heard of those guys you mentioned except William. Listened to William debate on the immaculate conception. I didn’t hear appeal to the Scripture in any serious way for the claims. Likes to go to popes and church fathers who are not inspired. Not compelling. Hopefully he w debate those guys mentioned.

[@carlosgutierrez3971]

You lost! That’s it....

[@johnyang1420]

White lost.

[@johnyang1420]

Jesus started Catholic church.

[@cptcruncherify]

Yes we know James lost ….terribly!

[@urieljauregui2927]

@@johnyang1420 lol based

[@xtra-oi9xb]

…. Mr white clearly won ….

[@carlosc.templar3788]

Bla, bla, Patrick was just an infant and a clown.

[@johnyang1420]

Carlos is the real clown.