I don't understand neo... and you know i love you. Why dont you guys all do a 2 hour zoom meeting and come AS CLOSE TO what you think is best and work from there? I mean just randomly giving your feedback from eighteen different people with completely different opinions doesn't really help anything. Do you disagree?
@KuramaEL4 ай бұрын
a wc3 biweekly or monthly 2h round with some folks would be something I would sink my time into watching... but how to get non-english speakers involved?
@RafalZydekTV4 ай бұрын
In one of the videos, Neo shared they worked with many people from community to give feedback to Blizzard on some patch, havig calls with them etc... I guess after reforged released. Blizz threw it to rubish bin. I guess after that community doesnot want to commit to spend time on something that is wasted afterall
@winterfall_04 ай бұрын
Starts the video by talking about how different players have different visions, but the rest of the video is basically trying to convince blizzard that your vision is the correct one, by rejecting every changes by other players, calling it not necessary or should straight up be removed. Yeah, that kind of attitude is not really solving the problem with the current patch, it only adds more fuel to the fire.
@vvvoda4 ай бұрын
I love Neo as a caster and influence to the wc3 community. Undeniable. His opinions on how we should balance the game, i ll take with a big grain of salt. I ve spent a lot of time in my youth years playing the game and building maps in the editor, to take it too serious, or even get upset. Meaning that Neo, no offense, your vision on balancing, superficial in comparison to the one of pro players. Still good feedback, always welcome.
@davidc35344 ай бұрын
Agreed. B2w has been great for the wc3 community, but in terms of balance , they have done more harm than good, IMO. I for one, welcome some bigger changes as this meta is boring as hell. Pro players and grubby have waaaaaay ×3 more knowledge than the b2w community. You can watch the PTR comments of previous patches and see how wrong b2w was about so many things.
@vvvoda4 ай бұрын
@@davidc3534 I disagree. They did very well for the balancing as well, as a team. They gave feedback, they gathered from others, opened discussions. It does not matter if you agree with particular opinions or not, the overall impact was positive. I might disagree with Neo on a lot of his opinions and wished that maybe he would not preach them like the holy truth, but I don t mind him speaking his mind and giving detailed feedback. DISCUSSION IS WHAT WE NEED.
@vvvoda4 ай бұрын
He is also correct on the fact that the community does not seem to have a common goal with these balance "requests". I also agree that top level play should dictate the balance. If you re a scrub like most of us are (compared to the pro players, of course), some slim value tweaks will not affect you much anyway.
@vvvoda4 ай бұрын
I personally want things to be shaken up. I want entertainment, want to see crazy new strats, bloodlusted tauren with lightning shield murdering scores of ghouls. But that s just me.
@oo.83304 ай бұрын
It's not right when players influence balance changes, because they are biased, obviously.
@oo.83304 ай бұрын
@@Igorsov i agree, the game is pretty balanced overall, no need for crazy rework, like taurens on tier 2 or them receiving crowd resistance. Just minor numerical changes.
@Real_OSHA_Unsafety_Engineer3 ай бұрын
@@oo.8330 MG? Frost Wyrms? PotM? These folks needed a rework.
@WhenYouGoMadd4 ай бұрын
You can't just change WindRiders XP to level 3, because than you have to NERF their stats to keep them balanced. Windriders should stay a Level 4 unit, and instead they should be given an HP/Armor upgrade at Tier 3. (Alternatively, you could just make Brute Strength apply to WindRiders. And possibly even Raiders, Kodos, and Shamans too).
@Real_OSHA_Unsafety_Engineer3 ай бұрын
But dang that Wind Rider's Damage is quite high... I think their design is that wind rider is supposed to be a flying glass cannon. Brute Strength on Wind Rider Kodos Raiders and Shaman is too much... But I will concede on giving windrider +1 Armor. Windriders are like flying tomes of exp so reducing their reward down to level 3 is acceptable, they deal high damage and dps, still fragile.
@tak088104 ай бұрын
Where’s the Chinese input considering what a massive part of the game they are? Are they going to be making their own patches or just staying with old patches?
@Insomniaphxxxxx4 ай бұрын
I watched Infi's stream, so basically he said the devs only asked for his opinion on balances ONCE since they revived the game this entire time. Now he just waits for the balance patch to drop and laughs at it on stream to see how completely clueless they are. Remember his infamously 5 mins into the game surrender? It was out of the frustration of how the devs changed the creep's mana.
@TagaBearClaw4 ай бұрын
The problem with the RTS community is that THEY hate changes... like RIOT patches their every 2 weeks. Like cmon bro, change is good. this game is so dead if no changes
@garyhouser86113 ай бұрын
100%
@grottoguru64734 ай бұрын
I'm convinced this guy wakes up and chooses to be upset.
@dantonkull64914 ай бұрын
Non sense comment. Just someone passionate about the game and heavily committed to it so that he understands how a bad patch can ruin the fragile future of what is already a very old game.
@dantonkull64914 ай бұрын
@@tejeda7324only if it’s done intelligently. Rearranging your salad by shaking it randomly won’t make it better.
@grottoguru64734 ай бұрын
@@dantonkull6491 There's a massive difference to being passionate or straight up pessimistic.
@aa899494 ай бұрын
Just the german way Neo seems cool to me.
@DSJaha4 ай бұрын
Why you're calculating the old aura? It is 350 ms with frenzy, 385 with lvl 1 aura, 400 with lvl 2-3, In ptr it will be 320 ms with frenzy, 352 with lvl1, 368 lvl2, 384 with lvl 3 aura. So it's 33/32/16 ms nerf. FGhouls still will be faster than knights, dryads and mounted heroes even at lvl 1 aura.
@horderob20254 ай бұрын
cause its not enough for T3 melee units to be low armor, low hp and 12-13 damage. They should be slow as well. And T2 range dryads should be fast. No grades, no aura, 350 ms dryads is right and 350 ms ghouls wrong, Just because
@L0LDRAGON4 ай бұрын
Remove the ghoul frenzy upgrade and give it to taurens, bulls are supposed to be fast and strong while corpses are supposed to stay on the ground where they belong
@oo.83304 ай бұрын
They can't be fast because they carry massive chunk of tree
@MacLeodConnor4 ай бұрын
Lol
@FlameEcho4 ай бұрын
Movespeed caps at 400 so funnily enough lvl 2 aura frenzy ghouls saw zero impact from the aura nerf. I do think a couple things to note on MS os that the relevant numbers are often the differential vs whatever it's chasing or chased by as it determines time to close/escape. This puts the nerf at around ~30% vs 290 Heroes as a decentish baseline. That's to say takes 30% longer to catch a slow hero, or 30% less time to split against aoe. I do want to stress though ghouls are still so fast, the timing windows in question will be quite small either way with exactly the exception of very fast units like 320 Heroes, Hunts, Knights,etc. All that said ms changes are very hard to gauge impact on.
@babamama68214 ай бұрын
A 30% buff/nerf to anything is crazy.
@tanzijian89064 ай бұрын
knight speed is 350, so the frenzy ghoul only move from 270 to 350 just matching knight speed
@Khadgars1234 ай бұрын
Love you Nea, but you waaaay overreacted to the latest patch notes. Just take breath it's not nearly as bad as you said.
@ksk313374 ай бұрын
lets be glad we have (halve?) a developer patching our game I suppose?!
@4bafiafzil9994 ай бұрын
Also come with half brain cells
@hylianlegends4 ай бұрын
Have
@divayazdian84654 ай бұрын
@@hylianlegends halve 😅😂😂😂😂😂😂
@josuepereira97824 ай бұрын
Incredible how you are so adamant about keeping Ghoul fast and Tauren slow while still denying Wyvern buffs.
@009_Ghostly_Systematic4 ай бұрын
Hey neo if you see this, perhaps I can help solve the tier 2 requirement for wand of negation. I do understand the restriction when you compared it to 3 races who unlocks dispel at tier 2. Tier 2, production building and upgrade. So I totally see why this would be the case, heck I even think it would need more upgrade or nerf to the item to make it fair. So here's my suggestion. Instead of temple they can go for slaughterhouse since this building is always necessary. Or they can keep it and make the wand a weaker dispel variant like the orcs has (shaman purge single target already and walkers disenchant that requires adept training upgrade) They can make the radius/AoE of the wand smaller or the range shorter to differentiate itself with spell devour from destroyers. Or my preferred idea, make the wand of negation remove effects on the spot where the hero use it, similar to the dust of appearance radius but it dispels for a short range.
@everysigleday314 ай бұрын
Solution Part: You should also add a separate square with the Mapmakes/Hiveworkshop. I guess they are in the community inclueded but for me this is a way too important and ofter overlooked part of the community that deserves their "spot"
@Back2Warcraft4 ай бұрын
That's already the case that's why you see so many changes to creeps in the patch log :) We also sent a long list of editor / Bugfix related things in cooperation with hive
@Tayzter4 ай бұрын
Don't nerf Ghoul's movement speed. Old Blizz had a vision of fast zombies, why? Because it is fun. More decisions need to be looked at while asking "But is this fun?" Then ask "but is it OP?" and look at other areas where they could be nerfed without ruining the vision. Dragonhawks, never see them. They need that dmg buff too.
@DSJaha4 ай бұрын
They are still fast, faster than any ground unit with lvl 1 aura except raider with tc aura. It's precisely what you want, keeping them fast but not OP
@VolkannGul4 ай бұрын
they are nerfing it due to Happy. He is sending his opening game ghoul to harass some workers. Like always blizzard is an indie company and they don't even have tester teams.
@ZafrasF4 ай бұрын
Tbh I don't understand why blizzard does so much changes in the first place. That's not going to get old players back, certainly is not going to get me back. What makes players come back is new stuff, not some number changes. Maybe use this time to create some new units for the game.
@JuliaoMota-yq4jn4 ай бұрын
"If wisp survive longer, you can have more lumber." Nice approach LOL!
@erikpetersen18634 ай бұрын
A sure way to make something suck is to introduce a committee
@KorisnikBr14 ай бұрын
This is what happens when you give power to the people, they just cherry pick what they like and what they don't and then complain.
@Real_OSHA_Unsafety_Engineer3 ай бұрын
Feedback nerf is acceptable. Polymorph is interesting because of how far it needs to be just to reach poly, now open for more interesting strats, after all NOBODY spams sorceress. Sundering back to upgrade sucks but I guess that's fine, maybe make it also like the Pulverize where it has a "demo" version but deals around 3%? Control Magic, I will take Grubby's suggestion. Rifleman (Pala Rifle is gonna be fun) maybe from 10 to 15 hp. Dragonhawk... Can't say, signed an NDA. Nerf that Power building... its way too fast... Healing wards is like that polymorph case. headhunter is fine tauren 290 movement speed is quite fast (270 is for most units) serpent ward is good. Demolisher/ glaive/ meat wagon is acceptable. wind rider buff is good. most of NE buff is good Moonwell buff is extra good but not necessary. wisp is welcomed as it gives 1 extra hit from 4 to 5. natures blessing I love it. UD: 110 is decent dont touch haunted goldmine Frenzy is good, still faster than knight but not insanely fast. where frost wyrm buff though? the rest can't say signed an NDA. Firelord... soul burn nice. sad volcano. the rest acceptable.
@planetary-rendez-vous4 ай бұрын
Next time to do a community feedback together because Blizzard doesn't understand context lol.
@WhenYouGoMadd4 ай бұрын
Orc needs BUFFS to their Macro-game and Buffs to their Tier 1 units. Orc Tier 3 units /upgrades can't properly be play-tested, because they can never get their unless they skip Barracks and/or give up Map Control/Creeping.
@spheria9114 ай бұрын
Better do tanks who can attack ground, pickaxes etc than move numbers from left to right in the game that is already dead. Look at league of legends, they change everything every year, no balance at all, but still the game is alive and fun. Warcraft players (especially pro) using same gameplay patterns for ages, we need total meta and pattern changes, even if that's gonna be unbalanced, at least its gonna be fun to play and watch. The only thing that is required for this approach is patches once a few month, not once a year.
@EpicNoob8384 ай бұрын
Neo thought blizzard was going to implement every single suggested change for all races from everyone who had their 2 cents on the matter and that's why he doesn't like the way blizzard does things??? They are under no obligation and neither should they implement every single change everone suggests, it's not cherry picking it's called they have a mind of their own they aren't your personal bitches... In the first place you should be grateful they're still so generous to be working on WC3 with a few patches per year, don't act like a self-important spoiled brat because you didn't get the exact toy you wanted. If you want full control then go ahead and make your own RTS.
@forgi024 ай бұрын
You are talking about the guy who kept the game alive. Show some respect!
@EpicNoob8384 ай бұрын
@@forgi02 LOL look at 13 min mark hes so dumb he can barely even figure out the most basic math a 10 year old would solve instantly. Nobody cares what he has to say about the game it's beyond his intellect lmao
@lakrinmex81324 ай бұрын
So will the poly of sorcerers wokring on heroes be a thing in games or 1.5 sec makes it unusable and they just wanted it to work on heroes but not enaugh for players to actually do it?
@MiNoX2394 ай бұрын
neo still confused how blizzard are doing things eventhough they are doing the same thing for 2-3 years now~~. they will change the numbers and throw out the changes according to feedback given and then everything will be ok again like always.
@stunny894 ай бұрын
have anyone considered that in base trade scenarios, if players lost supply buildings they won't be able to get zepps?
@norberthiz93184 ай бұрын
I think the people who work in wc3 are not even rts players or at least not hardcore rts players, so they don't really have an idea of what to do, so they just chose whatever changes they like from different sources without having an idea of what those changes truly mean, so we end up with these weird mess of completely random changes. I think the balance council thing might work, it does work moderatly well in sc2
@07MysteriouS094 ай бұрын
Someone tired of seeing Happy on top 1 so they convince Blizz to nerf the whole race. What a "wise" and "mature" "community". UD is so OP so you see UD mirrors in tournament finals... never.
@skl-13714 ай бұрын
Doesn't "only number changes going forward" means that this is the last actual patch the game would receive?.
@trantgerfried37084 ай бұрын
They mean for this PTR iteration. The next update will be the live patch
@skl-13714 ай бұрын
@@trantgerfried3708 Otherwise that would've been worrying.
@MrNhargreaves4 ай бұрын
Lol he is out when ud gets a slightly negative change
@karpai54274 ай бұрын
Wand of Negation should cast a Ray of Disruption. I will die on this hill. I don't play the game btw.
@jaydstein4 ай бұрын
This balance council idea... if you wait for Blizzard to implement this you will be waiting a long time. I highly recommend you just organize this yourself then tell Blizzard "This is what we as a community are doing next patch".
@dantonkull64914 ай бұрын
These changes look chaotic indeed. Not much direction or vision for the game (ie risking mass air being broken and leading to boring games)
@gongal4 ай бұрын
Any plans on moving beyond the Gold league?
@fev0r4 ай бұрын
Can only speak about HS BG in Detail. But in that regard blizzard seems like they are not playing their game. They listen to feedback after a few weeks, but they really dont learn from it and pump out broken shit the next patch again. It feels like they got noone on the team who plays the game actively
@귀쟁이-q1v4 ай бұрын
FlyOrc is OP
@atonlort56663 ай бұрын
Didn't tought i would see orc fans ad ud fans crying at each other 🤣🤣🤣
@garyhouser86113 ай бұрын
In all honesty, I think these reviews and the constant whining from the community makes it impossible for developers to commit to any sort of advancement in the game. I cant imagine that there is much revenue to be had from wc3, and honestly i'm thankful that we are getting some patches after so long. There is never going to a perfectly balanced game, its impossible. It seems like they are tring to listen to feedback but at some point it become so contradictory and confusing to implement any sort of changes
Air hater. 8:45 Seriously, what the hell? Tell this to the Zerg players.
@joebloggs57484 ай бұрын
Undead might be fucked vs Orcs
@07MysteriouS094 ай бұрын
Buffs moonwells from 1.25 to 1.5 was so broken. Now elfs cry and cry so they get it back. But Blizz can't just return 1.5 so they did 1.45. Wisp life buff also is so ill-conceived. There were times when Blizzard add notes on every balance change describing reasoning behind every change. Because they were playing the game by themself. Now they add changes from "community" mindlessly. This wont end well.
@atonlort56663 ай бұрын
what do you wanted to write ? "we listened to NE haters brain fart , this nerf was a bad change and now NE mains are better off playing random above 2.2k"😂
@MaxTheDev-f6t4 ай бұрын
You always flip out when it comes to any changes to undead as usual...im tired of seeing happy and i cant wait to see what the future holds, stop fanboying
@Back2Warcraft4 ай бұрын
Mate I was the one saying attack speed nerf is meaningless and they should tackle movement speed instead. It's just fn extreme what they do
@bonaldmcscronald4 ай бұрын
Bruh how much did Happy pay you to make this video?
@xlatheblackdragon7054 ай бұрын
Problem is. Too many changes in this old game. Changes MUST come in SPARSE and not like lol or dota where game just gets frightens at every single comment and fixes things every week.
@EpicNoob8384 ай бұрын
Neo one brain cell
@Insomniaphxxxxx4 ай бұрын
I don't understand why the devs would rather listen to a retired pro (Grubby) who rarely commentates on/participates in any competitive tournament (he recently made videos about Lyn vs Happy replays that Neo sent him to counter his "wind rider is tier D" comment, and he did change his mind after watching them. It further proves that Grubby is out of touch with the current meta. His obsession with Tauren literally got laughed at by Lyn the No.2 Orc player in the world right now) than the people who are actively commentating on competitive tournaments on a daily basis? This is not meant to be disrespectful to Grubby. It's just that he doesn't always have the best idea for balances especially when he's not actively in the competitive scenes.
@Efreet9894 ай бұрын
И так уже игру на колени поставили, продолжайте в том же духе. Скоро комьюнити окончательно разделится и будет в FT играть
@MacLeodConnor4 ай бұрын
They nerf undead just cause of Happy? Haha omg
@4bafiafzil9994 ай бұрын
It has been couple of years now. You just noticed??
@MacLeodConnor4 ай бұрын
@@4bafiafzil999 they did it again .. ? 🤣
@theJuggler074 ай бұрын
They do it every patch. Undead gets weaker and weaker, Happy finds a way to overcome the nerfs but they keep doing it. Eventually Happy will probably switch to Human like a lot of other UD players did.
@millancche3 ай бұрын
Yes. Actively making race unplayable and with zero hero/unit strategic diversity available to everyone below top 7% best UD players in the world.