Happy (#1 Elo Rank) vs Lyn (#2 Elo Rank) in WC3 worldwide - WC3 - Grubby

Today is a very special day, as we are about to see the two highest ELO Warcraft 3 players in the world, go head to head in an epic best of 3 series! Who do you think will win? Orc or Undead?
Happy (#1 Elo Rank) vs Lyn (#2 Elo Rank) in WC3 worldwide (Live on 12-May-2024)
Listen to me waffle on / @grubbytalks
Catch me live all days of the week at: / grubby
Join my Discord! / discord
#Grubby #Games #Strategy #Multiplayer #Competitive #Happy #Lyn

[@andreatombesi2458]

So nice of Lyn to handicap himself using a D tier unit in order to give Happy a chance to win.

[@mrsrandommademedoit3387]

You know u are good when mass the worst unit for your race to beat the best wc3 player of all time. D TIER UNIT sarcasm?

[@P.sherman45]

@@mrsrandommademedoit3387 you should watch the other series on the Back2Warcraft channel where happy fights against wyverns 40 pop vs 62 while he has 0 income and Lyn has an expansion and recently won their last fight, killing dk and lich. guess who won that game

[@nub0rn]

even gave away a potion of invincibility.

[@umamifriends]

I see all units in the form of Grubby tier lists now

[@radiowave12]

You know the complexity of this game is astonishing. I'm glad i don't play anymore 😆

[@pistolshr1mp]

Mad that in 2024 we are still watching Warcraft3 competitive play.

[@shakohoto7901]

What's even crazier is that WC3 seems even more competitive now. A lot less people play, obviously, but the few that stuck are insanely talented with insane amounts of expierence

[@pistolshr1mp]

So happy to hear that. Thanks! The games from this era are amazing.

[@pistolshr1mp]

​​ Loved this era of gaming. There is something so wonderful about WC3 and Starcraft. Hope they both make a real comeback.

[@BelialTnTn]

This is nothing compared to the AoE 2 competitive scene. I mean I'm not really following but I don't see tournaments with 100 000$ prize pools for Warcraft 3? If only Blizzard wasn't doing Blizzard things for so long, Warcraft 3 would have been on an even higher level than that.

[@altr9666]

Grubby: "Happy is so strong!" every replay commentary: Happy loses

[@ambion19]

Grubby has pointed out before that Happy wins so often, so decisively, that the few where he loses end up being much more interesting videos overall, and paradoxically get posted way more

[@samchapermann]

when he loses its a occasion

[@ethanatkins1973]

To be fair this time Happy only needed to win one game to move to the next round of the tournament so he didn't really need to win more / try hard.

[@Tommyum]

These uploads are the best content on your channel. Top tier replays with your commentating and breaking down the game play👌🏼👌🏼

[@Beerlust_AUS]

Lyn has given this matchup a lot of thought vs Happy UD. It's a great strat working through the levels. Hats off to him for the separation to avoid splash damage. That's what I was most impressed with. Never seen that dispersion of the same units before like that to avoid splash damage. Very cool.

[@GraveUypo]

you don't watch starcraft, do you? it's called a "magic box" there and mutas have to do it to avoid being deleted by thors

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@GraveUypo Except in StarCraft 2, it works against Thors because the magic box spacing is just right to prevent the Thor anti-air splash damage from hitting units other than the primary target, while still letting the spread Mutalisks be in range to hit the same Thor. It won't work against Archons, for instance -- their splash area is too big. I think WarCraft III AoE spells also have too big a splash area for semi-automatic magic boxing to work, even though spreading by other means can still help.

[@kevin-7091]

Calling it a "desperate" strategy, just because it cannot win against Happy is a rather strange argument, considering that the strat has had a lot of success against other players If winning against Happy is the threshold, pretty much every single strategy in the game are considered desperate

@7:41 🤣 full body gaming

[@roniroukoz6040]

That happy ruler story before games made my day. To know that to be the best you need to not just have talent but a lot of prep work and effort that no one sees or knows about.

[@MartialNico]

Sounds pretty autistic, tbh.

[@Anchang30]

I got bamboozled by the length of the video, thinking it'd be the whole match

[@dan728]

Hopefully he posts the rest of the series

[@kurzackd]

@@dan728 ya, I hope so too. Otherwise, it's on his Twitch already.

[@dan728]

@@kurzackd thanks for the tip!

[@PapiDeHusky]

beautiful micro spreading poison, its non lethal but single chain can kill them all when at low hp after poison was spread they focus fire armor 3 prevent bat to 1 hit but with poison slowly draining their hp it makes it easier for the bat to kill at low hp threshold perfect counter 100% even raiders to prevent bats to coming in near wind rider

[@ninjaaljun7674]

whoah i was just rewatching a happy vs lyn game u casted the one where he went firelord bats and stuff, and now a new upload so coollll, what a coincidence lol

[@TheNME]

FAV!!!! FUCKING FAV! you mentioned him! ive been looking for him for ages now,i have my search history as proof! god knows how much i watched your battles against him back in like 2005s god... GRUBBY VS 4K.FAV!!!! in iran we used to download your replays on dial up internet god... god bless you grubby!

[@CloudianMH]

Lyn is using 3 control groups for splitting wind riders. What a revealation for warcraft 3 players 😂

[@kurzackd]

for *ORC* * players, you mean. ;] .

[@brunospasta]

I could listen to Grubby all day spitting out WC3 anekdotes :D

[@radoslav2913]

So fucking beautiful to see an undead player lose to a hard hero focus regardless of having a DK that for some reason has enough mana for about 8 coils.

[@johnr598]

Happy had it all figured out. Rush orb, fiends and statue. That's it. Every game he'd win with the same build. Dude's digressing. Not a single fiend was given that day.

[@WhoKnowsWhatTheirDoing]

Well this is a treat. Lyn vs Happy. Have not seen Lyn play in a long time. Blizzard wouldn't dare delete Taurens, they are one of Orcs coolest units. I can hear all the voice lines from the Tauren in my head right now 😂Boo Lyn for suggesting to delete Taurens 😆Nice color shirt 👍 7:40 LOL funny impression 😆. Interesting about Happy getting his ruler out to measure before he plays. I have always had a bad taste in my mouth from Happy. After having watched you stream and speak highly of Happy, I decided to go check him out on his stream. I wrote something along the lines of hello I watch Grubby play a lot and he speaks highly of you and I pointed something out that was happening in game while he was *leisurely watching a replay. Crickets.... Im the only one typing English because I don't know Russian. Maybe he was thinking along the lines of USA vs Russia or something I don't know. That didn't even cross my mind. I wanted to get a feel for how he was as a person. Completely ignored.... So every time I see him play vs someone I root for the other player 😆 Childish I know 🤣. Nice win by Lyn 😆🤣😂 Well at least now if you face Happy you have more options for victory. Your main Orc with Wind Riders or Human with siege tanks. You could tell Happy was so mad when Romantic beat him with siege engines. He steam rolled him 🤣

[@njdarda]

this is an amazing display of players' skill and depth of the game

[@bobhogan8210]

Love the commentary vids!

[@C4l4b82]

Back in time, in our Lan Party Bubble, i hated, when my best friend play windrider. It was the only way for him, to beat my UD.

[@Gomace]

I used to be a wrist player, now I'm a finger player. I move the mouse between the range of my fingers' stretch, holding it with the tip of my fingers while placing my hand/wrist down on the table.

[@kathorsees]

I used to be a finger player, now I'm a hit player. I move the mouse and hit play to watch the pros duke it our for me.

[@mariusarthur7229]

Hello, Grubby, can you try a match with only flyers?

[@zedek_]

where is game 2? Where are the vods of his stream located?

[@Nuggetheadification]

Does Happy still have that retro rubber dome keyboard? I remember seing him when he played sc2 with it.

[@user-lk6og3wd2w]

Haha, he finally switched couple of years ago. He said he couldn't get used to new keyboards. I believe you can find on his twitch channel what keyboard he's using in FaQ.

[@fluteprogressions9242]

Yessss, love these Grubby casting videos, more please!!!

[@EkzamRA]

I'm always happy to see an old game getting lots of love from its community

[@Igorsov]

22:05 Totally wiped the whole UD armory and heroes without a single chance by a tier D unit…😅

[@moldeddough2879]

Always a good day when there’s a grubby content :))

[@reishiki8682]

Personally, Taurens reminds me of SC2 Ultralisks, basically just bulkier zerglings with splash damage but is a beefy damage sponge... Problem is, spellcasters ignore Chitinous Plating & Carapace upgrades (Disruptor balls, Psi Storms & Steady Targeting/Snipe from Ghosts)... Unlike in BW where the only kill threat against it is usually Irradiate (which also threatens your bio balls), mass Siege Tank + Spider Mines (mech is risky vs Zerg)... and Defilers exist. If Orc had a defensive spellcaster or spells then Taurens might get some value beyond being a bulkier Grunt with an optional splash attack tech.

[@bachtranlequan1806]

Couldnt said it better. Ultimate zerg unit but dies to any same tier casters n takes 10 years to get in range, provided that theyre not stuck somewhere along the way... The meme unit thats only lose players the game.

[@ernestomarcos0103]

Considering both players have amazing micro, what could Happy have done differently? The most straightforward answer is to attack earlier to prevent the mass Wyverns but I'm not sure he ever had the population to delay him for too long. It seems like his strategy was doomed from the go, even if he did play really well of course.

[@mrsommer84]

20:53 I look into into the fortune teller's crystal ball and it says: "Grubby will play with wyvern again." Grubby ten times before in previous maps: "I will never play wyvern again!". And on 22:40 Grubby admits: "This will be on the test!" :-)

[@kurzackd]

haha, he meant it in a different context, as a joke! :) Don't look too hard into his words... :) .

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Looking forward to seeing the other 2(?) games of the series. Edit: I see that one just showed up. If you're going to get rid of Tauren units, then make Tauren Warrior Hero out of the ashes (this would be different from Tauren Chieftain). This is part of my idea to replace some problematic units with 1 new Altar hero for each faction that is only available starting at Tier 2 -- so Siege Engine Hero replacing Siege Engine unit for Human, Mountain Giant Hero replacing Mountain Giant unit for Night Elf, Tauren Warrior Hero replacing Tauren unit for Orc, and something similar for Undead (maybe Abomination Hero?).

[@clockwork1376]

Zenith and nadir are the more formal or more exact words for peak and valley/trough, just fyi :P

[@dark3031]

This was indeed, almost exactly the same build as Grubby's 20 years ago, except Lyn didn't build a single tower. However I wonder what was Happy thinking to not have a single fiends this game?

[@ambion19]

Good question. Would love to know what Grubby thinks Happys thoughts were. If I had to guess, I would think it's because Happy was predominantly relying on heroes to fight wyverns, and once orb is on dk web they're equipped to do so. Web adds very little when 2 heroes shoot up at range but have to go melee to anything webbed. It still might have had some value in disrupting Lyn's movements, but perhaps not enough to justify the costs, production time and food

[@kaelansong3521]

Fiends get hexed to death in the mid game prior to t3 too easily, and you still need to invest resources for web upgrade as well. Hex has less value on ghouls/gargs (cost reasons) and easier to recover from potential mid game losses

[@nightyonetwothree]

reachiung t2 ud have to instantly queue t3 to access destroyers asap to not die to hex+wolves. So Ud have limited time of crypt production for fiends+web (graveyard placed after t2 started, so it would be usualy done ~t2 finished). Yet, going fiends +web didnt make any advantage as hex and wolves hardcounter them, even wyverns just outmass fiends at this moment (orc's t2 is much faster and there are 2 of beastiary vs 1 crypt also). Also, producing few gargs forces orc to make few bats, sowing orc's creepspeed (bats creep much worse than wyverns). Even gargs are expensive trash unit, it's still better to make few just to slow creepspeed of orc (levels and gold from creeping and selling drops). Even in 50+fights, fiends are outnumbered by wyverns and also are easily focused by them +chainlightning. I think fiends are nice later transition if ud able to secure 1 base vs 1 base game and at least 40% of map creeps. Overwise it's just all tempo into t3+orb+dispel+alchemist and creeping to 3-3-3 (coil2, nova2, acid2) and there is no time and resources for web tech and fiends.

[@Pchel128]

Also fiends are slow, so orc can lame you to death.With gargs and destro you will creep faster

[@Bigassboya]

Yeah, seemed like the adequate answer

[@game_jinx]

good morning gamers. rts is awesome. thanks for playing harstem

[@fluteprogressions9242]

Would it be too OP to make taurens tier 3 and have an upgrade to make them magic immune?

[@paxconsciente3352]

flash also did the ruler thing and is the GOAT, ruler required to be the goat confirmed

[@trunnellstaverntales6228]

Wheres the rest of it??

[@reakdx8692]

I noticed the agility tome gave armor 4 to 5,was it really an accident? Maybe he values it higher?

[@nightyonetwothree]

agility grants 0.3 armor, but UI displays only integer numbers, so there were porobably ~4.8 armor and get to 5.1 after pickup. If i properly understand what you ask for.

[@MarshalStockton]

lmao the KR mouse range of movement shocked me too when i first saw KR FPS pro players, they are out there accurately whipping their mouse around🤣

[@DimitrisAlisafakis-vb7jw]

Being flying and ranged has always its advantages. You should mention those advantages in the Tier list. For example, WR can free farm golems. Gryphons cannot.

[@Dji-gurda_Jdi-druga]

You don't need high APM to pass items quickly. You just hold shift to q commands.

[@ptakleo]

I love the Lich's death sound ngl

[@WhenYouGoMadd]

This Wind Rider strategy Lyn is using will only work against Undead and maybe Night Elves. Undead has options though with CryptFiendswith Webs and Gargoyles.

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

Well happy did use gargs no fiends though

[@blubobo99]

I guess Happy was experimenting to see how static his destroyer build could be against mass wyverns. Every time i see grubby do this orc strat, he always tries to use wyvs early and he loses a lot on healing them back up or straight up losing them. So the orc play is to straight up not engage with opponent until a mass is created unlike how grub will play it. And undeads overall mistake here was not going aggresive enough on the anti air front. Triple ud heros can handle 20 pop air which we usually see in games with smaller maps, but cant tackle 40+. But yeah, overall boring game because both playera decided to not clash, but interesting info can be drawn out. Guess magic shell banshees instead of destroyers would also be a lot more useful...

[@attention_shopping]

takeaway: windriders - never fight, creep but run away, mass high pop

[@josipmarasovic2436]

Where is game 2?

[@Taznak]

Antonym of power spike = power trough. One of the definitions of trough is "depression, low point"

[@ahmadzone3445]

Wheres part 2???

[@icastmoustache9387]

"It's a tankless job" -Grubby 2024

[@fordelone]

The moment u realise grubby watching a replay has more APM than you playing the game

[@dimitaraleksandrov6381]

Haha, wyverns vs Happy, this is never going to.. WHAAT!?

[@micahlarimer155]

why are tomes so often missed and left on the ground? I see that on seemingly every other grubby video, where a tome is left for several minutes.

[@ratomorto5]

Give Taurens the Endurance Aura. Give TC Pulverize. 😂 - Taurens back to T3; - Taurens now have EA level 1; - Can be upgraded to level 2; - TC has Pulverize level 1 and 2; - Also, can have it level 3. TC would be a fighting beast and you'd always go T3 for the aura.

[@dark3031]

Also I think Blizzard messed up the Orc Endurance Aura and Undead Unholy Aura. Like if you think about it, wouldn't it make more sense for Endurance Aura to have life regen instead of attack speed? It's more endurance that way. And it makes a lot more sense for Unholy Aura to have attack speed.

[@VinnyVocals]

Has shadow hunter always been agility based hero?

[@Logic-nr5hs]

yes, although he looks like an intelligence based hero😅

[@MrArtless1]

So do you think this invalidates your tier placing of them?

[@tosei91]

Those few Raiders with the ensnares are so cool in that army! EDIT: originally thought there was only 1 Raider but guess there was atleast 2

[@ambion19]

Ensnare working beautifully with that flock of seagulls

[@viktorgabriel2554]

Lyn hurts me man i love the Tauren they just need help movement speed armor attack speed just something man

[@NicklasThygesen]

7:24 np

[@morri9091]

!Grubby for president!

[@atomisten]

lyn focusfired tthe wind riders but he had 2 split groups. both doing different things.

[@4Nooby]

15:38, wtf happened to batrider?

[@Tempest_Murder]

Grubby pretending he couldn't stomp these nerds if he really wanted to, even as crypt lord first UD.

[@mackienzykahl]

17:12- Grubby the opposite of a spike is a dip

[@RichyRich2607]

And the opposite of dip is a filling.

[@ryanshaw9301]

And the opposite of a filling is a cavity.

[@antoniojosevicentegelde3329]

5 minutes and 1 comment? This channel goin up

[@todorparushev229]

15:38 WTF how did this bat rider died (0.0)

[@limebear4826]

Scout and Counter by a tower push by ud. Ez.

[@hzlhzl]

WHERE IS GAME 2

[@R3stor]

It's shame that they didnt invent rewind funcion in replays in Reforged.

[@Karim-ik5ij]

Anyone know why Grubby stopped playing Dota?

[@vivalavida741]

I've always played wind riders like that in fights - just attack ground and let them do the work with poison, instead of me focusing, they just do a better job 😃

[@samchapermann]

It would be good if we know how much food they had in last fight..

[@kurzackd]

2:15 -- naaah, Gгuб-mate... The aco was CLOSE ENOUGH to the creeps so that they just *ATTACKED HIM* out of sheer AI that's coded into them... This had *NOTHING TO DO* with the months-ago discovered repair/unsummon worker commands that mess with Creeps... :P .

[@simeontodorov8657]

Grubby can you still compete with them? Do you think they are much higher skill level than you?

[@lalsaksjdhfggggs]

Best caster

[@MichaelAnderson-py1ej]

Honestly sooooo much better than Neo!!

[@stevepwn]

neo is annoying. he just screams in a high pitched voice.

[@Igorsov]

Grubby, you should know by now…it’s not about a unit or a race it’s all about in who’s hands that unit or a race is.

[@mrzarter4227]

Neo is the best!

[@CrazyAmandaFace]

why happy didn't make a spiders?

[@Instaqixx]

Lyn is incredible

[@jonathandunbar7721]

goooooooooooooo

[@gloucestergames3418]

UUNE DABOOU 🦅

[@CloudSephiroth]

Who is the best of all time? And is Grubby in top 10 of all time?

[@Igorsov]

14:50 What does it have to do with who used to play it? It’s a common sense to have armor upgrade versus superior air units like Bats. It’s,like when you play Heroes of Might and Magic III game and you hero is a caster, you go for the armor upgrade so you could last longer and cast more spells. Pretty simple for Orc’s units too, for bats you want attack upgrade and for wind riders you want armor. Since it’s hard to have both at the same time, In this situation you also want armor for both units.

[@Mattmt56]

Don't delete tauren!! Make them 1 less farm or something, even if HP has to be nerved a bit.

[@askarth9204]

Main points seem to be: fast tech with far seer creeping, into ww harass to keep oppo in base, into selling items to achieve critical mass and one raider for control. Really wanted to see how this strat would work woth early harass, Lyn did have 3 burrows very early, and shortly after two ww that ghouls could never deal with. It really does seem that having one fiend w web or maybe even firelord for base harass would have greatly benefited Happy

[@CloudianMH]

He 'harassed' for less than 1 minute and happy didnt stay in base to deal with it.

[@MWcrazyhorse]

Why do these pro players keep focussing the lich? Why not the DK? Every time the Lich gets thrown several coils. The DK would just go down. All that DPS is wasted, the Lich lives. But they keep doing it. Is it a mistake or what am I missing?

[@Whoisthis911]

I can't say i understand the UD logic here for insisting on Destroyers spam for three games in a row. Destroyers versus an army that has basically zero spellcasters, aside from FSeer wolves and SHunter hex and the rare Scroll of Speed. Destroyers damage output (ironically) even with their Orb is rather mediocre for their 5 population cost. And they take DOUBLE damage from Wind Riders, so instead of 850 hp they got a miserable 425 hp vs WRiders. Overall feels like they perform extremely poorly vs WRiders.

[@ambion19]

Hex is I think non-negotiable. You cannot allow your hero to sit there for the full duration of a hex whenever the orc chooses to cast it.

[@kinggarithos888]

wouldn't a pack of 10 crypt fiends just win the game? why can't pros ever move off meta? he would've known he was going wind ryder too because of the lack of units being produced.

[@edwinpoon]

Wind Riders won...

[@NcuevasB]

You are over-analyzing the windrider climax fight, it was decided at the very beggining when the gargoyles died to the bats. Undead didn't have enough firepower against air after that.

[@ilevitatecs2]

The “night elf players are just smarter” sarcastic joke is so backwards it’s actually comical. Night elf, starting at a decent elo, is almost exclusively strategy. Cannot play 1 base at all, have to interrupt creeping of enemy 2nd hero, cannot let get second base up, and have to have perfect defense for timings. Very backwards to think otherwise but good bias coming through as usual and the army of trolls nod

[@JarmamStuff]

Night Elf playerbase confirmed the Terrans of Warcraft 3

[@ilevitatecs2]

@@JarmamStuff not really too interested in anecdotes, more so analysis :)

[@kurzackd]

As a UD, I've always thought that this particular Orc build is *TERRIBLY* imbalanced, practically ever since it's first been seeing use back in like 2004-5. Personally, rather than Happy's method, I've always preferred simply MASSING Fiends and then either Panda or Pit Lord 3rd, for Haze/BoF and Howl respectively. (PL *CAN* be coiled, btw) Problem's 2 things tho: With my method, you 1) Lack mobility, thus Orc has free reign to lame / harass / tower many expos / outcreep you, etc. *AND* 2) you spend SO much $$ on ALL upgrades. Both these factors will result in a situation where the Orc is eventually BOTH ahead economically *AND* has higher hero levels. Happy's method counters both these problems, but it requires *INSANE PRECISION* and *VERY* careful and gradual play to make work *PLUS...* *...PLUS* if the Orc catches you with your pants down at any point before you get your final configuration of units / heroes / items, *YOU'RE DEAD.* ... ... because at earlier stages you only have ghouls and mb 2-3 gargs. Whereas if you go fiends, you gradually build them up and can fight ANY time if you meet. . *ULTIMATELY,* I honestly think that the biggest problem in the entire situation are *NOT* the Wind Riders themselves ... ... -- *it's the INSANE UTILITY of the **_Shadow Hunter_* 70-mana hero-kill spell and 90-mana Healing Scroll ?? (actually, *STRONGER* than a heal scroll) ... And on a hero who *NEVER* has mana issues anyway... Who *EVER* thought this up?? :( Hex can be dispelled, alright, but good luck keeping your destros alive for long enough... (protip: *You CAN'T, if the Orc knows what he's doing.* ) btw, if you think me weird for saying that, let me jus tell you this: DeMuslim (the British *_Human_* player) once stated in interview that to him, *SHADOW HUNTER* is most imba hero in the game. Go figure. ----> ... :) . *P.S.* What is more, I actually think that Lyn *did NOT AT ALL need to sell his items* like he did at 12:20. Honestly, what's the point? A little buffed-up heroes are *MUCH* better than the 2-3 extra wyvs you get from the gold acquired via selling. I honestly think this move actually made him *WEAKER* , not _STRONGER_ . :P .

[@stephengalland5535]

Spoiler alert comment.

[@brunospasta]

I could listen to Grubby all day spitting out WC3 anekdotes :D