My Problem with Dialogue Boxes

[@HackerDragon9999]

"I can talk blahblahblah" "Blahblahblah" "Shut up" 10/10 conversation

[@Geckoreo]

sound like it could be the internet

[@That_One_Guy_Who_Asked]

@@Geckoreo Could be? Bro that just straight up IS the internet

[@Geckoreo]

@ true

[@ryans-archive]

I'm reminded of that one clip where Kermit explains why it's okay to see the puppeteer. The puppeteer sets Kermit on his lap and makes Kermit say something about all the attention being on the bright green frog, so you don't really pay attention to the man just behind him. And he was right, because I didn't even notice until Kermit pointed the puppeteer out. I think you may be overthinking this just a little bit.

[@ToaderTheToad]

That's a perfect example. I think de-emphasizing the emotionless OW sprites is much better than wiping away them and their provided context completely

[@genericname2747]

The man is just Kermits tech guy, he's keeping an eye on his mic

[@Arkylie]

@@ToaderTheToad Hmm... yeah, I could see, like, making the overworld sprites more transparent or greyed out during the dialogue. That could totally work. (Could even, during a humorous section, have the overworld sprites do something meta, like getting impatient at the dialogue happening too long, or sit down and start eating a bento. Once you've trained the viewer/player to ignore an element, it's perfectly possible to make use of that attention lapse in strategic ways, and that's surprising enough to get good laughs.)

[@Eyepokai]

I think Deltarune utilises this kinda thing really well, with dialogue portraits for most text, but also having the overworld sprites emote as well in a lot of cases. But also, you could do something like Ace Attourney, where once you talk to someone, a detail image of their upper half shows up, covering most of the screen, with that emoting whilst covering the overworld sprites.

[@Uncon_Arts]

Honestly, I really enjoy the back and forth arrow style dialogue. I imagine a good way to cover the screen is to add a multiply or darker overlay layer (or even a lighter one) and maybe include a grid pattern similar to your videos to obscure the background (without covering it completely)

[@snasnu.tdealer9611]

Yeah the design they settled on here definitely _works,_ but I think this would look a lot better

[@DexyDaddy]

Strongly agreed! It looks great and doesn't feel bland, it feels appropriate thematically, and especially would with a subtle grid maybe scrolling across the bg

[@PatentPended]

This!!

[@aykarain]

yeah!! it looks so much better

[@FelixHelixihare]

A thing you should remember that the dialog box is more than a vehicle textual information. It can be more than that. It is also a canvas that can be manipulated to convey a whole load of emotions. Red vignette to imply anger. Blue vignette to imply sadness. Shaky text to imply panic. Small text to imply whispers. Font type to imply character traits such as serif for posh folk and monospace for robots. A cracked background to imply hopelessness and despair. Charms and stickers to display character interests. Horror is intensified when it seeps into the UI. In a certain way, UI separates you from the game world. It is a barrier, a middle man. But if the UI also changes alongside the game (even something as simple as the main menu background changing as you progress), the UI then feels like its part of the world, that there is nothing that separates you from the game world. You control the UI, the UI is part of the world.

[@highjinxxed116]

Well said!! Playing around with the UI and making it feel dynamic can be a lot of effort, but I'm certain players would notice it and love it

[@FelgoTheMighty]

Katana zero does this incredibly well, plus allowing to straight up interrupt people

[@Arkylie]

Oooh, yes. Thank you for pointing this out! It's a factor I knew, but had not been thinking about while watching this video. There's a lot of comic-style tricks you can use to emphasize the text. And yeah, some of the creepiest games are the ones that start messing with your GUI in subtle ways.

[@InkerRopes]

@@Arkylie true.

[@man-o-valor]

I don't mind the overworld characters not changing expression, is been done in other games and I don't mind it at all

[@XplosivDS]

Yep, I think he's exaggerating the problem a bit

[@Kio_Kurashi]

Yeah, persona comes to mind immediately.

[@todesziege]

Even if it's jarring at first, you get used to it quickly.

[@XplosivDS]

If he manages a good solution that doesn't put a lot of extra effort on him then great tho, curious where he will take the project

[@Rashicora]

Lowkey, not having a blank face is not a bad thing. You might wanna look into how ace attorney does it :3

[@iridophorium]

I think Edgeworth Investigations might be a good example to look at too? It has most of its character expression with the dialouge box with portraits and the blank-ish sprites in the background. But sometimes they're animate the sprites in the background too, with a few premade sprites. (Deltarune does this similarly, but there is more custom animations for the sprites that fit special scenes. Like at the end of chapter two in the lightworld computer room there are some Susie sprites that are just for that scene. It's like what Edgeworth Investigation does but with a wider scope, and as a solo game dev you gotta watch out for scope creep! So. Just said this to give examples of the same concept with two different scopes of the same-ish dialouge system :D)

[@SuperCaleb283]

Double recommend Ace Attorney, but I also think the Professor Layton games could be useful references.

[@axolotlinabucket1287]

ace attorney is visual novel adventure game with set number of characters in each chapter, not counting reoccuring characters ofc, that's why the sprites are so detailed.

[@henke37]

Ace attorney is leading in dialog boxes, but not in that way. They do everything *except* the actual dialog box image and positioning. They do a lot with the text itself, constantly changing the speed and adding tiny pauses.

[@DiegoHernandez-sb3fc]

ace attorney style>>>>>

[@lesliejacoby9137]

"I can talk. Blah blah blah." Hold!! up his writing is this fire ??? 🔥

[@Izzythemaker127]

Blahbalahla blah balhab

[@De_an]

It's crazy that n0Rtist wrote literal poetry for placeholder dialogue.

[@lesliejacoby9137]

@@De_an I need a movie just for this piece of dialogue to be said by like Chris Pratt

[@TheDexplorer2011]

@@Izzythemaker127shut up

[@docalpaca]

"Shut up"

[@yaboisam3058]

Honestly, I think the back and forth arrow dialogue boxes (5:42) are the best (out of the ones you showed). It's unique and fun! Covering the whole screen feels like a bit much. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it makes me feel like I'm missing something important in the background (even if nothing is actually going on).

[@sondrekileandersen2901]

To be honest, I think covering up the whole screen with UI removes the characters from the scene. This setting is a really important to understand the situation they are in, which is why most games keep the world visible during dialog.

[@theshuman100]

for instance a dialogue box might obscure a giant enemy waiting for the moment the dialogue stops

[@TrueLadyEvilChan]

I love Metaphor ReFantazio but gosh that UI is everywhere.

[@GooseBibleTunes]

Yea... Quarter of the screen? Yea! Half the screen? If it's done right! Most of the screen?... No, not at all

[@GooseBibleTunes]

​@@TrueLadyEvilChan Metaphors UI is stunning

[@sondrekileandersen2901]

@GooseBibleTunes The only game that comes to mind with a fully covered dialoge screen, that works, is Metal Gear Solid. Not sure why it works so well though, might be nostalgia, and a sense of claustrophobia

[@TheGreatOwlMaster]

I feel like the panel design that takes up the entire screen makes the game feel more like a mobile game since the ui is so large, and it hides the environment so it feels completely disconnected. If I were to do this, I would probably use the "implied arrow" design at 5:43 but smaller and at the bottom of the screen, and make the overworld sprites show less emotion or have seperate sprites for the head and body, so you can animate one without touching the other

[@PhantomThiefXI]

You could use dialogue coming out of different communication equipment thats fitting for the speaker like a gramophone for older people, radios for adults, smartphones for children, and then you "express" feelings by distorting the equipment in cartoonish fashion, or using different speech bubble shapes (when having an intimate secret conversation, the dialogue comes out of cups with a string on them; thatd be really cute) This is the most unique style fitting for your games theme I can think of, if you think it isnt STEM enough, i apologize for the misfire

[@Bownimations01]

That sounds so fun tbh

[@Terms-on-Dragon]

I would say the arrow dialogue at 5:42 is a unique and stylistic way to portray a conversation. Although it is not large enough to cover the characters from it's position entirely, shifting the portraits and arrows upwards enough will achieve your goal of hiding the characters in dialogue.

[@Stephen-Fox]

UX is such an important, but under discussed, aspect of game design so glad to hear you're giving it some consideration. Love the stylization of the diagonal panels - Very stylish, but I'm not sure it would be good for Major Story Beats - It feels like a fantastic choice for something in-between reading a singpost, getting directions, or talking to a Youngster who's about to pay you for the privilege of getting his pet rat sent to hospital, and the equivalent of cutscenes in larger budget games where a comic book approach might work better, so you keep the sense of place that the diagonals lose, and allow the characters to... Do things... while talking. You also might retain some sense of place in them (which I don't know if it would bother me, I enjoy the Codec calls which completely lose any sense of place during) that I noticed some people worried about losing if you put the diagonal panels over whatever you're using for the battle backgrounds rather than a purple void to avoid anyone getting a "and now we go into the talking dimension," while potentially helping tie the battle screen to the place more, depending on how abstract your battle screen is. (Are we talking Pokemon circles, the bespoke location-specific environments of PS1 Final Fantasy games, something in between, just happening in the overworld?)

[@adamusprime403]

Expression doesn't ALWAYS have to express a characters tone, it can also be used to express a characters personality. It really depends on what the artist is hoping to depict.

[@Plightning23]

0:35 he got the moves tho

[@Judith-2001]

5:10 I’m shocked to see that character, I’ve only ever seen it minecraft paintings thought it was an original design by mojang

[@TheApoke]

lol I pretty sure it's from homestarrunner? It might be from an older game homestarrunner is parodying

[@samsungpower6490]

​@TheApoke one could say so, just a small bit 20ish years older.

[@tuopi27]

honestly, covering the screen feels like a bad idea. it might causes too harsh of a break of flow when the entire screen is replaced by a big box for the simplest dialogue as much as it seems like a silly joke, taking inspiration from scientific papers isnt too out of the question. having a little "figure 1" by the character portrait seems quite charming

[@leorick2454]

I think the arrow style looked the best, i just cant explain why i liked it

[@Gova_01]

Real with UI design being one of the hardest parts. I'm also making my own game, and designing it is being one of the hardest parts so far. The hardest one for me is the combat UI, since I need it be compact enough to not cover the battle sprites, big enough to show all the info and who is it from, and it needs to work with a different amount of characters since you don't get the full party until halfway through. Right now I'm on a very earthbound inspired design, buy I still need to work a lot on it.

[@Coltingtons]

I don't think it matters if overworld sprites can't fit a wide range of emotions. Generally players eyes are on the text they're reading or the dialogue portraits and not the overworld characters, so it doesn't really matter if the overworld sprites don't fit

[@cosmicskydragon333]

Not true at all, it is very common for characters to move, act, and emote between dialogues. Most good games have done this, Undertale, Mario&Luigi, Final Fantasy, ect.

[@fluoriteByte]

Deltarune

[@todesziege]

Yeah, we can read between the lines.

[@RetroCrowDev]

3:25 honestly I don't think this is a much of a problem as it's made out to be lol. 1. most players eyes will be at the bottom of the screen where the action/words are, so they wont be paying attention to the sprites unless you make them and 2. a lot of games ignore the overworld sprites during dialogue anyways, so most people don't mind lol good luck with the game btw

[@zfourtythree]

I see where you're going with this method, but it might work better if the dialouge screen was just a bit smaller than the scene. You could even darken the scene in the background to give it a look similar to some pause/inventory screens. I would also consider having backgrounds to show the environment during dialogue as the solid one feels a bit detached from the context of the scene. Love how the game looks so far

[@slime-vine]

the dialogue box covering the whole screen is pretty daunting and oppressive honestly. in my experience i personally prefer boxes covering the lower half of the screen with a border and portrait, that might be a good idea if you're planning on doing many emotes for your characters. for the issue of the player/npc sprite outside the box not reflecting the emotions inside the dialogue boxes... i think just removing the mouth from the overworld sprite would be perfectly fine with the very minimalist style you work in already. honestly you could probably make the dialogue sprites a bit more detailed since they'll be a bit blown up from everything else in the game seemingly. best of luck to you!

[@matthewthefunnyman2788]

I haven't actually noticed it properly till now but oh my gosh your protagonist/avatar character is soooo cute I love her, the little expression sheets you showed off are super charming

[@iridophorium]

7:08 Oh! While writing my last comment I remembered something you can use to evoke science papers, footnotes/references! There are several ways you could include these. The game South Scrimshaw used footnotes in it! You can see how effective it is to use footnotes to evoke a vibe of reading a texbook or paper! Clicking a footnote would take you to a section explaining the concept that was footnoted and then return you back to the dialouge where you clicked the footnote. But something that might be better suited to your game is maybe something like this: If a character references a concept or a character, you can add a little footnote marker, and when you click the footnote/the word that is footnoted or press a certain button, it takes you to a encyclopedia page of that thing! I mean like, the "pokedex" if a Stema creature is mentioned, or a character description page (like in Ghost Trick for example) or a tutorial menu for different mechanics that you can look back at (Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia had this). You can do something like this with plots/mysteries too, with pages about things that get added onto when you get more information (Professor Layton has this, and Ghost Trick too but that's more character focused) Of course it would be totally optional for the player to interact with the footnotes, like it's optional too look at footnotes when reading papers. You can add a little box thing when you hover over the word or select the footnote that says something like "Go to the StemaDex entry for Igneone?". like when you hover over the titel of a youtube video title in your sidebar. (I swear I have a memory of a game that had this feature of hovering over highlighted text and it would show you what was referenced, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was!!! Return of the Obra Din maybe???)

[@jacqstrappe]

south scrimshaw mentioned

[@BeansproutPost]

Great commentary. I personally love the arrow design so much! It's really fluid, which I think fits the style of your character portraits.

[@hergityf.9251]

I've always liked the art direction of the gen 5 games. The awesome cinematics possible in the 3d space while still having the charm of the 2d sprites is something that I'm really fond of and I'm excited to see how your game turns out. Even that little snippet of game footage in the test area looks very good. Keep up the great work and take your time.

[@malaksafa4074]

GAME DEV VID LETS GOOO!

[@undertraveler]

Maybe you should just darken anything but the dialogue boxes when they're on screen to take the player's focus away from the overworld sprites

[@scootermcpeanuts6699]

I think this is a good compromise actually.

[@MeemahSN]

Maybe even freeze overworld animations as well.

[@Hasselia]

I wouldn't describe the avatars of Cassette Beast & 2D Pokémon as "blank", but "abstract". The difference being that it's easier to impose the viewer's own interpretation, or emotions, onto that "vessel". Think about the difference of N's confession in the Ferris wheel, & other cutscenes in B/W vs confronting the villains of US/UM. Gen V doesn't have as much emphasis on the avatars, but on the characters interacting _with_ them. Whilst there is a lot more emphasis on the player character in US/UM, who has a perfectly detailed smile on at almost all times. This is true even when walking through the world of Alola. The camera is more often on eye level of the player character, so you can almost always see the blank, near lifeless expression in the eyes of the character you're controlling. This is in contrast to even Gen VI where the Kalos & Hoenn avatars in a more abstract "chibi" style while the camera is more often in an overhead view. Even in the dramatic cutscenes, the Gen Vi avatars are more expressive than in Gen VII, (with juuuust enough abstraction to _feel_ more expressive than the switch protags, despite them having just as many expressive animations IMO). I personally believe that ICO (& I'd even be bold enough to say Game Freak sometimes) misunderstood this, especially with BDSP. Cynthia's overworld sprite isn't "blank". You can see that she has a half lidded eye expression, with another eye covered, hair ornaments and muted clothing. With her guiding the player along their journey and position as champion, the implication is that she is more a mature and refined woman with experience for the player to rely on. In contrast with many of the aristocratic type of older women in white dress and dark hair that battle, yet seem like they'd be afraid of any ground type pokemon. Nonetheless, it's still possible to impose an emotions for Cynthia onto many cutscenes and dialogue. You might also notice I'm not calling the Gen VI player characters "avatars". This is honestly more of a (slightly vindictive) pendantively, in that "Avatar" directly means "vessel". A term from Hinduism that in video game context, means the player is in that world but acting through a "vessel" of another person. IMO, I think the characters that the players control in Pokémon were always less intended to be "avatars" by Game Freak than the player base felt. I believe the disconnect that some players feel from the jump of 2D to 3D Pokémon is both the lack of abstraction, and GF having more tools to tell the story _they want_ outside the player's control. But this section is just speculation. In regards to the U.I., the first dialogue prototype seems fine to me. The non-speaking party is muted, whilst the speaking party is highlighted with an arrow point in the direction of the listener within the conversation. With this design, you can even put an " *>* " or " *

[@anonymousfog501]

1:52 i was not prepared for mr. har har harhar har to show up

[@philiphunt-bull5817]

The back and forth arrows work better, darkening the backround is all you need to draw attention away from it.

[@albertopascari2314]

I love how much effort you place in your game. It shows how hard you worked up until now. I honestly can't wait to play the finished product😀

[@kumen5341]

Nortist video formula: -problem/topic -what is the sollution -shows example from other game -conclusion

[@xX_wiLLiam_Xx]

i really like your lineless style

[@functional200]

With some camera work you can have it zoom in a front facing manner to the npc you're talking to and have the conversations work like the player is reading a vn with specific sprites for this zoomed in form.

[@darknega75]

You should look at The World Ends With You dialogue.

[@OswaldLunaire]

I really love the artstyle of your game, you're so good at this. Keep up the good work!

[@TailsClock]

For someone making a game that's more dialogue than anything else, this was a must-watch for inspiration on things I hadn't even given real thought to before!

[@SomeNebulaGuy]

One example that comes to mind are the Paper Mario games, that include large fonts when a character is raising their voice, shakiness to imply fear, and wavey movements/colored text to highlight important people/objects, typically accompanied by an icon of said subject

[@iridophorium]

7:08 If you want stem themed dialogue boxes, maybe you can use the square pattern in the background, like in your presentation of your designs? It definitely evokes stem vibes, since notebooks for more math/science heavy subjects often have squares instead of lines. If you want inspiration, Splatoon* have dialogue boxes with subtle scrolling patterns in the background or their dialouge boxes. The patterns even change depending on what story mode/game you're playing, which is a neat detail. But that's definitely more of a purely aesthetic choice to make, while it seems you're focusing more on layout utility currently. But when you get further into your final design, this can add some nice flavor. *I've definetly noticed it in Splatoon 2, octo expansion and Splatoon 3. I don't remember it in Splatoon 1

[@maglev0789]

The diamond panel menu itself is really stylish, however I think I'd like it better if the background had a lower opacity so that the scenery is only *mostly* covered. As the top comment said, the scrolling grid you use in these videoes could be a great background for it.

[@PloverTechOfficial]

“Verity”, “Justice”, hmmm I am getting Realm of Elderlings vibes, either way I like the style of the game.

[@corpsemaggots3607]

i love that the style feels like paper mario

[@Someone-ei5ds]

THE SASS of Verity is overwhelming, I LOVE IT!

[@quashi6]

this is why I love game dev its basically "I'm lazy and don't want to do this so I'm gonna work around it"

[@mogusisfunny]

I actually thought this was going to be a Deltarune video when I saw the thumbnail.

[@mozzapple]

I prefer the arrow design rather than the big box diamond one. Even though it doesn't cover a whole lot of the screen, it covers enough to draw attention away from the background and towards the dialogue sprites.

[@WispOfSoul]

good luck with this project, seems quite interesting

[@ElectricKitty]

It's been a long time pet peeve text boxes in every indie game drawing the character again but bigger and next to it even when they are still on screen even in stuff like platformers

[@creblu102]

I personally like how the splatoon series does it. it basically reverses what you were doing, where the in-game models show expression (if you choose to look at them), and the dialogue boxes have a mouthless head portrait that doesn't change. in scenarios where there is no model on screen, the expression is carried over fully into the dialogue sounds that are unique to each character, so you don't even have to look away to know who's talking. although, there's not a wide range of emotions available this way, and this is why I don't actually recommend it for your example, but it does work very well mid-gameplay if you want non-distracting dialogue (splatoon uses full cutscenes for expression 😭)

[@AshleyAndCoffee]

West of Loathing/Shadows Over Loathing are another good example, they have a box cover the entire screen that has scrolling dialogue similar to a text game, but with small, simple face portraits to show who's talking. You can scroll up to reread things which is good since it's a game that is largely based on its text and dialogue. There's a lot of ways to handle dialogue based on the style of the game

[@raedev]

Among other methods that are used in games, there's the one where the character sprites in the overworld don't have a face at all - a blank skin tone cover - and then simply draw the face on them as a second layer. That way you can shift the face sprite around, changing their expressions and even making choppy style "animation" with it like a very simple lip sync, without needing to draw the same full character sprite dozens of times. A lot of earlier 3D games did this too instead of using complex facial animations, such as early Zelda games. Alternatively I like the arrow screen as well, although the fullscreen one feels a bit _too_ filling, I would maybe make the background slightly transparent, maybe apply a blur effect, although from what I'm seeing in this it doesn't really fit the style of the rest of the UI. Alternatively the method I think suits this style the most, you can take a page from a slightly less common textbox style in visual novels: have the textbox be at the bottom, and then place whatever character is talking _at center screen_ instead of on the respective sides, that way the custom art covers the overworld sprites! This works especially well if you add a layer of semitransparent black behind it as well, partially obscuring the overworld and taking more focus towards the art. Some games even keep all the involved characters visible on the sides and bring the currently speaking one to the center, sometimes highlighting them by darkening the other characters, to cover even more of the background. And of course as many others have said, you can also just... Keep the overworld sprites "neutral" while the textbox sprites do the emoting! Sure you'd "see that the overworld ones aren't emoting" but the focus in a textbox isn't on the overworld, it's on the text and on the expressions of the additional sprites. If someone were to see that style and "complain" that the overworld ones aren't emoting, that'd be nitpicking, and I'm gonna say if you do it about your own game, give yourself a break! I've been in gamedev for 13+ years, and most of it can be summed up as "what can I get away with and what do I have to compromise on". Don't be scared of compromises, that's how masterpieces get made instead of staying in the creators' minds!

[@lionclan4575]

UI is very important, but also a lack of it can work really well too. Take the paper mario series where there aren't portraits for any character, and yet there is so much emotion conveyed with its art style. it makes liberal use of having its character's sprites more so in sections rather than a solid sprite so they can have different sprites for the arms, feet, head, etc to have some more customization in terms of body expression, and it plays around with the camera a ton too! zooming in when its a closed conversation, zooming out when someone shouts, and playing around with it's fonts and the size of the speech bubbles. maybe it's the 2D art style, but I think checking out how that series does its dialouge might give you some inspiration in terms of how much of an UI you actually need to do what you want.

[@aedaniammx7559]

A small suggestion that may work: try stylizing your characters’ faces so they don’t have mouths on the overworld, and keeping the portraits the same. It sacrifices very little detail on the overworld sprite, but stylizes it in a way that is obviously not indicative of the character’s actual design, and is expressionless in a way that can be done within the suspension of disbelief

[@CGammer101]

I really liked how in FFVIII Squall has two types of dialogue boxes. Soild for spoken words and transparentish ones for his thoughts. They sometimes even overlap! I think it really helped with the storytelling!

[@ronnielinkinsyn5517]

I feel like a nice in-between of the diagonal ui and the arrow ui would be almost like a text conversation kinda thing. It would cover the screen enough that the sprite expressions dont matter but it would still let you see the environment. This is the first video of yours I've seen, so admittedly I don't know much about your game, but if you have different environments, you could also draw up some dialogue-specific environment backgrounds. Kinda similar to the borders in Undertale and Deltarune and how they changed based on what area you're in

[@KitKitsuneVixen]

the Undertale textbox made me think... what would the Nortist mascot look like in their Dark World form!?

[@Arkylie]

A most informative and engaging rundown of possible options! I much appreciated you taking the time to show the variations you'd encountered. If my hobbyist game design ever goes anywhere, I'll be returning to this video as food for thought. I particularly liked the style that kept the previous dialogue (have you played either of the Kingdom of Loathing games? or heck, even the original browser-based MMO, which is primarily text with some stick-figure illustrations -- worth looking into just for breadth of experience). The cartoon/manga-style one reminded me of *Phantasy Star IV* -- a JRPG I loved back in the day that used that style. (I played it a few years ago and found the level of grind/ugh-travel parts to be significantly less bearable now that I've played so many better games.) I liked the reminder that old point-and-click adventures did just stick the text right in the middle like that. And I do like your diagonal style -- it's eye-catching and distinctive. I also appreciated you pointing out that you don't need to stick to just one style! And that comes with a reminder that it's okay for the player to miss a lot of details so long as they definitely don't miss the *core* dialogue. If characters say things nearby and the player isn't paying attention or is just moving through the area quickly, well, maybe they'll see that detail on a different playthrough, or maybe it won't even matter.

[@Arkylie]

P.S. My first JRPG, the one I imprinted on as a kid and my first love, was Final Fantasy IV. And a friend got me two different remakes of it. For the better of the two remakes, it's in some ways a great distillation of the game, cutting down on the amount of pointless walking or making the player wait for the game to do things; even the dialogue has been streamlined, and I appreciate the shift. ...but it's really, *really* hard for me to get into, because (a) the 3d chibi art style clashes *super hard* with the amount of drama I remember from the story, and (b) the voice acting grates on my ear every time they say the name of the main character, because even though yes, it's canonically pronounced one way, I didn't know that as a kid and pronounced it a different way, and the two feel like *very* different characters to me 😭 But I get what you mean about how having the art clash with other parts of the art, or with parts of the GUI or the story, can really hurt a game's aesthetic. So although at first while watching your video I was thinking that hey, it's not that big of a deal if the two character sprites don't match, well... yeah, it is. Or at least it *can* be. And I recall times when I've been playing games or watching shows or even a recent ad, and the emotion from one part (the dialogue/writing) clashed with the emotion of the other part (the character art or the like), and it really does throw the viewer out of the experience. P.P.S. Go look up *Recettear* for another example of interesting dialogue portrayal. Also it's just a fun game with a really competent localization team.

[@faekmon]

00:42 the way i laughed here is unspeakable lmfaoo

[@StarBeam500]

I think you may just have to make animations on the actual characters. They don't have to be detailed, but each character in the world should have a basic 2-frame talking sprite (the first frame can be the standing frame) and some basic poses/animations like slouched foreward, sad, excited, suprized, etc. If that charecter uses them. (If your issue is just with drawing legs, not every emotion needs differently posed legs. Some may but it most cases you can probably just copy the legs across each sprite) As the artist yourself, it may be easy to just wait until you get to a point that you need a certain emotion for a character, then add it instead of making a ton and possibly never using them. Most more detailed emotions can be put in the profiles, but leaving room to see where the conversation is makes sure the player still feels like they are in the world, and also makes it easier to have world events happen without having to bring up and down some massive panel. The actual game part of the game is in the world, so hiding the world while in the story takes people away from the game and makes them feel seperate when the game and story really should go together. I don't mean to be too rude (I may just a bit) but I don't think the panel looks good at all. I think the arrow design looks really good if you move it down a bit.

[@todesziege]

Have to say your UI looks really clean and professional. Looks kind of like something you could see in a GameCube game.

[@Elephantian-joy]

this game looks super cute and cool, can't wait to see what the final product is! Also I think 5:41 is the best dialog box, I don't like when dialog boxes cover up most of the screen

[@Zeebsz]

Not sure if it'd fit with the art style you're going for, but I was thinking that turning the interacting characters' overworld sprites completely black would work around this issue, and maybe darkening the screen behind the dialogue box alongside it. I took a screenshot of the video and tried it in photoshop and it seemed to work pretty well

[@Sal_sotry]

0:44 the way the characters look here reminds me a lot of the music video for Turn The Lights Off by Tallyhall

[@niskat1848]

I think it's an overkill to cover up whole screen. I don't think that's really a problem that both dialogue and overworld sprites might be seen at the same time, considering that they have different detailization and expressions. Also Your characters are so pretty! Love your artstyle

[@maxinator7604]

Genuinely though that Figure style text box would actually be kinda fun.

[@AlphaPizzadog]

I think being able to remove the box / reduce its opacity with a button might be useful

[@highjinxxed116]

This is a fun video! I'd love to see you tackle the other 'heads' of the beast you briefly showed in your video, I've always been a sucker for devlogs and more technical videos that add a little bit of flair to make it approachable for non dev audiences (me lol) I also really appreciate all the unique visual work you did for this video! You do it for all your videos and it always looks awesome, but all of it being so topical to the discussion at hand really made this a fun watch. And regarding the dialogue boxes, I feel like covering the whole screen is a little excessive :[ personally, it'd really take me out of the game and would make me avoid optional dialogue which I would otherwise read. You say your characters aren't emotionally ambiguous enough for the detailed portraits to work, but I disagree! The overworld sprite not emoting with the portraits doesn't bother me at all. I think the overworld sprite having a slightly more expressive look, to give you a feel for the personality of the characters standing around, is a lot more interesting than having them all be blank faced all the time. A confident character having a flashy smile in their idle/overworld really doesn't distract as much as you think it does! I also feel like the characters are generally not that big and not that centered in the frame, making it less distracting. Like, in a lot of Sonic games, Sonic's face doesn't animate for conversation that happens during gameplay or outside of a cutscene. However, this doesn't make the player feel disconnected from what is being said, since you'd only really notice Sonic's eyes and mouth aren't moving if you looked closely. So maybe this head of the beast is a lot easier to tackle than you think it is!

[@dany_fg]

If you want to you science in the design you should use Lorem Ipsum, as it will generate a random length of text (within reason) in order to view both short and long types of texts. this is essential in a lot of text based UI, so that you won't be surprised when the text overflows the dialogue box.

[@Whisspence]

honestly i’ve always found it quite funny when a character in a game can be extremely angry or distressed or sad or whatever, but their model is still just giving a blank smile, it feels so passive aggressive lol

[@normalertyp5467]

keep going champ, you are inspiring

[@adamroquemore6410]

I feel like Disco Elysium has the best dialogue UI I've ever seen. Legit, if you put your text aligned vertically social media feed-style in a box on the right-hand side of the screen and let the portraits take up the rest of it, that might be the best of both worlds.

[@glauberksks8165]

The idea I had was to cover the entire screen but not with a dialog box like in the video, but rather to add a background that matches the location/route you are in, and then you add the half body portraits. (Kind of like the camera is doing a close up)

[@determineddaaf3]

I've seen some good suggestions in the comments! For me most of the screen being covered kind of takes me out of it, especially for more casual conversations, but I think it can work.

[@herothecrow994]

The idea that the fun game mechanics are the easy part and the UI and text is the hard part hits very close as someone who just finished making a game for school and couldn't even manage to finish a full pause menu

[@neo_b]

have you considered using the line art versions for like their pokedex/encyclopedia page… or like make them collectible stickers for a scrapbook in the game also wondering if you’re gonna tackle Mimic enemy & long quest to find 100~ hidden items, they are jrpg classics and pokemon has them too! Mimics: Voltorb lines, Amoongus line, G-stunfisk collectathon quest: zygarde cells, A-Digletts in isle of armor, wisps in Hisui, treasures of ruin Stakes & Gimmighoul coins in Paldea

[@De_an]

No...don't give me 100~ hidden items...PLEASE!!!

[@highjinxxed116]

Honestly I think the "find 100~ collectibles for rewards" quests are very poorly aged, and I wonder why they seem relatively recent in Pokemon games. Back in the golden age of JRPGs, the internet was still trying to find its footing. To find all these things around a game map required thorough searching, maybe collaboration with friends or locals, and if you were lucky; a physical game guide. It was hard to do, and only the most dedicated lovers of a game would go through and do it legitimately. But today? They're often just grindy and not fun. The reward doesn't really feel all that worth it either, at least in Pokemon. Zygarde cells were alright, since Zygrade 100% was admittedly cool, butttttt Spiritomb from Hisui? Like, meh? Spiritomb isn't a new pokemon, it is generally understood to be mediocre (even though it IS cool, don't get me wrong) and we've all seen it before. Hell, a lot of players probably already owned one before. It didn't even get a regional form. It doesn't feel rewarding to do either, because once I got through the main game and did a few sweeps of each area by hand, I ended up just Googling it. You could just say "well then don't!" and I really tried not to, but depriving myself of the easiest solution when I'm not having fun doing it 'the real way' just didn't seem right. Since I had to do it for the dex entry, it just became an obstacle. Swooping the map three times over because I missed two whisps and I don't know which ones. It was honestly the one mechanic in LA that felt like a miss, since the actual dex completion did feel fun and rewarding to do. I'd like to see N0rist tackle this but I sincerely hope that if it IS added to STEMA, the age of the internet will be factored in!

[@neo_b]

@ i just find it neat because both collectathons & mimics can be adapted really well into a stem themed game

[@Floflosera]

Your way of making dialogue boxes makes me think of those of The World Ends With You I think it can inspire you

[@spicyrainbows4561]

I love the idea of the scientific figures!! I probably have a bias towards them as a chem nerd, but I think it's a really creative and cute idea that I could see working out.

[@whiz8569]

I remember a quote from Derek Yu who said "Text boxes ... [are] surprisingly tricky and offer lots of opportunities to explode in complexity." They're one of those things that are so common, players take it for granted, but can be really tricky to implement, especially if you're making it from the ground up!

[@DoveJS]

I think what you have is pretty good but I don't think you have the cover up the screen that much. The player won't be paying as much attention to what isn't changing about the full-body designs, especially if the portraits are much bigger and flashier in their expressions. People who are watching someone else play the game would notice more aspects because they're not as primed to pay attention. The player needs to decide between stimuli and determine what matters based on the ever present feeling of needing to be alert so they can respond correctly. This goes down during calmer periods, such as dialog, but as long as the conversation is engaging, it WILL gather up most if not all of the player's focus and from there an entertained player's willing suspension of disbelief will help fill in any gaps too (which is why full animation isn't needed.) That said, you could also explore your dislike of drawing backgrounds and legs by trying out some small ones to softly fill up the dialog box and/or make full response images for the main models like if their entire pose changes to emphasize their response, especially if you keep the dialog box that big. As in, try to find some way to make it interesting for you. Not something you have to do but it could be a way to get more creative with those and be more memorable if for example you suddenly jump to a full body image when there's a massive reaction to something lol. IDK because I'd also be reluctant and even if you try it, you may find you still don't like it, but that's a thought if you want to really grab someone's attention. It's sort of a blend of the visual novel and that super cool comic book dialog cut-scene the kitty game did? ALSO having seen this, I'm very curious about your thoughts on BeastieBall which I found out about recently and decided I needed to have after watching an LP and trying out the Demo (and I don't play that many games these days nor do I have a lot of spending cash so it was like a Christmas gift to myself this year.)

[@Bzlaabnieni]

I’d be really interested in seeing a devlog for your project in godot, or even some of the base code! It looks SO good already!

[@trojan-not]

7:07 I actually really like how this looks

[@BeezeeChutter]

I love your art style and will be referencing it to make my own style for the art I am making for my aunts video game that she is making.

[@el_palito45]

im not sure the final approach you arrived at is the best tbh. dialogue often has the problem of slowing of halting the gameplay completely and, altough you did show some good examples of how not to have that issue, i think your approach has it. i cant give you an answer of how to do it right now, but i wish you luck with your game!

[@Vrikrar]

I think it's interesting that the ui has given you the most trouble, because the little I've seen of it has all looked really good.

[@DangerDurians]

Before movies, there were silent films And just like metal gear, dialogue in those covered the entire screen

[@LuluLotus175]

0:36 IS THAT A GOD DANG PIZZA TOWER REFERENCE!? Nice👍

[@soninhodev7851]

tbh, in the game i'm developing, i will go with the classic of a dialog box at the top of the screen, with the speakers portrait. it should work just fine, since my character sprites have few facial expressions. and also my player character is a mario type, where he can only talk in either pentamime, or, small blerbs of voice acting, but those lines are primarily used for gameplay, just like mario.

[@ianpeters4365]

Bro has a problem with dialogue boxes

[@MistaSunshine8007]

I think what you could do is zoom in really close in on the characters so you don't have to deal with the legs and only see the face and arms, not only that but it also keeps the background/setting intact.

[@TimRomero]

2:06 Wandersong enjoyer; good taste confirmed

[@sam_bamalam]

I kind of like the science figure idea! You can combine it with the Nine Sols approach with the manga piles but you’re revealing the images. Maybe remove the “Fig. 23” with the character’s name? I think there’s something cool and interesting there that you’d make work really well

[@AlX-Ander]

It doesn't work in the Pokemon games because they're otherwise lively. They're 3d and have idle animations. You would naturally expect them to move while talking. But your style and animations don't have that. It doesn't feel jarring like you think it does just to have them standing there in the background unmoving. Especially if you do include portraits, it won't matter if they're still visible on-screen. Focus is going to be on the portraits and text box anyway. It's like in The World Ends With You, when you stop and talk to someone. The bottom screen keeps all characters on screen in their idle animations, while the top screen has portraits, and it isn't jarring in the slightest.

[@TableTime45]

1:57 IS THAT FREY FAZBEER?!?!

[@abominablesnowroach]

I would suggest looking at how TWEWY (The World Ends With You) does dialogue since it’s a game that also takes up the whole screen during dialogue

[@Rato-56-1.0]

Honestly im only watching this bcuz of the undertale/deltarune textbox in the thumbnail

[@WeirdWimp]

0:35 PIZZA TOWER REFERENCE

[@Puddle_Bug]

4:45 i did not expect to see my sisters name there lol