My Thoughts On The Graduation Of Mano Aloe

[@dftheembodimentofdepressio2144]

Reminder It's not JP "Fans" They're actually an "Antis" It's so sad... It's happen 3 times already Edit: Antis: people who aren't fans and go out of their way to criticize and attack someone they don't like.

[@lordmurloc6295]

It also happend with Aqua while playing smash bros ultimate with a japanese pro during a stream, people got jealous and then *sigh* apology video

[@synapse0]

Three out of thrity is an...acceptable rate. Here's hoping it lowers further.

[@dftheembodimentofdepressio2144]

Shame on them

[@everfall8886]

Has happened more than 3 tho, but i wont bring back the dead. i just hope this small amount of antis get thrown out someway from the community, as unlickely as is that.

[@synapse0]

@@everfall8886 4, yeah. And a couple more out of the Stars, but then it's more than 34 :p

[@ImANormie]

"The smile we could not protect" -- a comrade.

[@testaccount8921]

Well the management could have.

[@CatCatCat19]

To the other 5th gens "This time will be different"

[@Dogbold-Rue]

@@testaccount8921 Bullying can actually get very extreme in Japan. To a scary extent that you think it really came from an anime as it has ruined people's lives & even their families. Try to search up stories...its fascinating yet horrifying.

[@decilence6184]

@@Dogbold-Rue Yeah pretty much japan dismisses issues , sweeps everything under the tatami , not only bullying , even serious crimes.

[@testaccount8921]

@@Dogbold-Rue The management is earning a lot of money. If you look at the numbers on playboard for example it is enough to hire private security. It just feels like the men and women they represent are being let down. Yes, I will look into more. This whole thing is so sick.

[@vthinking9518]

I was involved in the fan effort to support Aloe throughout her suspension and we are all very distraught over this. Thank you for addressing this topic with tact, it means a lot to have this kind of professionalism from the prominent voices in our community.

[@PedroSilva-ik8mv]

me too dude, that's why i'm so fucking sad :(

[@mashiroo5542]

Yep, for those who were involved in this, it is truly an utter defeat for us. We tried our best to do everything by sending messages, fanart or videos to help our little demon felt better and ready for her comeback. However, our effort is still not enough to outweight those doxxer. Truly distraught and bitter

[@jordiguerrero9633]

@@ArKhey obsessed? What makes you think showing support is the same as being obsessed? The antis were obsessed. They doxxed her ffs. To the point of almost finding her house. The community was simply being empathic. Being kind and understanding to strangers isn't gross at all.

[@jonathanvue6502]

Ar Khey the point of the tweets was to show support saying that there are fans waiting for her return in hopes to give her something to look forward to. “you did nothing wrong, it’s not your fault” that’s pampering, which we stayed away from because obviously it would devalue her decisions and she already accepted responsibility for her mistakes.

[@HumanGuyManDude]

It really hurts.. Being a part of that movement felt great, seeing so much positivity, it just felt like the hardest obstacle in the way was just the 2 weeks.. who could've known that this was the true final boss..

[@realkingofantarctica]

“It’s a terrible day for rain.”

[@ButterNCreamz]

Yep i even made it into a vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/fniyg5yhqblkbbM

[@foxyfox7627]

Oh.. so it is, why don't we head back, it's getting chilly out here.

[@RoyHikari]

( ; __ ; )7

[@Numb3r237]

It thought the same thing when I heard and now it actually is raining where I am

[@Lugia21]

Unironically it's storming outside my area right now and so am I.

[@snowykaze]

I’m happy that you actually covered this. Sad day for a lot of us. 7:04 THANK YOU. Absolutely perfect way to say it my dude.

[@nextera2621]

pien🥺

[@eechive3847]

Agreed. Just enjoy the content and play along with the kayfabe

[@upgames1313]

everyone in the community should understand this

[@_colorful2620]

For those people who love her, please check out the videos in my channel, I found some songs she left.

[@controlcon]

It's perfectly fine to want to know who these people are irl. That's just human curiosity, the problem really comes when people can't shut the fuck up and then they start leaking this shit. I mean the other day, I literally saw a video exposing lunas identity on KZbin with her name in the title. If you manage to find out, good for you. Just keep that shit to yourself or your close friends.

[@Mianless]

The fact that the "antis" were calling her HOME phone and harassing her.... I mean sure you can say "Oh no one would actually do anything if they knew where she is", but even the passing thought of that is terrifying. I can't even begin to imagine the mental state of Aloe right now, and the physical toll that having to deal with any paranoia, fear, or anything. It's truly heartbreaking that those "people" who harassed her will always see what they did as "right" and "just", and that they themselves will never have to face any potential consequence for their actions, while Aloe will have to live with fear of people knowing her home phone number, and maybe her address, as well as ruined her career within the Vtuber Industry. If she does ever return to being a Vtuber, I will 100% support her as best as I can, because NO ONE deserves to have what happened to Aloe.

[@behamyotoi575]

Its true, people say it's not a threat but it is

[@aldyzero6676]

That's how pathetic trash works in life, they loves to ruin other ppl life while hiding behind monitors and their keyboards.

[@aldyzero6676]

@@behamyotoi575 it's not just a threat but already at the scale of criminal act those antis did

[@xu3ness]

This makes me want to make them taste their own medicine, 100x worse

[@behamyotoi575]

@@aldyzero6676 I have seen threads asking for people to post faces and other information of Vtubers

[@davidespiritu8775]

2020 is the worst year

[@Ajoura]

My album will probably come out of development hell at the end of this year. Not everything is lost yet.

[@zetaabsbs2329]

Ajoura interesting

[@ButterNCreamz]

20 is officially my most hated number

[@KiyanPocket]

Wake me up, when 2020 ends.

[@steevan]

Remember , chadwick boseman passed away last weekend .

[@machich.1368]

It’s very unlikely that she will return to hololive (opinion), however, she has since returned to her old twitter (fact), but it is private. I shouldn’t probably say it, but I feel like it would give some people in this comments section some peace. She has expressed that she has been very depressed for non specific reasons (obviously not wanting to mention it explicitly) but is slowly recovering. She has at least said that she plans to continue writing original songs. I hope people can find this comment and upvote it so it gets seen. I refuse to link her old twitter until she explicitly says she wants to be seen in public eye again. Please take my word for it; I am following her on twitter. It was public for approximately 24 hours before being privated again. There are a lot of very heartwarming replies to her last post. However, that being said, *we should NOT under any circumstances try to encourage her to return to hololive.* It may hurt her even more. I will reply to this comment with any future updates. Please wish her well in her music career in the future. In her words: 色々あって消沈してたけど体調もだいぶ良くなったので少しずつオリ曲制作しています。 Translation: I've been depressed for a long time due to various circumstances, but I'm feeling much better now, so I'm starting to make some new songs.

[@necrokochou]

we're still waiting

[@StrayChannel95]

∆

[@xenodotwav]

Knowing she's doing better now is more than enough for me. I wish her nothing but the best and that's all I could ever ask for.

[@naruyuuki4334]

So i found something on my recommendation video about someone, and i feel nostalgic for some reason and very happy at the same time ∆💕

[@atomseis5474]

That gave me some peace , thanks , if she could return , I will be in the happiest state ever although I doubt it , once again , thanks for the peace! :D

[@southhill6667]

Yeah, hope all the members get the sort of support that they need.

[@kannatheweeb8836]

Lets hope so

[@thattrickytrickster612]

Aloe was truly talented, she was a great singer and entertainer, funny and truly kind. The rest of Holofive genuinely love her, and she loved them back. I was really excited for her singing streams, collabs and more, but sadly it wasn’t meant to be. I really hope she overcomes this and will be able to achieve her dreams and goals. Farewell, smug succubus. 💜

[@tribopower]

she quickly become my top 2 among Gen5 and that's saying alot, I really wanted her to comeback... the fact that this happened like this trully sucks... I wish her the best tough

[@_colorful2620]

For those people who love her, please check out the videos in my channel, I found some songs she left.

[@yannybee3707]

I guess there's no more comeback for Aloe. Even if she change character like Polka. After all, her informations were leaked. From phone numbers, to address, and even her parents. She'll carry this fear for the rest of her life. Unless she move out to some place where no one knows her, and she knows no one as well. And start being a individual vtuber. Or follow her dreams and move on. But that wont happen most likely. So yeah, this is really farewell for our smug succubus.

[@_colorful2620]

Write letters and marshmallow to Aloe. I have contacted with Chinese fans. They are gathering up as a fan group and trying to write letters and marshmallow to Aloe. We have contacted Hololive Operation. They are willing to deliver the letters for us. We have translators for us to translate letters into Japanese. We will have Joint Letters that will list all the fans who write the letters with us. It's unknown is she gonna accept them. But, as her fan, we want to do something to cheer her up, even though she's unable to work as a vtuber any more. A letter of a few sentences or 1 or 2 paragraph will be enough. If you are willing to join us. Please send the letters to me though Email. [e-mail] If you have time, please share this post to other fans though youtube, twitter or discord. Thank you.

[@Zombie-Hunter]

I really liked her debut...the poor girl didn't deserve this.

[@Steroyd666]

I think this was an unfortunate set of circumstances, she got suspended before she really made content so she wouldn't really get a feel for her audience which made coming back really really difficult mentally because the only feedback she got up to that point was harrasment. I think that's the key difference between Aloe and Towa/Mel.

[@batriam5921]

There was actually a lot of support courtesy of the M.A.S.S. (Mano Aloe Support Squad). There were reddit threads organizing the sending of supportive messages and encouraging more people to take time out of their day to do so. They even made a site with supportive messages and I think little games even that they were supposed to show to her when she came back. I'm pretty sure they were the same people that organized the same for Towa. To be clear I'm not saying to say she shouldn't have quit. Hate always seems way louder than support especially when you've just begun. I just think the actions of M.A.S.S. should be acknowledged since they were fighting the antis to show her that there were people waiting for her and that we didn't think less of her because of one mistake.

[@Steroyd666]

@@batriam5921 I have no doubt that there was a support group with tons of positivity on the interwebs to counteract the bad, I haven't been following her extremely closely but if she's shut herself off from social media for the last two weeks in conjunction to the rumours of her being doxxed unfortunately that'd be step outside the reach of MASS. :(

[@nietzchan]

The sad thing is, the hater hit's too close to her home, like literally phone her. I don't know about you, but no amount of internet kind words gonna convince me of my safety if that is happening to me. I just wish that law enforcement was involved early on and act fast to get those doxxer.. but then again Japan is historically bad at protecting idols, unless it was a death threats they wouldn't act upon it...

[@linnen_elm]

@@batriam5921 operation M.A.S.S. has failed guys... **sob**

[@Jarekx2007]

@@nietzchan Japan is historically bad at protecting anyone. You should look into why Japan is so "safe." Police work is a joke there.

[@kumo7515]

Another one has fallen... I told ya this is what happen when you bullying someone on the internet cuz they will ended up depressed,but this is what it is we can't change the past,what we can do is just hoping her for the best,I hope this thing will be the last one on hololive. So long partner. Memento Mori...

[@JustACego]

Memento Mori.

[@laurentiuslancaster1657]

Memento Mori indeed.

[@OurOphis]

Memento Mori...

[@SuperWHIIITE]

We can hope but its not gonna be the last unless idol culture either completely disappears or has radical change. Fuck all these creepy weirdos who would rather burn the waifus

[@_colorful2620]

For those people who love her, please check out the videos in my channel, I found some songs she left.

[@yogandi8922]

it's sad but we all know that her graduation is the best decision, it's just frustrating that we didn't mend the mental stress she had gone through. I never felt this powerless

[@ttchme9816]

I escaped reality into hololive to have fun, then got dragged back into it again. Reality is often disappointing huh?

[@DRUMCANJONES22]

@@ttchme9816 yes

[@elfireii328]

1:20 it should be noted, that she got PERMISSION for management to do this... but she forgot to take it down. Its likely that if antis didn't find and spread it around, management would have just let it slide. the 2 week suspension is fair too seeing as it was a small blunder. should be noted that this is also why its recommended for vtubers (by company policy) to stop most of their work on personal accounts, or to never associate them...

[@rigelothello709]

For the 2 weeks suspension, rather than Punishment, I see it more as a waiting time for everything to dies down (I mean, with the Antis and Hater). It success with Towa, but too bad, now it seems failed, and Aloe becomes a victim of this matter.

[@sigmaenjoyer7020]

@@rigelothello709 Towa has lighter case since her private life still untouched as far as i know, Mel and Aloe got it so hard, But Mel is already professional and experienced as Vtuber so she has strong will to keep going despite getting doxxed too, but Aloe beginner, she probably thought is not worth it to continuing vtuber career after this incident and the pressure from antis are much scarier than Towa's case.

[@rigelothello709]

@@sigmaenjoyer7020 Yes, I'm agree that Towa's case are lighter than Aloe's... While for Mel, I guess Cover Corp already know who the perpetrator is, so they can take action more easily, and after collecting the evidence, the police can make their move. But Aloe is kinda different, and that what make this sad...

[@sigmaenjoyer7020]

@@rigelothello709 I'm glad Choco is fine because so far, the demons from Hololive are getting harsh treatment when debuted ( Towa and Aloe )

[@rigelothello709]

@@sigmaenjoyer7020 Yeah... let's hope Choco-sensei will be fine... I mean, we almost got a pair of Succubus at Hololive, with Choco-sensei & Aloe Mano together...

[@steevan]

I was expecting Koefficient made another fun diary of simpification with coco shitpost reaction . Damn this one is heavy. * brohug koeffecient *

[@frostmourne1986]

If we're going to be honest, Cover's 2 week suspension wasn't even intended to be punishment. Breaking NDA is grounds for immediate termination. It was likely intended to distract the haters while allowing Aloe to lay low. Unfortunately it didn't work out.

[@cahsahhhhhhhn]

Yeah it was clearly an attempt to allow the heat to die down but also to allow her to continue afterwards. From everything I’ve seen from the other gen 5s and CoverCorp they were invested in Aloe and wanted her to stay. It’s too bad she didn’t feel comfortable going forward, but it’s a wholly respectable decision. It was heartbreaking hearing the other 5th gen girls so broken up about it in the quick stream they did. I hope they can move on and it doesn’t affect their ability to go forward anymore. Sadly, “thats showbiz, baby” I wish the girl behind Aloe the best in whatever she chooses to do now

[@frostmourne1986]

@Owen Yin Look man. Cover has fucked up in the past and is deserving of criticism. But this time? They handled it decently. This is not the usual "throw employee under the bus". There is a point of letting her take the blame. It serves to distract the haters. And what makes you so sure her manager wasn't punished behind the scenes? If anything, her manager more than like took at least double the penalty if my experience working with Japanese companies holds up. This is entirely a no win situation. People like you love to talk shit, like "they could have done better", yet are unable to provide an actual better solution. If you want to criticize, back your statements up with constructive ones instead of throwing useless generalizations out.

[@cahsahhhhhhhn]

Owen Yin I won’t absolve Cover for not doing more or her manager for not double checking everything, as it absolutely does fall back on them as being the ones responsible for their employees. However, the modern world of Information on the internet makes it very difficult have an online presence and simultaneously protect yourself from a determined attacker. Cover will undoubtedly reassess their protocols and how they protect their employees identities after this, unfortunately it’s just too late for Aloe. The companies rapid growth in popularity from a small VTuber group to the forefront of KZbin seems to have set them up to learn lessons like this the hard way.

[@djmary6454]

@@frostmourne1986 decent isnt good enough when theyre number 1, nijisanji is number 2 and they handle this shit 1000s of times better then holostaff does, this isnt some pokemon shit where they can sit on their ass to make money, they need to protect there employees. Aloe shouldve had a supervisor watching over her, as a new employee should always have someone to be there to help them ease into the job and make sure problems like these dont arise. let alone that, its clear holostaff havent improve their practices since it took then 6 months to actually get mel back on the job and be safe, towa was basicly put into protective punishment for a week b/c they gave into anti bullshit over male voices, they failed to support their livers when they were demonetized and it took a 3rd party to fix it, which then they gave up on streamlabs b/c it got fixed despite the fact that streamlabs was way more stable for income, and then the whole copyright strike thing happened b/c holostaff never actually asked for permission to play companies games.

[@VandalAudi]

About throwing her under the bus,... do you know the Japanese corporate culture? It is basically Karentopia, and Cover has more than just Aloe to.protect, besides their own existence as a company.

[@asdffjsdjasd]

Here's my obligatory "why Cover sucks" comment: 1. They shouldn't have approved the Live2D test. 2. Having approved it they had a responsibility to properly supervise their new employee and make sure such a mistake didn't happen. 3. They had a responsibility to help scrub her identifying information. Obviously doing this perfectly is impossible but it shouldn't have been nearly as easy as it was to dox her. 4. The Live2D leak happened I think back in April. It should have been dealt with at that time. Cover punishing her after the harassment started emboldens the antis because it gives the appearance that they were successful. 5. On that note, she shouldn't have been punished in the first place. As previously mentioned, the leak was really management's fault not hers. It would be totally understandable if she voluntarily wanted to take a break but punishing her shuts the door on a potentially powerful support network. She got hung out to dry and essentially unpersoned. For the two weeks when she probably needed support the most her friends in 5th gen were pretty much not allowed to even mention her. 6. Speaking of support Cover/HoloPro failed to make a public statement supporting her/denouncing harassment. This is the second serious harassment case they've had and they have yet to put out an official statement. Imagine what it looks like from Aloe's perspective. You make a mistake at a new job, which feels bad to begin with. This mistake leads to severe harassment and stalking. Then, instead of supporting you and denouncing the harassers your company punishes you. In general they failed to protect her. Once the harassment started it was Cover's responsibility to make sure it didn't escalate. When it escalated it was their responsibility to keep her safe and to make her feel safe . This is speculative because we don't know what went on behind the scenes but given Cover's history, the lack of public support, and the ultimate outcome I feel pretty confident saying they did a shit job. To get a bit tinfoil hat, I've been thinking this was probably Cover's intended outcome all along. There's good case to be made that actually staying on with Hololive would be the safer option for Aloe. They have the resources to help her with digital and physical security, legal action against harassers, or even relocating since her address was leaked. They might still be providing that kind of help behind the scenes but given everything else I think that's unlikely. Remember, Mel had to hire her own lawyer to resolve her stalking problem and she was still employed by them at that time. Aloe leaving lets Cover memory hole another massive fuck up and not have to pay any of the costs needed for Aloe's safety.

[@LunarEdge7]

It's all I wanted to say and more, thank you. I wondered for a long time why she isn't even relocated safely, and that they only put the model leak as her fault.

[@あきら-v7h]

I think the company did the best they could to protect her... You can’t erase what her past life was and people already saw the stream. If Aloe kept streaming, not only her but the company and all the identities would be at risk because the antis tend to blackmail Hololive... I mean it sucks and even the JP fans are pissed at the antis but feel useless because you really can’t do anything. Unless Aloe’s identity changed locations and change phone numbers (which would be a lot of money) and then also think about the identities of the other members because they have it. There’s really no winning sadly...

[@asdffjsdjasd]

@@あきら-v7h Why give them the benefit of the doubt though? Literally the least they could do is make a public statement denouncing harassment and they haven't. When Mel was stalked she had to hire a lawyer herself to resolve the problem. What have they done since then to make you think they handled this better? They have a history of not supporting the girls and a history of not improving despite promises to do so (see the copyright debacle). Where does this goodwill come from?

[@あきら-v7h]

corndog Mel has to get a lawyer because it was within the company....

[@asdffjsdjasd]

@@あきら-v7h I know. That makes it worse, not better. What about that makes you think that they would have done better this time?

[@mugen_ronin29]

We will look back on this and always wonder "what if". Wish we could have seen more. This felt short lived but is understandable why she left.

[@dlanoratardneh909]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this tragedy Koe. Like you said, it is very crucial to have tough protection for these girls so that this kind of problem does not repeat. And to any of you - including me, who know or speculate an identity, keep it to yourself. It will only take 1 slip of tongue and 1 hater to spark another disaster. I wish all the best for whatever future you are going to aim for now on Aloe. God Bless.

[@LOKITYZ]

I don't understand this "Idol culture" thing in terms of Hololive Vtubers. I understand it perfectly in terms of the KPOP and JPOP industries, but in terms of Hololive its kinda confusing. In the KPop and JPop cultures, they are manufactured people who are shaped to attain what they see as the "perfect ideal". All their attitudes, social interactions and whatnot. They truly need to seem pure. But when you look at Hololive Vtubers, it doesn't seem like their personalities are controlled at all. You'll get lewd horny jokes and silly meme situations, which is very far from "pure" and the Hololive brand doesn't seem to mind it at all. They even play up romantic interest towards each other. Yet they aren't allowed to have boyfriends (or at least disclose that they have boyfriends) and when male voices are heard from the voice chat, people go crazy (the Towa situation). But when Fubuki collabs with Holostar people, there doesn't seem to be an uproar. So what kind of "idol standard" exists for the Hololive Vtubers? It seems completely different from the KPop & JPop culture..... And it's confusing to me.

[@shiningburiza6903]

Its just hypocrisy of the antis well the shitposting and all the other crazy stuff was just made recently and it was presented to be an idol group so this are the consequences they are going through

[@ロロノアゾロ-h4m]

Hololivers are meant to be idol anime characters. Just that. They're not meant to reveal what's underneath that persona. Look at what happened to Towa, she almost revealed herself after accidentally opening her camera while on livestream with Kiryu Coco and the JP fans went wild. They can eat on stream, talk to other Vtubers, describe what's happening bts, but they're not supposed to actually reveal any information that is out of their character. They might look like they're doing whatever they want freely, but they're actually closely guarded by the staff at all times.

[@LOKITYZ]

@@ロロノアゾロ-h4m So in terms of Hololive "idol culture", the purity that the fans hold on to is the purity of the characters? If the person behind the character gets revealed, then their purity is ruined? But there are certain Hololive vtubers who have other channels in which you can see their real faces and whatnot. And those other channels aren't doing too bad. But they don't get harassed and doxxed and whatnot. I mean those alternate channels aren't that hard to find if a guy like me could bump into it unintentionally. Maybe it's fine as long as it doesn't touch the main channel? So it's easier for them to suspend disbelief? Man, the thought process behind this is confusing.

[@Bryan_K_27435]

Just a few moment's in Aki's 250k sub special she did a collab with a male vtuber and there were one or two people asking in the chat if that was her boyfriend... like how outright ignorant can someone be to even make that association? Most entertainment industries (Male/female Idols mostly) use it as a farce to paint an illusion to sell out more which is understandable but they probably took it too far and it blurred the lines too much. Then again there are also the weird creepy disillusioned people that exist in the world which blur the lines for themselves. It could also be the entitlement mindset of "I'm paying you so I own you". Wish these issues would be addressed over the years similar to mental health which has started to raise awareness these days compared to the past. I know Korea's looking into the issue after several of their idols (?) committed suicide due to various (mental) issue both within the company and from external sources such as toxic people who want to ruin them for whatever reason.

[@slimehermit]

@@ロロノアゾロ-h4m But acting out of character is a character. Pekora is my example as there is a talkshow with Blazblue's Ragna VA points out, you forget your character says 'peko' or 'laugh normal'. And its fun.

[@Jinxelin]

Protect towa sama at all cost!

[@ProtoFriglacial]

One Devil has Fallen, we can't lose another...

[@Ajoura]

@@ProtoFriglacial But there's no other devil. The one that left appeared to be an angel.

[@w1ng255]

MUST PROTECT OUR TMT!!

[@Succubus_L0li]

Don't forget the others too these doxxers exists everywhere like damn

[@MABG19981130]

2020 feels like a horrible nightmare I cannot wake up from

[@plebshiro]

When will the rain stop guys?

[@kbcp]

It literally started raining when I read the news a few hours ago, a rainy day indeed

[@Bryan_K_27435]

It's been rainy these past few days, monsoon season I guess. It's weird that it's still raining indoors too..

[@arniealaan6942]

once the sun shines over you~

[@pafu-201]

Dont worry guys rainbow brigdes will give us a way :D

[@sonicXstarhedgehog]

I dunno, but my umbrella protects me from the rain.

[@Antroid]

Some people are saying that it was basically caused by something of a vtuber hater community (on 5ch I guess?) who started digging for personal info and such as soon as the news about gen5 broke. With Aloe they just happened to find a hook, and then they dug deeper and tore out some things she apparently said about a retired Nijisanji vtuber and the overall dark side of the vtuber business, and pretty much forced a fake concern narrative about how Aloe was unprofessional and a liability and such, badmouthing Nijisanji among other things. So in truth this is likely deeper than the very surface level issue of that not deleted live2d test stream, and even deeper the slightly more advanced ideas about how they dug up info about her having a boyfriend or some such, it might really just be a coordinated effort by haters that want to take down vtubers. Curious side note, but apparently one Nijisanji vtuber once self-retired as well (granted, not because of harassment, but because she didn't feel like she fit in) and then came back on her own accord (when the company's overall vibe shifted a bit), so it's cool to imagine Aloe doing some sort of triumphant comeback a year or so down the line and owning all the no-life losers who harassed her. It's never gonna happen, but it's a nice thing to imagine until I get over the annoyance from this. Speaking of which, I get that this is sad, but people's exaggerated rage and hair-tearing devastation are very likely like fuel to the "antis". I have some spiteful hater blood in me and I can imagine the emotional reactions from everyone being the most delicious thing to them, and a big encouragement to follow up with more. It's basically trolling. Of course, I'm not suggesting suppressing all emotion, but people should probably express it in a more controlled manner and try to be less amusing to the trolls.

[@caramelitoalegre]

Any person drawing enjoyment from Aloe's retirement, and the fans' anger about it, is a social reprobate. There's a real person behind that avatar, and she's clearly terrified of what online trolls could do to her. She's already had stalking incidents before, so getting doxxed and harassed only aggravated her already existing fears and insecurities. If driving a girl into a corner and forcing her to quit her dream job makes someone happy, then that person is a piece of shit, plain and simple. The very air they breathe is wasted on them.

[@Antroid]

@@caramelitoalegre Absolutely. I'm only speaking from a perspective that lacks the human element you're describing, like, I'm not good enough of a person to be unable to imagine feeling satisfaction out of spite. Even if I don't like this about myself, I can relate to being really annoyed by people all around being vocal fans of something you think sucks. I would never ever personally move a single finger to cause anything like it, but there are things in this world that if they were to suddenly get cancelled tomorrow, lots of fans would be upset and I would giggle to myself. Of course, the introduction of Aloe's actress and the harassment into the picture ups the nastiness severely. And a level of possible understanding doesn't mean excusing their behavior or forgiving it.

[@caramelitoalegre]

@@Antroid Malice has a strange allure to it, actually. Making others suffer can give you a sense of superiority over them, and if you dehumanize them to the point where you don't even trigger any empathy towards them, it's quite joyful to destroy someone. A prime example of this is in video games, where you can have a lot of fun killing enemies, defeating villains and whatnot. This is probably an aggressive instinct of competition we have ingrained in our brains. We can consider it a form of tribalism, even. But actually acting on this impulse on real people is a big no-no, and it deserves being looked down upon and punished. Humans are naturally aggressive and violent. Just a brief look at history shows we've been murdering and abusing each other for several milennia already, but that doesn't mean we should just stick to your old and downright primitive traditions. We can be better than that. We're socially advanced enough that we can choose our own code of behavior, and craft it into something mutually supportive and beneficial. I strongly believe that we're better off working together, being nice to each other and acting as a group so that each of its members can do well. But Aloe got the short end of the stick, and the idiots who get high on attacking her got their victory in the end, giving no regard to the vulnerable person behind her avatar who was only trying to work a job.

[@Antroid]

@@caramelitoalegre Agreed. Thouh while I also think that "we're better off working together", I feel like the internet has demonstrated that something has to change drastically before human nature stops steering global communication into the darkest pits. It's easy to not see the people behind those you interact with online or especially just hear or read about.

[@yin6287]

Btw the VTuber you're talking about is Sasaki. She self retired due to can't play Nintendo games and ran out of creativity so she self retired. Later Nijisanji and Nintendo made a contract that allows Nijisanji VTubers to stream Nintendo without copyright issue. This make Sasaki comeback to become a VTuber

[@Nematoda4ever]

all of this happened because those antis, not suspension or breach the contract whatsoever, it just one mistake that actually not that big deal....... but those antis... they really destroying her life...... her privacy got known public, some guy claiming as her boyfriend, her address, her house got many unknown calls, her family got involved... i can't imagine how devastated Aloe because of that...

[@Nematoda4ever]

@@jakepayne9707 no, its not about Cover 'terminate' her because identity leak, since many hologirls identities already open secret like Coco... breach the contract already happen before Aloe, like Hitomi and Towa, on Hitomi case she got 'shady deal' with someone then that person leaked her privacy and that 'deal', so she choose to 'graduated'. while Towa case it just a blunder like Aloe, a one mistake, but she still active until now... since her privacy still safe so those antis cannot attack her IRL.... unlike Aloe the reason she left because those antis shenanigans....

[@naofisheryukinon6590]

@@Nematoda4ever the blunder isn't what they are raging about but the leaked VOD from her old account/persona where she talks about why her friend quit from nijisanji and about the dark side of being a liver. And what is worse is that it angered not just the hololive fans but nijisanji fans as well, saying that she might leak another 'rumor' about the company or the other livers.

[@Nematoda4ever]

@@naofisheryukinon6590 just because you hate someone doesn't mean you can destroy someone's life and dream right? unless she kill your loved one, then you have right to destroy her life... i didn't say she isn't wrong, i basically saying no one deserve what Aloe experience just because the mistakes she made, heck we didn't even know if what she said is the truth or just from her own perspective (since you know it wasn't mean to be watched by other people so she just vent out what was inside her head on that stream)... i'm sure real fans of Nijisanji and Hololive never gonna do something extreme like that, anger? yes, hate? yes... but destroying her dream and life as vtuber? thats not a fans... thats just antis...

[@theblueneko677]

I just found all about this today and im not crying youre crying.

[@Yaboi_Noct]

this is certainly heart broken announcements, hearing it directly from another 5th gen that try to hold themself not to break and burst to tear (for Lamy and Nene) it's certainly heart wrenching. how antis just attacking nonstop it's totally out of boundaries... this is truly a great loss... not only for other member of 5th gen and the rest of the holo member, but certainly for people who already anticipating of her coming back... and ironcly enough, there's so many comments on regarding the video about the announcements that mention the only thing that can save this kind of thing to happen is the support of the overseas fans since the overseas fan never attacking nor expecting these holo idol to be innocent and perfect for their ideal idol, the overseas fan just there for the entertaintment they needed, and i'm certainly sure overseas fan is more supporting than in the one japan itself... note : this is the first time i'm making an essay comment like this on youtube knowing fully that no one will read it, but i just need to gush out these feeling of pain. i'm sorry for my ranting i hope you guys can go through with this just like Aloe decide to go through with this as well

[@anonymouse3706]

From my understanding about Idol Culture is that Idols don't have the voice of their own. One small mistake then you're cancelled. These Idol Purists won't even give them chance to explain their side and will harrass the person until they're forced to quit. This will probably happen again in the future if the industry and these Idol purists won't change. History repeats itself always remember!

[@Shinekage]

Idol purists are extremely toxic the moment they get "disillusioned" that the girl they support is a real living person. They are fanatics that cannot stand reality which makes them act like this.

[@CHICRITRO]

its f ucking dumb tbh, wtf do they see in these girls?! goddesess? they need to know damn well that they're human and make mistakes too, most of the harasser came from the japanese community, sometimes i do wanna slap the fuck out of them and make them open their eyes for once, their technologies are insane and already living in the future, but they've failed as a human being

[@blackpepper2610]

That's how it's been for years in japan, we as an outsider only happen to come in and realized it now,

[@KaoruSF]

Tbh, they need the punk counterculture that we had

[@ludgerkant]

This would be very likely suppress if the Vtuber from the beginning show the persons they are irl just to clarify to those freaks that they are just acting. But hiding their personas and everything about them is just scaling the nerves of bad people to ruining their careers.

[@Luke0Maker]

She was one of my favorites in this new group, sadly she is gone, but I hope she can have a good time in IRL, because dude, humanity is scary sometimes.

[@antimoba7778]

Sometimes?

[@ImmortalInflames]

I remember this nearly a year ago now.. long before I discovered Koefficient! I've always been disgruntled at Hololive for not having Aloe's back.. It's fair to say we don't know what happened behind closed doors. However a public statement for support for her & all the other talents would go a long way. It's not that the talents can't take care of themselves but them knowing the company has their back if anything happens is a huge stress relief! Just recently when watching Botan's anniversary.. the song she opened with was none other than Happy Synthesizer and man, even knowing it could be by chance.. I can't help but feel that was a nod of silent respect to Aloe & her fans that yes, this would be Aloe's 1 year anniversary too! It's lovely to see gen 4 & 5 still thrive with out Coco & Aloe.. but it'll always be a little sad that we will never get the band back together. To finish on a positive note... in the short time Aloe was with us, she really left a mark.. people still draw art of her, people, she pops up in memes, there's a fan website dedicated to her, there is a large amount of clipped content of her that survives because of her fans. There is no doubt that Aloe was... no... Is loved!

[@gos2501]

Even tho i never tuned in this is sad as hell wish i knew better

[@_colorful2620]

For those people who love her, pleause check out the videos in my chanel, she left some songs

[@LunarEdge7]

@@_colorful2620 Dude I loved that she did that first song (the final upload one)! Thanks for the uploads, I really wanted to hear her sing some other tracks.

[@Nolo-HLM]

I'm happy that you covered this in the most non dramatic and realistic up to earth way. 2020 was the worst year of my life but I pray with all my life that Mano Aloe and everybody reading this takes time to do their best in life no matter the struggles and hope the best for you all and especially Mano Aloe. You will be missed😢.

[@yohann1252]

Ah, today is really a bad day for rain. Anyways, all we can do now is support the other girls specially the other 5th gen because they too have been going through rough times because of what happened.

[@kannatheweeb8836]

Today is a sad day

[@dehydratedwater4759]

Sometimes I lay awake at night thinking about what could have been and what was

[@DaLittleBull]

6:16 I love Koe's hope for the Idol Industry, Cover corp won't change those companies never do. Aloe will be just one more case of a hard working girl that had to give up because of the toxic mentality of some.

[@Zombie-Hunter]

Toxic people suck. Like the move in Pokemon the damage increases as time goes on.

[@TheNukedNacho]

I totally agree with you on the VTuber’s identities. Why do you have to know? Why can’t you just watch and enjoy them as they are? Which is why I’m extremely infuriated by a certain KZbin channel that posts their identities. I’ve reported the channel on Cover’s website and to YT but it’s still up. And it makes me mad because their videos *always* show up in the “Shorts” when I’m looking for clips of certain VTubers. Not even just HoloMems

[@RiobasTayem]

damn she was the one I was most excited about in Gen 5. I hope she is doing well.

[@victormoreau8472]

Thank you for posting this video. Man, I've just gone and written the longest KZbin comment I've ever done (even using Japanese despite my little skill) on the Generation 5's thought video. I just feel so sorry for Aloe. Genuinely wish she will get over this and don't let this become a lifetime trauma. I just hope we can, at some point at the future, hear her happy voice again (don't have to make a comeback if she doesn't want to, just a small one is fine, like a small home-made video, or maybe just some tweet to let us know that she is fine now). And wish the best for her character's designer too, I heard he/she got struck by the news quite heavily, even falling to sickness that is.

[@CaioCezar9203]

i agree 100% what you say, my english is not perfect, i'm brazilian, but this vtubers united a lot of people arround the world together who watch and love them. I'm really sad about the harassment she suffered and i hope this doesn't happen again. I'm happy with your position and happy to see you are aware.

[@karamaboshash9019]

Man you summarized everything ... What hurt us as fan that we couldn't do anything ... In my opinion we should address that to these companies ((take a legal action against those antis)) If you're not willing to protect your idol then stop a lot of suicide cases happened for the same reason ... 💔💔💔💔

[@jiangpingjiang5096]

The saddest part ever? She talked about what she feared about. It came true. *In ten fold.* What could’ve been...

[@monparfait5489]

Im literally somewhat getting sad over this

[@pancy6260]

"Once I grow up, my right horn will be as big as my left one. Make sure you see it with your own eyes. Please witness it! Please! This quote almost made me cry

[@_colorful2620]

For those people who love her, please check out the videos in my channel, I found some songs she left.

[@mr.badguy0408]

You're lucky for only feeling somewhat sad. My gut is literally getting stabbed repeatedly over here.

[@notfutomomo3424]

I feel sick from when i heard the news until now.

[@mashiroo5542]

We tried our best to give her our full support, but it's not enough. i feel really bad and powerless against those doxxers

[@CapitanoAraym]

... and I cannot remove from my mind her cover of "Happy Synthetizer". She REALLY had the most idol potential of the entire 5th gen, but was sacked just because jerks and antis discovered that she had an opinion: A BAD opinion about the very same antis, and that was proccupied. She was the perfect target for people without remorse, to feel empowered by fear. And Cover Corp. FAILED miserably, again, to take action, to show a bit of guts to shake these antis away, for two entire weeks: they should... no... the MUST learn a lesson, and start even a capaign anti-doxxing. A PUBLIC ONE!!!

[@phir9255]

She is disliked not only by antis but by some of the average fans too for her personality if I understand correctly.

[@CapitanoAraym]

@@phir9255 I do not want to generalize: japanese culture is so different from the western... but there is indeed a deep problem about A LOT of people even in the "delusional fans" (not all the fans are alike... I mean only thet portion TOO deep into any fandom to not have a reality check in their thoughts): mix it with the japanese culture to "follow the leader and the (apparent) majority" (... on internet, only the lousy ones, generally the haters/jerks/trolls), the average, meeek, person is easily could be driven to "follow the bandwagon" simply to not be stigmatized as "different". Also, the indeed convinction that "the company has the priority" in any workplace, make them easier to hit the person that was behind Aloe, rather than see, alike a lot of western people, the importance to PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL from harassment, and the moral duty of the company that hiired them to BE ON ARMS against harassers. A problem deep even into their law, a bit too weak to protect internet harassment, or harassment in general if not going into the phisical damage... ... an event like this in a western comunity (I'm european, italian for the precision) it allows even the single person (in this case Aloe) to ask a FULL inquiry by police, that can track down: - internet IPs (I doubt that NYONE involved in the harassing/doxxing was fully covered by VPN... and also using that, police can relatively easily backtrack a lot of infos) - authoprs of telephone calls ... and a lot of other stuffs, to easily hit "someone" legally. Once you show then pubblicly that people could be arrested, a lot of this lousy codards are easy to be run off (even more if a media company, alike Cover Corp. could then shown to the public the results of their involvment in some public press release) ... but it's Japan... it's not working that way... sadly for A LOT of girls in the show-biz (in the past, present and future) that had/have/will suffer alike the girl that is behind Aloe...

[@jn9475]

They failed again...

[@isabienafoxlynx1126]

Thank you for pointing this out. I really got pissed when I'm waiting for this day to see her comeback and then I heard she suddenly graduate. Man I've never been so mad in my life..

[@ProfIdiotKuro]

The only situation where i'd want to know their "identity" in real life is when they leave, and i'd like to know who they now play so i can love their new character as i loved their old one. Not the person behind the character. Because i respect them. But i guess in this case i have to break my moral code because i don't know if she'll ever want to return to the vtuber business. Maybe on her own not apart of any corporation. But i do not want her name or any supposed names because i respect aloe as a human being. As a living breathing thing. Not something above a god. Not something where a mistake can cost your life. No. I love her. For her, all her mistakes all her flaws. But i hope she comes back. And i hope hololive/covercorp makes a special deal with her. So she can come back as aloe. But super protected.

[@caramelitoalegre]

Yeah, I feel the same way. I'd like to dig into Aloe's previous and future ventures to show some support, but at the same time I think she doesn't want or need the attention right now. I might get mistaken for another creep trying to stalk her if I dig too deep into who she is and what kind of previous content she has. As far as I know, she was into making music before. Would really like to find a link or two and listen to it, but chances are all that content has been shelved already. A real damn shame.

[@mr.badguy0408]

@@caramelitoalegre kzbin.info/door/RGPTyzWyMQzofC-5L4D5mQ there are two songs in this channel performed by Aloe, it's my coping mechanism atm.

[@caramelitoalegre]

@@mr.badguy0408 Thank you, kind sir.

[@Azumongo]

Yeah, I also believe that the only information we should have about vtubers is what their old/new characters are. Anything past that is just too intrusive and too dangerous for the vtubers. It's just my assumption, but I think that many vtubers really don't mind it at all when people say "X is now Y" as long as it doesn't happen on their channel or anything directly affiliated with it. At least that's what I'm getting from some of the vtubers who make *very* obvious references to their old persona, probably to confirm to old fans who they are. Which makes sense, imagine building up a community of hundreds of thousands of fans and then you stop playing that character for whatever reason and you go back to square one, no wonder some of them prefer to take their old fans with them. And I respect your optimism but I fear that Aloe will have a really hard time recovering from this all. She talked about the dark side of being a vtuber in one of the 2 leaked videos and now the things she said she was most afraid of actually happened. I'd love to see her as some kind of internet persona once again but I wouldn't be surprised if she took a job that's less public for now. But who knows, Marine is already 17 (season 2) so for all we know she will have an epic comeback as a vtuber after the anti flames died down for a few years. I doubt it will be soon, but maybe some day.

[@caramelitoalegre]

@@mr.badguy0408 Tsk. She's pretty good at it, too. Pisses me off all the more to have lost her >:| what kind of music would she have made with Hololive? Damn it all.

[@vincentisabluearchivesensei]

Can't focus when some dragon is dancing in the back ground but when i learned hololive about precisely 2 days i stumble in the wikipedia for pekora and suddenly discovers the terminated vtubers that's when i couldn't think properly couldn't sleep properly and couldn't even think positively that's when depression snuck in almost taking my life away but that one time it struck to my head if i kill myself will there be no anti's left so no it's useless so hear me out EVEN WHEN THE WORLD IS AGAINST US WE WILL TURN THE TABLES AROUND AND SHOW THEM WHAT WERE CAPABLE OF the precious memories that we kept the smile that we couldn't protect Don't give up we just haven't tried hard enough and now this has happened *WE WON'T HOLD BACK NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE*

[@pyromax6742]

Remember in coco's live stream with choco, aki, and kanata where they try to predict how the gen 5 will end up in a few months? Well we got 1 of the answer now

[@angkunehonghindimakali]

I couldn't agree more. This truly is a disheartening day, but all we can do is hope for the better in her future endeavors. If ever she decided to be an independent VTuber, I'll definitely follow her.

[@Soxmember69]

I don’t know about some of the Japanese audience, but the western audience finds it funny or acceptable when our waifus make mistakes. Part of the reason we (or at least I) love them is because some of them are, or somewhat being themselves. Edit: They fact that they don’t act like idols doesn’t phase me one bit. Like if you agree!

[@hertert7710]

Most JP fans are the same, it's just a few trolls that ruin it for everybody.

[@GAMEZONELITE]

As an Asian, it's more of a "part of our culture" than anything. We are taught to be perfect or at least enough so that we wouldn't commit multiple mistakes in our life. Will it still depends on how you grow up, but generally society expect you to be always professional about everything. Mistakes might be seen as cute, but only if it's in an anime or manga, but in real life you'll be reprimanded. Specially in the Idol industry, they are to be marketed as a fantasy for consumers. If an idol fails to achieve that fantasy, it becomes a social norm to punish them, as Idols are pretty much a job and if you fail that job you get punished. This is why Hololive is like a breath of fresh air for most people and why most early VTubers at their debut always acts and present themselves as genuine idols. But will as time goes on their real personality slowly leaks out. Though even if they are VTubers and are completely different compared to your usual idols, it still doesn't change the fact that they are Idols that can garner fans. This is reality for most people who works in the Entertainment Industry. As long as Fans exist, toxicity will always be prevalent. Overall Japan just have a very toxic Work Culture, but this is also why they are very competent in what they do.

[@_colorful2620]

For those people who love her, pleause check out the videos in my chanel, she left some songs

[@Soxmember69]

My Mental State Yeah. It’s a double edged sword. I admire your ways of meritocracy. Too bad the west can’t follow suit, and do racist things like affirmative action. I’m sure that if you turned it down a little, you would still be competent.

[@ゆうゆう-q6z]

Many Japanese fans considered her a dangerous person because she shed information on other vtubers.(used google translate)

[@mikaelolofsson2852]

I am pissed actually. The Fifth Generation had such a perfect launch I thought, and all of them seemed awesome in their own ways. This is such a waste, and I am sad for the person behind the avatar. I was looking forward to her return.

[@Zombie-Hunter]

Me too. She was unique.

[@animefanrk2k]

I wish Aloe the best. You said it perfectly~

[@shinobii8492]

7:04 EXACTLY, well fookin said my dude hopefully everybody will be able to understand this, like it doesnt really matter who it is behind the character all that matters is that whoever that person is shes still human who has feelings and like he said we came for the wholesome and great content these vtubers give us, I just hope that aloe will be fine after all this and that a bright future awaits her, Thanks my dude for talking about this btw

[@GranDutty11]

shes probably really scared atm, in her leaked stream she said that she didnt care if her face got leaked but if her house adress got leaked than she would really worry about it, and guess what, people started calling her house phone number harassing the girl. its really scary in jp idol community, idols have been stalked, stabbed, killed, robbed, and the idols know about this, Aloe, and by that i mean the person behind the avatar is living fear bc of how crazy this guys can be and that they know her location. IMO it wasnt her decision to leave, she was probably forced to do it

[@Graestra]

I haven’t cried this hard in years. I seriously didn’t think I would get this attached to her in the short time she was around. It would be one thing if it was a normal bittersweet graduation, but this whole situation is just a bitter mess.

[@EMR64]

Actually it already happened three times aready before this nobody just really want to talk about the first one. Anyway I respect Aloe's decision to just graduate since this whole thing has affected her health. So let's just hope everyone is doing fine. I was really hoping for her return but there's nothing we can do now.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

What was the first one?

[@EMR64]

@@tigerfestivals5137 I can't tell you here sorry some people might get offended you just have to research that yourself. Like on vtuber wiki or reddit.

[@yannybee3707]

@@EMR64 You mean the very first REDACTED, missing Hololive Member?

[@tigerfestivals5137]

@@EMR64 that's not really a good reason not to say something, and i dont really have much to go on with a search from just the info you've said

[@EMR64]

@@tigerfestivals5137 I'm sorry but I don't really want to add more negativity that's why I don't mention what it was about. Just read stand user reply that will get you a head start. Hope you can respect that.

[@shintiburongojira4043]

Bruh this is a new pain, this pain is different from what I've feel before

[@Barni2212]

They grew waaay to big. I agree that Cover/Hololive need to implement more protection for the idols. They aren't the little VTubers anymore they bring to the house millions. EACH.

[@miloXZ]

all i know is the second channel of Noel (doing ASMR) and coco (cosplay and gameplay, even with kanata some times), and that random video of Rushia

[@GaleKagura]

We’re all sad that Aloe won’t be returning and I truly wish that the path she chooses is better for her mentally and that she is doing better. As for the reason, I’d like to share some info since Koe only talked about two reasons, and one of which is sadly doxxing and using her Live2D before release date. The other big reason is explained in a much proper/better way than I’ll ever give is from alim translations’ community post which sheds on the problem in a way that tells you what she did too. If you want to know exactly what happened, please go to the reply section of this comment. Please do not blame the entirety of JP fans, a lot of them are actually chill, but sadly yes there are some fans who are really creepy and should be jailed for the things they do in the internet and in real life (stalking, phone calls, etc.)

[@grandcanon27]

Yeah, not all are toxic and creepy. And different countries have different laws, so I don't know what laws they have in Japan. But one thing's for sure, they must be protected, because they're still too young to experience this.

[@Erelear]

The ANTIS already got her on the crosshair just after her debut, since her info got leaked so fast. Most JP fans are also sad

[@GaleKagura]

There’s this VTuber who talks about what happened with Aloe: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6K8qZumnqeVarc What I’d like you to do is to stay calm on his not so funny attitude on his explanation and focus on what he says after 3:07.

[@dinozero2]

@@GaleKagura Oh that Narukami dude that just love to gossip about other VTubers.

[@Rupture_EX]

I blame them as enablers and I blame their inaction regarding management. Im sorry but this have been going for far too long and the JP community seems to not have the backbone to help shielding them. I bitterly blame their weakness.

[@siul6146]

I believe there is toxic people everywhere even in my it career you find people like that they can make mistakes but you cant. If you can't deal with it then it will be hard anywhere.

[@CaporegimeMarcus]

Here's some good news for anyone feeling sad, she's doing pretty well with her new reincarnation. She has a loyal fanbase who will protect that smile this time.

[@Clemdawg2k]

I was so excited with her debut stream. It is sad to know she is leaving in such a short amount of time. Wishing for the best in her future.

[@blacksiopao]

I know everyone is angry. Everyone is sad that this happened. But throwing more gasoline in the dumpster fire this situation has created wouldn't help. It hurts the fan base. It hurts the talents. It hurts Aloe. so yeah, I do agree 100% on what Koe says. Wouldn't have put it any other way. Remember Moona's tweet: _"When you can’t control what’s happening, challenge yourself to control the way you respond."_

[@blur2055]

The sadness is too heavy, I can’t handle it ( currently waiting for her comeback from suspension until I saw the graduation) wish her best for her future.

[@yurie.channel]

For the fans out there who participated on the welcoming ceremony for Aloe-san either through the kind messages on the twitter or maybe posting some fan-art/video for her after the 2 weeks suspension, no need to be sad because we all have done our best to celebrate her return. Also let us all respect her decision to graduate because she knows what's best for her. I guess the only take away from this case is people need to calm down on tracking the identity behind this idol-vtuber and even if you want to, just keep that information for yourself and no need to spread it around the internet. And about the Antis, they are also one of those die-hard fan who cant accept when their "idol" make some critical mistake in the past, for the sake of purity whatsoever similar to what was mentioned by Koe in this video. I swear i really want to cry after hearing this news because personally i was captivated by her persona and her singing's session in her first debut. ANyway, let us pray that she could stand-up strong after this whole incident and hopefully, banish the toxicity around this idol-culture.

[@Dk-Takahashi]

Is sad, but with everything that is happening right now, i had to re-watch this. We know this maybe no will be forever, we are loosing a lot of smiles. All we can do is support them till the end

[@Fordrake21]

This is a very sad situation... I honestly don't understand the mentality of the human beings that dared call themselfs her "fans", to go to the point of literally ruining her dream. To me that's not a "fan". A Fan supports their idols no matter what kind of situation they are in. If the idol goes on break the real fan will wait for their return. I the idol is being stalked the real fan will pray that nothing bad happens to the idol they like. If a fan discovers an idol real adress or identity, the real fan will keep if safe and secret, like a treasure they found that many will never find. These people that attacked her, they are no fans... I have no words to describe what they are but for sure they are not fans... Only think that's left for us to do is hope that she will get better both mentaly and physically, and that, maybe, she will come back... but probably, if she does. we might not know it's her since she mostly likely will have a different avatar.

[@luka188]

Ultimate Hololive Aniki living up to his name. Was nice to see your opinion on this KoeKoe

[@STABB3DintheFAC3]

Unfortunately, I think the antis are gonna see this as a win and be emboldened to do it again. They didn't even give Aloe a chance.

[@ashchisalleh1454]

Yeah, company just give anti a bullet to shot at fan.

[@houndofculann2820]

Man I recently have goten into in the V Tuber thing and I never knew that the fandom is so toxic I think I will enjoy it for myself and never get involved with the fandom or the communty I will stay in the shadows as always thanks for the Information. And you have a New sub. And I hope Aloe is and ok and lives a good Live and wish her the very best.

[@cody5089]

One thing that has annoyed me are the comments of "I wish Aloe the best but let's move on and continue supporting the other Hololive girls." That's the problem. "Moving on" from stuff like this will just cause people to forget and sweep it under the rug. The next thing we know another V-tuber ends up getting harrassed in the future and people act shocked again. It's just a vicious cycle where nothing seems to change.

[@whisperviz1346]

It's a sad part of vtuber history. I already imagine a big comeback for her, people from community already making plans for her comeback. They excited that the two weeks finally over but NOPE, the announcement came.

[@gaelc4016]

Loss of a crazy amount of potential right here

[@theycallmemavros4558]

I just got into vtubers like a week ago and I had no idea of this until yesterday. It saddens me that I didn't even get a chance to know her, to watch her content, to watch her have fun with her labelmates.

[@anowhereguy2521]

The justice systems around the world need to adapt to modern times. It's WAY too easy nowadays to destroy people lives on the internet and face absolutely no consequences for your actions.

[@satanichiakurumizawamcdowe3906]

i subscribed when i found you making a video about coco so keep on sharing your thoughts about hololive , i am really interested in that

[@Rupture_EX]

Imo JP fans DO have a part on the blame, because they havent taken management to task or AT THE VERY LEAST try to shield and have Aloe's back. Also this is not the first time this has happened, like seriously! Management by this point should know or be prepared to tackle this type of shit. Its just... dissapointing that we on this side of the world cant have a say and just have to bite the bullet when things like these happen because JP fans (for some reason) dont pressure CoverCorp to get their shit together or even pursue the people who doxxed her. And you know the saddest part? It WILL happen again, the question is who is next? Antis KNOW they can get away with this without repercussions. So yea, JP fans ARE part of the issue. Its their responsability to do what we on the west cant, because CLEARLY CoverCorp wont give an iota of a shit regarding what we do. TLDR: Western fan upset that the JP fans "Didnt protect Aloe's smile" And yes, im inmensily bitter about this whole thing, but im too jaded to cry even tho I really want to.

[@riceshower3413]

Thank you for sharing your thought about aloe and it helps calm down

[@LunarEdge7]

"That's not the point, the point is-" *Mobile Legends ad pops up.* Bruh

[@GrayLustburgENVTuber]

I watched a clip of the livestream of Aloe from back in 2019 where she discussed how dark some VTuber agencies are; especially Nijisanji such as being required to not date anyone and only hang out with friends in real life. It kind of hinted that she foresaw something bad to come up and I take it that she made the decision to quit to not only no longer deal with toxic fans but how workplace in Hololive is in general

[@fenrir3097]

The 2 week suspension wasn't a punishment. Breaking TOS and NDA is enough for her to get terminated. It's a last attempt at making the heat die down. They invested on Aloe, and firing would be throwing all that investment and potential future income out. Regarding the thing she did. The live 2D leak was a honest mistake and incompetence on the manager's side + inexperience on the vtuber. The one that really caused problems was her leaking information on company policies and information on a Nijisanji vtuber, including their private information. Please don't immediately associate japanese fans with haters. Yes antis/haters do exist, but don't paint the entirety of the JP fanbase as haters. They aren't the majority.

[@luminous3558]

She wasn't under contract at that time, it happened 1 year ago prior to 5th gen auditions which were in spring this year. She didn't leak any company policies she talked about the idol industry very generally and none of it sounded like it could apply to hololive or nijisanji, most of it was just commonly known things. On the topic of the nijisanji vtuber she simply said that she retired due to her identity being leaked instead of the official nice reason, nothing more. Hololive either knew most of this or didn't care since they hired her anyways. To say that everything bad that happens is the fault of antis/haters and them alone is making it a bit too easy. The people who acted concerned for the other hololive girls and tried to protect them from aloe by joining this witch hunt are also at fault, same with the nijisanji fans that got offended and wanted revenge.

[@toaruningen_neko]

yo ur the best bruh 7:04 this is how everyone should think as a vtuber fan. thank you so much for saying this :) ur literally one of the best

[@Nytrusdeathcyde]

nothing we can do? i call bullshit on that there IS something that we can do will it be drastic yes will it be shady? probably but there IS something that can be done to rid this toxicity or at least reduce it. hell ill do it myself if i have to

[@masamune2984]

Thank you for your thoughts on this, Koefficient. Whether you originally intended to or not, you are a major voice in this community. Appreciate your outlook on the situation, and you couldn’t have said anything better 🙂

[@zask.9950]

She is back with another channel now.

[@firzafadlaniskandar8827]

What it is ?

[@firzafadlaniskandar8827]

What is her channel name ?

[@hasanmuttaqin464]

@@firzafadlaniskandar8827 Δ

[@naruyuuki4334]

Please support and protect her, with love ∆

[@Skymoc4]

@@firzafadlaniskandar8827 Its no exactly it but i think you can translate: Dla2yaꕔ

[@neptune4273]

your fan will always await your Resurrection(Return) even though your not the Mano Aloe we knew before.. but i know deep inside that it will be you.. your voice your singing will always be my healing melody

[@oreore949]

Somehow, I doubt that this was truly Aloe's sole decision. If you're familiar with Japanese business practices, you should know that it's fairly rare for individuals to truly get "fired", exactly. Rather, it's more common for companies that want an employee gone to push that employee to the brink and encourage them to quit. This happened in a public way recently with Capcom's Yoshinori Ono (Maximilian talked about it recently), where he was in a high position, then was demoted to a lesser position, then given a worse workload, then removed from public eye, etc. It's seen as pathetic to refuse to give up your position, but companies can really slam you until you finally have had enough and leave. I'm worried that Aloe will have problems getting employed as a VA or another Vtuber in the future, but I really hope she's able to work past all of this, but I don't think I can forgive the idol-like environment both on the side of the toxic viewers, commonly referred to as the "antis" as well as Cover Corp, who I feel like could have provided her more support. I'm sad for her, Botan, and the rest of the members 5th gen or otherwise. Towa was super happy to have a succubus kouhai, so that's heart-rending. Basically, some people suck, and I hope they get better.

[@precious_shun]

Or maybe it is Aloe's decision after all. Her household got several anonymous phone call and a person that is no longer related to her (ex) also being harrased the same. She still want to win over this? Only for become an ambigous job like virtual youtuber? With the cost of the harmony life of her and people around her?

[@oreore949]

@@precious_shun While these are terrible things to be sure, Cover Corp did a much better job of supporting the other idols (Mel in particular) that had similar things happen to them. The exception is Chris, of course, but that was an...internal...issue.

[@carlosalmaguer1550]

@@precious_shun Japan has such a terrible work culture to the point that even if Aloe personally said "i did this because i wanted to" i would still think Cover had a hand or straight up pushed her to do it, combine that with the whole " only critize someone behind their back" and past stories of talent being straight up abused by corporations and I'll never trust any official statements, sadly we can only speculate and some might even think that's a good thing, leaving this problem behind and move forward, but maybe if more details came out they could protect someone in the future or change the policies to better protect talent and workers, but that's just an opinion.

[@RatchildUK]

This is definitely her decision. She and her family are being harassed irl, no doubt she just wants to be forgotten so they will stop.

[@precious_shun]

@@oreore949 The Mel issues can be resolved because the only people involved are Mel and the harasser. So of course Cover would do their best to support Mel the way they can through things like lawsuit which they worked through a lot of time. But in Aloe case, there's assumption that her ex are harassed, and so this person involved. And because the anonymous calling to household, of course her whole family would involved too. Because of that, in both Aloe's and Cover's view point, there's of course too much people involved. At this point it's no longer a business problem that Cover need to done. It goes back into family consent or agreement of the said person deployment which Cover has no right to say anything if her family were say her to stop. Not to say her ex really could legally sue her too for disturbance in his life. So in the end, of course she herself decided to do this. To protect the community, to protect her family, to protect her friends (other 5 gen members), and most importantly, to protect herself. I say, she decide to graduate is not a gain at all. A big loss, but if she would decide to keep fighting through this, the amount she lost would be bigger than this.

[@u.kw1461]

I'm really glad for your opinion on this. It's really tough to here, as you put it, how we won't see how great she really is. Having your take on is really interesting to hear. I really hope CoverCorp finds new ways to protect the girls and guys. Seeing how people treated Aloe is just horrible. Our efforts to support -i'm sure- haven't gone to waste. We can only hope the best for someone who's talented and full of potential.

[@gladewings1192]

Im pretty sure its not because of the "Idol Culture" thing but this comment from J is what i think is the cause J 1 day ago What apparently happened was Aloe made some speculative comments regarding the retirement of Kudo Chitose of Nijisanji, implying that her real reason for retiring was due to a fellow Vtuber leaking her personal information. The notion had always been a rumor at best, since Chitose (under her new identity after she switched jobs) later wrote a letter stating she quit due to losing her passion for streaming and instead wanting to pursue her career in singing. Presumably, an extremely obsessive minority of Chitose's/Nijisanji's fans and people who disliked Aloe from her previous works for one reason or another felt that this perceived slander against Chitose/Nijisanji was unacceptable and went on a crusade to cancel her via doxxing and harassment. Unfortunately, these people are hiding under the excuse that they are ridding the Vtuber community of someone who they think is unable to keep her mouth shut about private matters (Aloe), so they see themselves as doing god's work. The leaked 2D model and ex-boyfriend were merely more fodder for them. Sadly, I think Aloe's career as a Vtuber is likely permanently finished because she happened to cross the wrong section of the Internet (the spiteful individuals who happen to have all the free time in the world to find out who you are and ruin your life, just for the sake of a cheap thrill and feeling of superiority). If she can't trust a large agency like Hololive to protect her, then she certainly isn't trusting herself to debut independently and weather the storm. Laws are only effective if they get enforced, and I doubt Japanese (or any country's for the matter) police are very much interested in investing man-hours into tracking down Internet harassers.

[@NikanaTenno]

This is the third times i cry about this. it hurts, it hurts so much. I don't even look up on her when 5th gen announced. but then I saw what happened and I felt related, remind me of the past, that's when it hurts.

[@synapse0]

Idol Worship can be legendarily bad when it gets bad. Additionally, for Aloe's case, since she tangentially put the rest of the company at risk many jp fans got extremely upset as well. When it comes to piling on those that harm the group few cultures are as nasty as the eastern cultures.

[@ロロノアゾロ-h4m]

Which makes me ask how Towa survived after that one stream where she accidentally opened the camera while streaming with Kiryu Coco.

[@lyq232]

@@ロロノアゾロ-h4m cuz Kiryu Coco is an exception. She has already shown her face on other accounts, and probably don't openly admit her identity due to her contract, instead of privacy concerns. Also, Coco's shenanigans filters the type of viewers that watch her.

[@ロロノアゾロ-h4m]

@RobDeLaMort She got criticized heavily by her Japanese fanbase for being very reckless during and after that stream. Even Kiryu Coco was so concerned and the two were screaming in panic.

[@andikairmayza3890]

It's terrible day for rain 😭😭 But remember all of you.... The Flower we saw that day.... (Mano Aloe) Thank you, even though you gave us a little memory but it is very valuable for us, thank you aloe because you have been here even for a moment 🙏🙏🙏

[@IncognitoBear-VTuberClips]

There's still hope of her returning though. Her Twitter and KZbin channel haven't gotten privated/deleted. Tweets and videos just got deleted.

[@ZorrowTasogare92]

Someday, maybe a miracle can happen... Much love to 5th gen 💕💕💕

[@Cielzerozx004]

Thank you for covering this man. I wish her the best luck.

[@awesomereviews1561]

The BF stuff with that company is so stupid. Are you gonna date a 2D/3D model? Are you pissed if an anime character has a bf/gf? Obviously no because they are not real. So it doesn’t matter if a doggo has a BF when she isn’t acting as the doggo.

[@rcurugan]

I have been crying and feeling sad for a day, the day that she graduated. But I'm sure that she wants us to be happy and move on. We will keep her in our memories and heart. 5th gen is the first hololive generation that I was able to watch from debut until the present streams,which is why it hits hard.

[@renookami4651]

So, her two weeks suspension turned into being fired? And to think that the succubus is supposed to be THE archetype that is allowed free passes about their past (cause you know, succubus things) it's just unfair. Cause let's be honest, the annoucment makes no sense without reading between the lines. "She used her model before debut date" => "she decided she wasent mentally prepared for the job" makes no sense by itself. It's pretty clear that the harassment got so bad that she had to stop before crazies goes further than what was already happening.

[@precious_shun]

["She decided she wasnt mentally prepared for the job" makes no sense] Do you really think a several phone call from anonymouses to her main household which all about complain and mockery is not enough to broke a girl down? She doesn't want to win or lose, she just want to done with all this stuff and hoping her normal life back. And that's why she HERSELF decide to GRADUATE. Not FIRED or TERMINATED. Just hope that she will do great in her life. And it does not has to be related to virtual world.

[@renookami4651]

​@@precious_shun Thanks for focusing on only part of the actual statement...Now take a minute to calm down, I'll isolate it so there's no more confusion possible. "She used her model before debut date" => "she decided she wasent mentally prepared for the job" makes no sense by itself. The transition between presented fact and reason of depart make no sense without reading the lines. The point was to point out that indeed the real reason was the harrassment and not at all the mistake she made when preparing her debut. Of course she just want to be done with this nonsense from crazies and more importantly to not feel threatened anymore for merely having a life before her debut. Who wouldn't want to quit after that?

[@ianchoi7142]

Read the info again; she left on her own accord. Plus, getting a 2 week suspension after breaching contract of confidential information before her debut is already generous from cover instead of firing her on the spot.

[@renookami4651]

@@ianchoi7142 It's not generous, it's just the "tactful" way to approach that kind of things in their culture. Of course she's "not fired" because it would be bad press to take responsability for the descision at face value. . It's like the public apology for tests she had green lights to perform, it should be supervised to prevent such mistake yet she was the one "100% at fault" when it happened.

[@ianchoi7142]

@@renookami4651 the doxxing and test stream may not be the main reason she graduated. There was an old stream of her allegedly leaking sensitive information of an ex vtuber from nijisanji and idol industry practices months BEFORE her debut. Which may have a part in the breach of contract for disclosure of confidential information.

[@fethinggakk4185]

Totally agree, and I think our best course of action now is just to support the other hololivers as best as we can especially the other gen 5s after this tragedy.

[@stitches1110]

Careful Koe, the Japanese idol fandom is super aggressive towards western fans due to our vastly differing views on these types of situations, often times calling westerners “naive” for not understanding why we should be upset as fans.

[@bigdice3000]

Well, the troll have no beter thing to do. So they doxxed ppl. And for some reason they always have the power to ruin other people

[@shubhkumar8487]

him : hopefully nothing will happen like this aggain me : its happening for the third time (cries)

[@rfreewind]

With the recent events, count that up to four.