My thoughts on the Honda Gx200's suitability to re-power the Lazair

[@roscoem9178]

Thank's again Pete for sharing your four stroke conversion success story! There are a lot of people trying and failing with these industrial motors on ultralights, but you did it!

[@alltheboost5363]

Awesome setup. That one engine that spits out a little bit of oil out the valve cover probably has a little bit of blow by which is not uncommon for those engines (ring Gap may have been set a little too big) when you start putting Arc rods and stuff like that in them. I'd recommend keeping an eye on the rod bearings they're super cheap they're like 20 bucks a set. You can get pretty much get all those parts except for the gear reduction from performance go-kart places.

[@donjayamaha6174]

Can you give us the list of all the modification you did to the Gx200

[@19pete38]

Go to NR Racing Don...all the information you need is on that site..

[@donjayamaha6174]

Thanks Perter

[@alextrezvy6889]

@@donjayamaha6174 did you found the list of modifications?

[@enemybkk436]

Great and thank for your share the good knowledge. I'm interesting to fly in some day.

[@EmekaIgbom]

Can 30 kg thrust able to get the lazair arborn from ground

[@19pete38]

not on single engine..

[@EmekaIgbom]

@19pete38 I mean 15 from each one making it 30 kg combined

[@19pete38]

@@EmekaIgbom ..marginal, if at all..

[@EmekaIgbom]

@@19pete38 ok what about 40 kg thrust 20,20 from each engine

[@19pete38]

@@EmekaIgbom yep..should work..

[@crankhandle]

Are you still flying this machine? Just wondering how long term reliability has been?

[@lenBrill1971]

Looks great. Steel mounts are overkill. Thanks for posting. Any interest in selling?

[@clubsnapperuk]

i close my eyes and i hear good old james stewart talking , god i miss him ,

[@vstol501]

Ok you answered my question later in the video thank you

[@lookupparagliding]

Hello Peter, good to see you flying with the gx200s again. I see you've been upgrading them since I last saw them to :) I also watched the testing for performance figures video a couple of days ago. Level flight on one engine is pretty good :) Any hoo, happy flying. Rob.

[@19pete38]

Good to hear from you again Rob..!! Ged Stinnissen is responsible for putting together this set-up, and I'm sure pleased he let me take over...this all hinges back to the work you guys did and your trials and experiments and mistakes that showed us the way, and I thank you for that... What we have now, is a power source for the Lazair twin that is half the price of modern PP engines, with reliability of the 4 stroke.. I'm really quite pleased with the result..!! ..and happy flying to you too..!!....Pete

[@lookupparagliding]

Peter Harrison Thank you Peter, I appreciate your kind words :) I'm glad you've found an ideal set up for the Lazair. Do you have any range/economy data? (Apologies if you've already covered this, I've not seen all your recent videos). Thanks again, Rob :)

[@19pete38]

Looks like a safe 4hrs on five gal Rob.. should give about 200 miles..

[@lookupparagliding]

Peter Harrison That's good, just enough flying time between toilet breaks :)

[@19pete38]

prob 130 lbs total thrust...Ged Stinnissen built the redrives from scratch.. the Predator should be good with the proper mods..!

[@DavethePilot]

Hi Peter, I finally got the engines really tuned up so I'm getting a good consistent 5,000rpm Full Power and I have it set at 4,300 to descend and also is where I have it for landing as I continue to hold her off the runway until she finally sets down just about at stall and then I can bring up the engines to about 2,700rom's to keep up about 10 mph or so to taxi. I will be out there this Saturday again and will try and Climb probably to 4-5 Thousand. I want to see how long it takes me. I will stay over the airport and keep my eyes on a swivel so do that VFR thing. I wanted to ask you, When you owned it, did you ever try and see how High you could get her on Max Altitude on those engines? Yep, I'm also getting real close to flying her over about 20 miles to the Mountains called Crestline so I can do some Thermaling with the engines off. That will be a blast. I will probably just do that thermaling around the Airport first so I can see how hard it is to get the engines started again once up in the air. We will do the testing slowly. When I get my friend Tim who use to be a LAZAIR dealer down here in Southern California back in the day. He should have his about ready to fly in a month or so and then we can start flying away from the Airport and see the area with the two of us. Have a good one buddy.

[@19pete38]

Glad you got her running good Dave.. you shudn't have and probs getting to 5 or 6 thou ... l'm thinking with those big props wind milling at idle or stopped, you might want to keep 2800 or so on to cancel the prop drag.. Good plan to stay around the airport till you determine your best glide speed ..shud be in the low 30's l'm thinkin.. best climb is about 28 mph...have fun with her Dave and keep the clips coming.!!

[@ThinkingManNeil]

Have you ever had a dual prop set-up on your Lazair like some used to have, Peter?

[@19pete38]

ThinkingManNeil .Yes..the original twin prop got the job done..l switched to 32x12 Zoar rc props and they were probably 10% more efficient ..

[@MrJmattr3]

That’s awesome!

[@Guy4UnderDog]

The company that sells the reduction drive for these is www.aceaviation.co.uk/redrives The unit is $569 +$99 shipping to the states....about 3X the cost of the motor...

[@sweetwilliam49]

Where’s a video of it flying

[@19pete38]

lots of vids of it flying flying..look on my site..

[@alltheboost5363]

You should also run those low oil pressure switches to a light in the cockpit that way you know if it's low on oil.

[@19pete38]

Darn good idea, all he boost..!! thx

[@titikindah5504]

Thankyou for shàre

[@Bergstaller01]

Have you thought of putting a bulb primer with a one way valve on each of the fuel lines? It might make priming and fuel retention in the lines easier, as you mentioned that they drain back to the tank fairly easily.

[@19pete38]

yes..thanks phah.. since that vid was recorded l installed the plunger style primers and man does it ever make a difference.. the tillitsons tend to leak back if they sit for a few weeks, and the primers light them rite up now with only a few pulls..!!

[@indragmail]

hi, did you make the other propeler turn to opposite direction? if so, how?

[@CarrierPigeon42]

he didn't. You can see by the props. both motors are turning counter clockwise looking at the front of the motor.

[@geostomp]

Would a single motor of this style be enough to pull the Skypup along?

[@19pete38]

l was getting about 70 lbs thrust per engine..

[@geostomp]

Well then maybe the gx390 or two like yours in hammerhead configuration.

[@19pete38]

@@geostomp shud work.!!

[@flyitandbikeit]

Hi Peter, Good to see you're still experimenting with 4 strokes. I don't think those engines on this Lazair are putting out anywhere near as much power as you think. The prop speed reduction and 44" prop is much more efficient than the old Rotax 185's using the stacked direct drive prop. My little 5.5HP Pioneer engine with 2.5:1 redrive and 44" prop doesn't produce that much less static thrust as a factory 185. Using a redrive and those big props on these Hondas, you should be getting much better performance than a 185, not 10% or so! BTW, are these real Honda engines or Chinese clones? (Chappy in Virginia)

[@19pete38]

Hi Chappy...good to hear from you...yes these are real Hondas...the left engine will turn at 5200+ and the static thrust calculator says it takes 15hp to drive them (44x24) at this speed..2.0:1.0625..the rt engine however was only turning a bit over 5050 when l got them from Gerard Stinissen last fall and l'm having trouble getting much over 5000 static now , with a new placement carb installed.. l'll tear it down this fall and see what's going on...compression seems good but it has always blown oil out the valve breather.. I'm looking forward to flying it down to the UPAC convention this weekend at Lubitz Field ..45 miles or so..

[@flyitandbikeit]

I would love to attend again, but it won't happen this year. Maybe next, that would be the Lazair's 40th. anniversary, right? Take care, and have fun.

[@vijayakumarT.]

Gave good information.... 👍

[@Armilite1]

What hrs do you have on them now? What GPH are you getting? What Speed and Flight Time on 5 Gallons?

[@19pete38]

hi Armilite...sold that Lazair back a few years ago now...was sure pleased with the way they performed...total engine time a bit over 50 hrs..they'd turn up about 5200 for takeoff and give about 50mph level flight...4500 give a good 40 mpl cruise, and 4000 cud putter around in low 30's...easy on fuel too...flew 3 and 1/2 hrs with 3 take offs and still had over a gal left in the tank.

[@Armilite1]

How many Hours on your GX200's now?

[@19pete38]

about 65 now...runnin good..

[@Armilite1]

@@19pete38 Can I ask what Brand of Oil you're using? Racers swear by Mobile 1.

[@user-Nemezis]

Hello, I'm curious what are the parameters of the propeller?

[@19pete38]

44x22 prop size, belt redrive is 2 to 1.0625..

[@SunilSundar]

Can I find plans for the lazair anywhere? thanks

[@cooperthompson4850]

how much does the airplane weigh?

[@19pete38]

250 lbs..

[@SunilSundar]

What's the take of speed of a Lazair?

[@19pete38]

takes off low 20's... lands @ 28 or so...power on stall a bit under 20 mph..

[@SunilSundar]

@@19pete38 Thank you

[@doraexplora9046]

A proper expansion exhaust will make a big difference compared to those restrictive tubes. Better less restrictive intake filter with longer entry will increase torque.

[@trungphamquang8126]

Hi Peter,I see you've been upgrading the gx200s, I wonderd why you decrease speed of engine

[@19pete38]

Reducing power is easier on the engine, makes it last longer, use less gas, and running the motors at full throttle only translates to a relatively small gain in mph.. if you mean to slow the prop speed relative to the engine... a larger, slower turning prop is a lot more efficient...

[@Mike-ff7ib]

$1500 and its a 4stroke. Not bad. were did you get the prop and spinner?

[@Armilite1]

Are Plans available for the Belt Drive? Any off the shelf parts used for Belt Drive? What ratio did you use?

[@robertchapman3481]

Peter, Did you sell this plane and engines?

[@19pete38]

Hi Bob...yes..sold it a couple years ago to Capt David Vincent from Long Beach, Ca ..l've recently bought a ser 2 to do some more 4 stroke engine experimenting with.. you still flying your pioneer redrives l hope?

[@rawandgaming7113]

price honda gx200???

[@Athrong6788]

What is the HP engines can we use for paragliding 2 seater?

[@DhanyShadowSport]

What rpm is it?

[@19pete38]

full power 5300, cruise 4600, psru 1.0625:2

[@GarnettM]

Gee those mechanical Tillitson carbs sure can be miserable though if the diaphram gets weak on you , Seems like nice flyer , Hows the side to side wobble on cross winds with that big duel rudder ? Ps That`s amazing at only 6 Hp .

[@StrsAmbrg]

What is the type of belt and the pulley you are using?

[@K_M_M_G]

Great video, do you question the reliability? Also do you question the reliability after using aftermarket parts? How often do you plan on rebuilding them?

[@19pete38]

Reliability is of great concern..these modified honda type engines have been used for years by the go cart racing crowd with great success.. l am quite confident these modified engines will run as expected for hundreds of hrs, The only thing l might change would be the carbs..

[@K_M_M_G]

Thank you for commenting back. I have some experience with these in the Go-Kart world and you're right, they can be raced and abused with little issues. The only time I had issues was after the governor was removed, valve geometry not quite setup for the high revs. Will is glide if there is a failure? I recall in another video the motors added significant weight plus the steel mounts you needed to add five pounds of ballast to the rear.

[@19pete38]

the complete valve train is modified for higher rpms.. full takeoff power is 5300 rpm and cruise power at 4600.. the motors should stand that for years I'm thinking.. and yes it flys on one engine also..!! bonus..

[@K_M_M_G]

Very Cool! Be safe and take care.

[@19pete38]

Thanks for your interest and input ..

[@kakgamers4089]

how much HP for this engine ?

[@dityokurniawan2261]

Mr peter... what prop size u use??

[@19pete38]

44x24 with 2 to .875 belt reduction.

[@DerelictDan69]

Did you use belts for weight or is chain drive fine?

[@19pete38]

I think a chain drive should work fine, although lots of people say no..

[@SAGHAJAR]

You have done a great job but what are these engines ? They look like lawnmower engines.

[@19pete38]

Yep..just off the shelf Honda industrial engines..

[@TolaMan96]

Hi propeller 100cm?

[@dwayne1804]

how much power it takes to power a ultralight plane

[@vstol501]

What kind and size of props are you using?

[@DavethePilot]

How many hours is the engine rated for? Also, how far have you flown away from your residence on a flight? Thanks

[@19pete38]

Hi Dave.. these Honda motors are extremely reliable when used for the purpose they were intended, which is driving generators, air compressors etc. The racing go-cart people would be better able to answer your tbo question, but I don't see any reason why they won't be able to give reliable service for at least 250 hrs.. Stinnissen dismantled them last winter and couldn't discern any wear whatever after 25 hrs.. I realize that running them at higher rpm's than they were intended is going to reduce their life, but by replacing rods, valves, valve springs, rockers and lifters and cams with race quality parts, I feel the little engines will stand up to 5200 hundred full power and 4600 cruise with no difficulty... I'll pull them apart this winter and inspect them.. The longest continuous run was 1.2 hrs, for about 50 miles... I'm really quite pleased with them so far Dave, but time will tell, of course..!!

[@DavethePilot]

Thanks for your answer back Peter. Hope you enjoy those new Honda's. They sure seem to perform better....

[@choppergirl]

I bought two Chotia 460's about 15hp each for $99 total and I got a free plane with them. No redrive needed, or massive valve upgrades, so again, massive savings. Probably much lighter than that setup, and they use VW parts. At $50 an engine, I'm doing good :) Plan to score me some more just because... they don't make them anymore. alice.air-war.org

[@19pete38]

Wow..what a bargoon..!!! ..I'm looking for a reasonably priced replacement engine for the Lazairs, that's readily available and 4 cycle..

[@choppergirl]

Peter Harrison Lol, I think we all are... no one ever made any good 4 cycle small aircraft engines... I've seen some guys put RC radial engines on Lazairs, but expensive as F$$$. I guess I'll be sticking with the 2 strokes old snowmobile engines myself :-/ I rebuilt one of those Honda OHV GX200 clones myself just like yours, it's a neat little engine and easy to crank... not esp designed to be lightweight though with high hp/weight. If only someone could cast a different block for them... for aircraft use... with the redrive plate integral... and without the heavy ass flywheel to drive the spark (maybe an alluminum one?)

[@michaelpederson8030]

Where do I buy your engine setup

[@19pete38]

Michael Pederson engines are off the shelf..internal parts from nr racing....listèn to the clip mike..

[@АндрейСердюков-ч4о]

Hello Peter. Great video! Can you write a list of mods for Honda Gx200?

[@vionyanatasyaalmh276]

Top GX engine

[@josega6338]

What about INNengine 125 cc, 4 cylinder, 2-Stroke, 5 kg, 23 HP? The inverted V or 'A' tail unit in Lazair has the inherent defect it induces a nose-up force, always undesirable, while the V tail sends nose down, a safer attitude. The A Canard in some jet fighters of today do send down nose. Keep the safety up!

[@captaincrunch7944]

Wow cool build those engines only cost around $350 brand new

[@komangatmanadi6128]

Playing video???

[@revi6316]

Where if one engine dad

[@19pete38]

Watch this vid again revi ..l tell you there it still flys..

[@revi6316]

I,m sory,i from Indonesian..i Don,t can speaking English

[@revi6316]

May i study with you plane about

[@19pete38]

@@revi6316 the plane keeps flying on 1 engine..

[@revi6316]

@@19pete38 oke thanks

[@keithwilson1702]

Internal combustion engine. So I think they're engines.

[@abuhossain2377]

Plz Sir, Help Me...mm

[@lanesaarloos281]

Tillotson carburetors were absolute failures on Homelite chainsaws. A Tillotson carburetor on a Honda engine is mechanical sacrilege.

[@sciencetech949]

I think this engine is too heavy.

[@19pete38]

34 lbs..

[@mikeb.7068]

Play this at 1.5 speed and you can almost stand it.

[@19pete38]

lol

[@komangatmanadi6128]

Simpel engine. Great hahahaaa.

[@patrickpendergast898]

Damn this guy can’t talk. It’s like watching Biden talk.

[@markuscamenzind5510]

they look like chondas

[@scottwhite8036]

No offense my friend

[@scottwhite8036]

With your stuttering and stammering perhaps you shouldn't be flying

[@geostomp]

Mistake = Big Boom

[@thomasthompson405]

I think his narration is just fine 🙂 At least he is innovative with these engines on a Lazair 😊 I own a Lazair III ( my 2nd one ) and love them ❤