My Thoughts on Viper so Far - FFXIV Dawntrail

OF COURSE THE DAY I GO TO POST THIS THEY MAKE A LODESTONE POST TALKING ABOUT CHANGES FOR IT 😅
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[@maxvieira2595]

"Not every job needs to be for everyone", if only SE would take this into consideration when changing jobs.

[@rahee9482]

Theyve gutte dhealers to make them easier for people in easy content.... so instead of making healing fun for people who like playing healers they just made it brain dead....like if healing is too much of a challenge for you then...idk...dont play a healer??????

[@MoXfy_Milling]

Especially with the latest announcement that they'll "reduce the business" of it

[@leisuresuitlink]

I totally agree but selfishly, I wish this was the approach they took for older jobs and not newer ones. It feels bad going into old content with people leveling viper and it just draaaaags on because they have no idea how to play their shiny new class.

[@DragonWolf69]

I agree with this. I stick to DPS jobs because Tanking and Healing just aren't for me. But that doesn't mean I want those jobs dumbed down

[@titaspeza7980]

​@@leisuresuitlinkSo true. When i see my damage calculating minions telling me that new vipers/pictos are doing less damage than healer ON BOSSES it drags on quite a bit

[@skyhunterrhythe5674]

I had wildly more difficulty setting up my hotbar than I did learning the job, simply for trying to understand the action tooltips.

[@HyouVizer]

Same, a lot of the time my difficult was remembering which buttons turned into want to reapply my buffs lol. Seems like a faster samurai

[@GooberReborn]

They revealed some upcoming job changes, looks like theyre addressing positionals with viper. So we are probably either losing the combo finisher positionals or the two on the charge twinblade combo. As an old monk main, we just cant win with positionals

[@fortofeels578]

Where did you find the mention of job changes? I'm interested in looking into it

[@rahee9482]

Hopfully its off the twinblade combo because i just use true north for almost everyone of them anyway.

[@Deuzen_FIN]

I'll be baffled if they remove the positionals on the basic combo. The Charge Combo I could see being changed, either by removing the positional or adjusting the damage difference between base dmg and positional dmg.

[@Gatsby3737]

@@fortofeels578Lodestone

[@cashnelson2306]

Blows my mind how much they get rid of positionals. It’s the only unique feature FF melee classes have compared to similar games, and they seem… ashamed of it? I don’t get it. Casuals can ignore them and complete their normal raids just fine.

[@taranstones1798]

Pretty long comment but my thoughts are more than just a basic summary, so here they are. I decided to do PCT for the first half of MSQ and VPR for the second and they both feel really good to me, but this video is on VPR so that will be the focus. I get the job identity issues and I was pretty worried after seeing the media tour info about it being way too easy, but I think VPR ended up working fantastically. I have not done the extremes yet, but from just trying to optimize on what people cooked up before release, the floor is not too high to pick up on, and the ceiling feels achievable but also high enough to feel great to execute. I feel like the high number of positionals when combined with the ability to delay their use through tools like Rattling Coil and Reawaken, and even Dreadwinder, makes it feel really fun. The rotation is fluid enough to let you choose, to an extent, when you want to use a positional, while also putting pressure on you to maintain your many buffs and ensure you still have to hit them eventually. The use of Rattling Coil as an uptime tool as well as a positional/rotational adjustment tool makes it feel like a decision you have to make on when you should use it for the best effect, which is a breath of fresh air coming from EW job design. I hardly even had to use True North to hit all my positionals throughout the entire MSQ. It feels great and I don't think they need to change it at all, although a defensive skill would feel nice. Which is why I am not exactly pleased to read the job update notice where they claim too many positionals is a problem. People haven't even had the job for a week and they are already changing it when people haven't had the time to get a real feel for it. The team should stick to their guns on this one and be proud of what they have made. Not all feedback from the community is good feedback (2 minute meta anyone?) and the devs need to let the situation develop more before they alter things based on knee-jerk reactions from people who probably won't even play the job for the majority of the 2.5 years DT will be out.

[@tcg2717]

I legit can't fathom you saying "high number of positionals" when literally the only times you have to do positionals are the 3rd regular combo GCD and the Coil GCD. Which adds up to 2. TWO scenarios where you have to do positionals. That's not high, lol.

[@taranstones1798]

@@tcg2717 Seems you are missing the point... VPR has a very fast GCD which means you are going through that 1-2-3 faster which means more positionals than a slower job like DRG. This alone means it has more positionals than most, but on top of that, each 1-2-3 being an opposite positional every single time, unlike something such as MNK which is an opposite positional every FOUR times means VPR needs to actually move between flank and rear more often than MNK which basically just parks itself on the flank. And if you aren't actually moving to hit your positionals, then they aren't impacting how the job plays. And this doesn't even touch on twinblade combo adding even more and again, forcing you to move position by being opposites immediately after each other. The closest comparison is to RPR with Gibbet/Gallows after Gluttony, but that is twice every 2 minutes, compared to VPR's three every 2 minutes. It has more positionals than any other melee. It's just a fact.

[@cattysplat]

@@taranstones1798 It does remind me a ton of old monk positions. Which is fun for those that enjoy that constant movement but bad for those who struggle to learn the positional combo order and movement all the time.

[@dootdootington386]

Combines two swords and attacks fast is a valid job identity. Monk swaps stances and punches. Ninjas use ninjutsu between dagger fighting. I'd say the simple job identity is good. Cause it's all I want

[@vazzaroth]

I don't think they actually nail that tho. Right now it's "swings two swords around wildly a lot, and occasionally for seemingly no reason the animation changes a little into a staff for .5 seconds". Unless it changes significantly post 90, I don't get why they even have the sword staff in the class at all. An indicator for a single OGC that you throw in ASAP after a combo? Ok. Or you use it a bit more when you AoE. ok. But why? They do the exact same things every other class does (have a big hitter, and do AoE rotations) but for no particular reason it's just a different switch-weapon for some of it. There's nothing I can think of that make me go "Oh, NOW I have my swordstaff out!" compared to the dual swords. Even Reaper nails this 2-phase thing infinitely better with the darkness mode. I expected something along these lines but it's so sad we didn't get it. It seems like it's just a 'slightly varied visuals button' you occasionally interact with mindlessly as part of a standard rotation.

[@Dark-uj2jq]

i absolutely love the speed with viper it's genuinely hard to go back to other melee dps jobs for me just because how slow they feel by comparison

[@xTyith97]

Viper just makes my monke brain go brrr. I love it, so easy to play too

[@amethonys2798]

I agree that reading the tooltips gets you way too lost in the sauce. Even on the first job quest where they tell you to effectively do all the combinations of the 1-2-3 you are better off just going in blind and hitting buttons and eventually getting there because having to go through all the tooltips figuring out what leads to what is just not worth the time nor the effort since in the end it doesn't "matter" what 2-1-2 does.

[@JJMomoida]

Yeah I honestly feel like we've reached the point where SE is better off straight up *actually* putting in flowcharts for jobs that have branching combos lol.

[@lynxcomplex3099]

@@JJMomoida I would love this idea a chart that just shows what is "enhanced" by what

[@OrionXIXI]

It also doesn't help that like 80% of viper's abilities aren't even assignable to the hotbar, so even if you do read them, you don't necessarily know or understand where they are in your rotation for the information to be that helpful in practice. They really need something like a basic action flowchart for procs that aren't assignable, because their tooltips and trait descriptions are very little help generally.

[@ThatGaymer]

@@OrionXIXI This is what I dislike. I feel like if I could just layout the attacks on my hotbars as I wanted it'd be so much easier to understand.

[@jesserebelo3583]

​@@OrionXIXInope, learn what your abilities do, always, flowcharts are stupid if you dont understand the logic behind them, it sets you up to hate the job and the devs the second Something changes

[@Harrowing999]

The rest of the dps still feel like they have a 2min buff window. Like they have to pool around that time, but Viper feels like the it’s pedal to the metal at all times. It makes me goody good chemicals flow for me the entire time and I haven’t been getting bored of it at all. It is so much fun

[@kimaru135]

I am definitely a lover of this job as im just in full button press mode at all times

[@sqoops8613]

honestly coming from monk the lack of personal defensives hasnt really bothered me because of just how good bloodbath is on this job.. ive already saved myself from dying so many times by using it right before a reawaken or uncoiled fury

[@avi3365]

Your description of the job being 'always on' is about how I feel about it as well. Not hard, but I barely ever feel like I'm doing 123 combos. I can't believe they are making the job even easier in the coming patches... face palm its already easy enough to play.

[@michielmanders9766]

Thats the way is going sadly. Summoner should've made that very clear. From one of the most complex jobs to one a chimpansee can play.

[@Eric-ih5mb]

​@@michielmanders9766it wasn't complex pre EW, it was janky and bloated. A lot harder than the current version but it was never a big brained class.

[@michielmanders9766]

@@Eric-ih5mb No, this is FFXIV, there are no big brained classes. These things are relative, of course. So relative to most others, SMN was more big brained than most, instead of the polar opposite it is now. Janky and bloated is subjective, I didn't find that at all.

[@michielmanders9766]

@@Eric-ih5mb If you genuinely think SHB SMN was not a lot more complex than the current iteration or most other jobs at the time, I advise you to take some anti-psychotic medication, because that is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. I do agree is was janky though, but these things can coexist. Also, no class in ffxiv is or ever has been, big brained, so we''re talking relativity here. Compared to most other jobs, it was big brained.

[@thedarkness490]

I'm happy that you mentioned that viper feels like its always "on", or the way I put it "always bursting". Because I absolutely felt like I was fucking up somewhere

[@SapphireDragon357]

I actually find it hard to keep my Venom buffs for the combo finishers, because there's always so much I could be doing. It's not difficult to go 40s without a 123 combo with all the fun buttons and lose Venom.

[@MrStopTrollin]

@@SapphireDragon357Tip, dread fang >> dread winder combo >> reawaken. Gnash for most of its max duration and two fresh buffs for the whole blue flaming goodness. I always keep one charge of dreadwinder waiting just for reawaken to keep everything moving. Not sure if it’s the most optimal but it keeps my dopamine (and buffs) up each time. 😊

[@tylerstewart3181]

​@you can refresh the first part of your 123 combo to keep the buff up and then go into reawaken without losing your position in the 123 combo. You'll never lose the damage buff that way. SapphireDragon357

[@SapphireDragon357]

@@tylerstewart3181 Wrong buff. You're talking about noxious gnash, I'm talking about finisher venom.

[@Gooblegorf]

I have a 100 vpr and i’m pretty happy with it. The only thing that bothers me is that I have a comfortable keybind layout that becomes somewhat awkward when using reawaken’s combo.

[@FinalFantasy7Re-]

Ya I feel that

[@andrebastos3785]

I kinda mirrored your opinion on first contact with vpr, I tried reading the skill descriptions before I started pressing buttons and I kinda hated it, then I just started hitting a striking dummy and it felt reaaally good. They overcomplicated the hell out of the descriptions for these skills its ridiculous, but I love the job. Since drk has dam near no changes for the 3rd expansion in a row with its basic ass 1 combo I'm just gonna stick with vpr, pally and maybe some sam in there

[@DacianGradaMusic]

as sad as the positionals change was, i wasn't that surprised because we're losing them a lot lately. I was ready to have none of them in DT, too. I'm super glad with how Viper is now, I hope they keep this selfish DPS because it's my favorite type of job to play. Can't be blamed for something you can't help with! :D Surprisingly enough, with the longer cast times it's also pretty ping friendly, at least for me (NA server, from EU) and it feels smoother than Reaper to play. I can see myself playing it for a while and be... happy.

[@nyctoscythe]

Awesome video, Happy. I absolutely love Viper, and I was playing Reaper all last expansion. It just has some special sauce. I think precisely the "always on" is what makes it truly engaging for the first time, being an ex wow player. Feeling like I'm just playing the job at all times instead of waiting on a buff window to feel like I'm having fun is something I wish more jobs employed.

[@robe-ot6105]

This is exactly the feel I always wanted on a job in FFXIV. I want to push my buttons the whole time and reawaken is just enough for variability in play for me. I don't want any changes to it. The positionals are easy with true north so idk why people care about the positionals. having 0 slow points in the rotation is the entire of point of this job so if they change that ill be very dissapointed.

[@gmb3682]

I hope they give most of its weaponskills 3 yalms instead of 0 yalms. It makes disengagements feel kind of bad and having to burn a 600 potency GCD when something is within arm's length seems a bit silly.

[@lyconxero457]

The lack of a defensive is really the only thing I don’t like about Viper. It’s the only job I’m leveling now that actually struggles to do FATEs as it easily pulls a bunch of mobs with all its AOEs yet takes a ton of damage that my Chocobo can’t keep up with. By comparison, I LOVE doing FATEs on Pictomancer as it has the same thing with AOE but it hits so hard that mobs absolutely MELT giving me time to prep again.

[@Parkadilo]

If you're above level 90, Bloodbath + Reawaken actually makes you a MONSTER for self-healing. I've had the tank die during an expert roulette, and I was able to maintain a large pack of mobs while taking almost no damage. Although, if you're below level 90... yeah, your survival capabilities are a lot worse.

[@kuronaialtani]

Even samurai gets third eye/tengetsu and reaper gets arcane crest Viper having no defensive, period, definitely makes things interesting in a pinch

[@kalancosta7650]

@@ParkadiloI second this I have done this as well

[@aaronwoods-lee7700]

Lmao. I also looked for a defensive forever thinking “there must be something here right? No? Hmm”

[@cry5388]

It’s funny cause in pvp they gave viper a really cool defensive

[@deefour28]

Haven’t had a chance to play dawntrail yet because I broke my laptop immediately after buying the expansion, but once it’s fixed I’m really looking forward to how much more involved some of these dungeon bosses are looking

[@CRXII]

Current viper main done 1st ex got decent scores working on them im enjoying the job so far its fast but easier to keep up with barely have to look at hotbars from how comfortable it gets after learning it’s just the positional can be annoying in certain fights without true north but the speed and the pace was what I was looking for

[@pantsupandemic]

Viper feels amazing and I pray that Squeenix uses it as the bar of quality for dps classes going forward.

[@ampur2]

imagine having 2 swords and doesnt have active parry cd, what a missed opportunity

[@celphalonred1999]

You parry automatically. Good enough for me

[@mattp994]

I was hyped for the Zidane job, like I was with Gunbreaker. But Viper just feels so one-dimensional to me, 20 combo weaponskills that all just have generic snake themed names. It feels like it's missing half it's kit. Ninja has Mudra, Monk has Chi, Samurai has Kenki, Viper has 7 empty hotbar slots.

[@vazzaroth]

I was playing Paladin after a long break in the expac and was soloing the last 10% of a boss after everyone died. I was desperately searching my hotbar but all my damage mit was on cooldown and the tankbuster was incoming. I said to my wife on call "I'm screwed... WAIT!" and noticed... DIVINE SHIELD! The party wide shield. So I did that, survived, and killed the boss. Sometimes it does payoff to search desperately lol, but yea, not with viper. Even Samurai has Third Eye, one of my favorite skills of all time to both reward mitigation and actually defend yourself. That little bit of agency really helps. I sorta wish Viper had a 'stop and block' like paladin but maybe only for self. You can hold it for up to like 10 seconds, but obviously the longer you stop stab-stab-stabbing the less DPS you do.

[@kuronaialtani]

As it stands I've been having an absolute blast with Viper Everything I hoped and wanted since it was revealed Plays like a monk-dancer-reaper love child and I love it Hope the changes coming aren't too serious, if anything I want more to play with in it

[@ApexGale]

Literally what is so difficult about this job? If the icon is green go to the side, if the icon is red go to the rear. You literally don't even need to manage uptimes, just about every single combo refreshes buff uptime. And the icons are always flashing so you ALWAYS know which buttons you need to press next. I'm already kind of salty they dumbed down Monk by removing Demolish DoT and Disciplined + Leaden Fist. If you can't handle the job, just don't play it. If you want to play the job, deal with it. It's that simple. It would be like removing mudras from Ninja because you're expected to remember the combos, and just making each Ninjutsu its own button with a separate cooldown for them. Just leave the job alone, it's fine!!!

[@jonesy9744]

The reading thing is too true. I probably spent 30 minutes trying to make sense of all the job actions when I unlocked the job to see how things should go on my hotbars. Damn near couldn't make heads or tails of what procs what. Just said fuck it, slapped everything unlocked onto the bars and went to a training dummy. Granted I've only got it at like level 84 right now, but so far feels pretty damn easy. Pick one of the 2 openers, click the dotted ones (or dont because even if you hit the wrong one the combo still goes), red moves are rear positionals, green ones are flanks, and they always alternate. Intuitive with no button bloat. Curious to see how the job feels at 90 and 100.

[@Lunar_Yojimbo]

🤔 probobly compete with samurai dps or the same as samurai dps 😅 Thank you for info and have good days 🍻

[@OldManInternet]

As someone who's been enjoying dragoon in Dawntrail, there's room for a defensive. Even if they didn't just clear a space with dragon eye, we'd have found a spot lol

[@raarasunai4896]

Viper is a fun one! I’m still getting used to it. The number of times I’ve forgotten to hit the oGCD after the third combo hit 😂

[@Atiredproblem]

Been a mnk main since ARR, thoroughly enjoyed rpr last go around, honestly vpr marries the two with a dash of Overheat. I can see exactly where most people can be put off by the job, and it may drop off in popularity as every new job does, but I intend to stick with it. That feeling of ‘rpr-but-weaving’ is exactly what I wanted from it. ((Also a selfish dps so the only muscle memory required in a raid is counting to Lightwyrm Trance for that sweet sweet brain juice to spike.))

[@lbstyles86]

The Viper changes are insane. The whole thrill and fun associated with the job is it's apm which is thanks to it being busy. If you don't like it, play a job that's not so busy. There are a multitude of jobs to play. As for positionals, we have True North. I don't see the issue lol. Honestly I'm a bit afraid they'll slow the job down and that it won't be as exciting anymore. It's nice feeling like you're strong ALL the time and not only during Reawaken

[@DonaldTurner]

thanks brother!

[@aphilli97]

They better not ruin the busyness of viper

[@jameysotelo540]

Ive been loving the heck out of viper its a bit sad that i ended up joining my friends static and they already had a member lock it in before i joined i want to raid with it but sadly cannot at least for this tier

[@soulechelon2643]

I'm enjoying Viper but not max level as I'm taking my time. But yeah totally agree on the lack of buffs making the class feel "off" during rotations. The lack of a defensive skill brings it down for me a bit too, especially since Viper feels squishier than a number of the other melee dpses. My biggest gripe though is their dodge ability. Why is it target only? Pictos can use their dodge ability whenever they want. Somehow, some way, a painter has more mobility than a dual swordsman. Amazing. Legit hope this changes. 7:10 I don't usually dive into alot of the general talk/gossip/etc about FFXIV so I'm glad as a Dragoon main other Dragoons have also been wanting a defensive ability. Whenever I switch to drG from Reaper or Sam (my other two favorite melee dpses) I feel like a fish out of water just sitting there waiting for a boss to throw their nuke. My biggest wish is for the devs to implement a "Jump" ability that also creates an invulnerability buff during its animation, and if that's too op - just a defensive buff similar to Sam's or Reaper's. Dragoons throughout the FF franchise have been able to "Dodge" attacks this way and I'd be dancing in the streets if they gave us such an ability.

[@assassinszero7037]

In my opinion, the first impression is, dont read tooltips, they suck, my self defensive is that if im not using pot i have hp potions on the bar because dear god i need hp, and i love the flow of the class and cant wait to nail a good general rotation

[@cattysplat]

Only thing I don't like about Viper is the somewhat generic sound effects. Every other job I know what me and my party exact attacks are doing, but viper is just jingly clashing noises all the time. It all just blurs together

[@medekhgui]

I main dragoon, and no other melees. I didnt notice viper was missing defensives.

[@Alwayz114]

I think some comments go a little too hard, but I am a little confused on your opinion. Like I thought being less reliant on 2 minute windows is a good thing, but it seems you feel it's bad or awkward? And I suppose this is all vibes, but I think the flavor of the job is pretty good too so when you repetitiously say the flavor is poor I dont really see why? I like the rapidity and chaos of the job, and its almost more of a Priority ststem rather than a Roation, which I like a lot. Also while it fits into 2 Minute Meta it doesnt itself propagate the meta, if that makes sense. I do 100000% agree that the lack of defensive feels crazy. The lore is that its a beast hunter. What kinda beasts am I hunting that I dont need any defensives lol. Sorry about some comments being pretty extra

[@evilclyde]

Yeah I tried it for a bit and then got right back on Reaper

[@boringfactor8792]

Viper is smn +

[@MrBmondaca]

The problem i have with the job or shouldni say the problem i will probably have with the job, is the big posibilty of burn out an dont get me wrong the job hits that kirito dual sword epicness and i feel like the main character when those awakenings hit chefs kiss. My issue is how the enjoyment factor of 200 mph after a long period of time. Love the job but maybe be not for me and speaking for me juat to rmeon deveryone hahah

[@SLAUGHTERAMA]

I’m just gonna stick with Red Mage.

[@distantworlds3308]

Wow 80to 100 in one day. I’m not 100 on anything yet. Good job!

[@Halinspark]

I'll probably stick with Ninja because I really like having all the ninjutsu as ranged options instead of dagger throw, but something about Viper is latched into my brain. I just feel this need to understand it.

[@Kaze91]

I love Viper as it currently is, i do not want it to be nerfed in busyness or complexity. If you dont like the job, thats fine, but for those of us that do, i doubt most of us want it to be gutted or for the fun of the class to be nerfed. I really really do not want them to do this and have no idea who the heck is wanting this. Edit:this is in reference to the job changes coming and not necessarily fully Happy's video here. I think what he said is fair and its not for everyone. But it is for me.

[@Fain255]

The sound effects sound almost all the same, I wish they made each skill more slashy and unique sounding

[@cr082080]

My issue with the job is that below lvl 90 they may be the most boring class in the game to play because so much of their identity is locked away till 90 and up.

[@JJMomoida]

I think this is sadly an issue a lot of jobs have since a good number of their job-defining abilities are backloaded.

[@HyouVizer]

it's the basic bitch of melee. Or melee Summoner. It has 2 or more copies of same attack one after the other to give the illusion you're doing something when it's the same thing 2-5 times. Since the animations are so fast and stylish, that counteracts how simple it all really because it for the sake of looking cool. My nitpick is, you can't physically nor mechanically tell when it's dual wielding, or dualsword forms at all rolling through your GCDs, and double weaving. It's just all fast all the time looking like a blur.

[@b3ardedragon921]

My thoughts are they shouldnt have skipped a new tank class.

[@Ventus777777]

Top meme for that description

[@Levi_Skardsen]

I main samurai, and I'm looking at viper as an alt so that I have two pure DPS. I love the gameplay of viper, but the lack of defensive is putting me off.

[@JMP7656]

I'm a Monk / Nin main so I love fast jobs and was really hoping to enjoy Viper, but it kinda ending up disappointing me. Its the first job I got to 100 and it definitely can be fun to press glowy button go fast brr, but the lack of any kind of utility buttons, defensive, and lack of a real unique defining "mechanic" kinda soured me towards it. I was really hoping the dual wield / twinblade thing would be an actual gameplay mechanic with a stance swap or something, or maybe lean into the whole snake aesthetic and give it DoTs.

[@MrStopTrollin]

The dual blade not being a mechanic was disappointing to me. I was hoping for something more than just an animation change. Which frankly can be hard to even tell which style you are using with how fast you are attacking and how many slash lines are flying everywhere.

[@cattysplat]

Definitely feels like I'm just playing reaper again, but faster with weaker hit like a monk.

[@Scerttle]

6:55 It feels bad on 165 ping ngl

[@Drewbacca7789]

First, I want to say, I have not used the job yet so take this with a grain of salt. When I first saw Viper, I was not impressed. When Haps says, the job didn’t have an identity, I felt the same way. Not so much regarding the way it plays, but by the aesthetic of the job. Every FF job, whether it’s in 14 or in other games in the series, always have a sort of special look to them. Most jobs have their own aesthetic and color theme to them. For example: PLD is the Holy white knight with the heavy armor and white/silver/light blue aesthetic. White mage has the all white and red robe, black mage has the hat with the long black robes etc…you guys get the point. Even jobs that sort of debut in 14 like GNB and AST have this aesthetic to them that is very special and unique. Vipers aesthetic and color scheme on the other hand, seems very plain and bland. Even the jobs starting armor looks almost like Bozjan armor, not very unique at all. The color scheme is what? Brown and leather? The armor they start with looks like any other outfit I guess is what I’m saying. Other than the aesthetic, my next gripe is the jobs name. Viper is also a very basic sounding name. It’s named after a type of snake which feels very not so FF to me. You have awesome names like Astrologian, Corsair, White Mage, Blue Mage, Red Mage, Pictomancer, Dark Knight…and then Viper… I would have been good with something simple but more effective like Twin Blade, Duelist, or Specialist. Those are my two gripes with the job still to this day. I have a feeling I’ll love playing the job and the way the abilities look when you use them, looks amazing so I might have to get over the aesthetic and identity gripe.

[@Karn0010]

I'm loving Viper. Gives me a lot of ARR and HW MNK vibes, no particular time of power like NIN (Only other job I've leveled to 100), its just on. I've no issues with the positional or how busy the job feels, probably because of NIN and GNB. I hope the changes don't gut the job honestly. If it is just taking positionals away from Dreadwinder, okay but no needed imo. Especially with how dungeon bosses are now, I don't want to see them take stuff away. I missed that about MNK from ARR and HW, hitting the positionals, facing the target and staying in range for autos. The little things that you could do that others didn't. I hate seeing them lower the ceiling for jobs, let people like me show skill by doing those things.

[@MoXfy_Milling]

For me everything about viper I love. Ever since I started back in late ARR, my biggest issue was that none of the dps identity I could really latch on to, as besides Dragoon, which has been my staple dps since I started, none of them really had a western identity, like we got monk, samurai and ninja, who all were asian based melees. Reaper came along and does have a sorta mix between the two, and I've enjoyed it, but it didn't catch what I looked for like Viper does. And in terms of gameplay, viper as we have it is exactly what I've wanted, fast pased, relatively easy to pick up, and god I love the double weaving. Like you the only fault I can really find is the lack of defensive.

[@vazzaroth]

That 'always on' feeling is a great way to say it, but that's why I've found I don't like this class very much. I thought it might be my #1 since I usually dual wield whenever possible in games, but it feels like a psychotic whirling dervish on meth, not the parry-riposte-counterstrike-flourish Two-weapon fighting I would have expected. I guess I kinda wish this was a tank, perhaps, but oh well. I was really looking forward to being in two specific stances, the two and the swordstaff... but the swordstaff is, imo, ENTIRELY under-utilized. I can't even tell what the point of putting that mechnaic into the game is since it's just, afaict, just an indicator that you can press finisher. Hooray? i realized it's basically melee dancer class with buff management instead of procs. I guess I'm finding out I prefer procs out of the two. IMO, it's only 80% baked. It's slightly undercooker as far as design go but there's always going to be people claiming everything is fine, but if you ask my pattern recognition, it just doesn't fit in with the rest of the game, in a bad/underserved way, not in a unique, 'carving your own niche' way. It feels like a small sliver of Samurai mixed with a quarter of Dancer and a splash of dragoon but with none of what makes ANY of those classes fun. And the fact that it's cousins to the ninja feels so strange. Ninja has a slew of tricks in it's bag, and playing it well means you can swap between AoE, buffs, big damage spikes, and raid utility fluidly. This, instead, is just you having a weird little kirito RP flippy and sparkly fantasy off to the side from everyone else which I guess, now that I think about that, appeals to it's target audience for this, huh.

[@cashnelson2306]

8:45 This is a game-wide issue. Tooltips are impenetrable in this game, when they even exist (it’s absurd to me as a multi-game raider that enemy abilities have no tooltips). The number of references to buffs that are only mentioned 3/4 through a different ability’s long-ass tooltip is.. staggering. They really need to add a section showing buffs/resources and which abilities provide them on the job actions screen. Hyperphantasia on PCT is a good recent example - finding out what that actually does and where it comes from is just weirdly obtuse for such a simple (and core) mechanic.

[@shinakuma3911]

Job isn't for you, fair, but it doesn't make it boring. As a dual sword maniac, this job speaks to my soul, its the embodiment of fun, the aggressive always on mode hits the spot like no other. I've played warrior since ARR for lack of a dual blade job, ninja isn't quite the berserker warrior, this is it. Melting it into the mundane homogenous 2 min buff window recipe like Literally Every Other Job, Does not make it fun, the adrenaline filled battle maniac mode for it suits it extremely well , I did not expect such a fun combat and satisfying animations and sounds from ffxiv and i'm impressed. I'm biased cause I waited for such a job since release. there is 16 DPS jobs and 4 tanks and 4 healers. Some tea shops don't even have 24 flavors. If its not your cup of tea please leave it alone.

[@SushiBurritoPapi]

Couldn’t agree more. This job hits the power fantasy I’ve been seeking for years from this game. I love Ninja, but it’s not everything I wanted out of the class. Viper is everything to me.

[@shinakuma3911]

@@SushiBurritoPapi Exactly my thoughts, ninja is still that dagger sneaky job, not quite the same. I think it speaks to some of us. And those it does it hits home

[@BlakeAustin2011]

@@shinakuma3911It reminds me of Machinist and Dark Knight and Astrologian in that it speaks to a very niche group of players. Astro has been reduced in complexity to appeal to a wider array of players, but this does feel very niche. It feels like the Sword Art Online job that appeals to an anime crowd (not knocking, I love that anime).

[@shatteredakuma]

Holy shit lol come off it

[@galath9242]

Same. Felt absolute dread after reading patch notes. At this point I am convinced that Yoshida’s talk about job changes in 8.0 is genuine shizo delusion and not pr talk. As if they have been lying to community for so long they started to believe their own lies

[@Darkstarjedi]

I’m just dumb ass casual player on console, so of course I’m a Reaper main and I feel your description of viper is a little unfairly……denigrating. I will never be an “Endgame” player or “Hardcore Raider” so I play a job I can do a decently well at and enjoy, as well as look good. I’m a simple old man (49 with not great reflexes) with simple tastes. Give me a sexy woman (Bungirl) with flashy moves and blades that go brrrrr like a GAU-8 (A-10) and damage that goes BOOM!! Samurai never quite hit the spot but Reaper did and I agree the “always on” aspect of Viper truly keeps me on my toes (I agree I must stop focusing on my controller hot bars). Please don’t see this as hate as I truly and genuinely respect your opinions even if I don’t always agree, hence watching your content though I adamantly believe Viper should gets Reapers Arcane Crest and Arcane Circle plus a version of Egress (Call it slide so as a pair its Slither and Slide) That’s enough of this old man shouting at the sky but I’ll end (finally) with a little hot take in defence of us true casual players: NO CASUALS: NO GAME 😜

[@ozawashere]

Yeah reading the abilities sucked and i was missing my 3rd eye.

[@hennyzhi2261]

I kind of hope they just rewrite the tool tips before doing anything drastic like removing positionals. Because the new system of the game sort of back seating you and saying "yo, you should push this next" alongside those cumbersome descriptions just tell me they don't even know the job all that well themselves - if they did they could come up with a simple way to get across the core idea of how it works. Which yeah, its a new job with allot going on but stripping something down immediately because people are frustrated with is disheartening. Isn't that what they did with summoner way back when? I wasn't there for it but apparently the changes became so drastic that it essentially became nothing like it was before - even bypassing the argument that some people like more challenging jobs or easy to play jobs.

[@themyriasphereorigins1707]

I played viper tell 100 and as paining reaper last expansion I a little disappointed viper feels far weaker then reaper and you can tell almost right away

[@BargodeProductions]

In portuguese we call this "passar pano"

[@xkmto]

as a ninja main, i really wish i liked viper. the dual blades are pretty cool, but it feels... uncomfortable to use? the business and keeping track of everything (noxious gnash on 20 seconds instead of 30, where i am in the combo, using dreadwinder and uncoiled fury on time, positionals on the second step of the combo instead of a specific location in my keybinds, etc) made me get lost in my rotation when progging the ex, even though the fights aren't really anything crazy. i also found keybinding the job really frustrating and ended up having to duplicate buttons, which is fine, but kind of defeats the anti-button bloat design of the job. i haven't really had any of these issues when trying out the other melees in the past. besides TCJ uses in ex1 the fights felt a lot more comfy on ninja, but that's probably just because i played through the last two expacs on it. seems insane to me that people are calling the job easy. maybe i'm overthinking the optimization before getting used to the job.

[@cashnelson2306]

you are. don’t have to keep track of anything just hit glowy button, job plays itself

[@jackadam9348]

Green flank, red rare. Buff applied during dreadwinder + ogcd rotation. Reawaken is like the slower renzozuken of the gunbreaker. I actually wish the job can be quicker. Viper gameplay is like the combination of machinist and gunbreaker.

[@xkmto]

@@cashnelson2306 yeah i end up tunnel visioning on the hotbar and dying to stupid shit when i do that though. probs just need to bake it into muscle memory

[@dreamerryoumi2121]

​@@jackadam9348Oh, I usually go by the buffs that you get on the screen. When you get Hunter's Instinct you go flank. When you get Swiftscale you go rear. I'm not at home or on the game so I may have to look at the combo skills again.

[@CastDeathGames]

Tbis is why i like happy always gives it straight

[@VenganceAngel19]

i love the job but my 3 main problems are buff management with how frequent you get Uncoiled Fury and Reawakening, the 40s buffs and debuff fall off unless you're just staring on those bars and that creates horrible tunnel vision, how frequent you have to move to execute flank and rear positionals is insane, even pre-EW monk was less intensive on the positional than viper, and the double weaving is fun, but its so stressful on the fingers, ironically lvl 90 Reawakening was the relief from all of that, but then they get a oGCD on 100 xD

[@OrionXIXI]

Lol, when I got Reawakening at 90, I thought this feels kinda weirdly slow for the rest of this rotation. Then I looked at the level 100 stuff, and was just like ah ok. Even with the OGCDs, I still think Reawakening feels like a bit of a relaxer in the midst of the rest of the rotation, since the OGCD is just the one button each time. The rhythm of it feels nice and satisfying, and as a MCH player just kind of reminding me of Hypercharge.

[@dominic640]

what kind of player stares too much at the glowing buttons that they miss the aoe under them ...... 100% not me don't listen to my healer friend screaming at me it's all lies

[@h3lladvocate]

In havent watched MrHappy in a LONG time, but why does he look like he's taking hard drugs now? Are you ok dude?

[@TheKizz20]

Dang I’m early

[@Sevarid]

To me as a player of both WoW and FF this job feels so much beter than a lot of others I played mostly dragoon and reaper in prev expansions and while those are fine I always have the like this feeling that I wish WoW combat was in FF because to me it feels so much more fluid etc. and viper just hits that spot for me

[@SteveSmith-br3vu]

Braindead dps. Does grest damage, low effort. Whats the downside?

[@RockR277]

80-100 + extreme trials sounds insane to me. I'm glad I don't make content for this game.

[@shirox11]

I love VPR, I’m worried about the notice from SE. Not even a week and they’re already gonna make it a less fun job to play due to complaints.

[@Destii_p]

Wish they would do more unique stuff with jobs. I know it's a bit limited because of the combat system itself but if I look at other games such as BDO with 28 classes and each of them are very unique in playstyle and their identity, then I wish FFXIV would do the same. Just step outside of the good old system. ''Fill this bar and you can do that'', ''You can stack that and do this specific skill''. Besides the animation it's kinda the same. Give Monk a whole new skill setup to be a tank. Let Sage swap to DPS. Red Mage with more melee heavy skills than range/magic. Some sort of specialization but i guess streamlining everything is better/easier for the balance team.

[@Chihiro-Kikuchi]

Players are too stupid and whiny to deal with jobs that are actually unique.

[@jordancannon8208]

Hi there! You mention we live in a "2 minute window meta". I have never heard or seen anyone else talk about meta states in FF14, so I am just wondering if you could elaborate on that for me! To help give me more specific context, I main ninja. Thanks in advance!

[@Joshobeb]

Generally all Job's (big) burst phases and party buffs have a 2 minute cooldown. This creates an intentional design where everyone's rotation should be tied to that 2 minute window to maximize damage. For something like ninja specifically, this would mean that you want to try to activate Trick Attack (Kunai's Bane) and Mug (Dokumori) in tandem with other party buffs EXACTLY on time, while using your highest potency moves available in that provided window of overlapping buffs.

[@Cyiel568]

Every class in the game has a powerspike or a raid buff on a 120 CD. This is why FFXIV has a homogeneity problem right now.

[@garmmermibe5397]

All of the "most powerful" abilities for almost every job (not including things like Tank Invulnerabilties) are on 2 minute cooldowns (as of right now.) The abilities can either be party buffs or attacks. Some jobs have one or the other or both. Optimally, you want to use your 2 minute ability at the same time as everyone else so you're getting (or giving) as many buffs as possible for the most powerful attacks you or your party can deliver.

[@javiermontiero4982]

@@jordancannon8208 it means every job plays similarly. It's just rotations, lather, rinse, repeat. It's impossibly boring but there's hope on the horizon. The devs have acknowledged there's no room for job expression and they hope to eventually bring that back to the game. Though it'll take a long, long time.

[@kieragard]

It's really not useful unless you're in a high end raid. But with full party buffs, you easily do twice as much damage as normal.

[@celphalonred1999]

"A job for everyone is a job for no one" Dont change viper devs. Please

[@lucasrfma]

I really hated the way the skills are explained/laid out in the skill window too. I mean, every other melee has diagrams and shit and this doesn't. Also I don't like that they leave a lot of the class for after leveling up. I mean, I get it, in an mmo you want to unlock shit, not have it all available at once. But it's already starting at 80 out of 100.... For most existing content this class is boring AF. Just played a lvl 60 dg on it, had 7 buttons in total: 2 for ST rotation, 2 for AOE rotation, 1 for gap closer, 1 for the ogcd, 1 for ranged filler. That's basically 4 buttons to press during boss fights. Sure, number of buttons for standard combo doesnt matter much, but having only one ogcd that you always use after combo3 is really boring. No cooldowns to use in general.... at level 60. Most jobs today are boring at lvl 50 (and lvl50 matters to me because of alliance roulette) but are less boring than vpr at 60. If this trend continues, will each expansion bring jobs that are increasingly less desirable to use for roulettes? Or will they stop increasing the starting lvl for new jobs?

[@KyriaTheMystic]

As someone with autism, my very specific kind of autism makes Viper feel just incredibly jarring to play. Like, the 1-2-3 Rear, 1-2-3 Flank, 1-2-3A Rear, 1-2-3B Flank is like asking me to run a mile and then suddenly asking me to turn 180 degrees, and then back again, several times. The same with Dreadwinder and the OGCD's it's rear and flank proc going forward and then backwards. It just halts all of the momentum my brain has in processing my rotation and makes me have to look at my bar more than the fight, more than any other job I've played (and like many I have most jobs 80/90+). Like, the lore? Aesthetics? Gear? Sick. But the way they set up the combos for the 'reverse' rear and flank stuff just is such a hurdle for my brain specifically. Which wouldn't be as much of an issue if they'd just... remove positionals so all I had to do was remember what button to press and not ALSO need to activate the spatial part of my brain to try to connect the rear finisher with going to the flank and vice versa. Trying to be like 'Oh I have to be on the flank for this' when my brain is screaming at me 'THAT'S THE REAR POSITIONAL' when it's lit up to be a Flank now is just... overwhelming.

[@randomgenretalk8151]

I hope Downtrail is crossing the line with SE's job philosophy and backfires so hard that it breaks the cycle of making jobs more and more simple until they loose their soul and identity. It takes out all the fun and FF XIV has job design is one of the worst right now, it's style over substance and makes it hard to really enjoy.

[@professorr1822]

first!

[@HikingFeral]

Job too hard? - complain. Job too easy? - complain. Story too full of ancients? - complain. story has no ancients? - complain. Positionals are dumbed down? - complain. No positionals / too easy? - complain. improved graphics? - complain. old graphics? - complain. not enough diversity? - complain. too much diversity? - complain. too much focus on your character? - complain. story not about your character? - complain. too much scions? - complain. not enough scions? - complain. The FFXIV community are wet blankets.

[@cashnelson2306]

Wow, it’s almost like different people in a massive group have differing opinions!

[@galath9242]

and se is trying to ride both cocks🤣🤣🤣 Can they at least figure out for whom they are making the game, so I can decide whether I want to spend my time on it or not. They made a masterpiece of a job and now they are decimating it by listening to the irrelevant casual screeching. I payed 60cad only to have what I paid for taken away from me in 3 weeks…

[@RED_Theory038]

Not everyone has to be content with everything. Who knew?

[@patheticidiot]

​​​@@cashnelson2306Your counter argument would ring true, if not for the fact that most of the complaining, genuinely wasn't there whenever I started back in Heavensward and till the end of EW MSQ. There wasn't a lack of it mind you, there was some but... Not to the fucking degree and insanity it has escalated starting from the end of EW, (the actual expac and not the patches) and up until now. It's as if people realized how easy it is to gain attention by being negative, even about things there's literally no fucking reason to be negative or contrarian about, and made it their whoooooole fucking personality. Really makes you think huh? The only real answer to this is the fact that the community or fandom as some would call it has been also growing tremendously for the past few years, and as it is with almost all gaming online communities: the more popular and bloated it becomes the more it gets diluted and becomes a shell of the former self.

[@Ark_Nether]

We are completely justified in having complaints with a game we love and also to praise things we like. To be fair not every change will be well received by everyone a difference of opinion is to be expected.

[@javiermontiero4982]

The amount of comments already that are just saying, "your opinion is wrong and here's why... Because I like it." Is wild. Truly.

[@Cyiel568]

People seek for validation so... that's why you have this kind of reaction because it goes against them.

[@patheticidiot]

​​@@Cyiel568Or people just wanna express their genuine opinion? Society would be pretty fucking boring if there were no arguing ya know. And, if you've actually read some of the comments you'd realize how some of them are: "I politely disagree with you, however still respect your own opinion too, and in doing so desire to lay out my own passion for others to view", and some of the others being what you describe of: "Your opinion sucks because I like X thing, and here's how without actually acknowledging your opinion mine is better and maybe I'll also throw a few swear words in there or call you stupid or make a baseless presumption about you as well."

[@johnpang3576]

Viper is the class that monks play to validate themselves being "special"

[@dhekti]

The spoiler warning probably should have been in the thumbnail...spoiled me that first boss shown in the video. Anyway, loving Viper as well! The emptiness of the hotbars felt really jarring at first, but I'm getting used to it. On day 1 of early access I kept checking if I didn't miss any spells to put on my hotbar, over and over again lol

[@SushiBurritoPapi]

The giant manatee was a spoiler for you? Well congratulations because you never see it again.

[@dhekti]

@@SushiBurritoPapi yeah, I can't start Dawntrail MSQ yet, waiting for my new PC's repairs. I'm leveling jobs in the meantime on my old and bad PC. I might say fuck it and do MSQ on my old PC tbh, since I have no idea when my new PC will be ready and I'm too hype

[@LumpkinBoi]

not sure why you even clicked on the video to begin with? surely you didn't expect them to talk about the new job while exclusively showcasing its lvl 90 kit on endwalker dungeons right?

[@dhekti]

@@LumpkinBoi it's just about the intro only. Give a basic shot at the beginning so people have time to scroll down to hide the video, to listen only (that's what I did, I don't need to watch gameplay because I played viper too). But here it started into gameplay right away, no time to avoid it by scrolling Don't worry I'm not actually upset, it won't ruin my MSQ lmao. But ik some people are like that

[@cashnelson2306]

Jesus Christ dude the word spoiler means literally nothing at this point, doesn’t it

[@megakazuya123]

Viper and Pictomancer are low-skill classes, designed for people who are bad at the game but want to have fun. This is especially true for viper, which has virtually no rotations, procs on everything and can be played without even understanding the concept of "DPS". More importantly, it is impossible to tell when someone is using either class "correctly", due to the flashyness and similiarity of each move. Viper and Pictomancer are the only two classes that I felt no need to look up guides for. Lastly, this is not a coincidence. The overwhelming majority of people who play XIV are bad at XIV, this is a game in which carrying "high-level" players through low-level content is the norm and expected. Viper and Pictomancer came diring an era where every skill-based class was nerfed to the floor. This is SE basically admitting that the community is bad at the game and everyone should be embarrassed over it...

[@woodyblock]

Dude. I think you might play too much.

[@Ark_Nether]

So people are bad for playing a job they like right? 😂 God forbid people play what they like without being flamed by people like you. Every job has skill expression at high levels of play no jobs are designed for “bad players”.

[@SalemGreyFFXIV]

This is quite possibly the worst take I have ever seen lmao. Just because a job is "easy" that doesn't mean the person choosing to play it is "bad". It's fun to play, and it stylistically appeals to many people, myself included. You might wanna find some grass to touch, buddy.

[@Ark_Nether]

@@SalemGreyFFXIV well said!

[@tylerstewart3181]

Viper is perfect. The changes they plan to make are a massive mistake. If they turn it into another slow as hell job like the others ill literally quit.