A Review of the Dawntrail Job Changes

[@ioaffs]

personally I think black mages are made because pictomancer is so fun and colorful; it's reminding them of their youths.

[@alexander3283]

I disagree with your statement.

[@TheFrantic5]

Black mages were always able to paint. With the charcoal of their enemies.

[@1Mrstephen]

Trust, Black Mage mains are not jealous, envious or any other “ous” of Pictomancer.

[@donteddy1858]

black mages summoned demons and sacrificed people for it in their youth. nothing colourful about that ^^

[@xxJing]

Black Mages are mad because it was one of the few jobs that has complexity to it and the developers seem intent on removing meaningful choices from rotations and just having it be "memorize this sequence and don't deviate."

[@YoYakuman]

I am a Monk main who is upset because it is tradition to be mad every expac

[@Snowinmyears]

if not angy, how we monke?

[@snowdrifter6187]

We decided war is to strong so we deleted monk -ubi

[@licenetospam]

Monk is the real baserker

[@oweeb5909]

Never forget

[@VegnagunII]

BLM changes - absolutely hate that the thunder proc. has gone. Half the fun and skill with BLM is adapting to the procs and keeping bits on hand for when you need to move for mechanics. Basically the changes just railroad you into doing a 100% repeatable rotation - not talking about the weird and wonderful alt rotations, just some adaptive variation to the intended one. I don’t see how removing all random procs has any benefit. Also agree with the comments that harder jobs should do more damage - not silly amounts more, just enough to stroke your ego by being top after tanks on the aggro list

[@celeswylder748]

I wouldn't complain having one more body between me and death. XD

[@LightTheBlackMage]

I 100% agree. Part of the reason why I loved Sharpcast and EW BLM so much. I had so many options at my fingertips and now it’s just Fire 4 spam with no room for improvising.

[@PE2RO]

ShB ans End BLM was at its peak, now its gone and its just pure no fun and braindead rotation

[@peachmizuki]

SMN main here. I played back when "SMN is for casuals" was not true and still lament the days of complex dot weaving nad multi-target optimization, but I've resolved to let it go. The biggest complaint I have is that there are many, many janky elements of Summoner that are leftover from the job's inception back in 2.0 that still haven't been addressed, especially when playing SMN below level 60. It honestly feels like they couldn't find a good way to parcel out the abilities to make the job feel like it has a functional rotation before getting Dreadwyrm Trance. If the job really is meant for casuals and new players, I think it's *especially* important that the level-up process is clean and easy, and not just that it has a pretty butt-simple max level rotation. And to my knowledge, they still haven't fixed Physic.

[@nicholasaragon4126]

I've been playing for over 10 years, things change, I just roll with it. I play what feels good and I never one-trick "main" anything. Sometimes I shelf a job I love for most of an expansion, sometimes a job that feels bad early in an expansion gets fixed midway through. Just relax and push the buttons, no need to have a dedicated monogamous relationship with jobs.

[@cabanash4445]

Alleluja

[@ooperblownup]

People enjoy things differently 🤓

[@SiffusVera]

You are the most based person in the world

[@lyconxero457]

The point that I’ll disagree with you on as a long time SMN main is not that people necessarily thought that the job would all of a sudden become more complicated but instead that they would build more upon the new foundation they laid in Endwalker. Really, the main thing I wanted to see where three new regular summons for half the rotation. They could even mostly play the same with one focusing on big casts while the other two were more or less insta-cast spammers. They could’ve given these flashy new animations which gave the ILLUSION that the job actually played differently when it was more or less the same and the vast majority of current SMN players would have been satisfied.

[@devonshaw8935]

100% this. Job simplicity is a game wide problem at the moment and didn't really ever enter the equation for me at any point. The fact that shiva can't be summoned by level 100 or 5 expansions in is just amazingly silly. This is like one of 3 final fantasies where shiva cannot be summoned.

[@korpsmaninfantry7238]

@@devonshaw8935you really wanna disgrace our girl after all the work she put in during heavensward? Let her be, she’s useable in every single game since the beginning.

[@ThatPinkOtter]

I don't like how simple SMN has been made, I haven't for a long while now, but at the same time I also don't miss Tokyo Drift. I can't say what SMN players want, I gave up on it, what I can say is that in my opinion it's currently it's the least engaging job in the game, and that's saying something since WHM exists. For the people who enjoy it that's fine, but both WHM and SMN will have me struggling to stay awake playing them. Neither do anything that makes you feel like you have much impact aside from Bahamut which loses it's novelty quickly, to me SMN feels like BLM if BLM's rotation was spamming Fire 1s with intermittent GCDs to make your Fire 1s look different and every 2 minutes casting Fire 4. If anything needs to change it's that in my opinion.

[@PaulFalcon]

My SMN beef is either go technical or go pretty. If it's the simplest job, then give it the aesthetic people want. Make it pretty and vapid.

[@SlyScyther]

SMN being simple doesn't mean it has to be without flavor. It's atrociously bland compared to what it could have been. Three more summons to complete the set of primals and a new summon like Alexander or Odin.

[@Enis1198]

Someone loses no matter what. If you liked old summoner complexity or just because you enjoy DoT management, you dont have anything for that gameplay style in 14 anymore. If they change summoner to be more complex, the people that like summoner for its simplicity get put on the path to losing that.

[@SlyScyther]

@@Enis1198 Again, doesn't have to be complex, make them three simple buttons. Viper seems to almost play itself, but they (apparently) made it fun regardless by making it flashy and flavorful. Give SMN the same treatment.

[@maybayV2]

​@@SlyScytherI mean, all your asking for is 3 new skins.

[@wildheaven1827]

The flavor is the summons. You know, because FF fans that werent even playing summoner said that spell effects ARE job identity. So they stripped the job identity away and gave them oversized summons and oversized spell effects like they were compensating for something theyre ashamed of. They even had to make a command for smaller versions of summons so you can see the floor aoes past bahamuts phat as.

[@RekiWylls]

@@maybayV2 It doesn't even need to be 3 skins to not ruin the simplicity of SMN. Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan all function identically, but feel different because they cast differently (e.g. Titan does a lot of weaves, Ifrit slow casts, Garuda goes fast). New summons could be as simple as Odin makes you a melee for a few seconds (a la RDM), Leviathan is a long channel-cast (like MCH flamethrower), and Ramuh casts stack up potency for a finisher. It could even have the same rotation by making it so *any* three summons procs the next Bahamut/Phoenix, that way casual players can stick to easy ones they like, and high-skill players can optimize fight planning around having more options.

[@asteroidxarmageddon2354]

I'm honestly gonna miss the Paradox Rotation on Black Mage, just for the fact that it allowed for easy uptime in cases where heavy movement was needed....sure you need both of your Triplecast stacks and your Swiftcast to do it, but it was so satisfying to pull of 10 spells while on the run. I just hope that with the changes, there are still ways to keep at least reliable uptime during movement mechanics, though with Triplecast, Paradox and maybe High Thunder being instant cast, and with Swiftcast being a 40s cooldown instead of 60s makes it seem like it's still possible.

[@KaedysKor]

Honestly, it kinda feels like they're marketing Picto for the BLM players that liked the Paradox rotation. It lacks the tight timer dependency, but it has slow-cast-nuke periods, is largely based around casting as filler (unlike, say, SMN), but then can just pull out 12 GCDs in a row instacast (5 white paint, hammer combo, swiftcast weapon canvas, another hammer combo), and probably more than that with some pre-planning.

[@asteroidxarmageddon2354]

Yeah, I kinda got the same vibes from Picto....it really does feel like a more forgiving Black Mage....heck, it even had its own version of Ley Lines with the Stary Sky Landscape buff it puts on the ground.

[@Zadamanim]

I'm considering switching from black mage to pictomancer. Maybe it's just because picto is new that makes the rotation feels challenging, but new black mage feels so dumbed down. New manafont feels amazing, but losing ice paradox and the lucid dreaming + transpose shenanigas feels like it's lost so much of it's identity as a rule-breaker. Breaking rules is what separates normal magic from black magic, and following a strict rotation is... just antithetical

[@SneakyCupcake]

pretty much this. The new Blm rotation officialy got changed to Fire lll -> Despair -> Transponse -> pictomancer. I always loved the optimizing on blm, Breaking your rotation for the sake of that extra 3% dmg. After switching to Picto now, that one def scratches that itch for now atleast.

[@LightTheBlackMage]

I find the new Black Mage to be so friggin boring man. I just got my hands on Transpose lines back in Endwalker, and contrary to popular opinion, I loved Sharpcast. It made the rotation feel so much more complex. Now our rotation at level 100 feels like a glorified version of the lvl 60 rotation. Unbelievable.

[@patrickarraes4422]

The TLDR: more simplification and less rotation crafting. I can understand you want to have one or 2 jobs and low level being able to be simple for new players. But high level play is being dumb down hard

[@zeelyweely1590]

As someone who learned and loves Freestyle (non-standard) Monk, the issue isn't the guiders on the GCDs, those are actually really nice and make the job a lot less daunting, it's the loss of the double DoTs. Monk has basicslly three (four, but one is very situational) rotations: Normal but you drift a ton, a looping rotation with some small forced losses to loop, and the freestyle rotation you have full control over. Playing freestyle means managing your DoT timers effectively to line them up with Riddle of Fire, and it leads to very interesting situations like how you actually WANT to double refresh Twin Snakes before the last Demolish going into RoF, so that you can do your full PB combo and resume from Oppo (highest damage) without dropping the damage buff. There's also situations where you actually want to Demolish instead of AoE and mix up both single-target and AoE rotarions. The monk changes basically eliminate all of this. It'll play about the same as freestyle, but you no longer have to worry about any of those little complexities because they're just gone. There's one rotation, there's no more timers to take care of, no more interesting tech, no more insane skill expression and high skill ceiling. Is the job dead? Absolutely not. Is it going to be less fun? Probably not that much, honestly. But it's a completely incomprehensible step backwards from a job that was imo already perfect, and it's definitely overcompensating for Monk's image as the hardest melee/job.

[@Titanxzero1]

Honestly, I didn't really care much for the one dot MNK has. Like I felt like it didn't matter much compared to like BRD. But I'd rather wait and see how it plays before I make any solid judgments.

[@shadmanazad7]

100% agreed

[@williampounds5191]

It was just a dot.

[@lexiconprime7211]

A job that punches and kicks having so much of its identity tied to a dot never sat well with me anyway. Good riddance tbh.

[@Kodiie]

Unpopular opinions, high dps classes should be more challenging to play.

[@JimC1984]

Thats the norm in ARR now its turned into fisher price style

[@Paul-bs5wl]

What do you mean by "high dps" do you mean high personal DPS or rDPS? If you mean rDPS then you concede that some jobs should be significantly better than others. Making a job easier to play doesn't compensate for it being objectively worse than others if the difference is actually notable

[@xavierg9066]

It’s probably a good thing, raids are designed for every job to beat and black mage was probably holding raids back in terms of mechanics why 2 mins becomes the norm

[@ioaffs]

no, I think easier jobs should do more damage than harder ones actually

[@zRidZz]

ya ig this makes sense on why its unpopular. Most dont track ppls dps and most dont care about dps so why add complexity to any dps class in order to have it do more damage when dps meters are bannable lol Keeping all job dps balanced based on class utility makes more sense to me which is what they seem to be going for, except with ninja which has good util and amazing dps

[@RathVantas]

Honestly as a black mage main that loved nonstandard, I would have understood more if they killed nonstandard but made the leveling/low level experience on the job a lot better and did a better job teaching the flow of it to new players. But... they didn't, really at all, they just killed a fun playstyle that was totally optional, didn't break the game since the DPS gains were pretty small. Instead of a fairly strict job that could become very flexible if you cared to put in a lot of practice, now it's just strict for everyone. In terms of theory crafters finding cool new opti, don't hold your breath. After probably 2000 hours on blm, I'm switching jobs in DT

[@Raiaka]

The lower level consequences of the umbral ice mp changes hadn't even occurred to me. The best fix for that problem would probably be to massively lower the level of umbral soul.

[@teeteenine2222]

or make blizzard 2 aoe around you like it was before end walker

[@jakegallant2021]

I’m going to disagree with your points on summoner. I have been maining it since 2.0, and it wasn’t until 6.0 that it was the “easy caster”. It feels bad that a job that used to be considered one of the more technical was simplified to this level. Red mage is also on the simple side and used to fit into the “easy job slot”.

[@Siul_987]

Smn hurts me (shb smn main lol), but I would argue that is currently easiest dps or maybe even easiest job of the game, there is barely anything to manage in general, it lost all of it @-@.

[@futurepastnow]

SMN rotation wasn't complex or difficult to play before 6.0 it was just long, long in a bad way, where any interruption felt awful.

[@Siul_987]

@@futurepastnow it was janky, but it was fun to optimize per fight and force you todo weird shit on ultimates for example, something the new SMN literally has nothing to offer (it had dot management, charges management and pet handling (pre-positioning so he could attack faster)). It was janky yes, it was clunky in some areas, but it had some nice depth compared to other jobs.

[@williampounds5191]

As a SMN main since 2.0 every single addition prior to the rework was a nonsensical mess of grab bag mechanics. If you ever died completely ruining your long meandering strange rotation of trance and summon bahamut was weird and dumb. Aetherflow stacks, fester, dots made no cohesive sense with their interactions with trances or fulfilled the class fantasy of a summoner. Egis were also just their own separate little thing that didn't interact with trances OR dots, with some abilities you also just kinda hit for no reason not unlike fester. No cohesive sense in anything it was doing. Yes, it was the easy caster. BLM was far harder to optimize in fights and didn't do it in weird ways. It did in thoughtful ways that required mastery of the encounter despite its rotation being dead easy. SMN's optimizations didn't feel like optimizations. They felt like making the best of a bad situation because it wasn't bad enough having 3-4 minigames wholly unrelated to each other, they also didn't play nice with the encounter design. At least now the mechanics make sense in how they relate to each other in gameplay and aesthetically. We're actually evoking and invoking the power of primals. I also think having a very simple job without a rigid gcd rotation is valuable in the game and if any job had to be that, killing the old incomprehensible and janky smn was a worthy sacrifice.

[@Siul_987]

@@williampounds5191 everything you wrote is all good and all, but "rigid gcd rotation" is the actual current definition of the current smn more than previous iterations... and the reason is there is nothing else you can move on the rotation to adapt (only maybe getting ifrit first and then the other primals once every last fight of each tier).

[@kroganlauncher]

The monk changes do dumb down monk a bit, and it's not really in how you see information. The rotation for monk has now been streamlined making it so drift and looping are no longer a consideration. For example, you don't need to consider how long you have until your Disciplined Fist falls off, because the buff is no longer there, so there is no risk of messing up the order of a perfect balance and having your finisher fall outside of Disciplined Fist. The same goes for the dot, which you don't consider anymore when using riddle of fire, and you also do not consider in multi target scenarios. The current media tour monk has removed fail states from current monk, while also streamlining the rotation, removing the more complex ones that people could learn to optimize monke play. It is similar to how the black mage changes have removed a lot of the thinking involved in executing their rotation, while also removing the non standard play

[@the.duck.is.ronin.]

After playing MNK this expansion, it's clear they're trying to turn it from a combo-centric to a burst-centric job. Blitzes last expansion gave them a more typical burst window, and Replies and the chakra cap this expansion made the burst a bit busier (plus apparently there's some SSS optimization going around that I'm too casual to understand)

[@keltian]

I started playing in ShB and became a SMN main because I fell in love with it. The changes in EW caught me off guard, but I kept playing because I liked the job aesthetic. Also, yes, it was nice to have a casting job that I didn't have to spend much time thinking to play, but I would give that up in a heartbeat to get old SMN back. Realistically, the one change I really hope they give the job is a useful healing spell to replace Physick. They could even put a long cooldown or a high MP cost, so we can't replace a healer, but I would really like to have that utility, which right now only RDM has.

[@TheFrantic5]

You mean in addition to Rekindle?

[@keltian]

@@TheFrantic5 That one is dependant on you being in a very specific phase of your rotation. Same as with the Ifrit gap closer. It's hard to plan for when you'll need it if something unexpected happens.

[@magus13131]

Solar Bahamut does an AoE heal, so in a single rotation, you'll have x2 Solar Bahamut Heals + the two Phoenix heals Ngl, it's weird placement of heals and feels incredibly out of place. Most of the time, you'll be overhealing due to how DPS rotations work.... idk what they were thinking

[@KaedysKor]

@@magus13131 Solar Bahamut doesn't replace normal Bahamut. Instead of Bahamut -> Phoenix -> Bahamut -> Phoenix, it's now Solar Bahamut -> Regular Bahamut -> Solar Bahamut -> Phoenix. The addition just crams the original two demi summons into the slot Phoenix used to occupy at the 1-minute.

[@JackDaloots]

No one is talking about this yet, but I have a feeling we're going down to just one endgame set of gear too, no more crit build, just spell speed. I feel...

[@JohnSmith-h8u]

this shit is exactly why i uninstalled.. choice isnt an allowed in this game.. no freedom of expression..

[@Rhodonite]

I don't want to come across as aggressive, but saying the AST cards have an identity now is misunderstanding what the job currently is and has been. Don't want to do a whole rant but having a card that shields and another that heals is the worst thing they could've done, it's just another charge of ED and CI lol. Cards are now a worse Aetherflow with a card skin.

[@Axel-kk7fr]

So true

[@Dahras1]

Yeah, just wanted to add that randomness had been a significant part of ASTs identity before EW. Having cards not be random at all is not only a complete flavor fail, it also abandons any vestiges of that identity.

[@Murglo6]

As a tank the excitement back in heavenward when my friend drew the bole to save me from myself is still unmatched the randomness is what made AST so run for us to play

[@rcpoisond]

Well, goodbye to playing healer. AST was the one green DPS that didn't have a 1 button rotation and now they butchered even that. What do I need another heal/shield for when I'm pressing 1 for > 95% of a fight.

[@KaedysKor]

RE Summoner, I think the real issue with me is that the new summon just doesn't really fit. Instead of replacing normal Bahamut, it instead crams normal Bahamut and Phoenix into the one-minute windows, and takes over the opener and 2-minute entirely. It also looks, imo, quite goofy, and at least thus far, as functionally zilch for lore basis. It would have been _so easy_ for them to make the gems that you get after Phoenix swap into Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva. They could even make them essentially mechanical clones of the existing Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda, with one having a pair of long casts with a two-GCD combo Favor, one having for short-GCD instants with a long-cast Favor, and one having four normal instant GCDs with weaved Favors. They could give those subtle flavor differences, or they could literally just be SFX reskins with the same mechanical effect, and honestly _it would have felt better_ to me. That would at least lean into the "Summoner" archetype, and the existing gameplay build-up over the levels. This weird sword-winged second Bahamut that they just sorta sledge-hammered into the job feels not even half-assed, but something some intern cooked up on a lunch break when they realized they'd forgotten to write down anything for Summoner at all.

[@teeteenine2222]

Ifrit pared with Shiva lock them in ice as you dash in maby a flavor deep freeze for a sec or so then stomp titan with Ramuh judgement bolt in to shock strike shock strike shock strike shock strike shock strike if you have played the ex you know this is fitting and Garuda with Leviathan with the dread wave that some of the sahagin cast in his fight being the dot zone or aoe buff that dose counter damage for flavor

[@piratesbootay]

I confess I have a bias due to having enjoyed summoner pre rework for several expansions and being a fan of the job in older FF titles. But what was a complex job prior to EW has been reduced to babies first spell caster. What should be represented as technically difficult (rotating through numerous summons and using their abilities) is now mundane and unexciting. And I do kinda agree with the 'it's another bahamut and should've another demi or more summons' argument. The EW rework ideally was the blueprint but I guess it didn't pan out. There are other simple starter jobs, why'd they murder my boi :(

[@GerardSharkey]

The rework killed my desire to play the game. I keep coming back for a look in the hope that there will be something to bring me back but nothing yet.

[@Siul_987]

@@GerardSharkeyI honestly had a job identity crisis for the whole ew expansion, they definitely destroyed the job in a way that there is nothing close to what it was. I am glad for casuals that they got the easiest job of the game out of it though, praying that picto is as fun as it looks because that’s were I am aiming.

[@GerardSharkey]

@@Siul_987 I fear that the picto will lack will lack in any complexity. I want to break my fingers. I want to take more than 2 minutes to learn a rotation.

[@Siul_987]

@@GerardSharkey I agree, I just hope I find something that stays between fun and hard to master, there was something on that old janky smn that I enjoyed a lot (pet management was kind of fun, dots, ruins charges and some other stuff), I have not found that again on the game, I tried to raid with BLM but it never really stuck with me either lol, I have done raids with many mores dancer, bard, sage, ninja, monk and many others :’) . I still miss smn xD

[@benlarkin857]

I understand the business case for standardising jobs and their rotations - to make the game as accessible as possible to the largest number of players (particularly new and returning players) and to reduce potential toxicity as a result of either (a) not including a class in your party because it doesn't have a particular ability or (b) shaming players for not min-maxing their rotations or discovering those hidden synergies. The above said, I don't agree with the approach. It essentially turns us into a bunch of interchangeable robots who push buttons in a specific order. We are differentiated in our ability to deal with complex mechanics in Savage fights and such, but for me multitasking is not a function of intelligence. I enjoy when a game allows questions like "how should I adapt my rotation for this particular fight?" rather than accepting that a rotation is just something to distract you in the background while all the real mechanics are happening in the fight and it will always be exactly the same. You know, back in my day (1.0), I had to actually think about how to use a job (like Summoner). *cough* cough

[@coral4406]

What we smns wanted was levi,ramuh Shiva after bahamut set of 3 lol we weren't asking fir complexity we were wanting the next set we been waiting 10 years 4 lol

[@gerohikaru2712]

Imagine that being how summoner plays where we swap 3 legos for 3 different legos every demi. That honestly would be so fun. Id much rather have 3 new summons than what we got ;_;

[@bigbay1159]

You mean you dont like not having dots, oversimplification, and a literal reskin of yet phoenix and Bahamut? Solar Bahumut literally moves like the other two, flaps wings and does little attack and big attack which are just color swaps....

[@coral4406]

@@bigbay1159 dots never should have been in sm 2 start with the job should only have summoning related moves no dots

[@MidoriGrey]

I'm a monk main who actually heavily welcomes the changes being made, and I couldn't care less about the nonstandard rotations because there's still several nonstandard rotations that can be had. The changes to brotherhood and overcapping chakra will help prevent creating bad habits of gcd clipping, and more than that; because of the overcapping, you won't have to be as aggressive with it either; so this would actually provide more comfortable leeway into heavily increasing the overall gcd speed; the only caveat being that there's no dot to benefit from a high skillspeed stat. I couldn't care less if we kept the twin snakes and demolish timers or not. Those don't matter to me because I already mastered my rotation to keep those up without ever having to >look< at them anymore. More than that however, I'm actually heavily disappointed in the other monk mains I've seen about this dilemma because most of them are angry about the skill floor being lowered. and every time I think about it, I take a look at myself, and then back to them and I say "The skill floor literally doesn't exist for us. Why should we care?" Because the notion is just a huge blanket in denial for being extremely weirdly gate-keepy. And I've been called actual slurs for this. Very disappointed in them for this. I welcome the changes. Only argument I have with the changes is that the trait for the new skills replaces the actual bootshine/truestrike/snappunch instead of using the acquired beast sigils to augment them INTO those skills. But considering we won't find ourselves actually using those without the buffs, it's in reality a non-issue. And I cannot begin to stress how much all these changes, potencies, could be changed in the final build. Those new riddle abilities we're getting will fit in fine and will make monk actually way stronger.

[@zRidZz]

ya i agree, skillfloors in classes dont really exist if players stop playing the class because complexity, at that point the only floor that remains is just the players who still play it, Kinda like with arcane mage in wow, noone is playing it except the super super small minority of players who have mastered the class, i think SE making small changes to make the class feel welcoming and removing slight complexity is a great idea, this way the skill floor will actually exist(hope that makes sense lol)

[@KaedysKor]

Skill _expression_ is important. It's necessary for the health of the game, imo, to have skilled players able to really show that skill, to be able to squeeze more out of the job due to that expertise. But, imo, nothing in the changes to Monk change that. In fact, I'd argue that the follow-ups on Riddles, the changes to SSS, the conditional-power AoE heal, and the changes to how PB will be used all enable _at least_ as much skill expression as in EW, if not more. Skill _floor_ is 100% gatekeeping and there's simply no two ways about it. I just flat out do _not_ understand the mentality that a playing a job is less fun because _other people,_ people that are not as good at the game or the job, are able to do a passable job at playing it rather than being Ice-mage BLM level. It seems to me that the only reason the skill floor should even _matter_ to a player is if they think they're at or near it. Gatekeeping is just flat garbage tier, full stop.

[@-cat-..]

The point of dissatisfaction with experienced monks is that the removal of timers doesn't lower the skill floor, it lowers the skill ceiling instead. Optimal drift, or even the timely refreshing of DoTs, was not necessary to play the job. Its been deleted entirely from the game. That expression is gone. If the combat designers just wanted to make monk's skill floor lower, they would only make changes like 'optimal weapon skill glows when in X form' so you do not early refresh something (This is one of the changes coming in DT), as that makes the job easier for people who look at their hotbars. I have yet to see any dissatisfaction with the lowering of the jobs skill floor, as the people most passionate and vocal about monk are at a level of experience where changes to the skill floor do not affect their gameplay. I have however seen people glad that the skill ceiling has been lowered (optimal drift), because they did not like the _optional_ difficulty of the job, which I find a bit ridiculous. If you have no interest in learning something, why do you want it removed?

[@0xx0CoffeeFoam0xx0x]

i can't do my free style anymore. get a ball spend a ball. wow zero effort.

[@VerraXIV]

11:58 YES. I COMPLETELY AGREE. Thanks for this video, have been so tunnel visioned forgot to look at everything else coming for DT. One thing I was thinking about looking at all the new toys Healers and Tanks got was that I think Yoshi-P has had enough of us and is going to kill us. I hope the new fights make good use of all the new mit/healing abilities.

[@TheUndyingCrystal]

Yoshi got sick of everyone calling the game easy so now he's gonna make us pay lmao

[@bigbay1159]

@@TheUndyingCrystal lol as if

[@Qkochan3]

while i do agree that there should be a casual friendly job, lets not glaze the company and say its a great idea to turn SMN into that job. it was a terrible decision. people who mained smn years before they neutered it have every single right to be pissed off for the rest of their time playing this game, when square could have EASILY turned any NEW job into what your posturing for. its not like the other jobs are genuinely that difficult anyways, it did not take the brain power to play smn before neutering to play drg or whm or half the tanks. none of these are really THAT difficult in comparison to so many other games where they just HAVE to gut anything interesting in FFXIV to get people to play anything. another huge note is the casuals will play literally any job it doesn't matter about usage rates. theyre still likely playing the game sub optimally regardless of whether or not the job is brain dead or astrophysics level, i mean so many casuals fuck up blm rotation on a daily basis but still play the job because they find it fun LOL. it was still a shit decision to turn a more complex job into a simple job instead of just making a new simple job, i dont understand why thats so difficult to grasp. if a job is too difficult for you, go play a different one. dont take years of someone else's dedication to learning it and shove it down the drain because its about what you want. also ast having varying levels of more healing in the cards isn't really a "strong identity", the cards just heal now yippie. on top of the already strong heals it has, that just makes it redundant.

[@Geniuswrath]

I'm sad that devs seem to want to stamp out non standard rotations. That will go a long way to stagnate the game making every job a cookie cutter.

[@iPlayOnSpica]

On the topic of dancer, Standard Finish does combo into Last Dance, making doing Standard Step on cooldown still a dps gain over doing filler gcds. But, of course, potencies subject to change for launch.

[@milkiipetals]

I'm honestly fine with summoner's simplicity, but still, no new summons minus Blue Eyes White Bahamut, is very disappointing. We wanted more gem phases, not another Demi-phase.

[@YoukoZuki]

I kinda wish something more, like being able to cast barrier without the stupid carbuncle (honestly, at this point, I don't mind see the cute little thing get nuked cuz it literally do nothing but cast barrier now. I believe it won't harm summoner's identity because summon in FF series doesn't appear permanently in combat: either in-and-out or only last for some time. But I guess people would miss the blue little thing so it won't happen. I also feel like aside of the new Bahamut, there should be some sort of QoL changes. Like Summoner can choose their Ifrit-phase gap-closer being a gap-closer (animation-lock) or just a normal book-slam (no-animation lock). A finisher that requires you to summon all there of Titan/Ifrit/Garuda to proc, which can be avoid drifting during non-targetable phase by making these summons deal damage around the caster so that summoner can spend summon gems to prep the finisher in down time.

[@GerardSharkey]

I'm not fine. The only job I really loved was deleted with the rework. If they wanted a simple job they should have made a new one.

[@ninjapandas22]

Or maybe even something new to do during the gem phases, literally any change up to all the filler in the middle :(, and the fact solar is the starting and in between each phase we are all gonna get so tired of it

[@bigbay1159]

The laziness of solar Bahamut is just astounding....he has no new animations or doesnt do anything, its a literal reskin of bahamut with out putting any actual work. Flaps wings like Pheonix and Bahamut and then little attack big attack of which they all look the same...minus the colors of the attack are different oooooh so unique... Making Summoner so a child can play is a preference some might like....but there is no excusing the lack of effort in just adding bahamut twice with literally doing nothing new....

[@VideoHostSite]

I love the game, but it seems to me that FFXIV players somehow have managed to blind themselves to the fact that there is no customization and no variation in ANY ASPECT of FFXIV gameplay. There's no variation in gear, in materia, in the buttons you hit and the order you hit them in, and there's no variation in where you can stand or when and where you need to move. "Getting good" at FFXIV entails figuring the EXACT details that your Job must follow, every time.

[@pencilgoblin655]

the excuse that players use is that "you're just going to learn the optimal build and rotation anyway" I agree with you tho

[@bladeofky]

Thank you for making this video for those of us whose eyes glaze over when reading tool tips

[@garciamg1646]

The issue why monks main are mad is because optimal drift is dead and now the job have an easy to understand rotation

[@angelsoflolz]

Eeh it's more the weirdness that new riddle abilities give (potential pre-pull stuff, pushing things out of buff), and the fact that with media tour potencies I thiiiiink new-bootshine is a minor dps loss over dragon kick? It's in the pinned doc in balance.

[@Snowinmyears]

@@angelsoflolz it's the other way around, Leaping opo is always better than DK with MT potencies. But yeah, pls fix 😂

[@Irimu_]

Black Mage being made slightly easier is nice for me as it was slightly harder than I'm comfortable with during Endwalker.

[@rubensgbarros]

Saddly i must inform its not easier, streamlined, yes, but not easier, any mistake u make now is more punishing as u'll lose more damage from it while being worse at recovering it self from mistakes, id still recommend because its a great job and only daunting at first, but dont expect it to be easier than in EW, in ultimates, for example, its harder because of no more non-standard)

[@Irimu_]

@@rubensgbarros I mostly meant in normal content. It has less you have to keep track of now and that makes it easier for me. And I trust that they will fix how punishing messing up is since it seems like an oversight.

[@rubensgbarros]

@@Irimu_I wish, but doubtfull as what made the job not so punishing and made it have good recovery was the underlying non standard possibility which they seem to just not want to exist I'll be that person too and ask how do u see it having less to keep track of? It's mostly thundercloud and if at full spell speed mana ticks, but not at average or lower speeds, so I don't really see it as easier to track, but I can just be used to the job so I'm missing something others saw as a difficulty

[@Irimu_]

@@rubensgbarros Sharpcast and keeping up my dot was the part of BLM that I never managed to do properly so now that it's gone it's easier for me.

[@SeikiKisaki]

As a DRK enjoyer, I've just been expecting every expansion to remove parts of the job identity. Losing Dark Arts and plunge hurts, but it's been hurting the same way since Stormblood. I've grown numb to the pain of losing my loved actions. Idk how long 14 will continue receiving new expansion, but mark my words, one of these days The Blackest Night will be removed and Warrior will receive an even more powerful version of it. And when that happens, it will hurt, but it will hurt the same way yet again.

[@Evillittleman]

Bro does not play BLM enough lmao. Hating sharpcast is wild.

[@nafslee]

SCH's level capstone ability means it can basically solo heal and that is a massive gain imo

[@shadowscythe21]

I was not happy with the MP regeneration change

[@TDOTCRFH4]

genuinely a huge wave of relief every time media tour comes around and I hear "warrior is still basically the same". don't ever touch my baby, se

[@SirKaibel]

The weaving of random cards in AST is what made it fun. Healers already have so little to do in dungeons that drawing cards always felt exciting. Now we have 3 buttons to press every minute… yay I’d rather they added those cool new cards to the random drawing mechanic. Not this dumbed down version

[@BranBal]

Until EW cards did 2 things In DT cards will do 3 things

[@maybayV2]

I mean, no role really has much to do in a dungeon.

[@gerohikaru2712]

TBH the thing is that I agree with them doing away with whatever the hell double cardweaving was in EW because it is genuinely just not great. I get that it is hectic but at least I can use my brain in DT rather than spam the same sequence of cards every 2 minutes. IMHO the card system just doesn't really work in essence to the lore of AST cards too. What honestly shouldve changed is more about how they navigate oGCDs because atm. We have too many that do the same thing without any compensation considering we traded 3 cards per 2 minutes for 5 seconds more on Divination.

[@papercat5829]

​@@BranBalvery disingenous. The balance and spire have the effects of endwalker cards so with your very own logic its 6 effects.

[@Zakjuh]

homie you won't find anyone but a small minority of contrarians who will tell you that EW Astro was good.

[@devxved]

Its cause they really went ah lets simplify boack mage by no more paradox in ice form, and thiught that they could just give us moving leylines and wed just behappy with that.

[@kiraleshoth]

About smn: Rdm was already there as the "easy caster", that's part of what pissed people off. There was no need for a job change like this, making a new job the "easy" job would have been less painful

[@Kisuzume]

Very glad that DNC got a very meaningful change out of nowhere that completely changes the rotation from EW.

[@AwkwardThursdays]

You can still very easily fit 4 Fire IV at the back half of paradox by using your Fire III proc anywhere in there. You barely lose any damage compared to the main use of transposing out of ice to use the Fire III proc. The changes make fire phase WAY more forgiving and ice phase loses a bit of its forgiveness. Would be nice if we kept ice paradox in some way, even if it just refreshed ice timer as an instacast with no MP regen. Other than that we are in fire phase longer with easier Enochian management and more movement, sounds good and can't wait to try it out.

[@Lunaphyre]

Thank you for pointing it out the 4 fire 4's in the top half. You can a free, instant, fire 3 to use at the end of the fire 4's, or anywhere in-between.

[@Toad-yv8ko]

Using F3 (the proc) to refresh fire-timer is about about the same damage loss as standing still for 0.7 seconds and not casting anything. Not going to ruin you if it happens once or twice but I would avoid it as much as possible

[@Lunaphyre]

For me personally, I use the F3 proc for reset. I don't use it for damage. It's utility in my mind.

[@AwkwardThursdays]

​@@Toad-yv8ko That sounds about right for current blm, but also it does look like we are losing the damage reduction from swapping from ice 3, which alongside all the other changes could make it a damage gain. We'll have to see how it all turns out in the final build.

[@Toad-yv8ko]

@@AwkwardThursdays even if they took out the DMG reduction it would still be a damage loss since af3 F3 is less DMG than your average spell. Not by a lot so it would absolutely turn into utility but you'd still try to avoid it as much as possible so that your timeline doesn't change. Having everything delayed by 1GCD is pretty annoying if not intended. But yeah, it would be very close to damage neutral in that case

[@LordEverlost]

Astro getting some of the original card functions back was nice, I still would like the 3.0 system back, the random nature of the draws and the royal road skills were awesome.

[@HuNtOziO]

I play monk and black mage and im very excited for the changes, especially monk. Finally 3 of our 'core 6' skills got new fucking animations! It only took 11 years of the same shit old animations.... And current black mage is a bit of a cluster fuck and sharpcast sucks so curious to try out the new changes. Probably been changed since media tour build though, hopefully for the better.

[@MidoriGrey]

Those animations were so outdated that people became thirsty for mods just to spice it up lmfao.

[@Coaltergeist]

It's not just about standard vs. nonstandard rotation. It's about FREEDOM. Black mage had the freedom to mold their rotation around the fight, or around a death, etc. That freedom, like every other player optimization since Shadowbringers, is deemed unworthy to exist. They've lost their way with job design; let's hope they can turn it around with the 7.2/8.0 job update

[@jayr5mitty351]

I would 100% trade the places between Sam and Whm on your list.

[@Reaper8290]

Hard disagree on Summoner. I do agree the game should have a simple and accessible job for the very casual. But it shouldn't be a job that was there since launch and some of us mained for years. Then suddenly the main we enjoyed got gutted and lost all identity.

[@MurakamiTenshi]

Your brother and sisters on the Scholar side agree 👍 we've been destroyed and replaced by an even better shield healer

[@90Rush]

So is transposing rotation impossible in new exp (or losing so much damage it's never worth it), or that it still offers competitive or slightly less damage? I think one thing in favor of keeping the transposing rotation is that during this time BLM have decent mobility due to how many insta-casts are there in that phase. Removing it might make the job harder, not easier.

[@rosefan1021]

transpose is still dps increase, if you have firestarter proc in your ice phase

[@leonkillsashley9475]

At this point in time transpose lines for BLM are not viable in DT. The one minor optimization carried over from EW is to transpose > f3p after ice phase instead of hard casting f3 to switch to fire phase. This allows you to cast f3 under astral fire III for some extra potency.

[@Jordonzo]

Kinda since you now have to cast ice spells to regain mana, so it's not really worth it to use instas(besides thunder) in an ice phase anymore.

[@cr082080]

I love how with Summoner it was that this job just isn't for you anymore but Black Mage is an issue.

[@Lusuo]

I started playing 14 in ShB because of SAM, loved it then but was put off by it in EW (before Kaiten was removed) and never really had a reason to play it. But these DT changes have me scratching my head? They get rid of unique gauge spenders going into EW with only 10/20/25spenders (later reduced to 10/25), just for them to REINTRODUCE a 50 kenki spender but make the original 50 kenki spenders (that were made 25 kenki in EW) 60 seconds? It just feels super redundant to me, like where is the job actually going?

[@Okay_mate]

I'll never understand why they took what most considered the hardest caster and made it the go to for simple gameplay. I jumped ship on SMN with the most recent rework and for the love of the twelve if they dumb down BLM too much I'll... do nothing, but maybe cry on the inside a little. I'm happy there is a simpler job for those who want it, just wish they didnt destroy my favourite job in the process.

[@IWANTAWORLD]

I have been a black mage main since I started the game (thaumaturge from character creation). the paradox rotation was the best mage rotation I have experienced in any MMO. It just felt good to perform. that being said, it was not paradox that made me love this job. I trust SE and will keep being BLM all the way to lvl 100 :)

[@sergiomonteiro8653]

one thing i miss in summoner, is being able to STAY with my elementals summoned all the time. and not for 1 hit and desepear. so disapointing for me. I like to summon and CONTROL these elemental monsters.

[@Impulsedrive]

I always wanted it to play like FFXI SMN but it seems FFXIV just isn't built for pets. Same reason why BST is limited I wager.

[@NaughtyJuri]

Blackmage is another Top DPS it isn’t weak the problem with this game is the developers are jerks for wanting you to dodge so many AOE when this game is slow AF and the ran action doesn’t last long enough this game seem to favor melee over range each expansion the AOE just keep getting crazy just belonging the fight i am starting to pick up on thier “Game design” since playing from 2013

[@craigius26]

Saying summoner has been made purposly simple for casual players feels a little dismissive. Im sure even casual players want some sort of challenge 😂

[@devonshaw8935]

Yeah I agree. The complaints I've seen aren't necessarily about job complexity either. I see people complaining about job simplification on every job. The complaint I have and that I've consistently seen is... we're still at a count of 5 summons (7 if you count carby and an awkward repeat casting of bahamut) 5 expansions and 100 levels into the game...

[@DeusGamez]

nah the casuals just want to collect more summons they honestly don't care about difficulty or balance they just want to look cool and have awesome pets that fight by their side

[@celeswylder748]

Unless you're a casual player, how do you really know?

[@KanetsidohiKanotoush]

I'm going to reserve judgement about Black Mage until I try them myself but even so, I'm currently suffering a serious case of pre-order regret Being a casual which does roulette everyday, having to change rotation for low level dungeons is hard enough already, with the changes to mana regeneration I may need to stop queueing for anything under level 90 (I should finish my ARR relic weapon ASAP) All of this of course, assuming that the rotation for Dawntrail is easy, and fun enough to overcome the changes I may need to do in my current rotation People trying Black Mage for the first time because of these changes is good but would they stick around or is Black Mage going to be less played after the initial hype subdues? I personally like to run one roulette a day as Scholar or White Mage but my favorite job is Black Mage, and if it's future incarnation is not fun for me, playing healer for a couple of hours doesn't justify a monthly sub

[@celeswylder748]

"I'm going to reserve judgement about Black Mage until I try them myself" If only 99% of people did this. XD

[@xL0stKIlah]

Monk literally got even more dumb lol. Why would our ability to buff and debuff be removed. That's of my favorite parts

[@ItsGattsu]

As a fan of new SMN, I disagree with the SMN portion of this video. I think new SMN fans just wanted to see *a* gameplay change this expansion instead of just visual changes to existing moves. We're summoners, we wanted new skins on the *summons* (complete with new quirks for Astral Flow and Gemshine), not a new skin on Dreadwyrm Trance. A new Bahamut is the least interesting change they could have made and, personally, I don't like the Allagan design so an Allagan Bahamut is 🤷🏽‍♂

[@WildArmACF]

thanks for doing this. red mage, dergoon and gb here..good to know how different they are

[@KaedysKor]

RE: Red Mage, the reduction in cooldown on Swiftcast, afaik, essentially completely negates the issue with GCD shifting. RDMs need one GCD shift per melee combo, since the melee combo itself causes a GCD shift by being ~5 GCDs long. RDMs do a melee combo roughly every 35-40s, since we generate an average of 5.25 mana per GCD during dual-cast, and a melee combo costs a net of 73 mana (the spells in the combo regenerate 27 of the 100 mana it consumed). However, every 2 minutes, we get a bonus free melee combo that provides a free GCD shift on its own, so realistically we only really need 2 GCDs shifts per two minutes. Since we have ~30-40s flexibility on when to actually use the melee combo, due to pooling, Swiftcast at 40s is _more than_ sufficient to provide the odd instacast we need to fix GCD alignment between combos. That said, I do kinda wish they'd just give Fleche and Contra charges already. While managing GCD alignment to maximum CD uptime on them is certainly a form of skill expression, it feels more to me like playing around jank in the system, rather than actual proper job complexity. That's especially the case if they're going to have us depending on a role action for that alignment, a role action that is also often burned on things like rezes.

[@divinepteris]

There seems to be some sort of miscommunication where people think only the old SMN mains dislike these changes. The thing you have to understand is that even us who like simple EW SMN are disappointed in what we got for DT. No one wanted another Bahamut, we wanted Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva. Or heck, even Demi-Hydaelyn, even that would have sufficed. At least that would make more sense than this random non-existent Allagan Bahamut knowing how to use Exodus. We also gained a visual upgrade for Fester but not one for Pain Flare??? So in AoE I don't even get to look at a new animation for my Aetherflow? Not to mention, the loss of the extra 10 seconds on searing light making it so the first primal we choose after Bahamut doesn't matter anymore because it's no longer in the buff window, or the fact that saving searing light when 2 SMNs are in the party is now the equivalent of asking "Hey other SMN, can you drift your 600 pot follow up attack for a minute? Thanks." Please do not be under the impression that all of us who enjoy new SMN are singing Sol Bahamut's praises, because most of us aren't. Otherwise, good video.

[@gerohikaru2712]

TBH we had a solid foundation that just ended up not having a good followup is the pain of every summoner that liked EW summoner atm. It'd be nice if we got to instead get more summons (which is unlikely due to the fact that the entire rot is pretty much set at 3 legos). So the only real thing they can target is the Demi. Which IMHO should be a bit more given room to be a bit complex. It's nice that Summoner is very simple but the issue now was what to do with it now that we have a set concept? Actually one idea is to just make another set of legos to rotate. Maybe to cover Ice, Thunder and Water this time.

[@Zakjuh]

The worst part is this new Bahamut is basically Summon Hydaelyn without the commitment. It summons Hydaelyn sigils and even has the spell "Exodus." (Hydaelyn's Sundering attack) So they basically gave summon Hydaelyn, but didn't, and instead made it some weird malnourished Yugioh Bahamut.

[@korpsmaninfantry7238]

Samurai and Gunbreakers got shafted this expansion, Samurai lost numbers and had both Shoha compressed into one skill. Gunbreaker’s rotation feels a little clunky and slow now, keep in mind that these are my mains and my initial thoughts on the changes. They will change as the expansion progresses and they probably aren’t as bad as they currently appear.

[@Dahras1]

Okay, so I'm a midcore MNK main who's mostly mixed on the changes but I do understand why they aren't well received by some Monks. Basically, the new Ball system is not equivalent to the old Buff/DoT system. With the Buff/DoT system, you had to keep up those timers even when in Perfect Balance spamming DK/Bootshine because if either dropped you would lose DPS. That meant that, especially in progging fights, there was a lot of improvisation in order to keep all the buttons you needed in the Riddle of Fire window without any buffs dropping. With the Ball system, buffs granted by Ball gainers (DK, Twin Fang, Demolish) are local to those combo steps. If you are doing a Lunar PB window alternating Oppo-Oppo skills, you don't have to worry about anything else as the Balls you have already gained don't have a time limit. This not only limits the funky MNK optimal brainrot rotations, like optimal drift, it also makes your burst windows a lot more linear. Personally, I wish they'd have just turned those buff timers into the new job guage and left it at that. I understand why they did things the way they did, and I do like the Reply skills quite a bit, but the main combo changes kind of misunderstand the fun of the job imo.

[@katelundberg2029]

As someone who only dips their toes into black mage when I'm grinding levels on it or grinding lower level drops, I enjoy the changes to it. The change to ice phase means that you can always get the burst of mana without needing to either wait a step to ensure you get it before swapping to fire phase or risking missing it if you go straight into fire 3. It does technically remove options like gambling on the fire 3 or using thunder to stall for recharge while keeping that uptime but it makes the main route feel better. I also like the changes to thunder, I think leaving the original cast as an option when you don't have thundercloud would have been fine but I didn't like the randomness to Thundercload sometimes popping like 17 times during your fire rotation or popping once in a 2 minute span, and making it consistent is great. It could maybe use a few more ways to proc it or changed ways to alter it than just swapping phases but it's a nice consistency buff and makes it better scathe whenever you have it.

[@StriderHoang]

I think the Gunbreaker changes in practice are more slight changes than significant. Everything you'd normally press under No Mercy still demands to be pressed. When you do it right, every GCD, Double Down, the whole Gnashing Fang combo, Sonicbreak, and Lionheart will barely fit in 30 seconds, Lionheart in practice is just replacing any Burst Strikes you'd fill No Mercy with. In envisioning for the future, Lionheart's placement in your burst can be slid up or down No Mercy when you know you need to weave mits, for example if a raid opens with Tankbuster within the first 10 seconds of your burst or the last 10 seconds of it, but in the end, Gunbreaker certainly didn't lose many ogcds besides Rough Divide. Also, looking forward to the addendum about how Black Mage gets Umbral Soul at level 35.

[@ドライデ-ファッサ]

These are the skill that will be deleted or change in Dawntail 7.0 Dark Knight [Blood Weapon(delete), Delirium(delete), Plunge(delete)] Gunbreaker [Rough Divide(delete)] Dragoon [Dragon Sight(delete), Spineshatter Dive(delete)] Ninja [Huton(effects will change), Huraijin(delete)] Samurai [Kaeshi: Higanbana(delete), Shoha(effects will change), Shoha 2(delete)] Bard [Wanderer's Minuet(effects will change), Mage's Ballad(delete), Army's Paeon(effects will change) Black Mage [Sharpcast(delete)] Astrologian [Minor Arcana and Draw(effects will change), Redraw(delete), Astrodyne(delete)]

[@Xilibrius]

I'm not a machinist main hut I heard with the changes to machinist you wouldn't have to worry about hyper charge during wildfire but there still might be room for it i there.

[@HeroSabre]

Yet. The new GNB combo has no continuation yet.

[@Techn0magier]

Yeah, I'm one of those who disagree with your opinion about AST. My reasoning ist removing the randomness out of a system that represents cards, means removing the core idea of cards in general. Cards are on of the earliest means to humans to generate random outcomes, some to "predict" fate, some to gamble etc. The AST is meant to deal with the concept of fate and that you can't have it all. So breaking the basic concept of "fate" by giving smth absolutly optimizable is what makes the AST currently a broken class. I'm only talking about the concept of its aesthetics and lore here. AST was already one of the weakest classes in EW, when it comes to its design. And now it just is no longer an AST but in name. Maybe they should rename it to smth else, like illusionist.

[@riel0563]

I was hoping for SMN to at least get some salt and pepper so that I could pick it back up. But it's still baked unseasoned chicken breast. I was a SMN main since ARR 2.0 early access. You could say I was really tied to the job and dealt with many of the problems throughout the years. Always loved it, regardless of the issues, and I basically had to quit it in 6.0. The only time I stopped playing SMN was during 4.0 when all Ruins behaved like Fester at the time and once that got fixed, I returned immediately. To this day I'm still bummed about EW SMN, the job I used throughout MSQ, raids, did relics on suddenly became a job that I'll never look at again. All the glamour gear I had became worthless too given that I never liked BLM or RDM.

[@xiozen]

Pre-endwalker smn was just bad in my opinion. As a final fantasy enthusiast I've always enjoyed the fantasy of being able to summon large aeons to my side to fight for me in some capacity; it was shocking to just be able to summon a tiny little egi- instead. The EW changes were a welcome addition to being able to summon the big boys. I just wished that this update (expac) allowed for the introduction of more of the traditional summons instead of a template swap of a current summon but beggars can't be choosers. I look forward the DT update and continuing to play as a summoner.

[@MrBoston1630]

@@xiozenold summoner mains didnt care about that. We’re not opposed to awesome summons, we just hate that the devs decided to take something we loved and erased it with nothing of worth to replace it with. Why did one of the most complex jobs have to be the easiest in a single patch? I would have had no problems with picto being easy as it would have been completely new with noone being attached to it.

[@adelxiii6327]

Btw for RDM grand impact you can make it only replace impact while still can cast and use jolt 3 .. that from new setting they did add so i guess RDM still fine if not better.

[@TheOptimistDelusion]

Huge if true. The tooltip says it automatically replaces both, which I do not like

[@adelxiii6327]

@@TheOptimistDelusion we will see but i am sure its true 90%

[@ichi-obi]

Monk mains are mad just to upkeep the tradition of them being mad every expac launch. I personally love the changes.

[@xL0stKIlah]

They clearly ruin the class more and more overtime.

[@MidoriGrey]

Shit changes man. The best attribute of a monk main is putting up with the adversity it receives from every angle. This isn't an issue.

[@xL0stKIlah]

@@MidoriGrey yea def going to enjoy that aspect but taking away our tools doesn't help smh

[@Zephhi]

Dudes finally aren't stuck with those ARR combo animations and they're still going to complain

[@xL0stKIlah]

@@Zephhi losing the buff/debuff is tragic

[@Scerttle]

22:28 Whenever I play black mage, I only do the standard rotation. But these changes make the job feel more rigid and makes it feel like I'll be punished harder for making a mistake. So I disagree they're "pretty nice".

[@amfrog8277]

tldr, you're in favor of ease of use > skill expression. You want to know the best way to learn monk? Actually playing the job. Monk is (was?) the best example of job progression as each thing you learned felt like an addition to your previously obtained knowledge rather than a thing that requires you to change your playstyle (looking at you, Samurai every capstone). Now my time is not rewarded, nor respected. It is now no different than any other melee dps except Ninja. Black Mage has me concerned but makes me wonder if triple or quad flares will be optimal again.

[@lifeiaskedfor]

the class doesn't play any differently then it does in EW. They just lowered the skill floor and kept the skill ceiling, you just don't have to juggle buffs anymore, the horror. There's nothing wrong with make a job easier to get into, you still have to do the same thing you were doing since shb, there's nothing different or new about the rotation it's just more clear on how you're suppose to do your rotation

[@amfrog8277]

@@lifeiaskedfor That's bs. If they lowered the skill floor than the class plays differently. I don't want to play a simple class in a lake of simple classes in an ocean of simple gameplay. I liked monk because I felt like getting into the job was easy and mastering it took effort because that's how it is. Maybe it'll still be a class worth playing as the skill expression may still be there at high level. Face value, the class doesn't reward effort anymore, so at least it's on the same level as the rest of this game.

[@skeletonghost610]

​@amfrog8277 Lowering the skill floor only affects you if you're at the skill floor. If the job feels the same at the upper end, then making the low end easier is irrelevant except for players picking up the job. Ease of entry is always a good thing; it doesn't mean that it has to be any less complex/ rewarding to master.

[@sharp5hooter499]

You sound like someone who is to good for the game. Sounds like it's time for you to find another game. ​@amfrog8277

[@amfrog8277]

@@sharp5hooter499 Too good for the game? It's not a bad thing to want things to be better. Regardless, I already dropped the game. It took a few hours of playing Endwalker that I knew I was done. I came back every now and then and the game still did nothing for me. It's not a "too good for the game" scenario. It's that the game progressed in a direction that I feel is too simplified and unrewarding to the point where I get no satisfaction from accomplishing anything.

[@besaidknight]

First they found out they can't move... Then they found out their concept of Astral And Umbral is backwards... Then Red Mage can blind people with LB3, and BLM can't... And Creation-Magic-Light is Usefull AND provides Sweet DPS

[@Tyrfx6]

These devs are turning into your controlling toxic ex… thought about returning this expansion but imma rain check.

[@celeswylder748]

?

[@ArmageddonEvil]

I'm grateful that they changed Umbral Soul from 76 to 35. And Manafont is lv30.

[@plfernandes88]

We keep streamlining all the classes and turning them into a faceroll I wonder what older summoners, monks or BLMs, who have long left the game, would say if they could see the classes now 😂

[@-mylittleburger-]

The thing about summoners new abilties for me that was underwhelming was with getting another Bahamut to summon in. Would have rather had something else as a larger summon, or having a new set of lesser primals to summon in aside for the base three.

[@mismismism]

This is why so many of us were telling MNK mains to wait until we had the full kits. BLM mains like myself, were hype based on the first part without knowing the full picture when we were actually the ones with the most to be mad about and MNK isn't really harmed much at all IMO. The changes are polarizing for sure. I'm genuinely just hoping Picto can offer a less restrictive alternative since I don't see myself playing BLM through the expansion anymore. I get that they said they are changing battle systems first before addressing the job problems so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt to actually play the new battle mechanics to see if I buy into the idea of them fixing the oversimplification and homogenization issues with jobs in the next expansion.

[@MidoriGrey]

the changes aren't even polarizing, people are just overreacting like a mental spiral. The high end monk mains genuinely should have nothing to worry about unless they're mad worse people are getting put to a slightly closer pedestal to them. Which I can't understate just how simultaneously pessimistic and egotistically narcissistic that actually is. The whole fun of job changes is reinventing the rotation. Watch. It's become like clockwork at this point. The expansion will come out, they'll go "oh this wasn't so bad" then two or three months later they'll go "It's worse than I thought" and return to their dooming.

[@mismismism]

@@MidoriGrey I meant all the jobs together. It's been very polarizing, not just MNK. Between BLM I'm in the camp of not liking it overall while some seem to like the changes, SCH some love it, some hate it, AST is one where I like the rework with the cards having different effects but the reaction has been very split, most love it or hate it. It's like half of the jobs are getting extreme reactions both positive and negative while the others barely get a reaction since they seem just fine, like nothing overly hype or disliked. I'm still excited but I do agree with you. I'm holding off final judgment for when I get my hands on the jobs with the finalized kits. MNK was the poster child for jumping the gun this time around like SCH mains in EW that got pissed at the job actions but then SCH was fine and Expedient was a godly ability.

[@comatosesunshine]

Tell me you're a tourist without telling me you're a tourist.

[@justinjones1475]

You definitely missed the history of SMN. Interesting take but the class in FFXIV was known as an easy to learn hard to master pet & dot mage class before the Endwalker change. Endwalker made it easy for entry and many Summoner mains who have been with the class back in the beginning was hoping to have some development or at the very least something that takes what we've been doing with the rework further. For new players (not new summoners) they will never know the stress and trains of thought us older SMNs went through on materia/stat management as some slight changes can mess with our damage and buff windows. The 'easy' mage class before Endwalker was RDM. Please consult with people who main a job before making these takes dude

[@EterniR]

I played SMN at launch, and while I was gone for 7 years and it's nice that my main is "simple".... I miss them big dps numbers xD

[@Linguinex]

Regarding Monk, what I'm worried about is that the burst windows is now much less interesting. Before, you had to worry about how your timers were aligned before entering burst. Because you wanted to do Lunar/Phantom Rush right after refreshing the buff/dot, and Solar when they both needed to be refreshed, your decision of whether to go for Solar or Lunar first when you had to do both was a significant one, and you'd sometimes have to refresh Twin Snakes early or enter Perfect Balance at unusual times to make things work just right. I think now that's not really going to be the case any more, because you just use the builder if you need balls, and the spender if you have balls. I love all the other job changes, the Monk job gauge actually showing helpful information, Six Sided Star consuming excess chakra, increased chakra cap during Brotherhood, all great stuff. Trying to stay positive, since I won't know for sure how I feel about it until I actually try it, but those are my concerns.

[@CyframerEX]

After what happened to Summoner from Shadowbringers to Endwalker, the simplification of other jobs is just a matter of when. They killed Summoner for me, as I loved the management of the summons and maintaining your dots and spreads depending on the fight. They seem to want to apply the same flattening of the ceiling to all classes and it's definitely going to make me think twice about subbing for too long to even want to raid.

[@GoatOfWar]

They're simplifying everything in Dawntrail. Just not as fast i guess. It's depressing, feels like my time is wasted on learning to optimise them.

[@FullMetalEdits]

Long time monk main. Monk is the best it's ever been.

[@MrSwaggington]

I kinda hate that Black Mage got fucked up, because a really big part of skill expression for me was learning about fights and using the many tools and ways I could change rotations based on the situation. Playing the EX trials of endwalker week 1 felt so fun because the whole time I was just beginning to flex my ability to do things I would have never done if not pushed to do so. Now my rotation is pretty shallow, which leaves me feeling hollow.

[@k2k4]

So I'm curious about the black mage changes. No free regen in frost is really going to hamper solo and non party content in my opinion as you can't reliably start fights with full mp if your target dies on fire phase. But on the other hand, it could mean more interesting choices outside of combat. I'm curious what it means for lower level play as well, nothing like getting a lvl 36 dungeon and having to use 4 alternate slots because your stuff is locked

[@redgeoblaze3752]

I'm a Black Mage who only plays standard, and never syncs below 72. These changes are not "actually nice" Like you said, Paradox being instant means that you have to backload your fire phase. Instead of having an even four GCDs before paradox, and four GCDs after, you've got five on one end, and three on the back end. And honestly, I don't like the idea of Paradox being instant cast even barring that complaint. It feels like it's encouraging me to play more risky, rather than the slow and calculated playstyle before. I'm a lot more likely to gamble on if I can get another cast off when the timer says 3 than I ever was in Endwalker when the timer said 5 for example. I've always said this, but the removal of Sharpcast and Thundercloud procs is a terrible decision. Sharpcast required you to find a weaving window such that you use Thunder before your next paradox so it doesn't turn into a firestarter proc. It required you to pay attention to your timer, and keep in mind that you'll need to prepare whenever possible. It was fun, and had a lot of risk reward. Now, I find myself losing the DoT without any way to get it back quickly because I'm still in fire phase. Let's say you hit Thunder right after your fire phase starts. That means you've got the one GCD for thunder, six Fire 4 GCDs, a paradox, despair, flare star, your free firestarter, and Blizzard 3. Add all that up (plus the extra time from the long cast spells) and that's roughly 33 seconds right there. Now Imagine you need to move at all, and use one of your now 3 Xenoglossys. Now take your opener. Since you don't have umbral hearts in the opener, you only get a total of 10 astral hearts. Meaning you can only use Flare star once, and throw the rest in the trash. Feels terrible. Or how about the AOE rotation, that relegates High Fire 2 to nothing more than just a phase swap tool, and you use Flare at full MP because it's the only thing that does decent damage. It's terrible, and it needs to be changed. I don't even care if we just revert back to exactly as it was in endwalker, and don't get anything new. I just want the class to play right again. Also, when I said I don't sync below 72, it's 90 now. Since Paradox is instant, it's going to throw me off like crazy whenever I sync below 90.

[@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw]

they removed thundercloud? you cant be serious. yep im skipping this expac. absolutely dogshiz changes!!! im fuming man. i have all jobs at 90 and i am pissed at these changes!!!!🤢🤮

[@sayedthoz7950]

So sage still has that aoe dot but we haven't gotten to savage yet so we will see

[@XdarkmarioX]

The thing about Summoner changes, it isn't that the job is simple that's disappointing. It's that out of every Final Fantasy game, 14's summoner class has among the LEAST amount of summons you can use. Only like... 5. Where's Ramuh? Where's Shiva? I am a SUMMONER. Let me SUMMON more things. instead we get some dumb Bahamut copy that has no basis in 14's lore and whose only real difference is it lets Summoners use an OGCD heal they don't need.

[@thevoxdeus]

As someone who played and enjoyed SMN until Endwalker I will say this: S-E took away the identity of the summoner job, which was to apply and spread DoTs and to synergize with various pets. That identity is completely dead. They replaced that very unique identity with a job that's VERY simple, kind of "baby's first DPS job," and now the appeal of the job is that you get bigger, flashier summons that look like mini primals instead of floating lumps. So now it's a flashy, dumb job, and they had an opportunity to make it more interesting, or more flashy, and they did neither one. In reality, they *could* have kept the job identity in EW AND made it flashy, and most summoners would have *loved* that. They didn't do that, okay, much sad, but people who want that already stopped playing it so no big deal. They should have made it sexier though! Now, it's still the most-played job and will probably remain the most-played, because *easy* is *good* when you're trying to learn hard / new content, but that doesn't mean it's a well-designed job. It just means that the job is a good crutch.

[@GoatOfWar]

Dark knight is moving back an expansion in terms of it's rotation. Sigh... We just can't have nice things.

[@commander392]

I loved the gambling system of the cards, i miss it, i miss it so much.

[@JonathonBone]

I think the biggest issue with summoner is the thematic choices.

[@IRifter]

The algorithm needs to be pleased, comment necessary

[@djstuntfox]

As someone who enjoys the black mage, i was thrown for a loop when Dawntrail launched. My rotation had to change a bit and i only feel the best when im playing lvl 90 content or higher. Not have mana regen in ice phase has made me need to rethink my flow. In some battles im still trying to figure it out.