My Whitetail Arrow is Heavier Than my Elk Arrow

My Whitetail Arrow is Heavier Than my Elk Arrow - This is a follow up video to some of the viewers wondering why Dan uses a heavier arrow for whitetail archery hunting. #elkshape #abt
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[@joshkraut3901]

I’ve dropped 100 grains from watching MFJJ and I killed a 5 point elk and a muley this year no problem. In fact the Muley was 35 yards away and the arrow went thru the shoulder plate complete pass thru and into a tree 5’ behind it.. the MAIN idea for me that completely changed my mind and confidence is how flat shooting and tight my arrow drop is out to 60 yards. I had 200% more confidence on guessing yardage and KNOWING my arrow will hit in the kill zone without moving my dual trac.

[@davidsbielawski]

I love the arrow weight talks! The FOC is definitely more important! If I had to choose between 450 grains with 10% FOC and 450 grain with 18%+ I’m gonna choose the higher FOC every time.

[@pre_ban_andy]

Love it. Good advice, guys. Im a whitetail guy in MI, but I love watching for the archery content overall. I shoot a 472 grain 29 inch 300 spine right now and can group it within 8 inches at 85 yards. I don't shoot past 30ish in the woods tho. Keep it up guys. I like mfjj a lot more after I listened to the podcast about his story. God bless fellas.

[@Vinnys_vids]

Anyone else agree dan is just the coolest dude. I hope to shake his hand one day. Thanks for the great advise.

[@terrymccleery3497]

Thank you guys. Everything made so much sense. I’ve been shooting arrows over 45 years and I know what works for me, But I still mess around with changing up arrows, It’s just fun.

[@morgan6637]

Love your videos - I think our new man left it in Log on the edit, but he's still awesome. Can't wait for the new year of awesome content.

[@justinkomorowski5853]

Great content, the way this video is shot makes me anxious

[@percussionalobsecration6178]

Great information, and I 100% agree. Too many people get caught in thinking they have to have a certain xxx, instead of looking at what is needed for each situation. Even blind and treestand hunting may dictate using a lighter arrow based on trajectory and how dense brush cover is. I experienced this even in 3D archery, as arrows seemed to find a hidden branch or twig hanging in the path of your perfect shot.

[@CoachGoodwin23]

It 100% makes sense. I would do the same. I just can't afford these multiple configs. I shoot 483 Victory SS. Expensive enough for sure. Love this setup with my new 29.5 LIFT. Tac driver ... Love the channel and the content --- keep it coming, Dan and Josh!

[@hook1ak614]

Love when you guys compare and discuss arrows and builds. Would love to see a comparison of the new X10 PARALLEL PRO vs VAP TKO using all match grade components. This would be helpful for spring bear which is around the corner.

[@christophermullen5408]

Love the intro walk. LOLOLOLOLOL

[@camerannC]

This is good discussion.

[@shelbyraines234]

I agree with Josh totally he knows his stuff God bless

[@shelbyraines234]

I tried my arrow setups according to what I've learned from JJ and groups shrunk incredibly and great sight tapes .

[@theeverydaybowhunter]

Every individual has an optimal arrow weight for their setup. There is a specific weight that maximizes both the kinetic energy and momentum (penetration capability) of your arrows. This can also be optimized based on the distance you want it optimized for. Once you know this weight range you can build your arrows and fine tune the FOC for the perfect setup.

[@danielsmith8659]

Thank God for this conversation !!!! It feels good to have shot the same weight since day one and didn’t give in to all the madness from the you know who crowd

[@christiantorres6118]

490 grain rip tko 250 spine, mfjj titanium 50 grain with additional 40 grains gold tip weights for a total 90 grain insert, 125 grain point, 3 fletch max hunter and a wrap. The spine is good with this weight up front. It's a really high foc arrow. Prime Inline 5 at 82 lbs 29.5 dl. I had a pass through on deer at 75 yards with a sever 2.0 last year. I'll be out in 3 days for an arizona otc. Can't wait. Love your content.

[@scottowens9035]

Man I am really like the hat! Where could I pick one of those up!!! Great videos I’ve learned a lot. Thanks!!!

[@tsi-rocket4144]

After a year of arrow research I went with lighter arrows. Ran a 370gr Rip XV with a qad exodus and had plenty of penetration at 35yds. I setup a lighter arrow because the arrow flight is flatter and my pin gap is tighter. Tighter pin gap left less room for error and a more accurate shot in the heat of the moment. The downfall of the rip XV is the arrow is not very durable as I broke two of them hitting something hard being a d#$ba$$ sighting in a slider sight both times. The bow I'm hunting late season is slower and is setup for rip tko's @443gr. My only issue with lighter arrows is the durability of the arrow. Now I practice daily in hopes to make a good shot but I cant predict what a deer is gonna do between my release of the arrow and impact and I worry about hitting the shoulder with a rip xv. Either way I want to stay under 450grains.

[@ryanschlabach7249]

Love the info. What's your speed with the 425gr arrow?

[@matthewhomesley5230]

400+ grain arrows will do everything you need to when bow is tuned up right. Imo there's no debate with a mechanical and fixed head though, fixed head is superior if you want better penetration.

[@it_is_finished]

Of course. But you get a bigger cut with a mechanical. And that’s the debate that’ll never end. Penetration vs cut size.

[@KilleenHunting]

My Rip TKOs are still slightly heavy, hang out around 470gr. I could drop some weight if I took the lighter nocks off but damn I love those Halo nocks

[@user-ye7sm1kt1d]

I like that term the proof in the pudding.

[@jonesboyshunting8673]

Great job guys. Done made my mind up for next year with arrow rip TKO v1. Shooting an Axis right now that I built because of you guys shots are 30 yards and in, 590 grains, cut on contract and mechanical in quiver. Shot a deer quartering away 27 yards pass thru stuck in the log behind it. I've had great success but I've also had a failure this year because of distance. Keep up the great work guys. Also don't be afraid to do some cooking on the channel you know we all like to eat what we kill.

[@BSevenFarms]

Really good comment. Cooking would be a cool add as well.

[@ep3389]

What was your failure all about

[@jonesboyshunting8673]

@@ep3389 I miss judged distance. Knew where the deer was at then the deer moved further away. Equipment didn't fail, I did.

[@ep3389]

@jonesboyshunting8673 good to know thanks!

[@jonesboyshunting8673]

@@ep3389 not a problem anytime

[@timothyhall963]

I agree you should shoot according to the expected distance of what you are hunting I hunt thick dense woods and my max distance is 30 yards and truthfully all my kills have been less than 20yds so i go heavy but if I'm hunting an open field setting I'll go light it's only common sense.

[@corylakics2737]

Never been a heavy arrow guy, last year I shot 2 bucks with 390 grain taw with a tooth of the arrow 100 grain and had full pass through, one at 22 yards one at 40 yards. This year I’m 455 taw with the vap tkos but I’m switching over to some Sirius orions for the lighter gpi. With my arrow at 26” 125 broadhead and 75grain insert collar set I’ll be 440 raw with 20% foc should shoot roughly 305 as my v3 27 after twisting up my cables and setting timing is now pulling 80lbs shoots my 455 setup 300fps.

[@String_Stalker]

Always love the content guys. Im a die hard whitetail hunter here in Pa. I use to think i needed 500-525 grain arrow to be successful at killing a whitetail. Well over the years i found my best set up is around 435-440 grains. Thats shooting a Bowtech SS 34, 31.5” draw, 70 lbs, and a 29.75” arrow length. To this day i laugh when i hear people say you need a super heavy arrow to successfully kill an animal. Negative, you need a well tuned bow, good arrow flight, and most important good shot placement.

[@brokenarrow6491]

I was talking to a guy the other day and he was saying how he used a 800 grain arrow with 300 grains up front and he shot through a whitetails shoulder, through the heart and stuck in opposite shoulder with a fixed two blade head. I shot a whitetail buck with a 380 grain arrow at 27 yards and broke both front shoulders pinning the heart with the arrow. When cleaning the deer I could not get the heart out without breaking the shaft. I was using the 1.75" swhacker. I use one pin 0-40 yards and he has 3 pins for 0-40 yards. My arrow is traveling 315 fps and it breaks bone with no problem. The guy is happy with his 800 grain arrow performance and I'm happy with my 380 grain arrow performance. I'm on my 51st year of bow hunting and I've shot just about every type of bow and arrow set-up and what I'm shooting now is my all time favorite for whitetails.Shoot what gives you confidence and don't worry about what other people use.

[@jackbuendgen389]

Broadhead selection is also an important thing to acknowledge. Dan was running an iron will single bevel. I wonder what his arrow performance would be like if he was running a mechanical or lesser quality fixed broadhead.

[@deanbrantley]

Mechanicals have closed the gap greatly. He didn’t exclusively use IW. He used Sevr and Beast the past few hunts.

[@jackbuendgen389]

@@deanbrantley oh cool didn't know that.

[@IntuitiveUniversity]

Thank God you said that about Deflection. I had a short argument with Ranch fairy about wider three blades being better for penetration when his argument was long and skinny is better. My thoughts is if you took a chisel and nail to a board at 45° what one is more likely to Deflect not getting any penetration.

[@ep3389]

I mean but if the argument is about penetration and not deflection you're still wrong though. And as these guys said very low chance it would deflect in the first place it would have to hit just perfect. You could also argue a 3 blade has a better chance to deflect because it has more surface area to glance of a bone that a 2 blade may never even hit.

[@perryknetter8577]

Josh and Dan Thank you for sharing this great information what a Blessing. I would like your comment on this I'm shooting a 6 grains per pound

[@DRIECUTHoney]

I went from 575 last year, to 475 this year. Shot 5 deer so far had good results (even with some mistakes on my part that resulted in some shoulders getting hit). Of course I had great results from the heavier arrow as well. I dropped weight because I want to practice at 100 yards. I hunt pretty thick stuff typically, but hopefully I’ll get the opportunity to hunt elk someday and figure why not practice now. Before I would practice at 40 and hardly ever take a shot on a deer past 20. The context is everything. At impact, heavier is better. But, you have to get the arrow to that point of impact. Getting closer to the animal and keeping the benefits of a heavy arrow is one option, but let’s not ignore the trade offs. Same applies with an arrow that gives you a more forgiving trajectory.

[@johnmusto5287]

Dan love your Channel awesome content you wouldn't know where I can get some mods for my lift 29.5 I can't enjoy it don't have right mods thanks for listening

[@walterbrown8293]

Throwing the arrow weight argument to the side. I'd love to watch the two of you go through the Ashby Factors and agree/disagree with each one as well as their order of significance

[@crabwalk1891]

Interesting, lean on the side of stiff for spine selection. First, let me say I agree, I’m a 27.5 DL, 73# using a 300 spine but there’s this guy, maybe you’ve heard of him, Chris Bee (haha), he says the exact opposite! Chris is shooting a 350 spine out of his 80# bow, 28” DL! Kinda crazy…. On another note, I’ve put 2 elk in the dirt with my 420 grain set-up, no issues. Victory VAP elite, Easton titanium insert (55grain) 100 grain Exodus broadhead! Cause who doesn’t want a smoke show at 420😂😂 Keep on keepin on!

[@trevordavies2789]

Boys sounded Canadian with all those sorries 🇨🇦

[@Nurquhart88]

Being a guy with a 32in draw. My hunting setup is 600gr. My arrows are stiff and have a high gpi the only way i can get my foc above 10 is to should a heavy broadhead.

[@tommyreed5703]

I shoot a bowtech sr350 at 27 inch draw 73 lbs 27inch rip tko max stealth with podium 30 grain titanium half outs 100 grain grimmreaper white tail special 405 grain arrow at 286 ft second and blow through blacktail with no problem hit a tree last season after pass through and couldn't get the broadhead out of the tree seems plenty to me

[@philiptweet5970]

400-450ish and super sharp !!!

[@ronaldmcguire1581]

I’m 75, shooting 45# w 27” Axis 400, Max range 40yds. Testing 423gr vs 455gr. Will hold off my decision until I get pin gap to 60. Hitting where I think I’m aiming is priority.

[@critter852004]

Josh is right. Two years ago I hunted with 608 grs, most of my shots are 25 and in. I hunt mainly whitetails. I wanted better penetration and the Plan B meat missile arrows gave me an arrogant confidence. This was due to 3 seasons ago, I had a shot which was my fault where I hit the biggest buck I’ve seen on hoof in the shoulder. I was using a 408 gr arrow with a shwacker. It didn’t help that I’m short like Dan, with 26.5 DL 70lbs. The shop I go to always told me bh and arrows don’t matter when shot placement is king. Which is true but sometimes a deer is more quartering to than you realize when you think it’s broadside. So, I went full blown Ranch Fairy disciple . I got my arrow 608 grs, with 125 grain Magnus stinger. I shot 4 bucks with that set up and one is quartering to and I blew his front right shoulder and go his left hind. The deer when 20 yards while wheel barreling. The downside was I shoot a lot 3D shoots. And some of the shots had over hanging brush, and I’d hit it during the trajectory towards the target. So, I switched it up and I went 484 grs this season with TOTA 4 blade vented. I shot two mature bucks on public, and got pass throughs with both deer dying within 50 yds. But I still desire little more speed. I started next years build. 300 spine OG rips with MFJJ’s components 30 gr half out with the 15gr collar. I’m at 449 TAW. I think that’ll be my sweet spot.

[@pre_ban_andy]

Yup, RIP 300 spine sports here.

[@bradleyfarve]

200 spline arrow with 200 grain or 250 grain arrow tip🤷🏻

[@critter852004]

@@pre_ban_andy May ask why you went with the sports over the gamers or elites?

[@pre_ban_andy]

@critter852004 certainly you may. All the arrows are made of the same batch, cut then sorted. .006 is the worst of the run-out in a dozen, and many are more straight than that. If you spin your arrows and cut from both ends (or as run-out dictates) you end up with pretty straight arrows, probably under .003 straight. Because of this, it is cheaper to buy the least straight arrows. You end up with a more than acceptable arrow for hunting. I have shot that build out to 86 yards and held an 8 inch group. The arrow is better than my skills at this point. Do some searching around the webs, and you'll find others that support my thoughts on it.

[@critter852004]

@@pre_ban_andy I’ve read up on it. Some say it does make a difference and some it doesn’t unless you’re the elite of the elite shooters. I shoot out maybe 50 yds in my local 3D shoots and my farthest deer was at 27. I’ve always had arrows in .001-.002 range, but was thinking of going with gamers or sports since the price is a good difference.

[@user-oy6nk8zd1u]

Are we going to see a video on the apa in the background👀

[@user-ye7sm1kt1d]

From your awesome mohawk of Wisdom and knowledge. I was wondering if my Matthew's outback is still relevant. I'm pulling 65 pounds with a 400 grain arrow. What are your opinions about that? I would Love a response if you would have time, sir.

[@steveblaszczyk2100]

Just curious what ever happened with Brent hahn valkyrie broadheads? U made a few vids but no follow-ups made.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Josh is right about the fact that people will take one thing out of a 30 minute video and run with it as gospel. They do that on Troy’s videos all of the time or insert other content creator. Shot placement is king for sure. So is a high quality sharp broadhead. Bison 🦬 are not going to duck and spin an arrow at 40 yards like a whitetail 🦌 does which could cause a shoulder hit or even hard quartering away. So a plan B arrow is nice in those situations for sure. So would being in the timber calling in an elk and he presents a frontal or hard quartering to. But for more open country elk, deer 🦌, pronghorn where longer shots or follow up shots are prevalent then a lighter arrow with the trajectory you like and a high quality flight forgiving and sharp broadhead makes more sense. Arrows are like tools ⚒️, there’s a place for a 16 oz claw hammer 🔨 and a place for a sledgehammer. 👊🏻😎🏹🦌

[@kchak88]

Hi Dan - In your experience, can you switch between AAE IP nocks and lighted nocks (e.g., nockturnals) without changing sight tape or adjusting sight pins? I realize there’s around a 15 grain difference between the two, so just wondering what you’ve seen.

[@kylerbowers180]

Off topic question, bought the lift 29.5 and want to add some color to my strings. Is it worth sticking with match or should I go gas or what I usually run twisted x

[@joshuajensen2430]

Awesome brief discussion. I'm glad Josh explained the deflection about two blades because it explained a bit what happened with my buck this year that I shot at at about 3 yards from the ground and it hit a bit forward then came out really low infront of the leg. Keep up the great work!

[@-lovefromnh]

Damn! Is he still kickin?

[@joshuajensen2430]

@-lovefromnh6770 no sir, died within 50 years but I was perplexed!

[@-lovefromnh]

@@joshuajensen2430 that's awesome! Crazy how things work out sometimes!

[@FredFunk-yq9jl]

I might need to change my set up for arrows. I’m using a 340 spine 29 inches with a 85 grain montec. Pulling 55 pounds as of now and hopefully being at 60 or more by next year’s bow season. I’m in Kansas hunting tree stands but never had any help from anyone about what not to do.

[@XXXston3wallXXX]

Goldtips spine chart shows your arrow having adequate spine.

[@Danny-el8ww]

As an engineering student (currently have my AS in engineering science pursuing my bachelors) people that are into physics know that velocity is the biggest factor in kinetic energy. Now conservation of momentum is a factor, but that's assuming you're getting the same speed as your light arrow, which you need to raise your spring constant to do. Increasing arrow mass, especially too much and dramatically decreasing your velocity will decrease your momentum, and you may end up with less than a lighter arrow. I'd say you're best off testing arrow weights to find the velocity out of your bow, and then doing the math out of where you maximize your energy and momentum if that's your goal.

[@Futurase1]

I run 70lbs on bow and 435 grain Victory RIP TKO with GrimReaper Fatal Steel expandable. I have had EXCELLENT success. NEVER a single issue. Flat trajectory. Most of my shots have been 25-30 yards from elevated stand. 1 from ground blind with that setup. Longest is 41 yards elevated. Every single one pass thru and deer went down in less than 50 yards.

[@knuckledragger2412]

Here i am shooting the same arrow at everything. 400ish grains with an Iron will. Switched this year from a slick trick for no reason at all. Trying something new. Im a close the distance guy so nothing past 60 at anything. Whitetail even less.

[@bigz5262]

Nice intro

[@jacoblogsdon2850]

KE=1/2 mV² is 👑. The only nice thing about a lighter arrow is flight path or trajectory. Which is a very important metric in many situations.

[@longridgearchery]

I’ve shot elk with 425gr to 650gr arrows mainly because I like to play with different arrows. Weight plays a factor in things obviously but I tell everyone that there are a lot of things to worry about before you think arrow weight will solve your arrows performance problems.

[@D18Y]

Dan what jacket are you wearing?

[@stevemarod6162]

So I've got arthritis in my shoulders and only shoot 52-54#s at 29.5" draw length. Would you still recommend a 425 gr arrow or go heavier?

[@mattguzman73]

What’s the speed difference between 425gr and 475gr? I honestly wouldn’t know! I would love to see Dans shots through chrono with both arrows. I was considering going lighter (by 25gr) going from 468 to 443 for whitetail but I just am not sure I should. Lol

[@ronaldmcguire1581]

I should’ve made breakfast and joined you guys

[@zachs13]

I have a 30.5 inch draw, 80 pound draw weight. Currently shooting a 250 spine x impact with 125gr head, 55gr Easton titanium half out. TAW is 480gr. Wanting to tinker with Easton Long Range Match arrows. I want to shed some weight, but it's hard at my draw length and weight to stay reasonably light while maintaining decent FOC. Mocked up a build with 300 spine shafts, AAE Hybrid HP vanes just because they're the lightest vanes that meet my dimension requirements. Sticking with the Easton titanium half outs and dropping to 100gr heads, it looks like I can shave about 30 grains total arrow weight, but FOC drops to about 13%, especially if I try lighted Halo nocks. Any ideas? My non-negotiables are FOC above 13%, no aluminum components, TAW 455 or ideally a little less, vanes at least half inch tall and obviously as light as possible. I really want to try the Easton. I also would love to run lighted nocks. I've ran the Victory RIP XV but had severe durability issues, and it scared me away. Shame, because that GPI offered a lot of flexibility for me.

[@bwiz1234]

Wonder why my rage hypo, didnt pass thru , looked like it dead stopped on a rib. Wonder of i just had wack arrow flight.

[@diaryofagoat-lass1023]

So for a crossbow, with 180lb draw weight, 13.5 power stroke and 380fps Combined with a 385grain bolt and a 125 grain broad head, that will cover both whitetail and elk? I'm already prepared to get a set of 425 bolts from my crossbow manufacturer if that's what I need to do. And I've been told for crossbow, fixed blade is better...? (Elk season is a ways away so I'm making sure to practice and learn lots beforehand and even then, I may not get to go.) Greetings from Saskatchewan.

[@buckrush8612]

Personally I only shoot fmj’s due to a carbon arrow breaking when I shot and the last 6 inches of arrow went into my hand but with my draw length they end up around 480-450 depending on my broad head

[@nathenemmons8301]

That sucks so bad. I know I should bend my arrows after every shot but definitely do not. Sorry that happened.

[@buckrush8612]

@@nathenemmons8301 thanks yeah it taught me a a valuable lesson was 14 when it happened they were brand new arrows tho so pretty sure whoever cut em messed one up still my fault for not checking but Easton heard about it and payed for a large amount of my surgery when they didn’t have to still very loyal to them because of that

[@brycekearns207]

Curious about always go stiff...recently Chris Bee had mentioned he talked to Mark Hayes while tuning the lift at 80 pounds saying mathews prefered a weaker spine arrow. Thoughts???

[@scottdavis2133]

That bit in that video had me scratching my head as well. All I can figure is that I know Chris likes to keep his front end on the lighter side with broadheads and inserts. I can get away with a 340 spine shooting 28 inches at 70 pounds, but only if I use standard 18-20 grain aluminum inserts and 85-100 grain tips. Any heavier up front and the 340 arrow doesn't tune well for me. My standard setup is 300 spine with 125 grain broadheads and 50-75 grain inserts. I still think 340 is a weak spine for 70, let alone 80 pounds, but if it works for him, more power to him.

[@jonathanperillo1795]

I think there is a few reasons to err on the side of stiffer. Too Weak of a spine with fixed broadheads gives inconsistent flight. Stiffer spine recovers faster from archers paradox (more energy transferred to the arrow). Less flex on impact as well, thus better penetration. Static and dynamic spine are completely different, so let the bow tell you what spine to shoot…at least that’s my theory.

[@scottdavis2133]

@@jonathanperillo1795 agreed

[@gobofulll]

this is completely my opinion and yes I could be wrong. I do think that a heavier weight arrow and higher FOC is more of a benefit to traditional archery, we are for the most part with a few exceptions hunting with in 40 yards even with larger animals. We are lacking the speed and the energy from that you get out of compound bows. So to be it seems we have to make up for it with some mass in are arrow whole still tuning are arrows properly. I am showing a 40lbs reflex deflex long bow. Even with my light arrows for 3D being about 423 they are gold tip traditional 500 I am only shooting around 175 FPS my hunting arrows Easton Carbon Legacy 5MM are 518 and shooting around 158 last I checked but I actually group better and definitely hit harder with them. I am only confident hunting up to 30 yards and hunt deer, Turkey and coyotes. For me I feel the trade off in speed is worth the energy transfer. But to each there own, I don’t hunt elk and I don’t use a compound and I am shooting with in 30 yards.

[@ericwolbert3256]

Oh, I know is since I went up from 425 to 550 grain with a good premium broadhead I have watched every deer die within sight! And every arrow is buried in the ground and I do mean buried for me it makes sense to shoot a heavier set up in thick timber but I get where you’re coming from with longer shots! There is no one quick fix answer for everything!

[@loganknoble2797]

If I had a long draw like most, I wouldn't care about arrow weight. Unfortunately I'm at 25.5". I feel like you may think differently with a short draw and a light arrow. I want pass throughs though.

[@donfrance3]

My max distance is 120 yards with today's technology and precision equipment.and minimum 70# draw for western big game. Shot placement is key. Shot pass thru's on deer and elk happens with double lung shots whether the distance is long or close. My longest kill shots on deer are 111 and 117 yards with a 375 grain arrow delivered from a 2 finger back tension release and a 5x Zeiss lens in the scope and sometimes a clarifier peep. Of course this is for open range hunts and not the typical tree stand situation. There is no limit to what the archer can accomplish when they develop the right shooting skills; and that takes a lot of the right kind of practice. Shoot what works for your situation and have realistic practice as much as possible for best results.

[@jonathanbarksdale8595]

Did I miss what arrows weighed? What weight?

[@sheyanderson4371]

I know I don’t “need” a 505-520g setup to harvest an animal, but it’s what I prefer with my setup. I am not the most experienced/skilled hunter, so I do consider plan b situations and a slightly heavier setup is what I am more confident with. I have noticed on KZbin and social media that most hunters that prefer lighter setups (under 500g) are more experienced and skilled hunters. They consistently put themselves in optimal positions and make accurate shots. RF and other heavier setup promoters, are trying to help and appeal to hunters like me that aren’t quite there in experience or skill. Giving us the best option in multiple scenarios.

[@Caincando1]

But a faster arrow is more forgiving and forgiveness is what less skilled archer needs, not less forgiving. A slower arrow gives the animal more time to move. Plus when animals move they move down and away (at least deer do) which is moving the shoulder and heavy leg bone away from the shot not towards it. So the odds of hitting them are super low. So it would make more sense to build for high odds not low odds. The highest odds are of an animal moving so you want to hit the soft vitals as soon as possible. The lowest odds by far are hitting heavy bone. So don’t build for that because that hinders the high odds shots.

[@sheyanderson4371]

​@@Caincando1 The difference between a 300fps and 250fps arrow at 30yds is .06 seconds. Speed of sound to 30yds is .08 sec. In cases where an animal moves, assuming a perfectly executed shot, arrow speed isn't the factor for best odds, aiming point is. Aiming lower 3rd, inside the vital v, gives you the most forgiveness for any setup on moving animals. Almost any modern setup can go through soft tissue at that point, so the next consideration is bone. If we are talking best odds, not only what is necessary, than heavier arrows always have better odds for penetration and bone.

[@ericjb80]

A wise man told me speed kills, and that can be applied to a lot of things.

[@stick__shooter]

What's your launch speed on the 425 vs 475 arrows? Your shooting 75 pounds at 27" or so?

[@stevehall4130]

50 grain arrow weight difference. U lose about 1 fps for every 5 grains of arrow weight. Heavier arrows are 10 fps slower…

[@jeradlene1732]

Lol i love it

[@NMBowhntr]

God love you guys! Great content, and I’m plagiarizing “I’m sorry I’m not sorry”. Too hilarious. (The inventor of Wilderness Athlete says “Hi”, Dan. Believe you’ve gone to dinner with him? We are friends here in NM.)

[@skoolynugenator1802]

What about hunting in wind?

[@Vondoobie]

Does the material of the insert matter if it's a hit style insert?

[@scottdavis2133]

Depends on how much FOC you want. A brass insert will be denser and have more weight than the standard aluminum. I've been using the brass HIT insert from Easton for 3 years now without a collar and the only broken arrows I've suffered were 2, I shot into trees, and they broke when I bent them too far trying to get them out. Now I also shoot Gold Tip Kentics with an aluminum insert and collar from R.O.C and I've never had a breakage with them either, even though they're 30 grains less weight than my Easton HIT inserts. Moral of the story I think it's all just personal preference and what FOC are you trying to achieve.

[@Caincando1]

If a 425 arrow works a long distances, it will work at short distances. Deer (at least here in the Midwest) are jumpy and will duck an arrow at 20-30 yards. So there's no reason to slow down for short range.

[@danielogden4478]

Hold on so In hunting you can plan to shoot a perfect shot but stuff can happen and you might accidentally hit the shoulder so your saying get a heavy arrow no matter what?

[@StanielP]

Why does it look so hazy ?

[@Brockytop]

I'm 31" and shoot 75 lbs, is 200 grains of point weight too much for a 250 RIP TKO @ 29.5"? They seem to shoot well.

[@jonathanperillo1795]

I’m shooting 225grains up front on a 29” 250 spine RIP TKO shaft…30.5” draw and 75lbs. I also run a 4 fletch, wrap and lighted nock, so that helps balance it out as far as dynamic spine. It’s shooting lights out for me.

[@Angel.Custodio]

I hunt the northeast so it’s all a moot point for me lol

[@african7498]

Have you ever read Ashby reports - sounds like you saying the same thing. Perfect arrow flight number one - it's not as you guys like to portray - simply bump up weight. That is misrepresentation. Perfect arrow flight, heads that don't break (sometimes why they thicker and heavier). It's as you say - there has been a progression towards heavier arrows - based on experience. No one says go 800 or 1000 grains unless hunting stuff like buff.

[@josephr1198]

The heavy arrow phenomena is simple. People were having issue, the industries solution to the issues were working, RF and Ashby offered a solution that worked. Because of their success, the industry finally started talking about it, so now people are going back. The thing i like about MFJJ is that he acknowledges the ashby reports and heavy arrow stuff works, his argument is about the legitimacy of it. Where other people try to attack that or disprove it. Which isnt helpful and is unnecessary

[@jokostel]

Did you save a damn burger for me? I’m starving

[@04702c]

Agree with all you say there is to light of arrow and also too heavy of arrow on both spectrums but being an opened minded hunter that wants to learn….what about all the proof with shooting heavier F.O.C. Aka Ranch Fairy. He actually shoots carcasses with hair meat and bones and also uses equipment measuring velocities over distances. I agree proper shot placement is most important, but if hunting long enough you know that doesn’t always happen, so why wouldn’t you want to be prepared for that situation and at least giving the animal that much respect. To prove your point why don’t you perform same test with lighter and mechanical broad heads on an elk/deer carcass, not ballistic gel.

[@-_-hi8964]

Both are too light the Sweet Spot is 550. And you say you watched the Ranch Fairy.

[@lifeoffthefarm791]

My comment on the other video commenting on the elk arrow vs deer arrow . If the elk arrow weight worked at 40 plus yards why build and even heavier arrow for deer at 20-30 yards. Still passes thru both animals. I’m just don’t see the advantage to run a heavier arrow. No disrespect or hate , but I can’t see the logic in it.

[@wyohntr]

I understand the argument here: shorter shots on whitetail mean your not worried as much about arrow traj. However it's a bit confusing because you're also simultaneously making the argument that there is no benefit to the heavier arrow on elk. So if there really is no benefit to the heavy arrow, why would you bother going heavier even if the shots are going to be shorter? Especially given the fact that penetration is much less of a concern on a whitetail vs elk.

[@jwild5360]

Idc how heavy you go with whatever head you choose if you hit the wrong part of the shoulder on whitetail you ain’t killing it. Period. It’s a 50/50 battle

[@Caincando1]

Are you saying it's a 50% chance of hitting the shoulder? I would say its significantly less than that. The shoulder only cover a very little bit of the lung/heart vital area on a whitetail. Plus when they move they are going down and away. They are actually moving the shoulder away from the shot not towards it. If you aim in the middle (front to back) of the lung/heart vitals (not covered by the shoulder), the odds of hitting the shoulder are super low.

[@jwild5360]

@@Caincando1 I’m saying if you hit shoulder your 50/50 on killing it no matter what arrow head combo your using.

[@Caincando1]

@@jwild5360 I understand what you are saying now. I think it varies a lot depending on where you hit in them in the shoulder. There are parts that are a lot harder than others.

[@jwild5360]

@@Caincando1 yep which is why i posted that comment lol

[@JamesBond-oc4gm]

Lol i saw that comment mfjj is talking about. 🤣🤣🤣

[@brianmalick2946]

IMO it doesn't make sense to add weight just for the reason that you are taking shorter shots. Find your sweet spot and practice practice practice. We hunt deer and elk in the same season. So this approach for me wouldn't make sense.

[@mattbakerg]

All this weight dropping starting to sound like a Jenny Craig commerical

[@gordie4059]

400 club

[@timgruver5932]

This different arrow setups for different hunting scenarios is nothing new. I’ve always had elk & antelope arrows lighter than my whitetail by 40 to 50 grains. And with smaller fixed blade heads like Slick Trick standards. Offer less wind deflection that way IMO. Anyone that’s hunted much at all should know there’s a lot of advantages to having the flattest trajectory given your particular setup. Hunting “ out west” can easily involve a 60+ yard shot. And when that animal moves even 5 yards farther that flatter trajectory can be the answer.

[@paulheberling2750]

Come on bra, there’s broadheads that weigh more than your entire whitetail arrow! Let’s get the 🧚‍♀️ dust!

[@VitalyMack]

Fastest and lightest arrow is always going to be the utopia or archery, or any other type of shooting. Fact is most guys can't shoot worth a SHIT, no matter what they say on the internet. And no matter how fast or light the arrow is they are still going to miss. The argument for majority of shooters that the deer jumped the string is almost always bull. The main problem almost always is that the shooter can't shoot a bow, can't do it quietly, and don't expect the animal to move. For vast majority of guys they need a heavier arrow, and some time at range. Fun fact, is that evert guy on the internet shoots MOA groups out of their "Walmart" rifle, yet not one has been able to replicate said achievement outside the realm of the youtube comment section.

[@licensetochill79]

MFJJ rubs me the wrong way.. he makes me question everything I thought I knew about archery😂. He also rubs my wallet the wrong way because dollars keep flying out of it lll

[@mikenutto396]

So I watched this whole division in bow hunting. This discussion alone has caused so much division. Nobody is preaching use an 800 grain arrows ( except for African big game) mjff goes there you went there with Arron Schneider. Everyone has a different take on this, deflection can happen with three blade and with two blade, and with mechanicals. The real point is you have to find what works for you in the situation your in! Speed isn't everything , weight isn't everything. Tuning your bow and arrow set up makes a big difference! Knowing your equipment makes a big difference. Let's get off of this light arrow verse heavy arrows discussion, and move forward with bowhunting! Let people make up their own minds.

[@therealdilloutdoors616]

You guys must be hunting fat slow white tails. Down south our whitetails are stupid fast when it comes to ducking making a lighter Arrow the way to go

[@jaslau22]

Why is it the guys always shooting light arrows are justifying themselves? Light arrows with mechanicals equal disaster! Hence the wounded elk.

[@bigz5262]

If you would have gotten a full passthrough, meaning the arrow completely out of the animal, it would have a better chance of bleeding out regardless of hitting vitals. What that guy said about the arrow being 100 grains heavier is valid. Jumping from “adding a hundred grains” to “nobody is using an 800 grain arrow” is really disingenuous and petty