Is Your Putter Obsolete? | No Putts Given

[@jeromekemmer8148]

The thing I miss the most from scrambles from years gone by, is a steak dinner.

[@grantss1]

Re the ultimate scramble team, scrambles are called "ambrose" here in Australia and have a rule that every player must contribute at least three drives/tee shots. This means pulling in a player who can hardly swing a club and is just there to inflate the team handicap has a downside. It also makes for some interesting decision making, e.g. your ace player hits a 250m bomb but your high-handicapper manages to get one on the fairway, albeit 190m down. Do you take the 190m drive (and tick off one of the three drives for the high-handicapper) or the 250m drive?

[@lkae4]

Ping is definitely the safest driver. I bought a G410 LST for a backup, probably 95% performance of my Ping 10K at 20% the cost. As far as putters, LAB is on another level. The market must and will adjust to this force. How LAB responds in the next five years will be interesting. I hope they keep the quality, innovation and customer service high.

[@orlandogolfguruogg5382]

I’d love a 4th putter test. All vs all. I loved your blades v mallet test. Let’s do a blade v mallet v torque less test!

[@oldred1959]

Scrambles, 4 drives each minimum lessens the impact of the high handicap pick.

[@stape22]

+27 USGA handicap. Just started playing golf in May this year. Will join your scramble team. DFW, Texas Local.

[@theycallmehoipilloi5495]

Scrambles, it's amazing how often the last team to turn in their card ends up winning. Very mysterious. :-) I've used an older Rossie ll putter for years that I love. It feels like a baseball glove that I used for years, we're married. I did need to have it bent to flatten it out a smidge that really helped. My biggest problem is reading greens. If someone brings out a putter that reads greens, I would seriously look at that. I hate the look of the L.A.B. putters. They're like PXG irons to me, they aren't sexy, they're ugly. So, if I can't look at it, I don't think I can putt with it. Besides, the prices for those things are ludicrous. Hey, just one golfer's opinion.

[@Siggy_Sour]

Our league maxes out at 16 for 9 and my dad shoots over 60 regularly. But we tied for second with a 25 this year because he actually played okay when i blowing it. had to use 4 of his drives too! thanks driver off the deck lol.

[@Roberto-bd9fq]

I don't think it will take 20 years though golfers are stubborn, I had an old Ray Cook, Silver Streak, then won an HB2 Mallet by Cleveland, and now I love that thing. Since most people's putting is relatively poor, not enough practice, this change will be rapid and gathering steam as it makes putting easier, more consistent, as there are fewer variables in the equation, as in fewer things to go wrong. Another question might be will this change the way people putt. I putt like no one else, but many try to emulate some pro, or use arm lock, or other methodologies of putting, Will this type of putter effect that. In other words, is there an optimum putting style to use with these types of putters.

[@FretLevelMidnight]

I have to say, I've done a great deal of research on L.A.B. putters before I bought my Link.1, and I'm sorry, 1) the PXG Allen is factually not zero torque, people can get angry about this, that's their prerogative, but it factually isn't, this is why your putts were favoring to the left and L.A.B. were not, zero torque putters by definition do not favor a side. 2) The L.A.B. putters are objectively zero torque, and no matter how long you've been playing the adjustment to this putter design is minimal. If you get fitted for a L.A.B. putter (I did) you will see a blatant and factual difference, people can get mad about this, I'm sure when Karsten came out with the Anser 1-A many stubborn golfers were upset their loved putters were made obsolete, but this is just innovation in action. I'm sure there are many great golfers that putt great with what they have already, but the L.A.B. putters are the only putters on the market at the moment that are zero torque by definition (short of maybe only Honu putters), and they will make anyone a better putter no matter the skill level by the simple elimination of the variable that is lie angle. You can disagree with me all you want, and I'll smile as I listen to you argue objective fact, but we have not had a putter innovation since the Anser 1-A until L.A.B. came on the scene, and I'm sorry I also disagree with you on the idea that companies should not scrap their previous designs, they absolutely should, the old designs are dated and obsolete, you can be as stubborn as you want and play with whatever you want, but the facts of lie angle balance will not change nor will the benefits. Lastly, to the people that are saying the L.A.B. putters are too expensive, while also owning multiple Scotty's is kind of hilarious, there's also a L.A.B. Golf Outlet website you can Google that has the putters often at half price. I'm not affiliated with L.A.B. Golf in any way, and am merely posting about my own experiences. Cheers.

[@josephnewman713]

I see the revolution coming because of the number of good young players adopting LAB putters. Its easier to convert a player who has not used the same putter or style of putter for 20+ years. I think LAB and Lab clones will have 30%+ market share within 5 years.

[@beaujangles2215]

The Kim story, reminds me of happy Gilmore when happy broke the rake, and threw it into the woods…and when asked if he threw the rake and he says no, it’s made of wood, and he was putting it in the woods to be back with his family…🤣🤣

[@GolfSpyC]

Exactly!

[@chipolonie]

I’ve been testing putters with a mechanical putting arm. The testing has been focused on forgiveness on off centre strikes. 20mm heel, centre, 20mm toe. I tested the Ai face, a bunch of other putters. The LAB Mezz was the worst performing putters in the testing with a heel strike falling more than 2ft short on a 12ft putt. The spider was in 2nd place. The Ai face wasn’t amazing. I only tested 8 different putters but it was a real eye opener. I can’t imagine how far short a 50ft putt would fall if you have a 20mm heel strike with a Mezz. To be fair I have putted with a DF3 and it didn’t feel as punishing but this was just my feels, I’ve not had the DF3 in the mechanical rig.

[@GolfSpyC]

One of many reasons that human testing>robot testing

[@chipolonie]

The Mezz and the DF3 are both very different. I stand by the robot testing. I’d never use a Mezz having tested it like this. Sorry if you are a Mezz user.

[@christopherbinnie5384]

Pretty incredible the turn of events of the last couple of years where putter tech is increasing as much as Driver tech.

[@brenthudgins7354]

The LAB putter fit is the greatest function over form golf improvement piece of equipment I’ve ever owned.

[@billsinclair313]

I agree! It is amazing. Took my putting to where it should be. Shaved 4-5 strokes off my game immediately.

[@johnbrodnik839]

Have you broken 40 putts per round yet?

[@billsinclair313]

@ I have. Recently shot 81 and two 82’s lately. On the 81 no 3 putts, some up and downs, two lip outs and one 360 that didn’t fall. Should have shot 78 but that’s golf.

[@MrPanukkio]

Great episode! 1. In every scramble I have ever played the group handicap can not be higher than the lowest individual hcp in the group. But if that is not the case I would challenge Tonys group 8 days in week with a group includin myself (+1hcp) and three 36hcp guys. 2. Noticed the same with Allan. Could not stop missing left.

[@briarmeadow]

Obsolete? I think we've certainly turned over a new page in the putting world. I'm seeing varieties of LAB putters at all the golf courses. I have friends that are buying them. I'm not there yet, at least at this moment. Currently, my biggest cause of missing putts isn't because I jack up the swing and miss my line, it's because I didn't read the green right. Biggest bang for my efforts right now is improving my green reading. Perhaps time / effort better spent learning techniques like AIMPOINT. ?? Does AIMPOINT have a measurable level of improvement . . . .

[@johnbrodnik839]

Or seeing an Opthomologist who plays golf!

[@lkae4]

Aimpoint? Do you really want to spend the rest of your golf life sticking fingers in the air and doing a Humpty Dumpty walk over your putting line? Get a LAB with full alignment lines and a Callaway Triple Track or a Titleist Performance Alignment ball and go play golf.

[@golfish8589]

Maybe you read the put correctly but poor eye alignment is deceiving your brain

[@briarmeadow]

@@lkae4 I can’t say I’m a fan of the Aimpoint routine. All the measuring and pacing and hand gestures seen to introduce something foreign to the process of reading a green and putting. Yet if I’m putting with a DF3 or my DS72, if I roll the putt beautifully down the wrong path I still miss the cup.

[@lkae4]

@@briarmeadow Tiger method or Ricky Fowler plumb bob method with some practice and maybe a putting coach session should do you fine. The coaching session is just to get another set of eyes on your routine and mechanics. I've gotten one putting lesson from Club Champion when I was putter fit. I definitely recommend that. My optimal loft is -1 degree according to the CC camera. And it's right. I've dropped some unreal putts. Even my friends are stunned by how the ball keeps rolling. Optimal forward roll which very few of my buddies have with their putters.

[@robertsprouse8903]

Looking for a two bladed putter, sometimes I like right handed other times left :)

[@johnbachman8908]

For the most part the putters looks are a big issue unless they are truly hideous looking or my opinion of hideous. I have a couple putters I used this year. One is 4 years old and the other is 19. Most of the really great putters I know use older putters. If it sets up well and you’re comfortable with it, use it. Most of the poor putters problem is they can’t read greens and no club will help that. I personally won’t pay $400 plus for a putter.

[@Siggy_Sour]

im too good with a #7 to try that new fangled stuff. #7 is wild enough for now lol

[@Golfzilla70]

"the rules are there to benefit you" --- yep, if you can figure out an underhanded way to get around the spirit of the rule, you're a master. Which is the primary reason TV golf sucks so bad today, and PART of the reason the long drive bombers have such an advantage. With all the TV towers and stands around, you can have a guy that's hit a ball 350 yards, but two fairways over, and he winds up getting a free drop that has a perfect lie and an unfettered look at the pin. This situation is actually worse than making guys play out of divots in the fairway, IMHO.

[@chriskline980]

Patrick Reed on the scramble team for sure

[@geoffcohen613]

what about the best putters like Wilson 8802 and Titleist Bullseye, and Zebra these still are best on fast sloping greens. Scrambles in Australia are rarely played except at charity days and some corporate days. Those who have a handicap index use daily course handicap, those players with out a handicap get 27. the team handicap is 1/8th of combined. also restrictions such as 3 drives from each player, or another version is drop out, where player whose shot is selected doesn't hit next shot all way to green. On greens all 4 players putt..

[@garym8024]

never say never guys remember what the anser did to the bullseye and 8802 style

[@jshyne213]

On the scramble team you need someone from Arthur Anderson to work the numbers.

[@Snowman9K]

Since all of the new torque balanced putters are selling for almost $500 on up, all of the companies will jump on that. PS: I use a LAB Mezz.1 and love it.

[@toddmullis3249]

Look at the new Envroll Zero putters coming out. I bet Scotty will come out with a reverse hosel Newport and it will sell like crazy.

[@GolfSpyC]

Yep love how these look at address....the straight shaft is going to appeal to a ton of golfers

[@TheChismillionaire]

The scramble team leaves out the best scramble partner that exists- the very good female or senior player who is playing from the forward tees. That's such an advantage.

[@GolfSpyC]

This is absolutely a cheat code!

[@johnbrodnik839]

Tried one and could not get the ball to the hole on a long putt of 20 ft test. Friend has one and it rolls the ball well but on slightly slower greens it’s too heavy and slow. Maybe the Link 1 might be better..

[@13vansman]

I do not like the looks of the LAB putters at all. Could it help my game, maybe, but I have so many other putters that I do love. I don't think my "putting stroke" is wrong or would lower my scores much. Sometimes I just read the lie incorrectly. Some of my higher shot counts are due to flubs getting to the green. Golfshot has my putting average at 2.08, which doesn't seem horrible to me, of course it could be better though, I'd rather spend time working on hitting shots closer to the hole, than relying on 1 putting 15+ foot putts.

[@alexshearer3227]

They don’t get much credit, but seems like Edel was the leader when it comes to torque balancing, counter-balanced putters and putter fitting. Other OEMs were late to the party.

[@GolfSpyC]

No doubt that Edel should be part of this conversation....and hopefully they'll be part of the "Great Torque-Off of 2025"

[@Juddly05]

Lucky my hand can clamp on and resist torque if my hands were bearings I’d been keen on a LAB putter…

[@GolfSpyC]

The question is why have your hands do something that they don't need to be doing?

[@undergroundupholstery]

Couldn’t stand my custom fitted df3

[@pedroc6823]

I am just waiting for Ping to finally get rid of those turbulators

[@Handletaken4]

I watched Finch play on longer and shaggier greens last month and it seems he needed a 5 degree loft to get the ball up and rolling. Different lofts?

[@danmalin2935]

The change in putters will mainly be slowed by cost. Most guys are not ready to spend $500 for a putter.

[@maxoutauto]

Agree

[@johnpaugh1607]

Not ready to spend over 150 for a putter

[@tezzlacoilz]

But ready to spend $500+ on a new driver which basically gives no real performance advantage compared to the prior 5+ years. But will say a putter with new proven technology that is totally different to older putter design, which you use more than any other club in your bag, is way too expensive 😂 It's insanity.

[@mjschwencke]

Today I holded two puts from 20 feet with my 19.75 euro putter from Decatlon . I sold my Ping putter.

[@DavidBay-p6u]

Agree to expensive

[@BenHittingGreens]

Yes. Many golfers can’t use a club they find ugly.

[@GolfSpyC]

No doubt, subjective elements will always be part of purchasing decisions and how a club looks matters more to some golfers than others. That said, if we look at putters specifically, I'd argue that golfers are MORE willing to play less conventional designs now than ever before.

[@FretLevelMidnight]

You find the Link.1 ugly?

[@Golfzilla70]

strokes in scramble tournaments --- Tony and Chris, i think you're just touching the surface of what just about everyone that gets involved in any sort of handicap tournament has been saying forever --- that guys with higher handicaps usually beat guys with lower handicaps. The system is broken, it has been for a very long time. It's not a fair trade-off right now, and no one is 100% sure what to do about it. My thoughts are that handicap scores should be registered by scoring each hole, and then the computer throwing out everyone's worst 6 holes over 18 and then generate the index. Or something along those lines. Just for a personal example of this that i've seen with my own eyes: we have regular shootouts at my local club, and they separate it into flights (these are two-man "best ball" teams) --- the "championship" flight consists of the best golfers, all the way down to the 5th flight, which those guys wind up getting the most strokes. When the 18 hole match is over, the winners of each of those flights play a "shootout" (handicaps included) with one team getting eliminated on each hole until you have one team standing (there's a "chip-off" if no outright loser on each hole to be sure one team is eliminated). I didn't realize it myself until i started playing in them about 10-15 years ago, but the first one i was in the guys told me that the championship flight guys NEVER win, it's always someone in either the first flight or the 2nd flight. And over the years i came to agree with him because i saw it with my own eyes. If the handicap system was right, you'd see someone from each flight winning every so often, but it was almost always someone in the 2nd flight.

[@craig3775]

Seeing as I play a Honma persimmon driver, MacGregor Muirfield irons and a TM TD 1-iron, this video might not be for me 😮

[@matthewjohnson1643]

Unfortunately the one club where looks and comfort matter more is putters.

[@atxrich]

For what it’s worth, I think the surveys MGS conducts with its readers contains fair amount of (unintentional) bias based on its comparison test results and this podcast. The praise the G430 Max 10K has gotten at MGS it’s no surprise Ping finished 1st. We’re all golf gear nuts but ask the average non-MGS golfer these same questions and I’d not be surprised you get vastly different answers. At the end of the day these results are purely for discussion amongst MGS followers but nothing else.

[@mygolfspyvideos]

Or just thousands of shots and millions of data points 😂

[@alankasjan6488]

Am I reading the results correctly? If I play 5 rounds of golf, I should see 1/2 a shot saved.

[@golfish8589]

Why would you make a tester think about any negative thoughts they may have about a putters looks before they actually test them? You should be doing everything possible to have neutral testing.

[@tonythaiger93]

I rarely see golfers practice lag putting on driving range. It's not the putter tbh.

[@SortaLikeGolf]

LOL my putter is a 1950s Northwestern I bought for $5 in a thrift shop. Quality never goes out of style!

[@scshupe7411]

It all comes down to fitting… average golfers have no clue about what a good putter actually means. Putter testing across a broad group is almost completely meaningless.

[@markmaioli4]

L.A.B. putters & they're ilk will gain traction slowly because most current players have honed their putting stroke with whatever putter they prefer and the L.A.B. putter requires an adjustment. BUT if you make the change & put in some work they CAN help. EXAMPLE: R Fowler has gone from 110th strokes gained in 2024 to 19th, 44th & 2nd in his past 3 tourneys using the L.A.B. Quite the eye opener!

[@ahastar1141]

They also similar to Takomo have got a number of putters into golf influencer hands. Just seeing them around more in general will spur peoples interest. Tough thing with putters is they are personal for alot of people and the one club people may have in the bag for decades. I think getting consumers to try the putters under a fitting environment is the best way to show these putters off, however that is a pretty tough ask when its hard to get people to get fitted for other clubs. For many a putter fitting is fairly low on the todem pole, despite being a club we use more than any other

[@davidvandenberg6955]

I have a lab df3 fantastic putt but I think the price of these putters are what’s going to keep people away from them

[@GolfSpyC]

People said the same about Yeti coolers....I'm not suggesting that price *might not keep the masses away from LAB for now, but ultimately the market continues to show that if a product proves to be uniformly better, people will pay for it. Now, if it's not, then we have a laserdisc situation on our hands....

[@landonvanhorn592]

Made in the USA, unlike all the others. Support american jobs

[@Groovethumper69]

No real need to be lie angle fit for a broomstick. They need to be as upright as the rules allow.

[@jongeephotography]

I could care less what my putter looks like. I look at the hole when i putt😎

[@lyndelf]

The honest truth didn't work out very well for NFL QB Anthony Richardson last weekend when he told reporters he took himself out of the game because he was "TIRED"!! Be careful what you wish for........

[@jongeephotography]

Difference is Tom Kim's antics didn't cost his team in the game....

[@atamagashock]

Not for me… I’ve tried ever LAB Putter they make…100% not for me. Putting is easily the best part of my game and I’ve used the same slant neck anser style head for over 20 years. Works perfectly for me and my stroke. Maybe I could convert my entire putting style to work better with the LAB stuff, but as of now all they do for me is a right push. Plus I think they are hideous to look at, and that alone takes me out of consideration. I’ll stick with my Newport 1.5, 1.5+,2.5+, and my og TaylorMade Rossa Daytona 6

[@FretLevelMidnight]

Was the L.A.B. putter you used fitted for your specific lie angle? If not, I'm sorry, but your comment is factually not relevant.

[@edwinlambley2801]

As soon as your mates start knocking in more putts you will change.

[@BenHittingGreens]

How many golfers putt with roller balls on their hands so the grip twists all over? None. So I feel this isn’t much more than confirmation bias driven by marketing. I’m sure you showed all testers the ‘revealer’ and they putt better with it. Similar to the old infomercials for various ‘new’ golf club technology. Tear drop putters, the ones that stand up on their own, the alien wedge and so on. Folks aren’t changing like they did to proV1 or titanium drivers or graphite shafts - those were true innovations. It pros universally changes I’d believe more but it seems like marketing jive.

[@GolfSpyC]

With ProV1 (solid core balls), titanium/graphite, etc. the performance changes were so obvious to the masses that they had to adapt - The challenge with putters is that it's a slow science and even a significant benefit may appear small to most consumers. But don't tell that to Adam Scott, Rickie Fowler, Lucas Glover, Ben An, etc.

[@dpavs8158]

When it comes to the general market, golf companies main concern is not what performs well. They are primarily concerned with what sells well. It's about the money which is no big surprise, is it? IMO...Tom Kim is just the latest PGA self entitled, in denial brat. At least he proves that no one country has cornered the market when it comes to this type of athlete. Driver.... can't wait to see your results on the new Tour Edge 725's to see how they compare especially as a dollar to performance ratio!

[@oldred1959]

PseudoScience. Just practice more. Seriously though, there will be putters that suit your stroke style more than others, but you are delivering the club with a fixed grip and a consistent "shoulder rock" stroke, that putter ain't correcting the direction/angle of the face and pulling it against the force you are applying back to square. I could be convinced if they went on a putting robot similar to the driving robot at Loughborough University UK.

[@pedrogonzales4669]

I can't look down on a putt and see this weird looking putter. I don't even look at anything but blade putters

[@GolfSpyC]

To a degree, I get it. There will always be those who prefer form over function.

[@FretLevelMidnight]

Then buy a Link.1

[@pedrogonzales4669]

@FretLevelMidnight if they had it with a plumbers neck and with the shaft sitting where it's supposed to be

[@FretLevelMidnight]

@@pedrogonzales4669 I'm sorry, but factually the shaft is where it's supposed to be, the shaft placement is part of it being lie angle balanced properly, the same goes with not using a plumber's neck, this would negate the ability to lie angle balance the putter which is the entire point of L.A.B. putters.

[@nicknick6788]

I have people at my club that have 54 handicap. great for the team handicap except there's a minimum number of drives per player

[@GolfSpyC]

I'm still amazed that people with a 54 handicap are 1) willing to pay for the service and 2) keep track/enter scores

[@terryparkinson5473]

Scrambles suck

[@keithpanco]

With all the technological advances in putters, why have putting stats not improved?

[@GolfSpyC]

Which putting stats? Amateur? Professional?

[@jeffreyprice2982]

How do you quantify a subjective objective? The same putter in different hands will be judged differently because putting is an art. The greatest putters in history used putters that look nothing like today’s models. If people think that their new putter is great because they paid a fortune for it, then they will putt better.

[@GolfSpyC]

I get the confirmation bias angle, but I don't get how we can reasonably state that Tiger Woods, Loren Roberts, Steve Stricker, Brad Faxon...etc. used putters that "look nothing" like current models.....and lest we forget to mention Kathy Whitworth and Inbee Park!

[@stephenbell4937]

If you are going to do a video podcast format, spit the dip out of your mouth. I dip too but I wouldn’t do it in a business setting if I wanted to be taken seriously.

[@GolfSpyC]

Dear super judgy guy - I don't dip. Never have. And I certainly wouldn't presume that someone else does either.

[@ScratchArkkitehti]

Hands down LAB are the ugliest POS on the market.....looks matter.

[@Iamwrongbut]

How many strokes is looks worth?

[@jacobmccain8082]

I'm messing around with one right now. Made a lot of putts with it. And I've been a SC NP2 player for 15 years.

[@golfgearheads2655]

You must have never putted with one.

[@samhahn6950]

The ping Ancer arrived on the market as the ugliest POS that anyone had ever seen. The two ball arrived on the market as the ugliest POS that anyone had ever seen. The spider arrived on the market as the ugliest POS that anyone had ever seen. Looks are completely subjective. Just look at the clothing people were in the 1800s. Looks don’t actually matter. Results do. Results make things, beautiful or ugly!

[@GolfSpyC]

I guarantee you that the "looks matter" guy is leaving strokes on the table. Personally, I like the look of a smaller number on my scorecard.

[@owenhaugh5439]

When The Boys back in The day shot 59's, they all had none of this nonsense....It's just to Fool you all to buy more expensive equipment.....

[@GolfSpyC]

Here's a quick list of the year in which a 59 (or better) was shot on the PGA Tour. 1977, 1991, 1999, 2010, 2010, 1013, 2016, 2017, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2024 and 2024. What do you notice?

[@owenhaugh5439]

@@GolfSpyC That there aren't that many, and that's a good thing....and funny I really don't see to many of the newer putters (besides being sponsored by) played by The Pro's....and didn't I see in The Old Guys Tour, someone using a Bulls Eye???

[@mikec.2314]

PUUUUHHH - LEEEEESE. LAB putters still miss just fine. My 1986 PING Zing2 BeCu rolls it just fine thank you. Line and speed. ANY putter can accomplish this.