Zero Torque Putters: L.A.B DF3, PXG Allan & Evnroll Zero

[@richdouglas2311]

I've used the Bloodline stand-up putter for years. But in January, the procedure it enables--standing it up and then standing behind the putter to look down the line--is being banned by the USGA. The putter wasn't particularly forgiving, but the process was amazing for identifying the line. With that soon to be gone, I had to make a switch. I could go back to my previous putter (the highly adjustable Happy Putter), but I couldn't find the adjustment parts. So, I decided to game the Allan putter. Oh, man. It is the most accurate putter I've ever played. Sure, you can still pull it or push it. You can hit it on the heel or toe. And I no longer get the incredible advantage of standing behind the putter and seeing the line before lining it up. But this putter makes better contact on the line more often. It's not even close. I'm a pretty good putter, but this stick makes me even better. Because the Bloodline has a very high swing weight, I added heavier weights to my Allan when I had it fit. The fitting process was amazing. This was the best explanation of this phenomenon I've either watched or read. David should be congratulated for. that. I'm going to subscribe to the channel simply on the basis of this one video.

[@DavidDusek]

Sounds like you found your next putter just in time. Thanks for the compliments and I hope you enjoy the videos I have coming in the weeks ahead. TONS of putter content on the way as more brands jump into the zero-torque arena. - DD

[@stuarthillier2156]

Best video I have watched on explaining exactly what a zero-torque putter is 👍

[@DavidDusek]

Thanks a lot. I'm glad you liked it and that it helped to explain what this trend is all about. - DD

[@WalkerA92]

I buy and sell putters so I get the pleasure of using them often - LAB DF3 is my favorite by far.

[@kubyone1543]

I just got my PXG Allan and have 2 rounds on it so far; for me it’s been worth it. I’m still getting the feel, but I didn’t have a three putt in either round. It stays on my intended line so much better; it has made me feel more confident standing over the ball - which is what I want. No, it’s not for everyone; but it’s great for me.

[@DavidDusek]

It sounds like you've found a putter that works for you, and that's what's important. - DD

[@purepower333]

I agree I have the Allan and it’s been just ok, not the putters fault… I’m just used and rather keep a blade mallet putter… however the Allan definitely helps with making less putts. Just looks weird to me

[@pschilleru]

My first round with the Allan putter yesterday and had 9 one putts varying 4 to 20 feet! Love it - PXG has a winner.

[@Kylez1212]

I think a lot of people look at the prices wrong... these are so popular that if you don't like it you will get your money back on the second hand market. I have literally used every lab putter there is. I will buy one, use it for 3-6 months, sell it, get the next one. I have never received less than $50 of what I paid for the putter. It's a smart investment before the novelty wears off

[@kylemayer8486]

I told the guy when I bought mine a $450 putter that works makes sense when you have 5 $250 at home that you have minimal confidence in.

[@Kylez1212]

@kylemayer8486 lol exactly

[@daveconatty9940]

The LAB does not have any bias to any "face ballance" only to have zero torque, as you mentioned. The PXG and Evnroll do have a face bias albeit towards the target. There is a difference between the two styles is all

[@joeweiner7570]

Exactly, not the same tech or even concept. Lie angle balance is not the same as Zero Torque. Bending the shaft is how the other two brands handle lie angles, not the LAB. It handles it thru custom weight. The other two the head still rotates. LAB makes the best putters.

[@ItaliaJP400]

Fantastic video

[@DavidDusek]

Thanks, I’m glad you enjoyed it.

[@stephendibari5010]

Excellent breakdown. Best I’ve seen so far. One thing you left out with the DF3 is you have to keep the shaft aligned with the middle of your stance so the ball is closer to your left heel. A few months ago I was remotely custom fit with LAB for a DF3. The key is getting the correct lie angle. They responded quickly and recommended a 72° lie angle. I custom ordered mine at 72° , optional heavier head, counterbalanced set up, 36 inches with a 17 inch SS LAB grip. NN head marking. Best putter I’ve ever used and I’ve been playing over 30 years.

[@BigDawgCAM]

Literally THE EXACT SPECS I’m getting for my custom made DF3! Can’t wait to order one for Black Friday

[@stephendibari5010]

awesome. Being 5 ft 6 in. I choke down about 2 inches too get that counterbalanced feel. I know if I miss a putt it’s most likely wrong speed or line

[@jeff.schulze]

@@stephendibari5010 I am also 5' 6", I bought a new Spider in the spring. They (Golf Galaxy) recommended a 33 1/2 length putter during my fitting. You said you choke down 2 inches, do you wish you would have ordered a 34"? I'm confused that they recommended a 36 for a 5' 6" person. I would really like to try the Mezz.Max, and the PXG Allan. Sure hope the competition brings some of these prices down though.

[@stephendibari5010]

@@jeff.schulze when I used a “standard” length putter I was custom fit for 32-33 inches. I’m using it at 36 inches because I want to use it as an extended length/counterbalanced

[@stevegolfman2739]

I got a DF# in May 2024. It took me 5 made putts to ignore the look. Very solid strikes 99.9% of the time is a huge difference.

[@DavidDusek]

It a club works, golfers learn to love it regardless of the looks. - DD

[@clintonstumpf5210]

Perfect. Just what I needed to see cuz in the market for new putter. Of those three zero putters, what is worth it the most

[@DavidDusek]

It really comes down to which one feels and performs the best to you when you try it. - DD

[@kylemayer8486]

Not for everyone, but magic for me. I leave putts open naturally, and the evenroll erz has fixed that for me, instantly.

[@kenaone25]

Thanks for another great vid, David. Which of the 3 did you prefer?

[@douglastaylor43]

The prices are crazy on golf clubs.

[@cleveland2022]

Tried a LAB yesterday at Golf Galaxy. Very visually distracting. I am looking forward to trying Odyssey's square to square. I currently have the CH7 AI One putter and am very happy with it, but nothing to hurt trying the new one

[@DavidDusek]

Combining the Ai face insert with Versa alignment and zero torque makes for a potent combination on the greens. The Square 2 Square putters will feel VERY similar to your CH7.- DD

[@anthonyviola9400]

Excellent review , thanks! Do you favour one of the three you spoke about?

[@daviddeleon6267]

Which of the three putters did you like more?

[@davidvandenberg6955]

If you get a custom fit lab it’s going to cost a lot more than the 450 dollar stock model. I have a custom df3 it was 600 bucks love it worth every penny

[@EricCartmenez1]

David, could you maybe do some putting test with a lab vs a scotty cameron newport/np2? Would be good to hear your thoughts and see some results

[@derekcarday]

PXG Allen is going to take the golf world by storm.

[@DavidDusek]

I think the Allan is an excellent putter for a lot of golfers. - DD

[@ARTRODRIGUEZ-qj1dy]

I have the LAB putter but don't like the feel of it. Tried the Allan putter but they are restricted on their lie and angle before it affects the balance. They could not match the lie and angle I needed.

[@Nonfortiscedtenax]

me2. Lagging is sufffering with LABs

[@kennethyeong1251]

Thanks for the video! I have a straight back straight thru stroke.....does it help me square the face better? Thanks

[@DavidDusek]

The benefits should happen regardless of your stroke type, so yes, it could help. - DD

[@toddkirch613]

I have the Allen Putter. I notice I am online a lot more. Just trying to get used to the speed coming from a blade putter.

[@DavidDusek]

I find the PXG pyramid face insert slower and softer than the milled faces I’m used to playing. - DD

[@sss4me530]

when are evnroll making left handed zero putters?

[@louisandemilylafache9415]

Would using an oversized grip affect the intended stroke of these putters?

[@DavidDusek]

Most of these putters come with an oversized (or at least a large) grip. Talk to your fitter about using different grips on these because the built-in forward press could make some grips not work. - DD

[@orlandogolfguruogg5382]

Would love to see you put one of these against your blade gamer. Perhaps once you get used to something - maybe either will work the same?

[@usa67us]

whats a good cheap putter?

[@markblowers8387]

How much can a putter realistically open though when in the palms of the hands applying force to the grip ? The explainer is basing it completely off zero hand pressure on grip.

[@DavidDusek]

You bring up a great point about how much the face of a golfer's putter really opens or rotates during a stroke. Everyone is different, so the amount will vary, but consider this: From 8 feet out on a straight putt, if your putter's face is more than 1 degree off from square at impact, the ball will miss the hole. From 15' away on a straight putt, the face can't be more than 0.5 degrees off from being square at impact. So ... it doesn't need to be off by much, whether that's from hand pressure or anything else. - DD

[@BigBrainGolf]

Can you clarify… will all 3 putters stay in any position you hold them (when parallel to the ground, as in the first 2 minutes), or only the lab? Will the others rotate to have the toe up?

[@DavidDusek]

If you balance any of the three putters the way I did at the beginning of the video, all three will balance so that the toe goes up and the face points toward your target. They should also stay square to your stroke's path as long as you don't twist them yourself using your hands or wrists. Their balance does not encourage them to rotate by themselves. - DD

[@BigBrainGolf]

​@DavidDusek I watched the pxg Allen video afterwards and the guy talks about "returning to home" (toe up), which means, torque. The lab doesn't have any torque so it will remain in any position when parallel to the ground (which is also shown in the pxg video) I think the pxg video makes a stronger case for lab than the lab video does

[@BigBrainGolf]

@ the lab will not go toe up though, if you put it toe down or sideways it’ll stay that way because it has no torque. The others will rotate on their own to be toe up. At least that’s what was said in the pxg video 🤷‍♂️

[@samhahn6950]

@@BigBrainGolf the Pxg video was incorrect in their assertion that ours has no bias. It’s not a CG putter. It just doesn’t torque so hard that it shuts on the way through impact is all.

[@randallpennington5976]

I want one because I constantly try to over control the face of the putter!

[@aarondrossart6026]

I'm moving towards honu putters I think

[@DavidDusek]

Bamboo and brass is an interesting combination. - DD

[@aarondrossart6026]

​@@DavidDusekI lied, I just picked up a df3. Lol

[@donsmnc5319]

The lab certainly seems and has been tested showing to perform slightly better than the other 2 however depending on the skill of the user they can all make putts

[@justinmorales952]

Haha! Where did you obtain this info? The enroll isn’t even available yet…

[@Tomdabomb86]

Love the videos David put would have to disagree about the price point u make, yes there are expensive buy so are new drivers and there out every 2years and are nearly the all the same. 450 for a putter is alot but for a club u could play for 10+ years its a great investment and let's be honest the people that will buy this putter will probably have 5 or 6 putters aleady😂 but on a personal not iv really grown to love the look of the LAB and there videos on YT and very good. Keep up the good work David

[@purepower333]

I got the Allan, and it really hasn’t done anything for me, I know I suck however my putting hasn’t changed still 2-3 putt no matter what I use

[@DavidDusek]

Without knowing anything about your or your game, I'd suggest concentrating on improving your distance control. Most golfers don't mis-read putts by more than a foot, but leaving a 20-foot putt five or six feet short can lead to 3-putts. - DD

[@purepower333]

@@DavidDusekthank you, will work on that

[@timmiles5205]

No Edel putter.? Edel made this more prominent.

[@evacox-fm7ze]

Surely the point of insert of the shaft can also cause even balance without complicated science or ugly design😊

[@aidenhooson1320]

Can’t see the PXG enough in this video we don’t want to look at that bottle opener

[@silasvansky5231]

These putters are not comparable at all. The LAB's are designed to have no torque bias at all, and the other 2 are designed to have "toe-up" bias. PXG and Evnroll are misleading people by calling them zero torque.

[@gregcarnall9097]

Nothing saves you from a push or a pull, its still up to the golfer to return the putter square at impact. Im still dubious as you dont see many pros using these.

[@rrberendes]

@@gregcarnall9097 agree with you. Good putters on tour don’t play these kind of putters.

[@ServiceCrew_]

How many players on tour are signed to lab or pxg? They all have deals with Taylormade Callaway etc

[@starks1974]

Pros play with their contractual equipment, some have to use all. So if you see a player with a LAB, they paid for it out of their own pocket, or they were permitted to per their contract. If you are basing your analysis on what pros use these and is not a good metric.

[@kyleericson9777]

Rickie Fowler was using a LAB this weekend … I believe he finished 4th …

[@sumitagg1]

Odyssey released toe up putters 8 year’s ago and they failed to get pros to use them.

[@larrythomson3967]

It's always wonderful to watch these videos where the person making them has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Zero Torque doesn't mean the face doesn't open and close during the swing, and if you had actually looked at your own video you would have seen that ALL the putters opened and closed. Zero Torque means that if you hit the putter towards the toe or heel the putter will remain more stable and resist twisting.

[@tezzlacoilz]

That might be the definition of zero torque in physics, but it isn't what the manufacturers mean. When the manufacturers of these putters say zero torque they dont mean high Moi ie resistance to twisting at impact. Their definition of zero torque refers to the face staying square to the lie angle path if it isn't manipulated. This is pre-impact. It has nothing to do with resisting twisting at impact. So the author of this video is technically correctly explaining what the manufacturers are looking to achieve with these putters.

[@tezzlacoilz]

And no - these putters or at least the LAB putters do not open and shut *relative* to the lie angle swing path. They will stay square *to the lie angle swing path* (not the target) the whole way thru if they are not manipulated. Whereas toe balance or face balanced putters will open and shut in an extreme manner and in different ways on the back swing and then again on the thru stroke when not manipulated as they go along the lie angle swing path

[@DavidDusek]

I think what makes this concept challenging is that while the face of a zero-torque putter remains square to the path on the backswing, looking from above, it appears to be open in relation to the target line a player establishes at address. We can't putt with a club that has a 90-degree lie angle, which could allow golfers to keep the face square to both the path AND the target line, but a less-than-90-degree lie angle means there will be some arc, and that means there will be the appearance of an open face in relation to the target line. - DD

[@larrythomson3967]

@@tezzlacoilz You have hit the nail on the head when you said "it's not what the manufacturer meant". Manufacturers want to sell their product so will tell us what they think we want to hear regardless of whether it's true of not. No matter what type of putter head or weighting of that head, with a 78 degree putter shaft angle (optimal putter shaft angle) it is IMPOSSIBLE to take it back and through square unless you "manipulate" it to break the laws of physics. I am not trying to knock the putter, I am simply sick of manufacturers spewing out bullshit and youtubers buying into it.

[@tezzlacoilz]

@larrythomson3967 I understand what you are trying to say mate but you are misunderstanding it totally. They aren't saying the putter will stay *square to the target* . Everyone swings in an arc whether its driver irons or putter, due to our anatomy and lie angle, so the putter only is square to the target at impact. What they are saying is it will stay square to the *swing path* (not the target) the whole time, and that swing path is dictated by the lie angle of the putter. Eg a 69° lie angle will have a more pronounced arc than a 79° lie angle, which will be less pronounced as the putter is more upright. With a LAB putter, all the way thru the arc of the swing the putter will stay square *to the arc* if you don't manipulate it. Whereas your conventional putter, for example a face balanced putter, is balanced only when pointing to the sky, *not when it is at address* . So naturally when you swing it on its lie angle determined swing path it will open and close and spin around as it is not balanced to that path, *it is balanced when pointing up at the sky* . So the player has to instinctively manipulate the club and try to hold the face steady on the arc so they can bring it back square at impact, and this theoretically leads to more inconsistency. These putters are not a magic bullet, you can still manipulate them as you swing, you aren't going to buy one and suddenly putt like Cameron smith - but the technology works and is proven and you are going to see these types of putters take over at tour level in the next 10 years, and every single manufacturer will produce them.

[@skyemac8]

And off centre hits? Forgiveness is prime. We all don’t leave a grooved ball mark like Tiger Woods.

[@rrberendes]

For me the LAB DF3 is too ugly to put in the bag. Hopefully Scotty Cameron release something similar in the future. In the end Scotty and Odyssey remain on top of the market.

[@paulmcgee1867]

LAB doesn’t just have one model

[@xxthadeucexx]

So how many strokes is "good looking" worth?

[@PauloG100]

I am sorry but when I read comments like this I laugh. If it was legal I would use a house brick on the end of a stick if it gave the best results.

[@PH-kp7qx]

Oh really, they remain on the top of the market? Why is that, because you say? Probably can’t even break 100 but your an expert on putters 🤣

[@frankcastle1578]

Yes because what’s important in order to be a better golfer is the look of the clubs 🤡

[@wahlvisiongolf]

The only real zero torque is the LAB, pxg and Evnroll isn't really zero torque.

[@rickhammel9541]

not sure I'm buying this. The amount of torque created on a putter stroke is negligible. You swing a 5 iron at 95 miles an hour and keep the face square, and that's way more torque created.

[@xxthadeucexx]

You don't understand putting and full swings. Full swings have WAY more face rotation than a putting stroke. You don't keep the face square, you time the rotation so it's square at impact. This is why it's much harder to hit a straight 5 iron than it is to hit a straight putt. The other part is the target size. Irons are hit to greens that are yards wide and putts are hit to a target 4.25" wide. If you have the face open/closed by 1 degree on a 10 foot putt, you could miss it. There is no "shot shape" on a putt to compensate for swing flaws.

[@socalgolf9978]

If you can’t read the green or put a good stroke on it none will help

[@DavidDusek]

No one is arguing with you on that. To make a putt you need to judge the break, then match the speed to your read, and then make a stroke that creates the roll and speed you need. These putters don’t make you a better green reader. With experience and practice your distance control can improve. These putters work to make your stroke more consistent, the third part of the equation. - DD

[@zombierecon7351]

Nothing square about that stroke. Cut city…..thought these putters were supposed to help that. Seems like they encourage it.

[@DavidDusek]

One of the zero torque putters claim to change your stroke. They are designed to keep the face square to your stroke’s path, whether that’s a strong arc, a slight arc or a straighter stroke. - DD

[@jamesstevens1972-q2v]

The only thing these putters do is put a hole in your wallet!

[@emiliopelaez607]

😂👍🏼

[@nathaniverson6828]

Oh yeah a 600-1k$ driver that I use 12 holes and buy annually is a screaming deal

[@lincolnprojectnemesis3253]

Yup...folks that have disposable cash to chuck at buying a game are like gamblers. Once they blow a wad of money, they will tell you just how valuable and worthwhile it is and always a win. Golfers are gullible, I'll give us that!

[@jott1717]

Get bigger pockets

[@GoldArtAI4K]

​@@jott1717 I will send you my bank details and you can put $10,000 in it please.

[@alankasjan6488]

If any of these putters save you a stroke in a game, it is only because you believe it is helping (it's all in the mind), not because these putters are magical.

[@Notyou69420]

Is every youtube golf “guru” going to get on this train?😂🤣😂🤣way to think outside the box with original content 😂😂

[@AllGenerationGolf]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIHcgpSYqamXibMsi=lnkYLD7OqfR6gr56 Add a par 3 Tee to EVERY hole!? Watch why. Bob Vokey will love this. All Generation Golf

[@raginrasta9667]

Meanwhile my df3 armlock with tpt and custom engraving was over 1k 🫣