Myth Busting the .308 Winchester

Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors. In this episode, Joseph Von Benedikt sets out to bust some myths about the 308 Winchester and determine facts from fiction about this cartridge.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@Benroe-yz1nz]

My friend summed it up when I was looking for an f class rifle. Other calibers will get you there maybe faster, more comfortably, but the 308 is like an old pickup truck. It will get you there and last forever when the others are worn out.

[@nsob8897]

Like your old 1993 F150...might be covered in rust but laughs off being killed with a lack of oil, crashes, jumping snow banks, hell rides...trees fleas and jamborees. Seen them all and still standing tall. I'm not a big .308 guy but I can still understand that it's worth keeping around. I think it makes an awesome machine gun round though. Man those guns are wicked.

[@bobjohnson9012]

Amen

[@josephharris2718]

If you want a great old caliber that is older and superior to the anemic .308 Winchester then get a .30.06.

[@Benroe-yz1nz]

@@josephharris2718 I have multiples in both calibers and enjoy all of them.

[@georgesch4928]

Well all things said. I hunt white tails inside of 200 yards. I will keep my Remington 788 in 308 I enjoyed your vid great info. 👍👍👍308

[@ianservice3609]

In Australia I’ve been using one for 35 years and love it. My hunting is deer and pigs at ranges from 40 to 300 yards . Had two shots ranged at 400 in all that time. For what I do it is very hard to beat, short action light rifle and hits hard. Had no reason to change.

[@Alan.livingston]

Agreed. It’s a great cartridge for the game and ranges we’re likely to encounter, it’s inexpensive, and there is a million rifles on the market. It looks me like the whole movement to dump on the .308 is driven by the current trend toward the long range hunting and target shooting out of the US. The manufacturers love it because they get to flog a bunch of expensive gear and people talk about it endlessly on the internet. In this country’s at least it would represent a tiny fraction of actual shooters who would still do most of their work short of the 300y mark.

[@evilmac9623]

@@Alan.livingston I would say the majority is under 200 yrds to be honest. I know in the north east 75 yrds is out of scope in the woods in most places. But you hit it on the head, a lot of this is to just get people to buy new rifles chambered in new rounds. I am old enough to remember when WSM (winchester short magnums) came out and every gun magazine and guru was pushing people to buy those, now its 6.5s and no one is even talking about WSMs. I stuck with my .308 then, and I am going to stick with it now. I have had no problem taking moose, bear or deer.

[@TheBowhunterinNB]

Canadian east coast , .308 is very popular. Moose black bear and whitetail. 300m would be a long shoot in our woods . So it serves my grandfather , father, myself and sons quite well .

[@hammerheadms]

I'm here in Michigan, and we have a lot of forests that are 2nd generation growth, so the tree tend to be, on average narrower and more dense. Unless we hunt in some of our national forest preserves we seldom get more than 100 yards shots. .308 is great for just about any game over here.

[@johnanon3081]

Exactly. People need to consider their shooting positions too. Not many places in the Northeast where you can shoot prone or off a backpack like out West. I've never seen anyone in the Northeast use shooting sticks either. Therefore, you're basically shooting off-hand or at best using a tree or tree limb for support. .308 is arguably an ideal cartridge where you can shoot 130 to 180 grains under 350 yards.

[@scotthyde6557]

308 suits Hunting in Oklahoma !! Hogs and 200 plus White tails, Typically at less than 200 yds are probably at 95% of hunting incounters

[@HondoTrailside]

When they talk about the need to hit animals at 400 plus, across canyons, I think we are talking about guide's need to get good reviews online. The guides can shoot, and today they can provide a firing solution, and expert recovery. Meanwhile, out west, there are a lot of bowhunters working on a 16-20 yard shot cap, taking huge deer every year. It takes real expertise even to find the beginning of a bloodtrail at almost any distance, including some bow shots. The idea that there are newbies out there making half mile shots, hitting animals with high BC bullets that have poor terminal performance design, designed around proper function at who knows what range, is not encouraging.

[@hammerheadms]

@@HondoTrailside there so many factors to consider when taking a shot at any given range. So many ways to lose or wound an animal if you are taking reckless shots. I agree with you. I really can't fathom anything beyond a 200 yard shot, at least where I hunt because it's just not open country. But, that said, in open country, 400+ yards, if you aren't accurately judging range, and calculating wind you could wind up with an awfully cruel kill, in my estimation. And I routinely see videos where people are shooting at animals 600 yards or more. That sounds pretty cookey to me, but I also don't have long range shooting experience. I guess if someone with far more advanced shooting skills than me can pull it off humanely, then who am I to judge. I am far more comfortable trying to thread my shots through keyholes make a clean kill on a whitetail than trying to push the limits of how far my eyes can see.

[@freman007]

I have a Savage 99 in 308. A good little rifle. The 308 isn't the best round at anything, but it's a good round for everything. It's also a common round, and consequently pretty cheap.

[@brianalbrecht4423]

well said....a versitale round for the avarge man....!..agree 100%...!..

[@EdAb]

Ron knows where the money is! Post a video on 308 Winchester and TEN GAZZILION people will watch!!! Nothing draws a crowd like 308! BTW, Joseph, I love Ron, but you're pretty great too! 😉

[@MrRufusjax]

He is really good. Almost as good as Ron. Almost.....

[@marshallmaez4770]

He's a dork who likes to hear himself pontificate rubbish. Mixes up western hunting needs with target. Comes from the generation of shooters that disrespectful shoot and wound game at hero ranges instead of stalk. These are non hunters that love the latest and greatest market of calibers. They will chase that rainbow and babble all their lives. Yup, lots of good calibers out there, I get it. Rifles and calibers are tools when used responsibly and with practicality. Hunt and shoot but there is a difference.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

​@@marshallmaez4770I don't think he promotes wounding animals, but otherwise, I agree with your statement.

[@735Secure]

Follow the money… much of what he said is true but there’re much worse choices that people can and do make. But also if he advocated some of the old and consistent guns and rounds, which gun or ammo mfg will sponsor his videos when market already is saturated with the old caliber guns and probably ammo? So always it’s about shinier and better things because that’s the only way mfgs make their money and most of us are just brainwashed that way.

[@johnmollet2637]

Nice job Joseph. While it's not my preferred cartridge for anything, I know a lot of people who have used it very effectively for decades. The secret is to know it's limitations.

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

that really is the secret to most things. wise words.

[@ronlongwellphoto]

Yes, all cartridges are utterly fantastic “within their comfort zone,” and less so outside of that comfort zone.

[@justinriley8651]

it's great on 2 legged varmints that's what I care about. I'm not hungry and that elk ain't done anything to me.

[@omf2007]

"A mans got to know his limitations. "

[@stephenparchewski1998]

Very true. As with any cartridge, know it’s limitations. It has a lot of thump within 300 yard with very little recoil.

[@joeanita8654]

I love the fact that you can bring down big game for a buck and a half for a round with .308, 7.62X51. And target practice for a dollar a round.

[@randocrypto1678]

That is true. However I’ve noticed that 30-06 is often the same price for a more powerful round. I am biased though as a 30-06 owner :)

[@jimmieburleigh9549]

Hard to honestly beat a reminington corlokt for anything 300 yards and under for less than a dollar.

[@guyontheinternet8891]

@@randocrypto1678 I'm not sure about that. Most 30-06 stuff on the shelves is hunting or match ammo, not cheap full metal jacket plinking stuff. If you want that you usually have to order it online which there is usually shipping to so you aren't saving that much money. Unlike 308 firearms, which can plink with 7.62x51 for half the price per box and it is sitting on shelves so I don't have to order it.

[@geraldb4201]

@@randocrypto1678 i have both the 308 and the 30-06 and out to 350 yards hate to say it but the 308 is really close to the 06 with lots less recoil

[@scottstruif3939]

@@jimmieburleigh9549especially when it costs $1.50

[@jaydunbar7538]

308 is a marvelous sniper cartridge, the misconception is that people think snipers are out there shooting enemies at 1000m all the time when in fact it’s very rare and most sniper encounters are sub 200m well within the effective range of the cartridge. Go check out Nicholas Irving, he goes over why he used 308 and is known as “the reaper”. If I recall correctly most of his kills were under 100m. Swat is the same way, much shorter distances then people assume frequently simply shooting across a road, rarely at any meaningful distance.

[@haroldfarquad6886]

This same logic applies even for hunting with 308 in the eastern third of the US. For the western US, sure, something than can reach out is warranted, but east of the Mississippi, you're going to find so many hills and trees that trying to get a shot off longer than 600 yards is just not likely, especially considering the only targets would be deer and maybe black bears. 308 is plenty sufficient for the real world scenarios encountered by LEO snipers and hunters in the woods, hills, and mountains of the east. It's a supremely practical cartridge for these reasons, even if it's not the 'best' at any single role.

[@therdubya]

Nicholas Irvine is a hack, who really doesn't know anything. Go watch his video were he stated a 50 bmg can miss someone and still rip their leg off going by them without making impact.... Military shooters aren't anywhere near as knowledgeable and practiced as some of the heavy user, frequent shooting civilians. Source: former Marine, who's shot a hell of a lot more as a civilian as I ever did as an infantry Marine.

[@semperanticusphotography3749]

Good synopsis of the .308. I think one reason it has well-deserved popularity is that it is a good answer to many questions while not really being the best answer to anything. For specialized applications, there are dozens of other rounds that are better by particular situation, but If I don't know exactly what I'm going to find, a .308 will normally do the job.

[@cavscout888]

On the military side, it was actually really poorly done. Not sure if he was just trying to make a point and took it too far, or just wrong. Makes me worried about the rest of his info as also just being gunshop fudd lore.

[@semperanticusphotography3749]

I get you. Considering this channel focuses on hunting rather than other pursuits, I give some leeway. In the hunting world where the plan is to use the least amount of ammo possible in a year, I think it is easier to nitpick. I mean, I don't recall seeing bulk sales of .416 or even .300 WinMag but those aren't really multi-purpose rounds.@@cavscout888

[@diggernash1]

I bought a new .308 this year. A Howa Super Lite. I have been impressed; accurate and well under 5 pounds bare and under 6 pounds ready to hunt. I'm reloading 130 Barnes TTSXs at around 3100 fps

[@Benroe-yz1nz]

I'm shooting laser beams with that bullet up to 300yds out of my 308 & 30-06. Perfect in the southeast

[@diggernash1]

@@Benroe-yz1nz They are shooting great for me as well. I'm also loading 125 grain Accubonds, which I shot for several years out of my A bolt. Lighter bullets have great performance with less recoil; which I believe leads to tighter groups.

[@Benroe-yz1nz]

@@diggernash1 I need to try some of those accubonds. I do love a bonded bullet

[@diggernash1]

@Benroe-yz1nz Varget is the easy button, but there's more velocity to be had with TAC. I like Varget; I start at 47 grains with 125s and 130s, then work up. Seems there's always an accurate charge before I get to 49; or with this new rifle, every load between 48 and 49 was accurate enough...lol.

[@Benroe-yz1nz]

@diggernash1 Varget is my go to powder in 308 and 223. I tried a pound of tac and wasn't satisfied with the accuracy I was getting at all. I forget if I loaded my last batch with 46.5 or 47 with the 130 ttsx but I do remember being very pleased with the accuracy results.

[@harryspeakup8452]

Great technical discussion. In addition to the points made, I think the versatility of .308 / 7.62 NATO combined with the extremely widespread availability make it a very useful round

[@homeinthewhiteoaks]

I agree with everything you said. From a Western hunters perspective the 308 is not enough gun. But for the Eastern woods where Deer and Black bear are taken inside 100 yards more often than not, and seeing game at 200 yards is rare due to dense cover, the 308 is right at home. A lot of us now hunt from bow stands, and box blinds that are set up for close encounters with eastern game. Adding recoil, expense and longer barrels is a detriment to us. To a hunter up in a tree a light 20”308 is a perfect balance of killing power out to any distance you can freehand a rifle. And in a tight box blind on the edge of a food plot that same rifle comes out the window quickly and has all the thump any whitetail can handle. The 308win what the 30-30 was for our grandfather’s generation. The perfect woods gun. My 26” 300mag never makes it out of the safe unless I’m playing with paper targets at the bench!

[@hammerheadms]

I live in Michigan, and that's pretty much on point with how we hunt. I have a few hunting rifles, but my favorite is my Winchester M70 in 7mm-08. It's all the power I will ever need hunting in these woods for all medium to large game. That said, .308 is completely interchangeable in this scenario. I know plenty of guys who hunt with it, and it has never left anyone wanting. My .300WM and .270Win don't really see as much action, save for being used as a backup, or just to change things up for the fun of it. Who really wants blow themselves off their seat when trying to make an awkward shot with your non dominant hand (been there before)?

[@marcmoore4115]

My 26" .308 has taken quite a lot of Gemsbok at 300-350m and one out to 370m and it's 'killing power' is great - but exactly as mentioned in the video, calling wind can be difficult. If you hit the mark it's dead just as fast as at 100m, but it certainly requires practice to go out to that distance.

[@upscaleshack]

There's a whole lot of diverse terrain in the western US. Pretty hard to say the 308 is inadequate for most of it. I've used it very effectively for pronghorn in Montana, blacktails in Oregon, and elk and even bison in South Dakota. Unless you're talking about Kodiak bears there's not much in the west that it can't do. The majority of all game are taken at 100 yards or less, regardless of location. The myth of 1000 yard shots in the west is pretty silly. I've also used the 308 on African plains game in Namibia to great effect.

[@Ovokor]

I have been public lands hunting in the west for 18 years and I have met 2 people who could ethically kill an animal at 500 yards. My observation is often when you take a shooter and give them a rifle with too much recoil like a 300 win mag they develop a flinch which adds 2-3 moa to their groups and that often makes it unethical to take a shot farther than 200 yards. I think saying 308 is bad because cartridge peters out too much at 700 is true but realistically the number of people who can fully use a mag cartridge ethically at range is close to .001% of the shooters out there. Most people are outclassed by gun not other way around. I think the 6.5 PRC, 308 and 6.5 creed is the perfect blend of lethality and recoil. Most shooters have no business trying to take game beyond 300 yards.

[@longbow1493]

I live and hunt in east Texas, the 308 is a favorite of mine, but almost 100% of my shots are not long range. I also like the 300 WinMag, it does hit like a hammer. The 308 is like an old friend coming to visit, lots of good memories are shared.

[@glennlambert2334]

Nailed it - one must recognise a cartridge's limitations wrt what and where one is hunting. I've been shooting the 7.62 NATO since I was 15 years old out of the South African R1 battle rifle (licenced copy of the FN FAL) and an FN FAL folding stock rifle when I served my compulsory military service in the Parachute Battalion. It was here that I really fell in love with the cartridge, so much so that I purchased a mint condition FN FAL for 3 Gun later in life! As most of my hunting would be in the Southern African bushveld with reasonable shooting distances no more than 200 to 250 metres / yards at best at game such as warthog, bushpig (wild boar size), impala (slightly smaller than whitetail) and even larger elk / caribou-sized game like kudu and gemsbok, I decided on a Remington 700 stainless DM with a rifle twist of 1:10 using 180gr Remington soft point CoreLokt. These rounds are a great match to the rifle and I regularly get well under 1/2" groups at 100m / 110 yards off a rickety bench; and that bullet weight they're fine for kudu and gemsbok at 250 metres max. I must add at bushveld ranges and with the 180gr soft points, the effect on all game is devastating. I have succesfully hunted a few springbok (roughly pronghorn sized antelope) out at around 350 metres (close on 400 yards) with the 308 / 180gr combination but I recognised the soft nose trajectory was more than challenging and ethical shots were a potential issue. For that sort of plain's game shooting I bought a Remington 700 in 270 Win and with 130gr CoreLokt rounds it does the trick. As you allude to, at bushveld hunting distances, there is not much to choose between the 308 and the 30-06 and the game can't tell the difference when hit.

[@TjBruce817]

If you have the money to buy a tool for every job then congratulations. If you are trying to fulfill a lot of roles with as few as one gun, then you probably can't go wrong with the 308 and the vast range of cartridges you could choose for the job you need done.

[@chriswimberly8060]

I have 3 rifles I use to hunt with. 22-250 for varmints, 243 I built for whitetail doe season, and my 308 for buck season i.e the rut and I've killed all three animals with all 3 guns but For hunting a bug buck I fall back on my 308 and I've killed a lot of animals with that rifle. Just saying

[@bobjohnson9012]

Amen

[@winstonjones7519]

That's right.

[@whiteyfisk9769]

If you want a do it all caliber, the 7 rem mag, 300 win mag, 3006, hell even the 270 fills that role much much better than the 308

[@winstonjones7519]

I really enjoy the .308 Win. But I completely agree with your choices as better. @@whiteyfisk9769

[@WallyMerc06]

regardless of its drawbacks...it's still a fantastic cartridge for killing game

[@raymondjensen4603]

What drawbacks..., six hundred yards? Really? that is a drawback? A 400-to-500-yard shot is affected by factors outside the ability of the rifle and skill of the hunter. This is the purview of those who life centers around long distance shooting, not us (in Ron's own words). If your only rifle is a 308 you are well equipped for most hunting. The reason the military went to the smaller caliber with the M16 was it was too big for automatic fire, not because it wasn't an effective round.

[@anthonykaiser974]

It's a great round as long as you use the right ammo and observe the Dirty Harry "Magnum Force" rule.

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

perfectly adequate. nothing wrong with that, just not much of a stand out at anything.

[@shanedarden5238]

​@@sinisterthoughts2896 except great accuracy

[@hammerheadms]

Unless you are hunting in the heartland, there really aren't so many drawbacks. Here in Michigan, it's VERY popular. On average I'd say 85-90% of shots taken on game here are easily inside of 200 yards. And that's on deer, elk, and black bear. Even the occasional moose, I hear. A lot of hunters do tend to "gun-up" with calibers that offer more punch, but I know a few old hunters that swear by their .308.

[@reloadnorth7722]

I have used the 308/7.62x51 for over 40+years. Trained in the CDN infantry on the FNC1-C2. Purchased a bolt 308 when I was still in the service. I only hunt moose and have never lost or wounded anything. Max 2 shot kills. Highly underrated, but do NOT put pills heavier than 168gr. I reload using Varget or IMR4895, any brass, Federal magnum primers, and mostly 165/168 bullets. I leave the 180gr bullets for my Parker Hale 300 Win Mag.

[@Vikingocazar]

My FN was 1L1627… I was seventeen… good times!!

[@TheBowhunterinNB]

My father also trained in the CND on the FN and purchased himself a bolt gun in .308 . He took moose and whitetail and now I do as well : never had a bull complain about it being under powered

[@HeartOfTheHorses]

I started my 12 year old son with a 30-30 & he water my 308, so I thought, let him take one shot & he won’t want to shoot it again, but I was wrong. He ended up shooting that for years. He was a sharp shooter in the USAF, 2 time Airman of the year. Now my 13 year old grandson just bought his first 308. I’m so proud of my son & grandsons an the shooters they’ve become. Thank You for a great educational video. Have an amazingly Blessed Week 🤠🇺🇸

[@USAACbrat]

I shot my first 308 in 1954, a schoolmate and i borrowed his father's brand new un fired pair of Winchester model 70 feather weight. they were in 225 Winchester and 308. When his father questioned me he asked about 308 recoil, snappy compared to the M-1 Carbine i usually shot.

[@whoshotashleybabbitt4924]

Has Ron been time travelling? He looks younger today.

[@boksteve]

Thanks Joseph! I had been hunting whitetail since my 20's with a .30-06. Max range for me was 200 yards because of the terrain I hunt. Great gun but as I aged, I got tired of getting sledgehammered with recoil. Loving the .30 cal versatility and availability, the .308 just made sense for my purposes - I regularly use it in its comfort zone and it works great. All that to say as a happy fan of the caliber, I appreciated your fair analysis. It was helpful to know the limitations.

[@skeeterdavis5777]

There's not much difference in the 30-06 and 308 on recoil. 17ft pds vs 20ft pds

[@stevenlewis6781]

I spent a considerable amount of time trying to decide what cartridge to use for a quality AR-10 and a good bolt action. I have many rifles in many calibers, but I wanted to get these two and start stockpiling ammunition. After all but deciding on the 6.5 Creedmoor, did an about face and got a Begara HMR Wilderness and a POF Revolution DI in 308. Both are wonderfully accurate. I just came to the conclusion that these two rifles in 308 are perfectly capable of doing 90% of everything I need. Norma Tactical and Golden Target are incredibly accurate in both rifles, and I’ve been putting quite a bit on the shelf.

[@alanmeyers3957]

Sounds like an about face just in time!

[@user-rs8up2ye7k]

What about the .300 Winmag?

[@mr.mr.3301]

Less recoil, short action, ammo everywhere and the best priced of them all. No it’s not the best. But the best for most folks it is.

[@Simon-talks]

the best blend of all real world attributes. All knocks agains it are pie in the sky nonsense

[@Ruger44Redhawk]

I think you're pretty much set with a .22, .308 and 12ga if SHTF (which it will in this anti-White country). South Africa will inevitably happen here.

[@th3unmaker]

The .308 is the most well rounded cartridge imo. Big enough to hunt almost anything, within 500 yards, but smaller than the 30.06, for packing more rounds in a given space. It's a highly effective battle cartridge as well. And, it is one of those rounds you can find anywhere. It may not be an ace at any given task, but it comes close to perfect in almost all scenarios. Long range and very big game hunting being the exceptions.

[@chrisdarcy8998]

I'm a big 308 Win fan and I didn't once think, "oh, you hater." Horses for courses, ya don't buy a 'vette if you need to pull a 10000 lb trailer. I wrote something like this in another comment, cartridges come and go, but the 308 Win will be in common use for many years to come, it's really good at a lot of things. Great vid, put together honestly and accurately.

[@smacfe]

Excellent video. Go back and count the number of times you said “1000 yards” in this review. The almost insignificant proportion of shots taken at 1000 yards doesn’t warrant trashing the .308 to the extent it gets bad mouthed. The overwhelming majority of use in hunting is for deer and hog hunting at very modest ranges and for that it is an outstanding choice. You make it sound like folks are all dropping elk by the dozens. That is simply not the case, with elk tags getting harder and harder to get in most areas; so elk rounds are really more of a specialty round (and would be a great video too). I understand that there is pessure from manufacturers to sell multiple guns in as many different calibers possible, so it is easy to overlook the importance of choosing a caliber that suits the majority of your shooting.

[@johnanon3081]

Well said.

[@jacktrout5807]

Bingo

[@jacktrout5807]

@@ClickOnProfile203 I have a gift for v your mom!

[@Alan.livingston]

I think the whole obsession with long range is being driven by the industry and appeals to a small but loyal group of shooters with the disposable income for that sort of pursuit.

[@alanmeyers3957]

As if it’s not good enough for elk.

[@andrewspringer3565]

I feel safe in all woods with my .308 even in Alaska.

[@OutsidetheEchochamber]

💯

[@patrickgallagher4344]

Let’s get ready to run down the 308 again! Curtesy of Ron Spomer lol 😂

[@anthonykaiser974]

Let's whine because Ron Spomer's YT channel tells an inconvenient truth.

[@jfess1911]

I actually watched the video. He didn't "run down" the 308. He gave a realistic view of its strength and weaknesses. It is a fine hunting cartridge, but not the best for 500+ yard shots on large game or for big, dangerous game.

[@patrickgallagher4344]

@@anthonykaiser974watch his other videos! No one’s whining! If it would not be for the 308 case he wouldn’t have his favorite 708 cartridge so you can piss off and have a nice day

[@anthonykaiser974]

@@patrickgallagher4344 no, you're whining.

[@carlmarks6145]

Valid points! Enjoyable video. In my humble opinion, the right cartridge/bullet always depends on the shooter and its intended use, and as long as it is legal in the jurisdiction where you intend to use it. For example, hunting with so-called "knock down stopping power" can never replace well placed bullets in vitals to maximize hemorrhaging and blood loss. My cousin took a 32-point eastern bull moose in Newfoundland with 57 inch spread near Gros Morne National Park with an older Savage 110 (non-accutrigger, wooden stock, open sights and bushnell riflescope with a over/under seethru riflescope mount) chambered in .270 Winchester using a 150-grain bullet with a well placed shot to the lungs. I have also seen many new shooters take high-powered rifles and punish animals because they think "knock down power" of a .338 Magnum is needed for moose, yet they can not shoot it well. Unfortunately, too many hunters make this mistake! So, thinking you need large caliber rifles is also a myth. First rule of shooting, know your rifle and shoot it well. Second rule, practice, practice, practice!!! Third rule: Be patient and wait an extra second to make an ethical shot in the vitals. I have used lever action rifles chambered in .308 Winchester in the past, I enjoy shooting .308. I have also utilized a Browning bolt action rifle chambered in 7mm Rem Mag many times, but my favorite two are the 280 AI and 350 Whelan. So after all that, be true to yourself and your abilities, hunt honest and shoot straight with a rifle that is well suited to you and do not think you need to change based on someone else's opinions.

[@markm976]

The .308 is still hard to beat for me. The 6.5 manbun is great and all but it’s not a .30 calibre and America is a .30 cal nation😂

[@m444ss]

Great bit of commentary. Here's an additional thought: any specific rifle task has multiple options with no single “best” cartridge since (a) "best" is subject underlying criteria, which are not constant & universal, and (b) multiple cartridges can meet specific criteria. For hunting in much of the country, range is inside 200 yards (often much less) and for that the .308 Win is a great option among many. For pest control in many states on a passel of feral hogs, a semi-auto .308 Win is a great option among many.

[@Paladin1873]

I've always considered it a 90% 30'06.

[@kesleycottrell1416]

The thing that blows my mind with the .308 Win. is the accuracy. Really by far the easiest round to reload. The recoil is good. My daughter and granddaughter both love their .308. On deer the meat damage is good also. It's just an awesome round.

[@whoshotashleybabbitt4924]

Bot alert! You have won nothing. It’s a scam!

[@marcmoore4115]

I was doing load development with Vihtavuori N-140 and Nosler 165gr AccuBond. All powder charges I shot from 4gr below max up to max, all shot under an inch with the best being under .5". Load I ended up choosing gave me a .44" 9 shot group and I even managed a .175" 3 shot group. But... I'm pretty certain cartridges like 6 BR, 6 Dasher, etc. Which are popular for PRS are much easier to load accurate loads for.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

I've not been without a .308 Win since 1972. Accuracy really depends on the rifle and bullets. For testing rifle accuracy potential the Federal Gold Match 168gr is the gold standard. If a .308 won't shoot that well, then maybe look for a different rifle or consider accuracy tweaks or try a few different bullets. Odds are it won't shoot better than Gold Match, but you never know. One .308 I never could find a really good load was a Rem 788, plus its stock design beat the living crap out of my shoulder. Ironically I spent more effort trying to find that magic handload than all the other .308's combined (about a dozen).

[@ferrucciomazzon1927]

Since 1980 have used this cartridge for 300 meters matches with 155 grains Sierra . My free rifle after abt, 15000 shots still groups 20 shots in 3.5 centimeters. When hunting with a Remington 700 same caliber at 200 meters groups measuring 8/9 millimeters are the norm. What can you ask for more?

[@BrianJohnson-bb2vi]

Cool and informative, Thanks Guys.

[@phill7404]

Thank you for podcast the info is spot on. I live in Sydney, I’ve been a 308w shooter for a couple of decades now. I totally agree with what you have stated about the 308w capabilities, advantages, disadvantages and its limitations. With the limited large game over here the 308w suits this environment and still have a vital role for my needs. Since I’ve had exposure to much better options to invest in like the 6.5CM and the 7mm PRC for those longer shoots these two calibers have filled the gap of the 308w limitations. Cheers Phill

[@bradbo3]

I hunt the north east woods…sometimes fields. 308 is fantastic for that use….its cheap and plentiful and lots of kinds of bullets. Feels like your whole case is based on western hunters or hunting…or long range shooting….I honestly think you guys should do an episode of where most hunters are found….north east and south or out west. We still hunt with 30-30’s, 308’s , 243’s…and more. Oh and many other militaries though-out the world still use 7.62x51.

[@U.C.Hunter]

Oh boy, tell that to Randy Newberg that 308 is not good for elk, and to "try 9 more times" lol

[@williamgaines9784]

My hand went up quick when it sounded like he was offering 20 elk hunts.😀 I would be more than happy for somebody to take me out on 20 elk hunts to test the lethality of 2 different cartridges.

[@Hammerpaints]

The .308 is perfect for the Australian Bush. 300 yards is about the longest distance that's practical. Long Barrel life on top of all that makes it a great cartridge. No doubt there is a better round out there. But you need to factor in the game you hunting cost of running the rifle and longevity of the tool and the Country of Use. The .308 loves Australia and we love it.

[@rodneyhickman825]

Sold my 308 for a 30-06 . Just prefer a little extra gas over 308 . I would rather even a 270. I prefer the speed advantage . Using copper or bonded bullets do best at the higher velocities .

[@LuvBorderCollies]

@@FranzAntonMesmer Just get a bigger one from Weatherby or the Ultra Mag.

[@jeffreybrunken556]

Good analysis. For those of us not blessed to live in the wide-open West, a more compressed environment does keep the .308 pretty useful. Here in south Florida, for example; it’s an unapologetically solid and reliable hog round. This is no small thing, as hogs fall into that important subcategory of larger game that can, and sometimes do, switch roles from hunted to hunter. You can have a lot of confidence in a well-placed .308 round should you ever have a problem with a piggy. 👍🏻

[@GlennHa]

Best advice I got while reloading is "Don't try to make a magnum out of it." Meaning, if you want a 300 Win Mag, get one. Don't try to load a 308 to magnum levels (that goes for many other cartridges: don't try to make a 45ACP into a 44 Mag....if you want a 44 Mag, get one).

[@rustyshackleford9017]

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. hunting and the army made me love 308. to the point that if its in within 800m its a hit with minimal effort

[@walth5336]

Here in Florida, the .308 is still very useful. But I've not seen a shot over 200 yards

[@Paladin1873]

7-08, 308, and 358 all fill a sweet spot for me. And now we have the 6.5 CM for those who can't get enough of this versatile intermediate platform (yes, I know it was developed from the 30 TC which itself was developed from the 308 case).

[@fedup3582]

I was riding high there with you until you brought up the creedmoor. Objectively it has merit, but I'm not so impressed with it. When it first came out, I was excited for it, thinking it would be a great lightweight, compact hunting rifle for deer sized game. Then the hype seemed to snowball uncontrollably. I went out and got one for myself to find out the truth. It turned out to be exactly what I expected, a tweaked 260 Remington. It was accurate, comfortable to shoot, but when I took it hunting, while it got the job done, I found it very underwhelming. Yet we get constantly bombarded with how great a cartridge it is and pretty quick you start to resent it. The 7mm-08, 308, and especially the 358 have all delivered for me. 👍👍👍

[@Paladin1873]

@@fedup3582 I concur with your assessment, but these days we strive to be inclusive. 🙂

[@brianalbrecht4423]

At the range one day I spoke with an Army Green Beret sniper who was enlisted 4 close to 40 years...& did 4 tours....his wepon of choice was the M14(new version not fully automic is the M1A from Springfield ) chambered in....308...4 me @ almost 64 yo....i cant even see more than 250 yards...so...any other round would "far" exced my capabilites...!...had the plesure of watch'n him shoot...in his 60ies(also)....impresed the hell out of me...!...thank 4 a objective review...u made me even "more" happy with the choice I made.....good video...thanks....

[@Honu-up3ou]

Thanks, very informative.

[@paulis7319]

I'm sooo glad you mentioned barrel length for maximum performance! I've been planning my first AR-10 build and this info is very helpful.

[@DasGoodSoup]

You probably want a 20" on that ar10

[@paulis7319]

@@DasGoodSoup I'm actually considering building one with a 7.5" barrel just to measure the parameters and work from there. The fireball at night would be spectacular!

[@LRRPFco52]

12" AR-10 suppressed is good if you want to suppress.

[@warrenharrison9490]

The fps difference at the muzzle between 16-18-20" is very low with 308. I found a Hanson profile 18" with optimized .308/7.62x51 chambering that's been very accurate and that 2" less is a little more wieldy and maneuverable after adding 2" of comp on it.

[@pb7087]

The M80A1 uses a 130gr bullet. The Barnes TTSX 130gr in 308 is also proving to be pretty handy.

[@Dumprune]

50gr.TAC ,3080fps out of a 20"barrel. Deer slayer.

[@pb7087]

Wait, out of a 308? I knew they had some really light bullet options, but that velocity is 5.56 velocities for a 50gr in a 20”.

[@rickgriswold522]

I love both my .308s WIN rigs. Always have great groupings, and they are still reasonably priced rounds.

[@MD-mm1zv]

The .308 is a short-range combat round, particularly at home in urban situations. As a complimentary thumper to the 5.56 within 300-yards, even from AR-10's (where it belongs), I'm expecting it to be superb. We'll see.

[@peterweikel7123]

For my mid range hunting (out to 300yds) the 308 is one of my favorite rounds. Its a pleasure to shoot. Most of the time however i can't be assured of a sub 300yd shot making the 300 weatherby mag and theb7 rem mag are more often mt calibers of choice for hunting

[@jeffreylocke8808]

The 7mm-08 is what the 308 was supposed to be. An actual match for the 30/06 using bullets of the same sectional density.

[@skeeterdavis5777]

"UNTIL" you up the grains, it will stick with it.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

Thanks for the great info. I was just looking into getting a 308. I do not hunt the plains, only northeast woodlands. But I want a cartridge that can handle some of our smaller fields and power lines, but not something that will destroy the meat if I end up taking the deer at 40-70 yards. I will definitely be using 180 grain to slow it down as much as I can. Most of the time my 30-30 will still be my main deer rifle, but I need a scoped, longer range capable rifle for those odd times. Plus I might end up with a moose tag one of these days.

[@ben501st]

The 308 was chosen by the us military because it was the best at compromising. To this day, it still holds up as one of the greatest compromise rounds.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

For urban sniping ops, the 243 Winchester is good. Average ranges in urban setting is around 70 yards. An 85-90 gr pill has such a short time of flight that it’s ideal, nearly a laser beam.

[@Ben-py2xq]

yeah if you're living in downtown bahkmut 243 is a great caliber

[@MyLonewolf25]

Any rifle round under 100m has such a short flight time comparison of any of them is moot

[@DinoNucci]

​@@MyLonewolf25correct

[@M.H.D.actual]

Yeah, you can accomplish the same thing with the 308 by loading 110 grain through 130 grain bullets.

[@DinoNucci]

@@M.H.D.actual correct

[@Ruger44Redhawk]

Love the .308. Still endorse Cooper's Scout Rifle concept ans would love to get a hold of the Ruger Gunsite Scout with 10 round mag. Curious what hat your rockin' here.

[@dbowen22]

The thing that .308 excels at is being in stock at Walmart for reasonable prices. I can buy hunting loads that'll group consistently into 1.5 MOA and I can shoot steel at 650 yards. If I want to shoot 800 and have ~/

[@406MountainMan]

The best thing about the 308 Winchester is the 7mm-08 Remington. Thanks!!

[@salyer28]

The 308 is perfect.

[@mattevans-koch9353]

Thank you sir for the review of the .308 and its good and bad points.

[@coltonowens2742]

Still the best general purpose AR-10 cartridge period.

[@grob25]

Good job brother. I agree. But, I will always say, shot placement. I choose .308 and 30-06 for hunting elk in western washington because it is rare to have a shot past 300 yds. I always load 180 grain bullets. Partitions are my favorite. I took a 4 by 3 elk two years ago with a 150 grain Hornady Interlock in my 30-06 at 110 yards. That bullet stopped in his heart. Had I not heart shot him, I would have been pulling him out of much thicker woods. As it was, he ran about 150 yards through some really thick stuff. I always appreciate you talking about bullet applications for hunting.

[@Graves-81_69]

The .308 is still one of the best cartridges available in today’s market. Are there better options? Of course, but it’s impossible to ignore the fact that you can find loose 308 rounds in farm trucks and in couch’s. I’m only saying how easy it is to find them while this channel gives you the stats

[@twointhebush6611]

I really like the 308, in fact its about the only 30 cal cartridge I have any real interest in. I'm more a 7mm fan and I was into 6.5 when it was x55 and Creedmoor was just a shooting range. That being said, most of my hunting has been eastern whitetails and the 308 in a lightweight rifle is near perfect for these southwest VA mountains.

[@winstonjones7519]

How do you like your 6.5x55 for deer hunting?

[@twointhebush6611]

@winstonjones7519 the 6.5x55 is a great whitetail cartridge with 120-130gr bullets. It's flat shooting, low recoil and can be in a very light rifle. For deer sized game with mid rangebullet weights, I would put it into the same class as 243win.

[@winstonjones7519]

@twointhebush6611 Thank you Sir.

[@AWareWolf9]

This is a fantastic video, thank you Joseph!

[@BrainBlatster]

I live and hunt in Germany and the .308 is still the post popular caliber by far. German hunting is rarely long range and the game its used on is Fox - Red Deer, so it falls right into its comfortzone here

[@gatormcklusky5850]

6mm ARC, i have two .308, I'm gonna give this 6mm a try. I hear Geissele is putting a lot of work into a AR platform 6mm, should be interesting.

[@marvinbrock960]

The old .308, as boring as it seems, just gets the work done. I was always a 270, 7 mag, 300 WM but most of my life.. I got my kids into shooting with reduced .308 loads… then to full power.. That little dude just whacks stuff inside 250. Good job Joseph. 🇺🇸

[@wiseguy4368]

Your right the 308 isn't much good past 300 yards. But in what I call the west Western Oregon , Washington and Northwest California (west of the Cascade Mountain Range) it is rare to get a shot past 150 yards at game mammals. The 308 is not my choice in hunting rifles but t do a pretty good job at these ranges

[@steveelder5306]

it's where I live and hunt. it's what I shoot most of the time. I use my 308 in Eastern Oregon. I don't see that many long shots out there either.

[@wiseguy4368]

To us everything is back east

[@steveelder5306]

right on. I could hit the Pacific Ocean from my bedroom window with my short range .308. I shot my best blacktail buck in a clearcut a few years ago. I wouldn't care to have to shoot much farther than I did then. I couldn't even see it without binocs. I'm pretty happy with my modified Vanguard .308. my other deer gun is a .54 muzzleloader though. but I just got a nice .44 mag lever gun so I'm gonna be trying it out this year though Ron Spomer might not approve! @@wiseguy4368

[@user-xw4sn4lq4h]

A Blued/Walnut Rifle in .308 with a nice Carl Zeiss scope. Beautiful! 🐗🦌☠️ Perfect!

[@bubba7626]

All in all its one still one heck of a medium range all round cartridge and father of one of my favorites the .243!

[@zachb.6606]

Man, you covered it all. Great video - thanks for sharing!

[@ThatGuy-kf7fo]

I think of the 308 as the modern 30-30: light, handy rifles, easy to find ammo, still works though now outclassed. Agree with you on everything except 6.5CM being more available. It’s popularity makes it hard to find usually for me.

[@russelldowns5628]

You really know your stuff!!!

[@merkel2750]

The 308 is that one car that always starts, always gets you to where you need to go, is cheap enough to service and run, it CAN tow but it doesn’t do it fantastically, but it can do it

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Like the International Harvester 806 diesel tractor. The most reliable bulletproof engine/drive train of larger field tractors. Putting out 100hp to 110hp factory it will run for years if you took care of it. Too big for orchard work and can't pull 30' disk meant for the huge 4x4 tractors. It doesn't make a great lawn mower. But for what it was built for, it hard to beat even by modern equipment.

[@chrome8675]

Love this week's 308 Win videos!

[@GodsLandDownUnder]

I love the .308 how dead do you want something. Kills most things out to 750 m. To qualify. Tasmania Australia, don’t shoot past 250m on fallow deer is the biggest game we have in Tasmania.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Excellent topic. Well done. I would put many great offerings of factory ammo and definitely handloads inside of 400 for elk with practiced & prepared shooter. At these range limits I am inclined to believe the 308 is one of the best short action chamberings for elk. The 7mm-08 would likely have a bit of advantage from 300-400 with a good bullet. I would think the 308 is better than the 6.5 CM in this 300-400 range. At inside 250 most these 308 daughters(243, 7mm-08) and 6mm & 6.5 short action chamberings are more than sufficient with good bullets and shot placement. It seems like the real issue is beyond 400ish yards for most of the "smaller" chamberings. The 284 Win and maybe the 6.5-284 would stretch out to 600 adequately. Thank you much.

[@skeeterdavis5777]

Not mentioning the 30-06 LoL!!

[@SamuelBerryhill]

The 308 win is a work horse and a great all around cartridge and I e used it for over 10 years and have had great success with it and if you do not hand load you can find factory ammo easily and can harvest big game out to 450 yards with factory ammo and with my hand loads in my rifle I have 1500 plus foot pounds of energy at 500 plus yards.also it is a great plinking round and with help a newer shooter learn to read wind better and how a bullets drifts and drops at distance. To me it’s a great cartridge and it and a 300 win mag will always be in my safe but I 90% of the time will pick the 308 win over the 300 win mag

[@Pyle81]

The 308 Definitely has its place. And Joseph is 100% correct, Out WEST where the typical hunting shots start where the 308 starts to drop off is the problem. Therefore the 308 is more a of a geographic caliber in my opinion. Such as the rolling hills and mountains in the Eastern US. In states like Pa,NY, WV, Maryland and other in the Appalachian and Smokey Mountains Regions. Where Whitetail and Black Bear are the Big Game. Yes, Im well aware there are VERY limited opportunities to hunt Rocky Mountain Elk in Pa and Kentucky. However since those are special draw tags that are EXTREMELY HARD TO AQUIRE. And often have caliber restrictions to use with those tags. I don't include those states as your everyday Elk Hunting States. In recent yrs I made some changes to my hunting rifle and target rifle inventory. The 308 Bolt rifle (Rem.700) was traded for a 300 Win Mag with a 26" barrel. And I built a custom large Frame AR-10 in 308 with a 20" barrel. At the same time, I also put together a pair of upper's that fit on that AR-10 lower in 243 Win. And 6.5 Creedmoor. Why?? Just because with the recent political unrest in the firearms world, Especially towards the AR style platform. I figured I'd better do it now before some aged out Demented Old Fool managed to get enough other liberal idiots to follow his Anti Gun Liberal Bull Shit.

[@JohnkJV316]

35 whelen is my go to hits likes a brick

[@JohnkJV316]

@@ClickOnProfile203 ok

[@jimyeats]

Fact: The 7.62x51 - when shot from an M14 - is the most capable round in the world. I read that on Joseph Smiths golden tablets I think.

[@Oldhogleg]

3 guns bestowed to man from God: 1911, M1, M14 😁

[@jfess1911]

Yesterday, I just happened to look up the accuracy spec for the M14. Apparently it was 5.5" at 100 yards, which surprised me.

[@Simon-talks]

@@jfess1911 mine regularly shoots 1.5" at 100 yards with the irons

[@Oldhogleg]

@@jfess1911 All military rifles with military ammo typically shoots 4MOA give or take. It's been that way for like a hundred years.

[@glockparaastra]

I've done pretty well at 1120m with a 155gr Custom Comp out of my 26" barrelled 308win. It is a great learning curve as bullet drop and wind drift will teach you how to correct for them. But as you say, sub 600m the 308 does best.

[@user-jg1of2vc9z]

Great video! I really enjoy your approach and detail shared. Not too detailed for some of us but very informative. I've been shooting a 308 I purchased from my dad before he passed for about a decade. Hunting Missouri Ozarks (mostly wooded), it has worked extremely well with light recoil. I've wondered and research what the hunting limits for it would be. Your video and others you have on the 308 are far the best I've seen.

[@superdavekc5vmq]

308 is it perfect deer rifle we don’t need a sniper rifle to hunt game like deer wild hogs

[@Simon-talks]

and what's cool is; the .308 actually is a popular military and police sniper rifle

[@blackfam972]

You set up strawman and then knock them down. For example you could say the 6.5 Creedmoor only is acceptable to use in june during pride month. Oh bad example that's actually true.

[@Ruger44Redhawk]

We've taken back June as Straight Pride month. Living under Jewish Communism in this fake and gay country is becoming unlivable.

[@garysnotsowildadventures3045]

I would love one of these history and breakdown for modern analysis on the 7x57. Great video and good points to pick a catridge for the job as there is no one cartridge for all uses.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

Really enjoyed the video My favorite rifle happens to be a Remington model Seven laminate chambered in 308, 20 inch barrel shooting 168gr. Sierra matching bullets. Sub moa at 200yrds. Here in Wisconsin that’s a long shot. lol Actually of all the deer I’ve shot we’re under 125yrds. That’s what makes it “MY”favorite rifle 😊

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

@@ClickOnProfile5522 Gift?

[@trentbottin4467]

Joseph, If you want to maintain credibility, remain consistent in your messaging and stop being a mouthpiece for Hornaday. - The .308 is only good "inside 200 yds...maybe 250" Simply laughable. - You say the .308 is good out to 600 yds. Yet, you just did an episode making the case (and Ron has stated multiple times) that hunting at ranges north of 450-500 is unethical. So who cares if the .308 can't kill paper at 12 miles. - The 6.5 CM is a better round. It's so good the Hornady released a second 6.5 - the PRC - just 10 yrs later. Why? Because the 6.5 CM is not a good hunting round...period. - The 6.5 PRC is a superior round. Maybe. We will never know because because you can't find it on the shelves. And, when you do, it is 2x-3x more expensive than .308 ammo. If only Hornaday would release yet another cartridge that is better than the .308. Wait. They did. All hail the 7mm PRC. Spoiler Alert: You cant find that either.

[@believe722]

Great info.

[@jfess1911]

I wish that a "308 Match" chambering would be standardized and become widely available in factory rifles. A lot has been learned about how to get better average accuracy with mass-produced rifles in the past 70 years. The main change would be tightening up the slop in the chamber in front of the case to improve bullet alignment as it enters the rifling. For example, the slop in the freebore section is 4 times that of the similarly performing 30 TC and its descendant, the 6.5 Creedmoor. The 30 TC had some advantages but was not commercially successful, so the closest thing to an improved 308 that is easy to get is the 7mm-08.

[@GoodGuysCarry]

I just bought a new Kimber Pro Hunter in .308. The primary reason I bought it is because ammo is so readily available. I own a .270 WSM and a .300 WSM, and they are great shooters but it’s tough finding factory ammo.

[@OutsidetheEchochamber]

I’ve taken elk, bear, deer with my kimber 308 I like 180 federal trophy bonded. Out to 300-400 yards it’s all you need (which happens to be what most claim to be ethical)

[@user-ci1zw2fg4t]

Aram Von Benedikt stole a trophy deer from a girl in a utah hunt! Basically poached the deer from her after she shot it and took it down

[@martinarkelian5280]

Good info. I love my Tikka .308 because it's easy to reload for, very accurate and even with a light rifle like mine has very easy recoil. By the way, like the .308, I'm over 70 and still in my prime.

[@chrisreynolds1817]

I had some bonded 150 grain that put pencil holes through both shoulders on a big body buck. Still have well over half a box collecting dust now

[@nathanbailey9153]

Since the ".308" (M80) is the round fired in the M240 Machine gun, and the ".308" (7.62.51 NATO) is generally speaking the ".30 Caliber Machine gun" ammo of our US Military, I'd guess there is nearly as much 7.62 rounds used as there are 5.56 rounds. Those machine guns really eat up the ammo. Other than that, I'd say you were spot on with this video. I think all .308 owners should watch this so they have a better idea of what their rifle is, and is not, capable of. Thank you for the great video.

[@isaiahrankin5063]

Very informative

[@ricksmith7232]

It’s cheap enough that anyone can stock up on it, effective enough within 2-400 yards and has a good barrel life. It’s a good caliber for a SHTF type situation. Never say never

[@chrish1585]

My 308 is my battle rifle zeroed at 200 yards. My do everything in north America rifle is a 270. The argument about caliber for military precision marksman has changed drastically in the last 20 or so years. Previously, the gravitation to the 308/7.62 was for compatibility. Everyone in a unit carried ammo for the machine gun chambered in 7.62 NATO. If a sniper or designated marksman ran out of 175 grain open tip match, they could still use the less accurate and less range 150 grain fmj from the machine gun. The same philosophy was used in all the previous wars going back to WW1. The more specialized units have in the recent past started exploring other options because availability is "currently" not an issue.