MZTV 1552: OMG, The Gulf Between the Two Gospels is Wider Than I Thought

In my man-on-the-street interview with Honest Jim on Friday’s show, I tried to interpret his words in light of Paul’s gospel. There was no connection. And when I spoke Pauline truth to him, my words landed like the Hindenburg.
We were literally speaking foreign languages to one another.
For as many years as I have realized the differences between the Israel gospel and Paul’s gospel to the nations, I see now that the gulf is even wider than I thought.
Jim’s big-gun verse was 1 Peter 2:24: “[Jesus Christ] Who Himself carries up our sins in His body on to the pole, that, coming away from sins, we should be living for righteousness.” Jim says this verse proves that, in spite of Jesus dying FOR sins, believers must still walk away from these sins in order to be saved. Since my conversation with Jim, I have tried to make this verse reflect Paul’s truth of justification by faith-but I just can’t do it.
MZ/IB Archive: WCCD Grace Café: The Apostle Paul Loses His National Identity (July 15, Hour 2):
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[@kimberley5793]

As time shortens things get clearer and clearer to me.. But I realize, it is also like that with other believers..

[@undergrace722]

☀Grace and Peace☀

[@davidlatham8271]

So I was talking to my next door neighbor the other day, who is the lead chaplain at the local military installation, while talking he says “my wife is a much better Christian than I am” I’m thinking good grief this is the gospel of the circumcision and he is clueless about justification. I know he said I t as kind of a throwaway line, but he is saying that she is better than him because of her behavior. No one understands Paul’s gospel, truly shocking.

[@lindamorse2659]

We are a rare breed

[@ShalomKosi]

Honestly when he said Jesus didn't take away sin, my stomach turned.

[@JKBelle]

Amen! It’s such a lonely walk 😩

[@donnaguilmain4989]

Martin, this was a great message explaining why it's so hard to explain to Christians that there are two gospels and what that means for us.

[@GregUniRec]

As I have stated in these comments many times, I learned of and accepted the 2 evangels many years before I learned of the other great truths taught by Paul. It had to be that way for me. I'm a nuts and bolts, logical thinking kind of guy. Things need to make sense to me before I can accept them. If someone would have come to me with the salvation of all message, before the 2 evangels, I doubt that I would have accepted it. I couldn't have, because it doesn't jibe with what Jesus taught in His earthly ministry. Without the 2 evangels, you have to try and force the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Paul together. They don't mix, so I probably would have rejected the salvation of all because "Jesus didn't teach that". Without the 2 evangels, we are forced to mix. I am envious of those BoC members that did accept Pauls evangel before learning that it was different. They accepted the truth purely on faith. I needed concrete evidence.

[@donaldhandy1060]

I wish I could find the video where you called the mixing of the two gospels an unpalatable gruel Martin That made such an impression on me because it rings so true

[@MatthewFisher-v1k]

MZ, Great follow-up. We experience the same kind of answers to the same kinds of questions concerning Churchianity. No matter what we say our target is blinded and locked up in stubbornness. Michelle keeps reminding me that it isn’t up to us it’s the power of the Holy Spirit that allows the belief of all truths. Great show and really great review of the ends of the spectrum of the two gospels. Have an excellent day. M’s❤

[@KeeferAGM45]

What gets me about Ace's channel is there's a rotating gaggle of the same 3 or 4 people that have confronted him for a year? Years? Extremely patient, that man!

[@TheGreatUnfoldingRobWile]

Ace has the patience of a sniper 😂

[@donnaguilmain4989]

@@TheGreatUnfoldingRobWile so true Rob

[@Larrythecoolguy]

Ah yes!! The 2nd Peter verse quoted to me many times from my daughter and her husband, whom are both locked up in an organized Christian Church cult. They both have advised us that they have shown us grace for a long period of time out of respect of being her parent but has recently informed us that we will no longer be allowed to see them. My daughter was always a cheerful, pure hearted member of the BOD but married into the religion cult. They consider us hell bound for not believing in such a terrible horrific doctrine. We are anticipating the snatching away with faith, love and excitement to be finally routed out of here. Love to you all and thank you Martin for your continued love and teaching the Truth.

[@mattloyselle9218]

What a great video Martin. I am so thankful for God and Jesus Christ for giving me faith to believe Paul, in justification. And I'm thankful for you and the rest of the body of Christ that I get a daily reminder of my calling, This Friday I went to a football game at Michigan state, and there was a street preacher with a mega phone, I was tempted to go up to him and see if he believed in justification and the salvation of all. But I am shy too, If I have time to plan and think out a statement I'm good, but in the moment I tend to loose focus and ramble. That's something you do really well, (talking, not rambling) like in your Grace Cafe broadcast. Grace and peace to you, and please keep sharing the truth.

[@chillipaha8130]

My saving grace was knowing that the Word could not contradict itself. I believed that from my core. I was blind until I saw... Martin say 2 gospels? Dug deeper... Lies I believed... Hell, Eternity, continously repentance, continous works, Baptism... many more... Finally, I was given eyes to see the lies and magically(spiritually)no more contraditions... thank you Martin for being that voice for Him! It has changed my life...

[@MosesHanma]

The way Jim thought he had those few "GOTCHA" moments was hilarious 😂 and THIS is why I'm good on even sitting with vocal Christians I don't have to be around.

[@lawrenceschuler9276]

The gulf between the BOC and Christians is the very reason there are only a few thousand true believers in the BOC living today.

[@lisadisme]

100% right Martin..God has to open their eyes..I've spent so much time trying to show people that there's 2 different things going on, because once you see it, its so obvious and you think "how can they not see this?".. speaking of Ace, OMG he has the patience of a saint:-):-)..he has 3 main opposers, a Calvinist, a moralist and a Preterist..I have a question about them? ..all 3 of them have heard the truth multiple times and they can't accept it, will they have a harsher judgement? Sometimes I think Ace should stop dealing with them for their own sakes.

[@juangallegos1048]

Sounds like a start of a good joke, a calvanist, moralist & a preterist walk into a bar.....😊

[@lisadisme]

@@juangallegos1048 lol

[@yostoisonin2559]

​@@juangallegos1048they would never!

[@donnaguilmain4989]

Lisa, that's a good question. iI's like Peter denying Christ 3x, except they deny the truth 30X3 or more when presented with it.

[@lisadisme]

@@yostoisonin2559 lol..they need to.

[@teejosh9550]

Great discovery ❤😊.

[@rubytuby6369]

I saw the conflict between Paul and the four gospels decades ago, but couldn’t get what was wrong .Kept thinking why why why, it seems like they’re saying two different things really struggled with it . Then a few years back, I came across Les Feldick who shed some light on it , but still seem to mix the two. Then the floodgates opened when I search the two gospels on KZbin and found Martin, and Wes, and others. I guess the best way to approach showing others the salvation of all, and the two gospels is just to mention it to them and plant the seed keeping the lines of communication open and answering their questions.

[@yostoisonin2559]

Martin, I finally realized that "salvation" means different things, too. For the Circumcision it means "getting into the earthly Kingdom", tge salvation of your soul. For Christians, "not going to hell", for us "being raised from death to immortality and being with the Lord forever'.

[@yostoisonin2559]

In order to get into the Kingdom as an Israelite/Proselyte you really have to fulfill the repentance/good works requirements.

[@Roc-Righteous]

Repent means to change your MIND! Acts 2:38 they had to change their minds about who Christ was. This old man is nuts. Good video Mr Zender.

[@costantinotony4748]

I’ll tell you what! If what “they” say is true, they don’t have any peace!

[@TheFlipSideOfLife69]

Debra McCullough here. Good morning Martin. I am currently studying eon 5. Your video on Thursday was fantastic. I'm looking forward to further teachings. I still have questions. There are BOC members that believe Eon 5 is the Connsumation. I disagree with that. One question I do have, is when does the vivification occur? Will there be a mixture of Mortals and immortals in Eon 5? Grace and Peace 🙏🏾 ❤❤❤

[@SandyMiller-ep9tl]

...yes, I'm looking fwd to more of the same. Many more ??? I really learned a lot from last wks episodes! Still chewing on some things...plan to listen again back to back, hopefully today🙏🏼💜

[@fellowshipofthemystery6154]

All this guy needs to know... Rom 5:20 And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound,

[@TerryClemens-uv2er]

Many Christians seem to at least recognize that without the cross none would be saved.

[@ambassadorofconciliation]

I am not sure honest Jim was sharing the gospel of the circumcision, as much as a different gospel which is not another (Gal 1:6-7).

[@zendermeister]

You are absolutely correct, because he tried to say it was totallyby grace. So that is for sure a mixing. He is heralding non-gospel.

[@taylorwolfman]

Spot on Martin. That is what it usually devolves to with my Ace Theo side chat conversations. They do not understand the two gospels and they cannot see it. So whenever we talk they always morph the two gospels together and refuse to properly cut them in two.

[@aiami2695]

There is no two gospels only one, you and lots of others have been fooled! Repent, because God`s Kingdom is at hand! This is the good news what Jesus Christ was teaching! Peter taught people (Jews) to believe in Jesus, Paul taught people (gentile) the forgiveness in the blood of Jesus. It is not contradictory at all. Peace for all !!! 😉😉👍👍

[@zendermeister]

You follow Peters gospel? Have you repented of the crucifixion of Christ and been baptized in water?

[@aiami2695]

​@@zendermeister Martin, Jesus was forgiving sins before his blood sacrifice, how does it works then? Blood or no blood? On what bases Jesus Christ will judge people? Why God examining the hearts of people? Peace be with you!

[@costantinotony4748]

My mind immediately goes to reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin!

[@donaldkgarman296]

GOOD MORNING BODY OF CHRIST

[@brok54]

Aaaaaaaand…there it is!

[@truthseekers1620]

sin died on the cross Christ was raised from the dead

[@svenandhelga6959]

Thx Martin. No truer words were ever spoke regarding trying to talk to someone fix in the circumcision evangel about the un evangel, it's a tower of babble experience.

[@gracehillcolorado2668]

Mix LAW and Grace? And there is no more Grace. This guy is Lordship Salvation................. .Why have a cross at all?

[@truthseekers1620]

even if we sin that's where grace comes in which is greater than sin. we do not however practice sin because of grace there are still consequences because of sin but Christ took care of it on the cross

[@truthseekers1620]

repentance means to change your thinking

[@TheGreatUnfoldingRobWile]

I am one who hates confrontation, the christian religion stinks and the majority will NOT be convinced of the truth period. I guess my deal would be focusing on our Celestial Status in spirit rather than the soulish self righteous shit that stinks up religion or churchianity. But of course the contrastive is necessary. I loved giving your books out at the mini libraries that was awesome. Your a trooper brother.

[@Roc-Righteous]

Old people always claim they stopped sinning, and if you are sinning and don't stop sinning, you were never saved to begin with. Such BS. I may do a video on that verse.

[@gabrielalexander9753]

The difference between the two evangels is simpler and starker than most people realize, including among the members of the Body of Christ. In the circumcision evangel what separates man from God is SIN. In the uncircumcision evangel what separates man from God is MORTALITY. Debating ANYONE about the difference between PARDON and JUSTIFICATION will go nowhere unless they understand the relationship between SIN and MORTALITY. In Romans 7 Paul asked: “What will rescue me out of this BODY OF DEATH?” (emphasis added) Peter would have never asked that question. And maybe this kind of question from Paul made Peter assert that in Paul’s epistles there were “some things hard to apprehend.” Peter's cross addresses humanity's SIN... Paul's cross addresses humanity's MORTALITY... WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

[@yostoisonin2559]

Huh... so Peter's gospel is about who Christ is...and what man should then do (not sin). But Paul talks of what man is (mortal) and what Christ did about it.

[@gabrielalexander9753]

@@yostoisonin2559 BOTH evangels are about WHO Christ is and WHAT His accomplishments were. But for the circumcision He is the Messiah of Israel, who took away their sins. Those who believe this message have eonian life. For the uncircumcision He is the One who justifies all mankind, who creates a new humanity, who vivifies all - but each in his own class - who ultimately abolishes death and reconciles all those on earth and all those in the heavens to God, so that God may be ALL IN ALL. Those who believe this message receive a new body and are made IMMORTAL at the snatching away. What humanity "should" do is BELIEVE... but that can only happen if God gives them belief ("ALL IS OF GOD")... As far as sinning is concerned, Paul has proven conclusively that it is impossible for mortal man to stop sinning.

[@yostoisonin2559]

@@gabrielalexander9753 Thanks. I very much appreciated your first comment and was trying to put it in a nutshell, referring back to another comment recently from someone putting the 2 evangels in a nutshell (Who Jesus is vs What Christ did).

[@yostoisonin2559]

@@gabrielalexander9753 I finally realized that "salvation" means different things for both evangels, too. For the Circumcision it means "getting into the earthly Kingdom", the salvation of your soul. For us, salvation is "being raised from death to immortality and being with the Lord forever'. For many Christians, salvation probably is "not going to hell". The Circumcision salvation is limited to the 4th eon...

[@gabrielalexander9753]

@@yostoisonin2559 You've got it ALL correct, my brother... And, yes, according to IDIOT (from Greek "idiotes" - a lay person) Christians "salvation" is "not going to (the imaginary) hell, which they invented... But here is another interesting fact, since you mentioned the for the circumcision the salvation is "of the soul." NOT SO for us... We will NOT even have souls... Were you aware of that?

[@tonyladokguy8985]

I'm surprised he didn't pull out the "Roman Road" on you, where they take several passages of Romans out of context, re-arrange them out of order, and basically re-invent Paul's message to come up with works-based salvation.

[@fredmelisano9653]

the word 'might' puts it in your hands. you might die to sins or you might not, it depends on you.

[@russe130]

Christianity is full of sayings and phrases that don't even make any sense in the first place, I think that's why they word things the way they do so that you can interpret that how you want. Die to your sins???? What does that even mean?

[@ba.anderson]

Has anyone considered how the two goats of the day of Atonement may represent the two gospels? Think about it. One goat was chosen to be sacrificed. The other goat was chosen to take away the sins from the camp. (See Lev16:7-10) This came to me while listening to the contrast between the sacrifice and the cross, the justification and the forgiveness, the grace and the works. Lev16:7And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. 10But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

[@AndrewLong-m9r]

Lewis Ruth Hernandez Patricia Young Jose

[@Pablo-p7y]

7:32 "repentance... is essential in the circumcision gospel in the Israel gospel....not required in Our Gospel" "if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth" - Apostle Paul "if perhaps" b/c God's purpose is according to election.

[@MonroeAlva-f7r]

Hall Cynthia Johnson Edward Harris Robert

[@RandyBenjamin-i7x]

Williams Brian Perez Mark Martin Jennifer

[@woodendoors1075]

28:17 no offense to any of you but that's exactly why i don't want to be there lol

[@ScottMoore-r8w]

Wilson Jennifer Hernandez Steven Smith Sarah

[@KennethLayton-v3q]

Hernandez Sharon Jackson Deborah Lewis Eric

[@annieBBL24]

how then is 1 Corinthians 6:11 to be understood? Paul says "... and such WERE some of you ..." seems like these have stopped sinning.

[@Giulietta-d4v]

Johnson Mary Allen Nancy Clark Jennifer

[@ceciliahoward7932]

Jones Cynthia White Kevin Brown Deborah

[@MorganJill-r9b]

Harris William Moore Elizabeth Brown Shirley

[@lindamorse2659]

Martin, just repent and be baptized. How sad for honest Jim. How happy for us who know justification

[@FannyMag]

Lewis Joseph Gonzalez Jeffrey Martin Christopher

[@MorganJill-r9b]

Jackson Michael White Christopher Williams Larry

[@UrmiAktar-l9d]

Garcia Angela Jackson Paul Allen Margaret

[@ba.anderson]

Peter seems to borrow from Paul on more than one occasion. Here in 1Pet2:24 Peter speaks of the power of the cross causing us to die to sin and live for righteousness which is by the wounds of Christ we are healed, whereas in Rom6:6,7 Paul speaks of the power of the cross to set us free from sin by dying together with Christ unto justification. How different is living for righteousness (Peter) from justified from sin (Paul)? Is not the one having been justified from sin now living for righteousness? That's the whole matter of being justified by faith. We are now living together with Christ! That's what Paul says in v8. Is this not living for righteousness? Romans 6:8 CLV(i) 8 Now if we died together with Christ, we believe that we shall be living together with Him also

[@ElsieMay-z1h]

Gonzalez Scott Martinez Betty Lee Betty

[@MonroeAlva-f7r]

Clark Nancy Perez Scott Brown Scott

[@MorganJill-r9b]

White Matthew Lopez Ronald Thompson Gary

[@aiami2695]

Matthew 19:16-22 New King James Version Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [d]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 😉😉👍👍

[@zendermeister]

Have you sold everything you have? If not, why not?

[@Pablo-p7y]

14:41 "because the whole human race is Justified" Sorry, not true - only believers are justified (Rom 5:1 clt) and declared righteous (Rom 3:22 ylt), (Rom 4:3 ylt).

[@yostoisonin2559]

Check out Rom. 3:23 - and 24!! This is a proleptic statement. God's righteousness is "for all, and on all who are believing" (Rom 3:22). You are right in that only believers have God's righteousness "on" them NOW.

[@Pablo-p7y]

@@yostoisonin2559 you: "You are right in that only believers have God's righteousness "on" them NOW." Yes, because we read about it. But we don't read from Paul or anyone else that those cast into the lake of fire ever believe. Universalists tell us that ;)

[@yostoisonin2559]

@@Pablo-p7y Well, what we do read - several times - is that the Lake of Fire is the Second Death. It is a second time to be dead. What we also read is that Death is the last enemy to be abolished. When Death is abolished - what else can be left but life? Then we also read that as in Adam ALL die (including of course those in the Lake of Fire/second death) - THUS in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

[@Pablo-p7y]

@@yostoisonin2559 you: "What we also read is that Death is the last enemy to be abolished." Abolished for the believing - not the unbelieving. 54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, ‘The Death was swallowed up - to victory you: "THUS in Christ shall ALL be made alive." Only those God predestined and called are "in Christ".

[@hardsayings2400]

There's only one gospel.

[@lisadisme]

what is it?

[@hardsayings2400]

@@lisadisme Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ through his death, burial and resurrection for the propitiation of your past, present and future sins to receive the free gift of eternal life that cannot be lost.

[@lisadisme]

@@hardsayings2400 that's the evangel to the uncircumcision..the one to the Circumcision is repent and be baptized for the remission of sins..Circumcision is forgiveness and works and the uncircumcision is justification and grace apart from works..that's just a small part of it.

[@hardsayings2400]

@@lisadisme biblical repentance is turning from what hinders you from believing on what actually saves you(your dead works, your family name, your good-looks, whatever) TO what actually saves you: the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[@lisadisme]

@@hardsayings2400 biblical repentance is changing your mind..the Jews (Circumcision) in Acts chapter 2 were told to repent (change their minds) and believe that Jesus was their Messiah..that's the evangel Peter was preaching..Body of Christ (uncircumcision) were chosen before the disruption of the world.

[@MorrisJonsone]

Lewis Angela Jones Laura Miller Joseph