NASTY ARGUMENT AT WASHINGTON | "See you later" -- "Hopefully not!"

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[@sjcwoor]

He should have said "possible ATC deviation, i got a number for you to call when I'm good and ready"

[@lki34442]

Pilot pulls “I need a number” on ATC. Nicely done

[@5calambres]

What a legend!! XD

[@lbowsk]

That Captain is going to open a can of worms and he might not like the final outcome. Pilots seldom win arguments with controllers. He should have just kept his mouth shut and moved on. Just tell his FO to shut up, then say something to placate the tower and moved on. His FO whipping out the testosterone was childish and immature. Safety my ass. The planes were moving at walking speed. They could have collided and no one was going to get "hurt". The only thing hurt here was the Envoy FO's ego. Do you want to stop the push? Fine. Stop the push. But the FO coming up with his BS request that the controller explain himself AT THAT TIME on frequency was just crap and reeked of amateur hour. DCA is a VERY VERY busy airport. The controller didn't have the time for that crap. You'll notice that the Captain eventually took over the radio. He probably told his FO to shut up. Smart move. Been there and did that for decades.

[@templesnack]

@@lbowsk "whipping out the testosterone" holy fuck the aviation community is so soft it's ridiculous lol. Guy asked a question, controller got his panties in a twist. Get over it and move on. The only thing pilots are scared about with ATC is the dumb ones getting them killed or injured.

[@lesliesmith719]

​@@lbowskExcellent response. Stop the push, stop the whining and move on.

[@StickA-yd4fp]

If the wing walkers feel its too close then that's their call to stop the push. Better to be cautious than be wrong.

[@GorgeDawes]

ATC. “How dare your wing-walkers do the thing they are specifically employed to do!”

[@natev8857]

at least they weren't face down in their phones like I see most of them doing during push back!

[@marvinjohnson-johnson8106]

"Tower, Envoy 3984. Possible Tower deviation. I've got a number for you to copy when you're able."

[@Alexianna]

Possible controller deviation. Expect a phone call.

[@DitsMerzthalBravo]

HAHAHAHA

[@neusacurado5593]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@i_mixr]

Now that is solid gold…

[@donnarupert4926]

🤣

[@Cruz474]

“tower we have a phone number for you to copy, advise when ready.”

[@idktbh7108]

He said “Shut up Envoy” like his parents were in the car.

[@63076topher]

The pilot who said shut up Envoy made the situation worse no number was asked for untill aftet that happened.

[@idktbh7108]

@@63076topher yeah that pissed Envoy off for sure.

[@63076topher]

@@idktbh7108 Not saying they shouldn't have stuck uo for ATC here but no numbers were requested untill that the two sighs from Envoy should not have happened.

[@seanvines7090]

@@63076topher I feel like they would've asked for a number anyway. I just don't see a reason for a phone call. The wing walkers said it was too close for comfort and they stopped. That's what they're supposed to do.

[@Hullspeed]

"Shut up Envoy" was stupid unprofessional as well as cowardly since they were trying to be anonymous. If your going to tell someone to shut up, use your call sign, coward.

[@kingarthur5110]

Pilot: 'Hey our wingwalker thinks we're a little close so we're just going to wait a minute before we continue pushing back' Tower: 'and I took that personally'

[@gonzalotome6271]

Yeah, but he brought it back later questioning why it was so close. So I get the responsibility of the Pilot but he was looking to make a case as well

[@EJayMD-11]

Except that's not what the pilot did.

[@CMDRFlyAuburn]

2:35 He said "Sorry, safety is important to us" not "File a safety report".... and he's right, controllers have overinflated egos sometimes just like pilots, and this controller was in the wrong here.

[@stefanmeidlinger2311]

He wasn`t wrong. He just didn`t know that the wing walkers felt unsafe

[@robertd7073]

not all airports require push back clearance, so push back is at own risk....FAA does not control a pushback blocking a "cleared to taxi" aircraft, so all pilots need to be heads up....if you need to stop, stop.....

[@truegret7778]

Who controls the flow of airplanes on the ground and in the air? Who has the big picture? The comment from 3984 was uncalled for, unprofessional, and childish and was appropriately told to "STFU Envoy ...". Not professional on-air, but appropriate.

[@vaporized1000]

The Pilot has ultimate authority over safety matters not ATC. Sometimes controllers forget that.

[@BitwiseMobile]

Right, so he stops the pushback, waits for the plane to taxi by, and continues his pushback. Nowhere in there does he have to whine on the radio like a Karen. What if someone had an emergency situation and needed to contact ATC at that time? Like you said, his responsibility is safety of his own aircraft. ATC has responsibility for all aircraft under their control - on the ground and in the air.

[@josephdale69]

@@BitwiseMobile Exactly. And those wing walkers are contract, minimum wage workers who probably aren’t used to seeing a plane waiting for them.

[@eduardoconde7213]

ATC wasn't the one complaining about "authority". The pilot made a decision then complained.

[@kewkabe]

This pilot forgot that. He implied his pushback was too close to a taxiing aircraft when its his and his wingwalker's responsibility to stay clear.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

@@eduardoconde7213 No... listen again: At 1:05 he berates the pilot for stopping the pushback, and tells him to "keep moving" implying that it wasn't okay for him to stop the pushback. The controller made it an issue at that point.

[@boriz_]

Summarized: Pilot: Our safety guys didn't think it was safe so we stopped ATC: You don't respect my authority now your in the back of the line Pilot: I'm calling your mother.

[@irisfields1659]

That's funny I'm calling ur mother

[@jamesoncurry5224]

loool epic

[@johnnycabb]

burnnnnnn

[@TangoDelta8111]

Lmao top comment😂😂😂😂😂

[@motoboxtv7548]

Mother jokes never failed 😂

[@SidestickPilot]

That’s kinda the point of the wing walkers to verify and make the judgement call if something’s too close. We can’t see behind us obviously and ATC is in a tower 200 feet off the ground. Pretty sure the wing walkers have the best view and final say.

[@johniii8147]

Exactly

[@johnwesly4630]

Except wing walkers can't talk directly to pilots nor atc, only tug operator can. That said wing walkers along with tug operator takes responsibility to push the aircraft again nothing to do with the pilots. If wing walkers saw another aircraft potentially obstructing, they'll stop the push back to resolve, nothing to do with pilots.

[@SidestickPilot]

@@johnwesly4630 the tug driver can talk to us but not ATC. We relay any important information prior to push. “Cleared to push tail south nose abeam X gate” once they commenced the push it’s hard for them to hear us clearly especially when we spin an engine.

[@johnwesly4630]

@Lori-Go To My ChanneI! L!VE NOW Exactly, but why is pilot arguing with atc and telling them that he told the tug to stop. Pilot has no business after he passes clearance from atc and the whole responsibility is of ground crews.

[@SidestickPilot]

@@johnwesly4630 it is our responsibility to both relay to ATC our situation and dictate the A/C. The PIC is entirely responsible for the safe operation of the A/C. If the wing walkers tell me they think it’s too close I’m telling them to stop and wait then I’m going to relay that information to ATC/ramp control. I would’ve done it in a different way then this crew but what they did was the right call nonetheless and I’m not going to armchair quarterback another PIC’s decision when that’s not my A/C and I wasn’t in the seat in the situation.

[@2skydream]

What was the pilot supposed to say to his wing walkers ? “Hey I know your not happy with how close that taxiing aircraft is and feel it’s unsafe but ATC have told me to push so we’ve got to go now and risk it !” The bottom line is the Capt. is fully responsible for the safety of his passengers, if a wing Walker (who has a much better view of the situation) is giving advise not to push then you don’t push. I’ve had something similar to this happen to me at Amsterdam, some ATC controllers forget that although they are issuing instructions, they are not issuing orders to be obeyed at all cost.

[@linesided]

Pilots can't talk to wing walkers. They can only communicate with the tug driver. The tug driver will flash his lights at the WW to get their attention.

[@carnotan]

That's the mythical "Hey tower, I have a number for YOU to copy" message.

[@eduardoconde7213]

I came here to say that. ^^

[@TheEric1203]

Possible controller deviation

[@HalfShelli]

I came here to say that too 🤣

[@chuckycheese84]

should be a number for the unemployment office as well, on top of the one for FAA

[@phapnui]

A bit of role reversal with the phone numbers there.

[@wurdle]

It happens more than you think.

[@chofyam3466]

@@wurdle how often?

[@Hugothester]

Pilot: Can you give me the phone number? We need to make a call. ATC: **Visible confusion** Jokes aside, I believe both acted like kids. The taxi plane migh have gone too close to 3984, but the wing walkers did their job and nothing happened, and on the other side, the controller's "sigh" was intentionally made on the radio, that is not the way to go.

[@andrewjohan3856]

Ramp agent here, Envoy handled it exactly how he should have! ATC is the one that fucked up

[@mountains889]

Everyone has a bad day - but good to see ATC isn't perfect just like the rest of us

[@austinlawler3739]

@@mountains889 but a bad day with ATC can cause a collision. In this instance it was the controllers fault, and he wouldn't even acknowledged he messed up. Bad day or not, there was no excuse for how nonchalant he was, as well as his attitude.

[@hack1n8r]

I don't think the sigh was from ATC -- you can clearly hear the background chatter when ATC is speaking, and there is no ATC chatter when we hear the sigh at the 2:11 mark. In fact, another sigh happens at 2:22, clearly from the Envoy pilot -- both sighs sound like they're from the same person. The Envoy pilot was clearly annoyed, and had a bit of an attitude. He sounded young (in his twenties, perhaps?), and I'm willing to bet this was his first time departing from this airport. He most likely is not used to the extremely tight ground ops at this airport, and felt uncomfortable with the tightness -- which is perfectly fine... no pilot should do anything he or she deems as unsafe. The Envoy pilot's (apparent) lack of experience at this airport played a factor, and he should have simply stated to ATC that he's stopping due to the aircracraft behind him being too close. Like I said earlier, he sounds young, and as such lacks the decorum that only comes with experience. Despite Envoy's attitude, he did the right thing when decided to stop his push.

[@BitwiseMobile]

@@hack1n8r That was my analysis as well, although I did miss the detail surrounding the sigh. I think you are right and the video might have gotten it wrong. If that is the case that changes my thoughts and I place the entire blame on the pilot. Yes, the pilot's ultimate responsibility is safety, but he didn't have to make a big deal out of it. If he felt uncomfortable he can stop, wait for the other aircraft to taxi by, and continue his pushback. He made it the big deal that it was. Although I still think the other pilots chiming in was completely inappropriate and violated radio protocol.

[@robot_spider]

Pilot: "Possible deviation, I have number for you, please let me know when ready to copy..." ATC:

[@danbender2161]

Kudos to the 40+ year old that called Envoy a "Twat". Perfect...

[@GC-qe8vc]

If only Kennedy Steve had been the tower supervisor on this one... both of them would sitting in the corner, copying the following sentence 100 times: "I shall no longer behave unprofessionally nor will I overstep my duties".

[@Evan-ed7pu]

Tell me you're a youtube pilot, without telling me you're a youtube pilot! You made it too easy

[@GC-qe8vc]

@@Evan-ed7pu and proud to be one! Sure, I'm not a pilot, I am a member of the flying public. Which means that normally I should be freaking out by the unprofessionalism of what we sometimes hear on this and other channels, and by some comments of people who claim to be pilots or ATC (if we believe them, of course). But I don't, because this drama is not representative of the aviation industry as a whole (your line of work?). I can reassaure you that a healthy level of professionalism is required in my job and that... unprofessional behaviour on an open mic is punished! :)

[@gregson99]

I wonder if kennedy steve watches the youtube videos for entertainment still?

[@sarahalbers5555]

Lol!

[@MarcDufresneosorusrex]

I was referring this in my head; typically.. i don't know if it's routine but i've heard KS roll call all pilots to see if they're ready (my guess is to taxi). he was very proactive this way he didn't "want to" rush a crew to taxi; he asked all of them who was ready to go .. but you need a proactive and alert controler to do that .. must be very draining. I could be wrong about when he would choose to do this though because I am not there

[@Ces999919822]

I’ve been flying a long time and this is just one of those situations that you file in the unimportant box. Your wing walkers felt uncomfortable, tug stops, plane goes by, nothing happens, and life goes on. Really no need to make something out of nothing.

[@judgemarshall6127]

Totally agree.... Eventhough I'm a Brickyard driver. .. . Geeez! Pilots. 🤔👨🏽‍✈️✈

[@markg.4246]

Absolutely sir. Spent most of the last 20 years working the ramp. (MSP) The only thing that's routine, is to expect the unexpected.

[@byronhenry6518]

Agreed. I think the crew made the right decision to stop but didn’t need all the extra commentary. The controller didn’t need to keep egging them on to argue either. Good decision making, poor professionalism.

[@oldmanc2]

"Twat" - deliberately transmitted. No excuses. Very poor behaviour

[@bibinb.8688]

This happens all the time at O'hare. I wing walk for 737 but the ramp is mostly for CRJs. (Only 3 gates for bigger aircrafts) so I just stay directly under the 737 winglet not to get hit by the lower winged CRJs.

[@mikek5298]

You are the only person in the Comment section that actually has experience and can speak first-person. Thank you for a nice break from the Keyboard Commandos.

[@lisanadinebaker5179]

Babin B - dang that sounds like close quarters.

[@rebeccawoolfolk5377]

I've never heard of a wing walker before. I was picturing them standing on the wings, balancing like acrobats. I'm a little disappointed to hear you're under the wing. ;)

[@vbscript2]

@@rebeccawoolfolk5377 Wing walkers are the guys you'll see standing by each of your wings as the aircraft is pushing back from the gate any time you're flying on an airline. The pilots can't see behind the airplane at all and neither the pilots nor the tug driver has a good view of where the wingtips are with respect to everything else nearby - including other aircraft - so wing walkers walk beside the wingtips to make sure the wingtips aren't about to hit anything.

[@rebeccawoolfolk5377]

@@vbscript2 I actually haven't flown in over two decades. I like flying. I hate airports.

[@wsrlive]

It’s never a problem until you hear the crunch of metal.

[@Smiley1701]

I don't think Envoy was wrong for stopping, but the multiple calls about 'why was he so close to us?' were also unnecessary. They're taxiing by as instructed, if you feel it's unsafe you can stop and wait for them to pass, then keep going. I don't know why they made a big deal out of it

[@toast2610]

The ground controller started it with "Envy 3984, continue the taxi" when they stopped and the aircraft taxiing by weren't yet clear.

[@63076topher]

@@toast2610 He was not close a pilot who is told to LOOK OUT for a aircraft would not get too close to it. Wing walkers don't know what is going on with other planes.

[@hankchinaski_]

Exactly. Latch-key kid. Needs attention.

[@johnrocheleau9946]

@@63076topher I’m not sure how you know how close he was. As a pilot, you can “look out” all you want. But you have no control over the other guys’ plane. And we’re not driving sports cars. They don’t stop on a dime or maneuver quickly. Especially on the ground. Regardless of whether or not the other guy was told to “look out,” envoy did the right thing by stopping the operation in an uncertain situation. And you and I have NO idea how close they were. So we shouldn’t pretend to.

[@63076topher]

@@johnrocheleau9946 The pilot of the plane on the taxiway could see the one backing out the whole time.

[@ryancaldwell9463]

That’s the right way to do it, call and talk about it later. Don’t spend too much time arguing on the radio

[@MoMadNU]

When you're taxiing, controller saying "use caution" is code for "Remember, we don't control the ramp". So in hindsight, controller upon clearing the push for 3984, should have said "Be advised, reference aircraft passing behind you" since the clearance to the spot was a "when able".

[@dynodin81]

That ground controller was rude from the beginning - at the end of the day if something goes wrong it’s the Pilots fault, almost all of the time. It’s better to play it safe whenever you can.

[@Chorizo727]

No. I’ve been DCA based for more than 4 years and all the controllers are stellar. Envoy is a twat and we found them a nuisance when they started operating flights there a few years back.

[@JustRememberWhoYoureWorkingFor]

@@Chorizo727 Hi, how come your username is "chorizo"? Is that related to the Spanish food?

[@MichaelCarrPilot]

Told Envoy they’re 30 miles in trail behind the second CRJ. 😂😂😂

[@bobac1083]

That controller really needs to shut up. Ive wing walked in the past and as others have said, the only person who knows whats going on is the pushback driver. But still, safety is #1 and how the heck are we supposed to know whats going on if we cant hear ATC? Dont forget the hazards for us!!! Jetblast is the #1 hazard. I hate getting jetblasted. Its dangerous and annoying. Im blaming all that drama entirely on the ground controller. Enovy did nothing wrong.

[@VidClips858]

I always wondered how the whole deviation thing would work in reverse like that.

[@darrenhenderson3]

Ask for the facilities phone number and their initials

[@VisibilityFoggy]

Here's how it works: the pilot calls and complains, then nothing happens. Their phraseology alone would get most of these clowns canned in Europe.

[@morganghetti]

@@VisibilityFoggy what was the phraseology used when the European controller caused that mid air in Germany a while back?

[@jordanmorales8610]

@@VisibilityFoggy, controllers here work the most complex airspace system in the world with the most traffic and have a fantastic safety record, definitely not clowns. There are bad eggs, but if most controllers of US caliber got canned in Europe due to phraseology, that would be a major loss for European air travelers.

[@dood646]

@@jordanmorales8610 DCA controllers are fantastic. They're "bad phraseology" is part of what makes them fantastic and makes a great experience at that airport. They do wonders with their tight airspace as well.

[@imaPangolin]

The sigh on freq was intentional by the ground controller and extremely unprofessional. The persons with the best view were the wing walkers on the ground. That said - Envoy didn’t need to antagonize the controller. Wing walkers did their job.

[@flyjarrett]

Not sure how it can be determined that ground was the one who sighed.

[@tomato-v8x]

what? the controller didn’t sigh at all, the noise you heard came from the Envoy, judging based on his tone of voice. not sure if it was a sigh or not. (if you’re referring to 2:22)

[@imaPangolin]

@@flyjarrett volume. Character of transmission. Background sound. As a pilot it was pretty clear it was the ground controller.

[@imaPangolin]

@@tomato-v8x it’s captioned as ground and based on background squeal on the Envoy transmissions, volume etc it’s pretty clear it was ground.

[@dcviper985]

Not to mention the crack about being "thirty miles in trail"

[@pstrzel]

Pilot: "I'm very upset right now" ATC: "Cleared for take off"

[@xxmrrickxx]

3984 was being a little annoying but when the tower responded “you guys are working the taxiways” it was unprofessional. This creates an environment where people will start to risk safety to avoid dealing with the hostility.

[@hamsterminator]

2:50 you hear the other controllers in the tower say "No!" lol

[@lesliesmith719]

Maybe it was the captain

[@bobered4911]

imagine a grown ass man in the tower directing giant dangerous airplanes audibly sighing into comms because of safety reasons, seek help lad.

[@NicStage]

The walkers can (and should) stop the push back if they feel anything is unsafe. They aren't communicating with the tower. So I guess it sort of makes sense for the tower to tell 4800 to proceed and look out for 3984 pushing back, but tower shouldn't have been so incredulous about 3984 stopping its pushback. The walkers have the leeway and responsibility to do that. They don't know where 4800 is going or what it was told. But 3984 also didn't have to be quite as confrontational on the air either. They should have just asked tower what 4800 was doing, listened to the response, and carried on. No need to bicker on air. Just ask for a number if you want it.

[@perfsvn]

I think sometimes arguments like this can happen, it feels like in the end they were both quite professional despite the obvious tension. On the other hand the toxic pilots that keep intervening on the radio need to go do something else with their lives.

[@josephdale69]

It would have been so classic if he would have gave him Pizza Hut’s phone number.

[@User0000000000000004]

Yeah, that would have been... c l a s s i c

[@JimAllen-Persona]

I was thinking more along the line of 1800 EAT-SHIT but I guess that would inflame an already bad situation :-) Both parties kind of blew it here.

[@Moadeeb_]

And that kids,.. is how NOT to do it. 🤦‍♀️

[@Suburp212]

daaaaamn. some egos there.

[@jr13227]

Sounds like Envoy was right, but no need for the immaturity and unprofessional remarks from both the pilot and controller at the end.

[@gibmodinero8101]

If you worked at DCA you would totally understand. Ground is BEAST! Sometimes you gotta sigh on freq just to let it out🤣🤣

[@essel23fly]

Haha “the 75” what a dork!

[@toldt]

Yeah - since when is a little Embraer 175 a 75? I've always known that to be a Boeing 757.

[@allenbenjamin8709]

Well they have flow so they’re pretty much AA pilots.

[@twobigjets]

The ERJ-175 is also known as an E75.

[@essel23fly]

@@twobigjets no it’s not come on. Maybe on seatguru

[@twobigjets]

@@essel23fly Ummm no. 9 out of 10 commercial and GA pilots will tell you they don't call it an ERJ-175 or 175, it is a 75 to any pilot that flies into Executive or Regional airports, period. 757s are dead, no one calls a 757 a 75 anymore except freight pilots and even they are moving away from 757s.

[@bjrnchrstn]

Ego's are writing cheques their bodies can't cash.

[@simeon2851]

The last video showed how to be cordial and polite and treat others decently even when there is a disagreement. This one show how to do the opposite.

[@3rdandlong]

If that was Kennedy Steve, he'd be asking if that was a call for a pizza delivery.

[@rebelfrlfe]

Envoy is in the right though

[@dom3325]

How do you figure? Envoy is pushing in the alleyway which is a non movement area and not controlled by ATC. If the wingwalkers feel like the aircraft is too close in proximity with aircraft on the taxiway that’s controlled by ATC, then they can use their discretion to stop. Envoy making a big fuss about how close they were to ATC was unnecessary

[@Victor-ty6wy]

@@dom3325 The guy that controls the traffic in that taxiway also gives the push clearance, so if the pilots felt wronged and were looking for who's responsible for the spacing then the ground controller is their guy.

[@saranghaelove1]

@@Victor-ty6wy The controller's phraseology was sloppy. If it was a nonmovement area it would be "Push back your discretion, spot 9". They can't approve a push into the alleyway. If they were to push in a movement area, the controller would've had positive control and told the Brickyard or the Envoy to give way instead of "use caution". If the pilot's from Envoy felt wronged, they need to look at their wing walkers, not the ground controller.

[@NateLundquist]

Envoy was 100% in the right, in my opinion. If the Captain is uncomfortable with the current situation, it is not only his right, but his responsibility to stop the situation. He is responsible for the safety of his airplane and passengers, therefore he was completely justified. The attitude by ATC and the other pilots is wholly uncalled for. Bravo to the Envoy pilot for doing the absolute right thing.

[@-Wreckanize-]

It’s always on atc when planes don’t hit, but when they do, it’s on the pilot. Appreciate envoy from not just defaulting to authority and ensuring the safety of their plane.

[@anto687]

He doesn’t say “file a safety report” at the end, he says “sorry that safety is important to us”. Then there’s some strange interference that sounds like folks belittling the Envoy pilot.

[@63076topher]

As they should have he was acting like a child sighing twice like that.

[@63076topher]

@Evelyn 21 y.o - check my vidéó The controller NEVER sighed it was Envoy bolth times they were the same person and the second did NOT say Tower or ATC.

[@bostoncityofchampions6581]

Twat was the ONLY thing I understood in that whole conversation.

[@larsu-gx579]

The comms telling him to shut up sound like Ace Combat mission dialogue lmao

[@sparkypvp2167]

whoever said shut up definitely was not professional

[@LuisArgerich]

People have bad days, nothing happened. The pilot could have just said "sorry but we had to stop the push because our wing walkers felt unsafe, hope that doesn't disrupt your flow and thank you for trying to get us out quickly".

[@FactsMatter]

That would have sent a stronger message than all the attitude combined.

[@Shamdouh1]

We can see the difference between this and the toronto A380 conflict !

[@matthendricks9666]

Problems or discussions like this one only appear to happen in the US. I work as a captain for a major airline in Europe. When I became a co-pilot on longhaul a check-captain told me about that. He warned me that ATC in the USA acts cool , talks fast but makes a lot of shitty mistakes I won´t be seeing anywhere else. In this case ATC gave a shitty unprofessional answer to a legit question.

[@virginiaviola5097]

This 👍

[@brettwyman81]

In the non movement area, the aircraft is under the control of the wing walkers and push back tug operator.

[@Brigadelokcom]

Pilot: Give me a number, possible ATC deviation...

[@mattb.7464]

Pilots making a non-issue an issue. Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be an airline pilot.

[@mattb.7464]

@@jasoncarswell7458 yes.

[@dyr_glpsn4209]

It's a non issue until wingwalkers get hurt or paint is traded. Then comes all the crying.

[@FlightX101]

@@dyr_glpsn4209 Basically......its never an issue until people lose their jobs for a wing strike

[@mattb.7464]

@@jasoncarswell7458 perfect. You bag’m, I tag’m!

[@neo_thrillz1948]

I'm a ramp agent at MCO and I have stopped pushes more times then I can count. Our airsides ramp is uncontrolled so we have to be extra vigilant out there as we dont know what other planes are doing or what there intentions are. If I see something or if my wingwalkers throw up a X we stop immediately no questions asked. Theres been multiple times we were pushing and a aircraft comes in off the taxiway and cuts us off making me slam on the brakes. Alot of the pilots appreciate my crew and I being very safety oriented.

[@FrankyRZK]

I mean, the ones closer to the plane or even better, the ones who are in command of the plane should have the final say on anything, at least on the ground...if they feel unsafe they should stop regardless of what ATC says. Better safe than sorry, just like when United 1448 got lost sideways on an active runway in Providence and the next plane refused the take off clearance, avoiding a Tenerife 2.0.

[@eddie_alabama7997]

Now we flying the Twatty Skies 🤣

[@canofanger]

Controller intentionally put them 30 miles in trail of the next one. Was that really necessary, or just out of spite?

[@caspianmerlin6434]

Sounds like just out of spite.

[@adbryant217]

no, he was making a joke that there was plenty of space between him and the taxiing RJ

[@adbryant217]

@@caspianmerlin6434 no, he was making a joke that there was plenty of space between him and the taxiing RJ

[@Philth_E]

Ground- Envoy im gonna need you to... Envoy- Ground, Im gonna need a number to call ( Uno reverse card! )

[@MSRTA_Productions]

2:36 OH things gotten hot out there!

[@zachosborne6577]

“Shut up envoy”. Sounded like 747gear guy

[@poker_18rs92]

Why can't people just be professional? Why put yourselves in a position to get in trouble? I just don't get it....

[@TopShot501st]

Busy airport, an ATC controller is probably one of the most stressful jobs in the US it leaks through every now and then.

[@Heisenberg2A]

Tower, we're going to need you to copy a number when your ready.

[@Probowler37]

Sounded like something a JetBlue or Spirit pilot would do on a typical bad day. They will find something to argue about!

[@planesense7390]

i think the Envoy pilot had a bit of an attitude also

[@RedMatthew88]

Knowing exactly the ramp crew pushing back that Envoy flight I commend them on stopping the push. ATC was being an ass about the whole thing and the pilots were completely in the right siding with the pushback crew.

[@colesrk]

Good job Envoy pilot. Very professional.

[@aisle9]

"DC Ground, possible controller deviation, please advise when ready to provide a phone number."

[@arkzbh]

Watching aviation videos for a long long time, first time I heard a pilot asking for the dreadful number 😂 and the controller like "wait, what!! " 😂

[@kenwat100]

All of them in the Office: work the problem

[@BigfootBrass]

So Tony in the tower things that he can see better as to what's going on than Will the wing walker? Yeah I'm trusting my wing walker every time. His job to is assist me in making sure my aircraft doesn't strike ANYTHING. Tower was a douche. Every single person on an airfield has "STOP" authority, from a PIC, to an ATC, to a $15/hr wing walker. Safety is #1 always.

[@paulpietschinski3282]

There must be some ATC guys with a god complex....someone pisses him off....hey your third to take off now

[@sbuzzkill]

Every once in a while I fly with captains who get all worked up over stuff ATC says and argue over the radio. It’s embarrassing every time, because I’m the one originally talking to them and now I gotta get back on the radio after that unprofessional BS.

[@boahneelassmal]

absolutely, I just think that envoy just wanted to know if there was a reason for them being so close. Had ground just stated, yeah, from here I am it looked like it could fit with more than enough space to spare, but if it was too close for you and your ground crew's taste I understand" I'm pretty sure this would've been the end of the story. Maybe another advisory by ground during push "hey, the 175 may look quite close, but they're watching out for you" would've been helpful too. But if you don't know, what is happening and you have an aircraft quite close all of a sudden, then yea, you get a little cautious about it.

[@spelldaddy5386]

How rare is it for a pilot to request a phone number? It's almost like they want to get in trouble 😂

[@byronhenry6518]

ATC can get in trouble just as easily as a pilot. I’ve done it once where they had a 737 takeoff on a crossing runway while I was landing. (No LASHO clearance) Wasn’t a close call or anything but had we come in just a little faster it could have been. Asked for the phone number and controller initials. He misjudged how long the 737 would take to takeoff. He was sort of new at the job. I’ve also had a controller ask me to call the tower after I took a wrong turn on a taxiway and created a bit of confusion. (At night, signage was a bit confusing, didn’t read the chart correctly, totally my fault). In both situations, I had a respectable conversation with the guy about what happened. No biggie. We both filed our safety reports. All pilots and controllers can file safety reports on themselves and things they see and there’s no harm no foul. It’s encouraged to do so. If filing a report could get you in trouble, then nobody would file them. Nobody loses their license or their job for genuine, honest mistakes. Now If you’re acting with total negligence, that’s a different story.

[@AviationJeremy]

Ramp rat here: I’ve got to side with Envoy. If the crew or wing walkers see a conflict or safety issue, it is their job to do what they need to do to stay safe. The controller was wrong to tell them to keep pushing, and for criticizing them for stopping. He doesn’t have boots on the ground. He doesn’t have as good of a view of their specific situation as the flight and ground crew. Envoy may have carried on a little bit too much, but not nearly enough to warrant the unidentified pilots calling them a twat or to shut up, unless there was a good bit cut out.

[@Sports-Jorge]

1. The 3rd party pilots were unprofessional. Unfortunately you can’t know who they were without a lot of investigation. 2. ATC was very unprofessional and deserves a write up for it. 3. Envoy did ok. If the animation was accurate then they erred on the side of caution and then asked valid questions. I think their reaction to ATCs attitude was understandable. It be good to talk to ATCs supervisor.

[@clarkgriswold-zr5sb]

Typical 3rd party comments from a "professional" pilot beating down the little envoy pilot, just for being non mainline.

[@pjnj042]

What exactly does it mean to “take a ride on a tic tac”? The commercial asked why I didn’t, and I didn’t have a response….but I do feel mildly violated….

[@smithnyiu]

Asking for a number to copy was just the Pilot sticking up for his FO, who was working the COMs. Had to let him know he was doing the right thing, even though he might have done it differently.

[@BIOHAZARDXXXX]

@@gotacallfromvishal I think its a safe assumption that the captain asks tower for a number, not the FO.

[@Flyboyed]

Hopefully that wasn't Swayne having a bad day🤣

[@jakesimpson6365]

No one really in the wrong here, pilot was advised to use caution but made good decision to stop the push. Envoy asked nicely why so close and ATC had to be snotty with him. Unprofessional and I'm with Envoy but still pretty funny lol

[@jakesimpson6365]

And to the pilot that said "shut up Envoy" you're not all that lmao

[@SeligTiles]

Is the PIC responsible for what happens during pushback? I believe the FAA defines PIC responsibility when they start taxing under its own power. Either way, PIC authority comes with huge responsibility. I dont blame the crew for being concerned about separation distance. ATC’s number one priority is keeping aircraft apart from each other, but does that apply to GC and or ramp control?

[@emartinez2740]

Well they are pushing to the movement area (active taxiway) so ATC would be responsible for maintaining separation.

[@rockkitty100]

Envoy seems to made an issue out of nothing. The wing walker stopped the pushback, correctly, and they continued. What should had been a 2 minute delayed turned into more as both sides of the conversation went downhill from there. Busy airport, ATC trying to keep things moving and Envoy and the wing walker trying to keep things safe. Should had been a non-issue.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

At 1:05 he berates the pilot for stopping the pushback, and tells him to "keep moving" implying that it wasn't okay for him to stop the pushback. The controller made it an issue at that point.

[@lbe]

Hilarious 😂 Twat comment was gold

[@chaoacne]

Regular operations in DC. Nothing to see here. Envoy always making a big deal out of everything. The airplane wasn’t being pushed onto the taxiway. They are supposed to turn them into spot 9 which is the first spot in the ALLEY without entering the taxiway. Therefore, giving plenty of room for aircrafts on the taxiway, there was no threat at all. However, they stopped before they did the turn into the alley. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the captain who actually told them to stop since he was the one looking out directly into brickyard, not realizing that spot 9 was all the way inside the alley and not on the taxiway. If they would have turned Envoy into the alley spot 9, as In normal operations and not stopped like they did. Sounds like the captain was not situationally aware of his surroundings about where spot 9 actually is.Therefore, making it a huge deal out of nothing.

[@XU23]

Envoy pilot is definitely a riddle grad

[@bitsofgeek]

Looks like this is a new terminal at DCA, and I'm not going to fault the pilot and ground crew for being cautious. That said, the pilot's concern crossed the line when it became an argument on freq. Perhaps there is an issue with that gate and potential incursion onto the taxiway on pushback, but better to ask for a number or file a safety report so it can be looked at. Arguing on freq does nothing but distract everyone involved from their jobs.

[@HalfShelli]

The controller did kinda start the pissing match with the ludicrous sigh on frequency. Not that there should’ve even *been* a pissing match , but there ya have it.

[@CrossRdNorth]

It makes sense now. I was trying to figure out who is meowing on guard and found a candidate.

[@zeinnaja]

Isn’t that why wing walkers are out there? For safety for pushback and arriving at the gate?

[@scottbarrow4911]

100% when I worked ramp, until that tug is cleared, and I release the aircraft with a salute, that plane belonged to me, and anything that happened to it before that was on me.

[@Pendarr7]

I didn't hear a nasty argument. It sounded like a Tuesday.

[@rdc5551]

Envoy made a safety decision. Right or wrong doesn’t matter. Butt hurt controller pushed them to the back of the line for challenging his authority. Not the way things are meant to work.

[@boby8161]

He wasn’t cleared into the taxiway.

[@redraider2l7]

“The 75”? What a tool.

[@MrUandB]

Blue streak is PSA btw, not Republic

[@DimSimSam]

Wow 😮 A pilot male Karen!

[@jasonvincent1818]

The point is, the pilot asked "why were they so close"....and he told them, had they kept pushing, it would not have been.......He should have just stated that the wing walkers said it was unsafe and left it at that, but he makes a snarky series of statements, which gets him ridiculed and takes up time, which makes him at the back of the line because all the other pilots are going to the runways. If you are a pilot and think that ATC was making unsafe, then just shut up and file the report. Easy as that. Not about who is right or wrong, it's about being professional.