Why You Should Not Buy A S65 BMW M3 E90 E92 E93

Why You Should Not Buy A BMW M3 E90 E92 E93
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[@andrewrossnagel9433]

Owned multiple e92 M3s over the last 7 years. They are by far my favorite and I will always own one until I can't drive anymore.

[@corkscrewlifestyle]

The E92 M3 is a german muscle car. First car I rode in around Laguna Seca Raceway with my friend. That S65 sounds amazing when revving at 8k rpm. I remember my friend revving it out on the track and what a beauty that thing was. Worth the money if you got the money to spend.

[@dexterhgonzalez3405]

You my man , don’t know anything about s65 m3 ,that’s it .

[@Dutch79]

The E9x M3 is something like 80% different for the non-M E9x! How can you say only the fenders and the bump in the hood is different.....

[@kyledunct4124]

I was thinking the same thing haha

[@jamespark9310]

I just traded my 07 328i for a 08 M3 on Monday. Completely different car.

[@vtecboi18]

@@jamespark9310 just curious how much did they give you for it?

[@jamespark9310]

@@vtecboi18 tbh my 328i was complete trash. They gave me $1200 for it and I knew the dealer. But a good shape 328i would probably be around $2500

[@vtecboi18]

@@jamespark9310 damn I have a 335i but the miles are high

[@fastboatster]

I think they are past the bottom depreciation already

[@2doorcris_e469]

Bought my e92 m3 a year ago don’t think ima get rid of it any time soon way to much fun

[@ekological]

It's a great car. Enjoy it!

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

This video wasnt to slam m3's it was just a warning not to buy them until they have depreciated all the way, unless a person wants to lose money

[@gt1r]

Nathans BMW Workshop who’s to say the E9x M3 is just holding its value a lot better than the E46, and E36 M3 did. BAT auction results support that argument. What evidence do you have to show that supports yours, besides speculation?

[@andrewlopez314]

@@gt1r but bring a trailer is a fairly recent platform, it's not a apple's to apples comparison. When I bought my E46 M3 back in 09 they were only a few years old and were priced similarly as E9x generation M3s. They will still be depreciating for a years more still and then level off.

[@gt1r]

Samuel Clemens bring a trailer was founded in 07’, and has auction results for M3s of every generation dating back to 15’. In 2015, around 10 years after the E46 M3 ended production, you could pickup a great example of an E46 M3 for $20,000. By great I mean low mileage, good ownership history, favorable color, etc. We are approaching 2021, which marks 10 years since the E90 M3 went out of production. A great example of an E90 M3 will cost you fairly deep into the $30s. We are seeing a trend across all platforms that the values of naturally aspirated M3s are exponentially going up in value, and I would argue a raising tide lifts all boats; in a sense that the E92/E90 have a less strap depreciation curve than the generations it preceded. The E9x was the last generation where navigation, or a screen was optional. It was the last generation M3 to have hydraulic steering, the last M3 to have a naturally aspirated engine (a Motorsport derived V8 for that matter), the list goes on. People understand that, and thus the market for these cars have continued to stay vibrant.

[@buildindian8169]

Just buy what you enjoy..I have an F80 M3 and is now looking to buy E30...for me it’s just fun and I enjoy working on them. If you are trying to make it look logical to buy a used car it will never pencil out, just does not make economic sense but it certainly makes sense to enjoy life to the fullest..

[@geemanbmw]

Build Indian... nicely said 👍🏻

[@patrickcoakley1328]

Can't even get the production years or horsepower right. And then refers to DCT 'problems'. What type of problems? He should prepare for 5 minutes before giving us his 'opinions'.

[@fastboatster]

As for the dct, these are surprisingly cheap on the used market and a lot more dependable than Audi units. E90 DCT clutches can be bought separately including upgraded units (deka clutch), oil pump etc

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

Yes they are very cheap compared to other manufactures

[@dho]

well, this was a really informed opinion but it didn't seem like it aged too well haha. the e92 m3 really caught on recently and i'm sure you know that prices are through the roof. I had a lot of trouble procuring a half decent one for a good deal. the e60 was a steal for a minute and still is on occasion since the market is so niche both for buyers and sellers. it's a bit more of a boat and you'd never find one at a track (you may see one, or two, for every 50 or so e92 m3's on a given track day) and it's just a much smaller community. that really does not work in your favor unless you're a great mechanic, and I think you would qualify. it's not a layman's DIY car. the e9x m3 is definitely already pushing it for DIY work. all the 3 series m cars have really skyrocketed in price, and for good reason. it's an iconic car, and I think for a while people were just overlooking the beauty of m cars in fear of reliability issues. now that we can't get these kinds of motors and cars anymore, people are starting to appreciate these cars again.

[@chadriddle3517]

Good video Nathan! Good advice

[@akorepanov]

I recently bought a 1999 E36 328i M-Sport wth 189,000 miles and the car is doing great engine revving all the way up and it is catching a lot of attention

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

I think this is very good advice. If you cannot or do not want to work on your own car then go and buy an approved used car with a BMW based warranty that can be extended for as long as you keep the car. Out of warranty, these cars are an absolute nightmare. It's not just the case of finding the lowest mileage "best car" that passes every check and assuming it will never go wrong. A specialest BMW repairer may help you however in my experience most of these shops have a taste for money like the dealerships do and will only save you a little when you take into account that the dealerships will often repair things under a "good will"

[@Kiwittgmail]

I am happy with the E90 330i M-sport with the N52B30. I call it my M330i

[@anoncanon1100]

I had been paying for one when this video came out, it was low already by the time this video was posted. Maybe it can get lower but I doubt it because prices are back up

[@mannym1248]

I think you should get one and do a build on it and then post one of those videos of building an M3 in 12 minutes. You would gain alot nore followers with your extensive BMW knowledge. I just bought an 09 328i 6spd manual and love it to pieces but it does need a new oil pan seal and some suspension work it has the sport package and is pretty fast for what it is.

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

lol yes im not sure who would click on a video like that but who am i to judge i guess , it seemed to work for other youtubers

[@thooke222]

I've had my fill of old (90's) bmws. They're not expensive to own because of extremely high parts prices (with some exceptions) , it's the sheer quantity of things that go wrong! Oil leaks, coolant leaks, broken window regulators, pixels out, ASC, convertible top, ABS, broken strut mount, vacuum leak, bad pcv valve.... Not a complete list... you get the point So when I sell my e36 M3 this week I may not get another BMW for a long time.

[@xcofcd]

If it's a euro M3 and in good condition I wouldn't sell it yet if you don't absolutely need the money...

[@startingtech3900]

Dont leave if you do we dont want you back! Haha jk bro goodluck

[@ahoneyman]

Don't enter the budget WRX world my friend. Bubba's got a Sawzall, zip ties, and electrical tape and he is ready to roll son.

[@thooke222]

@@xcofcd not euro... would def hold on to that

[@Genesislights]

E9XM3 price is starting to go up I think. Been following it for 2 years now. It’s getting harder to find what u want especially for E90. Next to bottom out is 1 series.

[@gt1r]

Exactly. Cars are regularly selling for $30k+ even 10-11 years after production has ended, and those are cars with 50-60k miles - not exactly garage queens. In 2015/2016 (10-11 years after production ended for E46 M3s) you could pickup a pretty amazing E46 M3 for $20k. I don’t think the issue is that E9x M3s haven’t hit their bottom yet, I just think they’re holding their value a lot better than the M3s that came prior to it. Many are selling their F80 M3s to get into E90/92 M3s

[@unrealmagic6519]

@@gt1r its not surprising that the price is over 30k tho, its still an M3 which means its always gonna hold its value

[@nicolecherry3348]

What about the 328s and 335 daily drivers?

[@898orion]

Can't you get a 335i DCT and swap the internals. its only the bell housing that's different on the M3.

[@rawsick]

Hey Nathan, please give me some advice. I just bought a 08 535i e60 for $6000 the car runs great and all electronics working fine but do you think for 6k I picked a good bmw?

[@benjaminjeanbaptiste4548]

This video was definitely put up for views and comments. Buy what you want when you want to if you can afford. You can make this a same argument for any m3 ever made. Invalid points all over. Ive seen rare e9x m3s going into the 40s. Your price ranges are very off. Of course if you add 150 whp to a car the transmission would need upgrades to hold it. Then talking about the interior of an e90 like if you wait 5 years it will magically look better. The interior in the old 911s are trash but people still want them. You are buying an experience and you cant put a set price on that.

[@donsmoke8926]

diffrent way to look at all cars now

[@GeorgeAusters]

E90 looks much nicer than e92 in my opinion

[@startingtech3900]

You look like ricky from trailer park bois w those chops. Nice bro congrats on the silver yt plaque isnt it crazy m539 already got his after like 4 months of serious videos

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

I applied a couple weeks ago for it, you gotta stay on them they won’t give up that plaque easily lol , some people get really lucky and get several big videos in a row and get it right away , youtube has had a choke hold on my channel since the rona started in March , hope it ends soon , 1600 vids starting tomorrow so stay tuned

[@startingtech3900]

Nathans BMW Workshop for sure will do! I only have two e46 single garage two tool boxes minor scanners etc but you give me hope for the future and motivation. You can see my two cheap e46 on my channel I’m saving up. I work mon-Friday at a shop as a lubie tire guy but I do a lot more work on my own than that so I’m hoping I can move up. Thanks for all the work you’ve done. I know in the beginning you did it just bc it’s what you loved to do. Hope it’s paying off soon. Glad you pressed um and got your plaque well deserved! Been watching every vid!

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

Thanks and I’m sure you will get where you want to be soon enough

[@startingtech3900]

Nathans BMW Workshop flagged 84 hours this week man. Working my ass off. what did you do to secure your house/garage property? Are you a mechanic ?

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

Mine is all youtube revenue , it is still possible but getting harder and harder

[@UpstateN8]

Most unique and fun car you can get for the price range

[@slawo328]

2007-2013 please educate yourself next time...

[@BobbyBasketballl]

3 years later, bad E9X 20-25k and decent 35-40k... I owned mine since 2017 and got it for 25k, definitely paid way too much but I was naive and I'll admit that. Buying a car like this on a loan is stupid idea unless you are in it for the long haul like I was. Don't ever plan to sell my car and hope my kid will enjoy it 20 years from now.

[@mthusiastmedia9782]

I hear what you're saying. I actually kind of agree but not for any reason you said. We've hit a price bubble and this entire generation of M3s has gone up 8% this year so right now doesn't seem to be the right time and I'll explain. I cant seem to back any of what you said with numbers though. You can do a price trend search on car gurus. If I was a serious investor or collector, I'd compile my own raw numbers but their price trend tool is very convenient. Looks like that downward momentum on ALL E9X M3s stopped in April and they have been on the upswing. COVID's impact on the used market did impact that to be fair. Also the average price for 08s never dropped below 20K. Im sure there are some one off beaters out there but im not buying an M3 I expect to hold value from Facebook and put a transmission in it or rebuild the engine accessories. That would be race car build territory, not an actual decent car. Then selling it, im not putting it in a place where someone would expect a 13K offer to be entertained. It is a specific car. This isn't a 335 thats selling like civics (calm down N54 guys, I own one of those too). As for offering someone 13-15k for an "OK one" I just don't see it. Nationwide right now out of the 212 for sale, from just one site, only 26 are under 20k. Most of those are verts, and all of them are either 08s, high mileage, salvage titles, and mostly a combination of all of that. I say the ok deals are between 22-29k. In a year or two when/if you want to sell, why wouldn't you get close to that. 08 values are actually up 8% YTD (again COVID effect on used car markets). On the other end of the spectrum 13s are up almost 5% YTD and 8% over the last 90 days. I don't think waiting to bottom out is the right phrase. According to numbers, they bottomed out in April. Prior to April, 08 AND 09 models average price only fluctuated less than $1k from April 19 to April 20 and both years stayed within 1K of the same price. 13 models' average price fluctuated around $2k during the same time frame. I say thats acceptable depreciation BUT here's the kicker. The current average prices for all years is at the same price they were selling for around December 2018. Seems like a few months ago was the time to buy OR wait until post COVID to see if there's a used car market correction or if they will keep climbing in price. Another thing I see happening is people starting to buy these instead of E46s because 1) they anticipate them becoming just as desirable 2) they are often in the same price range or cheaper than comparable condition E46s 3) I think they are easier to live with daily than the E46 M3. More bang for the buck if you're not driving all out everyday. I love my E46 M3 to death but it gets expensive racking up miles but so much fun.

[@boost.m240]

This aged very well

[@blakekennedy6680]

This did not age very well with how prices have been lately 😭

[@sheldonm3535]

Dct is a great transmission, it’s very strong. It’s not SMG. The E9x M3 is 80% diff than a non M per BMW. I do recommend doing service for the DCT. Fluid is not lifetime. If the cars are taken care of they can go for a lot of miles 200k+. Ppl buy these cars for 15k and try to do Honda Accord 15k maintenance on it. No it is still a 60-75k car originally. It needs to be taken care of that way. Do your Rod Bearings. You don’t buy an M3 for interior.

[@ekological]

Though the novillo leather is leagues better than the nasty dakota crap that came in standard 3 series cars =D

[@ekological]

Cars are not an investment unless you're talking Ferrari F40, Enzo, Porsche CGT, etc. The longer you wait, the more miles, the more beat to shit, the more difficult it is to find a nice one. Also, you can't put a price on the smiles a car will bring you if you have one now, in good condition, lower miles, etc. Sure, I bought a ''02 M5 w/ 90k miles in '09 for $19k, it's my beater and I've driven the snot out of it (it has 191k miles on it now). Was it a garage queen or concours winner? Hell no, but I didn't go into it with that mindset. I can also sell it now and hopefully get > $10k...so $9k in 11 years and I got to drive the snot out of it and blow the doors off of most cars on the road? I'll take that any day of the week. I bought a '11 M3 w/32k miles and the $5k fire orange special paint in '15 for $45k. I even proceeded to drop in a $20k 4.4L stroker. Has it lost money? Most definitely. Was it in better condition than the M5 when I first got it? Miles better! Has it put a smile on my face? You bet your ass it does every time. I picked up a '16 X5M w/ 25k miles on it last year for $60k (original MSRP $115k). Will that lose money? Without a doubt! It's a tradeoff. Sure, I could have waited many more years before the F85 X5M comes down to the $20k - $30k range. But what will the condition of the car be by that point? How many miles?

[@geemanbmw]

Love it!!! Yep

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

Buying the right cars at the right tie can make alot of money, but modifying cars will always lose money, remember i use to sell cars for a living , not for a dealer but for myself

[@ekological]

@@NathansBMWWorkshop I only mentioned my stroker mod to support my argument that you derive a certain level of joy by owning a car. It's different if you're selling cars for a living as you use your knowledge to identify good deals and flip the cars for a profit. You're not necessarily looking for a specific configuration (exterior/interior color, options, etc) and you generally don't hold onto the cars for very long as that's just tied up money. There is also something to be said with spending your time looking for the car you want in the configuration you want. The e90/2 m3 is the last of the naturally aspirated M3s and the only one to come with a V8. I doubt a pristine, low mileage, 6MT, carbon roof in a rarer color (sorry white, black, and probably silver) will ever dip below $25 - 30k. Sure, put a lot of miles on it, then the value of the car drops, but that's the case with all cars, but you also received something for putting those miles (hopefully carving up roads and smiling and not mindlessly piling on commuting miles).

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

The best way to buy one is for sure with a issue that you are ok fixing , where the rest of the car is good condition, I spent many night with the car hauler hooked up and cash in hand ready to roll out at moments notice, that is how I got several vintage 911’s , but as I got older I just fell out of the desire to sell things and deal with people coming to my house , I’m looking at a car right now that I won’t get the money back out of but I really want it , so I can understand that part of it for sure

[@SSKiLLARECORDS]

Traded my x5 for a 2005 Jetta what your take on Jettas

[@leonchen89]

That’s hell of a downgrade. What engine Jetta ? I own a 2004 Audi A4 1.8T. The 1.8t is a good reliable engine.

[@TheLogitech91]

I've never heard of any major issues with the e9x M3 DCT. There are too many wrecked M3 out there where you couldn't find a DCT for cheap.

[@richatkinson989]

Providing they don't run low on fluid they are bulletproof, he's talking bollocks...

[@gt1r]

DCT is near bullet proof, I don’t understand what “transmission problems” you’re referring to. Dozens are running 700+whp on DCT with little to no issues. Every car depreciates, I also don’t understand that aspect of your argument as well. That could be said for literally 98% of the cars sold on the market today. It’s pretty unreasonable to except to make money on any car...even so, I guarantee you that if you spend $30,000 on a low mileage, clean E90/92 that’s been well taken care of, and continue to take care of it, you won’t loose any money. Look at where E46, E36, and E30 M3 values are at. Judging by that E9x’s are at the near bottom of their depreciation curves. You would struggle to find a clean, low mileage, 6mt E46 M3 for under $30,000 today, and the same could be said for an E36. Seems like this video was made for clicks, and nothing else. The arguments seem quickly cobbled together, and don’t hold much weight.

[@rhiantaylor3446]

Nathan generally manages to sell for what he has put into his cars (or more) which requires some skill and careful buying. Here he is warning about some specific fairly recent M cars that will lose you money when you might have thought they were shrewd purchases. He did not include the E46 M3 or the E39 M5 in this list, presumably because he still sees these as (potentially) a good buy.

[@divimport2]

Purposely contrarian to actual S65 ownership to appeal to non-owners looking for some confirmation bias about how the E9X isn’t a good buy. Hilarious proposition. Let’s fact check the guy; 1) DCT is hilariously reliable - and used components are actually cheap. The worst thing that’ll happen is DCT oil pan leakage - easily fixed with an aluminum pan, under 1,000$. The E9X DCT is the same unit as the 458 Italia - not Porsches. 2) The E9X is the last M3 you can get without a nav, aka the “single bump” - it’s a better interior than the E60, and is aging much better. 3) A little bump in the hood and fenders? Do I even need to address this 😅 - the E9X shares only the doors and boot with the regular E9X series cars. 4) You will never find an E9X for 10K - it’ll be a 2008 craptastic - junkyark realm car. You’re essentially arguing a scenario that doesn’t exit - fear mongering, Trump’ism for cars. You’re going to have this entire conversation and not discuss rod bearings? The truly, and only catastrophic caveat to the S65? The S65 was a “good” engine - that’s underselling it - it won countless engine of the year awards and its block remains the basis for numerous race engines. The P65 flat plane race engine was so damn reliable, the replacement versions they built for race cars were never used and are now finding their ways to street cars via Steve Dinan.

[@divimport2]

@e_millimill how’s that iphone 3 like CCC idrive and gameboy headsup display treating you? 😂

[@divimport2]

@e_millimill exactly, because the interior and tech is craptastic from factory. Single hump E9X M3 > any E60 M5

[@divimport2]

@e_millimill aww, yes, the E9X was produced in 2020 now 😂 Cool story bro.

[@machtschnell7452]

Porsche PDK is made by ZF, BMW DCT is made by Getrag.

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

Like i said in the video ,google said they were the same but that wasnt exactly confirmed

[@atx-cvpi_99]

Which is the same company that made the crappy Ford Focus and Fiesta with the DCT.

[@anoncanon1100]

find me one for $10,000-$11,000 cuz I can do the work myself

[@Sb99992]

They're still falling the rod bearings are a problem for sure and it's big money to fix. Roof leaks on the e93 can be a nightmare. You can see why the E46 is appreciating so much in comparison with the bullet proof 6 cylinder. Vert's roof in the E46 way simpler too.

[@divimport2]

You cannot make the argument for E46’s reliability and maintenance regimen over the E9X. Cloth roofs are wack anyways. The E46s are not appreciating against the E9X - they’re just good cars on their own rights. The E9X remains the more valuable, more reliable, higher performance platform while retaining all the M magic. You shouldn’t look at EAG’s price list for mint E9X - it’s going to hurt

[@Sb99992]

@@divimport2 Mint E46 went for $90k on BAT last august wasn't even a CSL. E9x not going anywhere near that E9x still depreciating won't start appreciating for another 5 years. Cloth roof simpler to maintain than folding metal and weighs way less. Every S65 v8 going to need rod bearings at some point. They just don't make them like they used to. Don't get me wrong, I love all BMW M3s but they peaked at the E46.

[@divimport2]

@@Sb99992 there were no CSL in the US - have you even looked at GTS pricing in Europe? They sell for 200,000 euros. CSLs are 80,000 euros. Mint E92 LRP are already selling for 80-90K at EAG. You’re talking non sense. The E92 M3 is an improvement over the E46 in every single area ; more power & torque, lighter engine, higher red line, much better transmission, stock CF roof, and much more reliable. Every single S54 will need vanos preventive maintenance or you risk catastrophic failure. Every single E46 will need it’s subframe changed or reinforced as it will fail. Every single E46 needs it RTAB replaced at barely 60,000 miles. Every single S54 also needs rod bearings - did you forget BMW recalled the S54 specifically for rod bearing issues? BMW M cars have been chewing these up for decades - such is the price to play on high revving engines. Every single S54 requires outrageous engine maintenance including valve adjustments (not needed on the S65).

[@Sb99992]

@@divimport2 The e46 M3 CSL was $80k car when new, now goes for > $110k. The M3 GTS was >$150k when new and had a production run of only 150 - less than 1/4 of the M3 CSLs that were made. You're comparing apples to oranges. The much better comparison to the E90 M3 GTS is the E46 M3 GTR which currently goes for over $500k if you can find one, which you can't E46 is way more reliable no matter how you slice it. The S54 will happily go past 100k miles without missing a beat whereas S65 needs those rod bearings in as little as 30k miles - just check the forums for the horror stories. Oh and fuel economy is terrible for the v8. E46 prices are on the way up, scarcity and age driving it. BAT pricing way more telling as its auction based and you know what the market is doing by watching averages. E9x just not there yet still on the downward curve, plus the aforesaid reliability issues with the engine cost megabucks. Agree to disagree with you as you are obviously a fellow BMW enthusiast.

[@divimport2]

@@Sb99992 I've owned both E46 & E92s. You're absolutely day dreaming on E46s being more reliable than E92s. The E46 can be sent to the junkyard through 3 widespread and common issues; vanos tabs, rod bearing and cracked subframes. New vanos kit: 1,800$ for parts New rod bearings: 2,000$ parts & labor Subframe: 1,500$ if you catch it early, 5,000$ if it's cracked I'm not even discussing the SMG yet, which is the worst transmission ever built by BMW. SMG pump is now 3,800$ in parts only. Want to run this with the S65? The only catastrophic failure: Rod bearings: 2,500$ parts & labor Non catastrophic, inevitable repair: Throttle Actuators: 900$ for lifetime warranty parts That's it - nothing else breaks on the E9X M3. A big if: DCT pan: 750$ I'm not even going to bother on fuel costs. If you're buying a 10, 20 year old sports car and budgeting for fuel, buy a 340i with a warranty. You still want to argue this? The E9X M3 is MUCH faster than the E46, and a much more reliable car.

[@user-qc6zm3sw4t]

*2008 to 2013*

[@geemanbmw]

Says all that about the engine and then says not a bad engine lol

[@mikimiki195]

Financial adviser wouldn’t understand Financial adviser is driving Ford Fiesta with NO A/C

[@anthonyariza8215]

Talk about the z3 coupe clown shoe

[@jz497]

Doesn’t sound like he knows what he’s talking about.

[@timocrosby]

How do you make any money when you're making videos all day?

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

I make videos for a living Tim

[@seanpaul3050]

Lol

[@timocrosby]

Really? That sounds awesome. But how do they make you money? I'm not being a smart ass I'm just really curious how that works.

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

Tim Crosby we all get paid by ads just like a tv show does

[@timocrosby]

@@NathansBMWWorkshop nice!!! 👍

[@mikimiki195]

👍🏻

[@roymoorman5990]

Nothing you say makes sense to me. You start by making a statement, then trying to provide argumentation but halfway while doing so you start about another subject. Maybe keep to a script or edit your videos to remove irrelevant talk.

[@anthonyk5031]

L. O. L. The periods were intentional.

[@yusifamda]

you guys luv bad mouthing bmws, yet keep buying them lmbo. every car has its flaws, if you want a bulletproof car, get a 1999 camry or landrover defender

[@vtecboi18]

Stop your breaking My heart :( :(

[@chrisd5610]

first. why do people say that? :D

[@theurbanegentleman4550]

You’re just salty you don’t have the M3 ;)

[@NathansBMWWorkshop]

I have the faster M5

[@DuaneMoore]

Spit that good knowledge . If it hurts it’s probably true. My prom queen (e60 M5 ) is a constant reminder that bmw At some point in the past , sold its soul to the devil, for car sales, what a glorious money pit ( also a good movie)