Near Miss Over Boston (ATC Recording)

[@TheJetJock]

I agree, TCAS would go nuts, and the AA pilot would report a TCAS near miss. Great recording though.

[@northernstar1964]

"Visual Separation" for 2 jets within the control of Boston ATC is an accident waiting to happen. Lots going on in both cockpits in a high density control area. As soon as I heard "maintain visual separation" I was concerned. AA should have voiced concern to the ATC. ATC was making his workload lighter but adding to everyone's risk

[@navin3419]

Christopher Smith well in busy airspace the only way to keep things moving is to do visual separation. If you have to wait for 3 miles for every plane, especially the airlines that know what there doing and all have procedures already mapped out to follow, visual separation just makes the controllers job easier.

[@SP-qo1so]

The lear offered up visual separation.... nobody is complaining

[@pammiller244]

Daniel, thanks for all your postings.

[@davidsmith5775]

Meanwhile AA assumes an incorrect clearance to heading... NEXT!

[@NHKevin]

Everything was done by the book. This was not a near miss. The AAL pilot was out of line. (in my personal opinion)

[@Hallands.]

NHKevin Yes, and he sounded somehow off, cross and unwell right from the beginning

[@teslation]

ok im not picking sides here, but the American airline said the learjet passed 300ft below them which i think doesnt make any sense. why? first of all where is the TCAS to begin with? and ok do u realize that 300ft is not that big space u know right ? so if that american airline have seen an airplane passing them below or above they would have gone crazy and i mean literally crazy. so bottom line i think the american airline is exaggerating a little bit, he could have passed him by 800ft or 1000ft atleast but 300ft? no way man. Either way i dont think the ATC is gonna care that much for the report post the arrival because they know it is not an intentional mistake. im just sayin :)

[@charlie93cr]

completely agree with you. as a matter of fact both of them would've gotten TCAS warning to climb and descend respectively i presume.

[@pubudusenanayake6724]

Dafuq is an intentional mistake?

[@KDill29]

@@pubudusenanayake6724 what the fuck is dafuq?

[@wjatube]

[Stretching] "Ahhh, okay boys. I need a break. I've got to go to the bathroom. You two watch out for each other. Toodles."

[@nickkerr5714]

I’m not a pilot, but calling “bogus” seems extremely retrained given the gravity of the situation

[@PalKrammer]

Too bad there are no dashcams for this.

[@jameshatfield8410]

Don't understand why the controller would risk this? What's stopping the controller changing flight path of one very slightly, so this scenario couldn't happen

[@alexkoble9303]

James Hatfield they're on set paths vectors for specific paths. Visual is the easiest way to keep them deprecated

[@tvideo1189]

Visual separation is used all the time in these situations. The AA pilots seemed a bit miffed. And wrong. Their claimed "near miss" distance of 300 feet would trigger TCAS

[@heyyou1198]

Why is it a 603 phone number if they're in Boston? Was that a private number? Sorry to ask the stupid question, I'm new to this.

[@nunziodimillo]

+Hey You Boston Approach Control is located in NH

[@rogerdean5313]

Hey You, they are located in Nashua NH... About a mile from me..

[@carreviewer6345]

You mean a near hit a near miss is when 2 planes collide

[@GreaterThanADeer]

You can hear the controller trying to cover his own ass. "he had visual and crossed 1,000ft below you" which essentially takes all the blame off the ATC and puts it on the pilot

[@planepirate]

+GreaterThanADeer well as soon as he hears that both aircraft have a visual on each other using visual separation is completely legal. Even if he wasn't 1,000 that would no way be on the controller because he has handed over control of that situation to the pilot. The problem comes if the lear pilot did something unsafe by getting too close to American. He probably was just making sure as much of the story as possible was clear as far as he knew to the American pilot.

[@CharlesReiche]

Altimetry error?

[@MichaelCarrPilot]

At these altitudes that's a very real possibility but there should have been communications with DEP and AAL818 and 141 about what altitudes they were at. The controllers would have already verified altitudes which would verify altimeter settings. You'd think.

[@bryanteverson4071]

That's why almost all my captains say to never advise aiecraft in sight even if it is. By saying insight, you are taking on seperation. Leave it to the controller and back yourself up.

[@GPSjammer]

Your captains are dumb. They can always unable visual separation if they're uncomfortable with the instruction

[@acoptis]

TCAS WOULD have shown the Lear's actual distance. and with the words "in sight", and "maintain visual", where in lies the problem?

[@davidhoffman5789]

Andrea Stoyko, The Lear still needed to keep required lateral and vertical separation.

[@zacharywaddell2340]

David Hoffman Define vertical and lateral separation. Maintaining visual separation means not hitting the other aircraft and staying clear of wake turbulence. That report more than likely carried no gravity. Besides, these AMR pilots are so damn touchy and dramatic.

[@davidhoffman5789]

Zachary Waddell, 300 meters(1,000 feet) or 150 meters(500 feet) vertical separation, depending on the situation. The horizontal separation is much more vague. 3 NM in some situations, 5 NM in other situations, and as you stated: Please do not hit the other aircraft. The pilots I know have told me that they always try to keep the vertical separation. They say, to them, it is more obvious to other pilots that they are not on a collision course if they do that. Maybe its just the pilots I know. Perhaps others are more comfortable using lateral distance.

[@keben2982]

+David Hoffman Visual sep is visual sep, they just cant touch paint.

[@zacharywaddell2340]

David Hoffman No. Those are required IFR separation distances for aircraft that you defined. Again, visual separation is not hitting the other aircraft and maintaining safe distance.

[@breadandcircus1]

They almost got killed by a lunatic piloting a plane