Pinnacle Airlines Jet Blows Tires on Takeoff and makes Emergency Landing (ATC)

On August 13th, 2012, a Pinnacle Airlines CRJ-900 operating flight 3285 from Boston to Kansas City on behalf of Delta Airlines blew both tires on the right main landing gear during takeoff. The pilots elected to make an emergency landing at JFK.
I have merged several air traffic control clips from Boston Tower, Boston Departure, Providence Approach, New York Approach and New York Tower: I have also edited them for length.
Recordings from Liveatc.net

[@stuffstuff2558]

I was on this flight and just found this video. Interesting to hear the communications and learn more of the detail of what happened. Would be interesting to hear communications through landing and on the ground. The landing was very gradual and super smooth despite only having wheels and no tires on the right side. The pilots and flight attendants said this was there first emergency landing other than training. As we were circling around over Boston when they were trying to figure out what to do, i was doing a lot of praying I had decided I was going to start minimizing my work travel (that didn’t last). Eventually they told us they were going to land at JFK because of better facilities, which from this video sounds like it was runway length and wind conditions. Everyone on board was super quiet most of the flight, but virtually everyone got on another flight at JFK to continue onto KC. We figured what were the odds of having issues on two flights in a row. During the flight to New York the flight attendants went through crash landing instructions that tell you there could be multiple impacts, then the pilots would come on the loud speaker and say that they thought everything would be okay. One theory of the cause of flats is that some people had heard a loud noise during taxiing and thought perhaps one tire had blown before take off and the second blew during take off. Similar to some comments here, we also were originally wondering why we didn’t just fly to KC since we had to land somewhere. But they had kept the landing gear down because they didn’t want it to get stuck up in case parts of tires were hung up on it and they couldn’t fly that far with landing gear down. Ironically I flew on this same flight on the anniversary a few years later. I didn’t realize it until I saw my Facebook history at the airport.

[@karend1577]

Thanks for your story. I always wonder what the passenger's are going through at times like these.

[@fmanderinoaviation6230]

I used to be a pilot instructor at Pinnacle (now Endeavor). This was the kind of professionalism that we taught. Great job to all involved!!

[@IrishDave]

Everyone here just showed immense professionalism. It was brilliant to hear how well they all worked together. The co pilot did an awesome job with comms and being prepared and one step ahead at all times. Great stuff.

[@brendaraymond5295]

Phone number for Dr. Ghaly in East Syracuse

[@geoben1810]

As a Navy veteran, and afterward working in technical fields where physical hazards existed and clear, consise communication using correct terms and terminology was necessary, I can really appreciate the professionalism everyone exhibits here. ✌🇺🇸

[@ryans.5998]

This First Officer knew what he was doing, as far as communications.

[@CraZy291]

I must confess, I love listening to aviation professionals on the radio.

[@46bovine]

The pilots of that aircraft acted very professionally and responsibly. They are a couple of heroes. Good work boys!

[@AppealPlay]

That was amazing communication. Outstanding! Also, "dirty-esh" is pretty funny.

[@pegasigirl2010]

I'd be happy to fly with those pilots any day. That was extremely well done.

[@stevemccroskey1211]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking coffee....

[@sirjamesperry]

Steve McCroskey haha awesome

[@littleblitz8239]

+Steve McCroskey Did you stop smoking crack too? lol I did...loll

[@dbillings]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue

[@Teverell]

And don't call me Shirley!

[@Strazman]

People who are scared of flying or think flying is unsafe should listen to this video. I'm a student pilot and have logged 43 hours of flight time as PIC. I can tell you, between my time as a student pilot and listening to this, you are much, much, much more likely to be injured or die in a car accident than you are in a plane crash. The protocols and communication and policies and training that goes into being a pilot are far superior to that which is required to obtain a driver's license.

[@EnDSchultz1]

+Strazman Right there with you, buddy. I've had so many close calls just running errands in a comparatively low-traffic town that I'm kind of scared shitless to go out on the road if I don't have to. I feel MUCH safer when I'm up flying, where everybody's coordinating and on the same page. Good luck with your PPL! :)

[@edonaa932]

A

[@theslipperygecko1]

Dirty means things are hanging out of the aircraft, slowing it down with extra drag. Typically flaps and landing gear.

[@747jumbo]

the coolest crew ever

[@86Lebowski]

Controller: did you blow the tires on takeoff or landing? 3285 : Thinking to himself (wtf)?

[@GhostHostMemories]

P. Brabenec maybe he was landing and a tire blew so he aborted? i don't think you'd want to abort like that, but idk...

[@EnDSchultz1]

+shades921 No, to my knowledge, in an airliner, you're committed once the wheels touch down. There's no safe way to abort a landing after that point.

[@Th3Sw3DiShDuD31]

+EnDSchultz1 you can abort landings lol..

[@EnDSchultz1]

Th3Sw3DiShDuD31 Read my comment again, genius. *Once the wheels touch down* an airliner is basically committed to the landing. The spoilers deploy, the reversers come on, and autobrakes apply. It's simply safer to try and stop, come what may, than try to reconfigure for flight again while eating up runway at 130 knots. This is even more true with older turbojets that take forever and a day to spool up to takeoff power.

[@fhuber7507]

Sorry... that's why they have the TOGA button. One button.. the brakes are off, engines full throttle, airbrakes/spoilers come in. Just look at my previous links to VIDEOS of airliners doing an abort as the wheels touch. They practice doing it in the simulator.

[@stevemiller6766]

Nice job on the editing - it would have been nice to have some of the comms after they touched down though. Thank you.

[@preston8836]

These guys always maintain professionalism in these situations ( or at least the good ones do) that to me is a big big big game changer when it comes to emergencies!

[@Jimmythekid007]

You guys sure deserve a Raise ! Excellent!!

[@Rhanley150]

Always amazes me the number of people and stations it takes to help in an Air emergency. Amazing job by all involved here.

[@WildlifeObsessed]

That's an awful lot of communication(s) in a short space of time. Well done, one and all.

[@dbauernf]

Amazing communication between the pilot and all others involved. Great job.

[@santaigozuluaga5502]

he was asking if they wanted the ils approach(instrument landing system), wich means that they will be flying trought the instruments ,or just wanted the ils guidance to perform a visual approach wich mean that they will fly manually but with the glideslope guidance.

[@MithradatesVIEupator]

Hats off to the F/O.. excellent communication.

[@merianharper9551]

"....on takeoff or landing?" First thing that came to my mind was, "Well, considering we're in the air..."

[@gosmo4504]

Amazes me the control and composure all have in these situations. Bravo

[@albula642]

This was really professionally handled from both sides. Thx for the upload

[@haroldwilkes6608]

These guys could lose a wing, say we'll have to NASCAR it, only left turns, and not break a sweat. Admiration.

[@reggveg]

Had me on the edge of my chair, great video,,thanks.

[@Clooney8888]

Daniel... this must be one of your best merged ATC conversations...fantastic , and well edited. Keep it up!

[@scottwinfield2323]

God Bless all involved professionalism

[@schlusselmensch]

The controllers are happy to help and that is what they're there for. Saves looking up the numbers and allows you to keep managing the task at hand. Same situation as when he asked for vectors while reviewing the checklist. If you had to keep every possible frequency on hand that you might possibly ever use you probably wouldn't get hurt in a crash as you'd be securely packed in paper.

[@DanielMori]

I agree: great team work. I post similar videos every now and then.

[@whoddaya]

Wow, Ken. That's quite a lot of time and effort put into compiling and editing this. Good job!

[@MrUser6785]

Thanks for putting this together ken, a great vid, at the moment your vids are my faviroute on ytube!

[@robertl30]

He was asking for the VOR identifiers (3 letter codes). VORs are radio transmitters used for aircraft navigation. Some VORs are more familiar to all pilots than others (JFK or BOS). But here, this pilot had done flight planning for Boston to KC but wound up needing to get to JFK. The Calverton and DeerPark VORs are out on eastern Long Island and wouldn't typically be used on the planned route. Pilots have access to all this information in the Airport Facilities Directory which is always on board

[@sct913]

In a situation like this, it's easier and faster for the pilot to ask the controller for the VOR codes than to try looking them up in a booklet.

[@milty621]

The controller sounds more nervous than the pilot

[@DanielMori]

Glad to hear that. I have a bunch more coming.

[@raffialexanian]

I just love when the controller asked "did you blow the tires on takeoff or landing", wow...what a question, yeah he blew it on landing but forgot about it and then took off again, can we fix that this time around?

[@nickschor]

Thanks for the vid! Helps with the training.

[@ags.1903]

I like very much your videos because you write de communications so it easier to me to understand them,. thanks a lot.

[@murraystewartj]

Co-operation, communication and professionalism. I'm sure the pilots and the various controllers were into "the zone" where the training kicks in and you just get the job done - your legs can turn to jello later. This video shows exactly why they don't let Uber drivers fly planes.

[@John.Halsted]

flagship 3285 is not pinnacle it's Mesaba crew members. Really good pilots.

[@MTAviationPhotoFilm]

I remember sitting at work when this was unfolding... Bad feeling

[@Justin.Franks]

Could have been attempting a landing, and upon the noise and/or behavior of the plane when the tires blew, decided to go around.

[@Aviationobsession]

DIRTY-Low speed, flaps, gear extended.

[@CharlySick]

I greatly appreciate you cutting out all the other chit-chat and the silence on frequency. Yet, that makes it rather difficult to really grasp the speed of the events unfolding, and judging the real cockpit workload. How about adding a little textbox that tells us how many real-world time has passed since the beginning of the event, like a timeline?

[@tuanomsoc]

I thought the exact same things.

[@Geddiz]

Man, I wish people behaved this sensibly and courteously where I worked!

[@Aviationobsession]

CLEAN- High, speed, cruise.

[@JBenTCH66]

In each of the three cases you mention, the pilots are announcing to the controller what version of the ATIS update they have received. If a later update is available, the controller then knows to give the pilots the updated information. Look up "Automatic Terminal Information Service" on Wikipedia to learn more.

[@Highspeed110]

Just stumbled upon your vids; enjoying them while I'm home sick. Does Liveatc.net ever capture ground comms?

[@SayTrueSteve]

janlam01- Regarding to your question: what does "With Foxtrot..." mean? Prior to landing at most controlled airports, pilots will monitor weather on what is known as ATIS (Automatic Terminal Information Service). Every time the weather changes, the report is updated with a new letter. Alpha, Bravo, etc. If ATIS is reporting Bravo weather, and the pilot says with Alpha, the controller will know that the pilot has old weather info. The controller will than usually inform the pilot of the current weather conditions.

[@Biggles2498]

Well Done Stephen ! At Bournemouth Hurn Airport unless it has been hitherto changed the message includes With Papa which makes Lazy Controllers realise The pilot has already grasped ATIS info so needs not to duplicate weather info !

[@radtech21]

That's the ATIS. It is an automatic messaging system that is updated throughout the day. It provides runway information, visibility, some airport info, but most importantly the weather at the reporting airport. Wikipedia: Automatic Terminal Information System

[@kkkennedykk]

cheers man! :)

[@alessandropagetti826]

when you taped on this???!!!nice

[@David_P132]

Refers to whether the aircraft has any flaps etc deployed, and/or the landing gear down. If none of the above, the plane is said to be aerodynamically "clean", i.e. nothing to disrupt the clean flow of air over the wings and fuselage.

[@julienewsome7471]

A language all of their own awesome

[@pfarabee]

I'm pretty sure he's asking if the pilot thinks they will land safely or if they will have a crash landing situation.

[@N0616JCProductions]

Damn, must be some large foreign object on the runway.

[@Diana-km3ge]

Thanks for another great video! Question for those in the know - how/why would a tire blow on takeoff? I hadn’t heard of that happening before... is it common?

[@dstblj5222]

Not very, can be FOD on the runaway, or a tire that got passed one to many inspections.

[@rixoff]

@janlam01, the pilot is reporting the weather report they have for the airport. When there is an update (typically hourly, more frequently if there is a significant change) they will update the weather report. Approach will verify that a pilot has the current weather before clearing them to land. Pilots usually get the weather from ATIS. It's a broadcast that reads the current weather report over and over. It has a version letter that increments for each update.

[@MarcQuiclic]

In Germany it's 20 and 50 minutes on the hour

[@SayTrueSteve]

hell yeah... well done.

[@theslipperygecko1]

Cleared visual approach implies that the aircraft will land visually. If they were officially on the ILS, they would be cleared for an ILS approach. There are different rules pertaining to those different types of approaches, mostly just technicalities though, and the approach would have been physically the same.

[@lousherwood8227]

The tower ATC at JFK sure sounds familiar.. ;)

[@barnes5873]

How many tires are there on each side? Did they land on the rims so to speak? Seems to me if the gear dug into the runway nothing good is happening.

[@whoddaya]

I was just wondering why the copilot had to keep on asking all these controllers for extra info (radio frequencies) all throughout his communication with different controllers. Shouldn't there be some standard procedure for giving as much info as possible?

[@yaakovlobel4617]

Just curious why would they go back if they blew a tire would have to make the same landing whichever airport you land at

[@CZEshark]

how was the end???

[@hockeyrapido]

well when you hear "foxtrot", it means the letter F, also alpha is for A, and uniform is for U. I believe when the pilot states "with information Foxtrot, means that he has weather information under the letter f. because once the weather changes, the atc changes the letter to identify the weather. (80 percent sure)

[@roberthudson1959]

Close. The updates are scheduled, not as necessary.

[@MrEd30]

Ok, sorry, just learning. What are vectors?

[@MTAviationPhotoFilm]

Yeah she had some damage alright

[@whoddaya]

It still seemed there were quite a few bits of information that seemed "standard" to be given during the first correspondence. You sound like you probably know better on this, but I just felt that way.

[@vaporized1000]

The wabbit took off without clearance.... "Wabbit 219 Delta Foxtrot advise when ready to copy a phone number, possible rodent deviation."

[@grasscutter88]

Why not just fly to the destination instead of flying around randomly to burn fuel?

[@arkstone]

That's because he can't retract gear, so he can't speed up and climb to reasonable flight levels (so flying at 220 knots and low altitude will burn their fuel much too fast to fly to destination and he won't have that much fuel in the end, so destination is impossible).

[@StorytimewithNanny]

Albert Valiev hmmm.... Interesting. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the question and thanks for the answer.

[@googaagoogaa12345678]

albert is correct Google hapag lloyd flight 3378 A310 for an example of that scenario

[@dynamicsolution8166]

Pilot revenge on the sarcastic ATC at JFK....fly past 10 other airports to shut them down for a few hours

[@davidhoffman1278]

What is with the echo?

[@ycampos]

i guess clean is without flaps and gear is up, and dirty is full flaps and gear down..

[@DJclonk]

Is your job a atc

[@nicknav09]

FLG 3285 clearded direct deer park, direct ccc direct sandy point dirct deer park direct jfk direct drk direct jfk fly heading 030

[@macgriffyn]

Richard with the Airplane reference...for the win.

[@blfrie]

Dirty configuration typically means flaps and gear are down. Clean configuration means flaps and gear are up. That's why he says he's "dirty-ish": because he had his gear down and flaps up.

[@fadlya.rahman4113]

Is this recorded by a listener or is it released by the ATC for public? I mean, if it was recorded by listener, how the hell do you guys know there's going to be an accident and start recording? Or are you guys sit in front of the radio 24/7?

[@Tomselven]

+fadly A. Rahman You can listen to ATC at liveatc.net. They also have archives of the last 30 days.

[@anacatarinan6245]

Tom Andreas Selven ty for the information :)

[@mcospottinghd7157]

Its actually Endeavor Airlines.

[@AEMoreira81]

It was Pinnacle back then. Mesaba later sold it to Delta and it's Endeavor now.

[@robertgift]

Thank you, *Daniel Mori*, for editing this and sharing it. Well done! Why not burn fuel getting to the destination or an airport in the direction of the destination? Cause of tire destruction? Did one tire failing force too much load on the tire next to it and cause the other tire to fail?

[@CaptainKevin]

Because with the gear down and being limited to 220 knots for this particular aircraft, you can't climb to cruise altitude and you have a lot of drag, so you'll burn a lot more fuel, meaning you won't actually make it to the original destination. As far as getting to an airport in the direction of the destination, technically, they did that when they went to JFK, as the flight departed out of Boston. With JFK being a Delta hub, they most likely had better maintenance facilities available and passengers can easily be put onto other flights to continue onto their original destination.

[@robertgift]

@@CaptainKevin Thank you. I would have used the overweight fuel to get closer to the destination rather than those same miles circling to burn it off. Perhaps land at Columbus, Ohio John Glenn ( _KCMH so that you can understand!_ :-)

[@CaptainKevin]

@@robertgift You could, but if the airline doesn't have a maintenance base there, that won't do you any good, either, since you'd have to rely on a third-party for maintenance. Also, what do you do with the passengers once you get there. I'm not sure there's any non-stop flights going from Columbus to Kansas City. Lastly, you don't know if things are going to get worse with the plane.

[@RalphDratman]

How was the landing? And, does anyone know what caused the blowouts on takeoff?

[@liesdamnlies3372]

They landed safely and the passengers were put on other flights. avherald.com/h?article=45440e0c You can see a photo of the tires, or rather lack of them, here: airnation.net/2012/08/13/delta-jet-diverts-jfk-blown-tire/

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Ralph Dratman ... the atc guy asking if they got the blowouts on landing or takeoff was a bit slow... 😅😅😅😅😅 I mean c'mon... did he think they took off again with no tyres on one side ?? 😎

[@mdr279]

'Half dirty' haha lol

[@garyvale8347]

my question is directed @ qualified commercial airlines pilots .....why is it important for ATC to know the exact number of souls on-board, and in this type of emergency at what point does the pilot explain to the passengers on board just what is happening or does the pilot tell the flight attendants and they inform the passengers...

[@garyvale8347]

thank you for the excellent answer.....

[@deathtotruthers1]

They notify the rescue folks.

[@flyguille]

why... WHY? to come back, it is just a flat tire, and in the destination airport surely has the same "emergency" facilities.... is there a rule from the airliner that on any issue (that don't concern the security during the flight) it have to come back?

[@borzak101]

+flyguille Because they left the gear the entire time. Didn't want to pick the gear up only to have it stick up or cause other problems and possibly damaged gear from the blowout. You can't fly cross country limited to 220 knots with the gear down.

[@Bearmauls]

A number of reasons. In the case of the tires, depending on what made them blow, there could be issues with retracting the gear safely into the airplane. If the assembly was damaged, it could retract improperly, if the tires blew because of overheating (not spinning freely) you can start an inboard fire, etc. But the simplest answer is that, if there is anything wrong with the plane, it's safer not to fly it. If additional problems cropped up in flight, suddenly you have a more complex situation due to the earlier difficulty. Easier and safer to return to the airport immediately, since you're already right there.

[@roberthudson1959]

They did not return to the original airport, although that option was strongly considered. They diverted to JFK for the reasons discussed.

[@MuxiYan]

Does anyone know what ATC means by "do you want the ILS"? I thought ILS (localizer and glideslope) are already up. Thanks in advance.

[@roberthudson1959]

ILS means that they will be landing on instruments, probably not the best idea with blown tires. What they did was use the information generated by the ILS, but maintain manual control of the landing.

[@anythingelseplease123]

take off or landing? why did he ask that?

[@buckmetta]

just for fun - to increase confusion and fear for the pilots

[@robertbell3700]

buckmetta Actually, he could have blown the tires on landing and executed a go around right away while just the main landing gear were on the runway. You can blow tires on either landing or takeoff.

[@intrepid_wandering]

7:49 Dirty-ish? So half dirty, copy. LOLL

[@littleblitz8239]

OK, someone please explain vectors to sandy point and whatever else he said there. I'm new to this. Fires I know, not planes.

[@Wolf_IT]

The easiest way to explain it is they are GPS waypoints for the plane to follow. The V-xxx (don't remember the numbers) are airways, essentially a highway in the sky.

[@littleblitz8239]

Thelevatorchannel124 Ooooh now I get it. Turn right and head towards fifth street and then towards Central?

[@Wolf_IT]

Patrick B Yeah, pretty much. Each waypoint is like a street intersection.

[@DandSCreations]

A Vector is a direction in compass heading and a Victor is an airway. If you ask for vectors to the airport during an emergency or a lost, or hands full situation they are telling you what way to point your airplane. If you're assigned a victor airway that's a charted route between navigational VORs which can also be identified with GPS.

[@julienewsome7471]

Sorry to sound thick but do the pilots have to burn off fuel to land

[@roberthudson1959]

A heavy plane needs a longer runway.

[@TheAussieStig30]

Only a small thing, but why do they ask for souls on board, not people, or passenger, etc? Is it to avoid confusing for a pilot saying 75 people, and then control asking is that 75 total, or 75 plus crew and yourselves? Is souls just a term used because it will cover everything, like children, adults, crew, pilots etc?

[@sccjono]

That's pretty much correct yes. The word 'souls' is an old term used in maritime situations before aviation existed.

[@CaptainKevin]

Souls as in living people, as opposed to dead people since planes can carry caskets as cargo. If they were to crash, the rescue crew are going to want to know how many people they need to account for.

[@hcs4life21]

Can someone break down the clearance info at around 4:35 for me and tell me what the ATC controller is conveying to the pilot? As someone who's a rookie at aviation, it's kind of confusing to me to understand what ATC is telling pilots but it sure is interesting to listen to.

[@hcs4life21]

Brad Grafelman Thank you very much!

[@watchgoose]

it's like someone giving you GPS directions for your car, except these are all points that are acknowledged in the air

[@cincycap]

I'm sure this is a stupid question.....but if there's a problem during takeoff that won't be a danger until it's time to land, and they have to fly around and burn off fuel anyway, why not just go ahead and fly to Kansas City? You've gotta land somewhere....why not do it at your intended destination?

[@zerobyte802]

They left the gear down, because what if they raised it and it got stuck... They couldn't fly all the way to KC with the gear down.

[@cincycap]

That makes sense. Thanks

[@jjovereats]

your heading is now 6509

[@michellehenderson4326]

Love pilots and air traffic control. Who knew all of this was going on while you are sitting there dozing off?

[@R5H4D0W]

How do you blow tires during takeoff?

[@watchgoose]

could have been FOD on runway

[@111himan]

Could of hit something or combination of being very heavy and defective tires cracked open

[@christyvasser6947]

why do they have to burn fuel before they can land

[@FatFreeIce]

the plane is too heavy and could possibly run off the end of the runway, also, fire.

[@owtena]

planes have maximum landing weight and if you have more weight than it is safe for landing you must burn fuel before landing (planes usually are heavier after take off than it's acceptable for landing, because of the fuel). If it's extreme emergency planes usually dump fuel in the air to be able to land faster and not to be forced to burn it. I'm not an expert, but I love planes and watch everything about planes.

[@CaptainKevin]

@@owtena Not always correct. The smaller planes like the 737, A320, 757, and even the CRJ for this flight don't have fuel dump capability. Whilst it is possible to land overweight, it would require an overweight inspection before the next flight could continue. That said, in this particular instance, I don't think an overweight landing would have been a good idea.

[@MultiAxian]

what does he mean by clean or dirty?

[@coolbear6441]

MultiAxian I believe it means if anything is hanging off the plane or keeping it from performing properly...

[@user-eh8lm2xb2q]

So did they land ok ?

[@maxwellbutler4184]

they all died chief

[@Charlesbjtown]

Well, I mean...you're already in the air and either way, you will have to land, be it early...or your destination. So why not just continue to the end destination??

[@CaptainKevin]

Because with the gear down and being limited to 220 knots for this particular aircraft, you can't climb to cruise altitude and you have a lot of drag, so you'll burn a lot more fuel, meaning you won't actually make it to the original destination.