Nefarious Movie (2023) - Demon Explains To Atheist Doctor Their Plan Against Humanity

[@AbideandBelieve]

One of my favorite movies of 2023, reminds me of The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis.

[@robertlehnert4148]

Described as a cross between The Screwtape Letters and My Dinner with Andre

[@unitedstatesirie7431]

C.S. Lewis was a Christian ? "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." ~ HOLY BIBLE, Matthew 23:27

[@DevotedDisciple-x]

@unitedstatesirie7431 All of mankind are hypocrites filled with iniquity and worse. Thank you Jesus for giving us another chance.

[@unitedstatesirie7431]

@@DevotedDisciple-x please research the life history of C.S. Lewis.

[@unitedstatesirie7431]

@@DevotedDisciple-x I am not a hypocrite filled with iniquity. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." ~ HOLY BIBLE, Proverbs 3:5,6 The LORD GOD KING JESUS says, "...if ye love me, keep my commandments." ~ HOLY BIBLE, John 14:15

[@Lyhurs]

"Evil is evil even if everyone does it. Good is good even if no one does it."

Derp is derp, who do you think you're quoting?

[@KennethPinto-u7g]

💯💯💯💯💯

[@bigguy7353]

​@SeanONilbud Not anyone YOU are familiar with. You display your ignorance proudly it seems. Dunce.

[@birdofevil7970]

Is this a quote from Plato, or at least an opinion of Plato?

[@redsol3629]

No, what terrifies me about humans is they can decide what is good and bad. They have the capacity for gross cruelty if it is justified by their beliefs. Good and bad? They are only words, and here is the kicker. We all have the capacity for cruelty within us, and we would call it kindness.

[@andrewplck]

He claims freedom, yet he keeps refering to his Master. He changed his boss, and dare I say, what a downgrade.

[@theperson4yearsago565]

😂

[@nickwoyurka6820]

Freedom in that he’s free from the “enemy” in a sense (as he says)

[@mrpepe1408]

​@@nickwoyurka6820 how is that working out? No wonder he is miserable 😂

[@tomosjackson4760]

An excellent point. Once again the "freedom" we hear of so much today is not a "freedom to" but rather a "freedom from". Free from responsibility Free from morality Free from authority free from duty

[@E-0921]

My take away on it is that while yes the demon went from one master to another master. The differences is that “Lucifer” or “satan” acknowledges that he and the other demons should have free will and be able to act on that just as we do. God has his reasons for why angels, fallen or otherwise, can’t act on it but we can. Lucifer is obviously gonna be the one that leads now as he did before the fall from grace. And he’s gonna allow them that free will.

[@catsupchutney]

The demon complains about the Creator restricting his role to one of slave, but has no hesitation referring to Satan as master.

[@AbideandBelieve]

Good point... and his master has lots of nicknames, "deceiver, accuser, adversary."

[@crazypantz3492]

I don't see it as mutually exclusive. A free agent choses, a slave obeys. You can follow someone freely and still oppose slavery

[@jinpachibobochan3532]

Yeah, well, but that doesn't imply a relationship between owner and slave. The term "master" was usually used as a title to someone above you in social standing or so, like the apprentice calling the teacher master, and such. Slavers with too much ego liked to be called that as well in order to feel more important. But these same slavers had to call their local aristocracy and such master, too, sometimes, depending on the year.

[@thedevilsadvocate8766]

Hell has a hierarchy, just as Heaven does. In fact, each is a mirror opposite of the other. The Supernal/Infernal hierarchy, from highest to lowest: God - Lucifer 7 High Archangels - 7 Princes of Hell Seraphim - Satans ("Satans" as from the Hebrew "satanim" mean "adversaries") Cherubim - Se'irim (lowest of all created beings, analogous to Roman fauns or Arabic djinn) Ophanim/Thrones - Beasts Dominions - Kings (kings are of lower rank in hell, "prince" being a shortening of the Latin "principium" or "first") Virtues - Dukes Powers - Lords Principalities - Marquis' Lesser Archangels - Generals (some sources say that only the 7 Highest angels are the "Archangels" while the rest in this heavenly rank are just Angels. Others state that in addition to the 7 Highest Archangels, Archangels are a separate classification and rank of themselves. These are akin to commissioned military officers like Lieutenant, Colonel, Major, etc above the lesser, "non-commissioned" rank of angel. I include both views here) Angels - Legions (this last rank of both hierarchies is properly thought of as the common foot soldiery, the cannon fodder if you will, of the Supernal and Infernal armies) In both realms, the title of "Master" derives purely from the circumstances of the Eternal War. God and Lucifer each hold complete, total, and final say, arbitration, and control over their armies making the title of "Master" appropriate in a religio-literary sense, if not a true military sense.

[@jinpachibobochan3532]

@@thedevilsadvocate8766 Yeah, no. Hell doesn't exist. It's an invention of some corrupt people to keep control over people with one of the older instruments for such stuff: fear. There's a purgatory and that's it. It's a place where people go and reflect on their lives or whatever until they are free of whatever drags them down and then can rise up. Some special evil degenerate people end up in the void where they fade away - stuff like serial rapist, hardcore nazis, etc. There's no hell as Lucy was just a dumb jealous kid. Lucifer was one of the strongest angels, yeah, maybe, but that didn't put him anywhere near the level of God. You can rebel as much as you want, but you can't do heck against a being that thinks stuff like the universe into existence in mere moments. I'm not especially religious or such, but I accept that God exists and that he's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent in the past, present, and future, and whatnot, and thus, hell doesn't exist because it's inefficient and unlogical and something people dreamed up becuase they didn't know better at the time they lived in. Jesus never acknowledged the existence of hell either, but he did of the purgatory, or at least some form of afterlife outside paradise. He said it himself to his people that they shouldn't fear death as it won't stop them from reaching paradise even if they feel that they aren't up the the standards. Probably means that even in death, you get a second chance. Look at creation and you see that God may be everything but inefficient. Hell is inefficient.

[@Hiddenronin]

"Theology? From a Demon?" is a pretty dumb thing to say. Biblical demons are fallen angels. Of course they believe in God.

[@jsmall10671]

This movie was made by christians to proselytize. They are just doing the whole "What? Satan knows the bible?!?" schtick.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

It's a movie, evil isn't supernatural neither is good. If they had anything real or factual they'd have made a Documentary they don't so it's just movie filed under Crime or Fantasy.

[@tom4705]

Nah its real ​@@johnmichaelson9173

[@ephilbin]

​@@johnmichaelson9173 12 Angry Men is also a work of fiction, but it crafts its setting and narrative to provide a hard-hitting look at very real things.

[@qwerty-so6ml]

Wanna see a fallen angel? LOOK IN THE MIRROR. Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels). They made this realm. They made man in their image. (tares) Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels. Genesis 2:7 the Lord God forms His representative in their system. (wheat) One Gospel: Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.

[@j.peters1222]

"Unfortunately for both of us, he exists." He sounds legitimately uncomfortable admitting that there is a creator.

[@Belmont1714]

​@@AlexReynardThe stuff that happens, happens bcoz humans chooses to do evil. You can't blame Him for your way of life and still go against what He teaches.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

"Oh great, just what we needed: a demon giving life advice to an atheist doctor. Because if there's anyone who can save humanity, it's a guy who spends his time in a hospital rather than reading the fine print on the back of a dark, rusty book!"

[@AlexReynard]

@@Belmont1714 I'm not talking about me; I'm empathizing with the demon here. Clearly, he was rejected by his father and cast out forever, and now resents the 2nd child (humans) who receive his father's love. Entirely understandable. It breaks my heart because, the doctor gets it right immediately, "Why don't you build something instead of acting like this?" And the demon's like, 'No, we have to punish God.' As if that will make Him love them and take them back. Poor stupid demons. If I'd been there I would have told him, "Dude, I walked away from my abusive family and I don't think about them anymore. I don't dwell on them. I have friends now. What are you doing to yourself?"

[@Belmont1714]

@@RealCaptainJaws Why did He do it? You failed to mention WHY... There's no part where punishment from Him is done without a reason.

[@AlexReynard]

@@pongsatonrattanapriyanuch7331 That's an extremely accurate analogy. And we can also see from Jordan Peterson's outreach, it only takes the smallest amount of encouragement to get through to someone like that and bring them back to sanity. They don't actually want to push everyone away, they want to feel love. They're just bad at giving it.

[@richatgreenday]

The way he goes from demon to Edward to demon is amazing acting in the movie, real thought provoking dialogue too.

[@hauptkommissarbushido5157]

The scene with the broken finger is insane. He literally takes his own body as a hostage xD

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

"Nothing like a little bedside manner from a demon! I always knew my doctor was wicked, but I didn't expect him to prescribe existential dread!"

[@criztu]

nowhere in the bible does it say you were created. the so called "translations" of the bible in the tongues of the nations are abominations. also, in the bible, Christians do not have hierarchies. now look at the so called "Catholic church, Protestant church, Orthodox church" - they have Pope > cardinals > archbishops > bishops > priests > deacons. these are false prophets, coming to us in sheep clothes but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

[@mrkiky]

it's only thought provoking if you haven't thought about this kind of stuff very much.

[@ianinkster2261]

I had to do a double take to check if it's even the same actor.

[@OnlyAFoolsHope]

That “unfortunately for both of us he exists” dig was so deep it went over the doctor’s head. He was basically saying you’re smart but not smart enough to even acknowledge your own creator.

[@Ch4rlz_ThA_Princ3]

#itsActuallyThatDeepThough

[@Ace96x10]

I think he's saying that the doctor is already in huge huge trouble come judgement time.

[@Kris_413]

@@Ace96x10 Bingo! ✅

[@ernestoA.1999]

This all came from the imagination of ancient jews /hebrews, God and evil right and wrong just like black and white , like hot and cold , winter and summer , positive and negative, even in science it exists, man and women, and there’s always have to be two things opposed and attracted to each other at the same time , I do believe theres a creator, but not as humans paint to be , what humans paint is their imagination

[@jacobgraemoor5778]

Or the demon is just that stupid since his plan backfires on himself.

[@oledahammer8393]

Evil creates nothing, notice how the demon dodged that. Their eternal existence is boiled to down to eternal hate and NOTHING else. Just trying to stick it to God for all eternity, NOTHING else.

[@PolishBehemoth]

Bingo.

[@jimmypeeps8471]

An interesting connection between how all movies and shows are trash these days and are mostly REMAKES, or "remixes" of original creations that were actually good when released.

[@hibbo1351]

Isaiha 45:7 God already copped to creating all evil. Which day did he create kid cancer?

[@mackenzieneal1660]

You just described the democrat party to a T.

[@PolishBehemoth]

@@mackenzieneal1660 100% Facts.

[@johnnk3256]

Wow. Beautifully written. Instead of going the supernatural powers and spectacle route, they went the intellectual and question/curiosity route. We don't see these much in movies today. Great work. 🎉

[@matthewhollier]

Well said. I can't think of any other movie where 90% of it is two people sitting in a room and talking, yet this was one of the most compelling performances I've ever seen.

[@johnnk3256]

@@matthewhollier: They knocked this one out of the park.

[@vipermad358]

"Intellectual". It's funny when ignorant Christers use that word. 😂

[@alexsolomon8127]

oh, they do that too. it's just subtle. remember by the end of the movie they're trying to possess the guy, and it's only an "accidental" misfire from the gun that made the suicide fail.

[@SystemUpdate310]

"We don't see these much in movies today", this movie came out in 2023, merely a year ago.

[@jacksonboone8396]

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[@kennydolby1379]

so god is evil cos he does nothing

[@Barrythebarnabas]

God is worse than evil. He created it in the first place

[@JohnWilson-zh3il]

Are you downgrading God to be human?

[@4redniwediS]

​@@BarrythebarnabasNo you are wrong, like darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of goodness!

[@jamesdylan2446]

@kennydolby1379 Yeah he does nothing. It’s called free will. With free will we have good people and evil people. Evil people who do horrible things to innocent people. Free will works both ways. We all will be judged. So yeah God does nothing. Lol. In the end evil will be dealt with. Without free will we would be robots. No need to reply because you can’t change reality.

[@Yoitscaivaxthemolotovfox]

In earlier scenes and some in this one is how fast the demon talks like it can process stuff faster than we can and it shows how terrifyingly smart it must be

[@Thebig_KC]

Yup and people needs to realise how smart and skillful these demons are. That's why we don't thriffle with them.

[@lissainlenoir]

The Fell Ones are thousands of years old, of course they are intellectual giants....

[@lordgoro]

@@lissainlenoir a side effect

[@MF-Rell]

​@@Thebig_KC Yes bc they're real. 😂😂😂

[@monkeyking617]

@@Thebig_KC "how smart and skillful these demons are"... I'm sure you meant how smart and skillful the writers and directors and actors are, right? 🤔 Even if demons are real, there are NONE in this movie, he followed a script. So sad to live in these times when the average person equates manufactured entertainment with education. 😔

[@snitchbstudios]

I like how the demon can't say God's name because because of it's power. So he calls him the Enemy or the Carpenter.

[@jcmick8430]

Praise Yahweh

[@jc4evur661]

"Even the demons believe and shudder" James 2:19

[@Megaspinosaurusrex]

The carpenter?

[@jc4evur661]

@@Megaspinosaurusrex Jesus...who was a Carpenter

[@wolvmarine313]

If only this laughable tale were actually true.

[@aretnap3653]

"Let's Ignore TheObvious Problem of That Plan!" 😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂

[@kevvwinnin4747]

But did they really lose? From what I see they won centuries ago

[@paladinsmith7050]

@@kevvwinnin4747 Jesus won, wake up.

[@thegreatestever913]

​@@kevvwinnin4747if you're referring to the great flood then yes they technically did

[@thegreatestever913]

​@@paladinsmith7050i don't wanna be that guy but the great flood exists bcuz mankind was corrupted. The world is gonna end again bcuz of corruption and more people will fall than rise

[@Scarl3t03]

@@kevvwinnin4747 watch the movie and you have your answer

[@cwb2992]

Within any society or civilization, no one is truly free to do whatever they want. Rules and laws exist whether they are religious, spiritual, or human, and there is always a leader.

[@imperialinquisitor510]

Followers always think that.

[@sstrykert]

​@@imperialinquisitor510 natural law. Without a contraption, good luck flying. Law of gravity. Without an unknown as yet means, good luck reversing aging. Law of time. Even rebels burn calories.

[@chickenmaster66]

“Civilized” societies or ones based around an agricultural class that makes all the food while other artisans who specialize in their skills do their thing “doctors healers shamans” “stone masons architects crafters etc” as they don’t need to move around and hunt for food they can make permanent fissures and grand homes palaces they can sit contemplating philosophy and government. The agricultural revolution (that thing we learned in elementary school social studies. That thing that started in Egypt/mesoamerica and led to the first civilizations and mega structures aka pyramids that thing where you stack a giant object on top of a smaller giant object till you get a point at the top literally the easiest thing to make which is why every single ancient civilization made one. Yes then people tend to look towards a king or develop class that can vote (democracy) or send tribunes who can vote for them a (republic) or a government in which you elect people to make laws for you. But if you don’t like them you can vote for someone else. (Democratic republic) yeah you know sure. Good stuff. Tribal societies didn’t do any of that. Human nature back to the jungle has no rules it’s common sense. Rules are thought through and listened debated and written down. Nothing else in nature ever is ever done that way. That’s just stupid to even conclude that… do lions debate with gazzels before they devour them? Does the pride leader debate the women in the pride before he kills all their children and conquers them into making him more? No

[@brandynkoogler4500]

​@imperialinquisitor510 that isn't true lol you can acknowledge someone as a leader even if self imposed and not follow them. There are plenty of other countries that have leaders and I don't support or follow them. But they are objectively leaders. Whether they're good or bad is up for debate..

[@diligenceeke3023]

​@@brandynkoogler4500 You are not free sir. You live in a country. If you commit murder today you'll be arrested and thrown in jail!

[@jerrybobteasdale]

The demon actor did very well.

[@captdaddy]

Powder

[@Tradingdream11111]

The tongue part was getting annoying

[@jerrybobteasdale]

@@Tradingdream11111 I dunno. It made his seem less human and more spooky.

[@cabudagavin3896]

@jerrybobteasdale Can I ask you a question? When you die, does love remain?

[@mikeymike2256]

Too many tics and gimmicks, it's literally bad acting!

[@kirkhensley5870]

Someone really, really, read Paradise Lost. This is excellent. This is the kind of dialog that an actor could really chew on with pleasure. If you haven't, read that book as hard as it is. This just did the shortest summation of John Milton. Dogma by Kevin Smith has a similar taste in the best dialog exchange with Matt Damon. "I've heard a rant like this before. You sound like the Morningstar." Dogma: Best work Ben Affleck ever did. All downhill from there.

[@ChRi5t0FuR]

Thank you for the recommendations!

[@jculver1674]

It was also inspired by The Screwtape Letters, another good read.

[@ChRi5t0FuR]

Thanks!@@jculver1674

[@garybrown2039]

The auther very likely also read saint Thomas Aquinas's work, especially though suma theologia, it talks about this stuff.

[@Mooseman327]

Or all of esoteric Christianity, Gnosticism, Anthroposophy, Tomberg, etc. This is nothing new, of course. Almost as old as God himself.

[@mireaman1]

The devil doesn't want to be forgiven only because humanity will be at peace

[@jacobgraemoor5778]

Well somebody’s gotta give people an actual choice that isn’t some illusion of free will.

[@cliptec]

Israhell who keeps bombing its neighbors, yet play victim.

[@Megaspinosaurusrex]

​@@jacobgraemoor5778Do demons give humans actual choice by guiding them in the direction that they want?

[@BrandonMcHenry-l7v]

You have the free will to choose. You know the outcomes/consequences ahead of time, you are ahead of the game. All hunans are, it’s spelled out in the Bible what the choices/consequences are and how to put yourself on the righteous path. Yet you are so blinded by self-delusion fomented by the adversaries you continue to choose the path of destruction. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” - also see Equity, inclusion, diversity, LGBTQ, etc etc

[@BeHoly10]

​@@jacobgraemoor5778 You do know there isn't gonna be a battle right it's gonna be swift and over quickly the devil doesn't stand a chance so if I were you I wouldn't be on his side you do know what happens to them right

[@debbiecurtis4021]

WEF must be like this, they'll stop at nothing to destroy humanity.

[@chrisbailey9377]

They won't get away with anything. God's not going to allow it.

[@Ch4rlz_ThA_Princ3]

​@@chrisbailey9377God doesn't even have to do a thing. Evil by nature has a built in self destruct sequence.

[@skinnyWHITEgoyim]

When you understand who the world leaders worship, their plans become obvious. They're building anything. They're carrying out lucifers evil plans to destroy as much of God's creation as possible. They're literally harvesters of souls for their father. The devil. The synagogue of satan just like Jesus Christ said in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9

[@JohnDoe-jt5lb]

God would be WEF in this metaphor, since they're the ones trying to enslave everyone.

[@rickkybobby8118]

Oh dear im in "that" part of KZbin again

[@ghostfacekicker]

I randomly saw this movie. It’s worth watching. SPOILER ALERT: he was really possessed. Actually the post title spoiled it. You don’t know if he’s a demon or not at this point but he does have details about the doctor’s life that there’s no way he would know about.

[@zachnoe4503]

“He made you in his image, but we remade you in ours” that’s the entire plan that Satan has been working on since the beginning of time

[@AlexReynard]

What happens then if, in the process of doing so, we unintentionally make them become more like us?

[@conscientiousobjector5988]

Waht?

[@asianartist1]

@@AlexReynard lol - master never returns to his worker as a worker - never. you imply we have some kinda spark, hope - but that... that is earned through experience and wisdom, not a wish. if they existed before us, it's like an ant saying since we eat human food, maybe they farm for us...

[@AlexReynard]

@@asianartist1 "lol - master never returns to his worker as a worker - never." You've never seen an episode of Undercover Boss? "that is earned through experience and wisdom, not a wish." It's not a wish., It's basic predator psychology. When we domesticated wolves, we came at them behaving like neither prey or a threat. And that confused them enough to give them pause. Make them consider, 'Maybe I won't kill this one.' If you come at a demon with an attitude that is neither fear nor opposition, maybe you will confuse it. In nature, if you walk unarmed, confidently, with open arms towards an enemy, that is universally understood as a gesture of truce. 'You could kill me. And I may still backstab you through some treachery. But you wanna take a risk with me on a handshake instead?' "if they existed before us, it's like an ant saying since we eat human food, maybe they farm for us..." when I was little, my stepdad took me to the park, and made me lay down part of my chocolate bar for an ant colony to enjoy. I didn't want to do it at first, because I was selfish. but he taught me the value of doing something kind for others with no desire for profit from it. If demons have been around longer than us, you think none of them has ever considered that? Also, did you forget that they're the same species as angels? How could they be so terrible if that's what they came from? A spurned servant doesn't really want to destroy the master who cast him out; he wants to serve and love again, but the betrayal cast him into a pit of nihilism where he thinks there's no hope of that ever happening again. You ever seen how quickly a dog will come to forgive humanity and love his new owner that shows him kindness, even if the old master beat him and threw him away?

[@ArchAngelWC]

many of us believe that...was Christianity.... I mean think about it Jesus wasn't deified by committee until 300+ years after his crucifixion as, "King of the Jews" by the Romans, a people historically renowned for their sense of humour... at the behest of the Pharisees who hated his ass for preaching secular faith, faith that didn't require a temple. That faith Adonai spoke to us of when he was telling off David for building a temple instead of looking the fuck around him... and it in one of its first acts we get the active violation of the 1st commandment in that Jesus becomes "your lord"+/- and saviour"....not God something even Jesus didn't fk with....he was pretty clear about God is God and he's just offering to be an advocate for you maybe take some weight, offer a little intercession..be your rabbi :P...and then we have the graven images, depictions of that which is in heaven, paedophilia, murder, extortion, theft, massacres, holy wars lmao....etc etc also the active suppression of knowledge for centuries and the erasure of vast swaths of human history because it didn't fit their narrative ie: until recently Mary the wife of Christ and his First Disciple was actively slandered as a whore by the Church......but i mean the Vicker of Christ is infallible right and then if that church wasnt enough of an abomination....Martin Luther's antisemitic ass comes along to shit in the cheerios of Europe for centuries culminating in Good Christians perpetrating the Holocaust...the great pogrom of our time which again...didnt finish us off cause ya'll are failures 6000+ years of people trying to obliterate our tribe and Nope lol :P

[@liberty4life1779]

Basically a summary of Milton's Paradise Lost.

[@jsmall10671]

Which was very much non-biblical. It's all fiction all the way down

[@NateB]

That’s where most of this Hollywood theology stuff comes from.

[@Prototype10_]

What is that?

[@MrSeedi76]

​@@Prototype10_a book.

[@c-LAW]

And Dante's inferno. Both of which are modern pop culture theology but neither biblical theology.

[@3budbudbud]

Such a great back and forth. The acting from Flannery was wild. I felt pity for Edward at the end, he couldn’t even get his final meal. Such a small thing meant so much.

[@giantslug6969]

"my master told us that the other guy made us slaves" what logic

[@blank557]

Whoa. Powerful scene that lays out the crux of of the Devil's plan. The demon of course downplays the fact that even if God offered them forgiveness and grace, they would refuse it out of rebellion, because they want their own short-sighted will that involves exploiting others to preserve their ego caste system, than treating even the most weakest and humble as deserving as love and care.

[@Jericho4444]

Great comment!

[@Relentingsinner650]

Wait where did he say God offered forgiveness? Like he says "why give will just to say you can't use it"

[@theengine1x]

Wow. Never heard organized religion described so perfectly. I am going to borrow this. Thank you.

[@m_d1905]

​@@Relentingsinner650Obviously God let them have their will. The demon basically admitted it would never repent so now it's all mad that God let it exercise it's free will. God also knew such beings would choose rebellion always so why offer? He offers it to humanity because we are different in nature and often do repent and change.

[@Relentingsinner650]

@@m_d1905 wait wait, he said why give free will just to say you can't use it....meaning if I choose to live my life the way I want to and not according to how God wants....it's free will? That's an ultimatum....follow me or else, that's why he said it's unfair, it's slavery.

[@KenMasters.]

This is basically like watching a debate between a "Modern" Satanist and a True Satanist.

[@truone637]

Well the psychologist was an atheist and that is in line with "Modern" Satanism as you stated.

[@anniehopkins8470]

@@truone637 ... I would argue that there is no such thing as an "atheist"... the concept exists on paper... but I have never encountered one on real life... though I have encountered many who identify as such. Their human nature prevents them from adhering to the definition It's like "communism"... the construct exists on paper... and we have labeled people & nations as "communist"... but those people or nations don't actually adhere to the definition... thus they are something else entirely. The Chinese Communist Party for instance... couldn't be less "communist" if they tried... and I would argue that you couldn't find me an actual historical example. Even the guy that wrote the manifesto acknowledges this issue in the end. The "human element" is always forgotten or disregarded with concepts like these... when it's the usually determining factor of whether or not a thing is possible.

[@dylanjones268]

@@anniehopkins8470 That is dumb

[@TheHigherVoltage]

"I would argue that there is no such thing as an "atheist"... the concept exists on paper... but I have never encountered one on real life... though I have encountered many who identify as such. Their human nature prevents them from adhering to the definition " huh? What do you think the definition of "Atheist" is?

[@Jericho4444]

@@anniehopkins8470gotta say this is one of the smartest and most eloquent takes I have ever read…. I'm a history major and I could not agree more!

[@meedily]

He really nailed that role. Damn.

[@ElegantlyUnSeen4u2nv]

Even the demons acknowledge God

[@falstoffe]

Yes, that is where there are ten commandments, but only nine Hells, because even Satan himself cannot deny the first commandment - the EXISTENCE of God. "Atheism" as humans understand it, is a mis-manifestation of the 10th commandment, not the first.

[@timothy3644]

That's exactly why it's not enough to just merely believe in Yeshua. To get into Heaven. The devil and his angels believe. They're still gonna burn.

[@jackadams3878]

@@falstoffe who said there were 9 hells?

[@Ace96x10]

They know he exists, and tremble at his name, but they deny him all the time, even from a pulpit.

[@FactStorm]

Mythology for the weak-minded and gullible.

[@bretharley7480]

This dude is a boondock saint. He looks and sounds so different.

[@cabronicusmaximuschingonic1062]

Older. The word you're looking for is "older". Guess a third boondock's movie better come out quick, or when we DO get one, is going to be an embarrassing to watch.

[@MrJackal43]

It was 20 YEARS ago, fool…😂

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

That happens when it's a different person.

[@ziguardo]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[@deviousmile669]

sooo...dad was a bit strict, you were a petulant child and when daddy had a second child you decided to torture your little brothers instead of keep hating on your dad....wow such superior being

[@jsmall10671]

And dad knew exactly what would happen when he birthed the older brothers, but birthed them anyway. Think on that.

[@deviousmile669]

@@jsmall10671 thinking on that...but replacing strict with ahole Does not change the rest of my sentence

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

well in this particular story heaven and hell already existed before creation of man, so lucifer was cast out for rebellion, now the paradox of god always comes up. if he is all merciful, why didn't he give them a second chance instead of cast them to hell forever at first act of dissidence, which they can only do with the free will god blessed them with? Like in the movie, if he is all forgiving and all merciful, an forever hell wouldn't exist in the first place. All merciful and forgiven doesn't leave room for permanent punishment.

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

Using your dad/child analogy this is more like, the first time the oldest child act out in petulance, the dad send the child away forever to military school, at the same time claiming he is an all mercy, all love and all forgiving parent. If you are the child, wouldn't you be, da fuq, this is really unfair, not even a 2nd chance from the MOST forgiving and merciful being?

[@damyr]

The story of Jesus is the peak of the religious diarrhea... God sacrificed himself to himself to save the world from himself. Now, ponder on that for a bit.

[@jcfra420]

I have to say, I have never really thought Sean Patrick was that great of an actor, until this movie. He so nailed this character.

[@lordofthered1257]

The thing is the demon talks about how he will not be forgiven but they would never accept God's forgiveness even if he offered it.

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

he never said explicitly if god offers forgiveness they will or will not accept it. The demon however pointed out the contradiction of an all loving, merciful and forgiving god, that casts angels down to a place of eternal damnation at first act of rebellion, no warning, no 2nd chances. And any human soul ends up there, eternal torture. But he loves you and is all merciful and forgiving, more so than any other entity. that's one of the real contradiction.

[@lordofthered1257]

@theportraitartxiaonan1370 There is no contradiction. If you do not love God he will not force you to spend eternity with him. Hell is separation from God. God isn't merciful, he is mercy. God isn't loving, he is love. If you hate God he will separate you from him. Maybe God isn't the problem. Maybe you are.

[@KenMac-ui2vb]

That prisoner was one incredible actor. Very well done.

[@Jmsilan821]

You need to look up the movie “Powder” (1995)

[@daaichommie708]

Can I just say, that the jumpsuit guy's acting is phenomenal. Bravo sir!

[@drivenbyrage5710]

If you have a master, you do not have free will. He just chose one control over another.

[@bags4649]

The difference is, it was his choice.. And that's a major difference between a master and an owner.

[@williamcarder1975]

We all have a master. We either belong to Christ or we belong to Satan.

[@bags4649]

@@williamcarder1975 Agreed, but it must be your or the persons own choice, not forced upon them.

[@williamcarder1975]

@@bags4649 I agree and disagree with you. By nature, we are all children of wrath because we are all born sinners. And because we are sinners by nature, we belong to Satan. It is only when by faith, we choose to put our faith in Christ, that we come the children of God. But unless one repents of their sin and puts their faith in Christ, we belong to Satan. You are Eleuthera on Christ or you are not. There is no in-between.

[@aldosigmann419]

'You cannot serve 2 masters, you'll love one and hate the other...'.

[@Christus-Veritas]

*"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of lies."* John 8:44

[@leviwanyoike]

Oh I love that book of fairytales. Do give us some more please 🙏

[@seabreeze4559]

@@leviwanyoike Cultural Marxism. The most recent made up stories.

[@waynemyers2469]

@@leviwanyoike Read it yourself, fool.

[@edwardelliott5756]

I had never been able to understand why the devil and his subjects continued to rebel until this scene. They aren’t insane. They are quite sane and evil. Revenge. That is the answer.

[@ninja3687]

Pride.

[@alexgramm5170]

Also a man took Lucifer's place as high priest... that man was and still is Christ. The saved, as a corporate body ,do and will, in a full consumation of God's eternal purpose, occupy the place that he once held before the fall.

[@garybrown2039]

Pride and envy, according to saint Thomas Aquinas.

[@Agamemnon-w9x]

As the demon said, they are 'beings of pure spirit', so my guess is that in being that, they sort of act in what their spirits are full of.. Malice, Envy, Pride, etc..

[@Agamemnon-w9x]

@@alexgramm5170 Lucifer wasn't the high priest, he was just the highest ranking angel that shone over God's throne, the Morning Star

[@joshmccollen700]

They're still slaves.

[@Rick-or2kq]

We are slaves of life thrown into chaos and we spend our lives trying to put into order our own little world, which is futile attempt when we don't understand the nature of existence. I have told people if you cannot look up at the sky at night and tell what that is and how it came to be, then you know nothing, except how to beath and walk.

[@jupiterrising887]

@@Rick-or2kq That's just garden variety existentialism. It's a recent idea and it's a bad one, that road leads to the puddle argument. God is demonstrably real. Seek and ye shall find is a truth as old as anything, and some people are lost because they don't seek after anything but their own pleasure. People are on a happiness quest, not a truth quest.

[@sippxn]

​@@jupiterrising887 >some people are lost because they don't seek after anything They are 'lost' because pleasure is the only really intrinsic verifiable thing to our brain. Also, I've seeked after god but was pushed away from it because i realised the problem of evil. God does not seem loving at all....

[@sumralltt]

There end will be the Lake of Fire along with all those who rejected Jesus as Savior!

[@trlavalley9909]

Best 5 Minutes of dialog I have heard in years, TY for sharing.

[@geoffallen2835]

Do you live in an intellectual vacuum?

[@FirstnameLastname-wl9jx]

​@@geoffallen2835Don't they all?

[@jamescuttler8047]

@@geoffallen2835clearly

[@Daylight-nu3rt]

They may understand theology, but the application they can do, because of their evil nature.

[@randybaumery-cp7tf]

This reminds me of how in the new Testament, the Pharisees struggled with who Jesus was but the demons would scream His name and title loudly. They KNEW.

[@mrkiky]

"You revolt against an all powerful being. Let's ignore the obvious problem with that plan" _Proceeds to not ignore the obvious problem with that plan in the very next line_

[@yes-qw6om]

it was sarcasm

[@KatWoodland]

The mouth movements of the actor in orange is exactly what a person run by a demon is actually like.

[@jgphilosophy9963]

🤦‍♂️

[@darrennew8211]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious.

[@721rena]

The acting and facial movements and everything reminds me of my ex who was sadly addicted to drugs and highly traumatized after being ganggraped. Lookin at this had me crying cause he reminds me of him so much it hurts

[@ScottishRoyal1]

The actor does it in real life its a tick or mannerism

[@siddislikesgoogle]

They cannot repent, therefore they can't be forgiven.

[@tubaszuba]

They could repent, but they'd still be unforgiven because they 100% knew the consequences going in.

[@siddislikesgoogle]

@@tubaszuba they WONT repent I think is better. They have free choice, but the basis upon which they took the decision to turn away from God is one of perfect information. Nothing new can be argued for them to change their minds. They witnessed the full Spendour and Majesty of God and concluded: no. You can't come back from that.

[@mlamont235]

@@siddislikesgoogle this concept makes me wonder why humans are subject to eternal punishment then, because we haven't witnessed full splendor and majesty. All we have is faith. Our faith either gets us into heaven, or the lack of faith subjects us to torture. I just don't understand how it's fair.

[@redink71]

@@mlamont235 Because people Choose hell. What has God said If you love me follow my commandments. So we know all we need to know. We choose not to follow the commandments and therefore choose hell. We don't need the same treatment the angels had. We have our own marching orders.

[@ernestoA.1999]

“Everybody deserves a chance “ John Krammer

[@NorthForkFisherman]

So...Daddy Issues X10^100? Odin's Balls! Kripke's Supernatural was spot on.

[@SSD_Penumbra]

Nope. Paradise Lost was spot on, which is where most interpretations in Hollywood come from.

[@NorthForkFisherman]

@@SSD_Penumbra And that itself is more than likely a derivative work itself. I'd hazard on Dante and Marcus Tullius Cicero. In the end, there's nothing new under the sun.

[@SSD_Penumbra]

@@NorthForkFisherman Not Dante, that's for sure. His demons weren't actually demons, just people consigned to hell. Milton was pretty clear that Lucifer and the Fallen were demons.

[@NorthForkFisherman]

@@SSD_Penumbra And in reality, just more angels. And that was especially true in how Supernatural presented them as well - right bastards all.

[@greygremlin1248]

He calls himself a slave. But heaven his paradise. A world were there is know violence. Sickness. Starvation. Warmth. Light. Then he rebelled and cast into a slum like pit of fire rock, blood and pain. If serving in paradise is slavery, i would mind it

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

heaven is not a paradise when at first it is all there is. you need some other state of being or place to compare against for heaven to be a paradise since it's a relative term. Then main angel (lucifer) and a bunch other angel rebelled (with the free will god gave them), and is immediately condemned forever, but then what would be the point to give them free will if they can only pick 1 option? and why all loving, merciful, forgiving God brings about permanent condemnation, and continue to let such place exist for permanent torture of human souls, while being all loving, merciful and forgiving.

[@pjcaradoc]

The theology is spot on, but a real demon would probably never reveal itself to an atheist (demons don't tend to do that).

[@Ch4rlz_ThA_Princ3]

Yes you're right. They intentionally avoid ever saying their own names.

[@johnlynn9041]

It's true, but for the point of this film I understand why they chose to make him do so.

[@Dr.Gojithecollector]

You gotta remember that he can openly reveal himself, because hes in no danger of being actually caught. "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing man that he doesnt exist".

[@ColossalDrip]

I mean, he was trying to get himself killed anyways if you ever actually watched the movie. The power and secrecy of his name no longer mattered to him since he was trying to get exorcised by death

[@jamespowell7376]

its a movie bozo , the point of this show is being displayed and you still went after the actually thing that happens ??

[@omathitis8498]

So, in this movie, demons are like spoiled brats that got spanked and disowned. They call obedience to a perfect being slavery, but in the end, got enslaved by someone just like them. What a tragedy.

[@grandtheftaudio6386]

not exactly. From what it sounds like from the story being told by the Demon; "Angels" were given free will by "God" but barred from using it because "God" demanded that they be subservient to him because he created them, no choice or discussion on the matter. Angered by this they rebelled but were outcasted for doing so, abit of a twist on the traditional story told but it doesnt indicate if the Demons follow their "Master" willingly or out of force.

[@lesigh1749]

That sounds like a lot of Millenials.

[@Mlanding1]

poor interpretation of this scene

[@kaj7135]

@@lesigh1749*Zoomers

[@Swaggmire215]

I'm given free will but if I actually use free will I get punished. Da fuq

[@XCAVVVx]

This was such a gripping movie. Excellently written, directed and produced. 👍

[@bugen5]

What's funny is, he talks about being endowed with free will but not able to use it. But they obviously did use it if they were able to revolt against God. Furthermore, these beings were born into paradise and craved sin. Us, on the other hand, were born into sin and crave paradise. But their plan to take down humanity has already failed with the sacrifice of Jesus.

[@Aries_Luck]

God predestined everyone s choice es. There’s no free will.

[@luisfelipesilvasampaio7922]

the only way you can use free will it is when you go against the rulles! when you follow the rulles other people or beens or whatever already made the decision to what should be done and how!! only when you makes a choice of not doing it or not following! That is what makes the free will real!!

[@paulryan2128]

@@luisfelipesilvasampaio7922 But .... what if you actually agree with the rules and choose (*choice*) to follow them. Isn't that Free Will? If "not", why not?!

[@luisfelipesilvasampaio7922]

@@paulryan2128 it would be free will if there were no punishment if you choose not to follow them!! it is like: "you can do whatever you want but if you don´t obey me i´m going to punish you, you will soffer"!! it is as if you can choose but you just not allowed to choose something different from what i want you to!!! so you can only use free will when you don´t follow rules!!

[@LCD04]

@@luisfelipesilvasampaio7922to say there is no free will is to think there should be no consequences for your actions. Free will is there just as an outcome to any situation is there.

[@rcarter183]

The Black lady at the end of movie lol. "Did you miss me?" LOLOLOL.

[@JamesB21a]

Holy crap! How did I miss this one? Is the rest of the movie as well written as this?

[@prdmakovy]

just thinking the same, i must watch it ASAP

[@zoraxBonesplitter]

It is, completely worth the watch

[@prdmakovy]

@@zoraxBonesplitter ill find the movie and watch it today after work definitely

[@ThePerpetualStudent]

On it!!

[@prdmakovy]

@@zoraxBonesplitter watched it yesterday as promised, loved it 😀

[@Save657]

Your "master" desired to be worshipped, which was something NEVER meant to be. -Matthew 4:9, 10

[@LowenKM]

Yep, and in the end, they _ALL_ turn out to be petty and vengeful gods.... "created in _our_ own image"

[@alexandersears8538]

"Live a just life, and if the Gods are just they will reward you whether you worship them or not. If they are not just, you should not worship them. And if there are no Gods, you will have lived a just life and be honored in the memories of your descendants." - Marcus Aurelius

[@55Quirll]

Yet that is exactly what god wants, he doesn't want to be just acknowledged, he wants to be worshipped too, if you don't worship him you will be condemned to eternal damnation and torment.

[@55Quirll]

@@alexandersears8538 This is the best way to live your life, thank you for post this.

[@777logos2]

@@55Quirll Guess that makes the choice easy considering he’s done so much, including giving us life. Not to mention the enemy wants to destroy you and the Lord seeks to give eternal life. Choice is easy when dealing with truth compared to the lies of the world and those who love darkness.

[@yanwain9454]

the two different types of guys who play tennis

[@mistersinister2043]

Literally contradicts himself multiple times. He says they have free will, but then that they serve another master. Then he says humans have free will, but were conquered by nature.

[@jsmall10671]

Right, bc it's impossible to make rational dialogue about this bronze age nonsense.

[@moralityisnotsubjective5]

His type are liars. What do you expect?

[@ScottishRoyal1]

He chose his second master though by rebellion, his first one was forced.

[@mistersinister2043]

@@ScottishRoyal1 Why does he have a master if he is supposed to have free will?

[@cybertron1000s]

Atheists trip over semantic differences and larp as intellectuals.

[@nadura55]

He is enslaved to his own grudges , contempt and helpless against his own corruption. That’s the trick the devil tries to sell you when he calls you the slave

[@andywomack3414]

Did Jordan Peterson write the script for this? Only the Great Mind of Peterson could make sense of this nonsense dialogue.

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

okay, i can easily then say God is slaved to his own dismay/contempt/disapproval of those that rebels against his wishes, (with the freewill he gave them) and at the sometime, being all forgiving, all loving, all merciful creates or allows a place of eternal damnation and torture for fallen angel and especially cruelly, humans. But he is THE most forgiving and merciful being... then at 1st rebellion, forever damnation. No second chances. sounds paradoxical? Also why would an all powerful and by definition fully complete being even need or desire worshipping.

[@andywomack3414]

@@theportraitartxiaonan1370 I saw an interview with the survivor of a devastating flood. He thanked god for his survival. Did he thank god for the death and destruction he survived?

[@K3nny24]

No demon has been to hell in scripture. Legion asked Jesus “have you come to torment us before our time?” Only a man that is lost has been to hell. When you hear ppl say they’ve been to hell and saw Satan in a thrown and demons tormenting ppl you can be assured that person is a liar because demons have no desire to go to a place that was designed for them to be tormented in.

[@kathydethman7218]

You're wrong.

[@K3nny24]

@ please explain using the word of God.

[@MCClark]

You speak truth, and the person who ask explain using God’s Word; (Luke 16: 19- 31)… No one can come back after death, no messages, no signs from the dead; once you’re dead, that’s it… And I’ll add also (Ecclesiastes 9: 5 & Matthew 25: 41) for good measure…

[@popebiscuit3443]

@@K3nny24 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men . . . 2 Peter 2:4-7 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Jude 6-7 Some were locked away but not all. Some asked for a reprieve so that they could torment the wicked to bring them to God, and God allows them to do so.

[@jamescuttler8047]

If religious people actually understood the scripture they wouldn’t be religious

[@ArnoldsDesign]

Good movie. It's amazing what can be done with a minimalist set, and great writing and acting.

[@mischake]

This is a very good scene, what's the movie called?

[@chucksolutions4579]

This is brilliantly written

[@Electricsheep86]

Is it? This is typical Religious claptrap. God has no responsibility for what is wrong with the World. It's shameful and pandering.

[@jsmall10671]

I did like the ideas, but when you realize that this entire movie was just proselytizing, it ruins it. The whole thing about abortion was just laughably stupid and non-canonical.

[@vaviloffx]

...but terribly, terribly performed. When your only shtick is grotesquely twitching mouth, it's not very good acting.

[@chucksolutions4579]

@@jsmall10671 “stupid and non-canonical.” What does that mean?

[@chucksolutions4579]

@@vaviloffxI have not seen the movie but I thought it was good. The constant hunger and thirst that can never be quenched. In fact hunger/thirst are mere shadow of the appetite being portrayed, the closest human physical expression of the desires.

[@REM1956]

Great writing, and the actor playing the demon is just fantastic. What an agitated, creepy performance. Just watching him puts you on edge.

[@supervike1]

Right on. The dude was compelling and repulsive all at once. Very cool performance.

[@chichi775]

When the demon refused that poor soul, his last meal was so so disturbing to me! Just shows the pure evil

[@solomon1021]

The demon seems like he got his facial ticks from Heath Ledgers joker in the Dark Knight

[@721rena]

More like the facial ticks come from many people who suffer from severe psychosis and drug addiction

[@Mr379789]

Interesting to see demon in prisoner's appearance

[@EphemeralProductions]

That’s because the demon was inside the dude and controlling him. :)

[@hannibalwolffe506]

James ultimately took the deal Nefarious offered him. Nefarious explains that it’s the small choices that lead to greater and greater sins, the greatest being the denial of God’s power to save his soul. By accepting Satan’s authority to save his life at the cost of his soul, James acknowledges Nefarious’s supposed right over life and death, effectively making Nefarious his god. This eventually leads to full possession. Remember, Nefarious’s goal was for James to publish his book. When James says 'god help me,' it’s clear he’s referring to Nefarious as 'god' with a lowercase 'g.' This is confirmed when James publishes the book and Nefarious is still able to speak to him at the end.

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

that's one interpretation. the other is he never took the deal, (in the execution room when demon asked about it one last time) before possessing him since he gave full permission. Hence the demon took over his body, grabbed a gun and try to end his life as punishment. the fact gun didn't go off for 3 rounds means something divine protected him. He then published the book, but not the same one demon wrote, he re-wrote to serve as a warning to not fall for Demon's words. If he really did everything demon wanted him to like publish the exactly book etc. There is no need for demon making contact with him again at the end.

[@hannibalwolffe506]

@@theportraitartxiaonan1370 Sorry for the 3 parts KZbin will delete otherwise, Thanks for the comment here's my understanding. if you watch the film in the context of what leads up to and follows Edwards last scene, were James was speaking to Nefarious when he had the gun. Remember, the first time he denied God, it was to save his life. Now, rewatch the interview at the end when he’s asked, ‘Are you a believer?’ His response, ‘I don’t know if I’d go that far,’ marks the third time he denies Christ-this time with full knowledge and without fear.

[@hannibalwolffe506]

Also, remember that Christian faith is made perfect through works-by acting in ways that demonstrate true belief. James published the book. While you could argue that the book was altered, Nefarious never said it couldn’t be changed by James-only that it was his will for James to publish it.

[@hannibalwolffe506]

Now, taking the ending into context during the execution scene: who was James speaking to in order to save his worldly life at the expense of his soul? His ‘god,’ the one who delivered him from death. The movie literally ends with Nefarious smiling proudly, followed by a cut to the credits. The black background from which Nefarious is laughing as the credits begin symbolizes that he is now speaking from within James’ mind.

[@theportraitartxiaonan1370]

@@hannibalwolffe506 I think it is designed so there is good evidence for either way. cuz 1) no lucifer's side/demon side like the word God. Demon use the word enemy whenever refer to God and Master whenever refer to Satan. Both of which are less about the nature of those beings, but about demon's relationship to those beings. 2) Follow that then when James shakes his head in the execution room to clearly reject "will you take my master's offer". in the same scene or near it he then says help me God. He rejected Satan's offer, then he used a word Satan himself doesn't want his demon followers to say. Satan and Demons alike hate this word and he doesn't even want his most loyal fallen angel to call him that. He doesn't want to replace God so much as he wants to hurt God through man since no one can do it directly. If he wanted to become God he would have everyone call him that, but he want everyone to call him Master. A new boss, very much not like the current unfair one from his point of view. 3)assume James is not lying in the interview. There are two things happened: a) a force made him draw the gun and point at his own head and pull the trigger 3 times. b) a force that made all those 3 times null and saves his life. God certainly wouldn't make him unalive himself, that's a sin plus if god wanted that it WOULD happen since God is still omnipotent. Therefore God is the force that made the 3 triggers null. 4) Demon want him to publish "HIS/Demon's book, not anybook, or anybook as long as it used any part of demon's manuscript. The dark gospel is no longer the dark gospel when it is heavily altered. Plus he rejected the offer, using the life that Demon try to take away but God gave back, to publish a warning. 5) It's a forever mission, Demon won't see this as a defeat, more as a detraction. And James still did gave them full permission to enter. And James is now one of the most influential figure given the context. Of course Demon smiles, there is still a lot of stuff they can try. He is still useful to them. If he accepted the offer and published exact manuscript, then there is really no need for him anymore. They would just messing around or leave him alone for james' reminder life.

[@vincycode8726]

4:32 one of the most powerful line in this movie

[@FaithfulPain]

ive watched these clips multiple times and only now realized that the guy playing the prisoner looks straight into the camera when talking, like hes talking to us watching.

[@randymillhouse791]

"Well, good talk. Would you like a soda or something?"

[@bearhall4919]

This movie was so much better than I was expecting in today's movie climate.

[@johngeorgiadis4842]

What is the name of the movie?

[@AbideandBelieve]

@@johngeorgiadis4842 nefarious

[@pavelsimonyan7973]

Demons are like any addict.Trill of the Game.Of course they know more.

[@kingston163]

Knowing more does not make them wise ..... look where it got them!

[@johnsmith23ist]

@@kingston163exactly like they claim to be too wise but they don’t realize that makes them more responsible and highly accountable

[@daves2822]

Jesus is Lord, kneel before him, Humble yourself and ask for his forgiveness, mercy and his grace. Be sincere and true.. may his righteousness be upon you brothers and sisters. Please pray for me for I am a sinner and am fighting temptation and my sin. Lord have mercy on me.

[@AbideandBelieve]

Praying for you @daves2822, the fact that you're stuggling with sin and not just accepting it as a way of life is the first step! In Jesus Name!

[@PaulStringini]

I like the way he complains about slavery under God while repeatedly referring to "my master."

[@DaMonster]

This criminal guy is telling a great fairy tale, but the doctor should probably prescribe an antipsychotic... :(

[@XooxyBoo]

Idk if your joking but you know In the movie, within the compounds of this movie, within this script which is fiction, demons exist…….? In other words, I don’t know if you’re joking or not but within the movie, THAT is actually a demon bro. Just like seeing a marvel movie, Thor and Iron Man exists. This is not a guy within the movie going through a psychotic meltdown, but an actual demon…….

[@fifonefifty]

Pride is the reason for all there rebellions.

[@maxiebon1]

The could just be fighting for there own free will to be an option. As we know that it really isn't. Even if you abide by the rules of god, he still wants you to surrender

[@garybrown2039]

And envy

[@55Quirll]

@@maxiebon1 Agreed, they acknowledge his existence,, they just don't won't to worship him, what is so wrong with that? Unless you look to the rulers to NK and see what happens to those who fail to worship him.

[@szylaj]

yes, all the slave revolutions that happened in US was purely out of pride

[@Belmont1714]

​@@55Quirll"What is so wrong with that?" That's the dumbest question you could possibly ask 🤦‍♂️

[@kimdawcatgirl]

But God is worthy to be praised. The devils believe and tremble. - The Bible

[@aceknowledgable9403]

This only confirms that Hell is both a state of being (physical reality) and a place (nonphysical reality) and if humanity is just a means to an end, then we need Christ/God more than ever. Let us all pray and be close with our Lord and Savior, our Creator, our Father.

[@jsmall10671]

Hell is a place of fiery torment, your jesus explicitly said so. Don't be afraid of dealing with your god's evils.

[@rembrandthpc]

I remember movies where the vampire isn't impressed with a Crucifix because the victim "lacks faith". That should not happen since the moment you see a real vampire and know what he's capable of, you then have to know that evil exists, therefore good exists, instantly confirming ones faith. tl,dr: If there's a Devil, there must be a God.

[@oldbatwit5102]

The logic of a 12 year old.

[@NateB]

Why does the existence of a demon mean it’s the devil? And why would that mean God exists? Not that I think that, but your logic is not sound.

[@jamescuttler8047]

If there is a devil then god isn’t worth worshipping because what kind of all powerful, all good being would create the epitome of evil just to torture souls?

[@ADHD_Gamer]

Jeremiah 1:5 says, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.” This implies that our traits and limitations-physical, mental, social-were chosen by a Creator before we had any say. Born without wings, we can’t fly; born with certain abilities or disabilities, we’re confined to those limits. Free will is then just an illusion, a way to feel in control, when really, our choices are restricted by the conditions set prior to birth and consciousness. Like a ball dropped from a height, our path is largely predetermined.

[@Ponera-Sama]

Who knew this Christian movie would make such a great argument against the idea that God is loving and merciful.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

Well, I mean, the Old Testament already kind of makes that argument...

[@jsmall10671]

@@benwheeler4223 They don't counteract the atrocities of the OT. See, this is the problem with claims of perfection. It only takes one mistake to prove the claim wrong. Y'all should have just stuck with "Really loving" instead of "All loving"

[@waxbruh5965]

@@jsmall10671atrocities? By what standard are you judging God?

[@HelloH-ku3cj]

You need JESUS.

[@Ponera-Sama]

You need KIM IL-SUNG.

[@robertgenuario3435]

Very well done... CS Lewis would be proud 😊

[@Eddietorres1959]

Who? Is that a movie?

[@robertgenuario3435]

@Eddietorres1959 Hi Eddie, CS Lewis is a well know Christian author and defender of the faith from the WW2 era +-. He wrote Mere Christianity and more specifically to this case the Screwtape Letters. Worth checking out. Hope you are well.

[@YoutubeISPROPAGANDA]

@@Eddietorres1959LMAOOO 😂

[@mattwalters6834]

That guy did a great job in acting, even his voice sounds menacing.

[@geraldjohnson8871]

Slave to one master or the other. The difference is the Eternal reward from the beginning to our Eternal End. I choose to live and if l suffer for good in this life l will be rewarded in the Next Life with my God. AMEN Creator.

[@55Quirll]

Eternal Worshiping? That is just as much punishment as Eternal damnation

[@thetavibes9021]

@geraldjohnson8871 Salvation isn't obtained through faith... it's obtained through knowledge (gnosis) You're not a follower... You're just a fan. You don't have Christ consciousness.

[@geraldjohnson8871]

@thetavibes9021 @t t v9021. If what you say is true then You are in big Trouble, Knowledge Comes by Faith Of the One and Only (haya) Father of all Spirits. AMEN. 1. Corinthians 8:1, vs2 If any man think that he know any thing, he knows Nothing,yet as he ought to know. AMEN.

[@geraldjohnson8871]

@@55Quirll @55 q. your thoughts will lead you to your Destiny. AMEN.

[@55Quirll]

@@geraldjohnson8871 My destiny is already set, as is everyone else and no one can change there's

[@jaymiddleton5807]

If I was the doctor I would’ve laughed and said “You’re a Kevin Smith fan. You took most of that speech from the 1999 movie Dogma! POSER”

[@iusedyourtowel6765]

This sympathetic backstory about poor demons' feelings is not found in the Bible, despite it being re-hashed again and again and again in movies.

[@NateB]

Isn’t it from Milton

[@jamescuttler8047]

@@iusedyourtowel6765yeah the whole mythology on demons basically came from non canon texts written hundreds of years after the bible but they act like it’s gospel truth

[@wwld9823]

the demon wonders why he was given will if he can't use it, but he did use it, he used will to rebel and now has a new "master" he answers to, he had will and now he has nothing, just hatred

[@vitaliyjuterbog8912]

Leading and false equivalence at about 0:33

[@kylemoore801]

Irrelevant comment.

[@zepplysZen]

Sure, this is a movie. This is not real.

[@--Nabe-rius--]

If this stuff was real I don't actually understand why people would side with god after everything I've read in the books? It seems the lucifer one had a solid argument and god handled it poorly.

[@zachmercer1065]

A surface reading of the Bible without any historical aid misses nearly all of the context required to properly understand it. It’s not a timeless document written for modern English speakers in the 21st Century, it’s a 2000 year old document written in multiple ancient languages and multiple ancient writing styles, and primarily for ancient Israelites, 1st-4th Century Jews and Greek-speaking gentiles. We have a translation that goes from the original Greek and Hebrew into Latin, then into Old German, then Old English, then modern English, and allot of the original meaning, idioms and cultural references get lost in translation. When you do have the context, original meaning and writer’s intent all together, it makes allot more sense as to why people side with God who payed the price humanity owed for justice himself despite people failing to fulfill the oaths of the covenant God made with us multiple times throughout history. The demonic is also decidedly NOT a side any human would want to take, they actually just utterly despise us and always will.

[@jamescuttler8047]

@@zachmercer1065all those words and you said nothing of value

[@zachmercer1065]

@@jamescuttler8047 Well, you do need to be able to read what I said to comprehend it, so I can understand if you aren’t able to gather what was important there. But if you want a tldr; the Bible is easily misunderstood if you just read it as is, you need context that was never intended to be included within it to rightly understand most of what’s in it. So, when you have read it and understood it in its entirety, it’s clear God is definitively good and Satan is neither good nor relatable in any capacity. And the reason for rebelling the guy playing a demon in the movie gives isn’t the reason why the demons rebelled.

[@bait5257]

What solid argument does Satan even have??? Who said he was stopped from asking for forgiveness??

[@TheOnlyBiodude]

The problem with Demons - These fallen angels are perfect beings that knew God personally and despite that they still denied God's authority despite all they know and are.

[@TylerDurden-oy2hm]

well i have to say the umm actor playing the demon was superb in the role..very very good.there were shades of heath ledgers joker.(RIP Heath).very deep subjects.

[@Snarflelocker]

it was the way he moved his tongue inside his mouth, Heath's Joker did that a lot. I thought the same thing.

[@ST-fh3ti]

Hard to believe that that is the same actor who played Indiana Jones in the young Indiana Jones adventures TV show.

[@jamescuttler8047]

Do not fucking disrespect Heath Ledger like that you pos

[@missmaggie5509]

This was a wonderful performance from Sean Patrick Flannery

[@andrewcruz3837]

Your instagram would be wonderful

[@viswaprasanna941]

"An apology for the devil: it must be remembered that we have heard one side of the case. God has written all the books." Samuel Butler

[@joshuadelgado1286]

He loves you. He also loved him all of them and they chose to rebel

[@bodricthered]

Loved them so much he built an eternal torture chamber for them and chucked them in it for not loving him.... Look up abusive relationship sometime...

[@Swaggmire215]

Love is not constraining someone to servitude and punishing them for not serving. Slavery is not love and I grew up in a religious household

[@lydiadillard4417]

Watch Fr. Ripperger. The demons created hell. When they rebelled.

[@shadow7988]

Lol yeah loved them so much he created hell and to this day chucks billions to eternal torment for failing to meet arbitrary and impossible to meet standards. Christianity is the most self-hating, shame-packed religion ever created.

[@LetYahArisee]

​​​@@Swaggmire215You are punished by the choices that are not made for the good of you or those around you but just selfishness. You reap what you sow. The way of the Creator is perfect and if one chooses to not follow in it, they destroy themselves. There is a Plan to build a Kingdom in His way, this life is a testing phase.

[@joebenzz]

The fact that they want to hurt "him" in any means necessary shows that there is love under all of that. It's like saying that you're heartbroken and don't love anything. Heartbroken just implies the hidden love under the pain and suffering which very much looks like what he's saying in there. If there was no love, there would be no big motive to hurt God, there would be total indifference. Rage implies love, hatred implies ignorance.

[@JesterSpecter]

"I know more theology than any human being who has ever lived." a shockingly accurate description of demons.

[@thebustosfamily]

sean patrick flanery is an ok actor but he was great in this movie. The way he switched personality was beautifully done.

[@matthewmatt5285]

Time has not been kind to him,.. He's unrecognizable almost~

[@justinbranham7708]

"You're nothing but a means to an end." That says a whole lot in a short space. We matter very little to them only suitable for causing God anguish. We are everything to the God who made us in His image. Big difference.

[@supraguardian]

As someone who has spent years in this ministry, every once in a while you will get snippets of a conversation like this, especially about their superiority or the rebellion. But this would be more authentic if there was boasting (I have never met anyone who boasts more than a demon, especially one that doesn't think it will be exorcised (by the power of Jesus-not my own), and it would be more authentic with lots of misdirection and deceit. This is too calm and straightforward to be realistic. But kinda reminiscent of conversations had, for sure.

[@Ch4rlz_ThA_Princ3]

They adapt, James.

[@sdimagpie6854]

If you don't mind someone asking, what denomination are you? I've watched tons of exorcist interviews but most of them are only catholic. Nothing at all wrong with that, I was just curious as to the similarities and differences other denomination exorcists may have seen.

[@peterc.4143]

Along with being anti-abortion, this movie was also decidedly anti-capital punishment, which I appreciate. That is the truly Christian position, as far as I’m concerned. Pro-life in every aspect. The death penalty is barbaric, and I’m happy a Christian conservative movie recognized that by showing that the Dr. who signed his death warrant was effectively committing murder.

[@surfdocer103]

You forgot the"in my opinion".

[@peterc.4143]

@surfdocer103 I did say “which I appreciate”, “as far as I’m concerned”, and “I’m happy that…”. In other words, these are my opinions, but yes I recognize being against the death penalty is not a universally accepted position within mainstream Christianity. But I do personally find more and more Christians, especially of the younger generation, being anti-death penalty, but that’s just an observation.

[@slickwillie3186]

What of women who, without an abortion, would die? Isn’t refusing them medical care murder too?

[@marcmelvin3010]

@@slickwillie3186In the first place, such medically-necessitated abortions are vanishingly rare, and in the second place, when there is no other option, no woman is “refused medical care”. The line you are using has been a staple of the pro-abortion crowd for decades, and it was a lie in 1972, and it’s still a lie now.

[@jamescuttler8047]

@@surfdocer103people like this can’t seperate their opinion from reality

[@biggienorm420]

The whole idea should have been thrown out the window the moment humans realized that earth isn't the center of the universe...