Nekoda-NC | Abortion Is Morally Wrong | Talk Heathen 06.14

Talk Heathen 06.14 for April 3, 2022 with JMike and @Student Doctor Ben.
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[@Rage867]

"Most abortions are provided for no reason." I'm pretty sure someone not wanting to be pregnant is one hell of a good reason.

[@perryegolson833]

It's the patient's decision to terminate the pregnancy. THAT'S the only reason that matters.

[@skagenpige88]

@@perryegolson833 What a horrible thing to say....Even if it dont go above the patients choice there are possibly uncountable reasons that matter. Your a horrible person for leaving that important part out.

[@krisaaron5771]

@@skagenpige88 What "important part" of the pro-choice argument are you referring to? Perrye Golson didn't list every reason for a patient's decision to terminate a pregnancy, just that it should be her decision. Please clarify what you meant.

[@skagenpige88]

@@krisaaron5771 Well the first one that come to mind is that she regret having an abortion later? Was it really her choice then?

[@Rage867]

@@skagenpige88 you are a horrible person for trying to control what other people can do with their own bodies. But you wouldn't understand that.

[@austinhernandez2716]

He said if it puts the mother's life at risk then abortion is okay. But there's ALWAYS a risk for the mother. So he argued for abortion but didn't realize it.

[@Sanxioned1]

Not to mention it's a consistent 9 months and months and years afterwards of having one's body utterly mangled. In no other area of life would we accept this behaviour from one person to another, even if we concede personhood to a fetus. Why should it get to mutilate the woman's body for so long?

[@skagenpige88]

Facts.

[@gregsanich5183]

That's precisely why abortions need to be mandatory. Nobody should ever be subjected to the kind of health risks that pregnancy involves. Any other activity with that potential for causing harm, is always strictly regulated. Pregnancy shouldn't be any different.

[@cmack17]

​@@gregsanich5183 Burp

[@gregsanich5183]

@cmack17 very compelling and insightful.

[@keithulhu]

Nekoda, listen up. Sex is not consent to becoming pregnant, and being pregnant is not consent to remaining pregnant. Pregnancy can be a high risk proposition which can permanently alter a woman's body and health status forever.

[@meloveAi]

I'm always interested in how these anti-abortion folk would respond if men can also become pregnant, like seahorses.

[@jaege]

If men could become pregnant then Walmart would legally offer medical abortions as an outpatient procedure for less than 50 bucks.

[@artistryartistry7239]

So there's no moral component to an abortion at all, is that what you're saying?

[@keithulhu]

None whatsoever. A moral component is shit religious fanatics made up.

[@jaege]

@@artistryartistry7239 What I am saying is, for the men in power that make the laws, morality isn't an issue. I am not even sure they know what the word means.

[@mewho6199]

No one has the right to the use of another person's body without sustained permission. Period. Taking ownership and control of another's body for your own use or for someone else's use without sustained permission of the body's owner is truly immoral. We don't need to waste time arguing nuance. The decision to terminate a pregnancy or carry it to term is solely up to the pregnant person and that person does not need to justify that decision to anyone.

[@OswaldBatesIIIEsq]

Taking away a woman's rights is SO 19th century.

[@mastone3609]

Yea. I think the conversations about abortion give too much ground. It doesn't matter whether the mother used protection or not, it doesn't matter whether you define the fetus or a living human or not, etc etc etc. Bodily autonomy is uninfringable. If you decide to not have another human inside you, they do not get to be there. Period.

[@Lupinemancer87]

Hosts: "What do you think Abortion is?" Caller: "The killing of a human." Hosts: "Abortion is the termination of a pregnency." Caller: "Everyone knows what Abortion means." Clearly not, cuz you called it something it was not.

[@gregsanich5183]

What's the difference?

[@AlexeiX1]

@@gregsanich5183the difference is that you can’t kill something that isn’t alive, and the word abortion refers to the state of pregnancy.

[@gregsanich5183]

@@AlexeiX1 if it's not alive, then why wouldn't need to terminate it.

[@AlexeiX1]

@@gregsanich5183 you don’t terminate it you terminate the pregnancy.

[@gregsanich5183]

@@AlexeiX1 uh huh, ... right, 🙄 well if you feel that hiding behind feeble symantics to evade or sidestep the actual point of contention is a sufficient enuf reason to warrant your conviction in that belief, for you, that's your perogative I suppose. But simply changing the vocabulary that describes it to be more ambiguous doesn't change the reality of what is actualy happening. .....like if we keep playing your game, .... what do you describe a pregnancy as, exactly?

[@adeofbass]

Well, well....another man with an opinion on something that he will never experience. Shock horror.

[@gregsanich5183]

@@adeofbass men are responsible for 100% of pregnancies

[@arthurunknown8972]

High risk women from Muslim family on birth control gets raped seeks abortion of cell cluster, caller thinks that's for her convenience.

[@perryegolson833]

Another man making a healthcare decision on behalf of other women whom he does not know, but somehow he feels entitled to do so. All due to his bullshit grievance politics. What a sucker this clown is. He'll spend the rest of his life voting against his own best interests.

[@skagenpige88]

It actually might be...her survival even....have you seen what happen to people that get raped in some of those countrys when they report it/get an abortion after it?

[@asdfjkl5713]

This dude has never thought thru his ideals. He just is mad at women who he feels like they should be punished for sleeping around.

[@TheSnoeedog]

He's one of those idiots that actually buys into the notion that (and forgive me, I'm not slut-shaming, but trying to underscore the caller's deficiencies...) *a slut is a woman who sleeps with everyone at the party; a bitch sleeps with everyone but you*

[@2ndbreakfast29]

Jmike and Ben thank you for putting this guy on the spot. What a garbage person, I'll definitely call him when I need an organ donated unwillingly.

[@Kaylakaze]

What you're missing, Ben, is that it IS Nekoda's decision because he's a man. And a right-wing, God-fearing manly man, at that, which means what he says is far more important than any woman or know-it-all college boy doctor who thinks he knows things just because he had all that book learnin'.

[@beverly719]

😜👍

[@user-cr4pz5yg7y]

Facts. Applies, in full, to each and every conservative man.

[@demontooth0428]

I'm glad Nekoda is around for me to hook up to if I ever need one of his organs.

[@user-xb1ht4py2v]

Be careful, that kind of stupidity could wear off. And STUPID he is!!!!

[@afroatheist-isnowafroantit6154]

😆😆

[@Skiller131]

It** these psychopaths aren't human beings

[@Shibbylovess]

Doctor Ben puts such a big smile on my face. He’s such a great host ❤️

[@TalkHeathen]

We love SDB!

[@sfprivateer]

I can't remember the hostess's name in AXP but she said: "If men could get pregnant, we would never ever be having these conversations. there would be abortion packs available in every single street corner stores." So beast! So true!

[@Byorin]

To be fair, that sounds like an argument ad populum fallacy. Whether 0% of men or 100% of men support abortion would not make it moral or not, unless we define it as such.

[@jaege]

If men could get pregnant then it would be an outpatient procedure, available at Walmart for 5 bucks a pop.

[@TheSnoeedog]

on neither case am I certain, but I believe it was Clare Wuarner(spelling?), and I think the line was that "if men could get pregnant, you'd be able to get an abortion at 7-11"

[@TheSnoeedog]

@@Byorin I don't think it's an ad populum. It's a tongue-in-cheek allusion to the idea that if abortions were something men could need too then the discussion wouldn't be a moral one...it likely wouldn't be a discussion at all. I don't hear any controversy surrounding whether knee, hip or kidney replacements being something that only one sex is entitled to based on such and such a scripture. Medical procedures that both sexes can undergo wouldn't be discussed in any sort of "ethical" or "moral" context the way the anti-woman advocates like to invoke for discussions about abortion. That's not an ad populum fallacy (you'll perhaps note that I'm not suggesting it's a moral issue at all, now, rather it's twisted into that be the anti-woman bigots at the moment and it wouldn't fly as well if all of the men - whose influence includes preventing their wives, sisters and daughters from getting an abortion - were pregnant from time to time, because abortion would be another normalized medical procedure)

[@Byorin]

@@TheSnoeedog hello and thanks for the reply. Your examples are a false equivalence. Of course a knee, hip or kidney are not considered a moral issue, but not because both sexes can get them. They are not comparable to a fetus, which some people argue is human life that they want to protect. If a knee by itself could grow into a fully developed human, there would be protesters probably fighting to prohibit anyone trying to damage them as well. Don’t get me wrong, I agree that some (many or most?) men would probably change their pro-life views, if they could get pregnant and needed an abortion. I’m not convinced though that this would be a foregone conclusion. Keep in mind that there are many female voters who are anti abortion. In other words, a lot of “wives, sisters and daughters” do not support your stance, even if they are often painted as voting against their own interests. Anyway, thanks again and have a good day.

[@jifremantle4790]

I am fascinated that the the anti choice callers are all men. Why are men so keen to tell women what to do with their bodies? No doubt there are many women who are anti choice and I would live to hear from them

[@williamtarry4405]

My sister is entirely anti-abortion. Her reasoning is: Life begins at conception, abortion is murder and God is against murder. Therefore, I will always be against abortions and never vote for a pro-abortion politician. This is yet another reason I've deconverted away from being a Christian.

[@MizterMissile]

I feel many of them want revenge for having to pay child support. "Men don't get a child support " Okay, not comparable. Child support doesn't risk your life, pregnancy does. Plus, I truly don't know how common it is for them to be arrested for failure to pay. And that's on you, if you decided to be reckless with where you decided to cum. If it's a rea concern, why you playing. I hear all these men say "it's too risky to be with women alone at work anymore, I don't wanna get me too'd." Why doesn't the same go for where you toss your fluids? They just seem so vindictive about not having the ability to punish women for liking sex. And then the anti-choice women, I just have no clue what their thing is. It's such a bummer.

[@OswaldBatesIIIEsq]

@@williamtarry4405 God is against murder? Really? So, sacrificing your only son to be killed doesn't count? God continues to contradict himself.

[@williamtarry4405]

@@OswaldBatesIIIEsq that is definitely one of the inconsistencies I point out to my sister, which she deflects. I agree with you, the god of the Bible has a large number of contradictions just on his stances alone, much less his actions according to the Bible.

[@artistryartistry7239]

What does the gender of the person have to do with the rationality of their argument? How is that relevant?

[@2l84me8]

This caller just wants to play hero at someone else’s expense. He wants to judge and shame people for conceiving when literally none of this is any of his business.

[@OpticalArxenal]

This guy has no idea what he's talking about, he just doesn't like it. Good job holding him to task.

[@morbidrob]

just asking if fetuses are people, why they are not counted on the census? when child support is calulated, do they account for the time in the womb? do fetuses deaths count on daily statistics? do fetuses have more rights? ✌🏼

[@wunnell]

Foetuses are supposedly the equal of birthed children, according to anti-abortionists, and yet let's see how much sympathy they give a woman who miscarries compared to a woman whose child dies from SIDS or the like. If they really considered a foetus the equal of a birthed child then they would consider those two "deaths" to be equal but women miscarry all the time and there's no wailing or gnashing of teeth from anti-abortionists. We know that what they really care about is punishing women for what they consider immoral sex.

[@Tonyblack261]

I often think these blokes that are anti abortion, tend to argue that a woman should suffer the consequences of having unprotected sex.

[@AlexeiX1]

That is what it actually is though. Cheap false misogynistic Christian morality

[@natlegend]

They're low-key incels that want women to be punished for not having sex with them.

[@SCHRODINGERS_WHORE]

Yeah

[@lulolie]

And they always, always, always ignore the realities of rape. It's infuriating and dishonest to the extreme.

[@annaschofield]

Interesting how he flipped back and forth about the morality of abortion depending on how he defined it

[@elainejohnson6955]

Loved Doctor Ben's take on the subject. Every single pregnant woman in America needs to call a hotline to talk to Nakota in order for him to individually make their medical decisions for them, judge them, then he personally needs to make sure there is enough child support for each of the child births that result, and take responsibility for the choices he made if the woman has any physical or emotional conditions including the deaths of any woman that arise from his bad decisions. He will be very busy doing that since he believes the women are obviously incompetent to make those decisions for themselves. I'm sure he will also be deciding which men to give vasectomies to, so they don't cause unwanted pregnancies with their reckless behaviors as well.

[@noskpain2792]

Nothing but what aboutism. The only viable reason is risk of death

[@cwillis92]

When did either of them cut him off? They asked questions he either avoided or clearly didn't answer honestly

[@robinvan1983]

I always find these Abortion chats so boring. It is always : I don't want to do abortion and women should close their leggs. and I find it personally fine to force that onto others because I am right

[@Ataraxia_Atom]

I use the example of driving a car. We all accept driving a car is dangerous, yet we do it every day. If you cause a car crash in which the other person is going to die without input from you (like taking your kidney, something that would not kill you) should the state require you to save them or do you have the body autonomy to choose. And this isn't a moral question it's whether the state can require your body to save this person that your actions harmed.

[@debraperry6091]

To take the car example to a more basic level. You willingly get behind the wheel and get into a crash. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. A chunk of metal goes through your leg. A simple medical procedure would fix it. But it was your choice to get behind the wheel, which makes you a stupid, reckless driver, so you don't get medical help for your problem. You can survive losing a leg. You must want the simple medical procedure for convenience, stupid driver. You need to be punished. So you have to live with the consequences. You'll definitely lose the leg. There's a chance you could die. But the operation is just for your convenience because you couldn't keep it in the house, so you have to live with the consequences.

[@jrasicmark1]

When he resorted to abstinence when all of his other arguments failed, I wish they had asked him how long he has been abstinent. Or if he happens to be married, and is already a father, and doesn't care if he has more mouths to feed because he can afford it, ask him what's the longest period of time he's been abstinent his entire life. Because every single time he has had sex, he was rolling the dice on having a baby. Condoms are one form of birth control that is more prone to failure than most. They should ask him to imagine having if every single time he had sex, it ended with a pregnancy, how many children would he have to care for by now?

[@meloveAi]

Not to mention non-consensual impregnation. The...R-word, if you will. There could metaphorically be a woman who has chosen abstinence for personal reasons, and then one sadistic F-word guy comes in and forces himself on her.

[@artistryartistry7239]

Your entire argument is a logical fallacy, since what he does and doesn't do has no bearing on the rationality of his argument.

[@jrasicmark1]

@@artistryartistry7239 I think it kind of does. If he's saying abstinence is a legitimate alternative that works in preventing pregnancy, it would help if he could demonstrate that he or anyone else could abstain for long periods of time. I mean, how is his argument rational if his solution does not work for most people on this planet? Most humans just don't seem to have that degree of self control. Ask the one of the foremost proponents of abstinence, Bristol Palin, who has two children from two different fathers.

[@jrasicmark1]

@@artistryartistry7239 He's also implying that he believes no one should ever have sex unless they are planning on making babies. I suspect he often engages in it without family planning in mind.

[@artistryartistry7239]

​@@jrasicmark1 There are all sorts of things, that are too numerous to name that people are expected to do which run contrary to their strongest impulses. Second, you cannot impose your values on him. If he believes that aborting a child is a graver situation than not having recreational sex (sex for fun), who are you to say that recreational sex should be a more important ethical consideration? He operates from the assumption that fetuses have no one advocating for them (and that they should), while plenty of people are advocating for women. And if a fetus will become a life, he thinks it is a life in bloom, and it is. The distinction between a fetus and a baby is a scientific one, not a philosophical one or ethical. Do you love life? Are you happy that you were not aborted? Well life is being taken from others through abortion, and they will never have or experience what we cherish so dearly. Now, you can say you don't give a rats ass about that, but how can you claim that no one should?

[@kaiza6467]

I wonder, is we made it mandatory for people living in North Carolina to give up their kidney when someone needs it in the name of “saving lives”, would the caller have a problem with that? It’s a long process that takes months, the preparation work affects your day to day life and it changes your body forever. If he asks why I, someone who doesn’t live in North Carolina and isn’t affected by this at all is making that call, I can just say “why not?”. For some reason I get the feeling he wouldn’t be ok with his bodily autonomy being violated by someone else like that. 🤔

[@MJspaceH]

Jmike lost his game-face, in response to the abortion definition, with that chuckle. Sometimes laughter is the only option in the face of such wilful ignorance.

[@jens2old2care]

Listening to this caller is excruciating. He thinks his taxes is actually caring for mothers and babies??? I guess in his mind there is no poverty and there's universal health care. The audacity and misogyny are STRONG in this one.

[@ZenWithKen]

We as a society have the responsibility to handle tough situations such as a woman, who for whatever reason, requires an end to a pregnancy. That decision has nothing to do with how we feel about it and everything to do with the best interest of the woman.

[@DANISEVIL]

i am full blown pro abortion if she wants to have 1 or 20 it is none of our damn business

[@Scarabswarm]

Interesting tack SDB, I'd love to see it repeated with a more honest caller. Getting them out of this fantasy bubble, where they imagine the worst of everyone, may be the best start to changing minds. Engaging their empathy, over their indignation.

[@chriskelly3481]

Yeah. Nekoda was sending and not receiving. Just waiting the whole time to finish his ignorant rant. Utterly unprepared for the level of knowledge and nuance coming his way.

[@Scarabswarm]

@@chriskelly3481 Yeah, that was the early litmus test. "I have a 3 minute rant, can I start?" "No" "Oh okay... (starts obviously reading from a script)" After hearing that, I was sure nothing he said would be of any consequence. Good on SDB for making this call interesting.

[@idahogie]

I agree with you that SDB presented an interesting argument. But I fear that overuse of it would lead people to believe that there are "bad" reasons to get an abortion.

[@Scarabswarm]

@@idahogie I suppose the next step then would be to get the caller to agree that, barring a medical degree and intimate knowledge of the specifics, they are unqualified to determine what a "good" or "bad" reason is.

[@idahogie]

@@Scarabswarm in this case, that's where an honest caller would have ended up. But still, I'd rather not leave anti-choicers with the notion that they would be justified in opposing abortions if they just knew the reasons. In reality, every reason for an abortion is a good reason.

[@MegaeffinGarchomp17]

Sad part is guys like this are who are making these decisions on abortion...

[@jens2old2care]

Basically a lot of men consider pregnancy and motherhood a consequence of our actions- because we shouldn't be acting like "wh*res" and having sex in the first place. Super gross opinion tbh.

[@duanegoodine6709]

Stopped after his definition of abortion. Not worth 10 minutes of my life.

[@skagenpige88]

I may be wrong but I dont think it were as much about definition as getting a better description and details into the discussion...since he were going all black and white in a grey area

[@jens2old2care]

Seriously, how do so many adults grow up with ZERO empathy????

[@Rhaszah]

I like how this dude listened to Ben explain a multitude of medical reasons for an abortion and his immediate response was "BuT tHe WoMaN dIdN't Do EnOuGh To PrEvEnT iT" He just wanted to blame women. Well I say we need more abortion!

[@tempestive1]

I don't think I ever saw a more representative situation of "running with your tail between your legs".

[@dr.leeaberle3606]

He cut and ran. Unfortunately he didn’t get the snip as well.

[@biekgiek]

I saw this another video: Every time the abortion discussion pops up, I like to point out this quote by Dave Barnhart, a traditional Christian pastor: "'The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."

[@wabbajack2]

"Well, I'm gonna finish with my rant..." "NO!" TH in a nutshell.

[@petermeichan3160]

10:10 why do you get to make this decision ? caller: why not ? Me: cos its none of your dam business !

[@erl7466]

scripts for talk shows absolutely suck. cant think for himself at all.

[@hunterv9983]

There has yet to be an assigned female at birth woman who is pro life calling onto these shows in regards to abortion. Only ever men saying what women shouldn't be doing with their wombs. I'm a guy. I won't ever know what pregnancy is like. Perhaps that is why I'm Pro Choice. But I personally hold the position that it's the woman's right to terminate the pregnancy.

[@wunnell]

I'm fairly sure that at least one woman would have called such a show at some point because there are plenty of anti-abortion women. That said, it certainly is overwhelmingly men who make these calls. I suspect that they are very confident in judging a situation that they'll never experience. It's much like white people making bold declarations about what the lives of black people are like.

[@Nocturnalux]

While a few women have called, it is overwhelmingly men, yes. They just know what we should do with our bodies better than we do ourselves.

[@teresaamanfu7408]

Good job doctor Ben!

[@solly119119]

I don't know why hosts keep letting callers get away with comments like abortion is murder, it's killing a human being, etc.. Make them prove it! Why do the hosts let them slide so often on that? We shouldn't be giving these holier-than-thou jackasses any slack. At all.

[@bevwinn1369]

I am very impressed with Nekoda's reference to killing a whole human. How does one kill a part human?

[@miyamotoyamazaki1760]

Childish reason

[@Scarabswarm]

Ooh a riddle? Um. The answer is either "amputation", or... killing a centaur.

[@twowardrobeswardrobes1536]

Nekoda did it to me. I heard his call and part of me died.

[@rageofheaven]

"How does one kill a part human?" Student loans.

[@cordo7051]

Can you imagine how we would talk about these things if it were men who get to be pregnant?

[@tacosux691]

Do the screeners let people like this on just to get schooled? It’s hilarious

[@TalkHeathen]

Even if someone has a bad argument the screeners will let the caller on, we believe it is important to expose ideas for being bad just as much as platforming good arguments. Thanks for your question!

[@tacosux691]

@@TalkHeathen based. Thank you for replying. I love the show.

[@Ozone280]

I won't take lectures on morality from someone who takes their morality from a book of hate verses.

[@steveyuhas9278]

This was fucking brilliant the way Ben forced the caller into a corner and slapped him over the head with nuance. You could tell how terrified he was too have to admit to it, he even tried to retreat to his script because the facts and nuance terrify people like this. And the religious leaders and voices count on credulous people like this hearing the words "abortion", "murder" and "convenience" and having an emotional reaction. It causes them to get an image in their head of all pregnant people who get abortions as these callous, evil people having 3 abortions a year because they don't want to take care of children, they just want to have unprotected sex with the 30 partners they have. And when people like this are faced with the facts about what the average person looks like, goes through, and what their motivations are when they have an abortion... They have to retreat to the image in their head of the evil mother murdering babies. The caller, in my opinion, had this done to him. But he is still accountable for his really really immoral views on this. It's up to him to either become honest or remain pro life.

[@cmack17]

The caller is implying that: 1. If child support is banned along with taxpayer support, abortion is moral. 2. He trusts the court system to make the moral evaluation on abortion despite the fact that they do not make the right decision about taxes. 3. It is moral to abandon children financially if abortion is legal.

[@lulolie]

"So many options" ignoring the fact that anti-abortion states are also almost always anti-contraception.

[@cctomcat321]

Worse than that. Anti-contraception, anti-pill intervention, anti-education around the general subject, including informed consent, and a general atmosphere where women aren't treated as seriously.

[@robertcox433]

If a tree is stressed it sheds its fruits to preserve itself for another year.

[@krisaaron5771]

As a woman, I demand Nekoda donate HIS non-vital organs and body parts to save the lives of dying humans -- just like he demands women do for human fetuses! No fetus is more precious and special than any other person, and no fetus is more deserving of being kept alive than anyone else out of the womb. If one person has to allow their body to be used against their will to keep another human alive, then EVERY person -- male or female -- must do the same thing! Otherwise, demanding a woman continue an unwanted pregnancy against her will is punishment, not "saving the life of a human". Nekoda is very careful not to mention that he supports punishing women who enjoy sex but don't want to be pregnant. If he cares so much about fetal lives, why doesn't he also care about the lives of children who need a bone marrow donation to survive cancer? Why doesn't he care about the lives of adults in renal failure who need kidney transplants to live? When Nekoda signs up as an organ donor, when HIS body autonomy is threatened, I'll listen to his arguments against abortion.

[@cannibalgirl9249]

These same people who think abortion is murder, doesn't even know how a tampon works or even how eggs drop or how periods work. I think they should shut up,if they don't understand how a vagina works then they shouldn't be arguing.

[@TrejoDuneSea]

Holy cow, the first 5 minutes came across as "don't bother me with the facts, I'll just go on with what I have to say." It's hard to take the caller seriously sometimes.

[@Rage867]

Dude wants to blame all pregnancy and abortion on women meanwhile who is the one that pays for majority of the abortions, the men.

[@beverly719]

This was excellent 👍👏👏

[@tedmoy]

I really like Ben's background. I want it for my video conferencing

[@izodfan]

Moral or immoral, it's still a choice. No one has the right to step in and tell anyone whether they can or cannot have an abortion.

[@artistryartistry7239]

By your logic, why does the gov't have the right to tell us to do anything?

[@izodfan]

Explain how that's relevant to this argumen.

[@artistryartistry7239]

@@izodfan Because you said "no one has the right" to tell another person such and such. The gov't tells us what we can and cannot do all the time. Do you believe they have "the right" to legislate what we can and cannot do?

[@izodfan]

@@artistryartistry7239 irrelevant to this topic as I specifically mention abortion.

[@skagenpige88]

@@artistryartistry7239 There is an exception, when the community agree on a goverment being able to legistlate.

[@AJ-vm8ft]

I bet this guy would get really really angry. Like mass pew pew angry, if all women abstained from him.

[@skullduggerysmiles8393]

A comprehensive explanation given to yet another man who thinks he has the right to tell women what they should do with their bodies, but that's not relevant because it doesn't fit his personal narrative.

[@alexmarkadonis7179]

You are justified to kill a grown person who invades your home or refuses to vacate once all other polite means to oust them are exhausted. Your body is more yours than your home.

[@jamielynnturner5201]

You should have brought up that if it's just his will and his want then other people can say the same thing. I'm a woman, I say all man should have vasectomies, they are reversible and you don't get a choice.

[@ethantownsend458]

The caller was ignorant and didn’t listen to the student doctor. And I like when Mike forced the caller to answer the doctor well done

[@gspendlove]

If the overturning of Roe v. Wade has had any good outcome, it's the simple fact that these conversations are taking place and our conservative opponents are slowly understanding how flawed their "pro-life" arguments are as they fall apart in debates. They argue from emotion, not logic or the standpoint of basic human rights. Their position will always be defeated and that's why I believe that, eventually, laws will be created to protect a person's right to privacy in medical decisions like this one. Conservatives talk about how horrible it would be to have big government butting into citizens' rights to make their own decisions regarding health care. Then they turn around and say, "Except this one. The government should make this decision for you." And they shamelessly hide behind "children," like they always have, to deny adults their fundamental rights.

[@grukker]

As a pro-lifer it's so frustrating to hear awful arguments like the caller attempted.

[@countroshculla]

Abstinence is! That is so low, bro.

[@Sological]

This caller NEEDS access to academic research on reasons for abortion. I wonder if the general population even knows research exists.

[@nicciswainhi]

CONSENT TO HAVE SEX IS NOT CONSENT TO PREGNANCY. CONSENT TO GET PREGNANT NOT CONSENT TO STAY PREGNANT. PERIOD

[@lancehill9971]

This is ignorant! Calling women lazy because they choose to get an abortion is so dishonest!

[@CeezGeez]

“but when gawd kills babies it’s ok cause gawd dun it”

[@chillinsquirtle]

I kinda like this student doctor ben

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

Zygote: "The cell formed by the union of two gametes, especially a fertilized ovum before cleavage."

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

The caller has a steady diet of Fox "News"

[@patriceriksson7924]

It’s easy to say things without thinking them through. Then just add some loaded language and you are good to go!

[@cctomcat321]

It's even easier to watch some conservative KZbin clips and do a poor job at parroting those talking points. Idk when the last time this dude has had a thought.

[@rickyhits6547]

He said abstinence

[@dapablo2]

Yet another tired tedious male opining on stuff that's sod all to do with them.

[@starlaminde8436]

Dr Ben I do like you t you sucker at this conversation about abortion.

[@AJ-vm8ft]

This guy is not understanding how his own morale trap he’s trying to put forth is just him walking into a bigger trap 6:08

[@Void7.4.14]

I don't normally go there, but dude is past clueless. I think he was saying he's an atheist too so further proof that being an atheist has little to do with anything else 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@josephoswald2292]

I thought Jmike was Aron Ra? Oops 😬

[@aprilk141]

Look here, we are well past talking about abortions at this point, we need to start having abortions. I'm talking neck deep as far as the eye can see.

[@aprilk141]

Sorry. I was just thinking about the polar opposite of anti abortion position.

[@josephcampisi5401]

Nekoda obviously has a sub 100 IQ, lol.

[@ST-xw3cv]

"ME riGhT. I dOn'T kNow wHy but ME RIGHT!" -Nekoda

[@rammsteinrulz16]

Nah he was just never raised qith respect for women and humanity

[@josephcampisi5401]

@@rammsteinrulz16 that as well.

[@iiddrrii6051]

These people vote 😢

[@TheSnoeedog]

7:53 ...ah I should have guessed this bonehead was an MRA

[@stevesand8845]

I think that was an awful take by Ben…… is it immortal if the baby survives?? Obviously no one who is against abortion is against the scientific definitiOn case in which it’s an endured birth

[@gloriaf6971]

A miscarriage is also an abortion. The results are the same.

[@blarglemantheskeptic]

So a car accident is a murder? A lottery win is a bank robbery?

[@skagenpige88]

A miscarriage is not by choice.

[@gloriaf6971]

@@skagenpige88 It doesn't matter. If every pregnancy was supposed to end in a live birth then miscarriages and still births would never happen.

[@skagenpige88]

@@gloriaf6971 If you were making the rules for a game you might be correct.....there are both choices and non choices involved here....Unntil we are able to see every problem and solve it....id even say miscarriages and still births are supposed to happen due to the way it works as we speak.

[@gloriaf6971]

@@skagenpige88 So then what is the problem if a woman chooses to have an abortion?

[@brucehoward9801]

Why did you play this definition game? What are you trying to say? Are you just afraid to respond to the most material part of the claim?

[@2beers007]

abortion is choice lol😂

[@robertvirnig638]

I think it is wrong to claim that abortion is not immoral. I think most people would agree that it is, or people who decide to have one wouldn't agonize over it so much. And when a fetus is lost accidentally most would be parents are devastated. So that fetus has clear value and destroying it is immoral. But lying is also immoral and we don't have laws against that, that would be insane. And forcing someone to carry a baby to term and give birth is also immoral, a much greater immoral act than the abortion.

[@wunnell]

*"I think most people would agree that it is, or people who decide to have one wouldn't agonize over it so much."* That's utter tripe. People imagine the person a baby will one day become, not what it is at the time. That is even more the case for pregnant women because their body produces hormones that make them want to protect their baby. Anti-abortionists encourage this emotional response and ignore the actual logic of the situation. Some women miscarry very early on in a pregnancy and are devastated because they've already imagined the child they would have had and they feel like that child has died, but that's simply not the case. People agonise of many things that aren't moral questions.

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

@@wunnell *_I think it is wrong to claim that abortion is not immoral._* Depends on your definition of abortion, doesn't it, and abortion covers a range of conditions from the spontaneous termination of a pregnancy to its deliberate termination before foetal viability. Surely they can't possibly ALL be immoral! And then comes the issue of who makes the decision in the case of deliberate terminations? Father? Mother? Grandparents? Priests or lawyers? Random strangers prattling on a messageboard? The only person directly affected is the mother, and she may or may not want an abortion, might not even have a choice in it. Finally, those wanting to stop an abortion against the wishes of an unwilling mother should be forced to accept all costs of the pregnancy and raising the resulting child. That should shut the idiots up.

[@robertvirnig638]

@@Leszek.Rzepecki No, you cannot make a blanket statement statement about all possible situations, but let's just say I'm making my statement about morality in the most typical situation where someone decides to voluntarily terminate at the point when most women become aware they are pregnant without any unusual circumstances. And I'm not even saying that after weighing the net effect of the entire situation including hardship and risk on the mother it might not make the abortion morally justified. Even the other commenter couldn't make his objection without admitting that the fetus has value. And most would consider that it is altruistic for someone to not have an abortion and either raise the child or go to the effort to find quality adoptive parents. But the law shouldn't require someone to be altruistic, that is place a great burden on themselves for what is in this situation a potential life. That would be like requiring someone to risk their life to try to put out a fire just to save someone else's property. Such an act might be considered commendable or reckless and stupid depending on your viewpoint and can't be required by law. But I think it is disingenuous to claim that there isn't a moral component in the decision to have an abortion.

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

@@robertvirnig638 Ethical decisions are usually exercises in drawing lines across continuous philosophical planes, then attempting to justify this position as opposed to that one. That's why people don't always agree on ethics, because there are so many different perspectives. For example, some people are carnivorous, others vegetarian, and a few go so far as being vegan, because of considerations that cruelty to animals is unethical. But what about the poor vegetables? Don't they have a right to live? Well, we have to eat something and at least so far as we are aware, veggies don't feel pain when we shred and cook them. So far as a foetus is concerned, only the ultra-religious say they have moral concerns about it from the moment of conception - indeed some Catholics respect sperm and eggs even more than they respect adult people. 🎼 _"Every sperm is sacred..."_ 🎹 Then they lose interest at birth, and mummy can fend for herself and child afterwards. Most scientifically literate people aren't going to be morally concerned about the foetus till it's on the point of viability. We don't really know when sentience and self-awareness begins. So while I think it's perfectly ok to say that abortion has a moral or ethical dimension, in that it is the removal of a living entity, and of a potential Mozart (or Hitler), none of us are so well placed to make the ethical decision other than the mother herself, and we owe it not only to ourselves but to her, to respect her decision where her pregnancy is concerned. The moral dimension isn't the only important consideration.

[@robertvirnig638]

@@Leszek.Rzepecki I don't take issue with anything in your last comment. I agree that whenever people bring religion into such decisions people come up with really odd notions even though as far as I remember the Bible doesn't address abortion or contraception. Also, if all the pro-life people put the same effort into promoting programs for assisting struggling young mothers and their children they would prevent more abortions and do more good for the world. But instead we have the concentration on this political issue of abortion and an incongruous callousness when it comes to such issues as homeless and starving children.

[@OGunsalus]

Im generally with u guys on such topics: but pretending abortion means something else other than what EVERYONE means when they say it is dishonest. We all know what people mean when speaking about this is termination of pregnancy that ends the life of the fetus. Deal with that issue stop the bs definitions its just ignoring the main point of contention

[@OGunsalus]

This is annoying. Ur ignoring the point of contention and playing definition games and shit. Its obvious hes saying it should not be allowed to end pregnancy and kill the fetus if its not medically necessary. Talk about that stop pushing the convo into non sense like terminations that dont kill the fetus. Smh