NEOLITHIC OBSIDIAN: Did it fuel the expansion of farming 7,000 B.C.?

[@roxiepoe9586]

While doing a workshop in an orphanage/school in Ecuador, I noticed the millions of flakes of obsidian among the gravel on the facility roads/paths. Later, in conversation with pupils, it came up that USA students couldn't possess knives on campus. They found this hilarious. When I visited the class room, they showed me their 'cutting leafs' of obsidian stored in their desks. Tiny leaves, 2 inch leaves, even 4 inch blades! They also casually re-knapped edges which had been damaged in use. They used them responsibly, and if one of them didn't, they faced discipline that did not include denying them use of the resource. Travel and learn.

[@charleskyler1928]

While hunting in Northern Arizona as a teenager, i came across a natural depression in the terrain that captured water. I revisited the location as the game I was hunting used it as a watering hole. I was clearly not the first to exploit this knowledge as I found an obsidian arrow head at the edge of the depression. One of my treasured finds.

[@elizabethmcglothlin5406]

What a lovely thing, and what a connection.

[@robetprice4759]

I really appreciate you guys making the point ..its the oldest we have found yet.."things just keep getting older"

[@voodoojedizin4353]

Here in North America we have huge deposits of obsidians that can be found in Oregon, California and in the area surrounding Yellowstone, And where I live in the Rocky Mountains I have stood next to Boulder's the size of a house made out of obsidian that came from a super volcano. Although not all of the Indians in North America had access to obsidian back east they used stone, bone, and antler. Chert, and flint. And you're correct about it being sharp I picked up a piece of obsidian and instantly got a painful cut across two of my fingers unbelievably sharp material.

[@voodoojedizin4353]

I forgot to add when I was in Oregon I talked to some Indians that worked with obsidian to make tourist trinkets, and they used a piece of leather to hold the obsidian so they could shape it without getting cut to pieces. Of course they claim this is the way their forefathers did it.

[@kariannecrysler640]

@@voodoojedizin4353Most knapping techniques have some kind of horn/antler hammer for detailing so the leather use seems reasonable to assume.

[@denisecatlett7203]

I’m from an area in Northern California that has a mountain that the locals call glass mountain. Also, up at Lave Bed National monument there are huge boulders made out of obsidian. Lava Bed is my all time favorite place to go in California. It’s an adventurers play ground.

[@MrJavanaut]

Yellowstone obsidian has been found in a Hopewell mound in Ohio.

[@Ari-jj9op]

It's fascinating to hear your perspective on distances. It makes it obvious you're from Britain. 500 miles to those of us who live in rural America isn't all that far. Just a perspective comment. Not a comment on ancient transportation methods, lol.

[@Byronic19134]

Yeah being from Philly I wonder if like the Northeast Corridor was separate island or just even PA and NY how different it would have been settled. And what’s crazy is I still came to conclusion most of central PA would have just a ton or uncivilized farm land that feels like it goes on forever.

[@bigbadthesailor5173]

Come and try travelling around Britain - particularly the southern half of the island, and you'll see why: firstly roads are crowded and slow, second the geography and geology changes dramatically every few miles. The landscape is just more 'eventful'. In Scotland the sense of distances, away from the central belt towns and cities, is a little more like the American, though we stil have a wonderfully detailed geography here too.

[@Ari-jj9op]

@@bigbadthesailor5173 That makes perfect sense. I'd love to wander Britain.

[@danscalone8110]

Thank you. Always enjoy watching learning. I'm fascinated how far back discoveries can be made. I'm sure there's More to be Discovered.

[@HypaBumfuzzle]

❤❤ what a nice addition to my morning. My favorite prehistory guys!

[@AmyBee4]

Woohoo! So happy to see a new upload! Psyched to dive into this.

[@anastasiachristakos2480]

@ThePrehistoryGuys Good point. You should look into whether Sesklo & Dimini (Greek neolithic sites- some catagorize them as the Vinca Culture, dating back to 9000bc and some hypothisize that the origins of the domestication of cattle ) had obsidian from Milos. Then there is Dispilo (7000 bc and Dispilo written tablet- undeciphered alphabet. I recall reading on neolithic Egypt site discovered obsidian from Milos- (5000bc).

[@ronaldshimekph.d.6812]

Obsidian makes knives that are quite sharp indeed, but plate glass can be fractured to make knives that are just as sharp. All silicate glasses, be they volcanic or human in origin, fracture in much the same way. Decades ago when I learned to cut sections for a class in Transmission Electron Microscopy we had to practice making glass knives to use in microtomes to cut sections for observation (the specimens we had to cut were embedded in epoxy resin, and were quite hard) and glass knives or knives made of polished diamond were used to make the sections we used in our research. Diamond knives are quite expensive (in other words, beginning grad students generally could not afford the diamond knves), but are much harder than glass - however, they were not really quite as sharp. Glass knives are cheap, we'd get waste plate glass from window makers for free - we just had to take it away. Flint, BTW, is amorphous, acrystalline silica, and makes edges just as sharp, but generally the sharp flint edges are curved, not straight, and often short. They work well as microblades, I suppose, but I think straight obsidian edges may ge quite a bit longer, and probably are quite a bit more easily made.

[@SmallWonda]

Really interesting - thank you - and maybe their bank of obsidian was a form of currency. Looking forward to the movie...

[@pamelagamblin981]

Darn missed your live again😢

[@TheSweeeeeetz]

Great topic! Would they have flocked to an eruption to gather it ? If so clever to connect the dots as to why there’s smoke etc . What a time to be alive.

[@Pablo9svn8]

Havent started it yet but im so glad i was able to find something on this subject. I didnt think youtube would have anything on this but i do a lot of research on cultural diffusion/evolution and the second i heard there was all this evidence of a neolithic obsidian trade and saw a map of the suspected routes the first thing i thought about was how this was the same place and time period where several cultures had first begun to independently developed sedentary agricultural societies. Anatolia the levant and egypt all were suspected to have early forms of agricultural societies at this time period and even the balkans had developed agriculture around this same time and a trading party could have plausibly reached the western ends of this route from their location. Not saying it happened but its within the realm of possibility. The mapping of the obsidian trade also matches well with the tracing of haplogroups at this time in this region. I havent been this excited for a video in a long time cuz i really dont know much about this obsidian trade yet but i do know if the maps i saw were even close to accurate that this would act as an incredible catalyst for cultural diffusion/evolution at the time. It may not sound exciting to most people but the implications of it absolutely are. I cant wait to find out more

[@thomasmills3934]

Why doesn't this show up on my feed anymore!? I used to enjoy this show so much. Been a year or two since it ive remembered to watch... pity.

[@jonkayl9416]

Love your video casts. More Please! Thank you both for making tese Videos. First found your by finding - Standing With Stones. :)

[@loulagregg8468]

That's where I first saw and heard them, too. "Standing with stones" strikes me still as brilliant! That and their ongoing videos on prehistory guys are why I contribute to their Patreon account.

[@LynneSheridan-ve2cm]

Obsidian- Having just been reading a book about the arrival of the people to the Chatham Is. It seems that Obsidian and Argilite were taken from NZ between 12th and 16th centuries, artifacts were found on both Pitt Is and Chatham Is. I haven't come across the use of flint yet.

[@napalmholocaust9093]

If obsidian does not show up in an xray it will not be used in surgery. Even some gauze for stuffing deep wounds has a metallic "X" so it isn't left behind. Glass is banned as a projectile along with plastic partially due to xray transparency, so I imagine the same with obsidian, the transparency. You can get a monolithic ruby blade but I think they are only for ultrasonic, not sure how sharp it is. A good example demonstrating the greater cooling required for obsidian is that flint mountain in Washington state (it is volcanic in nature and is obsidian, I think the name was just early before people cared about the distinction, or I'm wrong and it is obsidian mountain but i dont think so). Only the top cooled fast enough to form glass and you can see it changing very slowly down the side for a few thousand feet.

[@tinahenry3814]

I love it, lifting the corner of the carpet...

[@user-wk1mw9nj3i76]

A favorite place of mine is the Obsidian Cliff in Yellowstone Ntl. Park. Indigenous people did visit the area for the resource.

[@seanwelch71]

How did people experience first contact with new materials in trade? My hypothesis is that women wanted obsidian for their work in fields and looms. Men wanted it for working hides and butchering meat. Were obsidian tools made to resemble traditional flint shaped tools?

[@bonitareardon5987]

It makes sense that farmers who are generally stuck in one place would trade with hunter gatherers who traveled around and maybe were the first door to door salesmen. Can I interest you in an obsidian knife and a deer carcass?

[@jenniferharrison4319]

🤣

[@jasper-xe3ow]

Wrong. Genetics show without dobt a demic expansion of farming from the Aegean in the Neolithic, with people with 80-90% Aegean DNA moving to islands like Malta, Sardinia, Sicily or the British islands.

[@george1la]

Great show I learned a lot.

[@raginald7mars408]

sharp tools and sharp minds Warriors

[@OwlTiny]

Michael refers to the Adriatic (that is off Italy) in a context of the Aegean. The Adriatic is part of the Malta network. The Aegean Milos, which connect.

[@michaelterrien1649]

Obsidian was purportedly the source of wealth at Teotihuacan. The city controlled a large supply and was the center of a large trading network in first millenium CE Mexico.

[@janetmackinnon3411]

I understand that one can help by watching the adverts?

[@loulagregg8468]

Just on Patreon and through their online requests for funding with a podcast.

[@Pablo9svn8]

Unrelated thought btw but im curious what is your guys thoughts on the vinca symbols? When i first heard of them i only saw the pendant and a few others and i thought it more closely resembled decorations but the more i see different artifacts with the symbols the more like a proto language it appears to me. Do you think its just confirmation bias from comparing it to similar looking early languages like linear a?

[@nukhetyavuz]

maybe in the mezolithic seas were frozen,i cant imagine they traveled by sea...they must have used a schlitten😂btw,göbeklitepe is not two words,u write it together...greetings from turkey🇹🇷🌎

[@jasper-xe3ow]

Most of the trading occurred in the Neolithic when the seas were NOT frozen at all. And even during the Mesolithic Cyprus was reached by boat, since it was not connected to Anatolia, not even during the glacial maximum. The same goes for many islands in the Aegean, only a few were connected to other islands, many others were already islands.

[@jasper-xe3ow]

No. There are dozens of studies on the rising of sea levels and most of these places were still islands. When Neolithic trading cocurred in the Thyrrenian for example (Neolithic), the four soruces of obsidian were on islands. Sardinia for example was never collected to Italy, only to Corsica, and even the connection to Corsica ceased around 8000 BC, while most of the obsidian trading occurred between 5800 and 3000 BC, when even that connection was long gone. The same is true for the Aegean, most of the trading occurred in the Neolithic when the islands were not much different that today, (and even in the Mesolithic most Aegean islands were not connetected), the same is true for Anatolia and Cyprus, never connected to each other, the same is true for Pantelleria, where obsidian was extracted ONLY from the Neolithic onwards, and by that time it was dozens of km from the coast of Sicily, the same is true for Lipari and Palmarola. The same is true for Ustica, Malta and Lampedusa, settled in the Neolithic when they were dozens of miles from the coasts or over a hundred miles for the case of Lampedusa.

[@ianbruce6515]

Another great discussion! Could the large stashes of obsidian be 'Strategic Reserves'? One can imagine the price of traded obsidian going up and down considerably, depending on supply--and that periodic warfare along the trading routes could hugely effect supply episodically. I can imagine that a small fast canoe with a cargo of obsidian sneaking in at night after a long dangerous voyage avoiding wartorn territory--could command a lot of valuable trade goods in return for a relatively small amount of obsidian.

[@DJWESG1]

Or obsidian as capital.

[@elizabethmcglothlin5406]

Flint: pretty sturdy and can be made sharp, even reshapened. Obsidian: Crazy sharp, but fragile and rare. Jade and Jadite: Crazy hard but difficult to sharpen. Bronze, iron, and later steel: Hard to make, got easier, and can be resharpened, but... Obsidian was remarkable! A friend who was a knapper made me a blade many years ago which I still have. Handle with care! There are also unbelievably gruesome weapons made with obsidian bladelets set in wood. Brrr.

[@Jane-nc2fr]

Michael, beard looks great -very distinguishing.

[@andrewwright2008]

Thanks!

[@ThePrehistoryGuys]

Woah! Thanks so much Andrew!!

[@dimitriradoux]

What drove the development of early grain agriculture 🤔 In 1953 Braidwood and Sauer started the debate if it was 🍞Bread or 🍺Beer that drove early grain cultivation. But it's time to consider that it might have been 🥩Beef! This at least is what the evidence in Neolithic Europe seems to show according to stable isotope evidence from turkey to Britain from my review of that literature. If you would like to have a discussion about this topic don’t hesitate to contact me as I have been working on this hypothesis for a couple of years now 😉

[@DJWESG1]

Maybe studies can show some link to stone working (tools and jems) with the development of making better breads, growing and grinding finer flours.

[@dimitriradoux]

@@DJWESG1 that evidence exists and there are many papers looking at this, but it still does not support bread and/or beer being significant drivers for the development of agriculture.

[@nigelrogers9519]

Thanks

[@ThePrehistoryGuys]

Thank you very much Nigel!!

[@arnman2093]

Copper sources are traceable. Not sure the limitations but they know where copper in Rome came from for certain coins and in USA, natives along the East Coast got copper from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

[@kariannecrysler640]

I believe they found superior copper at Poverty point too! I know there are owls carved from red jasper there too & early stage’s of the site had a post circle. They have proven the copper in the Mediterranean region did not come from Michigan though.

[@arnman2093]

@@kariannecrysler640 I wouldn't think copper from Michigan made it to the Med. That would be quite spectacular!

[@kariannecrysler640]

How much work has been done to find ancient trackways in the greater Mediterranean region? We know Britains Neolithic population was large enough to establish trackways with long usage, curious if there’s any way to identify them in these other regions.

[@DJWESG1]

There's a artist called Richard something or other who focuses specifically on the lines and paths human beings make and have made across the world over history. Worth a Google probably

[@kariannecrysler640]

@@DJWESG1 thanks!

[@Clyne-sv4hd]

I have a glorious piece of snowflake obsidian, one of my prized possessions

[@janetmackinnon3411]

So if obsidian was sourced in Milos and other islands, where was the volcano that spewed it forth?

[@abisu5273]

Thanks for the reminder.

[@jasper-xe3ow]

An extinct one.

[@aidanmacdougall9250]

Primitive hunter gatherers with sophisticated boats and navigation! Something so many historians tend to gloss over 🤔

[@Oddball5.0]

It’s literally been known and published in archaeology for more than half a century. No one is glossing over it

[@aidanmacdougall9250]

@@Oddball5.0 no one ever talks about the boats of anyone pre Egyptian what did they look like, did they sail, how did they navigate? But they did make it to Australia 40,000 years ago. Yet I can find nothing about boats older than 3200bc anywhere on the internet, except dugout log boats, not very sea worthy I suspect

[@Oddball5.0]

@@aidanmacdougall9250 Check out the work of Sean McGrail. He has a book called Boats of the World that covers early watercraft.

[@aidanmacdougall9250]

@@Oddball5.0 great thank you, will do

[@jasper-xe3ow]

Most of the obsidian trading was done in the Neolithic by farmers, not hunters. Even if it started in the Mesolithic in the Aegean and mesolithic hunters crossed from Anatolia to Cyprus in some sort of boats. but in Cyprs farming arrived even earlier so there too most of the trading occurred in the Neolithic

[@frank-y8n]

I read in the 'fifties that obsidian was then used in eye surgery. It has now been replaced by lasers?

[@missdemeanor3524]

Anyone have ideas on the function of this obsidian artifact I found: A ground & polished blackish green translucent rectangular slab 8" x 5" x 3" (20.32 cm x 12.7 cm x 7.62.) One corner of the rectangle is rounded off. It might be jade, idk. I'm in the state of Minnesota (northern United States) Thanks for any info.

[@kariannecrysler640]

Is there jade in Minnesota? I know there’s jade on the Southern California coast, but haven’t any clue about the rest of the nation lol

[@Hakor0]

Sounds like slag from an aluminium refining station butvyeh it could be gemstone

[@missdemeanor3524]

​@@Hakor0Would slag be formed into a rectangle?

[@missdemeanor3524]

​@@kariannecrysler640I've never heard of jade here in MN. What interests me more than the material is why it would have been shaped and polished into a rectangle. No ornamentation or writing is visible so I'm guessing it was a tool of some kind

[@kariannecrysler640]

@@missdemeanor3524 maybe a tray/alter type thing. It’s not a great material for food type uses (grits too easily). Too thick for ornamentation. To delicate for heavy usage. I could see it being used in medicine potentially or perhaps for tanning, but again it’s not an ideal shape for that type of application. Fun puzzle you have to solve here💯

[@blissfulearth334]

Wow obsidian. I have a large obsidian crystal stone in my ceremonial circle. 16 in x4" wide and 5 sided. And I had a Bigfoot come into the Stargate portal and heal a woman of cancer instantaneously. 😔🙏😔.

[@dannygarton]

I’d really like to know what evidence exists about the early trade in salt.

[@carly4610]

Re trading obsidian and island-hopping in the Aegean, wouldn't sea levels have been lower then, so not islands in sea, but hills on dry land?

[@jonathancardy9941]

Yes the sea levels were lower then and the Aegean islands larger. But some of those seas are deep, and the sea levels were only tens of metres shallower. But either way it was nowhere near a 75 mile sea journey, or only as a shortcut. The first visitors would have island hopped and never had to go to an island that they couldn't see from the previous island, even with today's sea levels you wouldn'tt have to do anywhere near a 75 mile sea journey unless you wanted to.

[@jasper-xe3ow]

No. There are dozens of studies on the rising of sea levels and most of these places were still islands. When Neolithic trading cocurred in the Thyrrenian for example (Neolithic), the four soruces of obsidian were on islands. Sardinia for example was never collected to Italy, only to Corsica, and even the connection to Corsica ceased around 8000 BC, while most of the obsidian trading occurred between 5800 and 3000 BC, when even that connection was long gone. The same is true for the Aegean, most of the trading occurred in the Neolithic when the islands were not much different that today, (and even in the Mesolithic most Aegean islands were not connetected), the same is true for Anatolia and Cyprus, never connected to each other, the same is true for Pantelleria, where obsidian was extracted ONLY from the Neolithic onwards, and by that time it was dozens of km from the coast of Sicily, the same is true for Lipari and Palmarola. The same is true for Ustica, Malta and Lampedusa, settled in the Neolithic when they were dozens of miles from the coasts or over a hundred miles for the case of Lampedusa.

[@jasper-xe3ow]

It was over 100 miles of sea between Sicily and Lampedsa in the Neolithic when Lampedusa was colonized by the Stentinello culture. It was at least 75 miles between Sicily and Malta when Malta was colonized in the Neolithic (and in this case we have evidence of the colonization occurring in the Neolithic thanks not just to pottery, remains of domesticated animals, and lithic material but also of DNA studies on human bones, you can find the study easily online)

[@qwertyuiopgarth]

No matter how successful we got as stone-age people...eventually all the deposits of good stone will be mined out.... (Probably very very far in the future of a fictional 'we're still stone-age' timeline...but eventually....)

[@gwcstudio]

Tungsten carbide'll take a hell of an edge. Diamond, too. It's just expen$$ive.

[@jasper-xe3ow]

Wrong, obsidian trading from Sardinia and other Thyrrenian islands started in the Neolithic, NOT in the Mesolithic. It started when farmers from the Aegean colonized/settled those places, hunter gatherers never or almost never used obsidian in the Thyrrenian and they didn't trade it. In the case of Sardinia the hunters were probably already gone by the time the Aegean farmers colonized it, since there's a 500 years gap between the last hunter remains and the first farmer ones. In Sicily there might've been a cohexistence between the two but genetic studies show they were quickly replaced there too.

[@randycompton5230]

I believe man has an instinct to travel and trade. I believe obsidian was used by the earliest human beings.

[@cosmicerror1335]

One thing you have missed so far: Shamanism especially with the uprise of farming...

[@ellispellisroxyfoxy]

Yes, true that, interesting!! Looking forward to that conversation. 🙌

[@nigelrogers9519]

Can you mine, trade, and have a nomadic lifestyle?

[@Lora-G]

I'd like to know why OCHRE is found to be used sacredly throughout prehistoric cultures ?????

[@paulinemegson8519]

It’s common and it’s strongly coloured and it’s red like blood. Simple really.

[@lorilea3188]

Canoe camping way to go.

[@SteveWray]

Obsidian can't even split a hair. The edge is so fragile that it crumbles very easily. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6LOq4ScpdNmY6c

[@ianbruce6515]

I'm glad to see that the ancient inhabitants of the Agean and Mediterranean and Agean are getting recognised for having some seamanship abilities. It has always annoyed me as an experienced seafarer under sail--that the inhabitants of that part of the world were regarded as uniquely retarded and incompetent seamen, while elsewhere in the world Neolithic peoples were plainly capable of offshore voyaging. The islands of the Pacific were peopled by log canoes sailing out of land for multiple days and weeks. The myth that the inhabitants of the Mediterranean were incapable of sailing out of sight of land for thousands of years--needs to be knocked on the head, once and for all! Supposedly they couldn't even stay out overnight--and had to pull their boats ashore every night! I can see where the idea came from--classical texts, perhaps. War galleys and war canoes are fast, narrow and overcrowded--much less seaworthy than a fishing or trading craft--and might need to be pulled ashore, just so that the warriors could spread out to sleep. Also, in Meltemi season in the Cyclades, the wind gets quite savage in the Afternoon and it makes sense to travel after the gale drops off, (perhaps at night), and find safe harbour before the next afternoon blow. But those conditions are not year round and don't hold true for the entire Mediterranean.

[@DJWESG1]

Isn't that where the famous 'sea people' came from??

[@terrabytesarcheology]

If obsidian is sharper than surgical steel, why are all depictions of neolithic men shown with bushy beards? can you shave with obsidian?

[@loulagregg8468]

A great many people LIKE facial hair.

[@paulinemegson8519]

Why on earth would a sharp cutting blade necessarily result in shaving? That’s a hell of a leap in (il)logic!!

[@terrabytesarcheology]

@@paulinemegson8519 there's no evidence the neolithic men didnt shave, the bronze age folk had razors made of bronze. absence of evidence isnt evidence of absence, a logical conclusion since they had obsidian with which you can shave. kzbin.info/www/bejne/emXaf4Oteayjq7s

[@terrabytesarcheology]

@@loulagregg8468 A great many people DONT LIKE facial hair. why do you think the neolithic people were any different from us?

[@DJWESG1]

Good call. Grooming is one thing we kept from our more animalistic past. Combs and other items found for a long time too.

[@billmiller4972]

... waiting to cough for ages ... 🙂

[@alexisdespland4939]

ae you saying black knives matter. lol

[@Bb5y]

Ok I let you off

[@executivesteps]

Painfully slow paced.

[@veritas41photo]

Could these guys make an otherwise interesting subject so dry, so inaccessible, so boring? Using terms not readily understood by the layperson who'd like to learn, but now cannot? Can you imagine a junior high school person wanting to learn about this topinc spending the time to listen to this material? Rhetorical questions. Thumbz Down. All the Way.

[@olivemd]

What terms??

[@kariannecrysler640]

I was reading National Geographic and understanding it in fourth grade & personally do not have the same problem as you describe. There are many common words that are used in archaeology that are unfamiliar at first & I’m sure anyone here who has correct information would be willing to help define them to anyone else who wanted to learn them. Best part of archaeology is that being wrong is not a bad thing, it’s evidence of what the answer is not.✌️😉 Feel free to ask anything at this channel & you should get genuine answers. Live streams are another way to ask questions & get answers here for myself, so you may consider joining in on the next one. I look forward to seeing you there soon!

[@mkd4076]

Obviously not your cup of tea.

[@jenniferharrison4319]

They are just passing on their thoughts and ideas. It is not meant to be an in-depth study of obsidian and what terms do you not understand.

[@jasper-xe3ow]

The problem isn't that it's "inacessible", it's that it is very superficial. For instance they said that obsidian trading started in the Mesolithic in the Thyrrenian islands, wrong! it started in the Neolithic.