Never Trim Again: The RCBS X-Die

[@fordvg]

Bought one back in the 1990’s when it first came out for my Colt National Match AR-15 in .223 and it worked great. Used military and commercial brass with no issues. Was using Accurate 2200 powder and 62 grain bullets.

[@Glockman-ps3fo]

I use the x-die for 223 for high power rifle match loads. It works as advertised and has eliminated the need for repeated trimming. I trim to 1.740 and set the die to limit to 1.750. I get consistent accuracy for match loads. I found out about it from Konrad who has a KZbin channel here. I learned from him not to waste time doing reloading things that don’t improve target scores.

[@onebadjack1313]

@@Glockman-ps3fo then what would I use my henderson trimmer for? Lol

[@1jordanledwards1]

Thanks Gavin for another video. Definitely my favorite channel. Love that you are driven by data and engineering. I’m and engineer as well so it’s nice to see another data driven gun nerd and it’s nice to see you using every man’s reloading equipment even though you’ve got area 419 gear everywhere! Can’t lie, a favorite on mine too but some of it’s just more than I’d care to spend. Keep it up!!

[@magic4221]

@@1jordanledwards1 obviously you haven't seen too many of his videos. Majority of which use nothing but Ulta high dollar equipment that only the very wealthy can afford. And normally he has three or more of everything. Am I jealous? Bet your ass I am. The reason I am bitchiñg is he's turned into a shill! And that's just sad.

[@clinkerclint]

Nice to see some innovation. Well done RCBS and UR!

[@greybone777]

I only use small base dies for semi autos. I only trim and neck size for bolt guns. Im slightly skeptical. I clean military brass, ream the primer pockets, prime, dump in Blc2 or varget and get 10 shot dime sized groups with that Hornaday 75 grainer in my CZ . I do the same with 308. I used to watch old timers scoop a case full of IMR4831 in the 06 and cram a 180 gr bullet in. I've done very well not overcomplicting things. Everyone enjoy your hobby the way you like. Just be safe.

[@kramr7012]

Great product. I use these for 308 and 224 Valk. Works as described by manufacturer. Recommend. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@magic4221]

Brass has to move somewhere, i think that shoulder stop is gonna make dounuts around the neck on properly annealed brass

[@randomidiot8142]

Wonder what the loaded neck diameter was before and after.

[@ironDsteele]

100%. I'm also not a fan of these pilots, I like sinclair expander mandrels. There are no free lunches.

[@magic4221]

@@ironDsteele absolutely correct.

[@maurygold74]

This. The brass is either going to donut at the neck, shoulder or .2 - none of which is better than trimming.

[@ironDsteele]

@@maurygold74 I would also like to see measurements of neck runout and thickness after the sizing. That brass WILL flow forward throughout the press stroke to the end and then get crushed backwards. You are trading a normal step in the process (trimming) for at least one or more problems.

[@bobbydavis3246]

Very interesting concept. I have to believe brass continues to flow upward but the pilot stops it from lengthening. Did the neck thickness increase after each shot?

[@Shadytreemechanic77]

We need more data , accuracy, neck tension, velocity changes , overall case life extended or not ??? Sounds like another U.R. video to me 😂

[@seanf818]

It's not the ultimate reloader, it's the ultimate joker

[@jorgenjorgensen656]

That single case went through hell this episode

[@spraynpray]

A product so easy to use the guy named Ultimate Reloader can't do it without the help of the manufacturer.

[@brucec2635]

Just starting to load. Thanks for the free master classes.

[@peterslaby9782]

Steep learning curve but worth the effort. I never run out of ammo these days.

[@foonus406]

Curious to see the results annealing the brass after every firing. Data points to the brass reaching maximum work hardness at about round 15 and after that springback becomes more noticeable. Wonder how much of this has to do with not annealing between firings, and how much of it is a result of the product. Thanks for the video!

[@arturojessop6835]

This was a question I was thinking throughout the video. I've waited till the end to see if he would address that, but to no avail.

[@greasydot]

Also does the neck get thicker by pushing the brass back. If so the neck tension will be messed up. I would rather trim than turn necks.

[@foonus406]

@@greasydot We know the brass has to go somewhere.. If it's prevented from growing the neck then where is it going? My guess is the shoulder/neck junction of the brass. Ever see what happens to brass when you expand or seat with excess resistance? The whole shoulder collapses or bells out in that exact area. Combined with not annealing I can see this creating an issue in this area leading to eventual separation. Also of interest would be a case capacity test with the virgin brass vs the 20x fired. Its very possible that a "Donut" is building in that junction area and affecting internal case capacity. Good luck trimming THAT one out. I think this type of a sizer would work great for straight wall brass like 45-70 or pistol cartridges but personally I will stick to my conventional Forster sizers for anything with a shoulder.

[@greasydot]

​@@foonus406 think I'll just stay with my bushing dies and case trimmer just because I don't need to spend any more money. 😂😂😂😂

[@ouruiz]

At 5:43 you can tell that there is deformation at the shoulder of the case between the 8th firing and the 20th firing, and that is coming from a bolt gun. I own this die as well. I would use .223 cases out of my Ar15s, and eventually that part of the case would crush. If you could be so kind, I would like you (Gavin) to give us data using the same process coming out of an AR15 and show us the results. I think a lot of us would use this die for our gas guns, and not our bolt guns.

[@jonathanschubert9052]

Hey man, for 8 firings, I'll take it!

[@ouruiz]

@@jonathanschubert9052 Lets not forget the rifle that Gavin is shooting it out of. It is a custom precision made rifle with a tight chamber that can shoot lights out with the correct load. I want to see how a case will hold up on a duty rifle like a Colt or BCM.

[@elchang1688]

Thanks for this topic! I use this die on 30.06 for my M1 Garand. I usually still have to check and trim the brass. My M1 beats up the brass quite a bit. To be safe, I usually replace the brass after 5 firings. I'll try Lapua brass and see.

[@MattFieldPhoto]

You can probably relax a bit. I use this die for M1 also (loading for 150gn, w/H4895) and i have several sets of brass that is approaching 20 reloads

[@Truckersreloadingbench]

Awesome vid. Like the fact you used basic tools that the average Joe reloader has on his bench

[@sig7798]

I requested you to do a video on the RCBS X-Base die back on 14 Jan. Glad you got around to it. Gavin, wondering if you could do a video on the RCBS X-Base sizing die. Set up and what the benefit is. Thank you.

[@Paladin1873]

Fish gotta swim, Birds gotta fly, Brass gotta flow, despite the X-dies, Can't help wantin' to know just why. (with apologies to Kern and Hammerstein)

[@chipsterb4946]

I would only use the small base die for the first re-sizing. Cases should be fire formed to your chamber after that. Effectively under-sizing every time is overworking your brass. I have done this with .308 - small base die for first sizing and then the regular X-Die for subsequent sizing. However, I wouldn’t be comfortable shooting the same case more than 5 or 6 times in any semiauto without annealing.

[@dfabove9108]

After watching the great video that was the first question that came to mind . How often do you anneal ? I anneal all bottle neck cases before trimming .If you were going to do controled batchs of brass do you not anneal after that first trimming ?

[@chipsterb4946]

@ I don’t anneal brass (yet). However, it makes complete sense to anneal after the sizing that stretches cases enough to require trimming. Your comment also makes me think that if the X-Die moves brass less, it might reduce the need to anneal going forward.

[@wvlongshooter3912]

I have this die for my 5.56’s and haven’t set it up. I think I’ll give it a try. Thanks!!

[@kramr7012]

If instructions are followed, you won't be disappointed.

[@gangplankoverboard7336]

Center mass at 300yds is good enough for me. Either way there are follow up shots. I just need a 10"window of effect/accuracy.

[@garyomalley4521]

Thank you. Great experiment.

[@Semper_3.14]

This seems cool! Has RCBS come out with something to handle the case swell around the belt on belted magnums? I feel like it’s something they could incorporate into a resizing die. There’s a company that created a collet to address it.

[@BcFuTw9jt]

Curious to see one on a progressive like a Dillon

[@erklaerbaer01]

Interesting that you didn't anneal after each firing. That could make a difference in spring back. Those dies are nothing for me. I trim after every firing and also anneal after every firing. I guess you could just use a mandrel die to push the neck back.

[@IWatchedWhat]

I have a set of these in 220 Swift, it mostly works alright, still have to trim about every 6 or 7 reloads. But swift brass only lasts about 8 or 9 reloads for me.

[@williamsweet7511]

I may have missed it, did you anneal?

[@DLN-ix6vf]

sounds good but do these short dies have an affect on shoulder bump for head space you did not measure shoulder bump before and after full sizing

[@davidunderwood3605]

Would have been interested in seeing multiple cases run through you test.

[@mikesauer7775]

I've had brass do some strange things. I trimmed some stretched 223 brass and loaded 40gr V max doing 3,600fps with Vita Vouri n130. The cases shrunk .010 and the shoulder .002. Why???

[@MrTacklebury]

Been looking at these lately.

[@coldfront7914]

Are these results for making rounds that are specifically for one rifle? Also what about semiautomatic rifles? Its my understanding the cases stretch even more in a semi auto.

[@oldschooljack3479]

When you size a case brass is displaced and flows up the case body towards the case mouth... So where does the brass go with this die? What's the tradeoff here?

[@rickschwertner282]

I can't help but think there is one heck of a donut forming

[@bsmith483]

Would annealing change these results any? Since we know that "brass flows", I'm wondering.

[@xaviergreyling6620]

Oh WOW! No schlep of trimming! AWESOME! Question/-s: That appears to be a FL die, thus no place for a bushing die to neck size? What is the consistency on the neck ID/neck tension: the x-die ball expander vs using (e.g.) APW ID mandrel? And, consistency with the x-die in bumping shoulders back 1/1000 (or 2/1000)? Thnx

[@nzmiddamoore]

Did you not anneal the brass between resizing?

[@jnljnl8485]

On full pressure 5.56 I would start to worry about case neck thickness.the brass is still flowing to the neck with every firing and is now just getting pushed back into the neck area adding thickness.

[@dadgunnit]

Noob question - does this work on rifles other than bolt-actions? If I have multiple rifles firing the same ammo, is that harder on brass or different than what was shown in this video?

[@kramr7012]

I've used these for 308 and 224 valk semi auto platforms. They work as described, saves time and accuracy is not affected. I shoot out to 1000 yrds. Only have one rifle in each caliber, so I can't speak to your other question

[@Ordrock7]

Did you anneal the brass before the testing? I set up my annealer after the first firing and anneal all of the brass to be reloaded and it seems to allow for better sizing and chambering. I've done a lot of .223 before I started the annealing process and had a ton of reloads that just wouldn't chamber. After the annealing process I have practically zero chambering issues.

[@bpm990d]

You should try it in an AR. You are going to get more growth with that than a bolt gun.

[@m444ss]

very cool

[@AmericanNationalist852]

Here's a question with no answer to be found: After using the xDie can than same brass be sent through a regular FL sizing die? I have a bunch of brass i sized with an small base x die only to find out the runout was awful so i sold the set.

[@onebadjack1313]

That's what worried me watching this. If you mag dump 5.56 then it's probably gtg. If you want accuracy it seems there are much better options out there.

[@ednogaski8806]

Great video

[@o2wow]

Accuracy impact?

[@philjenkins8829]

Any annealing ?

[@christurner5883]

How does this affect accuracy over the life of the case.

[@joshjohnson1653]

No annealing with it?

[@newscoulomb3705]

I wonder whether you'd see these same results in an autoloader.

[@mirekslechta7161]

I just wonder, if new brass was shorter, than the maximum case length is, than is it posible to not trim that case at all even for the very first time?

[@greasydot]

Wonder what happens when you anneal the neck if it will collapse the neck/shoulder junction

[@geraldb4201]

i bought the x=die for the 308 but havent even taken it out of the box yet waiting to get some brass for now but im shooting a remington 742 so not really shooting that gun to often maybe a box or 2 a year its my 30-06 that gets shot the most

[@fisherus]

I'm curious, do you have to use an RCBS ROCK CHUCKER, or can you use a Forrester or something similar to run the die on? I have both, but I moved my RCBS and put my Forrester where it was sitting.

[@8mmmauser896]

Does this work for multiple guns or just one?

[@mirekslechta7161]

Ok I understand that, but does it mean, I would have to keep that die in my press , or can it be removed an put back many times without harming the resulth? I mean, can I continue to using my the only one press with other calibers?

[@JacksonMalcolm]

What did the chamfer look like throughout the test?

[@misterlewgee8874]

Great question

[@hank3152]

No long range F-Class or precision shooter will ever use this because it still grows and that would vary the neck tension. That’s why we trim…. for consistency!

[@Ultimatereloader]

Sounds like a good AMP Press experiment…

[@Ultimatereloader]

With Annealing each time as well

[@hank3152]

@@Ultimatereloader I agree, since I believe the varying neck length, even though it remains within the min/max limits, would increase the bearing surface therefore varying the neck tension…., would it not change the consistency perhaps only negligibly?

[@leonhart2452]

Have you done the same testing using regular dies?

[@GuyHill-e3l]

Why did you trim after the initial casing went in....I thought you said..a no trim die?

[@alanmurdock4319]

Damn, now I need to buy a dozen new dies.

[@mikedeckard8845]

What about shooting the same piece of brass out of several different rifles?

[@robertsahli9998]

What is your Rcbs mounted too? The metal stand on top of the bench! I like the set up compared to an edge of table!

[@russtuff]

I'm pretty sure he uses stuff from Inline Fabrication. He's done videos about them in the past.

[@westend5706]

Did you anneal the brass at any point?

[@Jonnydeerhunter]

Pretty cool.

[@snyd3rcg]

What about accuracy?

[@kcstott]

I don’t trust it. Where is the brass going? Is the neck getting thicker? I have an X die in 30-06 for my garand loads but I don’t use the X feature.

[@ZebulonJakub]

Yeah I’ve had soooo many cases get stuck in x die. Still one stuck. And the case rim broke and actual case is stuck even still. Not happy

[@steveeure5975]

Like to see this used in a Dillon or other progressive press. Also, if my eyes were not deceiving me, it looks like the die did not have a decapping pin. Do you have to decap first, or was the pin just omitted for your test?

[@trg3761]

Die had a decapping pin

[@brandonrenner9597]

223 lapua brass 😮

[@kennethimlej5177]

No annealing??

[@nelsondoan8271]

👍

[@gregoryalford3995]

In my experience.. if one were to to trim 20 thousand short with once fired fully prepared 223 brass. It would take at least 5-6 firings to just to get the brass but to min spec..just saying. What does this die really do?

[@moxiedoxie5395]

Not sure if collapsing the brass length by forcing the mouth down during resizing is a great strategy

[@Shoot_Reload_Repeat]

The thing I don't like about it is your trimming your brass so far in the beginning that you'll probably start getting a carbon ring you want to trim your brass as little as possible to cut back on carbon ring

[@carls.8408]

Please try that in a semi-auto

[@randylahey2242]

0 difference

[@arturojessop6835]

​@@randylahey2242 in theory or from your experience?

[@kramr7012]

I use these for 308 and 224 valk, semi auto. Small base aspect supports semi auto need

[@randylahey2242]

@@arturojessop6835 to the brass there is no difference, it doesn’t know if a hand or gas is running the bolt

[@josephbrasher2501]

Would this be safe for a 223 wylde chamber

[@matthewrezuke8130]

Yep

[@Lucysdad66]

You shouldn't be reloading by yourself if you have to ask a question like that..

[@gregpace4676]

@@Lucysdad66 Sounds like a beginner asking a legitimate question to me, I guess you knew everything about reloading from birth? I have been reloading for 60 years and I love helping new reloaders.

[@bpm990d]

The major difference in the Wylde is in the throat. There is no brass up there in the throat.

[@gutshotgat]

Ever RCBS die I own has been a major disappointment to me. I only buy Lee for standard dies now.

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

I am posting this before watching the video. RCBS dies are from 1938. Hornady has kicked the a$$ of RBS engineering since 1982. I know this because I started reloading in 2006 and thought RCBS was legit. 223-300 win mag I hate RCBS dies. Now I will stop the inflammatory rhetoric and watch the video. Love my Rock Chucker.

[@gregpace4676]

Interesting, I have the opposite opinion. I bought Hornady dies when I started shooting 6.5 CM and at the smallest setting (hard cam over the brass was too big for my Tikka's chamber, and too much neck tension with annealed Hornady brass.I bought RCBS dies and they produce perfectly sized brass.

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

@gregpace4676 Cool to hear it's not your gun.

[@cdavison9491]

Been reloading since 1990, and I prefer rcbs. Really prefer redding bushing does over either.

[@firebladeflow]

what i want is a small base neck sizing only die ...

[@damham5689]

The scientific method. Dont get the results you expected? Adjust the experiment to meet your expectations.

[@toddparsons2980]

Hmm 🤔

[@keimolantio]

Is this Rcbs commercial?

[@WillardGrant]

Try this test in a loose chamber

[@dalesteele6854]

it would not let me give a like

[@blueeyeddevil1]

One continuous take or it doesn’t count 😉

[@kassilewis5511]

Problem looking for a solution. Size your brass normally and trim as necassary.DONE. That has been the way for years on end, if you ate worried about brass flow, you are bumping too far. .0015-.002" bump and your primer pockets will go first.

[@talkingrock7011]

Never trim again because you’re throwing the brass away after you use the die

[@glockparaastra]

In your experience?

[@saradamsmc]

Flawless then

[@joelwright1822]

Brass is expendable. My results mirror this video. I don’t trim bulk range brass that I use in my ARs. Saves a ton of time. If the neck bulges after sizing, I know the length was way past max and I toss it.

[@jefferyboring4410]

I just run a quick trim in a drill only needs it once in a while easy and cheap and keeps em consistent

[@dopeass791]

​@@jefferyboring4410 once in a while sounds super consistent

[@snowman3219]

Nope 👎