Never Trim Again: The RCBS X-Die

[@fordvg]

Bought one back in the 1990’s when it first came out for my Colt National Match AR-15 in .223 and it worked great. Used military and commercial brass with no issues. Was using Accurate 2200 powder and 62 grain bullets.

[@Freetospeak71]

I’ve used the X-dies for over 20 years. Never have an issue. I regular size, trim to say 1.747” for .223, set the X-die to a case that measures exactly 1.750”. Fire, resize with X-die and just repeat and repeat. The cases will eventually fail with split case mouth from work hardening. Have not had case head separation or signs of it. It works as advertised. This is for plinking, shooting steel, and casual target accuracy shooting. If you are doing real tight precision loading I can’t say if it is appropriate or not. But my brass seems to last forever and over time I get 1-2% loss from split mouths which is much less than I lose to range setups making brass retrieval difficult.

[@john-draftanimal]

I love your idea of having a reference trimmed case. Can just keep dialing it into it.

[@bobbydavis3246]

Very interesting concept. I have to believe brass continues to flow upward but the pilot stops it from lengthening. Did the neck thickness increase after each shot?

[@Freetospeak71]

No that isn’t how it flows. Without the X-die brass is allowed to push up as the case is squeezed. As the neck stretches it pulls brass up from the length down to the case head. But if the neck is stopped from moving up the case head is not pushing it up. It is more like the case mouth pulls it. So stop the case neck and there is no flow.

[@kramr7012]

Great product. I use these for 308 and 224 Valk. Works as described by manufacturer. Recommend. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@1jordanledwards1]

Thanks Gavin for another video. Definitely my favorite channel. Love that you are driven by data and engineering. I’m and engineer as well so it’s nice to see another data driven gun nerd and it’s nice to see you using every man’s reloading equipment even though you’ve got area 419 gear everywhere! Can’t lie, a favorite on mine too but some of it’s just more than I’d care to spend. Keep it up!!

[@magic4221]

@@1jordanledwards1 obviously you haven't seen too many of his videos. Majority of which use nothing but Ulta high dollar equipment that only the very wealthy can afford. And normally he has three or more of everything. Am I jealous? Bet your ass I am. The reason I am bitchiñg is he's turned into a shill! And that's just sad.

[@clinkerclint]

Nice to see some innovation. Well done RCBS and UR!

[@Glockman-ps3fo]

I use the x-die for 223 for high power rifle match loads. It works as advertised and has eliminated the need for repeated trimming. I trim to 1.740 and set the die to limit to 1.750. I get consistent accuracy for match loads. I found out about it from Konrad who has a KZbin channel here. I learned from him not to waste time doing reloading things that don’t improve target scores.

[@onebadjack1313]

@@Glockman-ps3fo then what would I use my henderson trimmer for? Lol

[@Roddy556]

Fancy die aside I enjoyed watching your reloading process start to finish and comparing it my own. I use almost all of the same equipment.

[@jorgenjorgensen656]

That single case went through hell this episode

[@brucec2635]

Just starting to load. Thanks for the free master classes.

[@peterslaby9782]

Steep learning curve but worth the effort. I never run out of ammo these days.

[@WilliamMcNeil-r2k]

I used this die for 308 Starline bolt action and I got two stuck cases out of 5 firing. I have since given up on this die set. I was lubing with graphite.

[@sig7798]

I requested you to do a video on the RCBS X-Base die back on 14 Jan. Glad you got around to it. Gavin, wondering if you could do a video on the RCBS X-Base sizing die. Set up and what the benefit is. Thank you.

[@foonus406]

Curious to see the results annealing the brass after every firing. Data points to the brass reaching maximum work hardness at about round 15 and after that springback becomes more noticeable. Wonder how much of this has to do with not annealing between firings, and how much of it is a result of the product. Thanks for the video!

[@arturojessop6835]

This was a question I was thinking throughout the video. I've waited till the end to see if he would address that, but to no avail.

[@greasydot]

Also does the neck get thicker by pushing the brass back. If so the neck tension will be messed up. I would rather trim than turn necks.

[@foonus406]

@@greasydot We know the brass has to go somewhere.. If it's prevented from growing the neck then where is it going? My guess is the shoulder/neck junction of the brass. Ever see what happens to brass when you expand or seat with excess resistance? The whole shoulder collapses or bells out in that exact area. Combined with not annealing I can see this creating an issue in this area leading to eventual separation. Also of interest would be a case capacity test with the virgin brass vs the 20x fired. Its very possible that a "Donut" is building in that junction area and affecting internal case capacity. Good luck trimming THAT one out. I think this type of a sizer would work great for straight wall brass like 45-70 or pistol cartridges but personally I will stick to my conventional Forster sizers for anything with a shoulder.

[@greasydot]

​@@foonus406 think I'll just stay with my bushing dies and case trimmer just because I don't need to spend any more money. 😂😂😂😂

[@greybone777]

I only use small base dies for semi autos. I only trim and neck size for bolt guns. Im slightly skeptical. I clean military brass, ream the primer pockets, prime, dump in Blc2 or varget and get 10 shot dime sized groups with that Hornaday 75 grainer in my CZ . I do the same with 308. I used to watch old timers scoop a case full of IMR4831 in the 06 and cram a 180 gr bullet in. I've done very well not overcomplicting things. Everyone enjoy your hobby the way you like. Just be safe.

[@spazzo5726]

I use a Redding body die (bumping shoulder about 2 though) and Lee collet die ( in that order ) for my 22-250 cases, very minimal stretching. Primer pockets loosened up by the 13th reload.

[@Truckersreloadingbench]

Awesome vid. Like the fact you used basic tools that the average Joe reloader has on his bench

[@nickkalishek2075]

Did I miss the part where you measured case headspace before and after sizing??? Trimming is also about truing up the end of the case. Who cares if it stays short enough if it’s not going to release the bullet consistently?

[@Shadytreemechanic77]

We need more data , accuracy, neck tension, velocity changes , overall case life extended or not ??? Sounds like another U.R. video to me 😂

[@seanf818]

It's not the ultimate reloader, it's the ultimate joker

[@Freetospeak71]

So Gavin loading a case 20 times doesn’t illustrate any increased case life? Often cases will start showing signs of imminent case head separation long before that. And that isn’t to say the X-die sized cases fail after 20 resizing. Practically all of us that have tested for our selves give up after 20 resizing and call it good. I treat as infinity brass until the case mouth splits from work hardening. Tiny percentage.

[@magic4221]

Brass has to move somewhere, i think that shoulder stop is gonna make dounuts around the neck on properly annealed brass

[@randomidiot8142]

Wonder what the loaded neck diameter was before and after.

[@ironDsteele]

100%. I'm also not a fan of these pilots, I like sinclair expander mandrels. There are no free lunches.

[@magic4221]

@@ironDsteele absolutely correct.

[@maurygold74]

This. The brass is either going to donut at the neck, shoulder or .2 - none of which is better than trimming.

[@ironDsteele]

@@maurygold74 I would also like to see measurements of neck runout and thickness after the sizing. That brass WILL flow forward throughout the press stroke to the end and then get crushed backwards. You are trading a normal step in the process (trimming) for at least one or more problems.

[@elchang1688]

Thanks for this topic! I use this die on 30.06 for my M1 Garand. I usually still have to check and trim the brass. My M1 beats up the brass quite a bit. To be safe, I usually replace the brass after 5 firings. I'll try Lapua brass and see.

[@MattFieldPhoto]

You can probably relax a bit. I use this die for M1 also (loading for 150gn, w/H4895) and i have several sets of brass that is approaching 20 reloads

[@mitchculpepper738]

Are you annealing brass at any point in these 20 firings? Is the brass flowing toward the shoulder / neck and creating a thicker case mouth? I would love it to not have to trim brass but I gotta think work hardening / neck tension / creating a bulge / chambering would become a problem. I guess I’m just going to get a RCBS X die myself and put it to the test but I’ve gotta think trimming brass is the way to go because that’s the way it’s been done for 100 years!

[@RussellLamson]

I really like you segment on the X die. My question is the sizing die a full length or neck size only. And do you think it would work well in a forester press. I love the idea of not having to trim and not stretching the brass so much each reload.

[@gangplankoverboard7336]

Center mass at 300yds is good enough for me. Either way there are follow up shots. I just need a 10"window of effect/accuracy.

[@someguy2741]

Being able to load 1 fire 1 is a dream. I have to drive 20 minutes to an indoor range and give them $30. I think i can come and go as much as I want each day but still. I am jealous.

[@erklaerbaer01]

Interesting that you didn't anneal after each firing. That could make a difference in spring back. Those dies are nothing for me. I trim after every firing and also anneal after every firing. I guess you could just use a mandrel die to push the neck back.

[@conunpocodefe]

But what did change on the brass? Measure the 20 times fired brass at all points. Cut it. Measure thickness. It sounds interesting. More data needed.

[@chipsterb4946]

I would only use the small base die for the first re-sizing. Cases should be fire formed to your chamber after that. Effectively under-sizing every time is overworking your brass. I have done this with .308 - small base die for first sizing and then the regular X-Die for subsequent sizing. However, I wouldn’t be comfortable shooting the same case more than 5 or 6 times in any semiauto without annealing.

[@dfabove9108]

After watching the great video that was the first question that came to mind . How often do you anneal ? I anneal all bottle neck cases before trimming .If you were going to do controled batchs of brass do you not anneal after that first trimming ?

[@chipsterb4946]

@ I don’t anneal brass (yet). However, it makes complete sense to anneal after the sizing that stretches cases enough to require trimming. Your comment also makes me think that if the X-Die moves brass less, it might reduce the need to anneal going forward.

[@wvlongshooter3912]

I have this die for my 5.56’s and haven’t set it up. I think I’ll give it a try. Thanks!!

[@kramr7012]

If instructions are followed, you won't be disappointed.

[@Semper_3.14]

This seems cool! Has RCBS come out with something to handle the case swell around the belt on belted magnums? I feel like it’s something they could incorporate into a resizing die. There’s a company that created a collet to address it.

[@geraldb4201]

i bought the x=die for the 308 but havent even taken it out of the box yet waiting to get some brass for now but im shooting a remington 742 so not really shooting that gun to often maybe a box or 2 a year its my 30-06 that gets shot the most

[@thatguyiknow1]

I got a question about him lubing the inside of the mouth with a q-tip. I've not seen this done before. Is this a common practice or is this something you need to do with the X-die in particular? I would have thought lubing the inside of the mouth might give you inconsistent bullet release. What's the deal?

[@mirekslechta7161]

I just wonder, if new brass was shorter, than the maximum case length is, than is it posible to not trim that case at all even for the very first time?

[@ouruiz]

At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="343">5:43</a> you can tell that there is deformation at the shoulder of the case between the 8th firing and the 20th firing, and that is coming from a bolt gun. I own this die as well. I would use .223 cases out of my Ar15s, and eventually that part of the case would crush. If you could be so kind, I would like you (Gavin) to give us data using the same process coming out of an AR15 and show us the results. I think a lot of us would use this die for our gas guns, and not our bolt guns.

[@jonathanschubert9052]

Hey man, for 8 firings, I'll take it!

[@ouruiz]

@@jonathanschubert9052 Lets not forget the rifle that Gavin is shooting it out of. It is a custom precision made rifle with a tight chamber that can shoot lights out with the correct load. I want to see how a case will hold up on a duty rifle like a Colt or BCM.

[@Freetospeak71]

I’ve used it 20 years to reload for multiple AR15s. No issues. Works as advertised.

[@xaviergreyling6620]

Oh WOW! No schlep of trimming! AWESOME! Question/-s: That appears to be a FL die, thus no place for a bushing die to neck size? What is the consistency on the neck ID/neck tension: the x-die ball expander vs using (e.g.) APW ID mandrel? And, consistency with the x-die in bumping shoulders back 1/1000 (or 2/1000)? Thnx

[@midwestbd7144]

I’m curious where the brass to flowing or how much it’s getting work hardened but this seems like a good die for AR-15 plinking brass that often gets lost in the weeds.

[@IWatchedWhat]

I have a set of these in 220 Swift, it mostly works alright, still have to trim about every 6 or 7 reloads. But swift brass only lasts about 8 or 9 reloads for me.

[@MrDGoosen]

Was any annealing done before reaching the 20 firings?

[@garyomalley4521]

Thank you. Great experiment.

[@john-draftanimal]

Curious about the effect of annealing. Also wonder about inside diameter/neck tension through your many reloadings? If the brass can't flow lengthwise it must go somewhere.

[@DLN-ix6vf]

sounds good but do these short dies have an affect on shoulder bump for head space you did not measure shoulder bump before and after full sizing

[@BcFuTw9jt]

Curious to see one on a progressive like a Dillon

[@newscoulomb3705]

I wonder whether you'd see these same results in an autoloader.

[@Paladin1873]

Fish gotta swim, Birds gotta fly, Brass gotta flow, despite the X-dies, Can't help wantin' to know just why. (with apologies to Kern and Hammerstein)

[@bsmith483]

Would annealing change these results any? Since we know that "brass flows", I'm wondering.

[@LouieLefty]

Can you anneal and have the same effect?

[@nzmiddamoore]

Did you not anneal the brass between resizing?

[@mikedeckard8845]

What about shooting the same piece of brass out of several different rifles?

[@oldschooljack3479]

When you size a case brass is displaced and flows up the case body towards the case mouth... So where does the brass go with this die? What's the tradeoff here?

[@christurner5883]

How does this affect accuracy over the life of the case.

[@jnljnl8485]

On full pressure 5.56 I would start to worry about case neck thickness.the brass is still flowing to the neck with every firing and is now just getting pushed back into the neck area adding thickness.

[@MrTacklebury]

Been looking at these lately.

[@greasydot]

Wonder what happens when you anneal the neck if it will collapse the neck/shoulder junction

[@davidunderwood3605]

Would have been interested in seeing multiple cases run through you test.

[@williamsweet7511]

I may have missed it, did you anneal?

[@ZebulonJakub]

Yeah I’ve had soooo many cases get stuck in x die. Still one stuck. And the case rim broke and actual case is stuck even still. Not happy

[@dadgunnit]

Noob question - does this work on rifles other than bolt-actions? If I have multiple rifles firing the same ammo, is that harder on brass or different than what was shown in this video?

[@kramr7012]

I've used these for 308 and 224 valk semi auto platforms. They work as described, saves time and accuracy is not affected. I shoot out to 1000 yrds. Only have one rifle in each caliber, so I can't speak to your other question

[@Freetospeak71]

I use for AR15 and M1 Garands.

[@tommyj7087]

So I am very confused. The expander is normally attached to the decapping pin and you determine the "depth" of it by the protrusion of the pin. What does screwing the expander down more do in this die that made such a difference? It is still going through an expanded case mouth from the firing process, hiding out in the body of the case while the neck is being sized down, and then being pulled through the now smaller neck and expanding it's diameter to the prescribed dimension. Is it just that the necking down and then back up is reduced, thereby reducing the stretch caused by pulling the expander through?

[@Ordrock7]

Did you anneal the brass before the testing? I set up my annealer after the first firing and anneal all of the brass to be reloaded and it seems to allow for better sizing and chambering. I've done a lot of .223 before I started the annealing process and had a ton of reloads that just wouldn't chamber. After the annealing process I have practically zero chambering issues.

[@hank3152]

No long range F-Class or precision shooter will ever use this because it still grows and that would vary the neck tension. That’s why we trim…. for consistency!

[@Ultimatereloader]

Sounds like a good AMP Press experiment…

[@Ultimatereloader]

With Annealing each time as well

[@hank3152]

@@Ultimatereloader I agree, since I believe the varying neck length, even though it remains within the min/max limits, would increase the bearing surface therefore varying the neck tension…., would it not change the consistency perhaps only negligibly?

[@Freetospeak71]

@@UltimatereloaderI appreciate you doing actual experiments with the X-die. I have listened to untold hundreds of naysayers over my 20 years using it successfully who theorize all the ways it can’t work. Without them ever actually trying it. I haven’t had any issues with it and use it regularly. But I would still enjoy seeing any data you get from experiments with annealing or other methods.

[@8mmmauser896]

Does this work for multiple guns or just one?

[@gutshotgat]

Ever RCBS die I own has been a major disappointment to me. I only buy Lee for standard dies now.

[@robertsahli9998]

What is your Rcbs mounted too? The metal stand on top of the bench! I like the set up compared to an edge of table!

[@russtuff]

I'm pretty sure he uses stuff from Inline Fabrication. He's done videos about them in the past.

[@m444ss]

very cool

[@coldfront7914]

Are these results for making rounds that are specifically for one rifle? Also what about semiautomatic rifles? Its my understanding the cases stretch even more in a semi auto.

[@rickschwertner282]

I can't help but think there is one heck of a donut forming

[@moxiedoxie5395]

Not sure if collapsing the brass length by forcing the mouth down during resizing is a great strategy

[@jonathanechols9985]

Time will tell.

[@ednogaski8806]

Great video

[@joearledge]

Where the hell did you find Hornady .224 75 gr A-Max bullets?? are those discontinued, or not released yet??

[@guyminer3168]

I believe that they have been discontinued, but we have quite a stash of older Hornady bullets on hand here at UR. Doesn't really matter for this video, as the focus is the case, not the bullet.

[@gsitzkowitz]

I find that I have to trim more frequently with my AR. Would this make a difference for me?

[@Jonnydeerhunter]

Pretty cool.

[@AmericanNationalist852]

Here's a question with no answer to be found: After using the xDie can than same brass be sent through a regular FL sizing die? I have a bunch of brass i sized with an small base x die only to find out the runout was awful so i sold the set.

[@onebadjack1313]

That's what worried me watching this. If you mag dump 5.56 then it's probably gtg. If you want accuracy it seems there are much better options out there.

[@JacksonMalcolm]

What did the chamfer look like throughout the test?

[@misterlewgee8874]

Great question

[@fisherus]

I'm curious, do you have to use an RCBS ROCK CHUCKER, or can you use a Forrester or something similar to run the die on? I have both, but I moved my RCBS and put my Forrester where it was sitting.

[@bpm990d]

You should try it in an AR. You are going to get more growth with that than a bolt gun.

[@thaddeusmartorell5861]

Plz test 6ARC ALPHA MUNITIONS brass.

[@justsnuggle]

Sobis it only good for bolt guns or semi also?

[@leonhart2452]

Have you done the same testing using regular dies?

[@GuyHill-e3l]

Why did you trim after the initial casing went in....I thought you said..a no trim die?

[@gregoryalford3995]

In my experience.. if one were to to trim 20 thousand short with once fired fully prepared 223 brass. It would take at least 5-6 firings to just to get the brass but to min spec..just saying. What does this die really do?

[@mikesauer7775]

I've had brass do some strange things. I trimmed some stretched 223 brass and loaded 40gr V max doing 3,600fps with Vita Vouri n130. The cases shrunk .010 and the shoulder .002. Why???

[@alanmurdock4319]

Damn, now I need to buy a dozen new dies.

[@Freetospeak71]

I only use the X-die for my high volume shooting calibers like AR15 and M1Garand. For bolt guns I just don’t run through that much brass so an occasional trim is no big deal and brass replacement is also not that often. But going through hundreds of cases several times a year the X-die saves quite a bit of time. The main issue is keeping already X-die sized brass separate from any new brass before it has gone through its first sizing and trim.

[@someguy2741]

Question to rifle reloaders. I reload pistol mostly but picked up a couple of neat rifles that need feeding (an italian M1 Garand in 308 and a Hakim in 8mm mauser). And am looking at trimming and sizing. So... why not just trim a little short and be done with it? It might not be super accurate but if there it a couple thousand of growth over the life of the brass why not just take it down minus 5 thou? For sizing I will probably need to full length sizing each time because they are auto loaders? Any economical 8mm mauser projectiles recommended? I cant seem to find anything that isnt crazy expensive. I can buy a box of 20 cartridges for about $40 (canadian dollars). Primers are still expensive at 25 cents each, used brass maybe 25 cents, powder about 30 cents, if the projectile is 50+ cents... then i start to approach factory prices pretty quickly. The "good" news is the Hakim is so over gassed that it damages pretty much every rim. I will need to make a drill a gas plug to bleed some gas off. The M1 batters the brass so its not much better. I also shoot indoors which sucks. Between all of these I MIGHT be able to reload a brass 3 times before it is wrecked or lost.

[@Freetospeak71]

The issue is not only not trimming but also no case head separation. If you trim then eventually the brass flow from head to case mouth thins the case head area to where it can burst in firing. You will see a lighter ring in the brass when it thins out. With the X-Die the brass does not flow to the neck, in spite of contrary suppositions. Rather than losing brass to incipient case head separation thinning, with the X-die the usual case failure is case mouth splitting after many many reloading. I’ve tested for myself and watch several others test like Gavin did and we all give up after 20 reloadings. It could well last to 30, but nobody OCD enough has gone through the trouble to test to failure. It is beyond 20 loads for sure.

[@VeryFast986]

I've heard you shouldn't run commercial hunting loads in the Garand. These are designed for bolt guns, and the pressures and gas are too much for these WW2 autoloaders.

[@someguy2741]

@@Freetospeak71 That was my thought as well. Its almost always better to shove metal back into shape instead of removing it from the item. The only negative would be pushing it back enough that it buckles the neck but that is just a setup issue. But for conventional trimming is there any reason to not over trim to reduce the need to trimming as often? And since the cartridge indexes off the shoulder then what is the concern with the neck growing in length? The chamber must be tight to the end of the neck. If it is too long then it binds the neck into the end of the chamber. If it's too short there would be a carbon ring which would be a mess. Thats the best I can come up with so far.

[@someguy2741]

@@VeryFast986 I have heard this too but these Italian rifles are more modern military rifles. They used these for quite some time. They are also chambered in 308 instead of 30-06 so the unnecessary extra power of the bigger cartridge isn't there. That being said I was trying to find lower power or lower pressure reloading formulas because I don't need a lot to shoot paper :p

[@mirekslechta7161]

Ok I understand that, but does it mean, I would have to keep that die in my press , or can it be removed an put back many times without harming the resulth? I mean, can I continue to using my the only one press with other calibers?

[@westend5706]

Did you anneal the brass at any point?

[@steveeure5975]

Like to see this used in a Dillon or other progressive press. Also, if my eyes were not deceiving me, it looks like the die did not have a decapping pin. Do you have to decap first, or was the pin just omitted for your test?

[@trg3761]

Die had a decapping pin

[@o2wow]

Accuracy impact?

[@Shoot_Reload_Repeat]

The thing I don't like about it is your trimming your brass so far in the beginning that you'll probably start getting a carbon ring you want to trim your brass as little as possible to cut back on carbon ring

[@Freetospeak71]

You can set the length to anything you want. Gavin chose his preferred length. You could go 1.760” or 1.770” or whatever.

[@spraynpray]

A product so easy to use the guy named Ultimate Reloader can't do it without the help of the manufacturer.

[@Freetospeak71]

Actually he did not follow the instructions in the given sequence. Reading is essential but common sense once you understand the principle.

[@lovetoflylovetofly3843]

And how about annealing every firing?

[@joshjohnson1653]

No annealing with it?

[@philjenkins8829]

Any annealing ?

[@devlinoshay9520]

I don't get it. If I had some exotic brass I wanted to keep forever then OK, maybe I'd invest in a special die. But to save time? Who's going to shoot 5.56 brass 20 times?

[@carls.8408]

Please try that in a semi-auto

[@randylahey2242]

0 difference

[@arturojessop6835]

​@@randylahey2242 in theory or from your experience?

[@kramr7012]

I use these for 308 and 224 valk, semi auto. Small base aspect supports semi auto need

[@randylahey2242]

@@arturojessop6835 to the brass there is no difference, it doesn’t know if a hand or gas is running the bolt

[@EsyuDach]

bet that changes when you're using an autorifle.

[@kcstott]

I don’t trust it. Where is the brass going? Is the neck getting thicker? I have an X die in 30-06 for my garand loads but I don’t use the X feature.

[@brandonrenner9597]

223 lapua brass 😮

[@snyd3rcg]

What about accuracy?

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

I am posting this before watching the video. RCBS dies are from 1938. Hornady has kicked the a$$ of RBS engineering since 1982. I know this because I started reloading in 2006 and thought RCBS was legit. 223-300 win mag I hate RCBS dies. Now I will stop the inflammatory rhetoric and watch the video. Love my Rock Chucker.

[@gregpace4676]

Interesting, I have the opposite opinion. I bought Hornady dies when I started shooting 6.5 CM and at the smallest setting (hard cam over the brass was too big for my Tikka's chamber, and too much neck tension with annealed Hornady brass.I bought RCBS dies and they produce perfectly sized brass.

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

@gregpace4676 Cool to hear it's not your gun.

[@cdavison9491]

Been reloading since 1990, and I prefer rcbs. Really prefer redding bushing does over either.

[@kennethimlej5177]

No annealing??

[@firebladeflow]

what i want is a small base neck sizing only die ...