New 3D Printer - Build Log #16

[@avibank]

You sound like David Jones from EEVblog. Interesting video!

[@craigmunday3707]

It's like they are brothers

[@princemiro7241]

Exactly

[@MiggyManMike]

How's this performing a few months in ?

[@candogancan5574]

I have been using carbon fiber for last 3 months and I can achieve high speeds easily. 100 mm/sec is normal speed and I tried 200, 300 and can print in a very satisfactory quality. Especially printing a draft prototype is in minutes. So it works.

[@AdityaMehendale]

Hi Tech2C, no new videos from you in recent days - hope everything is ok! Was wondering about your "learnings" with carbon-tubes/ Igus-bearings combo - A "hindsight" video would be appreciated! Cheers

[@brianboni4876]

@2:24 Aluminum is also a man made product. Although aluminum is an element on the periodic table it does not occur naturally on earth because of its strong affinity for oxygen. Most aluminum is refined from bauxite ore in an energy intensive process that produces a large amount of toxic tailings. Carbon seems to exist everywhere but the epoxy resins that hold the fibers together are a product of the modern chemical industry. I must say these rods are going to look awesome with my black extrusions. I'm ordering today! What's next on the weight loss program? Remote mount blowers? Carbon fiber printed carriage parts?

[@the_truth_seeker334]

I lubricated the tubes with pencil lead powder (graphite) and it's super smooth. I am using the protruded version of tubes and it seems good and I didn't face any issues until now for some 8 months.

[@wizard-ew5ze]

After 10 months of use how are you finding these c/f rails? Also how are the bushes holding up ?

[@MrFlatox]

One way to avoid having carbon fiber powder all over your workshop is to sand or cut the carbon fiber in a sink, with a little bit of water. Water also help with the sanding process

[@EngineeringVignettes]

Thanks for the update. I'm running mine with 8mm steel at lower speeds and accels. I will have to pick up some 10mm carbon fibre tubes. Will need to reprint some parts tho. - Eddy

[@charlesworton4020]

Brilliant idea swapping over to carbon fiber. I'll bet it works really well. Sailors have a fiberglass polish that really makes resin surfaces shine - might work here as well. On my end, I'm building a corexy variant with a 20 inch - AKA 504 mm - print bed. So I really need 600 mm tubing, which is not easy to find in any dimension. Thinking about using spring loaded bushings made out of ABS; as they wear, the spring maintains tension on one side, and the ABS replacement pads can be easily printed as required.

[@martinfric11]

I know it has passed 5 years, but from my experience petg is great bearing/bushing material... so petg pads would be better

[@terminallcpl7509]

It would totally go to figure that around the time I about to give up on finding the aluminium tube, you pop up with this carbon fiber video and totally save my sanity by once again feeding my obsession. LOL And here I was, thinking about bribing ya with candy for a source for the aluminium tube. Love your channel bro. I got all the parts ordered and just waiting for them to come in. Really looking forward to the build. Keep up the awesome work buddy.

[@IPIX360]

Do you think that it is a feasible ideea to 3d print carbon fiber threaded rod (M6 size) for an vertical linear motion mechanism (to lift 2 kg for 1 time per day)? I need to avoid metal in my environment.

[@clypeum5063]

i ordered all the parts yesterday! im really looking forward to build this beauty

[@vizionthing]

Still waiting for the last few orders here - how did you get on?

[@glenellis1530]

vizionthing

[@richardr3178]

Simply brilliant! Very nice project!

[@paulcamerloher2379]

Did you publish the CAD files of this printer anywhere? - Because I do not want to use the bronze bushings so I have to adopt some of the parts.

[@igorvlasiuk6432]

Nice. Will try this setup also. Wanted to ask if to change 20 teeth tooth pulleys to 16 teeth - will it increase accuracy?

[@Tollyman69]

Tech2C, I have build this printer and it has worked great for the last 6 months but recently the belts on the back right idler pulleys slip off when moving from the front left to back right diagonal direction. I checked to make sure all the belts are parallel and square. Would you have any input for what could be causing this? Thanks!

[@kurtbilinski1723]

I know this is an old video, but I don't think that carbon fiber tubes, at least the easily available ones, are appropriate for this use. They're typically wound over a mandrel, so while the ID will be accurate, the outside is left as only an approximation. Worse, the tube is a mix of carbon fiber and epoxy, so as a wear surface, the epoxy isn't going to last. Also, carbon fiber - especially after sanding - will be highly abrasive, and can abrade through whatever coating there is inside those bearing sleeves. I wish it would work, but I just can't go with it for my build. That said, if you report back several years later (like about now!) that they're still working great, and haven't worn through the bushing material, I stand corrected!

[@justinfielding]

Surely the bearings will grind down the rods? CF isn't that resistant to abrasion, it's just very stiff and light.

[@bananapunks]

How are the rods holding up after a year? Not scratched up yet?

[@jaistanley]

I'm building one at the moment. i put the carbon fibre rod in a drill and ran it at medium speed, with a strip of sandpaper wrapped on it to make sure it stays round. Unfortunately my rods aren't perfectly round to start with or perfectly straight, which is disappointing. Igus have aluminium rods on their website, and also reduced tolerance bearings for a closer fit. I.might give them a go, especially as i was hoping to use the full 500mm length.

[@smoochies5056]

have u tried titanium round bar?

[@Munky332]

Is it necessary to increase in diameter? I've been thinking about replacing my rods on my Anet A8 in the Z (they're a tad bit wobbly, could use new ones to eliminate z-banding) as well as X axis (reduced weight seems like a great idea all around, plus that axis too is bound to be wobbly/not straight). -- I believe stock rods are 8mm? Could I go with 8mm (OD) carbon fiber rods?

[@TheRoKitMan08]

I haven't kept up on the series that much but do you think you can go over the software and calibrating the board to the new printer, and if you have wich video is that?

[@MarkoDMFX]

i am ordering all gear for the hypercube build. but finding the aluminium rods is indeed hard. i am gone try the carbon fiber ones and hope that my bushings dont get damaged.

[@trobert132]

Can you give an update? How does it hold up? Thanks.

[@Davvyk]

How have these carbon rods held up over time? Thinking of doing the same,.

[@eximiamedia7897]

Im looking into building a large area (500x500) hypercube. I love the idea of carbon fiber tubes for the x axis. Do you think that as the span gets larger the deflection of the CF tubes becomes an issue? Maybe stepping up to 12mm OD? Ive never delt with CF tubes and this is my first concern.

[@Sevendogtags]

So what's the alternative to those Igus bushings? Igus doesn't ship to were I am. And I couldn't find any distributers that did.

[@76Richie19]

I'd go with igus bushings on the carbon fiber. they're self lubricant and should work pretty good.

[@consig1iere294]

How about buying a slightly bigger inner diameter hollow cf rod and cut them into pieces to make bushings?

[@PvtPrivate]

Will the carbon fibre rods work with the steel bushings?

[@sabership]

Good video as always! Quite helpful and informative.

[@mackdonk]

is it cheaper to make one like this or buy one? thanks

[@-Gunnarsson-]

Half of the rods in my new i3 mega was bananas. So I replacing them with stainless steel from Misumi. Only way to go. Weight is not an issue in my case thought.

[@KennethScharf]

for the sanding, I would have tried fine steel wool, and maybe have chucked the rod in a drill to spin it, while running the steel wool up and down the length of it.

[@puterpro2435]

Yep, me too. But I think that spinning in a portable drill with 800 or 1200 grit UNDER RUNNING WATER (or as ade rl says, soapy water) would be even better. The water serves 3 purposes: acts as a coolant, acts as a lubricant for smoother sanding, and handles the carcinogenic dust!

[@goldbunny1973]

So speaks a wise man who has "been there spun that". Good Tip.

[@tremeregoratrix]

Which bearings do you recommend for carbon fiber rods?

[@diy-dash6103]

What's the overall weight of your X gantry, including all bearings ect? It would serve as a good reference for my linear rail build. Thanks.

[@losangelina4516]

I'm pretty sure M3D uses carbon rods, and they held up nicely when I used mine.

[@wrxsubaru02]

You should have designed some tiny rubber v slotted wheels so there is no friction since the surface is just a resin finish. I think if you made a triangle roller wheel mount it would be perfect.

[@ilyas5708]

It'd definitely take up more space

[@redpillcommando]

I am following the trail you have blazed and I just ordered carbon fiber rods from you amazon affiliate link. Keep up the good work.

[@idig3d]

Great research. Excellent video!

[@LindaMaricas]

Great! Would even match nicer with my black extrusions :)

[@Tech2C]

Yeah that would look sik!

[@sickvic3909]

Photo of her or extrusions?

[@RalphV]

I have a make with black extrusion www.thingiverse.com/make:311895

[@LindaMaricas]

It's still a work in progress sadly - there's many black versions on thingiverse though :)

[@chrisoakland8036]

I'll give you my black extrusions ;)))

[@mikejanssen1255]

After almost two years, how is the wear on the carbon rods? Is it wearing like crazy of is it doing well?

[@Tech2C]

Surprising well. The bushing is made of a polymer so it should be wearing, not the rods. Anyway I'm still using it as is. Cheers.

[@Destructorbr]

hi, can i use bronze bushing on glossy carbon fiber rods or have some some problem in movement?! thanks!

[@liammeyerphotography8974]

@Tech2C hey mate I'm looking to build your printer as my first printer only problem is I have no way of printing the parts. do you print and sell these parts or do you have an affiliate link to a company who does as I would prefer to support you than go through a third party. thanks Liam

[@jhk22]

Will you be updating the BOM on thingiverse for all the little updates you have done?

[@justindelpero]

If you're still active, can you check out the RJUM-01-10 IGUS bearings? Drop in replacement for the LM10UU I bet they might even sponsor a video?

[@neokokido]

Very promising results. Do you think carbon fiber would sag less than metals over a longer run than metal, say like 1.5-2 meters due to it's stiffness? It would be nice to be able to ponder a large format table top printer and mainly worry about keeping tension on the belt instead of droop in the middle :P

[@brendanfennell9592]

I think it likely would, but I think the weight of the materials plays a key role in that as well. Based on the measurements of the masses of the materials he provided, taking into account the 15mm shorter the steel rod was than the others, we can find that the linear masses of the materials in their usable form are; 10x8mm Carbon Fiber Rod:44.4g/m, 10x5.2mm Anodised Aluminum Tube:155.5g/m, 8mm Steel Rod:395.6g/m, 10mm Steel Rod:618.2g/m (Extrapolated using the differences in surface area of 8mm vs 10mm steel rods). I'm not a materials scientist, so I can't comment reliably on the stiffness of these materials (maybe someone here is and could), but I would assume they are all fairly comparable for our uses. What you should take away from this though, is that for every 1cm you stretch the carbon fiber tube, you save ~3.5g of elevated mass over the 8mm steel rods. Moving from a carbon fiber tube to an 8mm steel rod in a 1.5m-2m assembly would be like adding a 523g-702g mass spread over the length of the tube, surely not insignificant.

[@_Piers_]

neokokido I think the main problem would be finding high quality carbon fiber tubes with rather higher wall thickness than used here... at a reasonable price. You could use larger diameter tubes, but I'd assume that the larger bushings wouldn't be cheap.

[@danielkruger4305]

You could drop a little more weight by switching to the inductive sensor that is used on the Prusa i3 mk2.

[@meesternadim]

I ordered the ramps board from the thingiverse page, and as soon as I turned on the heatbed, the mosfet gave the magic smoke and melted a bit of the plastic of the connectors next to it. With the MK3 heated bed and a 12 volt psu, the amount of current is too much for it to handle I guess. This might not be an issue with a 24 volt psu because of the lower current draw. Also if the wrong mosfet is used, it's possible that the ~4.5 volts arduino can deliver isn't enough to fully 'open' the mosfet, which can cause lots of heat.

[@9998-d6n]

how much of a difference will the weight of the xyjoiners make to the movement

[@amateurtech736]

Could I use 2mm thick 8 mmm tube instead as the design I am using to convert my sd4 to corexy is designed for 8 mm steel?

[@charlesworton4020]

Hey, I don't have any experience with carbon fiber tubing. Will a 10mm x 600mm tube sag? Maybe I want a larger diameter? >Charlie in Canada

[@yangyunbo1]

thats pretty cool.i have bought all the parts though i am gonna use 8mm steal rod in my x axis .maybe i will upgrade it to 10mm carbon fiber rod,at all lighter is better!

[@Tollyman69]

Tech2c, ive read through most of the comments and i cant seem to find anything on using the brass bushings with the CF tube? You had used the brass bushings with the aluminium rods but how do you think they would work with CF? Ive seen quite a few comments asking this but haven't seen any intelligent answers.

[@Tech2C]

I've read on banggood reviews of people using the brass bushings on CF tubes without an issue. The bushings aren't brass, they are steel with a copper cladding exterior to look like brass. The interior of the bushing is coated in a lubricant which assists the slide over the CF, presumably without damaging the CF surface. For the cheap price, I would definitely try it as it should last a very long time regardless of wear on the CF tubes.

[@Tollyman69]

Tech2C Thank you for the reply! I just ordered most of the components to build the hypercube but i decided to make it taller by approx 350mm. (More like a hyper-rectangle) I'll be sure to post some images to thingiverse as a remix! Thank you for all that you have contributed to the community

[@GregAtlas]

My CF rods just arrived and I get between 9.81 and 9.74mm OD. Thickness is 0.95mm. Hopefully they'll still work, but I'm a little disappointed with the tolerances. Edit: I did a roll test on a nice flat surface and they're definitely slightly curved, too. :(

[@foam27]

Most importantly, did you increase your Y axis acceleration values? I mean, that's the whole point.

[@Berantis]

Hi, Is it possible / indicated to use carbon fiber in the X, Y and Z axis?

[@leonardvdj]

Couldn't you use the carbon fibre rods in place of all other smooth rods too? Or would that not work out? edit: also have you tried pushing the print speed to 100-200mm/s?

[@myopinion69420]

its a bit late, but there is no reason to use the carbon fiber for the other smooth rods, as the gantry has the only ones that move. in fact, you kind of want the rest of the frame to be on the heavy side to help stop vibrations.

[@KarolisBorkertas]

What bushings you have now ?

[@JamieBainbridge]

Igus JSM-1012-10. Watch the previous build log video, they are the first link in the video description.

[@HaloGuysLife]

so.. this is where bambulab was inspired

[@enistrgt]

I think it would be good if you managed to plate them with chrome (I am not sure it is possible but I hope it is). I would expect wear on carbon fiber, even more than aluminium, because epoxy is very soft material.

[@crbnated]

npgoalkeeper _ carbon fiber is conductive.

[@neuxstone]

Haaa. Did you really rip a hunk of paper off the corner of that sheet? My dad the body man would cringe. Fold the paper sharply back and forth twice with fingernail against a table and neatly tear along that line. Now you can make strips and sand it proper by wrapping the paper around the rod instead of making flat spots along its length. You're a genius that's why that surprised me!

[@AntonD]

hey tech2c , were i can find the platic bushing?

[@quinnyrethus]

Really cool alternative for the x axis. I wonder if carbon fiber rods would be strong enough for the y axis as well? Maybe even z axis? Looking forward to seeing how they hold up over time. Great video's mate, I can't wait to sink my teeth into building a Hypercube possibly with the 250x250 bed from Aurarum.

[@hasso0n]

Well, since the Y and Z rods don't move I cant really see any point to using them there, Unless it's just for the looks.

[@quinnyrethus]

Yeah just for looks haha. Also would save weight if you wanted to transport the cube around.

[@hgabor47]

Hi, I would like to make your 3D printer. Thanks your develop. I have a 3D Qu-Bd printer for printing the parts but I created some test and I think I will not be able to print some parts (XY joiner with bridges) or are there any special know how?

[@JakeyPlay]

I'd love to see how carbon tubes would perform on the y and z axis. Maybe overkill 10/6 tubes? :>

[@danielkruger4305]

I don't think there is any advantage to using carbon fiber tubes over steel when the rod/tube is stationary.

[@JakeyPlay]

I was talking about stiffnes only. I wonder if the carbon tubes are stiffer than steel rods. If yes, maybe they can improve y artefacts and printbed slant. Of course difference will be very small but when it comes to as such awesome design as HyperCube the improvement may be highly desired. Just saying ;>

[@jakeharms1386]

Really like to do an ultimate type setup with CF rod

[@felixdietzCGN]

are you even sanding the actual carbon fiber or is it more the binding resin? Those rods seem to have a somewhat "thick" coat on the outside.

[@Tech2C]

Yes, we buy these in either a gloss or matte surface, which would most likely be the resin surface. Either way it was very simple to sand and smooth down.

[@felixdietzCGN]

It'll be interesting to see how this holds up in the long run. It should act like a rod made from pure resin and thus be easier "sanded" down by the bearing movement + dust. Or not? Time will tell :-D

[@princemiro7241]

Link to the bushings?

[@3DIYOriginal]

Awesome !!! 👍👍👍

[@adibbins]

Great video, thanks I was suffering finding the anodised tubes, and had settled on using steel, but now I think I'll also try the CF tubes. FYI What's with the cork under the build plate, I think I've missed a tip a long the way?

[@Tech2C]

The cork is insulating the heated bed. It helps the bed heat up faster and hold the heat in.

[@robb2056]

Yep I am building one!!!

[@DavidRobertsonUK]

I wonder if PTFE or nylon rod would be rigid enough...

[@Wodpuncher001]

Is it good to lubricate the Carbonfibre tubes?

[@OutOfNameIdeas2]

Duh ofc. Its A REQUIREMENT...

[@davidgreen8828]

Any notes on Glossy vs Matte finish rods? Matte finish are sold out...

[@Tech2C]

It shouldn't matter. Once you give them a light sanding the finish is the same.

[@ZSFormations]

HI, Were is XY joiner for 10 MM ??? thxx

[@bbogdanmircea]

Please make a video about noise and how to avoid it ? Like resonance . Can you measure db level ?

[@sahiljain7227]

Do you know if linear ball bearings work on the carbon fiber rods? Also, do you think that an 8mm rod would be stiff enough?

[@EngineeringVignettes]

IMHO probably a bad idea. The bearings will likely cause damage to the carbon fibre and resin over time. Better to use low friction solid bearings. - Eddy

[@EngineeringVignettes]

As to the 8mm rods, I am using those now. They are fine but you are limited to ~ 60 mm/s and you may need to lower acceleration to prevent overshoot on the corners. - Eddy

[@sahiljain7227]

Why is the 8mm rod the limiting factor? Is there flex?

[@sahiljain7227]

Also, do you know definitively that the rods will not be able to take the bearings, or is that an assumption?

[@EngineeringVignettes]

It's the mass of the 8mm steel that is the limiting factor to speed and acceleration. That's why these carbon fibre rods (if they pass long term testing) will be the superior solution.

[@egeeren6746]

do you use heatbed i have never seen in your videos

[@christophercorriher3145]

Can you use carbon fiber tubes for the y and the z as well?

[@Tech2C]

Carbon tubes aren't as stiff as steel. They work on the X axis because the forces are parallel, but with Y and Z axis the forces are perpendicular which will bend the carbon.

[@christophercorriher3145]

Tech2C So how screwed am I if I ordered carbon tubes for the y and z

[@Tech2C]

Not screwed at all if you order steel :P

[@alex8stevens]

I got 30s in and I have ordered already lol

[@whitecloudsschools8080]

The carbon tube i got from BAnggood seems to be 9.85 mm and not 10mm. Would it affect anything???

[@whitecloudsschools8080]

I missed it. Can you tell me which build log is it?

[@Tollyman69]

I have the same issue with the carbon fiber tubes

[@3dprosper965]

hi there i was just going to ask if you can change the size of 10mm to 8mm holes on the xy iders and the the distance between them could make them closer together as i want it to fit my prusa i3 x carriage the distance is 54mm from the top of the hole to the bottom hole for the carriage and also i need to use 8mm linear bearings

[@EngineeringVignettes]

Check the thingiverse hypercube remixes for 8mm versions of the XY parts (for 8mm X axis). I don't think they have remixes for adapting different print heads tho.

[@3dprosper965]

on my prusa i3 my x carriage will not fit the hyper cube xy part

[@AndrewMurphy8383]

did you think that it might need to have some lube on the rod

[@ray-charc3131]

HA! how about the rough surface it is, it tends to wear after some time.

[@bojojojo1500]

how about Brass tube with Brass bushing?

[@cy-one]

mhm, my brain is thinking about 12mm carbon tubes with Vesconite Superlube bushings....

[@tontsa955]

But can i use 8mm rods? They are easier to get and i dont mind if i have to print slower.

[@Tech2C]

Sure you can. Checkout the Thingiverse link in the description to the Hypercube. There are alternatives to using 10mm Alu including 8mm steel.

[@tontsa955]

Thanks for answering. Nice printer by the way.

[@lumpy-porridge]

Is there any reason this can't be used on the y axis so igus bushings can be used instead of the noisy LM8UU bearings? Also for aesthetics ;)

[@Tech2C]

I'm using the longer linear bearings on my Y axis - LM8LUU - they aren't very loud. You can try bushings on the Y axis but just ensure they don't bind up.

[@lumpy-porridge]

Good point, I am thinking it may be necessary to modify the XY joiners to hold the bushings in a cylinder like the x carriage does. Then it's more a question of whether the aluminium or CF are rigid enough to take the load of the entire x gantry and rail setup. BTW, awesome design and videos :)

[@lumpy-porridge]

...and the CF banggood rods are out of stock. Probably your fault for posting the link here ;)

[@Optron5]

Is it possible to use such tubes (8x6mm) with LM8LUU?

[@flakey1228]

If you are talking about linear bearings then I do not think so. As far as I know only use hardened precision steel rods in combination with linear bearing. The steel balls inside the bearings are made out of spring steels which is extremely hard. If you would use a normal steel guide rod or aluminium the balls would eat a groove into the guide rods.

[@jonathankorte5759]

You can buy materials like the tube in top quality from IGUS in Germany ☺

[@_Piers_]

Jonathan Korte Yeah, it is *slightly* more expensive though :p

[@PurchenZuPoden]

Fibre reinforced plastic is always not a good idea because of a higher friction coefficient. that is why plastic gears and bushings are always made wiothout fibers. I bought my Aluminium rods directly online from igus, you can do this as a private person even without a company. In germany you can also purchase them from motedis.com

[@vhoward1122]

I would have used wet/dry sandpaper and sanded wet to control any carbon fiber dust. That dust mask was not adequate.

[@michaelstoffel8441]

will be interesting to see if the plastic wares or the carbon tube i'm betting on the plastic

[@lukeslater5046]

what splicer do you use?

[@aderl6220]

+Tech2C thanks for another awesome video for this series. I have built a Hypercube3d and I have to say it's amazing specially in contrast to the i3 I had before. just as a tip slightly soapy water can be used along with the carbon sand paper to catch all the nasty particles :-)

[@Tech2C]

Great tip!!!

[@mannycalavera121]

You should be able to polish that to a glass like finish.

[@Tech2C]

The surface felt very smooth after sanding with 800 grit sand paper, and I'm sure finer sand paper would be beneficial.

[@jaistanley]

Hi.. Thank you so much for the videos. They have been very entertaining and now I quite fancy building another printer. I have a CTC Makerbot clobe, and there are a large number of parts on it that are almost perfect for a Hypercube - not quite though. I will have to make some adjustments to a few parts. I've found the files on Thingivers of course, but they are STL's. Do you have STP (or any other format I can convert) that we can use to base our own designs/modifications on? Again, many thanks!!

[@ahmedmack5960]

i guess im randomly asking but does anybody know of a tool to get back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost the login password. I love any tricks you can give me.

[@christianroberto9552]

@Ahmed Mack instablaster :)

[@ahmedmack5960]

@Christian Roberto I really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and I'm trying it out now. Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@ahmedmack5960]

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[@christianroberto9552]

@Ahmed Mack No problem =)