New Apache Flight Model is negating some previous advice | DCS World Apache

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Hardware:
intel core i9-13900k, 64GM RAM, Zotac 4090 GPU
Joystick: VKB Gunfighter III with 20cm extension
Pedals: Virpil ACE
Throttle: Virpil Mongoose 3

[@williamwinborne3253]

Thanks for making the full video explaining your gripes. I hate taking off and landing right now and it’s nice for you to explain why!

[@TomP-148]

I constantly spin around on the ground like I'm on ice. Even with the parking brake on. ED said they can't reproduce it.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Sounds like the rolled out the off build with that issue and their dev versions are fine XD

[@Leaddinosaur]

Experienced everything you demonstrated. It’s been a while since I’ve flown the Apache. Wondered what was wrong! Thank you for putting it out there. Hopefully ED corrects the issue soon. Great content.

[@scarygarybusey]

i have issues with unlocking the tail wheel and the aircraft spinning in place with the collective completely down.

[@dmsdmullins]

Noticed this just after the last update. Had probably 20-30 successful landings in a row before, then 5 crash landings in a row. Got it under control now (almost) but it acts like it wants to murder you at touchdown.

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

You are the best teacher for the community. Thank you so much.

[@bobbyguns100]

wow that sliding thing is bazaar ! I hate when they miss such huge part of the flit dynamic during updates. I know helicopters roll a bit, but sliding to the right like it's on ice is not normal ! I think Cosmo has contact with the ED guys, I hope he passes this information to them

[@bobbyguns100]

@John Doehler I actually got online , to see if anyone else had noticed the Ice Skating ⛸️ issue! I hadn’t played for a while.This was the first thing I noticed when I added power to the aircraft during takeoff it started to “ Ice Skat” to the right. I thought it was me being a bit rusty but after numerous attempts I started searching for answers online. If you take off like you should with small inputs and power I don’t see how you could miss the issue !

[@lakota2-1warden]

It feels like even more work to fly. I went from flying it 25 hours a week to less than 3 hours because it's so tiring trying to deal with it.

[@100PercentAllAmericanMan]

Same here. A little irritated as a paying customer. I hate the "Shut up and take it because it is early access attitude from DCS." I just choose not to fly and get on the trails on my MTB instead.

[@toddw6716]

I found myself enjoying it less and have gone back to the F16.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I currently enjoy Asgard's Wrath a lot so I'll probably not even have to face this at all, but yeah. I genuinely thing stuff like this can happen in Open Beta, but the real chokepoint would be how long it will take to get it straightened out. If it's fixed in one of the next one or two updates, I don't really see that big of an issue, but if it's here to stay for a year or two, not even playing Stable branch would save you from the woes - and to be fair, for a lot of issues, that truly is the matter of fact, sadly.

[@cerdon4076]

​@100PercentAllAmericanMan DCS players going outside (impossible)

[@stefanonapoli7282]

Thanks a lot Casmo. I was going crazy trying to figure it out where I was making mistakes in taxing and having a spin with zero collective and pedals, and also why sometimes I rolled on a side after touchdown, crashing my blades. Thank you a lot!

[@Eleolius]

So glad you discovered the rightwards slide issue. I didn't understand why the Apache seemed to suddenly self destruct every landing or takeoff when every other helo in sim doesn't do this at all. Trying to do this stuff under combat conditions is nearly impossible and it makes it so worse when you have a gunner depending on you. Or when you NEED to reliably put down to evade radar detection, or rearm at a farp, etc, with no nearby respawn. Makes the Apache too risky to fly in most servers when you already are very vulnerable to DCS overtuned G2A AI, and seemingly all-knowing CAP. Gave this module a break without having George doing the takeoff/flying and just accepting that landings were suicidal half the time.

[@tuggyboat]

Lucky to have you in the community, Thanks

[@godofm3tal1]

As a budding learner if the ah64 I have been struggling with this. Didn't seem like taking off should be that difficult. Glad to know this is just borked flight model development that will hopefully get fixed.

[@AaramisEQ]

So glad I found this. Just joined DCS, trying the tutorial for Apache, and struggling with the FM with the exact issues you listed. Thank you for the vindication.

[@ComradeFury]

Personally i didn't really notice anything changing on takeoff with the changes, but definitely noticed landing was a lot more difficult

[@Rhinozherous]

I hope this sliding right nonsense gets a fix fast :P

[@CasmoTV]

I’m sure it will. Once you recognize what it is, it’s surmountable. But it took me a while to figure out what was wrong.

[@generic_luke]

Been having a good time learning the Hip lately. Guess Ill stick with it until they get this sorted. Hopefully they will get around to fixing it some time soon.

[@fh4635]

+1 but Hind for me for the same reasons

[@ColonelAkirNakesh]

+2 the Hip and Hind are both so great.

[@OfMoachAndMayhem]

4 months later.... Just picked up the '64 yesterday, and I haven't encountered any sliding issues - Coming from the future, I'm now (will be then) in version 2.9 and perhaps the issue has been (will be) solved in the intervening months. Haven't checked the change logs yet, but it's either not a problem anymore or I somehow missed it. Though it'd be seems like something one would notice even if not previously warned. That makes me think the issue is no longer (won't be) a thing in 2.9

[@gainesvillereef6800]

Great video. I thought it was me because I had been spending a lot of time on other aircraft. I agree this needs to be fixed soon.

[@PaulinusWußmann]

Thanks for the video... I almost wanted to switch back to the ka 50 because I thought I was just too bad for the Apache or my joyetick wasn't that good

[@AdastraRecordings]

Thank christ I found this after watching your original tutorial, get her up as quick as possible was the best solution I found, glad I wasn't wrong.

[@renanmonteirobarbosa8129]

Imagine all Apache Pilots irl pissed at this new FM

[@CasmoTV]

Nah it’s not THAT bad. We all agree that certain parts are better.

[@vasilisroukis1108]

i was putting some much left... and then i thought my controls were messed, but no.. thank you for this video im sure ED will give attention to this

[@JobraKai]

Holding steady and takeoff is a bit more squirrelly than I remembered

[@TomartinSauce]

"ground friction no longer appears to exist" 😀 This version has made trimming harder for me (short gunfighter3, soft springs) I think my issues are hardware... I also have a problem in apache where after I trim, the cyclic becomes unresponsive until I make a "big" aft input which creates a bit of a gnarly flight condition until I can regain control of helo... if anyone else has that issue or has solved it, I'd love to hear how you did it. By contrast I have no problems in the Huey which trims exactly as all these videos on trimming would suggest the sim should...

[@TheSwedishSalamander]

Your trimmer mode in the main menu options might not be set to instantaneous, the other mode makes you centre the stick before it becomes usable.

[@TomartinSauce]

@@TheSwedishSalamander holy shark repellent Batman. I must have forgot to change that back when I was tinkering… because that seems to have made a huge difference. Cheers!

[@rl2204]

Still spins when you unlock the tail wheel

[@CasmoTV]

Sadly true

[@HeliShed]

Thanks Cas. good honest report.

[@valuedhumanoid6574]

Wags has left the chat...

[@CasmoTV]

He’s always watching…

[@hmleao]

Thanks for this, Casmo. Great stuff. ED's always changing stuff, making it better, hopefully this is just momentary. Did you try the Huey? What's your opinion on it?

[@FuzzyKedama]

Thanks Casmo for confirming this. Haven't been playing much cuz of work (also will need to build new PC soon) but when I did, I thought it was all weird cuz I was drinking too much haha. Good to see its not just me. Hope ED gets a fix for this soon.

[@towjam1]

I thought it was just me. Thank you

[@lander1591]

6 Months later.. Trial of the AH64D Module.. It's still acting like this. Is ED still actively developing this or did they just call it quits?

[@davecurrey6758]

Im new to the apache so I'm expecting a steep learning curve but the issues with it as mentioned here a hugely frustrating I'm finding that there's alot of inconsistency with the flight model which is making it impossible to learn it. For example I had a really good practice run with great take off and transitioning I really throught the practice hours I'd put in had paid off but then I tried a mission and it was like I'd never flown it before I understand weather is different in maps but still one minute I can land next I can bearly keep it in the air then when struggling with it vrs kicks me in the a Hope it's fixed soon

[@Crunch104]

Ues the Force... trim... Luke!

[@ziljanvega3879]

What I’ve been doing to fix this, because it’s been around since before the FM changes: use right pedal in the first 35% of engine torque. This counters the initial right roll coming up from 18-22% and loads the suspension with enough friction. Then as the torque increases and the chopper starts to yaw in the opposite direction, I switch to left pedal and add in the left cyclic. From here I can go light on the wheels without drift at a 5ft hover. For typical loadouts of around 17.5K lbs the inflection point seems to be in the 30-40% range. You can check by just watching the Trim ball. It starts off moving right and then moves left. I think the issue is to do with the SCAS over compensating power to the tail rotor. It does this in flight as well which is probably why periodic SCAS saturation happens too easily and Force Trim Hold resets are necessary.

[@CasmoTV]

It actually hasn’t been around since the FM change.

[@ziljanvega3879]

@@CasmoTV ​​⁠ ​​⁠ hmmm, you sure it was fixed? right roll in the grass after landing was characteristic of this effect if slight right pedal wasn’t applied after weight was on the wheels. The trim ball swinging right as soon as the torque was reduced enough to land without right pedal to counter it is typically indicative of this kind of event. I’ve tried countering it with cyclic but it doesn’t work because it’s not balanced since the roll is coming from the tail. It can only be balanced with the pedals. Its counter intuitive because you don’t typically think of using right pedal on American choppers to neutralize the controls and center the trim ball, but it works.

[@thomas_ger4098]

Experienced the same issues also when hovering. ForceTrim, Attitude hold and the helicopter starts to drift to the side although it was completely stable before.

[@thomaslamont3237]

Thanks for doing this … thought some of this was just me. I am much happier with the forward flight behaviour now. I also “jump” off the wheels on takeoff to avoid the slidey thing. My other issue is I find it harder to establish a stable hover now … was easier before. It feels like this iteration of the FM is still very much a WIP: getting there but not quite there yet.

[@aaronwhite1786]

I feel like I've had an easier time flying the Apache with the latest update, and haven't run into the random roll overs on takeoff or in flight as much as I was for a short period of time. Now my new headache is that I switched from the full rudder pedals that I rest my feet on, to some pedals that let me rest my heels on the ground so I can hopefully get a little more precise with my rudder work. This morning flying was like a whole new aircraft, and felt so awkward, but I slowly started getting used to it.

[@Adaerion]

I shortened my blades multiple times because I tipped over to the right while taking off and landing. Nice to know it's not just my poor piloting skills.

[@paristo]

You say to have a heavy springs for GF3 with extension. I have 30 cm extension (20+10) with no springs, only the clutch set just so that I can leave stick to any position even at the extreme angle. And for me the trimmer is nothing else than command to autopilot channels to maintain that flight attitude from that joystick position. I have as well a 40 cm long custom collection, with 40 degree travel angle, dampened for an effect. To fly in the VR, Mi-8, UH-1, Mi-24 fly as expected (in limits of sim), they offer the good controllability and agility. But the Apache requires me to use only about 10-15% of the physical range that any other (ex.Gazelle) helo module requires. I have only in the crazy environmental tests with Mi-8 run out of the cyclic range, as having heaviest load on one side only, high wind (9 m/s) for retreating blade, at high temperature and high altitude. I would never fly a real Apache if it is so twitchy, that even looking the cyclic with wrong idea will flip it around, and yet I don't feel it having any power issues when it can so effectively maneuver.

[@ComdrStew]

The Yaw just goes off to one side all by itself sometimes. I don't need yaw trim, since I have a damper with no spring on my TPR pedals. I coordinate my collective with the pedals. Was slowing down into a hover like usual and keeping it straight and all the sudden it will yaw hard to the right or left.

[@BK45AUS]

Hey Casmo, thanks for all the help on the AH64 module, really has helped, what i was wondering is have you put out a pic of your cyclic stick showing which buttons you use for which controls, i have the same stick and have tried a couple options, none work all that great, thought i'd see how you have yours set.

[@bohica76]

solution is fly something else till apache is fixed

[@PhantomMark]

I've given up on the Apache until the flight model finds a happy medium, it is challenging enough without it continually changing so drastically, I still find myself dropping out the sky like a brick for unexplained reasons, despite continually being aware of vortex ring etc, seems more related to lack of torque left available because the tail rotor takes so much of the available ? IDK.....

[@LEAD-DISPENSER]

i did notice when you set it down with GS she slid sideways

[@Mesusir]

Great video. I hope ED is/will see this.

[@skypiratez]

Pffff... having just revisited the apache after a year shelving I have experienced exactly the same (tail rotating, tipping over etc etc). I just thought I suck and watched your "lying" vid. Then I sucked some more.. This vid actually explains what's gong on LoL

[@godseykj]

Dude. Glad you made this. I thought it was because I hadn’t flown in a few days. The other thing that notice my flight path is always going right. Even with zero wind I’m flying sideways. Errr.

[@weles1989]

Casmo said in some video, that this is as it should be - helicopters even with zero wind tend to crab walk a bit :)

[@godseykj]

@Mirek Urbanowicz A bit...I concur. But 30 degrees seems excessive with zero wind. If it slides right on the ground...it will slide right in the air.

[@CasmoTV]

It’s known to crab too much. Not an Apache guy I know who plays DCS who doesn’t say the current crab isn’t excessive.

[@CasmoTV]

And yes I used a double negative.

[@godseykj]

@CasmoTV No you did not.

[@doomsdayfriday9818]

Thanks for the video mate, will use your advice on the trimmer. When I made my video the other day? I had a moment of clarity with it. Didn't know you can hold it down for landing

[@tmting4942]

as you said "somthing is a miss", I think the sim's scripters need just to improve their codes to meet your valuable expertise, and review the tail rotor thrust ratio.. your are the godfather of combat sim rotor-wings man, you teach the whole copter community how to enjoy it.. & as one of them, I sincerely appreciated🫡.

[@CasmoTV]

You give me too much credit but thank you.

[@Devil-mn3dc]

I think this is a bug with the sliding to the right. The Gazelle was doing the same thing. Had to force trim to the left to get a better take off. I hope they correct this to, which I think we all know they will. Good stuff Casmo, always appreciate your expertise and info.

[@mikeck4609]

Man…I was wondering why i have so much trouble tipping right after I touch down at a FARP all of a sudden. Doesn’t ED consult with you (or other AH-64 pilots) on the modification of the flight model? Hope so b/c it seems like an easy fix if you made them aware of it

[@talonfox3956]

The LCT likes to roll over at high power settings as well.

[@Bigalldone]

Thanks man for your input. Im sure they will listen.

[@DAZnBLAST]

Gale force winds blowing her sideways? Probably not!

[@RedTail1-1]

I don't know if you've tried flying it since the July 28th Update, but.... It's unflyable now. Something they changed has made it so that you literally cannot fly, and George can't even fly either. The RPM jumps to high, and low, and high. The torque drops to 0. It's fkn ridiculous. I was having no trouble at all and was actually getting pretty good in it. Then I loaded it up yesterday to try some live fire exercises. As soon as you bring the collective up enough to break friction with the ground it immediately starts sliding backwards, even with full stick forward. It just does not register forward stick at all. Then you bring the collective up enough to to start a taxi takeoff or hover and it starts shooting upwards, then the RPM skyrockets and you continue gaining altitude no matter where you put the collective. It starts gaining speed at an absurd pace and before you know it you're going over 100 knots. You can try to hover but as soon as you are under 30ish knots the thing just loses control and tries spinning despite rudder input. It will try banking left and diving. It's just all uncontrollable. If you try to let George fly it. You tell him to gain altitude and again it skyrockets up, then immediately banks left and loses all altitude. Once I had actually gotten control and was a decent height, so I gave George control to see if maybe he could manage it. Nope. He will spin out of control and bank wildly until eventually he just nose dives straight for the ground. I switched back and forth between the seats during one of those and the Pilot seat was literally spinning around but the CPG seat was straight as was the helicopter. So that was weird too. I recorded 2 videos to show a little of what was happening. I am REALLY glad I didn't actually buy the Apache, and have just been using it in trials... Not sure if KZbin allows links in comments.. but here if you wanna see what I'm talking about. kzbin.info/www/bejne/emqlaq2XqMiBa5I kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpSwfmyue5qtitU If they don't work, you can just find them on my channel.

[@CasmoTV]

Meh. Flew it a couple days ago. Didn’t see much of a change.

[@theshawnmccown]

Government called and said, "You're simulation is too accurate. Break it.". DCS World patch and

[@alexpitts7634]

ITS A SIMULATION!

[@simmingszycho1980]

I really wonder who ED's SME's are on the Apache, and if they are like: Yep, this is perfect, release it!

[@Rex-ii2yz]

Now thats some translating tendency!

[@oliverbergmann6117]

Still happening I guess would have been easier if you showed the control overlay

[@CasmoTV]

Not really. Not sure why this community is overwhelmed with the idea that you HAVE to see my control inputs. Funny how I’ve learned to fly 5 different aircraft in real life and never not once had to watch the other guys control inputs.

[@oliverbergmann6117]

@@CasmoTV this wanst meant as an attack at all my dude it just helps me personally to visualize where your stick is

[@TheGalahad78]

Bad news for me, I was already very bad when taking off, this is going to drive me nuts!

[@koolkatkeldon]

Man I was wondering why I was having such a hard time taking off when before I could get off the ground fairly easily. Not pretty but I'd get there

[@Synoopy2]

I thought it was me just having these issues on takeoff and landing because I only fly about once or twice a week. I think I will stay proficient in startup and fly some and do a little weapons training, but I will generally wait until they fix it.

[@slyderace]

Good to know!! I will stop using this helo until they fix this.

[@CasmoTV]

Well don’t be too hasty. I’m not calling it unflyable. It’s not. Just be warned that there is, IMO, some strong behavior that I don’t think should be there. Others disagree and find it just fine. You might as well.

[@Pteparts69]

send it to maintenance, tail rotor pitch links need to be adjusted

[@CVSiN]

freaking ED fix one thing break 50 others..

[@JohnP.6775]

wellllllllllllll that explains why i hover like absolute shit when trying to take off.

[@griffincheng]

Thanks again! ❤

[@ethanb7388]

this is why i love the hind. flys amazing and is deadly. the apache is to much work to fly

[@ImpendingJoker]

The Hind had a LOT of issues when it came out as well. It's only where it's after years of being WIP.

[@ethanb7388]

@@ImpendingJoker idk man the hind came out right before the apache maybe what 8 months before it?

[@Kevin-sg5xc]

Thought i got worse randomly lol. Good to know I didn't regress. In flight is great at least.

[@jep1103]

She's a little wildcat atm

[@JagdgeschwaderX]

I hate helicopters but love your channel...isn't that ironic

[@CasmoTV]

I hate my channel and tolerate helicopters. 🤷🏻‍♂️ it’s a crazy world.

[@fridain]

"Do you have a track file?"

[@disaster2master]

I feel like the recent update to the Gazelle features similar issues to what you note on the ground in the apache.

[@simontwitchett672]

I dont feel bad now when getting this baby in the air!

[@Halozocker104]

I prefer the old flight model over this one.. hope they fix this sooner rather than later Edit: yeah no i was just to reliant on the hold modes before.. I actually started to fly it manually more and holy crap.. i cant begin to describe how awesome this feels now!

[@willmckay9115]

I really hope ED see this video and ask for YOUR INPUT since you were a Apache Pilot for many years!! ED need to speak to more vets who flew, so they can get it near perfect.

[@CasmoTV]

They have. I was on the team when they made it. But over time as they refine things stuff changes and gets tweaked. It’s a process.

[@skypickle29]

Thank you for your time. Maybe if you showed the controls we could see what DCS thinks you were inputting at the controls. A discrepancy there might explain some of the problems.

[@CasmoTV]

The problem isn’t in the controls. It’s the tail rotor trust being generated.

[@johnnunez9295]

Thanks for the video. I just wanted to ask that you consider turning on the "show controls" overlay for videos like this.

[@CasmoTV]

I cannot. It won’t fit on the screen.

[@lyleparrott9152]

I have noticed that I really don't have to use my pedals or is there something I need to set cause I haven't seen anything

[@RageQvist]

Hahaha! "Get good"! 😅😅👍👍

[@SamCooper373]

Been wanting to ask, your intro to your videos, is that your voice on the VHF?

[@CasmoTV]

No

[@JSRJS]

Casmo, have you notified DCS team about this via the forums or bug reports?

[@williamstapleford3875]

I have noticed the same thing, but I was wondering if you have also paid any attention to the UH-1 flight model. It seems that the tail rotor is basically useless. Seems to have little power and require almost full left twist of the stick or pedal. Sometimes almost putting the Huey in a spin. While she is no Apache I still love flying the Huey and hoping that you could test the UH1 flight model or others could give me input. Maybe it is me but I know before the UH1 had a better or less troublesome flight model. Anyone have any idea or experiencing the same thing.

[@jester2417]

Has the situation changed? I recently bought the Apache (1 week ago) and I find it - not impossible but - really hard and tiring to control, especially when hovering and changing directions while hovering. Wondering if they made any progress with the flight model

[@OzDeaDMeaT]

hope they fix this bug with the take off soon.

[@zaelu]

I think is the same for now?

[@WillTimeAbility]

Are you referring to the last month's FM changes or is there something new coming our way soon that you already had a taste of?

[@CasmoTV]

The most recent change I don’t get early Apache stuff.

[@vJaBoG32Laud]

@@CasmoTV which is kinda strange... Did they never ask or did you turn a request down?

[@Juic3b0x631]

4:03 Sometimes i forget to release the parking braking brake and end up in the same situation. I can't tell if Casmo had his released or set, but ive had better luck when my parking brake is released on touchdown.

[@hob5052]

Why should parking brake be engaged before touchdown? That sounds odd and I have never done this or even thought about this.

[@Juic3b0x631]

@@hob5052 The only time you should set the parking brake before landing is if you are doing a slope landing, to prevent the aircraft from rolling down the hill. The parking brake should be released prior to takeoff and verified released (handle in) during pre-landing checks. But I get in such a rush sometimes to get off the ground that I don’t realize my mistake until landing and getting that rolling motion.

[@poochies0316]

Great todays patch caused this ? Gonna try the gazelles new FM and hang up Apache for a bit

[@ArchOfficial]

Helicopter modeling is quite problematic. To my knowledge the only way to achieve a good model is to have comprehensive data of steady state, then correlate every steady state instance via the typically dozens/hundreds? of luts. Then you need to also deal with transients which is the main reason helicopters (and aircraft in general) rarely feel right in sims even if the steady state is correlated well. This should take quite literally a year or two with a realistic amount and reliability of data and I'm fairly sure ED doesn't have that to spare. Polychop might for the Kiowa, as probably do professional-grade model developers for the more serious models.

[@gwalker3092]

The sliding is wrong and very dangerous in RL. I know it’s a game but that’s just wrong. Let’s hope they sort it out. Thx for video

[@mrwjs]

Was this in the MT version?

[@R3DP1LL808]

The "T" bar when WASing rockets is no longer showing up in the pilots hud. Anybody with same problem?

[@Yamdarnocnivek]

Have any of you had an issue since the last update where single player works fine but in multiplayer the gunner just scans in circles and if you have a human fill the slot they cant control the TADS and it keeps going in circles?

[@Red-Magic]

George has LST on by default. ED wanted to fix it iirc, but then human jumps in he needs to turn it off

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

0:19 I'm a little worried if a SME like you hopes the changes are just temporary. 2:29 It was in fact possible before to take out the force trim. BUt it required an FFB stick. Pretty much worked like that on all helos. If they now added a way to do that with non-FFB sticks, it's just good. But IIRC the SASes wouldn't go out, just the commands to hold a specific attitude. 4:00 dafuq? 5:22 That looks very bogus to me... reminds me of how MSFS2020 does it, you need like 80+% stick movement to keep the thing in place, but then it almost topples over to the other side and it's a weird tightrope dance with an egg on spoon in the mouth and someone constantly swinging the tightrope around while you're on it trying to prevent the thing from shifting into one direction or toppling over instantly to the other. 6:43 I hope it won't stay like that... it's even painful to just watch you struggle with it. My 2¢: I guess that's what the Open Bayduh is there for.

[@nazradu]

Have not been flying helos in DCS for like two months, but they all feel wrong to me in the current build

[@ratsac]

Mi-8 still the best helo flight model in DCS. Once you get the muscle memory it really rewards you. Very rewarding to hover almost hands off in a properly trimmed machine.

[@CasmoTV]

Absolutely disagree with every fiber of my helicopter pilot being.

[@ratsac]

@@CasmoTV 😂. How do you feel about the Huey? (Serious question)

[@P-Likan]

@@CasmoTV Which helo has the most accurate flight model in your opinion? I am just curious since you have a lot of experience, not being ironic. You may not have flown these specific helos in real life but as a former helicopter and Apache pilot your opinion is very valuable and interesting.

[@CasmoTV]

@@ratsac Huey is better than it was

[@CasmoTV]

@@P-Likan I like the Apache (except for this ground issue) and the shark. Hind was also good. They had weight and inertia

[@DCSHacks]

Just flown it for the first time in ages and Its a mess!

[@RKW1138]

Sure it's not a force trim bug where it starts off with right cyclic bias?

[@CasmoTV]

Did you watch the video?

[@RKW1138]

@@CasmoTV Yes.

[@badgermilk760]

what is going on with ED??