New Chaos Space Marines Win a Grand Tournament - Five Strong Army Lists!

Let's take a look through some of the most powerful chaos lists around...
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0:00 Intro
1:45 Renegade Raiders List 1
6:12 Legionaries, Chosen + Characters
8:11 Pactbound Zealots Army List
11:24 Warp Talons, Predators + Accursed Cultists
13:48 Renegade Raiders List 2
14:48 Vindicators + Havocs
15:39 Soulforged Warpack
19:04 Venomcrawlers + Forgefiend
20:13 Renegade Raiders List 3
22:14 Cultists
23:00 Outro

[@auspextactics]

Looks like those Dread Talons boxes have gone a bit quicker than I expected from Element Games in the UK, just five left currently - elementgames.co.uk/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/chaos-space-marines/chaos-space-marines-battleforce-dread-talons?d=10426 As always, thanks to all supporting via the affiliate links!

[@reillyclements1673]

Remember Abaddon can't lead Legionaries anymore

[@auspextactics]

Ah that's a good point. Guess he's likely with the chosen then unless he's doing weird things with running solo as some people seem to like to!

[@quercusalba6833]

@@auspextacticssticking him solo behind a ruin, with some firepower units nearby to benefit from rerolls is a tactic I’ve had decent success with. He acts as a great countercharge unit if you are pushed in your deployment zone, or can move up with your firepower if you are pushing your opponent back to theirs.

[@paul80085]

​@@auspextacticsChosen are godly with Abby. 3W bodyguards that grant Ld reroll from their icon and built in advance and charge for the big guy.

[@tokunator1442]

He will go with the Chosen and the Master that gives them all Scout.

[@Xynth25]

​@@auspextacticsHe's running Abbadon + MoE with 6" Scout relic + 10 Chosen. It's a roughly 600pt brick but you kind of threat overload by deathballing everything up in the Warmaster's aura.

[@chrisbingley]

It's cool seeing some actual variety in the lists.

[@stu_gibson]

Raiders is so good. I've only played on game with it with my Night Lords (against Grey Knights) and everything revolving around hurting enemy units on objectives while you zip around the board is extremely effective for primary/secondary scoring. Also, Warp Talons are absolute murderers.

[@thanksskeletor4812]

Pretty Waac, I probably wouldn't play somebody bringing this detachment.

[@reillyclements1673]

​@@thanksskeletor4812wdym what's wrong with it.

[@stu_gibson]

@@thanksskeletor4812 Its a really good detachment, but honestly there are arguably better ones, like Thousand Sons, Ork Bully Boys and Grey Knights. CSM just happen to have lots of units that work well with it.

[@synergy8879]

love seeing warp talons in play, watched some poor bastards intercessors get pinned between warp talons and possessed 😂

[@JimH.]

So moral of the story is take tons of vehicles, win.

[@theStamax]

'Today in 10th edition news..' 😂

[@seriousmike5649]

Thats the boring 10th in a nutshell

[@LordOfD3stro]

That seems to be the case when they toned down some of the lethality (this is just based on what I have seen some content creators say about that played 9th edition). As someone who got into the hobby in 10th, the main issue I saw was the lack of available vehicles I could buy since before the CSM codex release, things like predators and vindicators and even rhinos at some points were sold out a day after stock came in. Now it seems like the stock is some what stable, I think, at least for CSM, we should be seeing more vehicles in lists, which I am happy about

[@stripeybag6977]

No duh, they didn't buff the Strength of AT weapons so tanky units have almost no threats.

[@theStamax]

@@stripeybag6977 ? That only really applies to a hand full of weapons (mainly melta and arguably grenade/rocket launchers).

[@ElGrompho666]

Ah man, I hope I get a game in with my 10 Warp Talons in before the guys bringing 20-30 cause them to get nerfed into oblivion :/

[@JimH.]

Schedule that game quickly.

[@ElGrompho666]

@@JimH. Haha, I first have finish painting them :P. Honestly, I hope they just leave them at their current price and make the uppy downy thing once per battle. I think that might fix the issues those guys certainly will cause over the next 2 months or so.

[@runeh3022]

The GW way when it comes to CSM... They do have some counterplay though, in both overwatch and the use of heroic intervention, so I hope their point-cost don't go up by much at least.

[@runeh3022]

@@ElGrompho666 once per game would be fine I think. at least compared to increasing their point-cost.

[@TheAveimperator47]

Being able to just hop all over the board eating any unit they like is overpowered, but I would hope they just reduce it to once per battle. They’re strong, but it’s the unlimited uses making them ridiculous.

[@kevinstanley2433]

I was at the PNW Warlords clash, Chris Tremble is an amazing player! CSM did really well across the board there for the most part

[@BurnByMoonlight]

Wow, who would’ve thought after reading their codex that CSM would be strong? Now can GW go back and rewrite each imperium codex and Tyranids and bring them up to this standard of being fun, flavourful, and good?

[@alpharius3661]

Nah, this is the best we’re getting. Orks will probably be second or third best, and maybe another one will do something good, but like I’ve said from the start, the edition is fundamentally flawed, and most codex’s will be shit

[@NeloBladeOfRanni]

No keep imperium armies trash

[@william9557]

​@@NeloBladeOfRanni why?? It benefits nothing What a trash opinion, go hop in a bin with your opinion where you both belong. You reek of salt

[@Zach-xf5my]

I’m convinced they’re different authors for codex’s

[@fmalch1209]

@@Zach-xf5my There's NO WAY that there aren't at least multiple writer's groups. Pretty obvious which team has been given the imperium codexes. Glad I just play everything chaos...

[@ManamindEU]

nice vid thx for the coverage. When or how do we know who won the Prices for Juni`?

[@chaosclg]

09:00 just to correct you if you fail a dark pact you do in fact still get the bonus, the same applies to contracts in the soulforged detachment

[@jdogg91798]

You don’t get the 5+ though, if you read the wording it says if you succeed on the test you get the “associated ability”

[@chaosclg]

@@jdogg91798 yep correct mate i should have written a little more detail into that haha. The pact first means we can die before we do damage now, big difference!

[@WontonDestruction]

Ah shit, please don't tell me my boys are going to cop more nerfs in the near future 😬

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Prooobably just raiders? It's head and shoulders above most of the detachments, and could use some mild nerfs. It's not the units necessarily.

[@runeh3022]

@@johnj.spurgin7037 it's a bit too early to tell though, as people will also adjust to CSM given a bit of time. Raiders can be pretty easily adjusted to make one of their key battle tactics stratagems into something else I think. They have 3 battle-tactics, while Veterans of the Long War only have 2 for example.

[@boh5157]

Where do i get tournament results like auspex? Best coast pairings stopped showing me any lists since im not subbed, any ideas?

[@joti160]

Goonhammer has a stats website with tournament wins and lists

[@azarel9288]

Hmm, I was looking at the soulforge pack list from Matt Robertson. When I did it in the app, I got a total of 1865 pts. I think their is a unit missing. May be a 3rd Predator ?

[@thetruebonds]

I have what may be a stupid question. For chaos lords and shield captains, you always say that their 0cp stratagems can only be battle tactics but the datasheets don't specify that. They just say stratagem.

[@TheCommunistColin]

Battle Tactic restriction is in the Balance Dataslate, which all competitive 40k games use

[@thetruebonds]

@@TheCommunistColin thank you!

[@WontonDestruction]

Not a stupid question at all bro!

[@Cypher10110]

It's in the balance dataslate pdf, but also in the app under rules commentary "modifying a stratagem's cp cost"

[@Majere613]

I've been saying for a long time that this change needs to be actually on the unit dataslates, rather than tucked away in the commentaries. The theory seems to be that it's some sort of 'temporary' fix, but it's been around for some time and shows no sign of going anywhere. It also applies to abilities like the Callidus and Cypher who make Stratagems cost more CP- because they don't specify a type it only works on Battle Tactics.

[@boredmagala5701]

If a chaos lord takes both a hammer and a fist they can only attack with one right? You’d need extra attacks for the other. Am I correct or am I missing something

[@mrdrprofsteve4455]

That’s right

[@GCarssow]

You're correct, you can only attack with one weapon in melee (unless one of their weapons has the "Extra Attacks" trait).

[@0AbsolutZero0]

Basically you're choosing between Dev Wounds or hitting on 2s

[@boredmagala5701]

@@0AbsolutZero0 ooooohh I missed that

[@jacobdominguez916]

Where tf do you get legionnaire lascannons? Is that in the kill team box?

[@TheCommunistColin]

Havocs kit. Their parts are interchangeable with Legionaries

[@Internetbutthurt]

Gotta buy havocs. Its a mockery of GWs rule of playing with everything supplied in a units box....unless they can make money

[@Aaron-wv5si]

Lascannons are all over the game. Take one from basically anywhere and model it on to a legionary.

[@behemoth9543]

Either buying them specifically as single kits to use instead of the normal options, I use the Kromlech ones for example, or just sticking the lascannon barrel on the front of an autocannon or rocket launcher body.

[@marechal_joukov2375]

Warp talons will go uo to 130 and that it like Inceptor

[@CrazyMongol123]

140 already

[@CoryAnthony-vy4fl]

I run Fabius Bile, Warp Talons, Raptors, Chosen or Legionaries (as body guards for Bile) Bikers and Possessed. Along with 2 Daemon Princes, 1 Venom crawler and 1 forgefiend or maulerfiend depending on what my OP is playing. Basically all my units get into combat very very quickly. Ill also run some Noise Marines incase i need that little bit of range combat when im using that army. My OP ends up worrying about everything thats rushing into combat that my Noise Marines. And they can do some work. Especially sense their sonic blasters have a 24 inch range and the ones with blastmasters have a 36 or 48 inch range. Id love to have the Talon Lord in the new box. But i already have more than enough of whats in that box it dosnt justify me basically buying that box for the Talon Lord. Anyone have a Talon Lord they havent put together they want to sell or trade for something? I dont just have chaos i also have a lot of space marines too. All put together but unpainted. Havent figured out what they are going to be yet. Was thinking salamanders.

[@marcelozjasz721]

Is it legal when codex is not released?

[@GCarssow]

Quad Chaincannons on a Havoc Squad is nuts. That's 32 attacks, hitting on a 3+ if they didn't move this turn. Combine that with Dark Pacts and Sustained Hits and you can easily get 30+ hits on a unit. Edit: I forgot that they aren't Heavy for Havocs, so they can still move and get BS 3+.

[@timothybradshaw3896]

they hit in 3s regardless of if they move or not

[@jeremiegartner464]

I like using havic autos. 12 shots way more consistent dmg.

[@GCarssow]

​@@timothybradshaw3896 You're right! I forgot they're only considered Heavy for Legionaries.

[@benn1181]

Chaincannons are nice if you are RR and have the -1ap. At normal 0AP I find they bounce off most targets

[@guysolomon7904]

​@@GCarssowheavy doesn't give you -1 to hit anymore like 9th, it's only +1 to hit if you remain stationary

[@Baatosanabe]

I am confused about legionnaires bringing 2 heavy melee weapons. I thought each unit could only bring 1.

[@jamesmatthews5903]

They can, one on a normal legionary and one on the sergeant for a total of 2 per squad

[@Baatosanabe]

@@jamesmatthews5903 holy crap, time to rip the arms of my legionnaires.

[@jaykallon7909]

In a 5 man squad you can have a total of two heavy weapons, two chain swords, and lascanon

[@40k_smee4]

Anyone looking for a tournament list, run raiders with these key units, master of execution, 3man bikes with melta, legionaries, rhinos, and warp talons, anything else you want is also good but just include thise units and youll have a strong list

[@wyatttyson7737]

I'm sorry, did you say that Matt Robertson's Soulforged Hunting Pack drew to *Cavalry Heavy Imperial Guard?* I am now infinitely less interested in whatever is going on with CSM and Infinitely more interested with whatever that list looks like.

[@TheMuddleHeadedAnalyst]

I'm sad they haven't done anything for the Harlequins. Every time I log on, i see some new update for literally every other facton, but nothing for my clown bois. :(

[@TheCommunistColin]

Clown bois are just normal Aeldari now, they will likely have their own detachment in the Aeldari codex

[@captaincoolbreeze9429]

@@TheCommunistColin I think that is a given for one of their codex detachments. And probably an aspect warrior focused detachment and a wraith construct detachment.

[@TheMuddleHeadedAnalyst]

@@TheCommunistColin I am now extraordinarilly sad. I wish they could give the funni clowns some love.

[@EdgarClay]

New win Big chaos?

[@The_Penguin_8964]

Huh, kind of expected since the Codex runs out🤦🏻‍♂️

[@jaysunbodaysun3302]

Is there a cash prize if you win one of the big GW tournies?

[@reillyclements1673]

Not typically.

[@oliverp3545]

I'm pretty curious about the first list because how on earth did they score alot of secondaries on it with so few units suited for the role? Venomcrawlers seem really inefficient, Rhinos I can see after they drop off their transport, but really what else does that role well?

[@fluiypj]

6 scoring units, the rhinos are excellent, the 2x5 legionnaires, the 2 venomcrawlers, venomcrawlers are fast and have long range guns and are only 110 points, theyre fantastic

[@oliverp3545]

@@fluiypj maybe it's a local thing but with the Venomcrawler that type of unit just dies too fast to be seen as reliable.

[@poetrollem326]

You do get a bunch of opportunities to pick up your warp talons so they can ostensibly also pull secondary duty

[@fluiypj]

@@oliverp3545 they’re not durable, but at 110 points they’re cheap, and they’re small enough to hide behind most terrain without issue

[@prime8718]

wait.. 4 of 5 games was Orks? xD wtf....

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

I like the first list, it’s super similar to a list I started building in 9th who are languishing in a box. Roughly the same infantry, plus a squad of termies and havocs, 1 venomcrawler, and two Forgefiends. Plus they all have Sisters bare heads 😂😂

[@OnyxANZ]

I know I'm new to the hobby and haven't played a single game but.. I was questioning the warp talon buffs the moment they got revealed and tbh, I still am. They seem like an overbearing list-defining unit that drastically reduces variety.

[@JimH.]

I would normally ask if you're new, but since you said you are, this is standard GW: make a few units OP (intentionally or not), then watch as they're trash in 11th after you bought 5 boxes of them.

[@Fargrath]

@@JimH. GW improved. You don't need to wait until 11th to see them become trash. Just a few months to the next dataslate.

[@cobraxist]

​@Fargrath Wait, what is the point of owning a physical copy of the codex if they just change the rules every few weeks?

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

Mild shock the op codex wins big? 😅

[@arbitrary_mike7833]

Must be nice getting a well-written codex with lots of viable detachment options. Happy for everyone who doesn’t get an absolutely awful set of rules to enjoy this edition. Maybe 11th will be kind to my Shelfstodes.

[@anthonyugarte1072]

Custodes got an update, some of them grew boobs and vaginas that were always there, didn't you hear?

[@kodiak7463]

Custodes players really never shut up

[@user-kt6og7vf9e]

bruv Shield Host is honestly amazing

[@arbitrary_mike7833]

@@user-kt6og7vf9e knock off waaaagh being carried by Forge World, Canis Rex, Calldius, and Draxus. Pretty telling when success for the codex relies on brining 2/3 of your list that doesn’t benefit from the army and detachment rules.

[@arbitrary_mike7833]

@@kodiak7463bless your heart. I’m glad you’re able to express your feelings about people having opinions on the internet. I hope that someday you’ll be able to stop the articulated thoughts of random strangers from bothering* you. Until then, stay strong.

[@Lomhow]

I feel very validated running 10x man blobs of Warptalons for so long. I was running them in 9th. But Chaos Lords were so different then...

[@bloodfest8510]

soulforged warpack has been immensely rewarding for me, every game ive played i just turn 1 table any big thing/things i want gone, and turn 2 its just a clean up, VP wise, good luck getting your battleline onto a point for 2 turns with a maulerfiend wailing on them and healing when damaged with feel no pain.

[@JimH.]

Good luck not getting that nerfed in the next few months.

[@bloodfest8510]

@@JimH. goodluck removing warpsmiths from the codex lol. Not my fault we got +1 to wounds built into a detachment 🤣

[@bloodfest8510]

@@JimH. in all seriousness tho, hopefully they're too hyperfocussed on raiders to even bother with us

[@PandaCool1]

UPDATE: Well they are sitting at 47% and in my local league for 54 players, I’m the only one with CSM army. Keep nerfing them GW it’s all good.

[@TheVideoGuy223]

Abaddon can no longer lead legionaries

[@Fallstorm777]

With Abaddon's new stats being weak as they are he shouldn't be leading anything.

[@TheVideoGuy223]

@@Fallstorm777 Abaddon's stats are near identical. His command points generation was nerfed, but losing the chaos marks isn't an issue if you don't use pactbound zealots. Other than that he's the exact same

[@Fallstorm777]

@@TheVideoGuy223 Abaddon is about 5 pts cheaper than golden boy but can't not in 10E take on any Primarch. Given that there is no way Abaddon should have achieved the things he has done lore wise such as have Daemon Primarchs yield to him, obtain the artefacts he currently wields, etc. If a Daemon Prince charges Abaddon there is a decent chance Abaddon dies. There is no way this person would be the Warmaster of Chaos and the Anti-Bobby G who would wipe the floor with Abby in his 10E incarnation. To be clear, this is not hatred of Abaddon given his back lore and you are correct he only lost all the marks of the Chaos gods (you know the entities who are all currying for his favor but who give him absolutely Zero blessings 🙄); rather I am saying by his 10E stats in general nothing he has accomplished is feasible especially for him being The main protagonist of 40K lore. I mean a get Golden Boy fans were having therapy issues because 9E made him able to stand up to Bobby G, but right now you have the GW writers have made the equivalent of Batman vs. Superman only this Batman (Abaddon) is only slightly better than his peers (Chaos terminator lords) and has zero kryptonite.

[@ca11rl77]

I'm swapping. Loyalist marines have done me nothing but cause misery

[@BurnByMoonlight]

Heretic.

[@diegom6217]

Welcome to the cause

[@alexandermccabe429]

Hydra Dominatus Brother, why not play both sides?

[@niccogiova6728]

Iron within, iron without brother

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...

[@JM-sp2iu]

Inc nerfs.....

[@pauldavies7720]

Every fortnight a new codex. Every fortnight a new top army.

[@pixywings7715]

CSM had a 47% weekend win rate, Custdoes finally got their win rate up to 45% since codex launch.

[@suleimansufianov5702]

It's not just strong, you will see. Access to sustain and lethal is still too easy

[@PandaCool1]

As always CSM PRO players will take the Codex on another level and GW will nerf the shit out of that army ruining experience for a casual player. Next balance update they will be at 45% winrate - mark my words.

[@Majere613]

I'm certainly feeling that. It's going to be a couple of months before I get to play again with any reliability, which gives GW plenty of time to nerf my Orks and CSM into the floor.

[@Cade467]

Preach

[@ThereItis99]

This is the normal cycle of the CSM fraction. 3 months shine 9 months suffer.

[@thefinne6737]

I dont get legionares they kinda suck just take chosen and havocs instead

[@AdeptusTacticus]

OC and the re rolls they get for 80 pts tf you talking about they are amazing lmao

[@fmalch1209]

Thank you for existing. People like you keep our winrate in check.

[@wayoflifefitness5622]

2 power fists, a lascannon, re rolling all wounds or all hits and wounds with the master of execution….. for 80 points - they are crazy good

[@thefinne6737]

@@wayoflifefitness5622 Valid point I might have to try them with that. I still think havocs are better since you can shoot in melee with iron warriors. And are cheaper on their own without the master of execution. I'll test it out in my next game

[@jordno]

had 5 legionnaires melee based with a chaos lord, managed to wipe out a whole custodes terminator unit. Far from suck

[@MelniaShadow]

Note that even at 10 man unit, Legionaire can only take 1 HMW.

[@reillyclements1673]

No there's two, 1 is on the champion

[@oliverp3545]

Aspiring Champion can take 1 and so can 1 regular Legionaire.

[@MelniaShadow]

​@@oliverp3545ah right the Champion my bad.

[@danjones3012]

All i gotta say is GW better nerf the op stuff they are releasing. As a necron main, it is really stupid the amount of nerfs (not even talking about the ctan nerfs) necrons got while pretty much every other index got big buffs and points drops aswell.

[@connorleaf1561]

I’ve played against Necrons multiple times and I feel like you guys got a light hand. Perhaps I’m wrong but your C’tan were the best duelists in the game, had incredible durability, and costed less than knights. It was insane. Your lokhust heavies were insane. The canoptek wraiths don’t seem to have a 4 wound counter since they got an extra, and with reanimation protocols and a FNP with their Technomancer. They could hold the middle of the board for an incredible amount of time while you scored points, and shot at any threat that concerned your front lines. Perhaps I am wrong.

[@danjones3012]

@@connorleaf1561 ctans needed the codex buff to basically be able to survive until they could connect with an enemy unit but lost 2" of movement to get a 5+ fnp and lost the 3 max wounds taken per phase for a half all incoming damage. With a 4+/4++ save profile it's alot easier to kill than everyone was saying, just not with meta units; leading to massive points increases. Canoptek wraith spam is a problem yes and it needed to get tuned down but it's just the lychguard problem all over again. Points increases to the crypteks were over bloated, as their stat lines arent good so it's a price for a buff. Warriors are too expensive, and immortals didnt need to go up but they did too. Reanimation got a huge nerf across the board, and that being the whole reason necrons have literally half or less the amount of wounds as other similarly costed units, less movement, and higher points costs, turning necrons into an army with elite point costs and horde army stat lines.

[@AdeptusTacticus]

Naw necrons are fuckin wack to play against

[@danjones3012]

@@JimH. lol what a ridiculous response. Imma make it real clear, just for you bubba. You Cannot Expect META Lists To Defeat Everything, Especially Necrons Because Necrons Are Counter Meta And Takes Some Actual Intellect To Defeat A Good Necron Pilot. Clear enough for your slow bubba self?

[@user-hv6gi9ux6z]

​@danjones3012 I'm just going to hard disagree, the ctan can't easily be dealt with espically if you bring more than 1, and the rest of lethal weapons can go into the few units that can threaten the ctan