Should you take BIG or SMALL Squads in Warhammer 40K - List Building Tactics

[@auspextactics]

SMALL CORRECTION: They did patch cull the horde in the tournament companion document. This video was recorded before that came out

[@landerbennewith6169]

Wow, what's the lead time on these videos?

[@JuneauEu]

Was just about to type this, I was thinking I was watching an older video then. Ha. Damn fast rule fixes. So unlike GW.

[@Agent_doofus34]

As a guard player, I see this video as an absolute win

[@Crash_Test_UK]

Squads of 30 down to 10, so that means 120 daemonettes will forever gather dust. Poor girls! 😢

[@ilo3456]

Just think of it as neglect play I am sure the girls would be into it

[@TheDarkplace]

Till GW change the meta again

[@josephspeak6366]

Can always play some Hedonites in AOS I guess

[@Evil0tto]

The rest will keep themselves occupied.

[@rictusnithor5602]

That's rough, buddy.

[@Hachaverde]

I play Green tide, I don't understand the question.

[@deekin2134]

As a die-hard Black Templar player I say large units all the way! Black tide!

[@shadowplotter]

yeah, i had Grim leading a 20 man unit of PCS with 4 flamers and 15 chainswords + bolt pistols and heavy bolt pistols fighting a friend of mine playing Iron Warriors, chaos forgefiend with 3 ectoplasm cannons. . . . D3 attacks and blast per weapon and they can have 3 of them, blast alone meant that they got hit with 16 shots with dark pact with nurgle for sustained hits S10 crits on 5 AP3 D3. i was left with 3 PCS's and grimaldus +servitors after the 5 up feel no pains, now i dont do big blob units :P however i will say running this ones been fun 6 x 10 PCS 7 chainswords 2 pyreblaster 1 pyre pistol -1 lead by an Lieutenant with shield/power sword 5 x 5 Man Old Crusade Squad 3 x 5 man PSB -lead by a judiciar each for spicy spicy strike first you get 5, 10 man bricks that can scout 6, everything moves through buildings, rerolls on advance and charge on 11 units, precision on the judiciars and fights first for the unit. and ruins? oh those things you just walk straight up the board through? and the 5 man PCS can shoot with a Lascannon and a Plasma cannon, they can be used as an action monkey if required sheer volume of chainswords with sustained hits on que on top of army wide 6 FNP can be pretty annoying, cant shoot units hiding behind ruins that can leap out at maul you and charging from inside a ruin means no overwatch

[@Whoknows21356]

@@shadowplotterthat’s to much to read so I’ll say just “sounds good bro”

[@Hyunckel101]

​@@Whoknows21356 I've read longer comments but I agree with you, I really don't know what makes this one so tedious to read, I haven't finished it.

[@calvincurtis4210]

22 MAN CRUSADER SQUADS WILL NEVER DIE! WE ARE THE HEIRS OF SIGISMUND!

[@andydogdad4349]

Them 20 man primaris crusader squads with character support can take down literally anything.... I once took down a knight in 1 turn of melee!

[@GCarssow]

Another advantage of running CSM Legionaries (or any CSM unit really) as max squad size is that it lessens your risk when using Dark Pacts. If you run two 5 man squads and you want to use Dark Pacts, that's two separate leadership tests for 1d3 potential mortal wounds each. If you have a ten man squad, you only have to test once and the whole big squad gets the benefit for half the risk.

[@Aaron-wv5si]

I think that is a good idea to be aware of but, in practice, both Legos and chosen have icons for the reroll. The very minor protection from dark Pacts is far outweighed by the benefits of small squads.

[@Lomhow]

​@@Aaron-wv5si Could you explain what you mean? I run 5 and 10 man squads with icons but don't understand what you are saying.

[@GCarssow]

​@@LomhowNot OP, but what they're basically saying is that with the Chaos Icon that lets you re-roll the Leadership test for Dark Pacts, the chances of you failing the test are very slim (I think it's only like 8%).

[@djc1376]

Just put both squads in a rhino and dark pact the rhino and then both squads can fire there singel heavy wepon from its fire points as its got 2 one for each squad

[@jordno]

With chaos icons it doesnt matter so much, as well with legionnaires you get better wargear options for a 5 man than a 10 in regards to melee

[@scp_redacted989]

I've only played 40k for 2-3 months, one match per week, but as a Necrons player I run maximum sizes so they're more likely to get the opportunity to trigger reanimation protocols.

[@swinegods]

More squads means more reanimation protocols You should, however, run max sized squads when they have a leader, preferably 2

[@xavierdruid]

I was checking the comments to make sure someone said it. Although, more squads more reanimatuon is a good point

[@jcklsldr]

I came here to say this, and with the necrons being so leader focused, it helps save points on doubling leader costs. I had a max sized scarab swarm and even with detonating it, they regenerated well enough with extra help to keep them alive for a lot longer than I expected

[@Duggerjuggernaut]

Yeah its a strange one for necrons. More squads only gives you "more" reanimations if your opponent decides to give them to you. If i split my 2 20 man blobs into 4 10 man squads, you're not going to suddenly split your fire between the four squads (unless you have a really good reason to). that's just giving value to the crons for free!! by that moniker alone it feels like RP doesnt affect the other arguments for squad size. HOWEVER yeah if you are *relying* on RP for your strategy, max the squads!!

[@williamsederberg1752]

I love big units I think they look more interesting than small ones

[@fitocorp718]

And make Big few units more important... Nothing can Best a dreadnought againts 30 termagaunts

[@KneeCapHill]

And coincidentally they also cost more. How about that

[@riven5677]

@@fitocorp718hear me out, heavy flamers

[@williamsederberg1752]

I don't play competitive Warhammer, I like the models for narrative games

[@tryingtodobetterotto9616]

The best reason.

[@JackDespero]

My rule of thumb: Big squads when I have an important character to lead them or I am going to spend CP on it, small squad otherwise. Not only you gain more map control, but you also have two squad leaders, who usually are better. In fact, the only other time I usually consider a large size squad is when the squad leader is in fact worse.

[@william9557]

This 100% Min sized squads means more board control capability, reduction in overkill/wasted fire, can tie up more things in melee Big squads get a character. I ain't spending 80 points on a captain to go into a 5 man team Exception is the phobos librarian for the eliminators because they don't have native lone operative sadly.

[@mr_geekchic2899]

Chaos Daemons being units of 10 max, makes no sense when it use to go up to 30 models

[@artemisquinn]

They did patch out the cull the horde work around in the tournament companion.

[@khaaneph7311]

Yep. Its bases off of the points bracket you paid for instead of real time model count.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

Typical GW - popping out rules without proper playtesting or consideration of how that rule would be played out on the table. Hard to blame people for getting rules wrong with as often as they change or are corrected.

[@XHobbiesPrime]

For Gravis Marines like Aggressors, Eradicators and Inceptors I think max squads are the way to go. 3 Gravis units are not that hard to kill.

[@ca11rl77]

No they aren't. Most armies have access to lethal/dev wounds.

[@SteveForteGMR]

Aggressors, yes. 6 Eradicators and character in a Repulsor, otherwise I'd say small units to potentially spread your options. Inceptors can go either way. Small squads still put out loads of shots and are easier to find deep strike spots for. Large squad makes it a little easier to screen out.

[@danielpledger7445]

True for BGVs too. 3 are easy to kill, 6 properly buffed can actually be a bit of a road block. Eg tiggy giving -1 to being hit.

[@nordicbull0414]

I have a captain, the biologis, and 6 aggressors, sometimes I find it funny to have 2 groups of 4, but a group of 8 with 2 enhancements is nice.

[@zlboyle90]

Honor vehement on the captain and fire discipline on the biologis with 6 aggressors is a nasty unit to deal with.

[@Strike62151]

Was literally just talking about this just today! Cant wait to watch, I am on team big unit before watching!

[@icarusjumped2719]

Same. Theres just something about a unit being at full strength that I cannot get away from. Even in my marines, I rarely use the combat squad option (if that is even still a thing, I am still playing on 9th lol) it just doesnt feel right.

[@resmues]

As a Deathwatch player, it absolutely sucks that I essentially am forced to play full 10 man squads of all the killteams so that I actually get the models I pay for in points.

[@erickt8184]

The initial cost of the proteus kill team is ridiculous. We cant really field a squad of 5 devastators without going the full 10 and we get stuck paying for extra stuff. Game is rigged to hate deathwatch at this point.

[@matthewcheeseman6453]

I usually run Grey Knight strike squads as 5 man units like most people, but I will also be running a 10 man squad and a Champion in my next game and I am excited for that!

[@88atahualpa]

The anti-horde mission was fixed, now with a unit of gaunts or wathever if you pay the difference in point it does count for that mission, it doesn't matter if you have 11, 19 or 20, the important thing is what you pay for (and serves you right to try and cheat khorne it's due)

[@ninjapirate47]

It's?

[@kennymartin5976]

So as a noob who hasn't played yet, my take aways are: - Shooty bois small - Slashy bois big - hordes verry big

[@icklemoo]

I always like to take one big max unit of something as an anchor

[@bkreutze3709]

10 assault intercessors with a captain and sanguinary priest popping out of a landraider are Op. especially in SOS detachment

[@theta1672]

As a Necron player who like Awakened Dynasty, using big units can be advantageous as you otherwise need a lot of points for characters.

[@mattyorshin]

I run 40 hormagaunts. 4 units of ten. I split them so they can do objectives and also help support my main attackers. Plus when one moves and some one decides to waste overwatch on them, only 10 will die

[@rictusnithor5602]

I was thinking of doing that for the vanguard detachment. For unending swarm, I think max squads would be better to increase the chance of surviving shooting to make a surge move, as well as get the most out of the strat to bring them back (now more than ever since it's one use only: got to make it count).

[@mattyorshin]

@@rictusnithor5602 owe ya in unending swarm a 120 gaunts at minimum lol

[@TideUltra13-ex3xl]

As a rule of thumb, I like to bring a big squad when they are led by a buffing character and a small squad when they are led by a killy character or aren't led. Big units are also acceptable if you plan on using a specific stratagem on them.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

20-man Chaos Legionaries again please! And 4 -or 6...- Obliterators! And a 5-to-10 unit size, with individual points. I don't need two 10-model blobs of Possessed or Chosen. 7 or 8 is usually plenty. And those points are better used elsewhere, like on another character or (historically) vehicle upgrades.

[@stuartfryd6672]

I normally take 20 Legionaries but in squads of 5 because then I can take 4 baleflamers and 4 heavy melee weapons. What do you think would be the advantage for a 20 man squad? Serious question, I'm not trying to be a d**k.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

It isn't about taking _20_ Legionaries. It's about taking 20 in a squad. In older rules, back when they had a single wound each and your chaff was daemons units only (cultists didn't become a formal thing until later). And because you can take 6 units of them, you could do a lot more with the bodies. Plus they took a "Troops" unit slot, which you only got 6 of. If you took 4 units of 5, you'd be heavily restricted in any other units you wanted to take that were also "Troops". But now the units are stronger, so it's less necessary. But as I said, the flexibility is what makes the game. 7 Legionaries should beat 5 Intercessors. 15 should beat 10. But also, in a world where 40 Orks can run around in a blob, 20 CSM stood a chance of holding their own.

[@Bumbaclart247]

Grimaldus, retinue and 20 man deep. LFG 🔥

[@johnuke_]

Big squad sizes also give up fewer VP's to enemies for completing their unit kill objectives. It's a big benefit, but I didn't notice it being mentioned

[@C0ldIron]

I’ve been thinking of trying a space marine tac squad spam using their fireteam abilities. Keep half the unit in the back with heavy weapons like las cannons and then send the other half up the board doubled up in rinos with special weapons like melta guns. Also because I play DA it also means that the chance of having something be something failing leadership.

[@icklemoo]

60 Tac marines split be fun

[@Cultist_Mono]

Tzeentch based Chaos Knights for Daemon allies. Daemons have a rule that does so you need 1 battle line unit of Daemons for 1 other unit like Flamers. I run 1 team of Blue Horrors and 1 team of flamers to get a few points up but due to me running flamers is the fact they can be set up to 4-6 in a team without needing more Tzeentch battleine. Kinda wish Flamers had the battle line keyword or they made the Pink horror box not need Blue horrors. Thought it would be a good thing to comment related to big squads. Go for a Khorne or Nurgle house so you won't have to deal with stuff like this if you consider Chaos Knights. Maybe Slaanesh.

[@meffeli]

Ugh yeah I really don't like what they did to the daemon allies :( I was using a squad of flamers and a squad of screamers in my Thousand Sons for fun and fluff, can't do that anymore because we don't play at the points lvls where I can take two units of horrors as well

[@RevanR]

Bear in mind that unlike previous editions where space marines can split the gang (the exception is tactical squad) this time you have to decide from the beginning, so choose wisely

[@Halosecretweapon]

My first batch of warhammer models is mostly a job lot of tactical marines. So been showing up with 5 tactical squads as my army core at the lgs. Fun times.

[@JackDespero]

The difference between melee and range is fundamental indeed. That is why I tend to pick 10 model units of Zephrim but 5 model units of Seraphim. Zephrim need to charge and destroy the target, otherwise they destroyed back very easily. Seraphim are fine just annoying people and flying away before getting shot back.

[@Sirilere]

Good video on a decent topic.

[@JonathanCrane82]

It's a neat trick to use the impulsor with Sisters in order to split the battle squad. But it's also a nice way to crew two vehicles with only one unit.

[@TheSpartan9670]

Personally I've enjoyed 5 Infiltrators with a phobos Librarian for that 12' deep strike denial, lone op and the combined protection profile. Can be a very good back line or useful as a forward screening unit ahead of your shooting

[@markberghel275]

It really depends on what you want to use the unit for. If it's a major damage dealer that you want to buff up with a leader and/or strats, go big or go home. If it's meant to hold a point, score secondaries, or do some other utility thing, just go min size and call it a day. As an Orks player, I have some that do both (Boyz spam for Green Tide, but also a handful of stormboyz to give me a chance of actually winning the game).

[@joegroves2517]

I'm not sure since I haven't gotten to play much but since Necron Warriors aren't such good shooters anymore, their main use might be as a 20-body blob to soak up damage, resurrect, and just clog up an area. Even for Immortals, the larger size seems better in most cases just to be able to be less likely to be shot off the board and be able to regenerate.

[@joeofdoom]

Depends what you intend them to do IMO, you need bricks to do damage and smaller squads are better to steal objectives or do secondaries. A good mix usually makes sense.

[@JackDespero]

By the way, 2:40 , the 19-strong horde units for the Pariah Nexus secondary has already been patched up in last week's patch.

[@daaaah_whoosh]

I've been putting together space marines in batches of six, at first for kill team but now I'm rounding out the units and making custom characters out of extra intercessors. Hoping to get a game soon with them so I can decide which units I like and want more of vs which units should stay at their minimum size.

[@sargeherren]

With Thousand Sons, running 5 man squads of Rubric Marines get you more cabal points.

[@obsidanix]

Surely with Paraiah Nexus you now have to sacrifice a squad to do actions per turn, so taking several small msu overlapping squads is better, no one needs a killy 300+ points unit doing nothing but earning 3vp surely 😂

[@cytorakdemon]

The main deciding factor on if I use half or full sized squads is point values. I don't want a horde army, but I also don't want to feel cheap by flooding the field with heavy or elite units. So I gotta find that balance. Plus I tried not to buy duplicates of units.

[@christopherwithey2122]

The Pariah thing was patched day 1 with the tournament pack. It added a third line to the secondary saying if a player paid the pts to have a squad of 20+ or combined 25+ wounds but intentionally didn't field all the models to treat them as having had all those models for the purpose of the secondary.

[@smalwex]

Having units of 5 is fine you have multiples of those units. Example: played CSM against my mates space marines. He brought desolation marines. Using the deceptors detachment they get the relentless assault strat. So i tied up 200 points of gun, a 5 man unit, with 90 points of raptors. Having multiples of that type of unit means your threat range is bigger and you give your opponent choices

[@Moramany]

I love small units! I love having a presence everywhere on the battlefield!

[@christopherhughes7970]

Marneus Calgar with full complement of blade guard and blade driven deep enhancement in vanguard. Shoving 10 4+ invuln, infiltrate that can advance and charge down the enemies throat as hard as you can.

[@RowanElletson]

for the alg

[@TROLOLOLOLOL818]

My wife said my unit size was just right and to not listen to the mean guys at the gym.

[@tobiaswhaley7030]

Old school player here, 2nd edition vet, have always played smaller and learned decades ago that 2 combat squads of 5 marines was better than the 1 squad of 10.

[@hollyd8989]

This is why i like that plague marines can come in 5, 7 or 10

[@crazyshak4827]

I definitely enjoy playing large units more, especially since they take buffs and characters better. I recognize the utility of having several MSUs, but having big units is just more satisfying. Plus, as a Necrons player, I need big units to maximize the potential chance of Reanimation giving me value. I still maintain ten Assault Intercessors with a Lieutenant is underrated though. You have to be cagey with your approach, but they do a hilarious amount of damage when storming objectives

[@mizter5597]

Custodes is the one im struggling to decide on when it comes to squad sizes. I want the big blob with a captain but that means i have much less board control

[@phillipbritton3836]

I got 140 points for 10 blood claws. It does make for a nice Doom ball when charging

[@vincentseago4118]

I've had huge fun with 10 bloodclaws with Ragnar and a power fist Lieutenant, been less fun for my opponents though 😂

[@phillipbritton3836]

@@vincentseago4118 I'm going to try Krom on with the blood claws to unlock the extra damaging. Then Ragnar with my grey hunters to get the advance and fall back to shot. Then running storm lance to still get that charge after.

[@crayven]

I miss my 20 manblock Chaos Spacemarines

[@cody1570]

Space marines? 5 and just sweep the board if they come across a unit that wipes them then next turn wipe that unit causr they aint in melee no mo. GSC? Units of 20 and swarm the board, tyranids? Max em. Orks? Max em. World eaters? Alls you need are units of 3 and sweep the board. Imperial knights? Max em.....

[@ancientmariner9460]

I always use full squads with an exception of stupidly expensive ones like Phobos or Terminators. I mean, Phobos units are way too overcosted for what they bring to table and to me, they're just for fluff. Terminators are CHAPTER'S ELITE in Tactical Dreadnought armour but just too weak for that, Inv save is easly negated, their firepower is doo-doo and melee is just ok - now, if INV wouldn't be negated by anything and their weapons would hit on 2+ (chainfists 3+) like everyone who isn't regular Battle-Brother, because they are not regular, then they would be nice. Though, from time to time, I do field full unit of Reivers for fluff and because I like them, same for Termies.

[@danfocke]

The biggest factor for me on what size I run a squad at is am I going to be spending CPs on stratagems for this squad or not. If not, I run them small. If yes, I run them big. More bang for the CP buck if you will.

[@colbybastian17]

Primaris Intercessors are another squad that's run almost exclusively in 5s.

[@Majere613]

One of the most obvious units that should always be run minimum size is Noise Marines. Not only does going with two 5-strong units get you an extra Champion with their Doom Siren, but some genius decided that a 10-strong squad should still only get one Blastmaster, so going big does you out of an entire heavy weapon. One of the other downsides of MSU which I think got skipped here is that whilst it helps you score Secondaries, it can also help your opponent do the same. If you've got 10 Marines in two units of 5, one on an Objective and one not, then you've made Overwhelming Force five models easier to score and doubled the amount of points up for grabs for No Prisoners. If you've got both units on the Objective then Overwhelming Force can now score max points. On a similar note, enemy units that get bonuses for killing units, like the Venomcrawler or Morvenn Vahl, really like to see MSU for obvious reasons.

[@aidanfedorochko3728]

I like my taking my legionaries and building them in groups of five. I will say I do feel bad for Death Guard players who get weird numbers and can’t do large blobs. I guess I don’t care much because my army isn’t a horde army (not fully I still use traitor guard).

[@dylancrozier84]

They do get weird numbers, but they also get loads of leftover bits. If you're creative, you can kitbash quite a lot just from the leftovers of a Plague Marine box

[@AKRIT11]

As Black Templar, playing always 20 primaris crusader squad battleline If going with leader - only big squad When goin solo - 2 small squads

[@SoulCrusherEx]

I like to go full squads of 10 marines. It takes time before that squad gets wiped and for horde armies I would always run max unless you want to have a squad in your home field to hold that point. Kinda disappointed that the 40 man blobs are reduced to 20

[@chengyi1015]

larger squad would have better performance by its ability triggered by (below / half of) starting strength, for example foot man death company (+1/+2 sustained hit)

[@ryankyle2467]

I feel like a good mix of both would probably be a better choice?!? But I’m going off of my strategy from a completely different game! And that one is far less complicated and overwhelming as WH is!!! But I also know very little about the actual gameplay still…… since I still haven’t had my first game ever yet!!! But I would have smaller units of my shooters that can shoot the furthest! But then as big as I can go with my units that I plan for them to be face to face in melee combat!?! Does that sound mostly like a good plan?

[@ericjkier]

What about 5 man squads of jump pack Intercessors with Shrike, Captain, or Chaplain? Would any of them warrant using either a 10 or 5 man squad?

[@brandonfranketti2338]

The build I’m going for is gonna have 10 assault intercessors with a chaplain and 10 normal intercessors with a librarian. Should I break up these squads to 5 man squads and have the characters attached to one of the smaller squads.

[@bearnolen3584]

Heavy Intercessors: Min (as back-field objective holder) or Max (as immovable mid-field brick) ?

[@Saieden]

My biggest casualty of the points change in 10th, I realized is the Troupe. They can't be 13 or 14 points per model because the options won't all be a multiple of 5, and at 10 ppm they'd probably be very undercosted, so they're stuck in this very weird place. What's worse is that you can't take 4 Fusion Pistols with a 10 man unit, even though this would line up with the box contents to make 2 Troupe Masters (which suck).

[@LowcaCzarownic]

Harlequin are joke. I do not want 4 fusion guns per 10. But I rather want that they do something on combat.

[@Nyx-Venture]

7 plague marines right? ^^

[@swordbrotherplatt9392]

Well since we don’t have control over the actual size of the units. The point is moot. But when it comes to Black Templar units, it’s generally better to go large. Personally I can’t wait until 11th Ed (coming out next week), where we get control over our unit sizes…. And the Black Templars get our Holy Hand Grenade back again.

[@GundamReviver]

As a new ork player I was thinking running a 20 man boy blob with a warboss with claw and a pain boy, and then having them in reserve and coming in via that deployment strat thing, any warbosses here have experience with that?

[@jakobbarr4216]

20 mans of Krieg. Hard to shift with a Psycher and Death Marshal. Other squad with Solar and Platoon

[@prototype6706]

Exactly my setup, while they're very susceptible for those big anti-infantry weapons, you need those Characters

[@Crunch2327]

You can put Marshall and pysker in 1 krieg unit?

[@malocuillandre1344]

​@@Crunch2327yes, in the unit composition paragraph of the battleline units (any of them iirc) you find the sentence "this unit can be led by up to 2 leaders, provided no more than one is a command squad unit" something like that

[@jakobbarr4216]

@@Crunch2327 yes

[@johannes8270]

19 Szrong Units is allready fixed since last week.

[@Gigasius]

Bring back 20 battle sister squads!😤

[@tomekk.1889]

A squad of 120 tzaangors

[@Sunmourn]

with the change to indirect fire, 10 man squads dont have to fear motar fire nearly as much right?

[@TheBluBrawler]

Mutiple units aye usually better, two separate targets specially with Votann Judges, better scoring secodandry potential and hiding spots, big man are good for giving more wounds to leaders you want alive and swarm to regen if possible

[@ralphranzinger4197]

GW had multibase for 40K Apocalypse but took them down after a short while. Basically, some armies need large units, not only in-game but also because of their lore. It's for these armies (Astra Militarum, Genestealer, Orks, Tyranids) GW should reintroduce multibase for 40k so Unit Size is not a hindrance in game.

[@duncanbradley4015]

As a space marine player I prefer units of 10 max On 32mm bases and 5 max on 40mm base size. Larger rhan that i find it challenging to mobilize the army and not get in each others way.

[@JCodyStG]

I prefer to run smaller squads when I can, it gives me more mobility, lets me cover more ground, and forces my opponent to split up their fire.

[@rougenarwhal8378]

In my dreams there is an all devastator army, either imperial fists or iron warriors. Dev captain, lieutenant, apothecary, even devastator chaplain!

[@pasiperatalo1543]

This was literally the first thing my group houseruled the instant we heard of the fixed costs and we now play with points per models.

[@JackDespero]

It is a house rule, so as long as it is good for y'all, that is great. But IMO points per model does not work for 10th. The unit size and the flexibility with it is priced into the points.

[@pasiperatalo1543]

@@JackDespero The cost for the double sized unit is literally always exactly just double the points. Unless of course it's some devastators style unit where all the weapon options are in the first half or some really small units like nurglings that can perform some gamey nonesense due to being so small. In those cases the varying points per model is used. Other than being able to fill the lists close to max points when you have no units that cost less than 50p, I see no way you could break any balance in your favour by playing ppm

[@JackDespero]

@@pasiperatalo1543 First of all, it is not always double the points. Check the units of 3 Broadsides of Tau. Second, the point I am trying to make is not that the math is wrong. I know how to divide 80/10 to calculate that the unit is 8 points per model. I am saying that the ability of being able to PAY for 15 instead of 10 or 20 is massive advantage compared to the standard game, and it breaks it. An example from my own army: Why would I pay 100 points for 10 novitiates, when I want them just for the infiltrator, and I could pay 10 for just the one which would do exactly the same role as an annoyance for my enemy deployment? Even 30 points for 3 or something like that is so much better than 100 per 10. The problem is that those 10 points for the one novitiate are not worth 10 points, are worth at least 70-80 in terms of game impact (or even 90, as the rest of the novitiate squad is pretty much useless and will most of the time contribute nothing to the game in terms of damage, dealing or soaking it). When you can get that level of granularity in points control, you unlock a degree of minmaxing that simply breaks the game. As I said, if you are playing with your friends and you enjoy playing like that, I am happy for y'all, but I would hate to see that rule implemented as the official way to play the game.

[@JackDespero]

As a final note, I like that sometimes you have to redo a lot of your list because you are 10 points over, instead of just taking a guy out. GW can enforce much more balance via points when you are forced to make large changes even with small points changes. In this edition, 10 points up or down in a unit can change the meta, while with point per model it just means that you need to remove a dude from a unit for which size you do not even care at all.

[@pasiperatalo1543]

That is completely understandable for tournament play and competitive balance, it's just not what we usually play.

[@GFortz]

I think that Warp Talons should definetly go max, especially after the nerf. You can only play the bouncing game with Rapid Ingress on one at the time and even with regular Deep Strike, and you have to destroy a unit to bounce - meaning that if you charged a unit with two 5-mans and manage to kill it, only one of them bounces. It also allows you to play "does it blend" with tougher targets, too.

[@Almighty_Mage]

Played a game yesterday where I took 5 warp talons instead of 10 to save some points. After playing with 5 I think 10 is better.

[@maxmartinez2032]

For things like no prisoners it is also nice to have bigger units makes it harder for the opponent to score.

[@rossrhyne3718]

Youve never had the fun of running 2 20 man primaris crusader squads each with +5 fnp. Templar Tide !

[@The_Blackshield]

Depends on the squad: Deathwatch Veterans, squads of five is fine. Deathwatch Terminatorswith a character? Ten. Deep strike, high output, SiA, triple heavy weapons, flexible cc builds, tough, inv save and a brick in the face of an opponent. So take two squads!

[@philippasanb7542]

Mix is best. 2 big squads with characters and 2-4 small squads for actions and support

[@S1leNtRIP]

Guys, your units should be as big as possible. Your partners will love it.

[@Sirilere]

😂😅😂

[@rowanirish]

I just finished painting up 10 Scouts that has one sergeant with chainsword. Was that a mistake?

[@vividdreamer2692]

Anyone have an opinion on the post update Admech Rust Stalkers? I'm making my 1st army and not sure if I want 2 5 model units or 1 big 10 model unit. Too green to really conceptualize the cost and benefits

[@batondude0818]

I take big squads whenever I can lol, I love 10 terminators

[@erickt8184]

I want combat squads back. Bad enough my deathwatch doesnt get any devastators with multi meltas.

[@spoonsrattling]

im a big fan of elites in big squads, the little gits can wander around tiny like

[@baileysmyth1436]

I play sisters, I literally have no choices on most unit sizes 😂

[@OniGanon]

More small units or attached characters means more miracle dice when they die.

[@michaeldlubac9096]

@@OniGanon Sisters for most units only have one unit size, they don't have the option to add more models, it is one of the complaints about sisters.

[@OniGanon]

@@michaeldlubac9096 If, by most, you mean Battle Sisters, Dominions and Novitiates. You can't make them bigger but you can make them smaller with Immolators.

[@jamiep9991]

How does this work for having a 10 man unit of plague marines as apposed to the default 7?

[@Mr_Secondaries]

Tyranid endless swarm!!!! Muwahaha

[@ProbablyFat]

I cannot stand the 3 man squad shit, its nothign but less plastic, less options, lessdetail yet more money...absouletly HATE the rumor the new Sang Guard are 3 man squads and NO WINGS!

[@CMTechnica]

I like big squads and I cannot lie

[@reginlief1]

I hate that a lot of units are forced into smaller sizes now. Hearthkyn and Skitarii rangers can’t be taken in big blocks any more, which is just a little more boring to me.

[@Kintizen]

With the punishment to 20... I still running 2x20 Kroot with 4x10.

[@sonicwingnut]

30k there with squads of 20 tac marines and 10 guys all with lascannons.

[@gavinbissell8847]

Its not how big your unit is, its what you do with it that counts 😅