NEW ELAC Subwoofers with Better DSP! Varro Reference 12" and 10"

[@Prerich45]

Solid review! However...now you've got me curious about your Magic Beans software 😮❤😊!!!!!!!!

[@AA-ws3vd]

@joe Since you just reviewed the RSL 12S, wouldn't you advise to get two of those for the price of one of the larger ELACs?

[@imz14u2nv]

Great review Joe. I love the features of the subs, very strange looking surrounds though lol. I thinks they could make some waves, but I am a little surprised that they didn't price a little closer to SVS as they are very established as a very good competitive subwoofer company.

[@tima.478]

I have the 10" paired with Elac Solano speakers playing through my vintage Pioneer SX-1080. It's a beautiful sub with a ton of flexibility and sound tailoring through the app. It's definitely well built and sounds great as well. Love that it has the Hi-level speaker inputs, was a huge reason why I chose the Elac. Paid $1,000 , taxes included through Crutchfield.

[@JuanJose-wt5yj]

Thanks for the video and congratulations to ELAC for having such a powerful app. Surely that will make other brands that do not have so many parametric filters or delay move. Written with translator Greetings

[@ealanosborne]

Damn, look at those lighting effects in the B Roll! 😎

[@joentell]

🙏🙏🙏🙏 Subwoofers, or like you say (subwoofers) 😉 are exciting because of the experience they provide. It's hard to communicate that over a YT video, so I have to compensate with nice b-roll. 😁

[@scaudioav]

The app looks clean. I like the 8 peq choices. Not having to also buy a minidsp saves some money. The surrounds are interesting. Almost need to see the cone surrounds in person.

[@tima.478]

It's a beautiful sub, I have the 10". I keep the grille covers on though for a more stealthy appearance but the surrounds are wild especially when I'm getting some crazy woofer excursions.

[@krislatty1136]

I was expecting a audio sample 🙁 I always love your samples as your recording devices always conveys bass clear and accurate thanks for the review tho

[@keepingupwiththejones2933]

Really like the way Joe says subwoofer. With an emphasis on the word woofer ❤❤

[@joentell]

I wonder if that's a So Cal thing. How East Coast folks drop their R's, I heard West Coast people tend to put extra emphasis on certain words they think are important. "TODAY, we're going to take a LOOK, at the NEW...ELAC SubWOOFERS." 😁

[@keepingupwiththejones2933]

@@joentell I love it . Reminds people that we are talking about a woofer. I just enjoy you my friend. Hope you are well.

[@askmatt7283]

The auto-eq on this sub is a game changer. MLP minus near field equals room. Sounds familiar. Hmmm oh yeah, True Target by Magic Beans! This method of calibration is going to change everything in the industry. I can’t believe this hasn’t already caught fire. But the great change is coming and I am all here for it. Keep up the great work. Subscribed 🍺

[@joentell]

Their AutoEQ method is different. They are attempting to remove the room to make MLP sound more like NF.

[@Steve30x]

I'm not sure if you can help me here Joe but I need a hdmi arc adapter. I bought a Polk Audio React surround sound bar system. My problem is my TV doesn't support DTS audio via eARC. When I play a TV show or movie with DTS audio my PANASONIC UB820 sends pcm 2.0 audio to my TV because the TV doesn't support DTS audio. I've tried connecting the audio out hdmi on the blu ray player directly to the soundbar but the blu ray player doesn't recognize that the hdmi audio is going directly to the soundbar. What I want to do is send the arc audio to the soundbar and video signal Tomy TV via HDMI arc adapter. I'm saving to change my TV for one that supports dts passthrough is arc but that's a few months off. The adapter will just be temporary.

[@TheReverendSlim]

8 PEQs and an auto-cal feature? Good to see someone one-upping SVS' already stellar app control. I do wish the gain was listed in dB like SVS does, as that makes it easier to make specific changes.

[@joentell]

Good point. I'll make a recommendation.

[@Mjaybird]

Good review on the subwoofer and app

[@ediarapi2213]

Great review! I wish you would’ve touched on who these subs are for and if they are better suited for music or movies and how they preform in those 2 categories

[@joentell]

Thank you. I'm a firm believer that a system that is good for movies is also good for music. The system doesn't know the difference and lots of movies have music. Movies may be more demanding dynamically (explosions in movies vs dialogue and ambient sounds) but music requires more tonal accuracy since you are likely familiar with certain music more than you are with a movie soundtrack. Again, a well-calibrated capable system can do both.

[@anthonyanello1244]

Joe FYI cabinet thickness helps tame cabinet resonance. Nothing worse than a subwoofer with a relatively low crossover setting rendered useless because the cabinet buzzes well up into the midbass- which blurs the midrange clarity of your main speakers. Thanks for mentioning it nonetheless because this is an important feature for me. You can usually judge this by overall weight as well- lighter subs need not apply.

[@franduca6562]

Cula recomendaria para estereo el svs 3000 o el rs 700

[@bingdong8571]

With external dsp boxes widely available now and lots of great subwoofer drivers on the market for cheap i just hope for sub manufacturers sake that people dont start to realize how easy it is to build a wood box and cut a round hole in it.

[@franduca6562]

Hola Me puedes decir q tal va con musica en estereo

[@adamjj85]

Nice looking competition for SVS, though maybe a bit high in price. But, seems like Elac's app may be superior on first glance.

[@askmatt7283]

SVS recently announced that they are upgrading their app to expand the 3 peq filters and include some type of auto-eq. Considering the size of their market share, if their app upgrade resembles what Elac now has, it would definitely be something to look out for.

[@mrt6349]

This or REL for 2 ch sytstem?

[@eddietours3728]

Cool

[@curt5802]

ok, here's one for you... two RSL Speedwoofer 10 mkii vs two of these ELAC Varro RS 10...???

[@dilbyjones]

Cool. 😎

[@johndaddabbo9383]

The 8 bands of PEQ along with the fact that they include 'Delay' (which isn't to be mistaken with Phase, which is also included) is to die for! I literally was BEGGING manufacturers to include a minimum of 5 bands of PEQ plus Delay... otherwise I simply would not even consider their 3 band PEQ option (with or without Delay) in my buying decision since I would STILL need to fork up more MONEY and more COMPLEXITY by way of external PEQ w/Delay (i.e. MiniDSP). With these Elacs having 8 bands of PEQ with Delay (assuming an adequate amount of Delay is provided - Joe, you didn't indicate), one could now utilize only ONE Descrete subwoofer output (and in fact may only have one) and use all other outputs to drive say a 9.1.6 setup... which would actually be with the Elac subwoofers a 9.6.6 setup! Or say a 2.1 setup... which with the Elac subwoofers could be a sweet 2.4 or even 2.6 setup! I own several Preamps for stereo 2.1 which would magically become 2.4/2.6 setups with EIGHT bands of PEQ per frig'n subwoofer!!! Game changer (IMO).

[@joentell]

Delay on this is limited to 20ms vs something like 80ms on the MiniDSP 2x4HD. You can download the app and they have a demo mode if you want to know more. Yes, you're correct about the difference between phase and delay.

[@johndaddabbo9383]

​@@joentellCool, 20 ms is a full 22 feet, which would likely be plenty for most anyone's setup / speaker arrangement, i.e. it is doubtful that anyone would have for example their "farthest subwoofer from the main listening position an entire 18 ft farther away (4 ft goes to worse case inherent delay within the Subwoofer itself) than the closest Speaker from the main listening position". So say side Surround is at only 4 ft away... a Subwoofer in the front corner of the room can therefore be 22 ft from the main listening position and the Elac's 20 ms of delay will be able to compensate for a subwoofer placed in the room as close as 4ft from the main listening position -OR- the closest Subwoofer placed say directly behind the main seating position (2 ft) and therefore the farther Subwoofer can still be placed 16 ft from the main listening position. Still likely very doable for anyone other than some crazy large rooms. So yeah, I believe 20 ms (22 ft) of subwoofer delay should do the trick for anyone who has only a SINGLE subwoofer output (or say two, but which are in parallel and therefore not Discrete with separate Volume, Distance and Phase adjustment on each sub output)... and of course even if someone does have two discrete Subwoofer outputs, now with the Elac subs one can implement 6 frig'n fully PEQ'd subwoofers into their system.... even if one doesn't have any EQ onboard (i.e. on their AVR or Preamp processor or Preamp)... of course a minimum of one Sub output with Delay (Distance) built into the AVR/Preamp processor/Preamp is still a requirement. And if one does have onboard EQ, then one can use ALL of its EQ'ng power to EQ all 7 plus speakers for it won't need to at all be EQ'ng any of the up to 6 Subwoofers. Ps. This Topic alone could use an entire Video..., as I honestly believe that most folks will simply not understand what these Elac subwoofers are bringing to the table... and therefore not even consider using it to SOLVE their ONE subwoofer output AVR/Preamp processor/Preamp.

[@joentell]

@@johndaddabbo9383 it's probably enough delay. Usually, it's the delay of the main speakers that need to be added to blend with inherent delay caused by DSP and distance. For something like Multi-Sub optimizer, it just needs to delay the subs within each other to get the best response at MLP.

[@TokeBoisen]

With modern advancements in amplifier-power, DSP control and driver designs, I think sealed designs are the way to go for most people. There's no denying the headroom and raw output of similarly priced ported designs, but in terms of shipping, setup, room/decor-integration and day-to-day use, sealed designs seem to be generally better balanced (all assuming competently designed subs)

[@joentell]

I'm with you. I was so shocked at the size of the SVS SB2000 and SB3000. The output is shocking considering the size. The driver is almost edge to edge on the baffle.

[@TokeBoisen]

@@joentell, I definitely think there are tradeoffs, but as you say in your review, most people don't ever listen at reference, or in rooms where extreme low-frequency output would even be desirable, so sealed designs are much more applicable to most people's needs, and I really think we owe SVS a lot of credit for popularizing them in the modern marketplace even for movies

[@user-a33kixd2wq44]

Over 90% the sub nowadays are ported. I assume the speaker manufacturers have enough understanding about the market 😂

[@TokeBoisen]

@@user-a33kixd2wq44, I'd challenge that statement. I don't think only 10% of subs sold today are sealed designs. I'll concede in all price categories for all buyers, ported will rule for cheap, loud, efficient boxes. But the vast majority of cheap, compact subs are flat out garbage, and you know it. Sealed, they don't play deep enough to warrant being called subs, more of a shared woofer for satellites, and ported they might play loud, but they're tuned so high to fit a port in a small box that they become one-note. There's a reason my comment mentions competent design and when used with DSP. All those drive up cost, but I stand by my observations.

[@user-a33kixd2wq44]

@@TokeBoisen I don’t have precise data on the market share; it’s more of an intuitive assessment. The SB1000 seems to be the most frequently mentioned sealed subwoofer, while others tend to be ported(RSL, Monolith, KEF, ELAC, REL etc). However, I’m pleasantly surprised by the exceptional performance of a simple DIY 8-inch sealed box. It delivers remarkable results that are likely to satisfy the needs of most enthusiasts.

[@KimmoJaskari]

The built in PEQ is absolutely the killer feature here, but that said, you can save $200 on the sub and pay it for a MiniDSP instead so it's not really a crucial feature to have. It is, however, a great feature that many people should either have in the sub or in a MiniDSP. Many cheaper receivers don't even have independent sub outputs, even the ones that have two, and a single EQ setting won't work optimally for two subs, you do need independent controls. They look like great subs but $1500 bucks for the 12 is ouch. Pretty sure a Klipsch RP1200SW would destroy it for output, and those cost an even grand at retail. Even with $100 added per Klipsch to compensate for the MiniDSP, you're spending less and almost certainly getting more. If you have space for gigantic boxes, anyway. Just to pick an example. Me, I didn't have the space, and frankly I didn't want to spend that much, so now I have a beautiful pair of BK Electronics 12-inch sealed downfiring in light oak, hand made when I ordered them. For about the price of a single Klipsch. But that's probably realistically a Europe only product.

[@joentell]

Those Klipsch enclosures are much larger from what I've seen.

[@KimmoJaskari]

@@joentell Oh yeah, they're huge and ported so in that sense it's not at all an apples to apples comparison. But price-wise they're actually less, and output wise I would expect them to be superior.

[@ziggy8757]

isnt it better to just buy a SVS sub and add a minidsp later?....

[@joentell]

You could go that route, and I would have no problem recommending that way either.

[@johndaddabbo9383]

I would go one further and buy Monoprice Monolith THX 10/12/15 Subwoofers and forego all of the added extra 'cost' of the SVS subs for DSP/Processing that will be taken care of by either MiniDSP or a fully competent Preamp processor... and therefore be able to do so day-1 without having to wait at all 😉. Just food-for-thought.

[@RYTHMICRIOT]

Subwoofers are like drivers in golf. People will spend outrageous amounts of money on them, despite their limited functionality.

[@joentell]

I get you. I think of all the things in audio, good speakers and a good subwoofer are good places to spend your money. Oftentimes, we cross our speakers over at 80hz and the subwoofers are relied upon to play all of the frequencies below that. Those are the most demanding when it comes to power requirements.

[@impuls60]

1300 bucks for an weak 500W AB amp and they slapped on a 10usd chip DSP?! If it had an 800w class D amp I might consider it.

[@joentell]

I hear what you're saying. The SVS SB3000 is 800W RMS and is less expensive. Lots of great options out there. I will say that you might be surprised what 500W can do. It also depends on the sensitivity of the driver which is something I don't know. In my living room, I have 2 Monolith THX 8" subs that only put out 150W RMS, and they have as much output as the 800W SVS 3000 Micro. Even a single one keeps up. Enclosure size and driver efficiency need to be considered as well. Also, I bet the app development wasn't $10. I think other companies could easily implement more PEQ's and I don't get why they don't. I would love it if every sub had app control.

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

So how much it'd cost me to build something similar with DSP also included?

[@johndaddabbo9383]

Watts mean nothing people... absolutely nothing! If you are comparing Subwoofers to each other based on the # of rms watts they have, Sorry my friend however you are misinformed and would do right by yourself to get better educated on the subject. Pardon me for being so direct, however I am simply so tired of hearing such nonsense. Honestly, please learn more on the topic and you'll be happy that you did 😊.

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

@@johndaddabbo9383 No

[@johndaddabbo9383]

​​​@@JoelHernandez-tz3vkooh, I've been schooled. Hey, Thanks for that reply! Yeah, I do mean well but come across a bit direct at times. Watts as Joe too described in his reply simply on itself means nothing... nothing at all 🙏

[@myplacerighthear3691]

The so-called hacks around on a subwoofer cone is nothing more than a cheap sales pitch it doesn't do nothing for the ultimate sound that comes out of a sub.. it's just another way of making something stand out when it doesn't really stand out in that hexagon shaped rubber ring means absolutely nothing for the depth of quality of the song it does not affect SPL or call the amplifier reacts with the coil nothing whatsoever that a pretty sales gimmick and that's the truth., look into it for yourself you understand

[@joentell]

Perhaps. I haven't done testing myself, but I've seen various surround designs from a reputable brand like KEF use them to control the driver linearity at max excursion. I would need to see the driver in slow-mo with both types of surrounds with and without the odd shape. According to ELAC, this shape prevents the surround from deforming at high excursion preventing unwanted twisting. How much truth there is to that vs just marketing, I can't say for sure.