NEW Major Points Changes for Warhammer 40k Analysis: Part 2 of 2

[@swiffer25]

6:35 I agree with this, also the Apothecary Biologis and Eradictor points nerf last time were because of that Fire Disc combo, all these Gravis Units deserve better for the sins of Fire Discipline (which is now 'fixed')

[@scolack123]

YESSS My firestorm salamandes are suffering (very happy with infernus and vulkan changes tho haha)😊

[@Chuckanory]

100% agree

[@JawaBob]

@@scolack123 Vulkan Lives! Agreed brother, I want a reason to take aggressors with flamers other than fluff. You can pry them from my charred burnt hands.

[@Adalon-]

with the IK point changes it's possible to get 8 armigars and 2 big knights now. I personally always was a fan of 2 knight list so I think this is a great balance.

[@azuth8955]

We dont get another big knight, but this is enough to sneak in 2 big and 8 little instead of 7. Its also enough savings to upgrade which big knight or squeeze another enhancement on one, often fit in an extra agents unit, an extra tech priest in the new detachment or upgrade an ally unit to an armiger. It gives us a few more options and levers for utility stuff without drastically changing lists, basically.

[@azumaakazuma9305]

I really hope the Black Templar grotmas detachment is good. We are not eating good at all, barely got a damn pop tart out of the update.

[@MarlboroFed]

yeah no change to crusaders ridiculous point cost still hurts

[@stephenball-qo7ug]

14 mini knights for Imperial knights, yes plox. You just bring an imperial agents priest as the HQ for 40pts.

[@runeh3022]

if Drukhari Mandrakes went up the last time, SM scouts definitively deserved to do so.

[@lawaern3474]

36:58 unless there's been a rules change, that I missed. Warbosses don't unlock the Waaaagh! They did in 9th, but not in 10th. Which was a good change imo, since it lets you flavor your army as being lead by an oddboy warboss, like Ufthak's Meklord. And also removes the (adimittadly small) possibility of your primary army rule being taken away because a model got sniped. It is required for the Bullyboyz double waaagh though.

[@mentos2424]

This was one of the poorer information sections in the video, definitely multiple inaccuracies and was quite misleading about Warboss units. :(

[@LuckAffe]

11:45 did he just say codex coming out in january? thought it was guard comin in january

[@VT_Jord]

I must of got confused as i thought thats what they said on the livestream for warhammer champs cup, weve removed the section as to avoid any confusion for anyone else watching, luckily eldar havent had any changes but apologies for the mistake

[@DiceandGlory]

I don't get why cadians have done up 😂

[@neruba2173]

The are selling to much of those. They want you to buy the things in green.

[@holdenchambers3986]

Scourges at 130 is especially bad when they natively hit on 4's. Skysplinter Assault is still dead in the water after october and didnt get comped for the scourge nerf that hits them also.

[@Hettav_Blackwater]

Since October the Sisters have been hammered. Points, miracle dice, more points, and so on

[@JawaBob]

I see the Sisters detachments being in the similar position as the Eldar index on release. When Fate dice dropped from 12 to 6, we were convinced the win rate would tank, but in reality the rule was just overtuned. I think Sisters will be just fine in the end and probably sit right next to Eldar on the win rates just under 50%.

[@m3tts695]

@@JawaBob Those cases are not even remotely comparable. Sisters will get an average of what 4 MD per Battleround? How are we supposed to kill tanks? Sisters got a harder nerf at 51% then Eldar got at 80%.

[@JawaBob]

@m3tts695 were you using all of your Miracle Dice before? Probably not. It's more of a logistics game now, pick and choose targets. We'll see how it shakes out, I just know the impuse is to go doom and gloom but in the end things have tended to shake out pretty balanced this edition so I wouldn't dwell on it.

[@m3tts695]

@@JawaBob Yes, I used most of my Dice. Not only for Miracles but to get Characters back up or to fuel Morvenn Vahls ability. We generate somewhere between 66 and 75% less MD. And unless you bring St. Kat, which is painfully overcostet now, you are not even garanteed that the few dice you do get are somewhat usefull. Its not like we have tons of 6s like people pretend we have. We are at 51% wr for a reason.

[@BigWhiskey09]

​@JawaBob bro what are you talking about? Sisters are nearly unplayable now. They have 2 units that could be considered dedicated anti-tank and one is swingy and not at all good and the other relies on MD just like every other decent Sisters unit which will all now be starving each other for MD. And yes many of us were using a majority of our MD before, especially in Army of Faith where you could use 2 per unit. Plus the additional nerf to Saint Kathrine and the nerfs to the only two detachments worth taking. Good luck against any army list that brings vehicles or any of the Space Marines. Sisters definitely wont be hovering around 50%, Id be surprised if they can maintain 40%-45% after being nerfed so hard

[@im2randomghgh]

Not just the salvo launcher - praetor hurricane bolters gained -1 ap and +1 damage! In talons, 6 S5 ap-2 d2 shots each could be an issue for MEQs

[@endosym1158]

Looks like talons interlocked is only for custodes infantry. Vertus are mounted but that would be a nasty combo against MEQs

[@DiceandGlory]

I was running 6* catachans and chimeras 😂

[@stephenball-qo7ug]

ouch, 150pts then anything else you had too

[@DiceandGlory]

@@stephenball-qo7ug scions. 2x hellhounds It wasn't the meta list but had many of the elements of it

[@karlnygren]

My mixed list just went up 100 points. I don't think the changes are too unfair but this is the first nerf that I've really felt since the manticore took a hike up. I only ever had three bullgryns so they just got sidelined for Ogryns.

[@DmitryDodzin]

Now I can squeeze in an imperial rhino for my exaction squad for my incursion Imperial knights army =] now to think about it maybe it's time for another armiger box

[@mokane86]

New detachments , new data sheet balance , numerous updated units… A good time to finally actually put an army together!

[@oinked]

not sure it makes sense though, if marines are struggling then buffing units to increase strength is a good thing. But if you accompany that with a nerf to points - meaning you cant take as many of the units, then have you actually helped the army!?

[@Snuffalaffagas]

Ork Warbosses do not "unlock the WAAAAGH!" anymore. WAAAGH! is part of the base faction rules, you dont need a single boss model to use the WAAAGH! ability. Your faction just needs to be "Orks"

[@karasutenka]

Seeing people cry over things like scouts going up to 75 pts makes me simultaneously chuckle and cry as a Custodes player. *cries in 225pt Battleline units*

[@runeh3022]

If you get rid of the Shoot and move for Scourges, Drukhari will have nothing to kill vehicles or monsters after round 2... The Scrourges are not reliable and the army already struggles a lot vs Necrons, Tyranid Crusher Stampedes etc. The army absolutely needs to be able to chip away at the enemy over time, especially in a vehicle/monster heavy meta. A lot of their other efficient weapons are anti-infantry with extremely low strength.

[@eldenwarden9673]

Spoken like someone who's played the army before, nice take 👍

[@runeh3022]

@@eldenwarden9673 I do play it yes. :-) Scourges are also very unreliable, die to overwatch (especially the haywire ones) if not careful and every other damage dealer you have is made of paper as well, so some matchups are pure hell to play and borderline impossible if you don't go first and actually getting to shoot and kill things in turn 1.

[@eidannishidan3794]

Some of the change feels missing for Spaces marines .... Vanguard Veteran not going AP2 on melee ? (+Shrike does not increase OC of Vanguards ???) Storm Speeder Thunderstrike kinda useless now (Cant cumulate +2 on Wound rolls) Intercessors Still 80 pts for x2 attacks but Sternguard going on +10pts ?

[@geordieglobetrotter7090]

Sisters players reeling from multiple points nerfs and rules nerfs. I was already struggling with them, I’m nit going to be competing at all with them now. Sacresants are beautiful but insanely priced so we can’t put them on the board, repentia are ok but insanely priced, penitent engines and mortifiers still not usable, multiple characters don’t get near a list. We have 1 credible detachment now and nothing at all that thrives in it. Army is going up for sale.

[@optionallemon9262]

Short sighted understanding of the changes to sisters. Go then, sell your entire army. Cry about it instead of adapting to the changes. Quitter mentality.

[@obi-wankenobi4582]

@@optionallemon9262I agree he shouldn’t be selling or quitting but I understand the frustration, sisters are glass cannons, and have gotten nerfed into the ground for no good reason. It’s frustrating seeing sisters which already are a niche and hard to master army get nuked but watch necrons and GSC get nothing but love, especially GSC who’s sitting at a 61% win rate, higher than sisters was ever sitting at before the last balance.

[@BigWhiskey09]

​@@optionallemon9262can you blame the guy though? With all these nerfs, changes to detachments, points increases and now a major hit to Miracle Dice, Sisters are pretty much unplayable. They were difficult to play before since they are a low toughness low wound glass canon army. Then they nerfed them into the ground because they won a couple tournaments and had a 56% win rate at their peak, which is absolutely crazy because they buffed other armies that currently have higher win rates than that 😂

[@optionallemon9262]

@@BigWhiskey09 yes. I can blame the guy. "UNPLAYABLE" oh boy, that's a wild statement. Selling an entire army instead of adapting certain lists to compensate for changes to improve your understanding of your army? That's as quitter a mentality as any other. To each their own. It's just a childish mentality in my opinion to just "flip the table" and storm off in a huff when some nerfs hit your army.

[@Hettav_Blackwater]

@@optionallemon9262 you don't like the reaction, but refuse to acknowledge what incited that reaction. Hmmm? I would have expected carrot, stick, carrot, stick...instead the Sisters got stick x 4

[@ThroatSore]

Yes Jackels were in every list for a reason, because they make a badly designed faction work?

[@Smash_RC]

Im new to warhammer. When do they update the app? That's the main way I keep track of unit points in my army.

[@ScottAT]

So the x10 Group Hug Squad Space Marines went up to 200 a +25 point increase.

[@spacebugs007]

Mike Jord thank you again ❤

[@ericruiz8396]

will the death watch index be under the space marines or with it still be the imperial agents. Is there a date when these are actually releasing as well?

[@otakuon]

The Deathwatch index is already out and it’s Independant from the Imperial Agents list and affiliated more with the SM codex. In fact, the new index says if you use it you can’t use the rules for Deathwatch from the IA codex.

[@ericruiz8396]

@ where would I find it at? Will it be space marines the click regular space marines or what am I looking for exactly and my bad I’m new to the space marine codex I was planning on buying some tomorrow

[@eldenwarden9673]

As much as people dont like the * move shoot move * Try playing one of those armies without that mechanic, it doesnt have near the legs.

[@warp5p1d3r6]

grey knights didn't need any points increases.

[@azrael1045]

Will gw update the rules on the app?

[@swiffer25]

I believe Heavy Intercessors shouldve only gotten up to 100 instead of 110.

[@trentgarton639]

I think I could justify 105, 110 just seems to be a bit much to me.

[@nicholasd7107]

No changes for Thousand Sons?

[@elijahtalmud8281]

Sisters is likely being pushed up in points slightly since it looks like sacred rites will be coming back for 11th ed. E: nvm just saw the rules changes GW really does hate sisters lol

[@obi-wankenobi4582]

Idk, that sounds like cope

[@elijahtalmud8281]

@obi-wankenobi4582 idk what you mean by that you gotta give me more to work with here than just "that's cope"

[@BigWhiskey09]

Sisters getting points increases, on top of points increases, plus getting screwed with the miracle dice nerf, another Saint Katherine nerf, and nerfs to the only two detachments worth taking are going to be damn near unplayable. This is another case of GW way overturning and over nerfing

[@obi-wankenobi4582]

@@elijahtalmud8281 The rules speak for themselves, massive points increases, Miracle dice is effectively halved, BoF detachment is trashed, our only reliable anti tank is getting points increased to oblivion, saint Katherine is garbage now, no points drops on units that are overcosted, Our army now is basically guard but heavily overcosted with a 6+ invulnerable on most units which doesn’t matter because basic sisters die to a gust of wind anyways, no reliable anti tank, and the one special gimmick that gives us a crutch is now nerfed and gaining miracle dice is effectively half of what it used to be. We’re glass cannons without the cannon, and without the model spam that guard has. All because a bunch a babies whined that sisters shouldn’t have a winrate above 55%, except GSC and Necrons, it’s alright GW has to push some GSC and Necron kits for a couple months

[@neruba2173]

What this "balance sheet" really means: -Guys we have sold out marines, we need to sell more titans.

[@nathangarcia2356]

Is it fun just being jaded against any news that comes out?

[@neruba2173]

@@nathangarcia2356 Is it fulfilling walking life with a bandage in your eyes?

[@RhiannaAtriedes]

They nerfed drukhari units that are already fairly niche like what 😭

[@runeh3022]

CSM is at what, 45%-ish win-rate and you're arguing for point cost increases.. right..

[@kabriii]

Yeah, and they received absolutely 0 changes with many many units lagging behind, like the lord discordant and the base sorcerer.

[@azrael1045]

Incepters are unplayable at 120 with 6inch deep strike, scouts at 70 points is to high

[@BiomassEnjoyer]

Nids nids nids nids nids nids

[@jonathantorres616]

Haha first again

[@otakuon]

Ugh…I don’t know what’s worse: GW making my SoB army garbage because of the MD changes or them making my Mech Guard army unplayable because of the massive point increases. Guess I will be playing my DA, GSC and Tyranids armies for now while I wait on what they have in store for my GK boys.

[@joncarr5545]

This is the GW rollercoaster. SoB and Guard are far too strong. Which means it’s only a matter of time before the nerf bat comes in and smacks you.

[@m3tts695]

@@joncarr5545 Sisters sitting at 51% is truly meta defining.

[@otakuon]

@@joncarr5545 Yes, it’s a roller coaster I have been riding for about 30 years now. Eventually, it gets to the point where many of us have to step off of it and take a break for a while to recuperate. It’s also why us grey hairs have collected multiple armies so when GW turns one to crap we have others to fall back on. So goes the endless cycle. I will say that SoB had a few early gains after their new codex came out but settled down to a mid tier army after just a few months. So this “correction” from GW just seems heavy handed when a slight tweak to MD generation (like just the once per battle round part) or points re-adjustments could have been more easy to justify. Same with taking away 3in deep strike AND increasing points for Aquilions. Should have been one or the other, not both.

[@BigWhiskey09]

​@@joncarr5545😂 yet GW buffed armies that currently have a higher win rate than SoB did at their peak

[@WenisTRON]

Call me crazy, SM look terrible. Gladius is dead.

[@FardTeam]

won 2 no name GT:s "Clearly not balanced" *sweeping point increases across the board and rules nerfs* do you two even play warhammer? there is nothing left in the guard they'll be at 39% if we are lucky