New Player Rates Classic Cards

[@CardmarketMagic]

Want to see the current price of these classics? Follow the link here: bit.ly/3Gx8qbc

[@anosmianAcrimony]

This is a nice video but the music is a little too loud and intrusive compared to the volume of the KZbinrs. Just a thought!

[@adalwulf435]

You can for sure cast the Ruinator from your hand. You MAY cast it from the graveyard, but that doesn't mean you can't do it as normal.

[@alexanderyoungert1969]

I was coming to the comment section too say this hah

[@NytoDork]

If only they hadn't mentioned it in the video itself

[@nekrataali]

It's also why it's really bad. If the card is in your hand, you can't just cast it because you still have to exile three creatures. Really funny how they talk about "RTFC" but then don't RTFC to realize it's even worse than they thought.

[@burnsboy101]

@@nekrataali it’s better than they made it lol? What are you on?

[@MikeAsbestos]

This dude should try not to look like more of a noob than the guy he's calling a noob

[@Collisto2435]

When even a new player who doesn't fully understand how Planeswalkers work can point out why Oko is so strong, you know you've made a busted card.

[@peterkirk8510]

I think the difference is that he plays hearthstone. A hearthstone content creator did a collab with PVDDR and was shown oko, and had the exact same conclusion for the same reason. It’s less powerful in magic than having that effect in hearthstone, but getting to do a weaker version of it every turn with upside does sound kinda gross to a hearthstone player

[@paxpacis2]

Why did Magic players think it was bad

[@peterkirk8510]

@@paxpacis2 because 3/3s are not weak (allegedly), they can threaten oko, and a continuous problem with planeswalkers is that the ones that are worth defending tend to be hard to defend. We also hadn’t seen low cost planeswalkers that start on such high loyalty, and consistently want to use a + ability like oko On top of that, I think a lot of people didn’t realize how much the abilities of creatures have started to matter, a plain 3/3 replacing most creatures, even 1 cmc ones, is a downside. Additionally, hitting artifacts isn’t always relevant, but is a big deal in the matchups where it matters. The card was pretty hard to evaluate overall, but it made a lot more sense in practice, since he was so versatile and was basically always good

[@morgantaylor84]

@@peterkirk8510 That and the thing aggro decks WEREN'T taking into account is that -6 face damage is HUGE.

[@ryanstewart5727]

@@paxpacis2 Because a lot of them didn't read the card. Some of us did and said "are you sure that's not a misprint? That's supposed to be a minus ability, right?" It still would have been pretty nuts as a -1 ability, but it would have been a hell of a lot closer to balanced if it cost them resources to use.

[@jaxsonbateman]

I think the Aurelia's Fury segment highlights why an almost completely new player is always going to struggle with stinker vs staple - not knowing about other cards that can do the effects efficiently. You might think that spending 5-6 to temporarily deal with an opponent's board is viable if you're not aware that almost every format has a 4 mana sweeper that permanently deals with them.

[@Amphibian42]

As an experienced player of many years, mainly playing red, and seeing it for the first time, I'm REALLY surprised its not seen as a red control card to prevent counters and board shit down before a power play, it's difficult in red to predict and prevent a player from totally shutting down a combo or massive play but dropping 2 mana at the start of the turn immediately prevents amy mischief they might want to get up to

[@jaxsonbateman]

@@Amphibian42 It's RW though - so if you're doing it for the Silence effect, you could just play Silence (not sure what was in standard at the time if you're talking about it from a standard-specific viewpoint, but even then it's 3 mana for just the silence effect, not 2).

[@Amphibian42]

@@jaxsonbateman OH TRUE IT'S BOROS, I was thinking mono red

[@seilaoquemvc2]

Well, the raw power is there, it just wasn’t in the right standards, today it would easily slot in Hinata control…. No question about that

[@Kryptnyt]

Aurelia's Fury was mostly overrated by players who still thought Fireball was almost good (And of course, both cards are still extremely good in limited!)

[@jokerlover300]

Note for magic players, when talking about Tarmogoyf he mentioned Maju, he meant Gren Maju da Eiza, which scales based on removed from play cards.

[@pilcrowe]

thanks for the comment, was about to write the same thing you pointed out. 6:58

[@CaptainDCap]

I used to go nuts with that card. I had a deck built around Anti Aircraft Flower and monsters that required graveyard monsters to be removed from play to summon them. My GMdA was quite often a 5000+ card...that then proceeded to get wrecked with Hammer Shot. BUT IT WAS FEKK'N COOL!

[@ryanstewart5727]

Everything feeds the Maju?

[@bucketslash11]

@@ryanstewart5727 only banished cards increases its power by 400

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

@@ryanstewart5727 yes, but it's garbage, it has no protection

[@DanteVeiil]

I was just listening to this while playing Arena and when i heard that you can't cast Skaab Ruinator from your hand I Alt-Tabbed in the middle of the game to write a comment how you can cast it from your hand but fortunately I noticed the addendum on the screen.

[@markc6571]

I did a double take when I heard that too lol

[@LinkEX]

I like your attitude.

[@MrCinnamonWhale]

I wish more people did lol

[@snowhusk]

I like your style, dude, mad respect

[@schumerus6786]

If Oko only was 3 loyalty and had the transform on -1 and Food on +1 instead of 2, that would have been ok then. A lot of “ifs” for a card haha

[@celem91]

The name we're ok with, the rest of it's identity was nothing but problems XD

[@Ol_White_Fatalis]

Yeah, the thing with Oko being so broken was that having a planeswalker with cmc 3 that can go up to 5-6 loyalty is just insane, and ofc it's +1 is extremely flexible and powerful, especially in eternal formats where artifacts are everywhere. It could act as "removal" For opponent artifacts or creatures, since giving them a vanilla 3/3 is a big downgrade in almost every situation, and also can serve you as a wincon, making your own food tokens or useless artifacts, depending on game state, into 3/3s to kill your opponent. Also it's -5 is pretty good and can be activated in the second turn Oko is on the battlefield without dying. Oko was just waay to busted in every way: low cmc, high loyalty, an insanely powerful +1 ability that is disgustingly flexible.... Everything man xD.

[@UGRdelver]

+1 for food -2 for elk This has been the standard of most planeswalker design, removal ability has minus value more than the plus ability

[@lithiumwhiskey1891]

@@UGRdelver Exactly, like Liliana of the Veil, +1 discard, -2 Sacrifice. Starts with 3 Loyalty. Shoulda just stuck with what they had been for 3 drop walkers.

[@bloodwire7152]

@@Ol_White_Fatalis and there was also that damned goose, who made it possible to cast Oko on turn 2 and have access to it's ramp by creating another food. A planeswalker with 6 loyalty at the end of turn 2 is just too good for standard

[@Vardaris]

Making newbies try to evaluate Magic cards is one of the funniest new ideas in MtG and even TCG games in general.

[@vxicepickxv]

Getting people that play other games evaluating Magic cards is actually funnier.

[@HuxtableK]

@@vxicepickxv And you can change this out for the game. Pick a Magic player to evaluate Hearthstone cards, get a Hearthstone player to evaluate a Yu-Gi-Oh card, and so on.

[@vivecanada1]

Correction not mentioned on screen, Tribal did exist when goyf was printed originally. There was a tribal rebel enchantment in the same set.

[@ladiesman2048]

Every one of these type of videos should include Lion's Eye Diamond, it's so hard to evaluate and it used to be junk before it became awesome

[@nekrataali]

LED is even more hilarious because Black Lotus is too slow for Dredge in Vintage (one of the few decks that doesn't play it), but Vintage Dredge will still play Lion's Eye Diamond just for the free discard outlet.

[@ThrashyThrash]

LED was trash when it came out. I was playing then and we literally threw that card away because we felt so cheated when we got one... In retrospect, I regret doing that.

[@MK-13337]

@@nekrataali I have never seen vintage dredge play LED, since they don't play anything with mana anyways. I should know since I sometimes play vintage dredge :D

[@peterkirk8510]

@@nekrataali it’s not too slow for dredge in vintage, it’s that the mana isn’t useful. They only cast spells that can be cast for free, because their plan is to mull/powder to bazaar every game (and as a result, cannot reliably have enough mana to cast spells that don’t have alternate casting costs). Doesn’t play LED either - bazaar does it all, and considering you’re frequently mulling to 4 or less, LED discarding your hand doesn’t tend to mean very much. I think the actual thing you may be thinking is that it’s sort of a tossup if legacy dredge would want LED or lotus, which is true.

[@Trisket]

@@ThrashyThrash LED became truly busted with the printing of Yawgmoth's Will in Urza's Saga a few years later, cast Will, crack LED in response, go off king.

[@Aqsticgod]

2:50 where in the card does it say u cant cast it from your hand, the graveyard bit is "you may" meaning you have a choice, epic fail from a magic pro

[@danielreeves9785]

People didn't think Oko was awful, they just didn't think he was the best planeswalker ever printed and playable in every eternal format.

[@mr.joesterr5359]

I remember calling my pal talking about spoilers we both said ‘-1 for beast within is crazy strong!’ Hung up. I immediately called him again saying ‘WAIT BRO ITS A PLUS ONE!’ And he legit didn’t believe me lmao We both thought it had to be a typo cause otherwise he would be the best walker ever printed and sadly it wasn’t a typo lol

[@Addictive_me]

I remember there were images of him on Twitter before we even knew what a food token was. So the comments were like "Hmm, we'll need to wait and see what Food tokens are before we really know if he's good" - proceeds to be one of the most powerful cards every printed

[@maxreis9534]

Skaab Ruinators artwork is so great. Sad its unplayable. Walking Balista seems too much carried by other cards (Tron lands, Heliod, Constrictor) to be evaluated by someone who doesnt know all these cards.

[@celem91]

Agreed, balista is a combo-piece that is unimpressive without its other parts. Played at just the right time it instantly ends even multiplayer games, but the text doesn't give much clue to that

[@Ol_White_Fatalis]

Yeah ballista doesn't look that good by itself, It's a great card when combined with others that support it(high mana-producing decks like tron, various combos...)

[@ВладимирОлейников-г7г]

I remember Balista seeing a good amount of play in Standard when it was legal, it didn't require much support to be a growing creature that could do direct damage to any target. It stays a good card because of the support, but it was good enough on its own.

[@ltjgambrose]

@@ВладимирОлейников-г7г Ballista for 2 mana was totally playable in standard. It's good in control decks to block and kill aggro creatures, good in aggro to finish off opponents, and +1/+1 counters have support in almost every format.

[@mrrodgers0]

@@ltjgambrose Yeah, people often forget/fail to recognize that Ballista's worst case is "2 (generic!) mana, kill an X/1 or ping an opponent/planeswalker" at sorcery speed. While this isn't especially spectacular, it's still an impressively high floor for a card that is both very versatile and very scalable.

[@Generic42]

You really talked him out of the Tarmogoyf there

[@TheZanzou]

He did that a couple of times throughout the video, talked him out of tarmogoyf and talked him into fury, but he also helped him on Skaab albeit by lying because he didn't actually understand how the card worked and made it even worse than it already was.

[@Aquilenne]

I feel like he got caught on the definition of Staple with Tarmogoyf since in Yugioh "Staple" generally means cards that you see in almost every deck, while in MTG it just means good cards. He really seemed to be halting on the idea of it being used in every deck, which is very fair since at least back when I was playing it was pretty much exclusively being run in Green-Black-X midrange decks that ran 6+ killing removals in Lightning Bolt/Fatal Push (as opposed to Path to Exile), and 6+ sorcery discards in Thoughtsieze/Inquisition to do as much as they could to ensure that it would be coming down on turn 2 as a 3/4.

[@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688]

It feels so f***ing good to see a total novice to the game immediately sniff out the exact reasons Oko would eventually get all but errata-ed from the game.

[@gabrielethier2046]

Commander still has it, and it's still insane in that

[@ryanstewart5727]

A total novice took one look at it and says "yeah, this is busted", but Magic R&D couldn't see it. Like, I'm not saying that they're to coked up to read, but...

[@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688]

@@ryanstewart5727 I'm pretty sure they knew it was busted, and were just trying to make cards so powerful every player needed to buy them, and took it miles too far. I don't agree with that design philosophy, but I think Amazon is a monopoly, so what do I know.

[@ryanstewart5727]

@@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688 A very real possibility after looking at the cards they've released since then.

[@pickledblowfish6178]

@@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688 i think it's more likely that they don't play their own game, don't care, or their release cycle is so fucking fast it doesn't allow for any testing whatsoever.

[@lordgreystaff6639]

Neropotence, Jace The Mindscuptor, Island, all were criminally underrated in Magic’s distant past when they first came out. In modern times Ledger Shredder was at first considered a bulk rare. Didn’t take long for that to change.

[@_Mythic777_]

Oh god, not Ledger Shredder... lol

[@velphidrow]

Ledger Shreder wasn't bulk. People knew it was good It was HOW good

[@nedcurfman3486]

Island the most BS card in the game. It enables Blue.

[@markusaurelius83]

I think it should be mentioned that it is so easy to tutor for the Ballista. It's a 0 cmc spell that counts as a creature and an artifact, so many cards let you search for it from your Deck. Even Mono White Decks have enough Tutors to find this card, when they are ready to combo off with it.

[@Cryxboy]

Aurelia’s Fury actually had a recent revival in playability in Commander due to the new legendary creature Hinata from Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty. With Hinata in play, Aurelia’s Fury when cast using only as little as RW, can silence all 3 opponents and tap all of their creatures. Hinata turns Aurelia’s Fury from a near unplayable bulk mythic into a potentially game-ending support card/silence effect.

[@cthulhu8164]

In terms of EDH, while not denying how busted AF is with Hinata, AF was originally first truly redeemed by, ironically enough, Feather the Redeemed, turning AF into a repeatable way to destroy creatures, lock out your opponents from casting noncreature spells and tap down defenses, every single turn. You can even see this being reflected in the price history, AF was at its highest cost (excluding the initial high price) after Feather was released, and while the price rose after Hinata, it didn't rise to the same point that Feather took it to.

[@Wooter29]

I actually play this card in my Hinata deck and it destroys

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

Aurelia's Fury is *only* really good in Hinata edh. It is so good in that deck, tap all you're opponents creatures, kill the 1 toughness ones, and make it so nobody can cast counterspells or any other flash/instant all for 2 mana.

[@WangerZ3291]

if this is good in one deck specifically...it may as well be useless altogether...

[@cephalopad]

It can be decent in a Feather deck too, largely because you can keep re-casting it to clear the way for commander damage. Even still, it is a bit expensive mana-wise, so probably not useful until turn 6 or so.

[@TheFiretiger]

It's pretty ok in feather edh as well since you can use it as a soft lock to someone while you attack someone else. Not great but it is....ok

[@HuxtableK]

Yeah as far as the Tarmoghoyf card, Tribal cards did exist IN THAT SET. There was like one of them, Bound in Silence, which was a Tribal-Rebel card, but still.

[@ShadowReignhart]

And Lorwyn introduced Planeswalkers later the same year.

[@HuxtableK]

@@ShadowReignhart I hadn't considered that.

[@ryanstewart5727]

Everything feeds the Ghoyf

[@xolotltolox7626]

​@@ShadowReignhart Wasn't tribal a main mechanic of Lorwyn as well?

[@HuxtableK]

@@ryanstewart5727 Now the new question: does a Battle feed the Ghoyf?

[@Sivarias]

I don't know ANYONE who thought oko wasn't broken when it was spoiled. It was a +1 for a Beast Within every single turn.

[@woolfram6517]

wait why wouldn't you be able to cast Skaab Ruinator from hand? The extra payment is that you must exile three creatures from the graveyard but it's not mentioning having Skaab in the actual graveyard... the 3rd ability is that YOU MAY so I guess Carl maybe described it a little bit by his own words :) Cool video!

[@lastofusclips5291]

yes, you can cast it from your hand.

[@nekrataali]

Also you still have to pay the cost of exiling 3 creatures from your graveyard, even if you cast it from your hand.

[@woolfram6517]

@@nekrataali you don’t say… i was mentioning that you can cast it from hand not that you mustn’t fulfill the text of exiling creatures

[@burnsboy101]

@@woolfram6517 he’s replied to another comment this as well, must like feeling superior to others

[@nZifnab]

The video already has that correction in-place ;) There's text during that part that nobody seems to have read.

[@DenTehMan]

Adam: Mentions GREN Maju (Da Eiza) and how it keeps getting bigger and bigger by the number of banished (=exiled/removed from play) cards. Video: Shows GREAT Maju (Garzett), which gets a one-shot boost upon being Tribute Summoned (put into play by sacrifice) ...what.

[@vxicepickxv]

I can forgive them putting up the wrong card from a different game more than not reading a card in front of them that said can cast from the graveyard and not can only cast from the graveyard.

[@DenTehMan]

@@vxicepickxv Two cases of "reading is hard", but at least the "can only be cast from the graveyard" fluke was fixed in the edit.

[@FishFosh]

Not mention Gren Maju is worthy of the staple category but Great Maju is a big ol' stinker.

[@LadyBernkastel92]

Ah Aurlia's Fury. Another in a proud line of cards that are just Fireball with basically what amounts to really sexy sounding flavor text.

[@shaneg9081]

Some of the OGs of people missing the power of a card at first - Necropotence (one of the mags at the time called it the worst card in the set), Force of Will (the free card was "too expensive"), and Memory Lapse ("but they just get to cast it again next turn!")

[@derekhall8453]

You actually can cast skaab ruinator from your hand you just also need 3 creatures in your graveyard

[@cerealforserious]

Just wanted to comment and say you guys are reigniting my love of magic! Keep up the content ❤

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you :) I'm happy we are getting you back in touch with the game we love

[@joelowdon1615]

Good idea for content, just a shame the host missed some key information about some of the cards.

[@AutumnReel4444]

This, host doesn't play much it seems

[@lastofusclips5291]

@@AutumnReel4444 that fact that he neglects the limited format supports this (e.g. aurelia's fury is amazing in limited)

[@tahlialysse]

@@lastofusclips5291 the host also seemed to have no idea that while Aurelia's Fury wasn't a bomb staple, it still saw moderate standard play, especially in mid-range at the time. Doming their face on upkeep to stop their ability to cast a sweeper (and giving you another attack) isn't nothing, and many of the mid-range decks of the time were happy to play around with mana sinks for the late game. Like it's such an odd pick to call a stinker and really just doesn't fit the staple vs stinker dichotomy very well at all.

[@nekrataali]

@@tahlialysse People were even playing singleton Aurelia's Fury after Bonfire cycled out. Pure U/W was probably the best control deck in that format followed by Esper, but there were a few American Control players during Theros. The main reason to play U/W/R over the other color combos was because of Aurelia's Fury and Lightning Strike.

[@TheWolfLetsPlay]

Oko can still be played in Commander, one of the most popular formats in magic. This is why the price is so high.

[@Worldly_Pitfall3]

This host doesn’t really seem to look like he plays much magic

[@randomguy6680]

Wasn't Oko arround 20€ at pre-release? No one in their right mind thought the card was bad. Especialy after seeing it in action even at pre-release.

[@pistolpete7422]

Most planeswalkers tend to be upwards of $10-15 on release regardless of good or bad.

[@randomguy6680]

@@pistolpete7422 Yes, but the price I gave is far from the range you quote. So I do not see the relevence.

[@ShaqPlaque]

@@randomguy6680 By prerelease, the full set had been spoiled, so at minimum, the Food token and it's immediate synergies with the Fight Wolf at 4 and the Goose at 1 were clear. I'm not up on my Euro to USD conversions but comparing to the Goyf price announced in the video (a card that's seen a lot of reprints) that sounds like the price tag of a Walker expected to be a clear pillar of Standard without necessarily showing up in Eternal play. People knew it was good, but no one was expecting it to outperform Jace the Mind Sculptor in Legacy

[@FaliggetFTW]

Haven't played magic in 20 years. Guessed literally the opposite on every card so I went 3-2. No clue how Plainswalkers fit the game so that one was kinda hard to guess.

[@megadragonmon]

To be fair on Walking Ballista, I think it rates the same as Aurelia's Fury- In a vacuum, not great. But an amazing combo piece with a lot of stuff! As opposed to stellar in a vacuum, but outperformed everywhere else

[@gabrielethier2046]

It isnt just a good combo piece, it's also just a solid card

[@Noobie2k7]

As someone who's only just started playing MTG in the last couple months but a long term Yugioh player I looked at Walking Ballista and wanted to throw up. I insantly just saw that it's ping effect was not once per turn and knew there'd be some dumb infinite combo that's far too easy to do.

[@LinguaVeritatis]

The excitement to tell him the answer about Walking Ballista was clearly to see. I could feel his excitement as well. He did his best to throw him off about his powerful ability. Great episode

[@Relisysification]

Skaab Ruinator can be cast from hand, 'may cast from graveyard' is very different to 'can only be cast from graveyard'

[@Vengetuen_Wraith]

a note about aurelia's fury, in a horizon deck or another mana commander deck it is versatile enough to be a counterspell that works by removing the player from the game

[@Strolpol]

Aurelia’s Fury was the first time I preordered a playset of mythics as a spec…man, never made that mistake again

[@tobyteng7522]

6:59 I think the Yuigoh card he was referring to is Gren Maju Da Eiza.

[@silastopole]

yeah, found it hilarious that they edited in garzett 😂

[@felixmortem1177]

At the time Planeswalker didn't exist but tribal did exist, Bound in Silence is a Tribal Enchantment - Rebel Aura printed in Future Sight, part of the original Time Spiral block

[@stefandaboss7589]

I heard the yugioh player coming through when he said eldlich instead of eldritch

[@makingnoises2327]

Wish someone had made the analogy between Walking Ballista and Catapult Turtle/Cannon Soldier

[@schrottinator]

I remember people saying that Arclight Phoenix would be trash.

[@tomdum8177]

I knew Oko was going to be busted. I definitely underestimated how busted. Walking Ballista definitely got me

[@tinkerer3399]

Walking Ballista didn't get me but only because I metagamed a little and went "This card seems so terrible it must be fantastic". Although I am extremely embarrassed for thinking it was terrible because in my limited MtG experience I mainly played a Helios +1 counter farming deck. I really should have known how easy +1s are to get.

[@sashacutie3]

This was cleaver. Do more of these

[@09Dragonite]

DV for not knowing what a lhurgoyf is Also Goyf could become a 6/7 at the time of its printing (artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, sorcery, LAND) just for clarification. Dropping 2 in a game often meant winning that game for a very long time, and the card even hit the $200 mark in the US for a little while prior to its first reprinting in 2013 in Modern Masters.

[@Sodmaster111]

"You can play oko almost nowhere" Commander players: "am I a joke to you"

[@rileygilmond7014]

You legit said "Almost" in the quote lol. Edh players would be that almost.

[@Null_Experis]

that's a good way to get pithing needles and/or lose friends.

[@machdude3366]

@@Null_Experis In a 4 player free for all, Oko is not that dangerous because it can't check everyone. Oko is strong because it is oppressive against 1 player, but its main purpose in commander is to prevent a pop off. With how much I'd available in commander, it isn't nearly as strong.

[@Null_Experis]

@@machdude3366 The ability to turn ANY artifact or creature into a simple 3/3 elk is ridiculous by itself, even if it's only once a turn it can still steamroll most opponents not using strats to mitigate it like creatureless decks or heavy enchantments or decks that allow you to leverage food tokens. The fact that an oko player can do this on turn 2 is worse.

[@SquibbyJ]

When he mentions Gren Maju, they show Gren Maui Garrett which is not the card he was talking about. The effect he’s describing is Gren Maju Da Eiza, which is a Yugioh! Card which pops up every few years when big attack stats and banishing is really strong.

[@Rikerslash]

The funniest thing about Tarmogoyf is that it was a couple Cent card for a very long time after release. And then it exploded in some weeks in price.

[@Wadupitdog]

Absolutely love this series guys, it's been incredibly helpful and insightful as a new magic player. Pleasseee keep em comin

[@ThrashyThrash]

I had stopped playing standard when Oko came out, and I immediately knew it would be busted in standard and Modern. I don't know how so many people missed it.

[@sebastianlavallee706]

Honestly don't think people missed it - it always felt like the only excuse for printing him in the first place would be accidentally writing +1 instead of -1.

[@jared_tech3511]

They put GREAT maju next to tarma lol. It's GREN maju. Pretty different cards

[@SergeantXelkir]

I kinda find it funny that they never mention commander/EDH since it affects prices in major ways, especially with oko

[@ExtremeMedium]

When I read "classic cards" I was thinking Arabian Nights or maybe Weatherlight. I am old

[@lugarial]

I always thought Skaab Ruinator was breakable in modern. I mean, 5/6 flying for 3 mana, playable from graveyard and hand, and zombie type makes it quite breakable in the right deck. It turns out the "exile 3 creatures" clause to cast it makes it a lot weaker. Hogaak had more flexibility, and ended being banned in modern while becoming a graveyard staple in legacy, vintage and commander. Sometimes the barieer between mediocre and broken is thinner than we think...

[@TonyS-ge1ct]

Did played Skaab Ruinator in a serious modern event in 2016...as a one of in the sideboard on merfolk against Jeskai control or so. Didn't really shine as I recalled but I guess it is pretty much the only way it could be relevent: Aether Vial it out on 3 counters -> Cast it once more from graveyard.

[@The__Leo]

Graveyard hate is too good and ubiquitous for this card. Even if it only required you to exile two creature cards you'd never get to cast it after sideboarding.

[@AmaraTheBarbarian]

Skab ruinator has a lot of problems, in its standard cycle there was a fair amount of reanimation iirc, and in other formats you've basically got all the reanimation effects you could ask for that don't have stipulations or have ones that are easier to work around that get you anything you want. Then as far as commander goes I can see a couple decks where it might be a decent card when you don't have recursion otherwise because at least the body is biggish... Idk

[@LucRice]

15:00 “can’t play anywhere” -Commander players screaming in the corner

[@DenTehMan]

Nope. He said "almost".

[@adawoo5494]

This episode missed a chance to just play a copy of Cannon Soldier over the ballista. The last ability on ballista and cannon soldier are broken in basically the exact same way, he would instantly understand lol

[@Strolpol]

It’d help if he knew mechanics like undying existed

[@wastastroma8075]

13:39 you can play oko in commander as well

[@drake11011]

I thought oko was okayish until i realized that I misread the card and the 2nd ability was a +1 instead of a -1 like I originally thought. Then I thought it was busted.

[@ericb8342]

I love these vids, and I'd love to see more, but you know what would be great? Having an actual new MTG player run the game. Say, a player who has just picked up the hobby, and is familiar with the basic flavour of the colour wheel, maybe evergreens - has familiarized themselves with a deck or two, but lacks encyclopedic knowledge. Ideally, someone who's played just enough to catch The Bug. To use examples from this vid: if we're asking a player to rate Aurelia's Fury, I'd love for that to be someone who sees X/W/R and thinks "Wait, Boros has mana sinks? Does this...work?" Or, someone who scoffs at Tarmogoyf because "oh, that's the Greenest thing I've ever seen - Staple, right?" and then hits Skaab Ruinator and kicks themselves for forgetting how little Blue relies on creatures by comparison.

[@notmychannelname42]

There is a much simpler solution to making Ballista a win condition and it is to lower activated ability costs. If you can lower the cost to 0, you can pay nothing to gain a counter until you have more counters then the other player's life total.

[@trentcofaxmtg7501]

Love watching people evaluate magic cards. And its also funny how often we as magic players miss evaluate card power. Thanks

[@chaedi8457]

The first two cards I thought of are Lion's Eye Diamond and Flash.

[@nickwoollon9855]

I said when Oko was spoiled that he's broken AF. Someone opened an Oko at prerelease and I told them to splash him even if they were playing WR aggro because he is just so good. No one blieved me at my LGS. I like to have a smug face of 'I told you so' whenever anyone brings him up. One of my proudest MTG moments

[@auberry8613]

You could just mulligan for your one oko and it'd win you games by itself, huge pack rat energy

[@Disco4ia]

I remember pulling a full art Oko at prerelease and was so stoked to make a deck with him. Then I found out he was banned :(

[@0331ball]

The cold read on oko +1?! Nice job new player

[@bluepomegranate]

He did a better job evaluating the card than R+D did when they designed it lmao

[@hoodiegal]

Aether Revolt was such a fun set. The Revolt mechanic, energy counters, Hidden Stockpile, Winding Constrictor, Atherflux Reservoir... There were so many ways you could make decks that looked like utter jank but somehow were viable enough to have fun with in standard, and win in silly and unexpected ways.

[@afktuna1985]

7:03 Minor note, but the YuGiOh card is off - the card he was referring to was"'*Gren Maju* Da Eiza". For anyone who doesn't know, its 3 star with the ability "This card's ATK/DEF are each equal to the number of your banished cards x 400" - to give a point of reference of potential scaling of a beater in another game.

[@scorpiusbalthazar4327]

This is about Magic: The Gathering, no one cares about how he got that wrong.

[@Last_Resort991]

The main problem with Oko is that it's second ability is +1 when it should have been -1. I'm surprised he didn't mention that.

[@EskChan19]

But it IS a +1. It doesn't matter what it SHOULD have been, what matters is what it is. And Oko is an always has been a +1 effect. And that is busted.

[@Last_Resort991]

@@EskChan19 Thanks Captain Obvious. I double checked and it really is a +1. We all didn't know until you told us.

[@Ornithopter470]

Also, Planeswalkers and tribal cards were in lorwyn block, which was released directly afterwards.

[@daftwulli6145]

I would play aurelias fury in midrange, i do not care about killing your cratures but for 1 mana per creature i can tap all your blockers and get a lot of damage through.

[@duneblythe]

if they have 5 blockers that is 7 mana. 7 mana should do way more than tap 5 creatures

[@daftwulli6145]

@@duneblythe 5 blockers is A LOT. More realistic is like 2-3, and delivering a killing blow for 4-5 mana seems good to me

[@atle853]

Skaab Ruinator was a house alongside Myr Superion in my Vial and Company modern deck for a while.

[@QuestionMarc]

The first few Tribal cards were printed in Future Sight, the same set as Tarmogoyf. And the first Planeswalker cards were printed in the very next set, Lorwyn.

[@GodzillaFreak]

The editor didn't know what gren maju was lmao

[@dapperghastmeowregard]

Fun fact: Htarmy was only supposed to be an okay limited creature that was a sneaky preview for Planeswalkers (IIRC they were actually going to have a Planeswalker, but didn't have them ready in time so they made our boi instead).

[@Ol_White_Fatalis]

The people calling Oko bad at the time just didn't realize how powerful it's +1 is in the eternal formats, where powerful artifacts and creatures are everywhere. . It can serve as removal, wincon... Just insane versatility and raw efficiency. I was one of those that actually recognized how powerful this pw was at spoiler seasons, i knew it would be a powerhouse in legacy and shit. I think it was underrated because it's +2 looks pretty meh(still combining with it's other 2 abilities nicely) but having a 3 cmc pw, with so high loyalty and that +1.... Also it's +2, then next turn - 5, steal something and survive with 1 loyalty is pretty nasty. Dude was crazy for sure xD.

[@howardfloyd2102]

Skaab ruinator existed in standard with misthallow gryphon witch can be cast from exile I won quite a few fnm using it

[@Ellie-Angela]

Something that went unmentioned with Ballista is how the 4 mana ability works as an outlet for mana, and an outlet that serves a very nice purpose overall. I'm not familiar enough with Modern and eternal formats other than commander to say if that's important there? But I do know that commander and its combo-centric meta can use that in many situation, including at the highest levels of play for it, where games can end with an infinite mana combo being poured into ballista to kill everyone else.

[@Shek1nah]

walking balista pairs exceptionally well with mephidross vampire.

[@0331ball]

It's been many years, and I still think Skaab ruinator is badass. Total steal at 1$

[@JohnAutopsy]

Just out of curiosity: where do you play it? Self Mill Decks are typically anything but creature heavy. EDH with Sidisi comes to mind, but a 5/6 vanilla flyer isn't that great in the format.

[@Kristjan0209]

@@JohnAutopsy what are talking about self mill deck run lots of creatures since they are often the best payoffs for self mill while also being the best self millers?

[@JohnAutopsy]

​@@Kristjan0209 sure, if you count reanimator decks. Was thinking more of dedicated self mill decks that use Thoracle effects as a win con. I still don't see how Skaab Ruinator wold fit in either of these strategies.

[@Kristjan0209]

@@JohnAutopsy Well it's close since it's way stronger brother crave crawler sees play in crabvine. If it's abilities we're to be changed a bit it might see play in that deck. Also I would never call a oragle deck a self mill deck, it would be like calling twin a token deck.

[@JohnAutopsy]

@@Kristjan0209 good for you

[@daxillion]

My whole red and green agro deck is based on cheap +1/+1 counters and buff instants, and I had the same problem as the guy rating the last card. I didn't realize that other cards can interact with this one! It would make my already powerful in my opinion deck insanely op. Idk how I didn't realize this before you explained why it's banned.

[@hitmangfx7162]

I wasn't around for when Oko dropped, but I can't imagine so many people thought stinker on this one. A three mana planeswalker that is going to be on the board for awhile and can ultimate on its second turn is already going to be solid.

[@ryanstewart5727]

It was bizarre watching so many seasoned players be so wrong about that card.

[@matthewcartermusic]

I've got a mono-blue self-mill deck that Skaab Ruinator is the star of! It's quite strong in the correct build. Exile a Misthollow Griffin, then you can cast it from exile! Yes a tad jank, but still super fun to play.

[@miri669]

Balista is a kill card for any infinity mana deck, is a combat trick, is a mana dump, is a removal card, is a comba card with deathtouch or any noncombatdamage special effects (like sigil of sleep), it just does it all. And it wors on generic mana.

[@dgreen7464]

One of the funniest memories I have with oko is a friend said that they found this card that is “the perfect answer to oko!” When he went to play test, oko just kept turning it into an elk 😂

[@gayMath]

was smiling during the whole walking ballista segment, i play commander and generally can tell if a card is going to be a staple or banned in other formats if i've seen it often, and man I love walking ballista. I don't think it's ever even really been the most perfect synergy with any of the decks i've put it in, but dang if it can't find a way to synergise with any deck that makes any reference to +1/+1 counters. one of those nice little cards that can just synergise with a very palpable percentage of the strategies in the game

[@Tvboy777]

I was in attendance at a prerelease for the original Innistrad. The only cards people were willing to trade binders for was Snapcaster Mage and Liliana.

[@drillmachine7]

There's a trick when you request to someone evaluate Oko or, for example of a new card, Kiki Jiki's saga. The most of players don't have idea how powerful those cards are when they were released and it's hard to evaluate it without playing it before or watching a match with those cards in play.

[@Shadyguy111]

The one staple I called back in the day wasn't a huge sleeper, but I called out that Delver was a flying Wild Nacatl and would be very good.

[@infernalgoblin4508]

the fact that goyf referenced planeswalkers when they didnt come out till the next block is kinda crazy.... i never noticed that

[@vxicepickxv]

Same with tribal cards.

[@Kettwiesel25]

One tribal card existed in Timespiral block already: Bound in Silence

[@Eserchie]

Walking ballista also effectively has "when this creature dies, it deals x damage distributed as you choose among any number of targets, where x is it's power"

[@johnfanjoy3469]

In future episodes of this series, you should hit some of the classics, like Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Will, Oath of Druids, or Memory Jar.

[@Kalenz1234]

Why would he say you can't cast Skaab Ruinator from your hand? 🤣 6:58 NOT GRAET MAJU! Gren Maju! Great Maju is a stinker. Gren Maju is a staple 😉

[@marcoottina654]

17:43 what if it's used to stop the player from counterspells on that turn?

[@Kurotarosama]

Where did people think Oko was bad? Almost all of r/Spikes and r/mtg both knew it was at least extremely powerful on release, they just didn't realize it was beyond broken.

[@brucwayn6403]

as a newer sub to the channel ive gone in reverse order of your vids as player of both tcgs yugi knowledge gives a good idea for combos but mtg has aspects that dwarf yugiohs combo flow this was a fun video

[@darrichaney6048]

I think he did a great job. Walking ballista got everyone it was $1.25 when it first came out

[@aqdjbcr]

“May” vs “must” or “can only” Magic language is very precise

[@N008Nightmare]

Actually, tribal did exist when goyf was printed. Bound in Silence was a Tribal Enchantment- Rebel Aura that was also printed in future sight. The BIG spoiler on goyf was planeswalker. We all assumed tribal was on there because of Bound in Silence. Of course both tribal and planeswalkers debuted as non gimmicky things in the next block (Lorwyn/Eventide).

[@TheCaptainTroll]

The walking ballista has to be one of my favorite mtg creatures

[@yuen4817]

Oko, only playable in vintage or kitchen.... Edh: "am I a joke to you?" Great video, I love this series!

[@CardmarketMagic]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@saphironkindris]

honestly I got tripped up with the ballista question for the same reason, for some reason my brain just defaulted to considering them 'ballista counters' rather than something other cards could also give to it.

[@artstsym]

If I've said it once I've said it 100 times, not EVERYONE low-balled Oko, especially not anyone who remembered the Mind Sculptor debacle, and that was at FOUR mana.

[@FearOgre]

Most people knew Oko was going to be good

[@artstsym]

So I felt as well, yet I keep seeing these pieces like "Oko was way bigger than anyone expected," so clearly someone didn't get the memo.