New RV Problems - Why They're So Common And How To Avoid Them

[@amyparrish3943]

Uneducated buyer here. Had no idea professional RV inspectors existed. Bought a brand new 2022 travel trailer. What a rolling dumpster fire it has been for 8 months. Constant problems. Currently 3.5-4 month wait list to get into closest dealership. Better get in before one year warranty expires. So disappointed in our purchase. Thanks for sharing this info. We could have really benefited from your services and saved us years of misery to come.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

I'm so sorry to hear about your poor RV buying experience Amy. But I really appreciate your sharing what you went through here. Hopefully it will help others as they read through these comments and inspire them to be more aware of what can happen if they don't protect themselves fully during the RV buying process.

[@DebraAW0224]

I am learning so much from this channel. The challenge for me will be to confront pushy dealers. I may be the most no confrontational person in the state! :-)

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Hi Debra. You don't really have to be confrontational with dealers to get treated right. Just know what you want before you arrive, know what you intend to spend, and make sure that they allow you to inspect the RV you intend to buy and get the issues fixed before you take it home. If they agree, then you will most likely have a great buying experience. If they don't, look elsewhere. But all of this can be done with a smile and a friendly attitude.

[@johnstangel8918]

It's funny how people would get 150,000. dollar house that's 30 years old inspected and not even bat an eye but get a 150,000. rig inspected that's newer preposterous. Yet both have the same components, and the same people haven't got a clue on how to work on either. Then all they want to do is complain about it and blame someone when really it's their own fault. I just started watching your videos and I love them. Keep up the great job.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

I hear you John! In fact, if the RV is a motorhome it's even more complicated than a stationary house because it's both a home and a vehicle. But the majority of RV buyers still don't see the need to get an RV inspected before they buy it. And as you say, they complain loud and long about the problems with it when a thorough RV inspection would have uncovered most if not all of their issues before they even took possession of the rig. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject!

[@nataliegist2014]

That is not an excuse quality control should have still been there

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

As I said in the video, I'm not making excuses for them. But I rarely hear anyone try to look at things from the manufacturer's perspective and think about the unique challenges they also faced during Covid. If you don't want to try to be fair about seeing both sides of an issue, that's your right. But this video is an attempt to make the discussion about RV quality during the last few years a little more even-handed.

[@PanHandler57]

What is a great book for new RV'ers to learn everything before buying a RV.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

There are two books that have been created by Marc and Julie Bennett from rvlove.com about RV life and they both are excellent sources of information for especially newer RVers. Here are the links for those books - amzn.to/42esxGa and amzn.to/42sh7y6 I hope that helps Thomas!

[@richardmcphee315]

Great lay down. This should be a mandatory video for all RV owners and purchasers. Great job thanks

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

So glad you enjoyed it Richard. Thanks for leaving such a nice comment!

[@luciechampoux]

I should have listened to this before buying. Bought the brand new Rv last year, paid over $35,000.... I have nothing but problems with this RV . Very disappointed !!!

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

I'm sorry to hear about your RV buying experience Lucie. I hope this video will help you be ready to choose a better RV next time around. All the best to you!

[@doowael]

Quality is NOT a result of process automation. Quality is a result of process design. Until the 90's, automotive quality was very much the same as RV quality is today. The manufacturers built the vehicles, shipped them to the dealers and had the customer identify the quality issues. Then, Toyota and Honda came on the scene and forced the American manufacturers to improve. The RV manufacturer that figures this out will own the industry. However, as long as all manufacturers subscribe to the same quality lethargy, there is no impetus to change.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

I agree that Toyota and Honda changed the culture and mindset that was prevalent in Detroit. But one of the innovations that came out of the foreign car invasion is their reliance on automation. And although that does not inherently lead to quality, it does cut down on the mistakes that are made on the assembly line. My point in the video was not to say that full automation was needed in the RV industry (although it would be nice to start moving in that direction). It was to point out that as long as RVs are basically built by hand as they currently are, the final product will always be at the mercy of events that are sometimes out of our control, like the Covid pandemic. In the meantime, it is not reasonable to hold RV manufacturers to the same high standards of quality that are expected in other industries. Again, I am not saying that RV manufacturers are blameless. There is more than enough blame to go around. And a lot of that blame should be shared by those who sell those products to the public and make unprecedented profits while doing very little to fix the issues that need attention. But to just keep dumping on RV manufacturers alone is not really addressing the problems fairly and equitably.

[@doowael]

@@RVInspectionAndCare Yes, they automated, but their secret weapon was the design and optimization of processes through Failure Mode and Effect Analysis and statistical methods not to mention the Six Sigma methodologies. Blaming the poor delivery quality on the Dealers is narrow minded and short sighted. Regarding placing partial blame on the suppliers is also is also short sighted. The Japanese auto manufacturers would not accept defective parts from suppliers. They also wouldn't accept poor workmanship from one workstation to the next in their internal manufacturing system, shutting the line down until the problem was fixed. The quality system should be focused on improving product quality and reliability, not segregating (unacceptably) poor quality. You would not know different as this is the pond you've been swimming in, so have accepted the group think. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Manufacturing Development Engineer with a major aerospace company involved in introducing lean and six sigma methods at said company, Masters in Total Quality Management, Supplier Quality Engineer, consulted in implementing lean methods, and taught statistical quality control at the university level.

[@doowael]

BTW, I should share the story of the Ford/Mazda transmissions as a case in point. In the 1980's, Mazda was building transmissions for Ford - cheap Japanese labor at the time. Mazda built these transmissions to the exact same engineering design as those that Ford was building. Ford started getting warranty claims agains this transmission and started researching the issue. Ford learned that the warranty claims were all from the Ford-built transmissions and zero were from those built by Mazda. Curious, Ford took a number of their transmissions off the production line, tore them down and measured each part. All were within the engineering specification. They then took the same number of Mazda-built transmissions, tore them down, and measure them. They, too, were within engineering specification. The difference, however, was that the Mazda transmission measurements were more centered on the engineering nominal dimensions - within six standard deviations (six sigma). The Ford transmission dimensions were spread across the tolerance range - commonly referred to as quality "goal posts." This is when Ford started taking statistical process control seriously instead of using their quality department as a reject sorting system. Robots loading machining cells had nothing to do with this. It was the result of process design through statistical process control and failure mode and effect analysis among other things.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

@@doowael Terry, it's clear that you have either completely missed the main points that I was trying to make in the video or you have pre-conceived ideas that cannot be changed by any amount of discussion on the matter. I am always amazed at the people who watch my videos and then try to tell me that I'm all wrong by using examples of things I said that I didn't really say. For instance, I never said that dealers are entirely to blame for the poor quality of RVs being sold. But I did say that they have deliberately performed little to no PDI work in advance of the RV delivery in many cases and therefore they are partly to blame for the situation. So just accusing RV manufacturers of being the sole reason for poor RV quality is, as you said, "narrow minded and short sighted". I also did not assign any "blame" to RV suppliers for quality problems. I simply mentioned it as another example of unusual things the RV manufacturers have had to deal with during the pandemic. Being an engineer does not afford you the vantage point that RV inspectors have in this situation. We see what is really going on. As always, I am careful to say that there are some very good RV dealers who have the interest of the customer as a high priority in the way they do business. But there are way too many RV dealers that are just "turn and burn" operations that have little concern for the buying experience of their customer, just the money they can get out of them in the short-term. The pandemic years have clearly pointed up the shortcomings and failings of the entire current RV industry in stark contrast, even though many of those failings have been present for years before then. And the clear evidence of this is found in the overwhelming number of voices who are unhappy with the RV product that they bought. My video is simply trying to provide a fair assessment of the situation the industry is in and explain how the current RV buyer can still buy an RV and get a product that does not have a laundry list of problems that will require many months of lost time, frustration and irritation spent in the service lines of the RV dealers. If you don't agree with any of this, you are welcome to your opinion.

[@doowael]

@@RVInspectionAndCare Providing paragraph breaks helps to better communicate ideas - just saying. My point regarding PDI was that dealers shouldn't be doing PDI. That is inspecting quality into the product and is akin to closing the barn door after the horses get out. It likely takes 3 times the effort to fix a quality issue at the dealer than it would for the manufacturer to do it right the first time. The product should be right when the dealer receives it. The dealer's job is to sell the RV and develop/maintain customer relationships. Not fix a product that was defective. Per the Japanese automotive model, the dealer should not accept a defective product from the manufacturer. I did not say you accused suppliers s being the sole problem. I simply stated the RV manufacturers should not pass defective supplier parts on to the dealer and, ultimately, the customer. I have been seeing a lot of posts on various RV FB Groups struggling with issues that should never have left the factory. Why wouldn't an RV Dealer devolve into turn and burn? They are MUCH smaller than the factory and have only so many resources with which to fix problems that, again, should never have left the factory. "RV inspectors have in this situation." Again, you are looking at this the wrong way. RV inspectors should not be used to weed out bad product. RV inspectors should be quality personnel that work with the various build stations to identify weaknesses in the "process/product design" and work with manufacturing and engineering to build quality in, not inspect defects out. Yes, you were providing an assessment of the situation the RV industry is in and I am providing a tested and proven alternative. I am not criticizing you. The current RV buyer should not have to be concerned about buying a new RV with a laundry list of items that need to be fixed over months. Seriously, when we buy a $35,000 car, do we have to hire someone to inspect that car to make sure the windshield wipers work? Frankly, we shouldn't need the services of the NRVIA members. A cottage industry has been built up around the fact that an industry does not do the job it was paid to do in the first place. Grand Design has a great reputation because they are attentive in fixing problems after the fact. Seriously? That's the measure? By the way, I didn't address your comment that the quality issues are partly due to the fact that these products are handmade and don't use automation. I have a furniture hand made by Amish and it is perfect. You might sau=y that's different, but is it really? It's just a matter of scale. As I said in my original post, the RV manufacturer that figures this out will OWN the market. Merry Christmas.

[@gwenjames3302]

How do you get an inspection without taking delivery?

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

You make the sale contingent on getting the inspection completed first before the sale is finalized. Since the buyer is paying for the inspection by a certified RV inspector, there is no cost to the seller.

[@johnhuff393]

Good afternoon from Godley Texas, excellent explanation. I agree QUALITY CONTROL can make or break a company.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Glad you enjoyed it John. Let's hope that quality control makes a real comeback in the RV industry soon. Thanks for watching!

[@winstonwainscott8021]

Great perspective and detailed comments.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

I'm glad you enjoyed the video Winston. Thanks for watching!

[@billchesney8949]

If an rv was pdi properly at the factory and at the dealer which is part of what you pay for you wouldn’t have half the problems

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Absolutely true Bill. Let's hope we get to that point soon!

[@rickmessina678]

Sadly My experience with hiring a third party RV inspector recommended by the dealership was a complete waste of $750.00. The inspector never performed the air break test which as it turned out the breaking system had a leak. They also missed that there was an exhaust leak as well. Both issues I discovered on my own inspection. Fortunately Freightliner and Cummins made both repairs under warranty at no cost to me. I bypass the dealerships as much as possible. Engine issues I go direct to Cummins. Trans direct to Allison and Chassis with Freightliner. I hear stories of folks having to wait months for dealerships to make warranty repairs. I make most repairs myself mainly coach and electrical repairs. What I find when making these repairs is that the engineers, designers and builders are most likely not users and certainly have not been tasked to make repairs on these coaches. The location of my battery control center could not be in a more ridiculous location where 10" to the left would have been perfect. the inverter is turned sideways where you have to feel around for the reset button. My new pre-inspections now consist of where are the components located and how difficult will it be for me to fix them. I will say this the Manufacturer who made my coach has an excellent tech service department who when I need technical support from a component that has been installed on the coach they provide that access.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Hi Rick. Sorry to hear that the dealership's recommendation for an RV inspector didn't work out well for you. I always recommend that an NRVIA certified inspector is used to get the best results. And you are wise to try to do as much work on your RV yourself as you possibly can. Roughly 80% of the things that usually go wrong on an RV can be handled by the RV owner with the right guidance. I'm curious though ... what is the name of the manufacturer that has treated you so well with tech support?

[@rickmessina678]

​@@RVInspectionAndCare That would be the REV Group, Fleetwood Division. REV does need to do a much better job with their online parts store. However, the parts department has always been helpful. Should I choose to purchase another RV in the future I would definitely favor Fleetwood because of my experiences with their Tech and Parts personnel. I have had a fair amount of issues with the coach but I am far more disappointed with the amount of issues that I have had with Freightliner and Cummins at only 33,000 miles.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

@@rickmessina678 That's good to know Rick. When someone has a positive manufacturer's experience I like to find out who it was. Thanks for sharing your experience with us!

[@daviscrt]

great information. Right to the point. Thanks Don

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Thanks for the positive feedback Don. And for supporting the channel!

[@TheMamaAmmah]

Do you know if high end luxury RV’s that sell directly to the consumer are having issues with quality as well?

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

That is a great question. The high end luxury manufacturers have been subject to the same issues and problems that high production RV companies have experienced including supply chain issues and workforce problems. But the difference is that they typically build RVs on a much smaller scale than large RV factories. And their profit margins are higher as well. So although they have had many of the same challenges, the higher end companies have been able to handle the situation at least somewhat better than the high production RV builders have. And so you hear much less about major issues coming out of their factories. Having said that, in the current environment, I would highly recommend that an RV buyer get a thorough RV inspection on any RV that they buy, including the higher end brands. Just to be sure!

[@TheMamaAmmah]

@@RVInspectionAndCare thank you. I agree 100%

[@SuperLooneyrooney]

all things considered, do you think it would be "safer" to look for a newer used one pre-2020 vs a new one (of course w an inspection) ?

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

A lot of RV buyers ae doing that now Sam. I think that buying new can still be done successfully if you follow the guidelines I mentioned in this video. But pre-Covid RVs did not have so many issues to begin with. But as you say, an RV inspection is always needed to be sure of the shape any RV is truly in.

[@bentomas2251]

Understand your view here, but blaming the dealer seems like a easy out here. The factory should be expected to deliver a unit that does not need repair. The dealer really should be identifying items that maybe were damaged during delivery-but not items we are hearing about. I work for an OEM of equipment. The past 3yrs have been difficult due to Covid and the fallout of supply chain-but that is why QC exists. QC is only effective when they are able to stop shipment due to an issue. I assume this is not the case else we wouldn’t be blaming the dealer! The real issue here in my opinion is the industry accepts this as a norm. Until it becomes to expensive to continue-it will remain the norm. Seems like a real opportunity for a RV mfg to promote its QC and up its game -there is Always a market for quality -in any market condition. 100% spot on in “you get what you pay for”

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject Ben. I am puzzled though how you could get the impression that I am blaming the dealers alone. I thought I was clear in the video that I think the fault for the current state of the new RV industry is a combination of both manufacturers and dealers not doing their part to make sure that the customer has a positive buying experience. The past couple of years was a uniquely challenging situation. And what I tried to point in the video is that much of the circumstances was beyond the actual control of the manufacturers. It really is hard to turn out products at the level you wish when you don't know from day to day if you will have an experienced or even a capable workforce on the factory floor. But if the factories and the dealers had worked more closely together, the situation would not have gotten so out of hand. It would have required both of them to go above and beyond their normal standard operating procedures to keep the problems faced by consumers to an acceptable minimum. Instead, both RV manufacturers and RV dealers made boatloads of money selling RVs to the public knowing what poor shape they were in. I also personally do not give many RV dealers a free pass here either. Because almost all of them advertise that they perform a thorough and complete pre-delivery inspection before the customer gets their RV to make sure that it is in fully workable condition. And as an RV inspector, I can personally assure you that in many cases there was little if any inspection done as they had promised. I also don't believe that the only responsibility that RV dealers have is to just put new RVs on the line and sell them regardless of what condition they may be in. If they advertise that they deliver a quality RV, that is what they should do. But in many cases during the past year, dealers sold RVs very close to the full MSRP price while doing very little to make the customers buying experience after the sale a pleasant one. I agree with you that wholesale changes are needed going forward. But IMO it is far too convenient to lay all of the blame on the factories alone. The entire industry can and needs to do better.

[@robertroth287]

While I appreciate your insight and advice, I am going to politely disagree. I bought a new Thor Magnitude, which is well above entry level, just as the pandemic started. I expected that a new RV, was supposed to work as advertised. For the money I paid, I don't need to understand or sympathize with the issues that Thor faced during COVID. I expect a quality product and Thor was responsible for delivering it, even if they had to cut production instead of quality. To say they failed is an understatement. My dealer charged me a hefty fee for a PDI, which was poorly performed if it was done at all. I do not feel that it is incumbent upon me to spend more money to check on both of these parties by hiring an independent inspector. I am also tired of the excuse that driving a motorhome is akin to a moving earthquake so "things will break". Not acceptable, RVs should be engineered so that with normal use, things don't break. The way the process works today is that everyone is off the hook except the consumer.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

I am very sorry about the issues that you have faced with your Thor motorhome Robert. I can certainly hear the frustration you have experienced in the comment that you made, and you are not alone in those intense feelings. But this video in no way was defending or excusing what the manufacturers have done during the pandemic. In fact, if you watch the video you'll see that i used a "No Excuses" graphic to emphasize that. I just want to bring some fairness and honesty to the discussion. One of the main points of this video is to respond to those who claim that the manufacturers are nothing but greedy rotten people who deliberately turn out garbage on a regular basis without anyone ever being fair and realizing that they got overwhelmed by circumstances beyond their control in the past couple of years. And admittedly, those circumstances have clearly pointed up the failed approach that RV manufacturers have been taking for years to building and selling RVs. The video also attempts to address those who lay all of the blame at the feet of the manufacturers without even considering that RV dealers are a huge part of the problem. And that the failure of the RV industry is not just the manufacturers fault. Both RV manufacturers and dealers have created this mess that has happened. So the entire industry needs a wakeup call and a change in priorities. In the meantime, I am not saying that everyone MUST get an RV inspection of the new RV they buy before taking ownership of it. I am just saying that given the current set of circumstances, if you want to eliminate the frustration and anger that you have experienced, it is the only way I know of to make sure that happens. Personally, I would happily pay extra to avoid that kind of anxiety. But everyone has to make that decision for themselves as to whether it is worth it to them or not.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

@@Couplescience Hi Kathleen. Thanks for such a nice comment that is well thought out and expressed!

[@getyourfactsstraight2595]

I agree 100%. If they can't make a good product then they shouldn't be making junk. I guess people are truly suckers!

[@LayloNewt]

Great common sense advice.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Thanks so much for watching and leaving such a positive comment!

[@jeffp9522]

I think you misnamed the video..... your comments sound like what a manufacturer would offer as an excuse. To say the quality control problem is due to inexperienced help, while true, does alleviate the responsibility of the manufacturer to step up quality control. All they did was continue at previous levels and put the product out there for the buyer to work with. They should have either tightened quality control or slowed the building process. Supply and demand does not give manufacturers the right to dump products simply because the unknowing public will buy them and then have to wait months for the brand new unit to be useable. This IS the manufacturers fault. Their main concern is money making, not quality. Until the public quits buying the RV junk that is being put out there. I've seen brand new, never titled RV's on the lot that are already delaminating. Unless the buyer is willing to take the time and money to take the dealer/manufacturer to court and wait months or years for a resolution, they are stuck. And saying you need to get an RV inspection before buying is placing quality control on the shoulders of the buyer instead of where it should be, with the manufacturer. And basing quality on the price is passing the buck. The manufacturer should sort out problems prior to putting it out the door instead of screwing the public. I'm sorry but your comments sound as though you are a spokesperson for the manufacturer. You don't expect to have to take your brand new car to have it inspected prior to purchase, you don't have a final inspection of your house that you just built (again, quality control is assured by the various zoning agents), so when you are paying more than a car, almost as much as a house, why should you expect to have it inspected prior to purchase? Your comments really make viewers wonder who's side you are really on.

[@RVInspectionAndCare]

Jeff, You are entitled to your opinion. But I don't think you listened to the video with an open mind and heard what I was actually trying to say. And clearly, you must not be a regular follower of this channel. Because if you were, you would know that I call things the way I see them. I do not shill for anyone, certainly not for RV manufacturers. In fact, in the video I said clearly that I was not trying to make excuses for the manufacturers as they have made some very bad decisions in the past decade that has not been a benefit for RV buyers. But to ignore all the issues they have had to deal with in the last couple of years since Covid that is totally unprecedented, is not being fair in any way either. You conveniently didn't mention the fact that the dealers were screaming to have inventory for them to sell to meet the incredibly high demand from Covid buyers. And if the factories had not done their best to try to meet the expectations and demands of both dealers and consumers, they would likely have gone out of business or lost significant market share to those who did step up production. You can rant and rave all you want about the unfairness of the RV industry right now and if it makes you feel better to do that, go right ahead and do it. But the truth is that the fault for the current situation lies both with manufacturers AND dealers. RV inspectors are the boots on the ground in this situation and we see a ton of things that many RV dealers do that is a very poor way to treat their customers. And as I said in the video, RV dealers have made a windfall in the past couple of years through RV sales. If they truly cared about the products they sold, they could have easily hired extra help to perform real quality PDIs and make sure the units were in usable shape before being sold. But that rarely happened. And as far as inspections are concerned, I agree that they should not be necessary on a new RV. But that doesn't change the fact that if you want an RV that works the way it should from day 1 in the current environment, you need to use all the tools at your disposal to make that happen. And an RV inspection can do that as long as you hold the dealers feet to the fire afterward and make them fix the problems that were found in the inspection before you take delivery. You can be upset about the situation all you want, but just dumping on RV manufacturers does not make it better. There is a need to understand that the whole RV industry, including many dealers, needs to up its game. The events of the past couple of years has brought that need into sharp focus for those willing to see it as it is. And in the meantime, an RV inspector is your best protection against having a poor RV buying experience.

[@markcowart6887]

You might have been trying to say something different but it is what I heard as well….