New SRAM...A pointless extra cog

[@erlendsteren9466]

I have 2x Shimano GRX with 30-46 and 11-34 cassette.The jumps between gears are very small and I often shift two gears when gearing. The gearshifting is very smooth. I am going to upgrade the cassette to 11-42 enabling to climb steep hills easy at speeds around 5 and 6 km/h with reasonably low pulse. My weight is above 100 kg. Light climbers (80kg?) might be very happy with 11-34 cassette.

[@JFomo]

They should have gotten rid of the 10 tooth and put the extra cogs somewhere up higher.

[@johndef5075]

All because they cant make a front derailleur 😅

[@frediabolo]

32mm hookless rims with race king tyres is going to be fun for sidewall punctures.

[@nellyx1x493]

£3500 for a groupset. That will sell well in the UK. Gave up being excited by having an extra cog at 10spd gen...Would rather have big legs, than need big cogs. Yet another invention by the industry that serves the consumer fetishists rather than aids the experienced rider.

[@MapdecVodcast]

Aye. Its not so much that but it ruins a logical repair, replace, upgrade path you can do as and when required.

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

In the UK that extra gear will be lambasted by the Labour party as being positioned on the "far right"...and probably built by thugs.

[@kidsafe]

Full-mount derailleurs allow SRAM to offset the cassette outboard by an additional 2.5mm. That means they only have to cantilever the largest cog by an additional 2.5mm over the spokes. With a 46t cog, this will not be a problem at all. In addition it seems very likely that existing MTB Transmission RDs will be firmware updated to 13-speed, meaning all previous Transmission owners only need to buy a new cassette to upgrade to 13-speed (and an XDR freehub body.)

[@alexdi1367]

SRAM has never expanded the capabilities of their derailleurs. Why would you think they would do it for 13?

[@kidsafe]

@@alexdi1367 because a birdie told me

[@Whyusadd]

At this rate let’s just install CVT transmission

[@raphindahouse]

bought the ekar for my girlfriends bike. Biggest mispurchase I made so far. For me personally, adding the 12 is perfect. Currently I ride the mullet setup with the 50-10 and a 40 chainring and I am missing the finer steps. But I am currently riding more fast stuff.

[@kubackjeee]

Because you actually ride bikes and know stuff, not like mapdick who's a mamil and a clown

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Ekar stinks because it's Campy. Shimano and SRAM will both have mechanical 13sp at some point and it'll actually work

[@SenorBeanGrouse]

I always hated the lack of 1 tooth jumps on the high end of the cassette on XPLR. The new Red XPLR is far more pleasant to ride at higher speeds on the road, with much less gear searching over 24mph. It is the best shifting I've ever experienced from any brand, and the quietest SRAM group I've ever ridden. I did not even have to do one microshift adjustment after installation. IMO, SRAM knocked it out of the park. Would be nice to have 10-40 for road and 10-50 for more aggro gravel, but part of the reason the shifting is so amazing is that they optimized the derailleur geometry for one cassette.

[@squngy0]

A bigger range would have been better, but if for some reason you want to keep the range the same, then it makes sense to add a 12t. Jump from 11t to 13t is over 15%, so even though it is just one tooth difference, the gap is not insignificant.

[@marcowalther7867]

I feel you were too quick to call this out. Installed it yesterday and have to say: best shifting performance I have ever experienced. Not the tiniest sound from the chain too. Also, the new way of installation is just wonderful. The addition of the 12 s cog completely changes the way I can spin. And: it is super expensive. Yes, but so is Dura Ace and hardly anybody complains about that. Prices will come down and soon, there will be a Force and Rival version of that system.

[@naf2579]

Dunno my Red 22 still has 9 more gears than this new group. I just didn't see the issue with 2x.

[@PeakTorque]

So this new Red Xplr 13 is not compatible with the new Red axs road? That is such a pain! Great podcast gents. I have pulled a workbench over trying to get a dt ratchet ring out 😂

[@MapdecVodcast]

You need new mech and cassette. You can’t just use a 12sp if you have to for whatever reason like you can with wheel top etc. PS, use an impact wrench. Out in seconds, no stress. Right tools for the job. 👍

[@NimrodGilAd]

I guess the space for the extra gear comes by putting the biggest sprocket inward towards the center. That's probably why we won't see 13 speed cassettes on road bikes soon (at least not from the big 3)

[@MapdecVodcast]

I think you are right. I think they got the 13th in by expanding over the spokes and that wouldn’t work with smaller blocks.

[@VQ30TLJ]

Actually others are reporting that the new derailleur mount, which removes the hanger, is what allows the extra gear on the same freehub.

[@NimrodGilAd]

I've not seen it up close yet, so I can't say for sure, but I guess the main limitation is the space between the frame and the spokes (since they've kept the same chain & sprocket width), so the UDH is not a solution, but a "floating" 13th sprocket sure is

[@VQ30TLJ]

The jump from 11 to 13 tooth on the 12-speed Force XPLR is actually super annoying (v large percentage change). The new group fixes this, although they could fix it in a 12s groupset too.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Unbound in 2024 had 4,685 racers registered. Think about that. Here in the US, Gravel is huge and growing - its the fastest growing cycling segment in the US. My local cycling club has flipped from Grand Fondos and Crits to more Gravel events in the past few years. This is XPLR and its first and foremost a gravel groupset. Personally - I think the new 303 gravel wheels from ZIPP are the most profound product intro

[@MapdecVodcast]

For sure! And it’s growing here too. Imagine how much faster SRAM could grow into this niche if they offered a much easier upgrade path.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@MapdecVodcast SRAM is a typical American Company - hard charging, risk taking, innovative. Customer service and support is underwhelming to exasperating. Sadly, they are not nearly as organized and refined and supportive as Shimano typically is. SRAM can have parts supply and manufacturing problems. They’re kinda spread out - headquarters in Chicago, Engineering in Germany, production in Taiwan.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@@MapdecVodcast everyone adds a cog with their highest end groupset first. This is nothing new. SRAM is doing fine and taking more market share every year

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@@petersouthernboy6327I strongly disagree running tons of warranties for everyone. SRAMANO were both great... until Shimano's crank debacle

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@veganpotterthevegan that’s a good point 👍. It also explains why I run a Rival Crankset with a Force rear derailleur. Just not very trusting of bonded cranks.

[@cbenson513]

I'd take it vs my current 10-14 12spd Crux rides. I'd have a more road-like small cog setup for my local group rides and also get a wider range when I hit the steeps. Pricey, as al ltop groupsets are. It'll likley trickle down to lower groups as more UDH road/gravel compatible frames are released.

[@TryHardCycling]

All 2025+ Crux are UDH now! They just aren't really advertising it on the non s-works models.

[@chrissingleton7801]

I’ve been running an SRAM xplr hack for nearly 30,000km no wear issues or any other problems, super rough single track to smooth fast gravel, 48/35 on the front with a wide mech and xplr 10/44 rear with a Ceramic Speed OSPW cage, solves any shifting issues and helps in very muddy situations, a K-Edge chain catcher on the inside, set the front mech so it very just of touching on the inner and the outer stops, 4.8-.79 range

[@abhimawa1]

13:09 → spot on. Some manufacturers try to win the market by releasing products with insufficient R&D, and at the same time, let the FOMO customers pay their next R&D for the current flawed ‘state of the art’ (marketing hype, here). The greed of some manufacturers kills this industry by itsellf as they can actually focus on how to manufacture things more efficiently & charge the customers less for tried & true system. Also, I believe the major hype of the 1x was pioneered by the company that cannot get the front derailleur working perfectly. 14:54 → VB is still active. His team, Sauber, is incompetent of providing fast. & reliable car to drive (more management turmoil than performance focus. Forget the performance, the wheel nuts were even faulty by design). Perhaps, you may want to pay attention to Carlos Sainz. He’s got himself an SL8 & rode with Pogi in Monaco 👌

[@MapdecVodcast]

F1 drivers for product testers !

[@jazemkrzysio]

I don't know how pointless is 1x13, but... I'm not going to change anything for My setup, until... 2x13 availability. I'm well in my 60s, and I was born much weaker than my twin sister. But, although I produce around 100W average on 6-12 hrs rides, I love road riding in the mountains. The higher the better. So, currently I'm on earliest SRAM Red eTap. Which is 11S. To accomodate it to my expectations, I use 11-26S cassettes with 12 and 14T cogs replaced by 30, 34T combo to match the range I need, with small steps where I need them most frequently. 52, 36 chainrings. However I love all those faster sections as well, so, I'd be happy to bring my 12, 14 cogs back. However I'm not going to spent massive money for 12S equipment to get only half what I need.

[@adamhindle9215]

Jake nails it straight off the bat....'everything looks good but why 13?' XPLR is currently 12 and works really well (I use XPLR Force). They just needed to add a 'transmission' style mech to the line up and everything would be great. Instead they've isolated Red with 13. There's nothing I can upgrade my Force with, unless I change the lot. Odd.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

If it could work well with 15sp, I'd gladly take it. *I think there's a good chance that the more recent 12sp AXS will get firmware updates that allow for use with 13sp. Especially with SRAM knowing that people like me and thousands of others will buy Ratio Technology's SRAM 13sp ratchet as soon as they make it available.

[@PaulFrost35]

The thing that many people comment negatively about XPLR is "why not just use an Eagle mech and 10-52 cassette". But XPLR has been optimised for speed of shifting, and Eagle T type is optimised for electric MTBs where shifting under huge load is common and so the speed of shifting is much slower than XPLR. Unfortunatly I don't have a massive FTP (about 210) so I need the 52 occasionally and so might have to put up with the slower shifting.

[@michaelmechex]

Is Ekar really that bad? I was tempted when I saw it for a Tiagra price second hand, but that's probably why. I agree that adding that 12t cog is odd for gravel, it's almost like it was designed to be THE road bike 1x cassette to end all front derraileurs, but they weren't bold enough to advertise it as such.

[@MapdecVodcast]

@@michaelmechex yeah. Ekar is a constant battle. It is super sensitive to even the slightest misalignment or cable friction. And the cassette creaks like mad. Campag actually released a tech doc bodge fix that then caused freehubs to split.

[@michaelmechex]

@@MapdecVodcast wow, that's way worse than I thought. I wonder how is Campagnolo staying in business these days.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@michaelmechex it's really the same issues with Campy 12sp. The margin of error is just proportionally bad. Even Campy 11 needed adjustments far more regularly than SRAM and Shimano

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

13 speed is so old school, Rohloff has had 14 speed since 1998. XC inner rim size has pretty much standardised at 30mm for 2.4 tyres and I was thinking that XC is the new gravel.

[@MapdecVodcast]

We might get to a point where the weight disadvantage of a Rohloff is negligible compared to all these extra cogs.

[@rosomak8244]

@@MapdecVodcast And the bent chain rub is about as inefficient as the gearbox.

[@briannyob7799]

For gravel, I run Apex 12 speed mechanical with a GX MTB derailleur and Sunrace 11-50 cassette. This gives me plenty of range and is super simple.

[@hockysa]

I mean 13 speed seems great if I’m running 1x Don’t know how well it actually works though.

[@artoutlawphoto]

the 13 speed cog goes between the derraileur and cassete. Its exactly like t-type xd, or hg. The cassettes will not work with the hanger installed it will not fit, only with the derrailauer.

[@Stannystansfield]

Wasn’t it SRAM who said you only need 14 sprockets at the back to overcome the duplication of gears on a 2x set up? Isn’t 13 just further advancement to what SRAM see as the ultimate setup? This is the first time I’ve felt that my allegiance to Shimano is waning… Come on Shimano step up to the plate

[@michaelmechex]

I was curious, so I put it into a gear calculator. This has pretty much identical gear range as Shimano 2x with 11-34 cassette. Jumps between the gears are very similar up until the last 4 cogs as well, because realistically, you're not going to shift your front derraileur up and down all the time for those overlapping gears. I'd ride this on a road bike no problem

[@hamishgrant2563]

It was Rotor who talked about the 14 useable gears in a 2x system. When they released their 1x13 groupo. The ratio gaps on their cassettes work pretty well

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@michaelmechex ditto. Nailed it 🏆

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Shimano has a very old, 14sp patent they created even before they made a 11sp patent.

[@talldude8155]

I think Shimano knows that some of these trends, like wireless shifting, are more about looking cool than being truly functional. At the end of the day, they’re pointless. I even get the sense that Shimano isn’t that into the whole 1x12 craze-they don’t seem to care much. Their 2x11 drivetrains were extremely good, but it seems the public is more interested in what's trendy rather than what actually works well.

[@pandatactical4530]

💯 SRAM Transmision 12 Speed mullet setup!

[@TheMirrorVision]

Wanted to get your thoughts on that Time bike in the background: if someone needs to run that many spacers do you think they are on the right bike? Surely an endurance oriented frame would be a better and more natural ergonomic fit?

[@MapdecVodcast]

It’s just like that ready for thier bike fit day. Note the hoses are not attached. The rider will come in for a final fit where we will then cut the steerer and hoses to suit. Until then we just fit loads of spacers so the stem is not clamped on hollow tube. Hope that settles your mind.

[@gdamjan]

The aluminium Crux DSW also has UDH already

[@joehiatt1992]

When they run out of ideas the GO TO is to add a cog, they hit the wall with components & bike material,u either get a aero frame or regular,then theirs mech or electronic shifting thats it,they do weird shapes with stupid claims of 5% this 10 % that & its all sales BS to sell bikes,just pick a brand or a paint job because theres really no diff.

[@MapdecVodcast]

Yeah. I might modify that slightly. Pick a geometry, a brand with a level of accountability you are happy to pay for, and a colour.

[@rosomak8244]

The most important part of a bike is still the frame. Nothing changed in that regards during the last 100 years. Picking one that is well fitting is the most important part of buying a bike. Those days additionally you have to be careful to get one that allows to fit just semi-standard components too. Personally I would recommend anyone to start with the cheapest of the shelf bike possible disregard of the components and to setup the geometry in a way that is a good fit. A 200 - 300 $ bike will do. Based on that you can then go online and buy something better later.

[@out_spocken]

I am not buying another bike till it's 15 speed lol people are gullible muppets. Let's pay more for something even more flimsy.

[@MapdecVodcast]

I’m betting 9 speed makes a comeback before we see 15.

[@andrewc662]

It would have been nice if they made it an option to use a 12 speed Eagle cassette. Wheeltop can make a derailleur that can change cassette sizes, it's just software and cage size.

[@MapdecVodcast]

You can do that already with an eagle mech. But I totally agree it would be nice to switch the mech into 12 or 13sp

[@rosomak8244]

1x13?! The poor chain almost always bent and rubbing. You need psychological violence to convince me that that is a more efficient and durable setup than a simple 2x8 setup. On top of that you have a price tag that is a mental impediment certification for anyone actually buying that.

[@MapdecVodcast]

The weird thing about cycling is that it’s enjoyed at every level. Kids in the street to F1 drivers in Monaco. Where’s there’s a buyer there’s a product.

[@batbawls]

I’m holding out for 16 speed with ESP shifting.

[@MapdecVodcast]

With nano technology chains and AI Microshift.

[@msheron]

I believe the industry has gone way too far with gearing and their adding to the gear bank! I don't know how narrow of a chain they ultimately think they can get away with before the integrity is compromised. I really think the narrow cassettes and tight tolerances have been pushed about as much as they can. After a 13th gear what is next......14, 15???? I went from a 10 gear to a 12 gear and that is only because I rode a bike that was twelve years old and came with a 10-speed gear and when time to get a new bike 12 was readily on the market. I currently ride a SRAM 10-36 with a 46/33 front as I came from a 50/34 compact with a maybe 11-32 rear???? Not really sure. My point being that SRAM new gearing being a compromise to climbing and flats has worked well for me.

[@VeselenyiVlado]

are u sure UDH is better? i was fixig 3 hangers between me and my friends just this year cause we all hit them, will the cage give here or what? these electric ones are quite expensive

[@MapdecVodcast]

UDH is actually a good design and awesome that more and more brands are using it. These mechs actually remove the UDH and mount directly to the frame.

[@VeselenyiVlado]

@@MapdecVodcast excuse me, i got it wrong, then this direct mount is not an issue ? i would be woried i break the derailleur

[@petersouthernboy6327]

UDH is awesome. Shifts better, too.

[@Tarmaccyclocross]

Pointless 1x

[@rafacycle]

I would actually get new crux 10r frame put rival axs and mullet new udh eagle 10-52 cassette. Great setup great bike in probably half of the price of the bike with new sram red.

[@MapdecVodcast]

Yeah. Although wait until that lever design trickle down to rival. It will be superb for gravel and cross

[@rafacycle]

For sure it would be the best option. Thanks for the video guys 👍

[@dcv9460]

It's not pointless - it gives you the range and with minimal gear jumps 😎

[@MapdecVodcast]

At this point the jumps are like changing your cadence from 88 to 92 or something. It’s a tiny subjective difference.

[@dcv9460]

@@MapdecVodcast I'm a leisure biker and don't mind the gap. 😎👍

[@Rusty-Metal]

The gear jumps are ridiculously small already. A ploy to sell more shit.

[@barrowsworm1226]

@@MapdecVodcast Disagree. Right now I am on Shimano GRX 12 speed 1x, with an XTR 10-45 cassette. There is one jump which is too big on this cassette for efficient riding. Comparing the two cassettes, I can see that this new 13 speed set up solves my issue. Is this a huge difference??? No, of course not, but it is a meaningful enhancement for my riding and racing. The 10-46 range is about perfect for everything which is gravel, with the possible exception of riding a gravel bike in MTB terrain. BTW, I love in Colorado, USA with real mountains, and gear range, along with with real;atively closely spaced steps is important to being able to ride efficiently on long climbs.

[@h1n1worm]

​@@Rusty-Metal rly? 10% vs 20%... twice actually. have you ever tried to ride a group with grx cassette?

[@doctorscoot]

re: stock … it’s a huge issue. i’ve spent the morning yesterday looking for a new set of chainrings for shimano 11 speed (JFC hardly exotic) and i cannot find stock online that’s shippable to me! i can find some stock but never in the right size. it’s infuriating. however when i saw all the channels with the now un-embargoed video releases on the SRAM 13 speed i really did just roll my eyes.

[@MapdecVodcast]

It’s utter madness. SRAM have really misread market demands.

[@doctorscoot]

@@MapdecVodcast the chain ring attachment on the SRAM - while eliminating the power meter issue - brings yet another standard into play as well. I do have to say the original problem _that_ is solving also appears to be a tremendous oversight on their part. Furthermore I worry how much of this stuff is protected by patents, which will prevent third parties from providing cheaper replacement parts.

[@James-zu1ij]

The internet; it will never catch on.

[@endtimeslips4660]

i wondering if any brand create front cog pivot. kind a mechanism can move front chain ring side to side reduce chain crossing

[@MapdecVodcast]

I have never seen that. I guess you mean a floating chainring

[@endtimeslips4660]

@@MapdecVodcast yes that i mean. if someone make it probably cross chain problem can be reduce

[@rosomak8244]

You can have it today by mounting same size chainrings on a 2x front derailleur. Looking at the recent stupidity of the bike industry I'm seriously waiting for that to be sold as the next big "innovation".

[@joehart3826]

Good/top informative podcast, but you could do with explaining the acronym UDH. As you say at the start, things need describing more.

[@MapdecVodcast]

@@joehart3826 thanks. Universal Derailuer hanger.

[@joehart3826]

On a podcast people can't Google typically at the same time

[@luzikedy1]

I think Dylan is tied to Reynold wheels, so I doubt he talks about new zipp wheels on his channel.

[@valmorell]

By going 13 speed, the size difference between the bigger cogs reduces, which in turn reduces the load on the hanger when shifting.

[@MapdecVodcast]

@@valmorell except all they did was introduce a 12t and there is no hanger. It’s direct mount to the frame.

[@Flexo_l]

I would put this on my road bike 😎

[@MapdecVodcast]

Me too.

[@SonnyDarvishzadeh]

1:25 be careful with what you say publicly. They might come after you.

[@smithandshortdogs]

I don't think this version of 13 speed will work on mtb... The xdr casette is about 1.6 mil wider than the xd. Seems like sram had to do some magic to make the 13 fit on road... not sure if they are going to be able to find that extra couple mills on a mtb... Unless superboost... dished wheel... xdr driver...

[@MapdecVodcast]

Sadly I think you are right. Expect a new freehub standard.

[@mister_ray]

Shimano still does not even have a 12 speed electronic MTB group set.

[@joehart3826]

£600 for a cassette, wow 😮

[@MapdecVodcast]

@@joehart3826 mental.

[@petef15]

Unjustifiable price.

[@WannaJumpBikes]

Even 12 speed is expensive, very overpriced

[@ramsden35]

“It works out about £270 a speed” hahaha

[@jamble7k]

i bet it's because shimano already did a 10-45 12 speed😂

[@natheirabu-dahab1446]

I don’t understand why people are complaining that there’s a thirteenth cog now… what’s the problem with having an extra gear? It’s not like SRAM would’ve made this group set any cheaper if it was 12 speed and it’s still compatible with the 12 speed chain and chainrings which is not something they had to do. The worst it makes sense to feel about a thirteenth cog is indifference imo

[@MapdecVodcast]

It’s more that it ruins a clear, repair, replace Upgrade decision. Because we now have to slowly wait for this to roll out to Force, rival, apex, Xx1, xo1,GX, NX. Sram can’t keep track of thier current stock and now they introduced more complexity. They could have really read the market better and made AXS the true unified groupset.

[@ahhalla]

what bike is in the background

[@MapdecVodcast]

Time Alp D Heuez- X with SRAM Red and custom wheels

[@fusionlabs6215]

This is the perfect groupset!! Adding 2 teeth to the dinner plate gives you 2 more teeth for the chainring, making you 4.5% faster at higher speeds while retaining the 1:1 ratio for steep climbs. I'm hoping the 13th speed is filling the 12 tooth cog that I miss the most in XPLR. Fingers crossed they do this for Force as well.

[@MapdecVodcast]

😂

[@johnwardle9667]

The bike industry is horrible

[@MapdecVodcast]

I’m beginning to believe that