11 Pro bike aero test from Cycling News

[@ambulowan]

What do they even mean by adjusting for Bikefit? That a person will sit at the same head height? Even if they do this they would have to adjust the arm angle so it's always difference. This difference alone could explain why the SL8 suddenly becomes the "best" in that it's just the smallest bike with the most aggressive position. Same goes for without a rider. The Look could just be the biggest bike in the Size 56/M range.

[@Gufolicious]

I dont get why they included "bike only section" when its clear that the "bike+rider" part is the only one that matters and the sl8 wins. incase you guys dont want to go through the process of registering.

[@PeakTorque]

Yaw greater than 10 deg in reality is extremely rare if you’re riding over 35kmh. Have countless data points on pitot tube sensors to prove this! Most common is 0-6 deg. These CdA figures id guess are all slight variations in body position, bar width. Cant really compare i think its been a wasted test apart from the bike only bit, which again is slightly pointless 😢

[@BMD8]

Is it possible that once a wiggling, pedalling rider is on the bike it's truly much of a muchness anyway? Is there any possibility of the riders legs creating a slight bow wave that really undoes most aero shaping of the bike aft of the head tube? Also, would have been interesting to add a test with a control aero wheelset for all the bikes.

[@jossemckenney]

Can you please look into releasing these on podcast players? I’d love to listen in on my rides 😊

[@MapdecVodcast]

They are on all of them. Spotify, Amazon, Apple 👍

[@CerveloS5rider]

Not had any problems (so far) with my Ostro V2. The paint is really high quality, I’ve done over 3000 miles so far and it has no chips. My old S5 was chipped all over the place after same mileage. With the Ostro you can buy frame only but much better value to buy full bike. However, a full bike is still a custom build, you select everything even down to seat post offset. FYI The Ostro has custom cages included in the price. However they were on back order, mine came 4 months after getting the bike so interesting if the test used custom or not.

[@matthewthomas5113]

Interesting how cheap Giants are in Australia compared to the UK. The Propel tested is $14,999AUD which converts 7728 GBP according to google. That is well over 4000 GBP cheaper in Australia than the UK. Insane.

[@kroy45]

All bikes are expensive in the UK

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

I paid in order to review the results. I geek out over this stuff. An interesting test for sure. Along with my own testing and reviewing nearly all published aero tests, I have formulated a pretty accurate conclusion of individual components. If the baseline Trek Emonda had aero wheels, that would net atleast 5-6 watts easily, and if it had an aero handlebar that would be another 5-6 watts as well. Therefore creating a 5-6 watt loss for just the frame alone being non-aero. With an aero bottle, very well could equal the front runners. I believe these differences are most important in a TT with higher speeds. In road races, it really boils down to what you like, confidence level, etc.

[@xuchenglin6256]

Thank you! But did you check the "Tour" test? I remember somewhere the Emonda performs pretty bad even with standardized wheels (ZIPP 404), the top performers are like 210 watts or less but the Emonda is something like 235... It's so big that I somehow remembered it (other cheaper bikes performs better, just this Emonda a anomaly). With all those "knowledge" I just changed to a narrow aero handlebar (already on deep wheels) and be done with it. Currently on an adjustable stem to explore the handlebar height less than -17 would allow to see if there's magic somewhere. 🤣

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

@xuchenglin6256 yes, Emonda does test very poorly. So do a handful of other non-sculpted aero frames. However, look how the SL8 with rider tested faster than an S5 and Aeroad... In tour's test, those two aero bikes are nearly 10 watts faster than the SL8, but also, it is at 5kmh faster than this test. And with a rider on the bike. I definitely think there is an interaction with an upper body, too as Tour does not test this. Only legs.

[@chris_gb_]

Haven't watched this vid yet, but if it's not mentioned, Escape Collective have an article up discussing Parcours Velo's aero tyre testing. Only (very) briefly skimmed it, but it looks like the big differences are at high yaw angles, so probably very relevant to most of us who are only 2-3 W/kg and not routinely riding at ≥45 km/h.

[@civilian36vf]

What was thw resolution on the crack in the seatstay on the Factor? I have a crack in the seat stay on mine as well on the non drive side just past the BB and the bike shop thinks its just in the paint, but maybe related to a seam in the underlying layup. Ive certnainly notice no change in the rude quality, but curious to hear what you guys found.

[@MapdecVodcast]

They are replacing the frame.

[@civilian36vf]

@@MapdecVodcast thanks for the reply. Curious, was it a vertical crack non driveside as well? Wondering if I should just follow up with Factor even though the bike store said it's likely fine. Thanks again.

[@eddysobieralski8075]

When you buy one, Ostro VAM is essentially custom build - there is no off-the-shelf build.

[@bradlandry2426]

Having varying handlebar widths immediately makes this test useless. I get the point of testing the bikes with their house brand wheels (sort of), but not having the same width bars for the test is going to skew the results significantly.

[@junkailu5450]

I don't know if the pricing is insanely high in UK/US? I can build a Cannondale SSE Lab71 with 8.1k GBP in Sinapore, with all top end components, on lab71 frame, vision wheelset and dura-ace groupset(crankset changed to red), and ofc with a power2max powermeter

[@MapdecVodcast]

Yep. Brexit was great.

[@EmmanuelNataf]

Any idea how much of the CdA difference is internal cable routing and flat handlebar vs their baseline bike?

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

Internal cables are negated by disc brakes, so becomes a wash. Aero handlebar is easily 6 watts.

[@goodeggnoggs]

Think i'll stick with my 7kg 10y/o 65mm rim Focus Izalco that i built up for £1500!😄

[@matthewthomas5113]

If you look at the Power at 40km/h with 'rider on', there is only a 3w difference between all bikes excluding the Look and the 2015 Emonda ALR. The similar aero test Cycling News did with helmets had a much larger difference. There was a 10w difference at 40km/h between Giro Eclipse Spherical and POC Ventral(Giro faster).

[@valmorell]

This year, I have ditched my deep section wheels and gone back to 'traditional' rims. They may be slower, MAY be, but I don't like the vague handling from the constant pressure rise and drop across deep section in the real world. It's not dangerous or anything, just odd. Maybe if I was a racer it would be different but those days are long gone for me.

[@gregmorrison7320]

The biggest gains are going from a box section to a 35mm wheel, after that any further aero gains are margingal, you might want to try some, they don't get blown about at all.

[@inntw4889]

They’re definitely slower.

[@vincesorrentino7871]

I wonder why the V4RS was not included since all the Wins it had this Year?

[@christophertan3195]

They didn't send their sample Bike

[@chris_gb_]

We, and Colnago, all know it's going to do badly in aero testing. iirc Colnago make their marketing claims that it's all about carbon layup and maximising efficiency of reducing rider fatigue vs power transfer. Maybe everything they say is true, but as @ChrisMIllerCycling / Nero Show put it: _it's a glorified climbing bike._

[@Antoine_Frs]

The Colnago has been tested by Tour Magazin and did pretty bad. Where most pro peloton bikes stack up between 203 and 209 W, the V4RS was at 221 W with the Enves, which to my knowledge are amongst the very best performing wheels.

[@christophertan3195]

@@Antoine_Frs well the new tests of cycling news debunks the tour in a way.. SL8 tests fastest with rider on and it's roundish tubes

[@Antoine_Frs]

I’ll really have to check the article then. It’s not that surprising though, the SL8 is only 6 W / 3% away from the fastest bikes in Tour. The tubes are actually extremely thin when you see them in the flesh, I don’t know about the V4RS.

[@chris_gb_]

re wheels: I don't know how the Cervelo/Reserve data looks overall in the test, but to my mind the Reserve wheels have for a while looked like the most contemporary design from the mainstream brands. Roval, getting a bit long in the tooth now? They have the wide external but the internal is relatively narrow compared to some. DT Swiss looks pretty archaic with 20mm internal, the GRC gravel wheels actually look closer to what I might expect from a modern race wheel. I guess the GRC is probably weighing in a little heavy, but at least it has a 24mm internal. 3T is not a brand I lust after, but they may be one of the innovators at this moment, Discus 45 | 40 is a gravel wheel, but optimised for 35-40mm tyres. Does feel like this is the direction road and all road is going, even if the number of compatible frames is quite limited as of 2024. Heart over head, love the Campangolo wheels the most, Bora Ultra C23 is just about passable. Love the Hyperon looks as well, but it's very narrow, so again might look at the Levante gravel version as a more useful real world compromise. Parcours Velo interests me, though is speaking in money no object terms I think the weights look a bit high now, internal widths a bit narrow, and I'm a bit disappointed they do hookless, even if it is for their gravel specific wheels. Would love to know if the quality is good and if their hubs are up to snuff.

[@MapdecVodcast]

Yeah, i would agree with that. I think Parcours just use Bitex hubs rebranded. I wish they would say, because they dont list spares.

[@kpizzle1985]

I've got a set of Parcours Chrono and have put 4,000 miles on them, not a huge amount but so far so good. Not got a lot to compare them to but they are a lot faster than my Light Bicycle AR56 and going by Hambini's (old) wheel test they were pretty fast. I did briefly have a set of Scribe Core 70s, they weren't as fast as my Parcours and in any slight side wind above 10mph their performance dropped off massively. The Parcours go brilliantly in all winds that the UK throws up, I use them as my sole road wheels and ride them all year round.

[@lovemesomedetail]

17:48 long hair cap guy knows his way around the substance market 🤫

[@MapdecVodcast]

I'll keep an eye on Jake.

[@nigelwilkinson-xg9us]

Longhair cap guy 😂😂😂

[@petersouthernboy6327]

We’ve come to realize that wheelsets and rider position / fit may be more influential than the Frameset for most cyclists.

[@debelifratar]

I bet most riders would drastically benefit if they would learn how to ride in group in an efficient way rather than relying on tests that simulate tt situations.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@debelifratar I see many more riders in twos than “groups”. The most reliable groups in my area are sponsored by local bike clubs. I personally would rather ride by myself in low traffic areas.

[@chris_gb_]

Having finally caught up on this, results are sort of predictable, but no less interesting regardless. Still don't know what I would do with a lottery win, still really like the look of Pinarello and Factor, but TIME and LOOK still by far top of the pile for carbon quality, so wishing/hoping for them to manage to catch up on all the R&B and contemporary package details they need.

[@MapdecVodcast]

I honestly think the Look just needed 40cm handlebars and it would be fine.

[@chris_gb_]

Pinarello specific question: if you've seen enough of them, are the 'MyWay' custom paint jobs just as poop as the standard editions? I don't know if they're all painted in Italy, but rubbish paint is a one of the many complaints routinely lodged against Italian cars and bikes, obviously including Pinarello. On the Paceline forum there are threads where they talk about Stelbel, they look beautiful but the paint apparently chips if you look at it cross eyed, and some people speculate the problem is EU rules on the composition of paint, but I'm not convinced. Italian luxury cars going back at least as far as the 70s and 80s were notorious for dreadful paint quality. If you're disposable income rich enough for a £6K+ frame, maybe the best choice is normally going to be a ready to paint edition and take it to a specialist paint shop. There are so many custom builders just in the UK offering stunning paint jobs, I do wonder if they are more robust and higher quality to justify the extra expense.

[@MapdecVodcast]

the custom paint jobs are usually worse than the factory ones. They just don't mask off and remove overspray like they should.

[@DPbike]

Interesting results! The Corima wheels, I agree. However, you can feel a difference with them using a Conti aero 111 tyre fitted on the front. I have compared 3 tires now, a 'normal' Conti 28mm 5000 STR, a 29mm aero 111 and a 26mm aero 111. The least twitchy and fastest feeling is the aero 26mm. Actual speed difference is really hard to tell though. According to my power meter I needed on average 3 watts less power, for the same average speed (20mph), over a test 18 mile course (some 3% climbs but mostly flat) for the aero 111 26mm compared to the Conti 28mm STR. For details my bike is an XS, 40cm bars and I am 1m 65cm and I a Trek RSL bottle and cage fitted. Quality of the bike overall and the ride quality, are top class! Again without giving much away, the Blade has very interesting rider + yaw angle data, with distinct variations in the two runs. Something a bit iffy with that data I would suggest. It's only £1 to get all the data, and you can then cancel the subscription if you like. p.s. I have asked you guys to let me know as soon as you can get a set of 38cm of bars and I will be changing from the 40cm :)

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

I highly doubt you'd be able to measure a difference. Swiss side's test at 45kmh, nets less than 3 watts.

[@DPbike]

@@tommyfreckmann6857 Yes I agree I certainly can't verify the 3 watts difference! I only did one run for each tire. Whilst I did try to keep the runs as similar as possible and used my heart rate as the 'effort indicator' and the weather conditions were similar, winds gusting up to 25mph and from the same direction, many variables would almost certainly bias this 'test result'. The subjective feel of the better stability though, that I more sure of, well at least for my bike set up.

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

@@DPbike I appreciate your response and not getting offended like everybody seems to. It does take a lot of time to td thorough testing.

[@DPbike]

@@tommyfreckmann6857 Absolutely it does and I am far far from an expert and do not have the appropriate equipment to generate reliable data sets and am certainly not offended :). It is interesting that Peak Torque generate data for the Corimas that showed they were slower than other wheel sets, but not by much. I think my 'measured difference' was likely due to going to a narrower tire as well as the aero tread, or just variability in the data!

[@bartonbronstein8121]

you guys need photos with what you're discussing.

[@zipp2371]

The big error thats being made is that windtunnel fast doest translate into real world fast...

[@scottwatson7844]

Just finished the video guys and appreciate you don’t want to give too much away but how much of a difference are we talking about between the winning bike and the losing bike ?

[@MapdecVodcast]

between 0.000 and 0.008

[@MapdecVodcast]

"Factoring in that margin, the difference between our superbikes could be nothing at all, but it could be as much as 13.91 watts."

[@TheCharnwoodCyclist]

Real shame to put together a test like that and not include the TDF winning bike that often gets accused of not being aero and being slower.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Cycling News, who performed this test - tested the Colnago V4Rs two years ago. Their conclusion was that the bike “was best left to professionals”.

[@StopTheRot]

That’s such a ridiculous comment. I ride with a pro, regularly, and he has very little cycling experience. His first ever ride was with me - and I’d been riding for 8 years at the time. He’d happily accept that he isn’t that experienced or good on a bike: he just happens to have a monster of an engine.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@StopTheRot it’s for sure the rider and his/her ability to crank out sustained watts. Men buy bikes because they love mechanical and techie things.

[@Dali6266]

@@StopTheRotvery interesting to know 😮

[@christophertan3195]

Colnago didnt send their bike

[@bendardania]

All I can say is Americans are making some good bikes. ;)

[@pierrex3226]

I have an open mould built by long teng, that looks a LOT like a factor ostro. I can attest, it goes vroom vroom real good on the flat, with deep wheels, 36cm cockpit, and a pretty clean position on it. Also, it costs 400 dollars :D I'm faster on the flat than all of my friends who're all riding branded bikes, including a pretty Scott foil. Would be interesting to see a normalised test, where the wheels, cockpit and stack are constant. Even though, indeed, people buy full packages. But we know they shouldn't.

[@ozgurinsan]

Aero is one the biggest scams.

[@rayF4rio]

Definitely need a new hat!! 🤣

[@valmorell]

There are 2 markets here. Overpaid stockbrokers that would injure themselves if they picked up a screwdriver, and bike enthusiasts who understand what's going on here. I suspect the enthusiasts would ALWAYS buy the Look.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Ummmm. No.

[@floam11]

The excuse game. Hard to shill a bike that tested poorly, right? Cringe.

[@MapdecVodcast]

Do you not think I was fair?

[@nickyburnell]

What goes around comes around 🤣. 60's, 70's go to frame builder, get one made, or buy off the peg and add parts. Probably keep frame forever/upgrade parts. Now it's called, "custom build". I left cycling in 77, came back in 2013, I was amazed at the pre built bike compromise now adoped. Even if you buy a Alloy frame, or maybe a used carbon one, "custom build" is 100% the answer. Hey, go to the shop and watch the build, ask questions, you may well learn how to do stuff (now we live in a world of parents/mates not teaching kids basic mechanics). Good channel with content that hasn't resorted to Chinese knock off for hits. Best wishes

[@MapdecVodcast]

Thank you.

[@invisiblescout6335]

I always thought is, but glad to finally have proof the look aero is dogshit

[@Penalist]

One can in no way infer from this test that the 795 Blade RS is dogshit. You simply don't like this frame, and now found something that seems to proof that your preconception is true, quod non.

[@invisiblescout6335]

I don't like the frame because I think the design is bad

[@Penalist]

@@invisiblescout6335 In what way 'bad'?

[@invisiblescout6335]

Aerodynamically

[@DDai-qd8uk]

@@invisiblescout6335 precisely. dogshit frame.