New Study: The Value of Collagen Protein | Educational Video | Biolayne

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[@ronishternbach8904]

I had elbows joint pain that didn't go away for months, once started taking 20g of collagen peptides daily the pain completely gone in weeks and never came back. My skin also looks slighty better. It might be placebo effect but as long as the pain is gone and not coming back i will continue to take it.

[@Thecoachco]

I agree ,peptides are proven Russian technology ,they discovered them, they make peptide bioregulators for every organ ,harvested from 1 year old calves that are scientifically proven in Russia and other places in Europe to work,Skin is our bodies biggest organ ,if they work for Thyroid, Thymus and liver so will collagen. They have a product call Testoluten ,a testes peptide,it works Ive tried it,it firms you old man saggy sack to the firmness of a 20 year old ,the best for libido zero ,side effects,collagen is harvested from cow hide so it recognized by our dna of our skin

[@ryankittle3431]

Understanding protein digestion is the reason I was never a believer in collagen peptides. However, because of so many anecdotal reports, I decided I would try collagen peptides. My hair and nails grow faster. My skin complexion looks better. My joints feel ALOT better while lifting and post workout; noticeably better. Due to this, I’ve bought more bovine collagen peptides. I know, it’s my anecdote, but like I said, I “poo pooed” the idea of collagen for years because of my understanding of protein digestion. Now I continue to take 10-20g of collagen peptides a day.

[@presence5426]

Most people's understanding of protein digestion is flawed. Because bioactive peptides are not taught. They're a big reason why certain proteins have the effects they do. Collagen ingestion results in the absorption of small amounts of di- and tri-peptides, which are signalling molecules. They push fibroblasts and other cells to increase collagen synthesis. Among other effects.

[@jc74435]

This study only looks at the acute effect of a single administration of collagen in the MUSCLE connective tissue. It says nothing about the effect of chronic supplementation on joint and cartilage connective tissue.

[@andreinikiforov2671]

Layne, it's worth noting that recent studies suggest it's actually collagen peptides-small molecular weight collagen-that can boost collagen production in skin and connective tissue, not whole collagen. Might be worth revisiting the topic with this in mind!

[@gideon-af]

Link?

[@andreinikiforov2671]

@@gideon-af pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36516059/

[@betorezende7645]

this research not mension connective tissue

[@andreinikiforov2671]

@@betorezende7645 Skin improvements are a strong sign that this approach works for connective tissue (e.g. cartilage) as well. The overall cellular machinery and biochemical pathway for collagen production are basically identical in both. Layne would definitely be aware of this.

[@Olehenry]

Why is it worth noting? Because the 9 of the 12 “study” participants filled out a survey, selecting “improved skin elasticity” instead of “no noticeable improvement”? Also, just to help you look (edit: even more) knowledgeable, like the scientist & clinician Dave, the technical term is “stimulate”, not “boost” ... 😝

[@danfg7215]

Layne, please don't be that guy. The study has no mention of collagen peptides, only collagen, an important distiction because collagen is notoriously hard to digest (it's a proline rich protein like gluten and casein), and we don't know which collagen was provided. Some have as low as 27% absorption rate, while hydrolyzed collagen has 90%+. It would be interesting to see the difference with collagen peptides. Our gut can more easily absorb peptides, dipeptides and even tripeptides than longer chain aminoacids, so it's not like a protein's amino profile is the only metric of its usefulness, its digestibility should be considered. As you know, collagen is our body's most abundant protein (25-35% total protein), our joints are 85-90% collagen, our skin is 70-80% collagen, cartillage is 50%, bones are 30-40% and connective tissue is only 25-35%. Skeletal muscles, on the other hand, are barely 1% collagen, so any study that "debunks" myofibrillar protein synthesis is mostly wasting time. I mean, was there any metric of connective tissue damage during the exercise? Compared to whey protein, collagen is going to suck for muscle protein synthesis. On the other hand, whey protein has barely any glycine and proline compared to collagen (even if they can be obtained from its other aminoacids, it takes effort). So for the purpose of joints, skin, cartillage, bones and connective tissue health, collagen peptides still make a lot of sense.

[@HocDolliday]

He didn’t even mention glycine for collagen synthesis, it’s like he’s unaware of those studies. Also how glycine balances out the excess methathione in our diets

[@paulcox2447]

​@@HocDollidayhe isn't an expert on everything. I think he may be over-reaching here.

[@williamb4601]

You didn't read the study. They used "collagen protein hydrolysate (ATRO ProVita GmbH, Germany)" www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10487367/

[@Assassunn]

Alright, it's not collagen of hydrolysats. It's not AS digest, according to you up to 70% less than the hydrolysats (let's consider the smallest on market, 3000 Daltons). But did you pay attention to the dosage in the study? 30g. That big enough to reveal a significative difference in connective tissues recovery, considering the industry is claiming *considerable* benefits with a dosage of 5-10g.

[@CaptainCorobo]

Is there any evidence that supplement with collagen peptides actually do anything?

[@blackjack6406]

Collagen is absorbed as di and tri peptides, not only as individual amino acids. More substrate also shifts the chemical balance towards the end product and makes it easier to catalyze a chemical reaction.

[@presence5426]

Correct. At least your first sentence.

[@Danny-mg1hu]

Physionic responded to Dr. Layne Norton and so far the evidence of what he have so far is leaning more that Collagen Protein does work. Please watch his video.

[@ivandavila3951]

I took collagen alongside whey when after my surgeries. The incision closed fast and my muscle mass did not decrease as much during recovery

[@SelfAbridged]

Hi Layne, just FYI, your opening panel at 00:04 says "Does training time matter when fasting?" vs collagen protein.

[@toddupchurch1028]

Lame made a mistake?!?! Impossible!

[@PriusTurbo]

That is very funny. I missed that.

[@elliotbgardner]

I could see making a video on this. 😂

[@inkwell101]

You were immediately critical of collagen supplements when they came out? Dude, I remember seeing them at GNC in 1992...when you were 10 years old. Props to you being that knowledgeable so young!

[@dericktrenevsky3659]

He’s like Doogie Houser

[@musclemedicine_M.D]

Doogie was 16yo in real life on the show. I don’t think he’s referring to Weiders 1st rendition but rather when it became something worth noting. In college 25yrs ago I managed a GNC & collagen was not on the list of something we were aware of in terms of making sales like say a ‘hair skin nail complex’ or for joints it was shark cartilage + MSM/CC + vit C, or GNC joint formula. NO COLLAGEN powder. So 1992. Nope 👎

[@noobishtitan9714]

Oops

[@inkwell101]

@musclemedicine_M.D there was cherry flavored liquid collagen protein at GNC in 1992, maybe even earlier. Just because you don't remember seeing it among all the other products 25 years ago when 1992 is actually 6 years before you were a manager doesn't mean it didn't exist then. And it was right by all the other bodybuilding supplements.

[@slee2695]

Same guy used to sell BCAAS

[@Dan-ji5rx]

The study participant were young also study was very small, n=45. Do you think we would similar results in an older population where collagen synthesis is reduced. Also how is it we see studies which show improved joint pain and mobility and improved skin elasticity with collagen supplementation if supplementation does not impact collagen synthesis?

[@MoodMindMemory]

Layne, you may want to review the research by the folks at Gelita, showing that the molecular weights of specific collagen peptides increases muscle mass and strength in both young and old. They also have a nice study showing that their specific molecular weight peptides also induce multiple protein synthesis pathways when compared to whey protein.

[@presence5426]

@MoodMindMemory If you have some references, that'd be cool. Thanks.

[@hugtango]

I don't believe in their "bioactive peptides" story. They have like 5 or more specific peptides for bones, cartilage, tendons etc.... Nah I am not buying it. Basically they have only one product and they used it in different contexts to verify each hypothesis.

[@johnnyripple8972]

I make my own beef broth from grass raised beef bones. You can see a thick layer of cologne that rises to the top. Velvety texture, great flavor etc. I suggest making your own.

[@lilascharmante2712]

He seems like a nice and smart guy but I love that his followers use critical thinking and call him out in the comment section. He needs to look at proper studiea on collagen peptides if he wants to try and "debunk" anything. This feels like he really is lacking or ignoring a lot of the new research and misleading his listeners. 98k views, 600+ comments but only 24 likes. The numbers don't lie.

[@pathologicaldoubt]

Wow, one whole study

[@joec6405]

Yeah. I’ve been doing Collagen for about 3 years. I’m 55 and I don’t suffer from any joint pain at all. I’m a plumber by trade and I go to the gym on a regular basis. Since I’ve been using Collagen, that has been my experience and I’m sticking to it. You have a lot to say for a “one study” results….

[@joec6405]

@@comedyguy911 Lol! It takes a dipstick to know a dipstick!!!

[@tracygilbert5731]

Bleach shots does wonders for stained teeth. 😁

[@mariasagar9529]

Im 58 and I havent taken collagen in my life- no joint pain… Bodybuilder turned Powerlifter..

[@joec6405]

You may have not taken Collagen supplements but you have certainly consumed it through the food that you eat. Collagen is a small part of what I do to maintain optimum health. I feel it has been a benefit to me and will continue. Comparing it to bleach is inaccurate as it gets. Collagen when mixed with small amount of water, you can almost see turn into a jello like substance. I know the digestive process brakes it down, but your body will process a portion of it.

[@mattpen7966]

younger 31. but my anecdotal experience is the same, high impact sports are easier with hydrolyzed collagen, less strain prone and recover quicker from strains.

[@mike-fq4th]

Did the study account for vitamin c intake as well. I’ve heard through some sources that it’s needed for collagen synthesis/production so just wondering about that and your take on if that’s true or not

[@Individualati]

Both C and Mg

[@helios4425]

No it did not. one of three groups ingesting either 30 g whey protein (WHEY, n = 15), 30 g collagen protein (COLL, n = 15) or a non-caloric placebo (PLA, n = 15).

[@Individualati]

@@helios4425 Yep, and: "Muscle connective protein synthesis rates averaged 0.072 ± 0.019, 0.068 ± 0.017, and 0.058 ± 0.018 %/h in WHEY, COLL and PLA, respectively, with no significant differences between groups (P = 0.09)." Still, there's that non significant upward trend. With P = 0.09, maybe possibly perhaps with more subjects, it would get below 0.05. But whey is higher than collagen anyway. I found this one, with casein working: "Exercise Plus Presleep Protein Ingestion Increases Overnight Muscle Connective Tissue Protein Synthesis Rates in Healthy Older Men" 2021 p < .01

[@SullivanKelly85]

Excellent point

[@larsnystrom6698]

@helios4425 Collagen is hard to digest. That's why we always supplement with hydrolyzed collagen. But there's another factor too. Have you realized that a tendon injury need at least 7 times more time to mend than a muscle injury? They probably didn't take into account that collagen synthesis is that much slower than muscle protein synthesis. And they missed that their 30 g of collagen probably resulted in less than 10 g digested amino acids. They actually removed 2/3 of the protein, and expected something being built! oof course, not all those amino acids goes to building collagen. The way to do it is to eat your Whey as you probably do. And an additional 10% as hydrolized collagen. They you get both muscle, facia, and tendons!

[@Papashady88]

Outcome of the study often depends on who ordered them. All I know is I had cracking, painfull knees and after drinking 30grams of gelatine daily for over 2 years, my knees feel like I was a teenager again

[@lanceleefer8175]

The outcome of the study depends on the study design, not who ordered them.

[@Melesniannon]

This is a great example of the 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy. You have no idea what else happened during those two years that might've caused improvements. In fact, from your own story, it could've been the extra drinking rather than the gelatine in the drink for all you know.

[@Papashady88]

@@lanceleefer8175 nope

[@Papashady88]

@@Melesniannon i know my body better than most people know theirs. I got notes from 5 years of daily calories, diet and training. You have no idea but still comment on my body. Kekw

[@lanceleefer8175]

@@Papashady88 yep!

[@howlpendragon2134]

Hey Layne, And what about benefits for skin, hair and nails? Is it worth it or no?

[@angelauk4]

Really respect your scientific approach. I know the video was looking at collagen supplements for connective tissue - but as you mentioned early on, many women are taking collagen for hair, skin and nails - more of a beauty aspect. Any thoughts on that either way? Thx always.

[@donwinston]

Yeah, everyone I know puts collagen in their coffee to make their skin stay and look younger.

[@socrplar125]

Love to hear Layne's thoughts on this

[@stargazerbird]

Me too.

[@Ryan-wx1bi]

Yeah, this was the only use I had ever heard for collagen. This video was the first time I've heard of someone trying to use it for muscle.

[@Olehenry]

@@Ryan-wx1bi 😂 ... a lot for you to learn! Start by buying collagen supplements from me :-) you’re on the right track!

[@toddupchurch1028]

Once again Lame misses the mark. Collagen has not been positioned for muscle mass in the marketplace. There is plenty of supporting research for skin quality / health.

[@jamie5mauser]

You should define what “collagen protein” is. It doesn’t sound like you’re talking about natural foods high in collagen, this is just collagen supplements which is defined as what? Ground up animal hooves, correct?

[@Seeker_of_sense]

This guy clearly didn't do his homework. Hydrolyzed collagen is not a big protein and it's also not a single aminoacid but di- and tripeptides. Also, hydrolyzed collagen has been shown to improve skin collagen levels

[@GRPABT1]

Ive used collegen protein daily for about 2 years in conjunction with omega 3 and glucosamine supplementation. Ive found the omega 3 to be the most effective for joint health but noticed the collegen has done wonders for my skin. I'll continue using collegen for the skin benefits alone.

[@Olehenry]

Please, we’re a small and non-influential group here on KZbin. Instead, take your findings to Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health - they could really use your help, and together, you can change the world! If you can maybe mention anti-aging, in particular ... and don’t forget the mechanism: “stimulates”.

[@wenlambotomy6231]

@@Olehenrydont you forget to mention stimulation…. Oh no you havent you’ve mentioned it her 1000 times already 😂

[@leotravel85]

How can you know if it was the omega 3 or the collagen powder who did the effect if you were taking them together? Doesn't make any sense

[@shantanusapru]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@GRPABT1]

@@leotravel85 because I didn't start taking them together and over 2 years I've sometimes run out of some. I'm not selling anything and this is just anecdotal but yeah I'm happy with better skin.

[@mamasagbe]

What a way to promote your own supplement line. How about you post a video about benefits of collagen supplementation and wrinkles, joint healtk, skin and hair ?

[@simplybaker.]

My entirely anecdotal, and totally unscientific opinion is that for some people eating collagen protein promotes good digestive health, not necessarily that the protein itself is useful, or that the connective tissue growth is happening, but that eating collagen protein creates a state in the body which is good for other processes, the most common one I hear about as a trainer is improved sleep. And improved sleep is absolutely one of the most anabolic things you can do. Interested to see more research and data about this

[@Coromi1]

So should you take collagen before bed time?

[@simplybaker.]

@@Coromi1 maybe. I don't know but it's worth testing

[@Liisjak]

@@Coromi1 I red somewhere that about 2 hours prior to sleep would help improve it.

[@Coromi1]

@@Liisjak Thank you.

[@LastSifu]

What about collagen for skin elasticity though? If it tightens skin during weight loss, that makes it worth taking.

[@papluab]

What type of Collagen did the study use? Was it hydrolyzed? Collagen is high on Glycine which seems to be a contributing factor to the body's own Collagen synthesis, not sure if that has been established in any study though.

[@dtateiii]

I take collagen along with NAC. collagen is very high in glycine and when you combine glycine and NAC it boosts the levels of glutathione in the body. It’s basically my own version of the supplement Glynac except it’s not as expensive. I’m nearing the age of 50 so it’s important for me to keep my glutathione levels up.

[@KingRockets]

Why not just take a bioavailable form of glutathione?

[@dtateiii]

@@KingRocketsBecause glutathione supplements don’t absorb well. They’re a waste of money. And if you go with the liposomal versions those can be damaging to your health because your body needs to regulate how much of it goes to different areas of the body. The liposomal versions provide an unregulated dose to the body. It’s best to help your body create its own glutathione and glycine and NAC do just that.

[@gordonwho]

That’s what I am doing as well. I am 52 and lift regularly. I take creatine, collagen, protein powder, NAC, vitamin D, glucomannan, omega 3.

[@KingRockets]

@dtateiii I hear you, but not so sure about the whole unregulated levels with the Liposomal form. Don't think that's quite true.

[@dtateiii]

@@KingRockets Here is a comment from Mike Mutzel of of high intensity health talking about how the body regulates the synthesis of glutathione and how the studies show that taking a glutathione supplement directly is not wise. Just listen to the first minute to hear about glutathione regulation. He gets to the topic of regulation around 25 seconds in. I wanted to link a study but the ones that I found are way too heavy for the average person to grasp. Mike Mutzel explains it in a nutshell without all the scientific jargon. kzbin.info/www/bejne/joOamomDpJmhjcU

[@Burkhimself]

I use a scoop of collagen powder in my morning protein shake only for vanity reasons….makes my skin look a little better 💪🏼😅

[@Wehave2ears]

Hi Layne! Are you aware of any nutritional or pharmaceutical pathway that actually does improve connective tissue synthesis?

[@radicalgreek99]

Don't eat anything that has processed sugar high fructose corn syrup or any highly processed vegetable oils. Fasting is great for everything else. Following the Mediterranean diet or DASH will help you tremendously.

[@larsnystrom6698]

@Wehave2ears Layne is wrong about this. Or rather the research he is reading has git it wrong. Collagen actually works. But it's hard to digest, so it must be hydrolized collagen, or you have to eat every part of the animal. Vitamin C and copper are essential when building collagen. Otherwise they doesn't crosslink as they must to be strong.

[@helpfulcommenter]

MSM (aka Methysulfonylmethane) - it's a classic for a reason. Take it regularly and your joints will feel better after about a month or so. It is a bioavailable form of sulfur. Long story short what it does is make the cells in your ligaments, tendons, discs, and other connective tissue, more permeable (i.e. more able to flush cellular waste) - there's lots of studies on it, it's been used for years. (It is in most of the over the counter joint health supplements you can buy, but taking the direct powder in higher doses like in a smoothie is far more effective)

[@presence5426]

Yeah. Collagen peptides, lol. Look up Mishtri Khatri's review: "The effects of collagen peptide supplementation on body composition, collagen synthesis, and recovery from joint injury and exercise: a systematic review"

[@presence5426]

@@larsnystrom6698 Layne both misrepresented the paper, AND the paper is flawed. Collagen most certainly does work. Hydrolyzed collagen does seem to be more effective. However, unprocessed collagen may work too. Regardless of if it's "hard to digest." UC-II is an example.

[@Lyosha.]

Follow up question, is there anything one could take to stimulate connective tissue synthesis/ health ?

[@IvanGrozev]

for ligaments and tendons: very high volume low intensity training.

[@Seanonyoutube]

Not sure about synthesis but Glucosamine and Chondroitin as well Omega-3 have some evidence for supporting join health. As for exercise, i think plyometrics are most effective.

[@Olehenry]

No. Sorry, nothing. You could “stimulate” the areas w/ movement. But why “stimulate”? Where is this word coming from? Do you REALLY want to stimulate an injured area?

[@wenlambotomy6231]

@@Seanonyoutubegluc and chon are a salt. No scientific evidence it does anything for your joints other than placebo. Its all marketing BS to get your 💰

[@wenlambotomy6231]

@@Olehenryyou love the word stimulate dont you 😂

[@joshfranklin1894]

I just started taking collagen peptide about a week ago because I've been suffering from tendonitis in both elbows and forearm and triceps tendon for about a month and a half and after a week of taking collagen peptide along with vitamin C and isometric exercises I am finally starting to feel better and not in pain....so I don't know,...seems to work to me

[@TOMReefer]

Was the study Type 2 Collegen? Studies have shown type 2 as beneficial to connective tissue.

[@jxzcvk]

The screenshot of the study doesn't specify if they are using hydrolysed collagen. Seems to be an important detail that they've left out?

[@yowandbm]

Dr Rhonda Patrick mentioned some studies which showed collagen peptides are absorbed and end up in connective tissues of studied animals, I think mice. Peptides were traced somehow and they were built into joints etc. We don’t have such a study in humans unfortunately, it would be too invasive and non etical to intake radioactive collagen and then again have radioactive screening 🫨

[@WilliamTurnerViolins]

Perhaps placebo, but I've had significant improvements in mobility where I can finally do deep squats and hip rotations without snap, crackle and pop along with significant pain. PT for long period of time didn't succeed until I finally added the Collagen Peptides. In addition, I'd been struggling with NAFLD, taking NAC along side Collagen Peptides for the Glycine has greatly improved my liver markers over the last year. Even if Collagen Peptides do not increase muscle mass during strength/resistance training, I still find the other affects to be significant in my own life.

[@Nando_lifts2021]

ah man there was a V'shred ad right before your video. oh well lol

[@jc74435]

I’ve been taking 15g of bovine collagen peptides. I’m injury prone, and have been training for a marathon. I’m doing the most running volume I ever did, and no injuries, no knee pain, nothing. Its doing something for sure.

[@dericktrenevsky3659]

Placebo effect

[@nickmontanaro9638]

@@dericktrenevsky3659best brand name ever.

[@zwryy7622]

​@@danec1899"anekhdotal" 🤓

[@jc74435]

@@danec1899 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10058045/

[@thechad6218]

@@danec1899Or it’s possible that Layne is quoting one study in order to sell more of his protein powder. Follow the money

[@izzyso3820]

Whey protein and Collagen peptides and not meant to be taken separate to increase connective tissue. Together they increase connective tissue synthesis Thomas De Lauer explained it in one of his videos.

[@GerryRR]

Look up "Vitamin C-enriched gelatin supplementation before intermittent activity augments collagen synthesis" - thoughts?

[@scotchbarrel4429]

I have to search for your vids each time, this algorithm thing is a nuisance. Im almost tempted to just use the notification bell, which i despise 😂

[@fidorover]

Since we know Vitamin C stimulates collagen production, it would be interesting to see them do a study where they add 1000 mg or so of Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to the collagen protein to see if it may be the missing link to stimulate connective tissue synthesis. And then have another group take just the 1000 mg of Vitamin C *without* the collagen protein to see if it stimulates the same amount of connective tissue production on its own (perhaps rendering the collagen protein supplement worthless). And of course a placebo group as well.

[@TheFriendlyTroll]

I'd like to see that study done too.

[@Olehenry]

Got a problem w/ your premise! “Stimulates” can’t possibly be a mechanism; maybe you meant “correlates with”...

[@cliftonnobles5600]

I'm on both (1g C thrice daily) and have a hurt elbow - will report back lol

[@petergause1760]

@@OlehenryI'm confused by what you're saying. Are you saying there's no known mechanism for Vitamin C "stimulating" collagen synthesis so by definition its "associated with"? So even if they both increased, the correct wording would be "closely associated with"?

[@Olehenry]

@@petergause1760Since you're confused, put in some time learning the difference. Textbooks would be a better reference than me. A clue on where to start would be the old saying, "correlation does not imply causation".

[@DTsoumpas]

Thanks for the science! No click bait

[@phxx8534]

I was skeptical of collagen but started taking it for skin, nail, and hair health to see if there was any difference. It has dramatically improved all three. Like with creatine, repetition over time is the key. For the benefits and cost, throwing 10g a day into a shake is easy and well worth it.

[@FerintoshFarmsPhotography]

Any proteins will do that

[@phxx8534]

Already was taking whey pre and post, only change was adding collagen. N=1 but I noticed a difference without having to strain to find one, similar to creatine. @@FerintoshFarmsPhotography

[@cyberfunk3793]

@@FerintoshFarmsPhotography Nope. I had dry flaky skin around my nose/eyes for periods of time for multiple years. I thought I was allergic to some food but could never figure it out. Now it has been totally gone for many weeks and skin is totally normal. Only things I think I have added to diet was collagen, vitamin-a and taurine. I bet it's either the collagen or vitamin-a that did the trick, or both. I have taken other proteins occasionally for years, whey, hemp etc. and none of them ever improved my skin.

[@justinw1765]

@@cyberfunk3793 There is a theory in the alternative health circles that the high glycine in collagen helps specifically to rebuild the gut lining, helping to correct leaky gut syndrome, which ultimately helps with skin issues. There are other things that can help as well, such as slippery elm bark, Deglycyrrhizinated licorice, omega 3 fats, fasting, etc

[@Olehenry]

@phxx8534 Hmmm, “skeptical” can’t be the right word. I believe “gullible” is what you meant. Now that I’ve got your attention, what else can I interest you in? For the benefits (none) and cost (nickels and dimes only!), I can mix you up a nice collagen-stimulating cocktail!

[@TommySetzer]

I feel like the focus on leucine ignores the value of other aminos, and it’s also implied that no other protein will be consumed the entire day. Do you feel like stirring collagen in your coffee is the only protein that will be consumed all day long?

[@larsmaas5302]

Hi Layne, the background in the intro does not match the videos content

[@pi3ni0]

Nice work! Is there an effect of collagen on the skin?

[@presence5426]

Yes. There are at least 5 systematic reviews published that prove it. Common effects seen are increased hydration, fewer wrinkles, and increased elasticity.

[@TheePrettyGirlSwag]

I purchased collagen on a whim at the store because I was waiting on my restock of my plant based skin hair and nails powdered greens. This was before I even know collagen was a thing here on KZbin. I took it as directed and about a week or 2 in the knee pain that bothered me for 9 months was gone. I went to my stylist and she noticed immediately my hair was denser. That’s all I know. I know you want to sell that processed whey of yours but collagen peptides for the win buddy.

[@burner00019]

What about for skin health? I've been taking 11g per day and it's done a bit to firm up my skin quite a bit

[@blainebowling3303]

I confess I’ve been using collagen protein powders for a couple of years now out of desperation. All my gains in the gym are held back by joint pain and tendinitis. I’m still struggling with all the same symptoms. I guess I’ll redirect that money towards a physical therapist that actually knows something about sports… The doctor makes good sense.

[@NofirstnameNolastname]

I hear ya. Still never took it much because I knew it wouldn't help but I'm in the same boat.

[@toddupchurch1028]

Lame also suffers w/ joint pain. He has said as much on many podcasts and pretty much says just push through it (not verbatim). This is inexcusable for anyone really suffering.

[@Seanonyoutube]

Weren’t there some studies that showed improvements for skin health with collagen peptide supplementation?

[@IanRushtonMusic]

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10102402/

[@nippalalor9565]

so what supplements do you recommend for us aging folks with joint and connective tissue issues?

[@Individualati]

Casein works here, post exercise. "Exercise Plus Presleep Protein Ingestion Increases Overnight Muscle Connective Tissue Protein Synthesis Rates in Healthy Older Men" 2021

[@loganwolv3393]

There is a bit of evidence for collagen protein helping with skin and perhaps hair too since skin seems to be made out of both connective tissue and epithelial tissue, and hair all or mostly connective tissue, so the question is does collagen protein increase epithelial tissue synthesis?

[@Olehenry]

Finally, the question. But I’m confused. Why write “helps with” instead of “stimulates”?

[@loganwolv3393]

@@Olehenry Not really used to this kind of scientific terms i guess :)

[@cheliospanama9786]

For the BioLayne 🤩🥰💪🫶😁😎👌🥸🤓🥳🫡

[@StevenBrener]

If you've already stocked up on collagen, would adding it to Whey protein have any additive benefits since the Whey has the leucine?

[@TODOMATIO]

Where's the link to the study?? Only type 2 helps connective tissue not others

[@JohnSmith-wh7mk]

I get the argument about protein being broken down and the body building its own proteins but supposedly the idea is that certain amino acids tend to be quite low in a lot of protein sources (relative to total protein content) while being found in large amounts in collagen, such as glycine and proline. If you are eating very large amounts of protein, in particular animal protein (like g/lb of BW which is actually more than what you need to maximize protein synthesis), then collagen probably wouldn't make a difference. Also, we need to exercise in order to stimulate the production of collagen in a given joint and then it's just a question of whether the body has the building blocks it needs. This is kind of similar to the BCAA situation - if you are getting low amounts of them from your diet supplementation makes a difference but otherwise it doesn't

[@yanwain9454]

DOC please do a video on the dangers of Raw Fruitarian diets for children. There are children who are being forced to participate in this diet and no doctor seems to be willing to speak out against it.

[@yo25999]

He literarlly did a video on this last week. It was about that woman who died because she only ate fruit.

[@Seanonyoutube]

@@yo25999that’s not why she died. She died because she had an eating disorder. It’s possible to live off only fruit-if you actually eat enough fruit. Is it optimal for health? No. But you won’t die within a few years like she did.

[@yanwain9454]

@@yo25999 lol well.....as you can see by the other reply you got....some folks are in need of more clarifcation

[@yo25999]

@@yanwain9454 more warnings can't hurt I gues.

[@gideon-af]

So how to I strengthen my tendons

[@GerryRR]

Layne... What does the "hydrolysed" part of "hydrolyzed collagen" mean? 🤔

[@platosbeard3476]

While I don't expect collagen supps to work, I'm curious if the stimulus was sufficient. For instance, were subjects doing something like kneesovertoesguy's knee program? Was it done over long enough period to see results?

[@NofirstnameNolastname]

I really hoped this video said it would work. I don't take it but I could really use something that helps with my joints and tendons. It really holds me back and nothing I do works. I just develop problems literally everywhere and I'm training less hard or heavy than even the women and children at my gym. And ive had physical therapy for like 15 years straight now and every godamn test done on me and I know how to train and eat and it still doesn't matter. And I'm only 37 and been dealing with this since I was like 20.

[@Simon-talks]

"no pain, no gain....hmmm mm yeah mmm hmmm.." -Beavis

[@xarix50]

Just a random tip. I heard that people can get join pain due to usage of aromatase inhibitors. In short low estrogen can equal joint pain. Maybe get it checked.

[@kwhuisman]

Warm up like crazy, does light weight and more reps hurt? If not do more of those. Maybe Glucosamine will help a little.

[@NofirstnameNolastname]

@@kwhuisman I already do a lot of that yeah but I also have to switch to higher weights some times but that's usually when it gets worse again and unfortunately glucosamine is another one of those things that don't really do anything.

[@rescavone6690]

For the logarithm and all the great content

[@Rawngus]

the collagen amino acid equivalent to luecine is hydroxyproline which is abundant in collagen more than any other source.

[@abc-df1vg]

Comment for Layne. Thanks for the info.

[@Chrome47]

What if I take a bath in my collagen protein powder? /s

[@tracycalvillo3215]

Can you please provide feedback on whey vs egg white protein supplement?

[@tatianaa.3694]

However the study does not specify if thy use collagen or collagen peptides 🤔

[@JSPnolifer]

For Layne!

[@Snerdles]

If any time you eat a protein it effectively gets unravelled and broken down in to the amino acids then why does creatine work? How is this different than collagen?

[@jonathandawe7900]

Creatine is not an amino acid, so not relevant in this context.

[@Snerdles]

@@jonathandawe7900 No one said it was.

[@jonathandawe7900]

@@Snerdles so why are you asking about creatine when you are talking in the context of protein getting broken down in to amino acids. It makes no sense?

[@Snerdles]

@@jonathandawe7900 because creatine is just a protein made up of methionine, glycine, and arginine.

[@klonewavverr2909]

What is recommended for people who have intolerance to whey and soy products?

[@burnhamsghost8044]

“High glycine concentration increases collagen synthesis by articular chondrocytes in vitro: acute glycine deficiency could be an important cause of osteoarthritis”

[@burtnation1357]

What about for skin health theres seems to be good study’s for tht

[@BenGoodbrand]

I've searched for some good studies on this when trying to discuss with clients but couldn't find any. Can you link one please?

[@Olehenry]

It’s all on KZbin. Search “stimulating” and you’ll find loads of truth.

[@Crepitom]

Only the ones that are industry sponsored are positive. Although Layne does not care about that, to most that’s quit telling.

[@BenGoodbrand]

@@Crepitom exactly what I've found

[@GRPABT1]

I started taking collagen protein daily about 2 years ago for joint pain. I found it helped very minor amounts with joint pain (less so than omega 3 pills) but my skin has been noticeably better for it. I'll continue to use it despite this study purely for the skin benefits.

[@carterrennerfeldt1607]

what about the studies that have shown skin benefits??

[@joshuaj.aguero2225]

You said the proteins are broken down into di- and tripeptides but then went on in the same breath to say that that means the body only sees individual amino acids. That is unsound logic, you haven’t established the breakdown of the peptides into individual amino acids in your argument. You assumed it and moved on. Now I’ve seen other videos speak about studies (I haven’t looked at them myself) that say that peptides can and do survive in the gut and are absorbed into the bloodstream, specifically in regard to collagen peptides. So is the body absorbing the collagen peptides after it is denatured? Or is it always and only broken down into individual amino acids? If peptides are absorbed, what’s the prevalence of that occurring over complete denaturation? Furthermore could this detail be related to the lack of effectiveness of supplementing pure leucine vs leucine-rich foods? Maybe it needs to be in peptide form to stimulate the anabolic response in the muscles.

[@pro-00001]

The argument made by various collagen promoters is that unlike most dietary proteins, certain forms of collagen are absorbed intact by the small intestine. The fibrous structure of collagen supposedly makes it resistant to the denaturing conditions of the stomach, contasting with most enzymes (globular proteins). This was the only plausible point that the dermatologists and other collagen promoters were raising when I was trying to understand why people insist that collagen supplements do anything special despite the obvious issue of denaturation/proteolysis that you explained.

[@koa.diesel]

what about for skin and hair nails? collagen help with any of those??

[@Cooowop]

Ty for presenting this info

[@solidstream13]

Thoughts on Plant based protein supplements?

[@wenlambotomy6231]

Just eat a steak and be done with it. Nature made animals out of food for good reason.

[@alainvanrijn]

Anyone who knows the answer to this: are collagen peptides and collagen hydrolisate supplements te same thing? There are enormous price differences between brands

[@shiva_kondapalli]

What food or supplement helps connective tissue synthesis?

[@alirezahosseinmardi]

What should we eat instead of Collagen for connective tissue health?

[@MissyBelleSYD]

Besides taking a blend of amino acids, hydrolyzed collagen peptides is the only protein powder my IBS body tolerates. Literally every other type, form, derivative, causes very unpleasant side effects. So I’m hopeful it’s doing something, otherwise it’s just very tasty added to Greek yoghurt. 😋

[@sammcconkey8768]

Any benefits for skin?

[@ericb3633]

U need to do a video on what to take for connective tissues… if it exist

[@berryvolcano3787]

Collagen peptides have strong evidence for anti-aging at this point, particularly with collagen retention and growth in the deep layers of the skin. If you want to look good then it's worth taking even if there isn't a muscle building benefit.

[@Individualati]

"Exercise Plus Presleep Protein Ingestion Increases Overnight Muscle Connective Tissue Protein Synthesis Rates in Healthy Older Men" 2021 p < .01 So, nothing is simple. Does subject age matter? Casein is superior? Prbly take a lot of reading to wade through everything.

[@miguelcrupovich]

1st time not commenting for Al but fot Layne 😂

[@rishidhingra319]

thanks for the video! but what about the efficacy of collagen for skin and hair health?

[@HocDolliday]

no mention here about glycine for collagen synthesis????

[@jobegerlach87]

Can someone please post a link to the study

[@davidduff8433]

What are your thoughts on beef and egg white protein powder?

[@Ryan_DeWitt]

Isn't that in reality what the overwhelming majority of beef protein isolate on the market are in reality just beef collagen protein going by a different name?

[@vinceandrich4603]

Yes. Another anecdote is that athletes that eat a lot of red meat 🥩 (high in hydroxyproline and proline) tend to report greater strength gains - which of course strong connective tissue is a major factor

[@adamsc1181]

What about skin health ?

[@Eskoteric]

What about collagen peptides?

[@deanshafi3697]

What supplements would you recommend for tendon recovery?

[@chrisr.2410]

Vitamin C I dealt with tendonitis in both elbows for over a year. Started taking 1g vitamin C daily and within a month it was 90%+ better

[@LBJedi]

Do lean sources of protein like chicken have the same muscle-protein synthesis response as whey?

[@domrozasmurfexcel8405]

What works for joints then🤔

[@Olehenry]

You gotta really stimulate them ...

[@wenlambotomy6231]

@@OlehenryYoure really stimulating me!!

[@calvinwesthovens3509]

Hey Layne, love your videos. Thankyou! Also. Can I ask what mic you use for your videos??

[@bernardojunqueira2392]

I´d love to see a video about collagen products with bioactive peptides (such as Verisol) if they do actually make a difference or if it´s just like regular collagen. I´ve always shared the view of ´´Protein is protein: at the end they will all get absorbed as free AAs or di/tripeptides (if I´m not mistaken)´´. But then I saw so many ppl saying that if you ingest these bioactive peptides, the body will preferentially utilize them to build connective tissue... and I got quite convinced about that, changing my previous view on collagen supplements. Now I´m on the fence about this. Therefore, would be nice to know if these ´´special collagen´´ products do make a difference when we aim at hair, skin, nails; connective tissue in general (not only joints but connective tissue all over the body). Thanks.

[@presence5426]

Every protein can yield "bioactive peptides." Even plant protein. A peptide is just a fragment of the original whole protein. Any whole protein eaten is going to get chemically chopped up into peptides of various lengths: anywhere from 2 amino acids long, to 100 or more. The point of "hydrolyzed collagen protein/peptides", which is what Verisol is, is that the whole collagen has been pre-broken down for you by acid or enzymes in a factory. So, your digestive system is getting a huge dose of various peptides, which can be further broken down & absorbed more efficiently (we're talking di- and tri-peptides mostly). Also lots of amino acids.

[@muneebow]

So what DOES increase conmective tissue synthesis?